Agatha All Along and The Penguin: How Two Spinoffs Enhance Their Universes!

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>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me,

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as always, is our mister producer, will polk. How are you doing tonight,

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will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?

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>> Sarah : I'm good. I mean, September 24,

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2024.

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>> Will: Yes, yes, we. Yes, we

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have back with, like, two

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concurrent comic book shows going, which has

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been a while since we've had to, like, jug, you know,

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talk about two shows at once. I guess it's been since the summer.

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>> Sarah : like. Yeah, I mean,

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we were juggling through the end of, technically,

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through the end of July.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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>> Sarah : I guess I'll start too long, but, yeah,

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yeah, it's definitely been a while since we've really been

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in this genre.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I know. We had Supacell, which,

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folks, you check that out. We finished, that last

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week. And, yeah, we're moving now to Agatha and,

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the penguin.

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>> Sarah : The penguin, yeah, but before that,

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so you just committed a

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sin where we had the pre show, and you did not ask me if I've

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watched this trailer. And as soon as I opened

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up the dock, I told

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myself, shit, I was supposed to watch that this

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morning. I didn't.

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>> Will: Okay. Yeah, well, it's fine. It's

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fine.

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>> Sarah : I did watch the May

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2025. So in my defense,

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between now and then, I will have

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eventually watched one of the Thunderbolts

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trailers. I'm sure it's great. I'm sure it

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gives away the whole movie, but it's also

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out enough where. Yeah,

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go ahead.

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>> Will: Yeah, actually, it didn't give away the movie, which was a pleasant

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surprise. yeah,

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I mean, this, Yeah, the Thunderbolts trailer did drop

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yesterday morning. I didn't. I did not know it was coming,

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but it did. And, it's funny

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hearing all our YouTube reactors complaining, about

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how Marvel was, like, putting copyright blocks on

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reaction videos. But, so I'm gonna be very

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careful and not put anything in here that will get

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our content blocked by. By Marvel. But,

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yeah, it was. It was. It was a good trailer, I guess. I know

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you haven't watched it. you know, it does have the thunderbolts,

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asterisks, you know, have Yelena, all the,

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Sergey. All the characters are showing up Bucky's

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back. we do learn that bucky, like, watches his,

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arm and the dishwasher, which was, like,

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when I did see that part in the trailer, I was like, oh,

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okay. Question answered. But,

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yeah, you know, it really. It just sort of

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did a job of just setting up our

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characters and reintroducing all the

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various, people that. That,

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Valentina has, been recruiting throughout, some of

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the previous iteration Marvel movies and tv

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shows and, you know, sort

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of sets that up and.

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Yeah. I thought actually, I

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did have to say that when I watched

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the trailer, I was just like, okay, I feel

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this. You know, I had good. I had good. I

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had good vibes from it. as far as

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feeling like Marvel's definitely doing the course

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correction thing. And, and then, of course, with the whole, you

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know, the whole title of thunderbolts, asterisks, you know, I guess there's

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a lot of theories following out there already going on

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whether or not it's the dark Avengers or Secret Avengers is what

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that asterisk means. But, we'll love to hear from

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our listeners. Your thoughts are

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on. On the asterisks with the, thunderbolts title. But,

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and, yeah, this is coming next May.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, but just. Just theory

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spiral, guys. We don't want to write the movie

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before we've Scene the movie. Only then to get

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disappointed by what they actually do in the movie.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah,

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I just.

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>> Sarah : I caution people these days because we've Scene

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what has happened as this

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genre and especially as both DC and Marvel

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has rose to

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popularity. And it's just like

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a lot of people have taken

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the joy out of theory

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spiraling because then you're just

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witnessing and a part of rewriting

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a story that you haven't even already Scene.

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>> Will: Yeah, you have your head. Yeah, it's like, you have your head

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canon and your head cannon doesn't play out because Mephisto

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didn't show up, speaking of Agatha. And then

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you're, like, pissed off because your head cannon didn't come

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into reality, so that's not

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going to happen.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. and then

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in other news, Kyle Chandler from Friday night

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lights is in talks to play. Oh,

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I thought he was casted.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so, yeah, so this is.

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>> Sarah : Cast to play how? How? Jordan and Lantern

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series.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, DC news. yeah,

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so Josh Brolin, of course, was in talks earlier, and then he.

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He declined to the role.

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But, yeah, depending on what source you looked at. I mean, the

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Hollywood Reporter wrote it. Like, he's been cast, but

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I know variety and deadline,

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at least initially, still had capstan

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in terms of talks in their reporting

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yesterday, but, but, yeah, Kyle

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Chandler, who many people definitely will remember him

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from Friday, night lights, has been cast as

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Hal Jordan and, in the new Lantern series.

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And, we're still looking for our new Jon

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Stewart. But, we

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do have Hal. And, Yeah, I didn't

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realize this until yesterday, actually, when I was reading

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about Cal Chandler being cast, that, Chris

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Mundy, who was the showrunner for Ozark, is actually one of the

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showrunners for this show. I mean, I knew Damon Lindelof and Tom

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King were a part of the show, but, I did. I did

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not know that the, create one of the creator creative

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teams behind those arc was a part of it until now.

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>> Sarah : Did you, watch Friday Night lights?

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>> Will: I watched some episodes, yeah. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : You mean some episodes. I

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wasn't like Michael

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B. Jordan era.

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>> Will: Oh, gosh. I mean, I may watch maybe

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three or four episodes, Max.

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>> Sarah : Oh, my God.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Okay.

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>> Will: I mean, I wasn't like. It wasn't like my. I wasn't like a big watcher

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of it, but I did. But what I did

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watch of. Of it. And what I do know of Cal

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Chandler as an actor, I mean, I think this is a great choice for Hal Jordan.

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>> Sarah : Oh, yeah. Yeah. As soon as I saw it, I was like, I

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accept. but,

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because I. I fell

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off right around the

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time when clearly all of the kids had

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grown up. They did some

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recasting and some stuff, and then

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I kind of circled back around just to watch, like,

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the final few episodes.

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so I'm all too

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familiar with Kyle Chandler. and

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like I said, I think this is

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pretty good casting for

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what has been. I've heard

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about what the. They're trying to do with

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this. and. And, yeah, yeah. So

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it's. It's good news. No, because I know

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how badly will wants to talk the penguin, so.

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>> Will: No, let's start with. Let's start with Agatha. Let's state, you know, we had it. We had it.

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We had Marvel, DC. So now let's go back to Marvel.

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Well, we had Marvel. We had marvel news first with thunderbolts. Then

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we had DC News with the lanterns. And now let's

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go back to Marvel.

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>> Sarah : So Agatha along started. What did you think about the first

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step?

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>> Will: I like that. I liked it. I mean, it was, I did not

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know what to really expect with this

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show. And, so when it started out and

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I saw where they were going, again with a very similar

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vibe that they. And theme that they

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went with, with, wandaVision, you know, just picking

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up the genre motif, in

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this case, it was, you know, I guess a sort of play on

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the

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>> Sarah : Mayor,

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>> Will: Of Eastwick, or, the one that, Oh, gosh,

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what's. What's her name? blanket on actress's name.

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But. But I just wanted to say it's an HBO show,

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but, I saw where they were, where they were going with that and,

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you know, with the true crime kind of theme.

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And, yeah, it was, I was like, okay, you know, I was

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sort of getting me back into this world, getting

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familiar with Agnes, as she was known, you know,

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in Wandavision before she was

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revealed. And, yeah, you know, I thought the

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first episode, what did, what it needed to do, which

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was. And actually both episodes, both one and two were

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really. It was smart of them to release them together because they

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really were a lot of setup.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. Speaking about true crime, I

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did start to watch the

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monsters. M. Yeah,

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the, the, Ryan Murphy show

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about Mendoz brothers.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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>> Sarah : I'm pretty sure it's called. No, it's just monsters.

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It's not the monsters, it's just monsters.

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Ryan, correct me if I'm wrong, Ryan Murphy was also

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somewhat behind the people versus OJ. Right?

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>> Will: Yeah, he was. People Doctor OJ,

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the people. Andrew Kurnanen. Yeah, all those.

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Yeah, yeah.

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>> Sarah : He's never going

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to recapture the

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people versus OJ.

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I'm sorry. I mean, I think I

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haven't watched it, but we've already talked about this.

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I know people really, quote

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unquote, however you want to put it, enjoyed

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Dahmer. But I just,

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I. This,

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I just don't think it's ever going to be

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like that was so,

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firing on all cylinders. And there was so much

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nuance and there were so many different characters and angles at

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play, that I can

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see remnants of it, but it's

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a different story. And

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it just. That

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style and the way

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they did the people versus OJ worked

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because of the story itself,

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where I think sometimes they're trying to

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shove that style into a story where

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it's like, well, part of it works and then part of it doesn't.

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Because, I mean,

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I don't really. This,

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When did the murders occurred? Was it

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Inez or was it in the eighties?

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>> Will: I want to say it was like the. The Menendez brothers. I want

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to say it was like the late eighties, early

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nineties.

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>> Sarah : Okay, that to me, for

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some reason, at first I read

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97 and I was like, okay,

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so I was alive. But now we've confirmed I wasn't

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really alive during that time.

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So that's why I've never really heard about

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this story. and that

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being said, yeah, they.

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>> Will: Were convicted in 1996.

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>> Sarah : Okay.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : So it was a long. And I. And I.

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And I get why. I guess I don't want to linger too much on

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this, but where I was going with it

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00:11:27.152 --> 00:11:29.920
is I don't. I don't

251
00:11:29.976 --> 00:11:32.336
know how much is true and how much is

252
00:11:32.424 --> 00:11:35.092
disbelief. I just.

253
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I'm at episode five, and

254
00:11:38.888 --> 00:11:41.488
I've already Scene and heard people,

255
00:11:41.640 --> 00:11:44.408
like, insinuate some stuff that happens in

256
00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:47.152
episode five. I'm really contemplating skipping

257
00:11:47.192 --> 00:11:49.670
it, because I've already been through episode

258
00:11:49.726 --> 00:11:52.398
four, and they were just talking

259
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about the potential or

260
00:11:56.142 --> 00:11:58.362
the claims of the

261
00:11:59.302 --> 00:12:01.682
child sexual abuse.

262
00:12:02.112 --> 00:12:05.000
And, like, I'm like, okay,

263
00:12:05.176 --> 00:12:07.832
can it. If it's gonna get more graphic,

264
00:12:07.952 --> 00:12:10.944
then I'm not here for this. I can't.

265
00:12:11.088 --> 00:12:13.904
I can't. And I don't know. I

266
00:12:13.928 --> 00:12:15.892
just. Ryan Murphy.

267
00:12:16.912 --> 00:12:19.176
I don't know. It's so much style

268
00:12:19.344 --> 00:12:22.200
that I'm missing the substance,

269
00:12:22.296 --> 00:12:25.208
but. Yeah, but

270
00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:28.012
the actors are doing a good job.

271
00:12:28.552 --> 00:12:31.302
overall, I just. I think the way

272
00:12:31.342 --> 00:12:33.272
they're telling this, it's,

273
00:12:34.172 --> 00:12:37.094
It's not as riveting as, the people

274
00:12:37.158 --> 00:12:38.206
versus OJ.

275
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>> Will: So. Yeah, yeah, I want to check that one out. Also want

276
00:12:41.246 --> 00:12:43.804
to check out the, I know they have the, Aaron

277
00:12:43.828 --> 00:12:46.804
Hernandez story. believe that one's on FX, if I

278
00:12:46.828 --> 00:12:47.284
recall.

279
00:12:47.388 --> 00:12:48.072
>> Sarah : Yeah,

280
00:12:50.852 --> 00:12:53.604
anytime a show is on FX, I'm like, thank God it's on

281
00:12:53.628 --> 00:12:56.552
Hulu. Yeah.

282
00:12:56.572 --> 00:12:59.304
Yeah, I've been. I keep seeing things because I

283
00:12:59.328 --> 00:13:02.168
also feel. I'm also pretty sure Netflix released

284
00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:04.968
a documentary same time as that. And I'm

285
00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.592
like, well, Jason Scott

286
00:13:07.632 --> 00:13:10.080
Peterson all over again, where you got two dueling

287
00:13:10.176 --> 00:13:11.824
documentaries. What the heck?

288
00:13:11.928 --> 00:13:14.696
>> Will: Yeah, I mean, we got all these true crime things going right now.

289
00:13:14.864 --> 00:13:17.472
>> Sarah : Yeah, the viewer. I mean, for.

290
00:13:17.592 --> 00:13:20.584
For the last decade or so, we've Scene a high

291
00:13:20.648 --> 00:13:23.000
rise and people really

292
00:13:23.056 --> 00:13:26.040
enjoying true crime. So,

293
00:13:26.216 --> 00:13:29.184
I mean, to circle back to Agatha, I

294
00:13:29.208 --> 00:13:31.552
agree with you. I think that was a

295
00:13:31.592 --> 00:13:34.160
smart device to use,

296
00:13:34.256 --> 00:13:37.114
because, it's not too jarring for

297
00:13:37.138 --> 00:13:39.746
the viewer, considering if you

298
00:13:39.914 --> 00:13:42.842
really make the connection. Okay, this is a spin off

299
00:13:42.882 --> 00:13:45.322
of WandaVision. Remember

300
00:13:45.402 --> 00:13:48.324
that? But I will admit,

301
00:13:48.468 --> 00:13:51.116
I don't know what I was thinking during the

302
00:13:51.164 --> 00:13:54.012
first 20 minutes of this, but

303
00:13:54.092 --> 00:13:57.012
I was just like, I

304
00:13:57.052 --> 00:13:59.112
could not really remember

305
00:13:59.532 --> 00:14:02.350
exactly what happened to Agatha. at the end of

306
00:14:02.382 --> 00:14:05.350
WandaVision sense,

307
00:14:05.462 --> 00:14:08.054
like, there was this. I was like, well, I know

308
00:14:08.134 --> 00:14:10.942
Wanda eventually puts everything

309
00:14:11.038 --> 00:14:13.846
back in normal, but why

310
00:14:13.910 --> 00:14:16.822
are we still doing this tv motif?

311
00:14:16.918 --> 00:14:19.718
I mean, she. And for some reason, it didn't

312
00:14:19.766 --> 00:14:22.758
really connect to me. Like, I'm like, oh, wait. She lost

313
00:14:22.798 --> 00:14:25.326
her powers. She got

314
00:14:25.382 --> 00:14:27.978
trapped. It took me a while.

315
00:14:28.678 --> 00:14:31.526
I wouldn't say the whole first episode. No. Probably a

316
00:14:31.542 --> 00:14:33.974
good 2020 minutes to

317
00:14:34.006 --> 00:14:34.778
realize,

318
00:14:37.198 --> 00:14:38.338
>> Will: I was there too.

319
00:14:39.958 --> 00:14:42.918
I had that same feeling. I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, that's right.

320
00:14:42.958 --> 00:14:45.630
She won. You know, Wanda did take her

321
00:14:45.654 --> 00:14:48.126
powers away. And the, you know, because I guess the thing about the end of

322
00:14:48.142 --> 00:14:49.942
WandaVision, you know,

323
00:14:50.110 --> 00:14:53.054
it's everything leading up to that finale

324
00:14:53.126 --> 00:14:55.966
was just so, you know, it really

325
00:14:56.022 --> 00:14:58.854
built up to such a great story. And then the finale was

326
00:14:58.886 --> 00:15:01.606
your typical marvel, you

327
00:15:01.622 --> 00:15:04.130
know, green screen fighting in the

328
00:15:04.154 --> 00:15:07.130
sky, but, you know, and stuff. So I

329
00:15:07.154 --> 00:15:09.478
had forgotten that, you know, I remember she had.

330
00:15:10.618 --> 00:15:13.242
So. Yeah, like. Like you. It's like, oh, yeah, that's right. Moana

331
00:15:13.290 --> 00:15:16.194
did cast spell, take her powers away, and

332
00:15:16.226 --> 00:15:18.748
then. But, But beyond that, I did not

333
00:15:19.288 --> 00:15:20.028
know.

334
00:15:20.608 --> 00:15:22.344
>> Sarah : Entrapped her. In Westview.

335
00:15:22.376 --> 00:15:23.528
>> Will: Yeah. In Westview.

336
00:15:23.568 --> 00:15:26.424
>> Sarah : Yeah. Spell. To trap her and make

337
00:15:26.456 --> 00:15:28.446
her, quote unquote, forget.

338
00:15:28.632 --> 00:15:29.358
>> Will: Right.

339
00:15:29.498 --> 00:15:32.312
>> Sarah : and we're immediately after being

340
00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:33.752
introduced to Audrey

341
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.698
Plaza's, character.

342
00:15:37.038 --> 00:15:39.586
We are, starting to see the cracks

343
00:15:39.642 --> 00:15:42.398
now. Okay,

344
00:15:42.978 --> 00:15:45.758
I don't. My one gripe

345
00:15:46.498 --> 00:15:49.198
is the typical,

346
00:15:50.018 --> 00:15:52.698
I'm about to kill you. Oh,

347
00:15:52.738 --> 00:15:55.410
wait, let me give you time to talk yourself out of

348
00:15:55.434 --> 00:15:57.958
it, and then we're gonna have a

349
00:15:57.998 --> 00:16:00.942
season. It's just,

350
00:16:01.110 --> 00:16:02.818
I really didn't like that.

351
00:16:03.888 --> 00:16:06.816
also, I was thinking pretty much the whole

352
00:16:06.872 --> 00:16:09.824
time that just

353
00:16:09.896 --> 00:16:12.728
questioning. Questioning, more

354
00:16:12.768 --> 00:16:15.434
or less. Audrey Palazzo's character is agent

355
00:16:15.466 --> 00:16:18.436
Vidal, or just Vidal, because she's a

356
00:16:18.452 --> 00:16:20.408
witch of some sort,

357
00:16:20.758 --> 00:16:23.206
and she clearly has a

358
00:16:23.222 --> 00:16:26.150
vendetta against Agatha and wants

359
00:16:26.174 --> 00:16:28.862
to kill her, only to be talked out of it

360
00:16:28.910 --> 00:16:31.526
because. And Agatha makes a strong

361
00:16:31.582 --> 00:16:34.278
point, like, it's not just killing me. It's

362
00:16:34.318 --> 00:16:37.166
also, like, taking me down when

363
00:16:37.182 --> 00:16:40.030
I'm at my strongest, not when I'm at my weakest. And

364
00:16:40.054 --> 00:16:42.808
so then, Vidal just decides that,

365
00:16:42.848 --> 00:16:45.568
okay, I'm gonna let the Salem seven come

366
00:16:45.648 --> 00:16:48.472
and kill you, which sets us up for the next

367
00:16:48.520 --> 00:16:51.028
episode. But I just.

368
00:16:51.568 --> 00:16:53.988
If that was her plan the whole time,

369
00:16:54.648 --> 00:16:57.456
she certainly wasted a little bit of time because

370
00:16:57.512 --> 00:17:00.088
she just allowed, like, it kind of

371
00:17:00.128 --> 00:17:02.880
felt as though in some moments, she was

372
00:17:02.944 --> 00:17:05.928
trying to get Agatha to

373
00:17:05.968 --> 00:17:08.456
snap out of it and helping

374
00:17:08.512 --> 00:17:11.304
her. So. And I don't

375
00:17:11.336 --> 00:17:12.148
know why.

376
00:17:13.538 --> 00:17:15.994
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, you know,

377
00:17:16.026 --> 00:17:18.842
clearly, whenever Agent Vidal

378
00:17:18.890 --> 00:17:21.842
was, like, trying to. To help her there. I

379
00:17:21.850 --> 00:17:24.810
mean, there's. There's a deep, obviously, a

380
00:17:24.834 --> 00:17:27.770
deeper story there, and I don't know. And

381
00:17:27.834 --> 00:17:30.706
it was obviously, there was clearly that the

382
00:17:30.842 --> 00:17:33.810
sexual tension between the two of them, as well as far as just

383
00:17:33.834 --> 00:17:36.666
the flirting and, you know, so there

384
00:17:36.682 --> 00:17:39.580
was that history. but, you know, but

385
00:17:39.604 --> 00:17:41.928
as we. As we see in the second episode,

386
00:17:43.508 --> 00:17:46.364
Agatha has a history of sapping people's

387
00:17:46.396 --> 00:17:49.078
powers. So, I don't know if that

388
00:17:49.118 --> 00:17:52.038
happened with them in the past and that's

389
00:17:52.078 --> 00:17:54.814
part of the vendetta or. Obviously, we'll get

390
00:17:54.886 --> 00:17:56.006
more about.

391
00:17:56.102 --> 00:17:58.298
>> Sarah : Well, I understand that

392
00:18:00.398 --> 00:18:03.390
they clearly know each other. I didn't pick

393
00:18:03.414 --> 00:18:06.338
up on any flirting, but that's besides the per point.

394
00:18:06.528 --> 00:18:07.828
but, oh,

395
00:18:08.448 --> 00:18:11.424
questioning. Like, why did it

396
00:18:11.456 --> 00:18:13.668
seem like she was helping her

397
00:18:14.648 --> 00:18:17.472
when. When she. She

398
00:18:17.600 --> 00:18:20.576
ultimately wanted to? Like, I just. I don't know.

399
00:18:20.672 --> 00:18:21.120
It was.

400
00:18:21.184 --> 00:18:23.960
>> Will: I mean, unless it has something to tie. Unless it ties back to

401
00:18:23.984 --> 00:18:26.840
Wanda. I mean, maybe

402
00:18:26.904 --> 00:18:29.896
that was white, you know? Well, I think there was two things. One, I

403
00:18:29.912 --> 00:18:32.228
think she was trying to help her, because I think

404
00:18:32.658 --> 00:18:35.078
she was trying to figure out what happened to the Darkhold,

405
00:18:36.578 --> 00:18:39.432
because as Agatha, was. Was. As

406
00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.120
Agatha was, you know, looking at the library card,

407
00:18:42.184 --> 00:18:43.308
and she was.

408
00:18:43.808 --> 00:18:46.736
>> Sarah : Tell her what happened to the. Agatha didn't tell her what happened

409
00:18:46.752 --> 00:18:47.744
to the Darkhold.

410
00:18:47.896 --> 00:18:50.848
>> Will: No, I think. No, I think she. I think Agent Vidal

411
00:18:50.888 --> 00:18:53.868
was trying to figure out. I mean, I think part of the thing that she

412
00:18:54.288 --> 00:18:57.088
was. Part of why she was trying to help

413
00:18:57.128 --> 00:18:59.776
Agatha along was because she. She

414
00:18:59.832 --> 00:19:02.648
suspects that Agatha had something to do with the dark

415
00:19:02.688 --> 00:19:05.308
hole going missing. So

416
00:19:05.968 --> 00:19:08.480
I think that was part of why she was trying to help her,

417
00:19:08.584 --> 00:19:11.548
especially as Agatha was piecing together the clues

418
00:19:12.288 --> 00:19:15.088
on the legal pad. And, you know, and she, you know, she started

419
00:19:15.128 --> 00:19:18.120
writing it out. So I think that was, ah, I think

420
00:19:18.224 --> 00:19:21.160
that was part of what she was.

421
00:19:21.224 --> 00:19:24.216
What was part of her mission there, as far as, you know, trying

422
00:19:24.232 --> 00:19:27.204
to give her breadcrumbs to tease those things out, help

423
00:19:27.236 --> 00:19:28.608
her regain her memory.

424
00:19:31.028 --> 00:19:34.008
>> Sarah : Okay. I mean, yeah,

425
00:19:35.358 --> 00:19:38.094
that could be the case. and then we

426
00:19:38.126 --> 00:19:40.298
get a teen.

427
00:19:40.798 --> 00:19:41.414
>> Will: Yeah.

428
00:19:41.526 --> 00:19:43.734
>> Sarah : Hey, that is how he's credited in

429
00:19:43.806 --> 00:19:46.774
IMDb for a while, I was

430
00:19:46.806 --> 00:19:48.498
calling him the child.

431
00:19:50.918 --> 00:19:53.610
He's clearly the teenage, played by Jode

432
00:19:53.634 --> 00:19:56.496
Locke, who we meet stealing

433
00:19:56.552 --> 00:19:58.896
something from Agatha's house. And then

434
00:19:58.952 --> 00:20:01.728
Agatha takes him down to

435
00:20:01.768 --> 00:20:04.758
the, be interrogated. And,

436
00:20:04.968 --> 00:20:07.892
it's pretty clear within five minutes

437
00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:10.740
that he's a witch. And

438
00:20:10.764 --> 00:20:13.764
so initially, it's kind of like, well, is he working

439
00:20:13.836 --> 00:20:16.788
with Vidal? No, he's actually on a

440
00:20:16.828 --> 00:20:19.400
separate mission and is actually a fanboy

441
00:20:19.524 --> 00:20:21.232
Vegas of some sort.

442
00:20:21.360 --> 00:20:21.784
>> Will: Yep.

443
00:20:22.906 --> 00:20:24.486
>> Sarah : and. And.

444
00:20:25.466 --> 00:20:28.066
And then she inadvertently

445
00:20:28.146 --> 00:20:31.010
kidnaps him. Inadvertently.

446
00:20:31.128 --> 00:20:34.028
Yep. Yep. Kidnaps him.

447
00:20:35.798 --> 00:20:38.598
and we find out more about him

448
00:20:38.678 --> 00:20:41.294
in the second episode, because

449
00:20:41.446 --> 00:20:43.818
he has a plan where

450
00:20:45.958 --> 00:20:48.798
he wants to find the

451
00:20:48.838 --> 00:20:51.670
road, which the road leads to

452
00:20:51.694 --> 00:20:54.344
great power. and so he

453
00:20:54.376 --> 00:20:57.192
convinces Agatha, who has actually done

454
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:00.096
that before, to take him there.

455
00:21:00.048 --> 00:21:02.872
but first they need to find a coven. And so we're

456
00:21:02.888 --> 00:21:05.384
introduced to a few characters and

457
00:21:05.424 --> 00:21:08.168
reintroduced to, the

458
00:21:08.216 --> 00:21:11.072
neighbor, who. I don't know her first name, but

459
00:21:11.088 --> 00:21:12.084
it's just heart.

460
00:21:12.624 --> 00:21:13.102
>> Will: misses Hart.

461
00:21:13.158 --> 00:21:15.966
>> Sarah : Yeah, misses Hart, who's

462
00:21:15.990 --> 00:21:18.838
just great. So, like,

463
00:21:18.966 --> 00:21:21.932
that really, picked up. That was

464
00:21:21.948 --> 00:21:24.804
a really good choice. I loved

465
00:21:24.844 --> 00:21:27.540
her going to the party. And

466
00:21:27.572 --> 00:21:30.524
then as they're doing the seance, just looking around

467
00:21:30.564 --> 00:21:33.020
like, oh, everyone knows this song. I don't

468
00:21:33.052 --> 00:21:33.624
know.

469
00:21:35.054 --> 00:21:37.222
>> Will: I love you. They're like lip syncing.

470
00:21:37.398 --> 00:21:40.366
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And then

471
00:21:40.470 --> 00:21:43.414
every now and then you see out of the corner of the screen, like, her

472
00:21:43.454 --> 00:21:45.822
head, like, bobbling along and getting

473
00:21:45.878 --> 00:21:48.830
really. It's just

474
00:21:48.902 --> 00:21:51.532
plastic. but

475
00:21:51.668 --> 00:21:54.140
what are your thoughts about the

476
00:21:54.212 --> 00:21:56.104
kid, the teen

477
00:21:56.604 --> 00:21:59.074
and, who he is? Because

478
00:21:59.654 --> 00:22:02.614
we learn in this episode that anytime he tries

479
00:22:02.654 --> 00:22:05.592
to tell Agatha his name or

480
00:22:05.688 --> 00:22:08.524
who he is in any sense of the word,

481
00:22:08.734 --> 00:22:10.654
she suddenly cannot hear.

482
00:22:11.434 --> 00:22:13.734
>> Will: Yeah. So. I know. I think he.

483
00:22:14.554 --> 00:22:15.814
I think he's Wiccan.

484
00:22:16.924 --> 00:22:19.856
>> Sarah : that is. I don't know

485
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:20.576
who that is.

486
00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:23.592
>> Will: He's. He's one. I think he's, if I recall, want to say he's one

487
00:22:23.608 --> 00:22:26.576
of Wanda's kids that was created in the

488
00:22:26.600 --> 00:22:29.444
magic and, you know, and

489
00:22:30.044 --> 00:22:32.724
in the comics. I can't remember all his

490
00:22:32.764 --> 00:22:35.590
history, but, But I believe it is one of Wanda's

491
00:22:35.622 --> 00:22:38.414
sons. And so that's part of the reason why

492
00:22:38.494 --> 00:22:41.262
he. Part of the spell, I guess,

493
00:22:41.318 --> 00:22:43.974
is that, you know, Agatha can't understand what he.

494
00:22:44.094 --> 00:22:46.864
Who he is. So, So

495
00:22:46.904 --> 00:22:49.816
that's, you know, part of the. Part of the mystery that we'll have throughout the

496
00:22:49.840 --> 00:22:50.404
season.

497
00:22:50.984 --> 00:22:53.728
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking the whole

498
00:22:53.776 --> 00:22:56.584
time that I feel like at

499
00:22:56.624 --> 00:22:59.560
one point people were talking about Agatha or

500
00:22:59.592 --> 00:23:02.288
not Agatha, but Wanda's kids being

501
00:23:02.376 --> 00:23:05.284
involved in this show to an extent.

502
00:23:05.604 --> 00:23:07.944
so that would make sense.

503
00:23:09.054 --> 00:23:11.894
and seems like probably

504
00:23:11.974 --> 00:23:14.750
the highest probability that that's what's

505
00:23:14.782 --> 00:23:15.714
going on.

506
00:23:18.844 --> 00:23:21.204
what else? Anything else you want to talk

507
00:23:21.244 --> 00:23:24.026
about? episode two. I mean, the

508
00:23:24.050 --> 00:23:26.650
covenants form and then we see the road at the

509
00:23:26.682 --> 00:23:27.254
end.

510
00:23:28.314 --> 00:23:31.218
>> Will: Yeah. I mean, no, I think this, like I said, this

511
00:23:31.266 --> 00:23:34.210
is the beginning. I mean, these two episodes really were, like,

512
00:23:34.362 --> 00:23:37.146
set up for, you know, for the

513
00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:39.818
show. It was smart to drop them together because if. I

514
00:23:39.826 --> 00:23:42.654
think if we had had them a week apart,

515
00:23:42.864 --> 00:23:45.716
you, know, I don't think they would have flowed as well. But

516
00:23:45.748 --> 00:23:48.624
having them back to back like this, you know,

517
00:23:48.712 --> 00:23:51.712
did. Did lend. Lend itself to,

518
00:23:51.816 --> 00:23:54.460
I think, a very solid start to this show.

519
00:23:54.740 --> 00:23:57.612
and I enjoyed it. I really did,

520
00:23:57.636 --> 00:24:00.556
because, like I said, I didn't know really what to

521
00:24:00.588 --> 00:24:03.578
expect. and, you know, and as

522
00:24:03.594 --> 00:24:06.506
far as the. As far as the witches singing their

523
00:24:06.538 --> 00:24:09.538
song and stuff in the show, it definitely worked better than

524
00:24:09.554 --> 00:24:12.520
it did in the acolyte. but,

525
00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:15.570
But, yeah, I'm very curious to

526
00:24:15.586 --> 00:24:18.382
see where the series progresses.

527
00:24:19.042 --> 00:24:21.622
>> Sarah : Yeah, I think overall,

528
00:24:22.802 --> 00:24:24.262
I mean, it's been

529
00:24:25.562 --> 00:24:28.434
two plus years since we've Scene WandaVision.

530
00:24:28.618 --> 00:24:31.346
And so it did a very good

531
00:24:31.474 --> 00:24:34.282
and smart job of bringing

532
00:24:34.322 --> 00:24:35.742
us back to Westview,

533
00:24:38.052 --> 00:24:40.404
like, reminding us about what

534
00:24:40.468 --> 00:24:42.832
happened every time Agatha,

535
00:24:43.422 --> 00:24:45.442
interacted with her neighbors.

536
00:24:46.462 --> 00:24:49.422
And I like how Wanda suddenly in Westview

537
00:24:49.502 --> 00:24:52.132
has become, she who shall not be named.

538
00:24:54.952 --> 00:24:57.848
The PTSD is still there, which

539
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:00.768
is still fascinating. Oh, just

540
00:25:00.840 --> 00:25:03.642
a shout out to Kathryn hahn for, and

541
00:25:03.682 --> 00:25:06.660
Disney plus, man, she was. She was nude. he

542
00:25:06.676 --> 00:25:09.540
didn't see anything. Very careful angles,

543
00:25:09.596 --> 00:25:11.148
but clearly nude.

544
00:25:11.300 --> 00:25:14.244
>> Will: Yeah. So I think we did see some. I think we did see her, but. But

545
00:25:14.268 --> 00:25:15.156
that was about it.

546
00:25:15.284 --> 00:25:18.124
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just.

547
00:25:18.188 --> 00:25:20.924
I'm just like, you know what? You go. You. You

548
00:25:20.988 --> 00:25:22.672
go. Because I really.

549
00:25:23.772 --> 00:25:26.772
I think this. It. These episodes also did a

550
00:25:26.812 --> 00:25:29.444
good job of why they wanted

551
00:25:29.508 --> 00:25:32.224
to give Katherine

552
00:25:32.328 --> 00:25:35.022
more time to shine, through this,

553
00:25:35.102 --> 00:25:37.962
because she really holds her own

554
00:25:38.262 --> 00:25:40.966
and holds the show throughout these

555
00:25:41.014 --> 00:25:43.606
two episodes, arguably throughout,

556
00:25:43.734 --> 00:25:46.502
like, I don't know. I'm

557
00:25:46.542 --> 00:25:48.958
glad we get two episodes, but I could have

558
00:25:48.990 --> 00:25:51.766
probably done a week in between, and it been

559
00:25:51.814 --> 00:25:52.882
fine, too.

560
00:25:54.382 --> 00:25:57.200
But that's just because I think

561
00:25:57.256 --> 00:25:59.760
the first episode was stronger than the second

562
00:25:59.816 --> 00:26:00.496
episode.

563
00:26:00.624 --> 00:26:03.544
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I went back

564
00:26:03.568 --> 00:26:06.544
and forth, but at the end of the day, I did feel like the first one was stronger

565
00:26:06.568 --> 00:26:07.762
than the second. Yeah.

566
00:26:08.282 --> 00:26:11.110
>> Will: but to your point, too, about giving Kathryn hahn the

567
00:26:11.126 --> 00:26:13.974
shine. Opportunity to shine, I think the other thing that they.

568
00:26:14.078 --> 00:26:16.282
That. That allowed her to

569
00:26:16.742 --> 00:26:19.742
Agnes and as a character to Shun was we really

570
00:26:19.782 --> 00:26:22.648
got to get introduced to

571
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.932
more of Agnes as an individual

572
00:26:25.472 --> 00:26:28.092
instead of just the. Instead of just the,

573
00:26:28.232 --> 00:26:31.128
nosy neighbor that she was in WandaVision,

574
00:26:31.320 --> 00:26:34.240
they started to flesh her out more, I

575
00:26:34.256 --> 00:26:35.972
think, in these two episodes.

576
00:26:38.152 --> 00:26:41.032
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't

577
00:26:41.072 --> 00:26:43.960
remember her being the nosy neighbor. I

578
00:26:44.016 --> 00:26:46.760
remember her being the wicked witch from

579
00:26:46.816 --> 00:26:47.652
the west.

580
00:26:47.992 --> 00:26:50.968
>> Will: Or, I mean. Yeah, well, that's. That's what we got at the

581
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.972
end. But, I mean, building up to that point before the

582
00:26:54.272 --> 00:26:55.012
Bill.

583
00:26:55.312 --> 00:26:58.052
>> Sarah : Right. I completely understand why you said that.

584
00:26:58.882 --> 00:27:01.674
and it just reminds me of the scene where she's peeling

585
00:27:01.738 --> 00:27:04.002
off those layers of all those different

586
00:27:04.082 --> 00:27:07.022
characters. because they did go through the decades of

587
00:27:07.062 --> 00:27:09.972
television. which, again,

588
00:27:10.092 --> 00:27:12.876
is maybe another reason why they presented

589
00:27:12.964 --> 00:27:15.556
Agnes where she was. Because it

590
00:27:15.604 --> 00:27:18.460
did look like something that would air on

591
00:27:18.516 --> 00:27:21.432
HBO right now. I, mean, true crime

592
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.472
aside, it's just what the whole

593
00:27:24.520 --> 00:27:27.158
premise of that show and what, people are

594
00:27:27.198 --> 00:27:29.458
watching these days. So

595
00:27:30.558 --> 00:27:33.430
overall, it's very good. Three years

596
00:27:33.494 --> 00:27:36.358
clearly has passed. and

597
00:27:36.518 --> 00:27:38.218
I like the fact that,

598
00:27:39.708 --> 00:27:42.388
it's not just that we have two comic book

599
00:27:42.428 --> 00:27:44.982
shows, to talk about,

600
00:27:45.150 --> 00:27:47.978
but two spinoffs. And,

601
00:27:49.228 --> 00:27:51.968
they both played it very smart,

602
00:27:53.438 --> 00:27:56.190
but in different ways. Because while

603
00:27:56.294 --> 00:27:58.178
it's been three years

604
00:27:58.878 --> 00:28:01.018
since we've Scene Wandavision

605
00:28:01.398 --> 00:28:04.214
and in this world of Westview, it's been three

606
00:28:04.286 --> 00:28:06.248
years in the penguin,

607
00:28:07.068 --> 00:28:09.892
it's very clear that it's what.

608
00:28:09.940 --> 00:28:11.048
It's been a week.

609
00:28:14.148 --> 00:28:17.068
>> Will: Two years. Two years in real time since the movie the Batman.

610
00:28:17.108 --> 00:28:20.094
Because it was, And then. Yeah. And then one week from the events

611
00:28:20.126 --> 00:28:22.974
of the Batman. And they did a smart

612
00:28:23.046 --> 00:28:25.862
job. I mean, what I really like, to your point

613
00:28:25.910 --> 00:28:28.818
about how they took different approaches,

614
00:28:29.208 --> 00:28:31.580
one of the one. One element of that to me

615
00:28:31.644 --> 00:28:34.528
was if you never. If you didn't

616
00:28:34.568 --> 00:28:37.392
watch the Batman, they did a

617
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.108
great job of summing up, really, the

618
00:28:40.928 --> 00:28:43.768
key moments and of the end of

619
00:28:43.848 --> 00:28:46.622
that movie, in the first few

620
00:28:46.670 --> 00:28:49.582
minutes of the penguin. And also just for us, as view

621
00:28:49.630 --> 00:28:52.510
as me, because I haven't watched. I haven't watched Batman in a while.

622
00:28:52.694 --> 00:28:55.670
So it reminded me of, like. I mean, I remember the

623
00:28:55.694 --> 00:28:58.686
flood and all that stuff, but, you know, I have forgotten it was a realtor to set it off, the

624
00:28:58.702 --> 00:29:01.690
bombs and stuff. So it was like, I

625
00:29:01.714 --> 00:29:04.690
forgot that I did. I really did. It's been a long time. Like I said,

626
00:29:04.714 --> 00:29:07.138
I think I've only watched a Batman once in the theater,

627
00:29:07.218 --> 00:29:09.866
maybe once afterwards. And I haven't watched it

628
00:29:09.882 --> 00:29:10.438
since.

629
00:29:10.778 --> 00:29:13.730
>> Sarah : I've only watched it once in theaters. Yeah,

630
00:29:13.874 --> 00:29:15.238
but I remember that.

631
00:29:15.538 --> 00:29:16.318
>> Will: Yeah.

632
00:29:17.818 --> 00:29:20.450
>> Sarah : Critical point. I didn't. I mean,

633
00:29:20.554 --> 00:29:23.530
yeah, I remember. Memory is a

634
00:29:23.554 --> 00:29:26.038
weird thing because I feel as though,

635
00:29:26.528 --> 00:29:29.510
in this first episode, after hours, they

636
00:29:29.534 --> 00:29:32.358
did a good job of, very quickly, as you put it,

637
00:29:32.478 --> 00:29:35.318
reminding m jogging your memory of

638
00:29:35.478 --> 00:29:38.406
the critical events. And I would also

639
00:29:38.462 --> 00:29:40.418
say the critical events

640
00:29:41.478 --> 00:29:44.168
pertaining to how,

641
00:29:44.478 --> 00:29:46.926
do you set up a series of our

642
00:29:46.982 --> 00:29:49.646
show season involving

643
00:29:49.782 --> 00:29:52.396
the penguin. So it's like things that

644
00:29:52.452 --> 00:29:55.308
happened at the end of the Batman that really

645
00:29:55.428 --> 00:29:58.396
will impact the penguin and the world

646
00:29:58.492 --> 00:29:59.808
he's living in.

647
00:30:01.188 --> 00:30:04.124
and so it's been a week since the

648
00:30:04.156 --> 00:30:06.688
death of Carmine Falcone.

649
00:30:07.468 --> 00:30:09.874
And, this leads

650
00:30:09.986 --> 00:30:12.638
to a conversation,

651
00:30:13.308 --> 00:30:15.754
ah, between Al and

652
00:30:15.786 --> 00:30:18.690
Penguin. But before we get

653
00:30:18.714 --> 00:30:21.576
into the events of this episode, will, why

654
00:30:21.592 --> 00:30:24.504
don't you just share your overall thoughts, overall.

655
00:30:24.536 --> 00:30:27.098
>> Will: Faults, as I touched on it earlier? Definitely,

656
00:30:27.468 --> 00:30:30.328
think it did a good job of just.

657
00:30:30.708 --> 00:30:33.608
And really to piggyback on your thought. It really

658
00:30:34.588 --> 00:30:37.436
harnessed why we should care about

659
00:30:37.612 --> 00:30:40.420
this character and

660
00:30:40.444 --> 00:30:43.068
his backstory and why he was so

661
00:30:43.108 --> 00:30:45.866
interesting. you know, because I did. You know, I was

662
00:30:45.898 --> 00:30:48.322
listening to the. The official

663
00:30:48.386 --> 00:30:50.922
podcast of. Of the

664
00:30:50.986 --> 00:30:53.110
penguin, and they. They noted that

665
00:30:53.650 --> 00:30:55.830
Oz only had six scenes in the movie.

666
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.600
and. And so

667
00:30:59.420 --> 00:31:02.004
he. With the way they

668
00:31:02.052 --> 00:31:03.480
framed this show

669
00:31:04.540 --> 00:31:07.532
and what happened,

670
00:31:07.556 --> 00:31:09.600
you know, and then to your point,

671
00:31:10.120 --> 00:31:12.512
how now, because of

672
00:31:12.696 --> 00:31:14.580
Carmine being gone,

673
00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:18.672
the power vacuum opening up, it opens the door

674
00:31:18.736 --> 00:31:21.272
to, like, really giving us an

675
00:31:21.296 --> 00:31:24.296
exploration of this character, and especially whenever we

676
00:31:24.328 --> 00:31:26.656
first, you know, whenever we get those

677
00:31:26.848 --> 00:31:29.800
early, intense minutes with that conversation

678
00:31:29.840 --> 00:31:32.712
between him and Al. So

679
00:31:32.816 --> 00:31:35.732
I really just, really just enjoyed. Just from

680
00:31:35.756 --> 00:31:38.604
the minute I was just. From the get, I was just

681
00:31:38.772 --> 00:31:41.430
engrossed into this world again. And,

682
00:31:41.712 --> 00:31:44.712
also just the groundedness of it. I mean, just seeing things like the

683
00:31:44.736 --> 00:31:47.504
FEMA, you know, just seeing, like the FEMA disaster

684
00:31:47.592 --> 00:31:50.502
recovery, centers and stuff, it just, you know,

685
00:31:50.686 --> 00:31:53.630
yes, this, you know, yes, this is a comic book world that

686
00:31:53.670 --> 00:31:56.410
we're in, but it really

687
00:31:56.990 --> 00:31:59.968
not only did it set up the, penguin as

688
00:31:59.984 --> 00:32:02.672
a character, but it just reminded us as Gotham as a character as

689
00:32:02.696 --> 00:32:05.566
well. And it really just

690
00:32:05.598 --> 00:32:08.406
a very grounded world that we're living

691
00:32:08.438 --> 00:32:10.690
in, in this iteration of

692
00:32:11.150 --> 00:32:12.490
the bat universe.

693
00:32:13.430 --> 00:32:16.210
>> Sarah : Yeah, I would agree that,

694
00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:20.210
this first episode, it was

695
00:32:20.250 --> 00:32:23.042
pretty a. It was captivating

696
00:32:23.106 --> 00:32:25.730
just because of Colin Farrell's

697
00:32:25.770 --> 00:32:28.650
performance. yeah, we. I mean, put

698
00:32:28.674 --> 00:32:31.482
aside makeup and all of that, just

699
00:32:31.610 --> 00:32:34.050
his mannerisms, and he owns the entire

700
00:32:34.114 --> 00:32:36.600
episode. this is the penguin, and we

701
00:32:36.632 --> 00:32:39.400
literally follow him throughout the

702
00:32:39.432 --> 00:32:42.408
entire episode, which is so.

703
00:32:42.496 --> 00:32:45.270
Such a, You would think that would be

704
00:32:45.318 --> 00:32:48.142
such a more common thing, but it's

705
00:32:48.174 --> 00:32:51.152
really nothing because especially in this day and

706
00:32:51.184 --> 00:32:53.616
age, where we have. We have way more

707
00:32:53.696 --> 00:32:56.400
ensembles. This really

708
00:32:56.448 --> 00:32:59.344
isn't an ensemble. Okay. I would.

709
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.232
I would argue, ah, based solely on the

710
00:33:02.264 --> 00:33:04.992
first episode, this is not an ensemble. This is

711
00:33:05.064 --> 00:33:07.316
Colin Farrell owning.

712
00:33:09.576 --> 00:33:12.536
Just. Just because I would

713
00:33:12.576 --> 00:33:13.556
also say

714
00:33:15.926 --> 00:33:18.662
his performance and what he's able

715
00:33:18.734 --> 00:33:21.598
to bring out of his fellow

716
00:33:21.702 --> 00:33:23.346
actors and actresses

717
00:33:25.036 --> 00:33:27.516
lifts up the story itself,

718
00:33:27.596 --> 00:33:30.016
because, I mean,

719
00:33:31.516 --> 00:33:34.242
we've all Scene this before. it

720
00:33:34.274 --> 00:33:36.806
definitely plays homage to.

721
00:33:37.666 --> 00:33:40.666
And somebody said breaking bad. No, no, no. This isn't Breaking

722
00:33:40.706 --> 00:33:43.410
Bad, okay? Breaking Bad

723
00:33:43.498 --> 00:33:45.286
is watching a good person

724
00:33:46.066 --> 00:33:48.962
slowly, over time, become

725
00:33:49.074 --> 00:33:51.938
evil. This is an

726
00:33:51.962 --> 00:33:54.642
homage to classic

727
00:33:54.834 --> 00:33:57.394
gangster movies and

728
00:33:57.410 --> 00:34:00.050
tv. Like, it's

729
00:34:00.218 --> 00:34:02.762
you. I mean, from the

730
00:34:02.834 --> 00:34:05.610
opening scene where he talks about

731
00:34:05.658 --> 00:34:08.450
what power is, we've heard people,

732
00:34:08.538 --> 00:34:11.192
we've heard mobsters talk like,

733
00:34:11.354 --> 00:34:14.324
characters say that, and you're like,

734
00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:17.108
yes. I mean, this is godfather.

735
00:34:17.292 --> 00:34:18.336
Come on.

736
00:34:18.876 --> 00:34:19.856
>> Will: Exactly.

737
00:34:20.756 --> 00:34:23.740
>> Sarah : And I think because they did that in

738
00:34:23.788 --> 00:34:26.416
such a. Because

739
00:34:27.156 --> 00:34:29.736
between that and just his performance,

740
00:34:30.876 --> 00:34:32.896
that's where the nuance was,

741
00:34:35.056 --> 00:34:37.392
that I was hoping

742
00:34:37.464 --> 00:34:40.336
for. Now, I wish some

743
00:34:40.376 --> 00:34:42.912
other things could be a bit more nuanced, but we'll get

744
00:34:42.944 --> 00:34:45.858
there. so overall, I was really

745
00:34:45.922 --> 00:34:48.126
satisfied with this episode.

746
00:34:49.876 --> 00:34:52.532
and I'm curious about the next

747
00:34:52.604 --> 00:34:55.068
one. And just to see where things are going to

748
00:34:55.092 --> 00:34:58.074
go, and just to

749
00:34:58.130 --> 00:35:00.916
really, just watch Colin Farrell

750
00:35:00.996 --> 00:35:03.618
earn his first, Emmy. So.

751
00:35:03.786 --> 00:35:05.534
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure.

752
00:35:06.154 --> 00:35:09.010
>> Sarah : I mean, he's gotta at least be nominated.

753
00:35:09.082 --> 00:35:10.386
>> Will: He's gotta be nominated.

754
00:35:10.570 --> 00:35:13.434
>> Sarah : Do not pull a viserys. Okay. I'm still.

755
00:35:13.594 --> 00:35:16.178
That's why we could care less about the Emmys these days, because

756
00:35:16.226 --> 00:35:18.754
Viserys got robbed. Patty was

757
00:35:18.794 --> 00:35:21.534
robbed. I don't understand that.

758
00:35:22.274 --> 00:35:25.044
Oh, my God. so

759
00:35:25.904 --> 00:35:28.144
this power vacuum, which is

760
00:35:28.184 --> 00:35:30.984
interesting because I was like, okay, yeah,

761
00:35:31.064 --> 00:35:33.952
we have a mobster kingpin die at the end of

762
00:35:33.968 --> 00:35:36.732
the Batman. And so, of course, now everybody's like a

763
00:35:36.748 --> 00:35:39.204
power vacuum. It's

764
00:35:39.244 --> 00:35:41.956
interesting how it didn't

765
00:35:42.020 --> 00:35:44.892
feel like a power vacuum in this episode.

766
00:35:44.988 --> 00:35:47.836
No, because you're literally

767
00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:50.700
watching Oz

768
00:35:50.772 --> 00:35:53.452
make a decision. And,

769
00:35:53.514 --> 00:35:56.218
purely. And you knew it the

770
00:35:56.274 --> 00:35:59.110
moment Al laughed. You're like, oh, you're dead.

771
00:35:59.068 --> 00:36:02.062
you're dead. It's a

772
00:36:02.094 --> 00:36:04.462
weird thing because, to an

773
00:36:04.494 --> 00:36:06.946
extent, some of us viewers

774
00:36:07.326 --> 00:36:10.118
already know this character. So we already

775
00:36:10.302 --> 00:36:13.270
have this idea of, like, if Oz had

776
00:36:13.318 --> 00:36:16.198
not shot Al, we would probably

777
00:36:16.262 --> 00:36:19.198
be like, okay, what are they doing with

778
00:36:19.222 --> 00:36:22.150
the penguin? Like, this isn't the penguin we know. Like,

779
00:36:22.278 --> 00:36:25.118
no. Yeah, but he does. And

780
00:36:25.142 --> 00:36:28.096
then the whole episode is, how do you

781
00:36:28.136 --> 00:36:30.916
find your way out of this? Because, you know.

782
00:36:32.296 --> 00:36:34.808
And so we're watching that

783
00:36:34.872 --> 00:36:37.496
chess. I don't know if it's

784
00:36:37.536 --> 00:36:40.436
chess, because I don't really know who,

785
00:36:40.896 --> 00:36:43.480
to an extent, but we're just watching

786
00:36:43.568 --> 00:36:46.288
him scramble and come up with a

787
00:36:46.312 --> 00:36:49.168
plan and, And being able to maneuver

788
00:36:49.232 --> 00:36:52.098
himself out of, being

789
00:36:52.162 --> 00:36:55.146
caught in this situation, which I personally

790
00:36:55.186 --> 00:36:58.154
thought the ring was gonna do it, but they did a

791
00:36:58.170 --> 00:36:59.338
smart thing with that.

792
00:36:59.482 --> 00:37:02.354
>> Will: They did. They did. Yeah. I mean, I think to your. Yeah, I mean, I

793
00:37:02.370 --> 00:37:05.186
think that's the thing. It's like, because as soon as I

794
00:37:05.226 --> 00:37:07.416
poke fun of him, and,

795
00:37:08.556 --> 00:37:10.924
you know, he and Oz

796
00:37:11.020 --> 00:37:13.652
reacted instinctively. And I think.

797
00:37:13.764 --> 00:37:16.620
And I think that's, you know, you're right. I mean,

798
00:37:16.748 --> 00:37:19.656
you know, because the penguin is such a

799
00:37:19.776 --> 00:37:22.528
well established character, you know,

800
00:37:22.552 --> 00:37:25.072
we know what. We know where the. We know what the

801
00:37:25.104 --> 00:37:27.888
what. We know the end game as far as the story.

802
00:37:27.952 --> 00:37:30.496
Whenever once

803
00:37:30.656 --> 00:37:33.568
Penguin is the character, we know. But this

804
00:37:33.592 --> 00:37:36.560
is like, how do we get to that place? It's sort

805
00:37:36.568 --> 00:37:39.568
of like, even like, with the. Like with the Batman, you know, the

806
00:37:39.592 --> 00:37:42.038
movie itself was like, you know, it's like, I guess year two

807
00:37:42.102 --> 00:37:45.070
of Bruce's journey as the Batman. And so we know we

808
00:37:45.078 --> 00:37:47.592
had a very emo Batman. He's not like, he's

809
00:37:47.624 --> 00:37:50.376
still refining becoming the world's greatest

810
00:37:50.416 --> 00:37:53.184
detective. And so in this show, we're seeing how

811
00:37:53.240 --> 00:37:56.232
penguin becomes the mass, you know, the boss

812
00:37:56.304 --> 00:37:58.944
of Gotham's underworld in this show.

813
00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:01.848
And you're right. I mean, how they just sort of

814
00:38:01.872 --> 00:38:04.806
structured that at the outset, right out.

815
00:38:04.846 --> 00:38:07.798
Right out of the gate, there was. They're like, we're

816
00:38:07.822 --> 00:38:10.430
going to jump right into this story, you know, so that, you know,

817
00:38:10.478 --> 00:38:13.392
Aldouse, you know, poor Joel measles

818
00:38:13.424 --> 00:38:15.976
was gone in the first, you know, ten minutes or

819
00:38:16.016 --> 00:38:16.756
whatever.

820
00:38:17.136 --> 00:38:20.120
>> Sarah : It took me a while to figure out, like, I know that

821
00:38:20.168 --> 00:38:21.716
face, I know that voice.

822
00:38:23.096 --> 00:38:25.366
what do you think of Victor?

823
00:38:26.306 --> 00:38:28.904
>> Will: So, Victor, you

824
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:31.616
know, I've Scene this

825
00:38:31.696 --> 00:38:34.336
out there, and I agree. This

826
00:38:34.376 --> 00:38:37.348
is penguins version of

827
00:38:37.492 --> 00:38:40.094
his robin. and so.

828
00:38:40.150 --> 00:38:42.846
But sort of just how. Yeah,

829
00:38:42.926 --> 00:38:45.848
but, But, you know, but sort of how Victor falls

830
00:38:45.912 --> 00:38:48.800
into. Into this situation because,

831
00:38:48.848 --> 00:38:51.424
you know, big ones at the

832
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.344
iceberg lounge and, you know,

833
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:57.264
these kids are just, you know, again, taking advantage of the

834
00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:00.064
situation because, again, we're just a week from the. From the. From the

835
00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:02.852
flood. And. And

836
00:39:02.964 --> 00:39:05.868
so he's at

837
00:39:05.892 --> 00:39:08.780
the, you know, he's the true, proverbial wrong place at

838
00:39:08.788 --> 00:39:09.736
the wrong time.

839
00:39:11.076 --> 00:39:12.856
Yeah. Yeah.

840
00:39:14.556 --> 00:39:16.356
>> Sarah : Did you recognize the actor?

841
00:39:16.516 --> 00:39:17.484
>> Will: I did not.

842
00:39:17.660 --> 00:39:20.516
>> Sarah : Okay. Did we talk about. Did we talk.

843
00:39:20.636 --> 00:39:23.604
Did we watch and talk about the show the runaways?

844
00:39:23.700 --> 00:39:25.084
Do you remember that show?

845
00:39:25.220 --> 00:39:27.656
>> Will: I remember. I did not watch it. You did.

846
00:39:27.836 --> 00:39:28.640
>> Sarah : I did.

847
00:39:28.768 --> 00:39:29.080
>> Will: Yeah.

848
00:39:29.128 --> 00:39:31.076
>> Sarah : What? That doesn't seem right.

849
00:39:31.376 --> 00:39:34.280
>> Will: Yeah. Ah, you watched it. I think, with our. Yeah, with. I think you

850
00:39:34.288 --> 00:39:36.854
were. I think you watched it with, some other. I

851
00:39:36.870 --> 00:39:39.702
think, prior to me joining a podcast or

852
00:39:39.774 --> 00:39:42.334
came around the same or maybe about the same time,

853
00:39:42.510 --> 00:39:43.974
maybe around the same time.

854
00:39:44.030 --> 00:39:46.398
>> Sarah : Because it was from 2017 to

855
00:39:46.422 --> 00:39:47.286
2019.

856
00:39:47.446 --> 00:39:48.782
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

857
00:39:48.854 --> 00:39:51.662
>> Sarah : Okay. Okay. Because he

858
00:39:51.694 --> 00:39:54.614
played a character on that. I just. I

859
00:39:54.630 --> 00:39:57.286
don't know. I could. I had to look at IMDb for it,

860
00:39:57.326 --> 00:40:00.142
but I was. I was watching, and I'm

861
00:40:00.174 --> 00:40:02.998
like, your face looks so familiar, I

862
00:40:03.022 --> 00:40:05.622
cannot put my finger on

863
00:40:05.654 --> 00:40:07.992
it. I just. I don't

864
00:40:08.064 --> 00:40:10.840
think, like, to go back to everything

865
00:40:10.928 --> 00:40:13.116
I was just saying about Carl and Farrell.

866
00:40:14.166 --> 00:40:17.030
we don't know enough about Victor. We haven't seen enough

867
00:40:17.078 --> 00:40:19.916
from Victor. It was very clear

868
00:40:20.456 --> 00:40:23.256
that, okay, you need to

869
00:40:23.296 --> 00:40:26.280
establish someone who is

870
00:40:26.328 --> 00:40:29.040
able, like Colin Farrell

871
00:40:29.128 --> 00:40:31.736
or Oz can talk to throughout this

872
00:40:31.776 --> 00:40:34.304
episode. So we just don't get

873
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.368
20 minutes of him staring off into the distance,

874
00:40:37.472 --> 00:40:39.996
clearly thinking, yeah,

875
00:40:42.336 --> 00:40:45.088
so why not?

876
00:40:45.086 --> 00:40:47.372
And, yeah, like

877
00:40:47.484 --> 00:40:50.100
Robin, I even put that in my notes, but

878
00:40:50.148 --> 00:40:51.296
also just

879
00:40:52.556 --> 00:40:55.260
someone who. It makes sense.

880
00:40:55.388 --> 00:40:57.856
And you understand why. I mean,

881
00:40:59.396 --> 00:41:01.980
you understand why. Just not

882
00:41:02.028 --> 00:41:04.700
necessarily. I think more so from your.

883
00:41:04.828 --> 00:41:07.736
Your basic understanding of who penguin is

884
00:41:09.556 --> 00:41:12.256
then, than anything else. So

885
00:41:14.036 --> 00:41:16.880
I think the actor, is hopefully

886
00:41:16.928 --> 00:41:19.558
going to learn a lot from Colin. and I'm

887
00:41:19.582 --> 00:41:22.226
just. I'm interested to see

888
00:41:22.646 --> 00:41:25.518
if, they're

889
00:41:25.582 --> 00:41:28.046
able, first of all, if he'll survive this

890
00:41:28.086 --> 00:41:28.598
season.

891
00:41:28.742 --> 00:41:31.582
>> Will: Yeah, that was about to say. Because, I mean, every moment,

892
00:41:31.654 --> 00:41:34.324
I mean, I will say as far as the, actor who

893
00:41:34.356 --> 00:41:36.928
plays Victor, his portrayal,

894
00:41:37.988 --> 00:41:40.692
he brought the right element of fear

895
00:41:40.780 --> 00:41:43.410
of, like, is this going to be

896
00:41:43.594 --> 00:41:46.474
the moment? You know, like, I think about the. The moment when Erin,

897
00:41:46.506 --> 00:41:49.472
the. In the, you know, when. When Oz tells him, look

898
00:41:49.496 --> 00:41:52.442
at the sunrise and, you know, is this the moment that he

899
00:41:52.458 --> 00:41:55.014
gets, you know, they caps this kid.

900
00:41:55.344 --> 00:41:56.852
>> Sarah : He was going to live the whole time.

901
00:41:56.988 --> 00:41:59.828
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, but. But I think the point. But I know it's going

902
00:41:59.836 --> 00:42:02.820
to your. You're right. I mean, Oz needed that.

903
00:42:02.892 --> 00:42:05.450
That. That person to play off of.

904
00:42:05.612 --> 00:42:07.086
>> Sarah : Yeah, but.

905
00:42:07.230 --> 00:42:10.110
>> Will: But I think they still did a good job of keeping

906
00:42:10.142 --> 00:42:12.910
the tension there throughout the episode

907
00:42:12.982 --> 00:42:15.914
of is this kid going to make it or not?

908
00:42:19.254 --> 00:42:20.582
At least for me it did.

909
00:42:20.718 --> 00:42:23.224
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, it didn't for me.

910
00:42:23.724 --> 00:42:26.704
I. In a weird way,

911
00:42:27.964 --> 00:42:30.834
as soon as Al Diesen,

912
00:42:31.974 --> 00:42:34.660
I didn't really have too much tension going on in this

913
00:42:34.692 --> 00:42:37.692
show. I just. I mean, this is

914
00:42:37.708 --> 00:42:40.460
the first episode, so I'm

915
00:42:40.492 --> 00:42:43.180
like, I don't know. There. There

916
00:42:43.252 --> 00:42:46.220
wasn't a whole lot of stakes. It was fascinating

917
00:42:46.412 --> 00:42:49.220
watching, figuring out the plan

918
00:42:49.372 --> 00:42:52.372
and seeing the plan, but tension, I don't. I

919
00:42:52.388 --> 00:42:55.064
didn't really have a sense of tension,

920
00:42:55.524 --> 00:42:58.284
even though there was, like two scene

921
00:42:58.364 --> 00:43:00.716
fight sequences and all of that stuff.

922
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:03.730
But, But, yeah, I didn't. I didn't really get

923
00:43:03.762 --> 00:43:05.884
a lot of tension.

924
00:43:07.624 --> 00:43:09.564
even. Even with Sophia.

925
00:43:10.284 --> 00:43:12.434
yeah. And.

926
00:43:12.934 --> 00:43:14.554
And so

927
00:43:15.454 --> 00:43:16.754
writing wise,

928
00:43:17.934 --> 00:43:20.910
I'm. I'm very interested for

929
00:43:20.942 --> 00:43:23.888
them to flesh out more of that what

930
00:43:23.936 --> 00:43:26.714
happened. because we know. We

931
00:43:26.754 --> 00:43:29.666
learn that she is freshly released

932
00:43:29.690 --> 00:43:32.394
from Arkham. Penguin did not know.

933
00:43:32.554 --> 00:43:35.554
We also learn that Penguin clearly had

934
00:43:35.594 --> 00:43:38.578
something to do with her being sent to Arkham, and

935
00:43:38.626 --> 00:43:39.734
she knows it.

936
00:43:41.194 --> 00:43:43.534
And there's somewhat.

937
00:43:44.554 --> 00:43:47.178
I don't know. I see, I sensed a. Not

938
00:43:47.226 --> 00:43:50.170
flirting, but a little bit of like, okay, we used to

939
00:43:50.202 --> 00:43:52.404
hook up at one point, so

940
00:43:52.904 --> 00:43:55.884
I don't. I don't know. And

941
00:43:56.744 --> 00:43:58.004
there's also,

942
00:44:00.224 --> 00:44:03.004
She quickly

943
00:44:03.304 --> 00:44:05.974
figures out, that

944
00:44:06.514 --> 00:44:08.994
he somewhat is

945
00:44:09.034 --> 00:44:11.626
involved with the disappearance of her

946
00:44:11.650 --> 00:44:14.096
brother. And, because

947
00:44:14.240 --> 00:44:17.054
he uses a. This idea of this

948
00:44:17.094 --> 00:44:19.354
new drug that al told him about,

949
00:44:19.954 --> 00:44:22.540
and as his bargaining

950
00:44:22.612 --> 00:44:25.224
chip to retain his

951
00:44:26.044 --> 00:44:29.024
block, I don't know what they called it.

952
00:44:31.004 --> 00:44:33.424
To retain that. Retain that.

953
00:44:34.374 --> 00:44:37.354
so. And I do.

954
00:44:37.774 --> 00:44:40.760
I do appreciate that they, they bring out a

955
00:44:40.822 --> 00:44:43.644
sophia and she appears to be formidable.

956
00:44:43.804 --> 00:44:46.468
I will say something. I was

957
00:44:46.556 --> 00:44:49.500
not overly impressed with this actress.

958
00:44:49.572 --> 00:44:52.452
I've Scene her in other things, but the

959
00:44:52.508 --> 00:44:55.356
way, I just thought it was one note

960
00:44:55.420 --> 00:44:56.824
the entire time.

961
00:44:57.204 --> 00:44:58.484
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

962
00:44:58.644 --> 00:45:01.500
>> Sarah : I'm like, you're okay. You're getting a

963
00:45:01.532 --> 00:45:04.284
lot of screen time, and I'm seeing

964
00:45:04.324 --> 00:45:07.012
the same person. Like, there, there wasn't. It

965
00:45:07.028 --> 00:45:09.390
was. It's just like, let me just

966
00:45:09.462 --> 00:45:12.354
stare. Like, did I stare at you?

967
00:45:12.934 --> 00:45:15.734
And kind of mumble, but also

968
00:45:15.814 --> 00:45:18.764
just talk, really. I don't know. like,

969
00:45:19.544 --> 00:45:21.484
I get what she was doing,

970
00:45:22.104 --> 00:45:25.048
but it also felt one

971
00:45:25.096 --> 00:45:26.176
out to me.

972
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:29.336
>> Will: Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, it was. I mean, I thought

973
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:32.296
she. It was good. I mean, she did a

974
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:35.212
great job, but it was. But it was very one dimensional

975
00:45:35.268 --> 00:45:37.700
at this point. Like, you know, I'm the hangman. I'm just out of

976
00:45:37.772 --> 00:45:40.584
Arkham. And, and,

977
00:45:40.654 --> 00:45:43.470
I know whenever they had the torture scene there with, with

978
00:45:43.582 --> 00:45:46.472
Oz, you know, she did get a little bit

979
00:45:46.488 --> 00:45:49.444
more menacing. but, yeah,

980
00:45:49.744 --> 00:45:52.392
the scene at a restaurant, whenever they were.

981
00:45:52.448 --> 00:45:54.884
Whenever she was sorting out what

982
00:45:55.224 --> 00:45:57.960
and reading between the lines of figuring out that he was.

983
00:45:58.032 --> 00:46:00.158
He did have something to do with Al's disappearance.

984
00:46:02.536 --> 00:46:05.392
>> Will: yeah, I mean, I think one of the most things I got conveyed from

985
00:46:05.424 --> 00:46:08.288
that, from that scene was just the history. And also

986
00:46:08.352 --> 00:46:11.224
I was thinking, oh, we're going to get some. We're going to get some. We're going to get

987
00:46:11.240 --> 00:46:14.152
some flashbacks with, with the two of

988
00:46:14.184 --> 00:46:16.556
them and probably Carmine

989
00:46:16.856 --> 00:46:19.808
as well, just to sort of flesh out what that history is

990
00:46:19.832 --> 00:46:20.396
there.

991
00:46:21.736 --> 00:46:24.384
>> Sarah : Well, we'll see. We'll see.

992
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:26.858
I. In a way, I hope we don't have.

993
00:46:26.992 --> 00:46:29.226
Yeah, I just,

994
00:46:30.086 --> 00:46:30.826
I

995
00:46:32.966 --> 00:46:35.806
I don't know. The flashbacks, they can be an easy

996
00:46:35.846 --> 00:46:36.586
crutch.

997
00:46:37.046 --> 00:46:39.822
>> Will: Yeah, well, I know John tutorials play, you know, he's stepping in

998
00:46:39.854 --> 00:46:42.740
for, who played, who played Carmine in the movie. I can't remember

999
00:46:42.788 --> 00:46:45.564
who, but he. But Carmine is going to show up in the

1000
00:46:45.580 --> 00:46:46.844
series at some point.

1001
00:46:47.020 --> 00:46:48.396
>> Sarah : Great. Well, I.

1002
00:46:48.476 --> 00:46:50.956
>> Will: Maybe. Or maybe, or maybe it'll just be with. With Sal

1003
00:46:50.996 --> 00:46:52.794
Maroni and Carmine.

1004
00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:55.706
>> Sarah : I was going to say, like, I mean,

1005
00:46:56.566 --> 00:46:59.470
I would be okay, more so with flashbacks about

1006
00:46:59.518 --> 00:47:02.430
those two and. And what happened there and

1007
00:47:02.518 --> 00:47:05.510
how, how, Carmine even got a hold

1008
00:47:05.558 --> 00:47:08.346
of Sal's ring. That is a very,

1009
00:47:08.806 --> 00:47:11.606
important piece, that gets

1010
00:47:11.686 --> 00:47:14.350
moved around from Al to Oz and then

1011
00:47:14.398 --> 00:47:16.866
ultimately to Sal in the end,

1012
00:47:17.126 --> 00:47:20.074
who's in prison. Also, did we know that Sal was gonna

1013
00:47:20.090 --> 00:47:22.356
be, played by Clancy Brown?

1014
00:47:22.626 --> 00:47:25.570
>> Will: no, I didn't know that. Yeah.

1015
00:47:25.658 --> 00:47:28.506
>> Sarah : First of all, love it. And also love the fact

1016
00:47:28.546 --> 00:47:29.766
that I did not know.

1017
00:47:30.146 --> 00:47:33.082
>> Will: Same here. I was like, oh, when he showed up, I was like,

1018
00:47:33.114 --> 00:47:34.406
oh, all right.

1019
00:47:34.866 --> 00:47:37.020
>> Sarah : No, I, Thank you.

1020
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:39.420
It's a welcome surprise.

1021
00:47:41.430 --> 00:47:44.230
Very, very good. And I also appreciate that

1022
00:47:44.350 --> 00:47:47.198
he immediately is like penguin. You're full of

1023
00:47:47.214 --> 00:47:49.616
shit. only for

1024
00:47:49.768 --> 00:47:52.520
them, then for

1025
00:47:52.560 --> 00:47:55.496
Oz to use the ring, which, I mean, that ring,

1026
00:47:55.528 --> 00:47:58.464
the whole time, I was like, dude, you brought it back to

1027
00:47:58.472 --> 00:48:00.912
your house, you put it in your

1028
00:48:00.936 --> 00:48:03.544
nightstand. They're gonna find

1029
00:48:03.632 --> 00:48:06.440
that, like, three episodes later.

1030
00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:10.900
So I'm glad that they were very aware of

1031
00:48:10.940 --> 00:48:13.572
that and managed to use that

1032
00:48:13.716 --> 00:48:16.560
to help further convince Sal,

1033
00:48:17.660 --> 00:48:20.236
to. Or not even convince them, but more

1034
00:48:20.308 --> 00:48:20.920
to,

1035
00:48:23.140 --> 00:48:25.916
realign to make a new

1036
00:48:25.948 --> 00:48:28.620
alliance. So at the end of the day, Penguin comes out

1037
00:48:28.700 --> 00:48:31.052
clean, no matter which side, and

1038
00:48:31.156 --> 00:48:34.014
ultimately, starts the mob

1039
00:48:34.062 --> 00:48:37.054
war again between these two rivalry

1040
00:48:37.102 --> 00:48:37.814
families.

1041
00:48:37.942 --> 00:48:38.580
>> Will: Yep.

1042
00:48:38.580 --> 00:48:41.568
>> Sarah : so. So, yeah. And at the end

1043
00:48:41.584 --> 00:48:44.088
of it, it's just oz and Vic

1044
00:48:44.184 --> 00:48:46.880
enjoying some mixed flavored, slush

1045
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:47.624
puppies.

1046
00:48:47.792 --> 00:48:50.560
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And Dolly Parton,

1047
00:48:50.720 --> 00:48:53.536
nine to five. I love that. That was just

1048
00:48:53.568 --> 00:48:56.400
like, whatever that indian Alice is like.

1049
00:48:56.440 --> 00:48:59.126
Yeah, I. That was. I was like,

1050
00:48:59.158 --> 00:49:01.992
yeah, I am in for the ride. And also,

1051
00:49:02.056 --> 00:49:04.912
too, I know we hadn't talked about Oz and his relationship

1052
00:49:04.936 --> 00:49:07.768
with his mother and, you know, I guess with her dementia and stuff,

1053
00:49:07.824 --> 00:49:09.550
but, you know, there's, again, just,

1054
00:49:11.010 --> 00:49:13.938
you know, how, how all, you

1055
00:49:13.954 --> 00:49:16.922
know, the fact that he went by there during the

1056
00:49:16.946 --> 00:49:19.844
episode, seeing the relationship that he has with her,

1057
00:49:19.932 --> 00:49:22.876
they went in a direction with it that I

1058
00:49:22.908 --> 00:49:25.200
wasn't anticipating. So I was like,

1059
00:49:25.770 --> 00:49:28.016
So, yeah, so, you know, again, huh?

1060
00:49:28.168 --> 00:49:30.936
>> Sarah : How so? You said that it went in a direction you weren't

1061
00:49:30.968 --> 00:49:32.740
anticipating. How so?

1062
00:49:33.738 --> 00:49:36.634
>> Will: He. He. It was almost.

1063
00:49:36.682 --> 00:49:38.974
It was a, He was a very

1064
00:49:39.030 --> 00:49:41.742
caretaker esque role of

1065
00:49:41.934 --> 00:49:44.934
it where he wanted to make sure she had. She had

1066
00:49:44.950 --> 00:49:47.506
what she needed and making sure that she was safe.

1067
00:49:48.006 --> 00:49:50.878
instead. Instead of it being

1068
00:49:50.942 --> 00:49:53.106
a jacked up kind of

1069
00:49:53.486 --> 00:49:55.186
relationship between the two of them,

1070
00:49:58.486 --> 00:49:59.946
even though. Yeah, so.

1071
00:50:00.406 --> 00:50:02.266
>> Sarah : Right, right. Like,

1072
00:50:03.486 --> 00:50:06.262
they presented initially that kind

1073
00:50:06.294 --> 00:50:08.586
of dynamic and then they also,

1074
00:50:09.176 --> 00:50:10.956
showed that she's,

1075
00:50:11.350 --> 00:50:13.466
definitely his mom.

1076
00:50:13.766 --> 00:50:14.970
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

1077
00:50:15.138 --> 00:50:16.366
>> Sarah : Really as well.

1078
00:50:17.986 --> 00:50:20.930
And she. She probably passed down some traits

1079
00:50:20.978 --> 00:50:23.698
that weren't the best, for

1080
00:50:23.722 --> 00:50:25.646
sure. Like,

1081
00:50:26.586 --> 00:50:29.586
I think they did a good job of showing both sides

1082
00:50:29.626 --> 00:50:32.386
of that dynamic because what. What the

1083
00:50:32.426 --> 00:50:34.566
writers are doing right now

1084
00:50:35.186 --> 00:50:37.086
is carefully crafting

1085
00:50:37.746 --> 00:50:39.486
a non,

1086
00:50:40.036 --> 00:50:42.988
like, at the end of the day, this is penguin. This

1087
00:50:43.012 --> 00:50:45.868
is his show. So he. Technically

1088
00:50:45.972 --> 00:50:48.656
speaking. Technically speaking, is our hero.

1089
00:50:49.396 --> 00:50:51.096
Want him to succeed

1090
00:50:52.316 --> 00:50:54.936
even though he is a villain

1091
00:50:55.316 --> 00:50:58.196
in the Batman universe. Like,

1092
00:50:58.316 --> 00:51:01.096
so it's not anti hero,

1093
00:51:01.676 --> 00:51:04.616
but it's also not. You can't.

1094
00:51:05.446 --> 00:51:08.222
You can't. We can't have someone be the

1095
00:51:08.254 --> 00:51:10.998
focal point who has no

1096
00:51:11.102 --> 00:51:14.062
sympathetic or empathetic qualities. I mean, and

1097
00:51:14.094 --> 00:51:16.766
that's another reason why you have to have a character like

1098
00:51:16.806 --> 00:51:19.622
Vic, who some. A

1099
00:51:19.654 --> 00:51:22.542
kid who is like, doesn't

1100
00:51:22.574 --> 00:51:24.746
know what to do, lost his home,

1101
00:51:25.166 --> 00:51:27.878
clearly trying to get by

1102
00:51:27.982 --> 00:51:30.630
and just needs a chance. Like, like, you.

1103
00:51:30.798 --> 00:51:33.486
You can root for someone who's willing to take

1104
00:51:33.566 --> 00:51:36.336
a. Someone like that on and help him out.

1105
00:51:37.396 --> 00:51:40.268
So, so again, they're doing

1106
00:51:40.292 --> 00:51:43.212
a very good job. And this all goes back to

1107
00:51:43.404 --> 00:51:46.140
what I was saying before about the homages to, like,

1108
00:51:46.188 --> 00:51:49.036
classic gangster mobsters movies. I mean,

1109
00:51:49.196 --> 00:51:52.060
in real life, those are not the heroes,

1110
00:51:52.228 --> 00:51:55.196
but for purposes of story, they make

1111
00:51:55.236 --> 00:51:57.684
pretty interesting heroes in a weird way.

1112
00:51:57.820 --> 00:52:00.784
>> Will: Yeah. yeah, they do. I mean, why do you think Goodfellas and the

1113
00:52:00.808 --> 00:52:03.434
good and the Sopranos

1114
00:52:03.538 --> 00:52:04.902
and, you know,

1115
00:52:05.882 --> 00:52:08.730
untouchables, all those films. I mean, why Al Capone is

1116
00:52:08.746 --> 00:52:11.082
still such a cult hero today to this day.

1117
00:52:11.242 --> 00:52:13.982
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. Loyalty, family,

1118
00:52:14.482 --> 00:52:16.542
all of that. So.

1119
00:52:17.242 --> 00:52:18.642
So, yeah, I,

1120
00:52:19.732 --> 00:52:22.124
I'm very satisfied with this

1121
00:52:22.188 --> 00:52:24.688
start. overall,

1122
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.172
very well done.

1123
00:52:26.482 --> 00:52:27.098
>> Will: Me too.

1124
00:52:27.170 --> 00:52:27.782
>> Sarah : And.

1125
00:52:28.402 --> 00:52:31.210
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, because, like,

1126
00:52:31.266 --> 00:52:34.122
to your point, you know, to make it, you know, he's not a hero.

1127
00:52:34.162 --> 00:52:36.778
He's not anti hero, but also they're doing, they're

1128
00:52:36.810 --> 00:52:39.618
paving, they're they're laying the groundwork to

1129
00:52:39.650 --> 00:52:42.562
show why the Penguin is

1130
00:52:42.602 --> 00:52:45.298
one of Batman's arch

1131
00:52:45.330 --> 00:52:48.262
enemies, toughest enemies in his ropes gallery, too,

1132
00:52:49.122 --> 00:52:51.702
especially with story with, like, how

1133
00:52:52.302 --> 00:52:55.214
with, with the, using that ring, for example, and

1134
00:52:55.238 --> 00:52:58.134
how he, you know, came up with the plan to get

1135
00:52:58.158 --> 00:53:00.894
these families to fight again. It shows,

1136
00:53:00.958 --> 00:53:03.824
like, it's just showing that. That, you know, where this guy is

1137
00:53:03.848 --> 00:53:06.840
going and why Batman? Why he's such a formidable,

1138
00:53:06.936 --> 00:53:08.972
formal enemy against Batman. For Batman.

1139
00:53:10.312 --> 00:53:13.112
>> Sarah : Right. Well, on

1140
00:53:13.152 --> 00:53:15.800
that note, will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find

1141
00:53:15.856 --> 00:53:16.432
you?

1142
00:53:16.592 --> 00:53:19.280
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formally known as Twitter, at

1143
00:53:19.336 --> 00:53:20.144
will impulp

1144
00:53:20.168 --> 00:53:22.752
willmpolk.

1145
00:53:22.912 --> 00:53:25.448
>> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at SJ Belmont

1146
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:28.352
s j b e l m o n t m. Please follow our crew there

1147
00:53:28.392 --> 00:53:31.352
at Scene a Nerd friend of said Facebook? Follow us on Instagram and

1148
00:53:31.392 --> 00:53:33.864
threads at scene underscore n underscore

1149
00:53:33.928 --> 00:53:35.544
Nerd and visit our website,

1150
00:53:35.608 --> 00:53:38.448
www.sceneanerdpodcast.com. but

1151
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:41.424
most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts,

1152
00:53:41.448 --> 00:53:44.448
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Good night. Geek

1153
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:45.112
out. You're welcome.