Dune Prophecy Ep 4, Superman and Lois Series Finale, Star Wars and Marvel News.

>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Will Polk. How are you doing tonight, Will?

>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How you doing this Tuesday evening?

>> Sarah : I'm m. Doing good.

>> Will: That's good, that's good.

>> Sarah : Yeah, we're winding down in December.

>> Will: Yeah, I know. I was just looking at the, looking at the schedule and the calendar and I'm like, man, it's already gone. It's like, feels like the month is already, like, gone. I finally did get my Christmas decorations up though, so that was good.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. December has this weird way of starting and then you're just like, why are we already here? And then before, you know, it's over.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's like the 10th, but it feels like, but I feel so, like, far behind as far as like everything. yeah, and just, and just looking at like the day job as far as like, things that need to get done before the end of the year. And you know, we were just talking right before hit recording, you know, the office, Christmas parties and you know, just everything seems to be backloaded as far as like shows and movies and stuff. So it's just sort of like, man, this is like a lot of stuff is like packed and there's only a few weeks left of 2024.

>> Sarah : That's, it's, that's crazy.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and, and now. And you especially get that sense of the end of the year when the Golden Globes come out of the woodwork and drop nations. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm just going to call Spade a spade. Who else only loves to look at the golden gold denominations just to see what kind of weirdness they did with the whole category situation. Because let me tell you, I actually opened this and the very first thing I saw was best Motion Picture, musical or comedy. What the fuck is the substance doing there? I've heard about that movie. I've heard about that movie. I doubt anyone would say that that was either a musical or a comedy.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I, you know, the Golden Globes and I think we've had this conversation too.

>> Sarah : Every year.

>> Will: Every year. Like, and I know, I know the Globes now are done by a different organization because the, I guess the Hollywood Foreign Press had. They had a big scandal, I guess a couple years ago and stuff. So it's, you know, it's a new, it's a new regime running the thing, but they still have the same messed up categories.

>> Sarah : Right, right, right. The bear is one thing.

>> Sarah : The substance.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Okay. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, go and watch the trailer for it and then come back to me. M. Come back to us and let us know. Does that belong in that category? I just don't understand that. And I have watched Challengers. That's like the bare area where, okay, you want it to get recognition. It's not going to be at, beat out some of the stuff in the drama category. So you put it in there and allow that. And it's not that it's not funny, it's just. It's more about a sex.

>> Will: Maybe comedy includes dark comedy and maybe that's where the substance is. Like why it was nominated in that category.

>> Sarah : I'm sure. But I mean the way people were talking about that movie and how disturbing it is, I'm like, what? I'm making it horror. But, ah, there's no category for horror. So what are you gonna do?

>> Will: Yeah, so this is. Yeah, we'll just shoehorn it in there like you said.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Where did they put the Penguin? I thought they put that in a weird place as well.

>> Will: But so no, it actually was like in a proper category. So it was a limited, tv. TV series, along with. And it also is, going up against, Monsters, the, the Menendez story, and a couple other, shows as well. I can't remember. I don't have. I don't have the full list in front of me right now. But, I didn't know that that was where it was nominated and I couldn't. I had. Whenever I saw that Monsters was nominated, I did have to, you know, this is taking it to some of the events of the week, with the, United Healthcare, CEO that got murdered, this, that whole story, you know, they did apprehend a guy and you know, and people, y'all, you know, people who are like, sharing this, y'all need to go touch some grass. But that being said, the guy who is accused of murdering that healthcare CEO, and I saw it on social media and when I saw the photos, it, I was like, yeah, you're right, he looks like Dave Franco. And this is like, this is. And the story is completely Ryan. It's, you know, Ryan Murphy has his next plot and movie for American Crime Story already made for him with this. With this incident. So.

>> Sarah : Yeah, like five years from now.

>> Will: Yeah, five years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Technically, he's already working on his next American Crime Story with, Charlie Hunnam. So that's already been announced.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I'm very happy to see nobody wants it wants this gets some love, in. In some of the, categories. Trying to see if it got. I would assume, yeah, it did get nominated for best television series, musical or comedy. That is in fact a comedy. I actually you. I think it was the weekend before last. I did put it on randomly as some white noise in my house and just started rewatching the season. And it's good. It's just surprisingly delightful that show has been. Yeah. And then the usual suspects. Glad to see Katherine Hahn get some love for Agatha Long rightfully so.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : That's a very You know, I'm not usually one to speculate about the best performance by a female actor in a television series, musical or comedy, but that's a pretty, pretty,

>> Will: That's a stack category.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. That's more stacked than some of the male performance categories. So. Interesting. Well, yeah.

>> Will: And then. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. We got I guess House of the Dragon. The only thing I think they got nominated for was I guess Emma Darcy got it for, I guess best actress in a drama.

>> Sarah : Not surprised.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Not, not, not really based on just reactions because, you know, you know, like we've also talked about this and how they do tend to. The voters do tend to lean to. Okay, so what are people talking about? And as much as people did talk about House of Dragon wasn't as positive as the first season.

>> Will: No, no. When you look at the drama categories because you got Day of the Jackal, you got the diplomat, Mr. And Mrs. Smith, Shogun, which both. We watched both of those Slow Horses and Squid Game. Those were really the, I guess buzz worthy shows pretty much just this past television season.

>> Sarah : Okay, see right there you've. Thank you for bringing this up. They've already nominated Squid Game two. It's not even out.

>> Will: So I think it was the. Yeah, I think it's the original Squid game, if I recall.

>> Sarah : So that makes no sense because the original Squid Game came out like actually.

>> Will: No, you're right. You're right. It is season two. It is season two. You're right.

>> Sarah : Yes. I like was looking and I saw that and I was like. And I saw it didn't have a 2 next to it. And I was like, what? But that came out like three years ago. There's no way in hell. And then, and then I was. And then I saw something else later today and it said Squid Game two. And I'm like, it's not even fucking out.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : What. What is this? What is this? Like, I don't understand.

>> Will: It's. It's like. It's like. It's like Drake and, you know, accusing. You know, the Pale is, like, already in with Netflix and in. The Golden Globes are like, you know, give us a little bit of love here for your consideration.

>> Sarah : Well, it's like Squid Game blew up much. Many people's surprises. So much that they're like, oh, we missed out an opportunity. So we're just going to sneak them in because they're going to premiere at the end of this month.

>> Will: Yeah. So technically, that Just get it in.

>> Sarah : It makes no sense. It makes no sense. I don't. I don't understand. But then again, this is why we like to heckle the Golden Globe nominations, because there's always little things, all these weird things. and I don't know if this is a weird thing, but it's kind of, again, a, cycle. A system. yeah, that makes sense. with the news that Jeremy Allen White, is set to join the Star wars franchise in the upcoming Amanda Mandalorian and Grogu movie. Yeah, yeah. You know, give the guy a hit television show. Give the guy Calvin Klein ad and put him in anything you can.

>> Will: Yep. For sure. And the thing is, and it's not even a live action role, apparently he's going to be doing some voice work for, Rhoda the Hut. was Jabba's. Jabba's kid. so this is. Yeah. So it's free.

>> Sarah : Yeah. They're putting him to work just like they are their main actor with Pedro. Like Pedro and everything. And he gets away with it because most of the time, in that show, it's not him exactly.

>> Will: His Brendan Wayne walking around in that suit.

>> Sarah : Yeah, we'll see Star Wars. I don't know. I don't know about everyone. It's kind of like. Okay, is that, It's getting to the point where you're just like, okay, we'll see what happens.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Well, at least this one is actually. They are. You know, I have Scene people on soundstages, so at least we know that this actually is happening. Unlike a bunch of other Star wars stuff. So.

>> Sarah : Right.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : So, yeah, no one wants to pull out that list. All the canceled, broken promises of Star Wars.

>> Will: Exactly, exactly. But, yeah, but, you know, I had to give hat tip to, Jeff Schneider and Kristian Harlow. Jeff, was the one who broke this news. So, But, yeah, when I saw that, I was like, Okay. But, Yeah, but, you know, we'll. You know, I guess, as we were just saying, Jeremy's going to be popping up in a lot of things, and, you know, he's in a Disney family, so let's just. Let's put him in everything that we have as far as under the Disney umbrella.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the funny thing about Jeremy Allen White is I have. I watched Shameless. I watched the first, I want to say, up until, like, season six or five, and then I fell off. But, And. And he was a standout even then, like, as Lip. And I think it's a good thing that after Shameless ended, Which I'm not sure exactly, I want to say the early 2010s, it ended. I feel like there was a nice break so that when he returned in the Bear, now people aren't like, oh, there's Lip.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And it's funny. It's also interesting because both shows take place in Chicago. So, And I'm pretty sure he might even be from there. And I'm. I'm sure that there's ties between the shows because there's. There are some, like, weird similarities where I'm like, okay, I've never looked into it, but, it's just. It's just interesting now, like, for him to come into this potential mega superstar. And I say potential because sometimes what happens is there's a breakout star that then gets shoved down everyone's throats and put in some of the worst movies and television shows, and before you know it, it's like, no, the audience does not want them. Yeah, I'm not saying that will happen because, I mean, the guy is still the lead of the Bear. And despite what happened with season three, it's still a very good television show. So, I mean, it has at least one season left. And then you're just like, okay, it's never going to get back to the magic. Yeah. It's just interesting. It is, also in news, the big question or the big speculation is the potential that Chris Evans will also be returning to the MCU in the upcoming Doomsday film. Do I have that right?

>> Will: Yeah, it is Avengers Doomsday. That's correct. And I. Yeah. And I don't know if the Russo brothers have confirmed it yet or not, but, But that's. That is what is the. That was the other noteworthy thing that dropped, yesterday. And, And I guess the thing is, too, is, like, we know. You know, we know it won't be Johnny Storm because If. Spoiler alert. If you've watched Doomsday and, Deadpool and, Wolverine, you. You know why I'm saying that. if you haven't, then, you know, I just spoiled it for you. But I'm sorry, but,

>> Sarah : Did not think this through.

>> Will: Yeah, I said spoiler alert. So, you know, I gave fair warning. I didn't give enough pause, though. But anywho, the, I guess the thing is, will he return as old Cap? I mean, or. Yeah, that's one thing I could figure. I mean, if they, like, if he comes back as young Cap, then it's like, yeah, y'all just, like, really messed up. a great. Well, I mean, I guess at this point. I guess they don't care at this point because they're bringing back Robert Downey Jr. So I guess it doesn't really matter what.

>> Sarah : But not dark.

>> Will: Yeah, but. Yeah, I know, I know. But at this point, I don't know. I'm still. Whatever. Like last summer, whenever we saw that he was coming back in Doomsday as, Dr. Doom, whatever version if it's a Stark or not, or. And now this news of Chris Evans is sort of like, all right, I don't know. It's just the stunt casting of it just kind of just rubs me the wrong way.

>> Sarah : Right, right. Yeah. I saw this, and I was like, well, that kind of makes sense.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. And not even. And in my mind, it wasn't even questioned if he's coming back as Cap. I'm like, oh, so what bad guy is he going to play?

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Because that's. That's what you do.

>> Will: Yeah. I mean.

>> Sarah : Yeah, you make all of the heroes that have fallen or we've lost in the. In the first few phases, if they're going to come back, they come back as bad guys. You know what's really interesting is if we get, Scarlet. Scarlet Witch back. No, not Scarlet Witch.

>> Will: Scarlett Johansson.

>> Sarah : Yes.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. But she's still Black Widow because, Because she didn't. Her sacrifice. I don't know. They could do some very interesting things with that, with Black Widow. So I. Because it's a weird. It's a character in this whole, story that kind of, came in and then stuck the landing, only to get her own movie that kind of, like, filtered away. Granted, we got. We got our sister out of it, who's probably going to be a standout in the Thunderbolts next year, in my opinion. But I've only Scene the trailer. I've only Scene the trailer so, so I don't know. I don't know. It, it is what it is. Like, I, I find it so hard to speculate about anything anymore just because I'm like, ah, they're gonna do what they want. I'm not gonna cast it for them.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, exactly. They're gonna make. Yeah, yeah, they, you know, as soon as. Because at least, at least with, with Deadpool and Wolverine, going back to that spoilers, you know, disco listen, you know, at least whenever, with that, you know, the return in there was like, okay, fair. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, we get one bite at the apple with this. and I feel like they used it with. I feel like they used it with that, that film.

>> Sarah : not necessarily, because they did a very similar thing in no Way Home.

>> Will: True. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

>> Sarah : And, and no Way Home did it first and I, I mean I, I really did enjoy Deadpool and Wolverine, but no Way Home, they. What they managed to do and everyone knew, everyone knew in the back of my mind those guys were going to show up. But the execution from start to finish, I really enjoyed the whole, the whole movie. And I think it helped having already to see into the spider verse. And so I just, Like, technically they've done it twice.

>> Will: Yeah, you're right. You're right.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

>> Will: Ah, yeah, you're right. I mean, it is the Multiverse saga. So I mean, if you're going to do it, this is the time to do it. You're right.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, you have to. They definitely are. I think they're pinned against the wall where it's just like you started something, you gotta, you gotta, you got very thrown off course, unfortunately. Both story wise and big villain wise, big bad guy wise. And now you have to course correct. And so you gotta kind of finish what you started while at the same time getting us to a place where, where we can start, like we can bring in the X Men and you know, Fantastic Four is coming next year.

>> Will: That's true.

>> Sarah : And, I think I'm going to have a better idea of where we're going with these things after Fantastic Four. Not after Cap 4, not after Thunderbolts, but after Fantastic Four, because that's really the front. And I say this because like, that's the fresh new thing. I know it's been done before about four different times, but like for the mcu, this is our new family that we're being introduced to without any necessarily familiar faces, granted. I know.

>> Will: Yeah, I get your meaning. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Okay. Well, I think that is the perfect note to, leave off and wrap up with the series finale of Superman and Lois. we watched both the penultimate episode, which was episode nine, to Live and die again. And, the tenth episode, which is called. It went by so fast. It did go by so fast, except for the ending. And I'm just going to say this before Will says all of the nice things about this. It had. I should have clocked it. I didn't clock it. But I really want to know how long was the final monologue about the future and the epilogue. That in my opinion was really unnecessary and really boring and just did not hit me at all in my feels the way it should have and then the way it probably did for Will. And I just. I was just like this. Why. Why are we getting. Why, why is this getting the Lord of the Rings treatment right now with.

>> Will: The million endings, as you've always reminded our listeners? Because we're dead inside.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I know I'm dead inside. But it's just. I mean, the one that really. That I rolled my eyes out as soon as they're like, yeah, we can forgive in the afterlife. And you see Lex and I'm like, what. What the fuck is happening?

>> Will: Yeah, I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kid, but I'm just a kid when I say that. But you said you shared that before, and you're right. So this is, this is. This is one of those moments where, you know, sometimes we agree, sometimes we, we are 180 or degrees apart and all things, and this is, this is one of them, or 360, whatever it is. Because to me, this ending worked. It hit me into Phils. I mean, I, you know, it may have been a little bit dusty in the house whenever I was watching it. And, and I, I mean, to your point about the back half of the finale, I mean, it. I mean, I think both episodes were really solid to me. I mean, it just really. Because I think it's. For me, it really captured what was so special about this iteration of Superman. And I thought about this overall, like, why both Superman and Lois and Kryptonite, overall? I mean, I know we, you know, there's been ups and downs with, with each show. I mean, there's no show that's like, perfect. But overall, I think you and I both have agreed that the reason why both those shows worked was because, you know, they took a character like Superman and then they put their own unique. It took it. You know, it took us on a different journey and A different spin on the Superman lore. and with this. And with this finale, for me, it worked because you took a character like Superman who's been virtually indestructible and you. And the thing that they've always done from. From. To get with this show is making him m. Relatable and make, you know, about making him a dad, making him a family man. You know, of course, in this season, making him, you know, mortal as far as, you, know, with the heart trans. Literally getting his heart ripped out and having to do the transplant with. With Sam. And it just really was a real mortality tell on this character and him having to. In him living out his days.

>> Will: And of course. And a very relatable thing that we all have to deal with, which is just the passage of time and life and family and growth and forgiveness with Lex and not holding grudges. All those elements, to me worked and was really fitting for what they did with this character.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : It was funny to see that, John Henry and Lana could actually appear in an episode together.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and that was very last episode where we finally saw them share the screen together. Fast Forward a good 20 minutes, and then suddenly they're getting married, like a year later.

>> Will: Yeah, well, I guess. I guess. I guess John Henry getting. Almost getting killed, I guess, because I know. I know the way they set. When they finally did get set up and they're actually out on a date, they were like, have. Talking, about breaking things off. And then of course, you know, then of course the whole fight happens and stuff. So. Yeah, yeah, that. That was a bit rushed. But, But, you know. But yeah, but, you know, but at the end of the day, they were able to, you know, I guess having all the characters, you know, who basically all the people come back for the finale.

>> Sarah : So many people come back.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. They were able to close out everybody's stories.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what. That's what finales are for. and it's. I just poke fun at it because they closed out all of these stories. But looking back at the entire season of this, last season, the stories, like, it was very much just heavy. Clark and Lois, as it should be, and the siblings. And it felt less like an ensemble as in previous seasons. So for it to get the last few episodes and suddenly the last one where it's like, oh, yeah, we have all of these characters. I mean, I felt like they even gave Jordan and, Jonathan friends that we hadn't Scene maybe since the first season, and I'm like, wow, why do. Why can't we see Nat more? What's going on? So. So. And I know there was budget cuts and this is the final season, and I understand all of that, but it's. I still need to poke fun at it because it's kind of humorous.

>> Will: yeah, yeah. I mean, it was a bit. I will agree. You know, it was a bit, jarring. You know, just to all of a sudden everything that, like. Well, you know, to the example that you shared with. With John Henry and Lana, I mean, that was, You know, we've. They talked about it all throughout the season. And then, you know, and then finally we do get a date. And then we finally do get a date. They're like, talking about breaking it off. So it's just like, so, you know, so from that regard, it did feel a little bit unearned, as far as, you know, one year later, they are married. But especially given that it seemed like a traumatic incident that like, caused them to reevaluate things, to. To be able to, Where they. I guess they did manage to patch things up. And. And then, of course there's Christy and Kyle. And you know, of course where we. Where we left off with them was, you know, Clark and Lois, you know, giving them a loan to, like, you know, get their dream home. And then now they're only having first kid, but they got number two on the way. So, I mean, there were a lot of things that were. That did feel rushed. I mean, I will. I will grant you that, that, That, Because of budget cuts and all those kind of things, they. It was one of those things I had to do. because, you know, just. Just reality of what, you know, what, what the cards they were dealt for this season.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Did. I can't remember the Flash series finale? Did we watch Iris and Barry grow old?

>> Will: you know, the Flash season finale honestly was forgettable. I. Only thing I remember, the only thing I remember from the finale think, Barry did have the same type of monologue. And I think we did see the extended Flash family. As far as, like, other characters. I think, like, I think they have their version of, What was his name? Max Mercury. and the only reason why I just remember that's because I just remember Max from the comic book. But, but this. This finale was this. This finale will actually stick with me because I think. I just felt. I think part of it was. I'm more honestly, by the time with this show I was. I'm a lot more invested in the characters now. you know, I never, you know, with the Flash, I just got to the place where I just didn't care.

>> Sarah : Oh, yeah, I know. I was there.

>> Will: Yeah. And we both were there. But this show, I. I still, You know, I still cared. I mean, and I feel like. About these characters, and I think that's why it hit. And I think also just, you know, whenever. You know, a lot of the moments. For example, I think the ending with Lois and Clark and the monologue and stuff did feel earned, so. Whereas the Flash, I just felt like whatever they did, I was just like. I was just a burnout with the show. It's, like, ended already. Take it out of his misery.

>> Sarah : I think you also felt. I think there was also a feeling with the Flash where. Because what. It had eight seasons. Nine seasons.

>> Will: Nine, seasons.

>> Sarah : Nine seasons. We. We had Scene everything. They had done everything. So it was rinse, wash, repeat. Even with monologues, there were probably better monologues, like the first. The season finale, first season, iconic like that. That is how you end the season. Arguably, that should be how you ended a series, but. But because of that. So I think, to your point, this being four seasons, the last one is like the shortest season. They. They didn't have a lot of time to rinse, recycle, repeat, and all of that. So. So, yeah, every, it did. From that perspective, it is fair to say that it was earned and it wasn't tiresome. And like, we have already heard that way back in season two. so. And I do remember the Arrow series finale, mainly because it was a bit like they jumped this shark so much in that last season. Yeah. By the time the series finale aired, I was just like, I'm just watching this just so that I can. I can make sure what I think will happen, happen. And, And it kind of did. And it was a very sweet scene, even though, like. Like, they. They did a very much like, Oliver had to die and m. But then he gets reunited with Felicity in the afterlife, and it's just. It's cute and it is memorable, but I don't think for the right reasons.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the other thing too, as we. As we. Because we are really closing the chapter on the cw, dctv, with the Indiana Superman and Lois. And, you know, as we think back to the Arrowverse itself and, you know, and this show did in some ways, like. And we thought about it when it first started, it was a mature Version of like this is Arrowverse 2.0 or CWM. At that point, it was like CW verse. They didn't even call it Arrowverse anymore. And it had a distinct tone and flavor. So I think that also, you know, made it between that and also, even though it probably had another. It could have probably had another season in it, I think ending it with this story and how they, you know, was, you know, they. They went into this season knowing that it was the last and they were able to like, really craft a story that really made sense for. For. For the world that they built over the previous, you know, over the previous three seasons. And really, you know, season three and four really just cut. You know, they. They were really just one continuous thing almost. you know, especially given that they had a reduced episode count with the fourth and final season.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, it. I agree that. I don't agree. I. You always say that, but I'm like, I don't. I never agree with that. It. This does feel like a CW show to me. it always has. It definitely there are some episodes, but I think overall the, the, the quantity of episodes, like the number of times when I've complained about the teenager storylines and mainly Sarah's storyline.

>> Will: Yeah, true.

>> Sarah : I got so upset, that I'm just like, oh, it so leans into cw. But then it has these other things and these other episodes that are stand out. also known as the episode with miscarriage in season one. Iconic. Very memorable. And so I think silver lining of the fact that it probably did have at least one or two seasons. I mean, arguably it could have gone on for nine seasons. I mean, small tale went on forever. So, so it. But because it got to bow, it has to bow out early. It was able to not fall into those, traps that we've Scene other shows, at this caliber fall into because it just goes on way too long and that you. You lose sight. You lose sight of what you started. and then you jump the shark or you just. You just kind of meander and no one likes a meandering TV show.

>> Will: Definitely not. Definitely not.

>> Sarah : So. So it was fun. Cw, it, very, very kind of, kind of sad. But it's bittersweet. Like, it had to end.

>> Will: Yeah, it had to. At least they, you know, they, you know, they were, they, they were. Like I said earlier, they gave them the, the turn. You know, they knew what they were facing and they were able to craft a story to, to give these characters a proper send off instead of, And I think they learned from, like, from the examples that we just shared. I think they learned what not to do with. With, with. With the send off. At least. I mean, at least for me. It is. It worked. I hadn't forgot. I honestly, I've forgotten about the, How the Arrow Arrow final episode happened there with the, them joining. I mean, I remember them joining Afterlife, but, some of the particulars of that final season. You're right, they did jump to short quite a bit.

>> Sarah : I kind of remember also because they play, at some point. I think it's in the series finale, they play a song that during the midseason finale, I used to craft a, fan video.

>> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember. Yeah.

>> Sarah : And I still have comments on that one that says, like you predicted.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : but I can't. I'm not sure. I might be getting it confused with the season finale or when. When Felicity left. Because that was another weird thing about the last season. Like, once the actors start leaving, then, you know, the show needs to wrap it up because we started with a core group and the core group should stay till the end. I mean, Flash had that all over the place and thankfully Superman and Lois never got to that point, but. Well, that is a wrap on cw. Arrowverse. Superman.

>> Will: Yeah. It's like closing a chapter on Scene N Nerd here too. It's like that's. This is like what got us started was these shows. Maybe that's. Maybe. Maybe that was kind of like also like that. That came into my. My mind whenever I was watching this, the finale there. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : and that leads us to dune prophecy, season one, episode four, twice born. Okay, this is the longest IMDb.

>> Will: Oh, gosh. Yeah.

>> Sarah : I'm just gonna say, because there arguably there is a bunch of different stuff that happens in this episode. so it says after nearly all the acolytes have the same nightmare, Tula attempts to understand the origins of their disturbing dreams. Meanwhile, on the eve of the Great Lanzard, Meaning Valia sets her plan in motion to redeem house Harkonnen. Yanez confronts her power, her father, about rumors surrounding Desmond and Kieran conspires to advance a rebel attack that the Sisterhood must try to throw. Yeah, yeah, that definitely summarizes. And yet at the same time, does not spoil or any of the. Especially the end. And we'll get to the end. The what the fuck moment I had.

>> Will: there's always one of those episodes.

>> Sarah : You know, I mean, we've. We've talked about the show now, I. I can't believe it's only the fourth episode. There's something about this show that I feel like we've been. We've been on this path longer. And so when I sat down on Sunday, I was like, this is only the fourth episode.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Well, this IMDb summary pretty much captures, what I felt after watching the episode. And I was, like, trying to figure out, like, okay, it was a lot packed into this. So much packed into it to the point where I was just like, I just felt it was, like, overstuffed that they. And it didn't leave. Didn't leave room for things to really marinate. And within the season or the episode, it was just like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And also, you're right, there was definitely the what the fuck moment. But at the same time, I was kind of like, I don't know, it's just the show. I mean, I like watching it, but, I'm also feeling kind, It also just leaves me cold after I finish watching it.

>> Sarah : Yes, yes. And that goes back to what we were talking about last week. There's no real protagonists. There's no one, like, you're really rooting for because you're still not entirely sure what the stakes are, and you're not entirely sure, like, they've managed to show you so many perspectives that you're just like, okay, well, now that I understand all these perspectives, I'm still like, everyone's just there.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : It is. I think you put it correctly. Like, it leaves you with a cold because, like, you were saying, it was overstuffed. And when I reflect back on the episode, it's this, ah, weird. It has a very strange pace. And I say that about all of. All the past four episodes of where stuff like mechanics are moving, plots are moving, conspiring is happening, yet simultaneously, it feels slow.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Like, it's this very weird, weird thing where I'm like, I can. I don't understand why the show feels slow yet there's so much politicking happening. And so it'll be interesting to see if in the next few weeks we can really identify what's the cause of that. but that being said, I do want to start with Tula and the acolytes.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Because I think that's the best way to tackle this episode and talk about storylines, because thankfully, there are kind of isolated to an extent. and I just have to say, with the acolytes and the sisterhood, I still think One of the strengths is how horrific. Like, they lean into the horror. And I don't like horror, but it makes sense. And there's this thematic undertone of tension that they've been able to get. Like, when you see the dreams, I forget how long it took me to realize it was a dream. but what. I did not. For some reason, I did not make. I'm gonna admit this, so nobody make fun of me, Will. but I did not make the connection with how they kill themselves in the dream, with how Dorit was murdered.

>> Will: Oh, m. Yeah.

>> Sarah : it took me. It took me until they pointed that out for, like. Oh, yeah, that's.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : She's still doing stuff.

>> Will: She is. Yeah. And I think you're. And I'm glad you started our discussion with some of the plot points with. With the strong. Why, quite frankly, the strongest part of this episode. I. And honestly, I'm feeling like Tool is the strongest character other than Desmond in this series.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah.

>> Will: because, I mean, she's just. She. She's just a fascinating character. You know, she. She really care, you know, volume. You can kind of see, you know, see her plans and stuff of coming a mile away. Tula with her things that she's doing here with the. You know, trying to get Lila, you know, with the machine, with the thinking machine. And. And like you said, with. With this. With this session, trying to, like, you know, you know, do this there. Do the session to, like, really get the. The acolytes to. To get all of them together, and they do this artwork, pick up the charcoal and start doing all that kind of stuff. I mean, that was just like. You're right. They leaned into that. They lean into the horror of it, and it just. It just. And it. It really sets up things so. So well, especially as far as this philosophical thing. I know whenever we were, you know, chatting a little bit last night or night before. But, at least I made the point about the myth m. The mystical versus the technology. And this really dives into that. That mystical realm of Dune that, you know, so many people talk about and that. And so, yeah. So, you know, to your point, whenever we realize that, you know, this is what she's seeing as far as, you know, the original goal was to see what Raquel's message was, but in doing so, now they're actually, you know, seeing what the, red. I think, what. You know, what she and her acolytes are really trying to, like, you know, what they were envisioning in that. In the Agony there.

>> Sarah : Well, it's. I think. I think it's both. I don't think it's one or the other because I don't think Doretta has complete control over either. Like, she's been able. She found this, this tunnel or this. This communication that they, like, essentially opened a door. And she's like, I'm just gonna leave a crack. Okay, Because. Because there's other secrets and other history and facts that have to get out there so I can really, tamper the waters with the acolytes.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Well, simultaneously they are getting closer because by the end of this whole, Let me put you under and you draw your dream sequence A, they all ended up at the same point, which is a dark figure. It's pretty much the. What's inside of the warm. And it's two blue eyes.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and then there's a noise that for a moment, and I know this isn't right, but for a moment there's like this interesting sound design that's used that almost feels like machinery. And so it's like, okay, is that a thinking device? Like, are they one in and of the same? So the mystery of this reckoning, you would think it would be kind of annoying, but it is like, okay, so what's really going on here and how is it all connected, especially with what's going on with Desmond and as we learn, what's going on with Theodosia. so. And then to your point, like, all of that mysticism. M m. Only then to go back at the end of the episode for Tula, to feel like, okay, like I said last week, Leela, you have to be the Twice Born. You have to be. And then they end it with another. Or they leave. End the storyline with another horror. Horror moment where I was just like. Because she's in a dream. And as soon as I saw the stand pouring, I was like, okay, this is a dream. It's a dream. Wake up. Wake up. I don't like being here.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : But then when she woke up, I didn't like it either. Because you see, you see the. The, The. The whole thing that Lila was in was cracked open and you don't know where she is. And then they. They like, you go to a dark screen and I'm like. I'm like, I'm not going to look. I'm not going to look because you're going to do a jump scare, you're going to do. But I. I don't know. And now Lil is awake. So what does that mean? And, yeah, but also.

>> Will: Yeah, and I mentioned that Val, you know, again, it has, you know, what? She, you know, she's trying to control things back, and we'll get to, what's going on the Capitol world soon. But, you know. But Tula also, you know, they both are in their scheming, in their own way. They're. Whenever. You know, with Tula in this situation with the acolytes, I mean, she, you know, she. She, you know, lost control of what, you know, what she was trying to do, and, you know, the other sister was like, pull them out of it. Pull out of it. Because she, you know, again, So they're both flounder, you know, so, yes, she has her mission as far as trying to get what the Reckoning is about and trying to, you know, learn what the premonitions are that, you know, for. For the sisterhood. But at the same time, she's also still. You know, we've seen her flounder, now. You know, now twice with. With the. Whenever she starts, you know, dipping her toe in this realm. I mean, the first was, you know, having Lila, you know, carrying out the mission of Lila in the agony, and then now this. So it's just. So, again, it's just.

>> Sarah : Yeah, to your point, she flounders when she is pushed or she tells herself she's doing something because it's what her sister would do.

>> Will: Exactly. Yeah.

>> Sarah : And. And that's. That's really her downfall. It's like you. I. We don't know for sure how much Viola knew about the plan to get revenge for Griffin. We don't. We don't really know, but she was able to accomplish that. And it's. Yet she's still trying to prove herself to her sister. And honestly, the decisions that she makes, where she flounders the most, it's not the sisterhood. It's mainly to protect her sister, because it's not Tula. It's not. No one else had any hand in Doretta's death except for Valya. So it's very, I like that the sisters are separated. and you see how much, like that sibling nature of them. It's not a rivalry, which I applaud the writers for. It's not a rivalry, which we've Scene 10,000 times. It's more of like, I. I am so tethered to you that I will follow you to hell.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. Granted, we. We've Scene the rest of the Harkonnen So I can't necessarily fault Tula for being like, you're my life raft. Which man. And. And I. I will say to. To go into more of Valia stuff, that I know in the past I've questioned about this whole. Why is it the Harkened. And above all. And I think they proved it to me in this episode, that no for Valya after Griffin was avenged for it very much, it's the sisterhood above all. She could care less. And that's why they have not had a true star for so long.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : While simultaneously she has to go back to them because with her political power, she, has to utilize them to get her and the sisterhood to where she wants it to be, which is like. To restore that which was lost. So I understand more now. A lot of the questions I had from last week I felt like were a little bit more answered in terms of her and what she's doing, in this episode.

>> Will: Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. I mean, she. Yeah. I mean, it's basically. You know. And even the uncle calls her out on some of those kind of things too.

>> Sarah : Right.

>> Will: So. Yeah. So, yeah. So you. The. The questions were answered. But again, I think, she, Really. But Identity. Yeah. The end of the day, though, she could care less about her family. You're right. Sisterhood above all. And it was also. And she's just. You're right. She's just using the fam. You know, this is so transactional just to get to be able to seize the sisterhoods in the place in. You know, because she's lost her influence. Because after what happened, you know, she got expelled from the castle, so she's trying to figure out ways to get back into. Back into the Imperium's good graces.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Because it's all about power. And there's even a line in this episode that when you grant. And I think it's in. It's. I think it's related to Korean, but it's very much applicable to viola and to what we're seeing occur. You give someone so much power. Singular person. Their only actions after that are, how do I preserve.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : It's that. That's what it is. It's just, how do I preserve this? How do I protect this? It's not. It's. It's. I think it was a very, astute observation, and I think it. I liked how it applied to a few different characters that we were seeing, in this episode. And, And. And, you know, by the End of it. She. She, She. She kills another one.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Kill her uncle.

>> Will: Very, very, like. Yeah, very like to, like, just no source. Yeah. The sound. The sound design with the coughing and the gag eating, you know, it's just like I was, like, retching, like, I was sitting there watching it because it was just so, like, so, like. Like stomach turning watching it. So many levels.

>> Sarah : Right.

>> Will: So I guess so. Yeah. I did say that, show leaves me cold. But like I said, there. There are moments that was one of the. What the fuck? Moments, even though there was a much bigger one, at the end.

>> Sarah : Yeah. I also, like, I didn't copy this word for word, but she pretty much tells Harrow her nephew. The past has branded us, but the future can redefine us. And you are the future of this house. I just. I. It's. Every time I say Valia is now sisterhood or, above all, she still holds a torch for the parking. And whether it's the downfall of her family or her place in her own family, like, it's. I think it's so nuanced. And fortunately, at the same time, I feel like they just have not found a way to get it to the point where viewers can, like, have real empathy because we still don't really understand what the fuck happened.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Right. And it's. It's like this weird thing where it's been a while since I've struggled with this in a TV show where I want to like you more, I want to empathize with you more, I want to understand you more as a character, but for some reason, the writers don't want to tell us the history. That doesn't. That doesn't help me.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : it's not, like, very important in this sense.

>> Will: Yeah, it's like, you know, like I think you said last week with, you know, we were talking about how, at least with, like, for example, Penguin.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: You could. Like, even though you knew he was just a bad dude, but somehow you still just rooted for Oswald here. It's just like, I can't. I just can't root for Valia. I just can't.

>> Sarah : Yeah, because at the end of the day, you don't understand. You. You can't believe her. you can't trust her.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Not. Not in the same way that you can't trust Oz, but with Valya, you can't trust her because she has a claim that, as a viewer, you have yet to validate. So if we were to, know that. Yeah, we can see why she thinks it's a lie that caused her outcast, but in reality, it's the truth. Then we could at least be like, okay, I understand, but we have nothing. We're not really sure what that. What the chain of events were surrounding that whole incident that caused the Harkonnen family to become outcast. And because it's so pivotal and it feels very nuanced for this character, that's why it's causing such harm to the overall show itself. Because I think about Game of Thrones and House of Dragon. House of Dragon. We. We entered the house. We were shown a brief click, clip about how Viserys came to power. And then they just. They just planted seeds. Sprinklings of, like, his relationship with Damon, his relationship with his daughter, how he. How he killed his wife. In a way.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Like. And then the history kind of was speckled throughout the season. But. And I'm thinking about it, it didn't. The history didn't seem as. As important as the events of current day did in that show where here, because of this torch that Valia is carrying, it feels so important for her character that with us not having it, it feels incomplete.

>> Will: There you go. That. Bingo. That's. That's what's missing in the show. I mean, they're trying to do the. You're right. I mean, they're trying to do the House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones. Kind of political, you know, history and all that. You know, fill in the. Fill in the rest. But you nailed it. I mean, I think that's. That's the. That's the missing element that's making it hard to connect.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And, that. That brings us to Desmond Hart. I still like Desmond. his character just always seems like he's high. Seems high. And some very weird things happen. I do. Like, he has a very weird relationship with the emperor. And I'm not sure what they're trying to insinuate, but, we see him, and he's going. He's ripping out pages of the books that the true Sayer left, Kasha left behind. And Corrino, comes to him with seeking guidance because pretty much everyone knows that he was involved in Pruitt's death. I mean, call and I. And I like Desmond's line of the time to snuff a fire out is when a fool lights a match, not when your house burns down.

>> Will: That was a great lot.

>> Sarah : Yeah. It's kind of like, dude, we've started this. Okay. I don't know why you're so not up to the challenge. Which I do appreciate how they've managed to continue to show us the differences between, the Emperor and the Empress and just their interactions with Desmond.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Speaks volumes.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: Everything we need to know about, you know, about why Corino is just. Yeah. Feckless. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. And I mean, as I was. Were you surprised when. When Empress Natalia was just like, oh, Desmond. That was me. Yeah.

>> Will: Wasn't at all. I was like, okay. Yeah. Makes. Yeah. That saw that coming a mile away.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciated how she also explained it. There's. I want to understand more about her and this weird rivalry she has with the sister sisterhood, because, my God, she knows their tactics.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : She knows them. so did she study and what. Like, I know they were involved in the arrangement of her marriage, and so there's a story there, for sure. very interesting. what's not interesting to me, and in my opinion, the weakest part of these episodes and this show so far is every. Every time Kieran and Yanez are on the screen.

>> Will: Thank you. M. Okay, See, even though we had our disagreement with Superman and lois, we are 100%. I have my notes. The weakest link is, is that story.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: And that. And that character. I mean, she just basically comes there and has a little, you know, fit about, you know, during the. During. During breakfast. And I was just like. That scene was completely pointless. I just, like, really. I mean,

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. It. She started so strong.

>> Will: Exactly. That's why I'm so disappointed, because I was like, this is going to be a very interesting character now. It's just like, they've put her.

>> Sarah : Into this mode of being a brat and disagreeing and. And then going to kiss her boyfriend. Not boyfriend. And it's just. I don't know. They put her in a very stereotypical role.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I still don't know what they're doing with Constantine. I haven't figured that out at all.

>> Will: Yeah. He's just there just to be just the sulky brother. I mean, it's just. Yeah. But, that. That was definitely the weakest points of the episode this week, for sure.

>> Sarah : Yeah. It just. When they're on screen together, it turns into I'll be at a CW show.

>> Will: Exactly.

>> Sarah : I'm just like, this doesn't. It doesn't feel like the same thing. I have been watching with the adults. Why are we at the children's table all of a sudden? I don't really care about this, and I don't really buy their Affection for one another or anything. So. Yeah, I,

>> Will: Mean, to your point. Yeah, there was exposition about. About him. You know, the whole rescue and, you know, she was kidnapped and stuff. But again, they were telling. But it was just. Again, the telling again of things in history. But it's just. It's just like a telling of the lie from, you know, with the Atreides and the Harkonnens from the beginning. It's just like, okay, okay, fine.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. I don't. I don't know. With that and. And the big. The big event of this episode was the, council meeting and where we saw this plot. and Valia views it as an opportunity for her to get in good faith with, M. Get it back into the good graces of ever by bringing forward Kieran and his rebels for using, Using, the technology. The forbidden technology, as they call it. But. But then Desmond shows up and pulls that plan right out from under her.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : And then. And then he gets approval to use his powers. And so we not only have now Scene a kid and a woman die from burning the inside out, but now a few other people.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. That one dude, he was just like.

>> Sarah : Never gets easier.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He, ripped it. Yeah, right there. And they were like, okay. How gruesome can we get? Yeah, we'll show you. Yeah.

>> Sarah : I was like, I don't. I don't need it. The sounds were doing enough for me. Like, I don't need to see this. This is going on a bit too long. and his one. The one annoying thing that happens that had to happen is he leaves behind a blood sample that Valia can then take and then learn more about her enemy, which is foreshadowed in a previous scene. but I. I just liked how. I liked a lot of the mechanics of the whole, whole council meeting because there were a lot of players, a lot of different plot points that they had set up, coming together, getting a bit resolved, but also just like, the tension rose and then they resolved it. But now there's new consequences to lead us into the final two episodes of the season. but, Will, unless you have anything to say about the council meeting, this just brings us to the. What the fuck moment at the end.

>> Will: No, we. I think we've covered it well.

>> Sarah : Okay, so, Theodosia. So they kind of. They allude to something in the beginning, or fairly early on about because she questions value. Why did you take me with her? With you? And. And it's like, well, you know, why? And I'm sitting there like, nope, I don't. But it's a good space where they don't tell you anything, so you don't know. But it's far enough removed where you kind of forget about it. And then at the end, after Valya kills yet another family member, she looks up and she sees Griffin. And, I'm totally on board with like, oh, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. He killed the uncle. He a brother. Yep. This is why Valya is the way she is. so. And they have a sweet moment, and then the conversation is weird because it's like, I've pushed you too far. And. And then it's. And she says the name Theo, and I'm just like, what? Who's Theo? Yeah, I took me into. We actually saw the face for me to be like, oh, she's a shave sister. Okay. Because I was like, you got another brother who you inadvertently got killed in this whole dream. I was like, who's Theo? Why am I so. But here's why. It was a what the fuck moment. It wasn't that, oh, she's a shape sister. I feel like there. Because she picked something up, and the whole line about, have I pushed you too far? So in my mind, I'm like, wait a second. So was Theodosia undercover at the council meeting? And if so, as who M. And, like, was she Kieran? And then my mind really starts to go, because there they again. I think the sound design of this show needs to get awarded, because you start to hear, like, someone being suffocated and struggling to come out. Like, there's whoever she took over and is standing in the place. They make it come off like that person is still inside, yet they're struggling, and they can't get out. It's a really intense sound that is being made. so I just. I just was like, what the fuck? What am I supposed to understand from this? And what is happening right now? Because Theodosia also is leaving, which tells me. Okay, so has she not yet taken the place of, whoever. Like, I want to say it's Kieran.

>> Will: Yeah. Because, I mean, I know. You know, because. Because the way the whole scene plays out, you know, she shows up as Griffith, and then as, we go, you know, they. They go to the adjoining room, and he. You know, shape shifting is. They're starting to transform into somebody else.

>> Sarah : Right, Right. But we don't know who.

>> Will: And Face the Black.

>> Sarah : So, you know, my. Because there's a scene right before the council meeting between Constantine and his Father. And it's very different than any other scene we've Scene between them in previous. It almost feels like maybe. Maybe that's who she's taking the place of.

>> Will: Maybe, maybe. But I know they like set it up before or maybe You know, I don't know if it happened before. I mean, I know because you know, they. They too. As you noted earlier. You know, there was the line about. Said that. That she has some gifts. So I don't know if. If. If. If she. If. If That h. You know, you could read it one way or you could read it both ways. You could be like, I need you to do it now and then, you know. And you know, she did it earlier.

>> Sarah : No, no, no, it. It definitely she's done it. Like that was the whole reason why Valia picture to come with her. Because m. She knew and has Scene her do this.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. So you're right. I mean, I guess. Yeah. So I think your interpretation is right. I mean I think you. She has done it before and you know, now Vi is going to use her again for whatever purpose that we'll. I guess we'll find out the next week or so.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And it's also leaving out the questions of well, why is she able to do this? And I feel like there's implications that comes from the spice because the way the power materializes is very similar to what we've Scene Desmond do. So there's. They managed to expand upon like it's not a It's not a one off that Desmond is. Has this ability. And also what we learn about Desmond's ability is there are consequences because he has all of these lashing on his back for is implied every time he uses this. And we see the pain which just tells me like, I don't know like maybe she also doesn't. Theodosia is against using this gift, because in. In the end the longer she's pursuing this Persona, the more likely that other person will die or something.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's Will Polk. Yeah. Who knows. But. But yeah, but it definitely clearly like Desmond and. And others, you know, and also you know, we. We also see like Lila as far as whatever, you know, she does emerge from the tank, back on wall there. There is a consequence of you know, being this, I guess twice born, you know, once in blood, once in spice. And so yeah, so maybe we'll, you know, we, you know, maybe that's part of it too. It's just like before Theodosia is like, you know, it just exacts such a toll on her, to use his power and you know, and I guess. And it's. Overall, I mean, I think this, you know, the titled episode does like, you know, really speak to, you know, to the Twice Born is really referenced to many characters within, within this, within this story. So.

>> Sarah : Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I mean, in a way, both, Valia and Tula were, were born again when they joined the sisterhood. So like, like, I really enjoy that title. the more we talk about this episode, I can see a lot more about the fuller picture, despite the weaknesses we've, we've discussed and the boldness of it all. but we'll see. They, they got, they got two more hours and then some minutes to really, to really lock it up and, and I'm not again, I'm not mad at this at all. So far. definitely room for improvement, but, not mad, not disappointed. So on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners what, where they can find you.

>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will M. Polk W I L L M P O.

>> Sarah : L K. And you can find me there too at SJ Belmont. SJ B L M O N T. Please follow our crew on Twitter @seenanerd, falls on blueskynanerd, friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene Underscore N, underscore Nerd and Visit our website www.uhsceneanerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.

>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Will Polk. How are you doing tonight, Will?

>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How you doing this Tuesday evening?

>> Sarah : I'm m. Doing good.

>> Will: That's good, that's good.

>> Sarah : Yeah, we're winding down in December.

>> Will: Yeah, I know. I was just looking at the, looking at the schedule and the calendar and I'm like, man, it's already gone. It's like, feels like the month is already, like, gone. I finally did get my Christmas decorations up though, so that was good.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. December has this weird way of starting and then you're just like, why are we already here? And then before, you know, it's over.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's like the 10th, but it feels like, but I feel so, like, far behind as far as like everything. yeah, and just, and just looking at like the day job as far as like, things that need to get done before the end of the year. And you know, we were just talking right before hit recording, you know, the office, Christmas parties and you know, just everything seems to be backloaded as far as like shows and movies and stuff. So it's just sort of like, man, this is like a lot of stuff is like packed and there's only a few weeks left of 2024.

>> Sarah : That's, it's, that's crazy.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and, and now. And you especially get that sense of the end of the year when the Golden Globes come out of the woodwork and drop nations. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm just going to call Spade a spade. Who else only loves to look at the golden gold denominations just to see what kind of weirdness they did with the whole category situation. Because let me tell you, I actually opened this and the very first thing I saw was best Motion Picture, musical or comedy. What the fuck is the substance doing there? I've heard about that movie. I've heard about that movie. I doubt anyone would say that that was either a musical or a comedy.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I, you know, the Golden Globes and I think we've had this conversation too.

>> Sarah : Every year.

>> Will: Every year. Like, and I know, I know the Globes now are done by a different organization because the, I guess the Hollywood Foreign Press had. They had a big scandal, I guess a couple years ago and stuff. So it's, you know, it's a new, it's a new regime running the thing, but they still have the same messed up categories.

>> Sarah : Right, right, right. The bear is one thing.

>> Sarah : The substance.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Okay. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, go and watch the trailer for it and then come back to me. M. Come back to us and let us know. Does that belong in that category? I just don't understand that. And I have watched Challengers. That's like the bare area where, okay, you want it to get recognition. It's not going to be at, beat out some of the stuff in the drama category. So you put it in there and allow that. And it's not that it's not funny, it's just. It's more about a sex.

>> Will: Maybe comedy includes dark comedy and maybe that's where the substance is. Like why it was nominated in that category.

>> Sarah : I'm sure. But I mean the way people were talking about that movie and how disturbing it is, I'm like, what? I'm making it horror. But, ah, there's no category for horror. So what are you gonna do?

>> Will: Yeah, so this is. Yeah, we'll just shoehorn it in there like you said.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Where did they put the Penguin? I thought they put that in a weird place as well.

>> Will: But so no, it actually was like in a proper category. So it was a limited, tv. TV series, along with. And it also is, going up against, Monsters, the, the Menendez story, and a couple other, shows as well. I can't remember. I don't have. I don't have the full list in front of me right now. But, I didn't know that that was where it was nominated and I couldn't. I had. Whenever I saw that Monsters was nominated, I did have to, you know, this is taking it to some of the events of the week, with the, United Healthcare, CEO that got murdered, this, that whole story, you know, they did apprehend a guy and you know, and people, y'all, you know, people who are like, sharing this, y'all need to go touch some grass. But that being said, the guy who is accused of murdering that healthcare CEO, and I saw it on social media and when I saw the photos, it, I was like, yeah, you're right, he looks like Dave Franco. And this is like, this is. And the story is completely Ryan. It's, you know, Ryan Murphy has his next plot and movie for American Crime Story already made for him with this. With this incident. So.

>> Sarah : Yeah, like five years from now.

>> Will: Yeah, five years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Technically, he's already working on his next American Crime Story with, Charlie Hunnam. So that's already been announced.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I'm very happy to see nobody wants it wants this gets some love, in. In some of the, categories. Trying to see if it got. I would assume, yeah, it did get nominated for best television series, musical or comedy. That is in fact a comedy. I actually you. I think it was the weekend before last. I did put it on randomly as some white noise in my house and just started rewatching the season. And it's good. It's just surprisingly delightful that show has been. Yeah. And then the usual suspects. Glad to see Katherine Hahn get some love for Agatha Long rightfully so.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : That's a very You know, I'm not usually one to speculate about the best performance by a female actor in a television series, musical or comedy, but that's a pretty, pretty,

>> Will: That's a stack category.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. That's more stacked than some of the male performance categories. So. Interesting. Well, yeah.

>> Will: And then. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. We got I guess House of the Dragon. The only thing I think they got nominated for was I guess Emma Darcy got it for, I guess best actress in a drama.

>> Sarah : Not surprised.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Not, not, not really based on just reactions because, you know, you know, like we've also talked about this and how they do tend to. The voters do tend to lean to. Okay, so what are people talking about? And as much as people did talk about House of Dragon wasn't as positive as the first season.

>> Will: No, no. When you look at the drama categories because you got Day of the Jackal, you got the diplomat, Mr. And Mrs. Smith, Shogun, which both. We watched both of those Slow Horses and Squid Game. Those were really the, I guess buzz worthy shows pretty much just this past television season.

>> Sarah : Okay, see right there you've. Thank you for bringing this up. They've already nominated Squid Game two. It's not even out.

>> Will: So I think it was the. Yeah, I think it's the original Squid game, if I recall.

>> Sarah : So that makes no sense because the original Squid Game came out like actually.

>> Will: No, you're right. You're right. It is season two. It is season two. You're right.

>> Sarah : Yes. I like was looking and I saw that and I was like. And I saw it didn't have a 2 next to it. And I was like, what? But that came out like three years ago. There's no way in hell. And then, and then I was. And then I saw something else later today and it said Squid Game two. And I'm like, it's not even fucking out.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : What. What is this? What is this? Like, I don't understand.

>> Will: It's. It's like. It's like. It's like Drake and, you know, accusing. You know, the Pale is, like, already in with Netflix and in. The Golden Globes are like, you know, give us a little bit of love here for your consideration.

>> Sarah : Well, it's like Squid Game blew up much. Many people's surprises. So much that they're like, oh, we missed out an opportunity. So we're just going to sneak them in because they're going to premiere at the end of this month.

>> Will: Yeah. So technically, that Just get it in.

>> Sarah : It makes no sense. It makes no sense. I don't. I don't understand. But then again, this is why we like to heckle the Golden Globe nominations, because there's always little things, all these weird things. and I don't know if this is a weird thing, but it's kind of, again, a, cycle. A system. yeah, that makes sense. with the news that Jeremy Allen White, is set to join the Star wars franchise in the upcoming Amanda Mandalorian and Grogu movie. Yeah, yeah. You know, give the guy a hit television show. Give the guy Calvin Klein ad and put him in anything you can.

>> Will: Yep. For sure. And the thing is, and it's not even a live action role, apparently he's going to be doing some voice work for, Rhoda the Hut. was Jabba's. Jabba's kid. so this is. Yeah. So it's free.

>> Sarah : Yeah. They're putting him to work just like they are their main actor with Pedro. Like Pedro and everything. And he gets away with it because most of the time, in that show, it's not him exactly.

>> Will: His Brendan Wayne walking around in that suit.

>> Sarah : Yeah, we'll see Star Wars. I don't know. I don't know about everyone. It's kind of like. Okay, is that, It's getting to the point where you're just like, okay, we'll see what happens.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Well, at least this one is actually. They are. You know, I have Scene people on soundstages, so at least we know that this actually is happening. Unlike a bunch of other Star wars stuff. So.

>> Sarah : Right.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : So, yeah, no one wants to pull out that list. All the canceled, broken promises of Star Wars.

>> Will: Exactly, exactly. But, yeah, but, you know, I had to give hat tip to, Jeff Schneider and Kristian Harlow. Jeff, was the one who broke this news. So, But, yeah, when I saw that, I was like, Okay. But, Yeah, but, you know, we'll. You know, I guess, as we were just saying, Jeremy's going to be popping up in a lot of things, and, you know, he's in a Disney family, so let's just. Let's put him in everything that we have as far as under the Disney umbrella.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the funny thing about Jeremy Allen White is I have. I watched Shameless. I watched the first, I want to say, up until, like, season six or five, and then I fell off. But, And. And he was a standout even then, like, as Lip. And I think it's a good thing that after Shameless ended, Which I'm not sure exactly, I want to say the early 2010s, it ended. I feel like there was a nice break so that when he returned in the Bear, now people aren't like, oh, there's Lip.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And it's funny. It's also interesting because both shows take place in Chicago. So, And I'm pretty sure he might even be from there. And I'm. I'm sure that there's ties between the shows because there's. There are some, like, weird similarities where I'm like, okay, I've never looked into it, but, it's just. It's just interesting now, like, for him to come into this potential mega superstar. And I say potential because sometimes what happens is there's a breakout star that then gets shoved down everyone's throats and put in some of the worst movies and television shows, and before you know it, it's like, no, the audience does not want them. Yeah, I'm not saying that will happen because, I mean, the guy is still the lead of the Bear. And despite what happened with season three, it's still a very good television show. So, I mean, it has at least one season left. And then you're just like, okay, it's never going to get back to the magic. Yeah. It's just interesting. It is, also in news, the big question or the big speculation is the potential that Chris Evans will also be returning to the MCU in the upcoming Doomsday film. Do I have that right?

>> Will: Yeah, it is Avengers Doomsday. That's correct. And I. Yeah. And I don't know if the Russo brothers have confirmed it yet or not, but, But that's. That is what is the. That was the other noteworthy thing that dropped, yesterday. And, And I guess the thing is, too, is, like, we know. You know, we know it won't be Johnny Storm because If. Spoiler alert. If you've watched Doomsday and, Deadpool and, Wolverine, you. You know why I'm saying that. if you haven't, then, you know, I just spoiled it for you. But I'm sorry, but,

>> Sarah : Did not think this through.

>> Will: Yeah, I said spoiler alert. So, you know, I gave fair warning. I didn't give enough pause, though. But anywho, the, I guess the thing is, will he return as old Cap? I mean, or. Yeah, that's one thing I could figure. I mean, if they, like, if he comes back as young Cap, then it's like, yeah, y'all just, like, really messed up. a great. Well, I mean, I guess at this point. I guess they don't care at this point because they're bringing back Robert Downey Jr. So I guess it doesn't really matter what.

>> Sarah : But not dark.

>> Will: Yeah, but. Yeah, I know, I know. But at this point, I don't know. I'm still. Whatever. Like last summer, whenever we saw that he was coming back in Doomsday as, Dr. Doom, whatever version if it's a Stark or not, or. And now this news of Chris Evans is sort of like, all right, I don't know. It's just the stunt casting of it just kind of just rubs me the wrong way.

>> Sarah : Right, right. Yeah. I saw this, and I was like, well, that kind of makes sense.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. And not even. And in my mind, it wasn't even questioned if he's coming back as Cap. I'm like, oh, so what bad guy is he going to play?

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Because that's. That's what you do.

>> Will: Yeah. I mean.

>> Sarah : Yeah, you make all of the heroes that have fallen or we've lost in the. In the first few phases, if they're going to come back, they come back as bad guys. You know what's really interesting is if we get, Scarlet. Scarlet Witch back. No, not Scarlet Witch.

>> Will: Scarlett Johansson.

>> Sarah : Yes.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. But she's still Black Widow because, Because she didn't. Her sacrifice. I don't know. They could do some very interesting things with that, with Black Widow. So I. Because it's a weird. It's a character in this whole, story that kind of, came in and then stuck the landing, only to get her own movie that kind of, like, filtered away. Granted, we got. We got our sister out of it, who's probably going to be a standout in the Thunderbolts next year, in my opinion. But I've only Scene the trailer. I've only Scene the trailer so, so I don't know. I don't know. It, it is what it is. Like, I, I find it so hard to speculate about anything anymore just because I'm like, ah, they're gonna do what they want. I'm not gonna cast it for them.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, exactly. They're gonna make. Yeah, yeah, they, you know, as soon as. Because at least, at least with, with Deadpool and Wolverine, going back to that spoilers, you know, disco listen, you know, at least whenever, with that, you know, the return in there was like, okay, fair. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, we get one bite at the apple with this. and I feel like they used it with. I feel like they used it with that, that film.

>> Sarah : not necessarily, because they did a very similar thing in no Way Home.

>> Will: True. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

>> Sarah : And, and no Way Home did it first and I, I mean I, I really did enjoy Deadpool and Wolverine, but no Way Home, they. What they managed to do and everyone knew, everyone knew in the back of my mind those guys were going to show up. But the execution from start to finish, I really enjoyed the whole, the whole movie. And I think it helped having already to see into the spider verse. And so I just, Like, technically they've done it twice.

>> Will: Yeah, you're right. You're right.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

>> Will: Ah, yeah, you're right. I mean, it is the Multiverse saga. So I mean, if you're going to do it, this is the time to do it. You're right.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, you have to. They definitely are. I think they're pinned against the wall where it's just like you started something, you gotta, you gotta, you got very thrown off course, unfortunately. Both story wise and big villain wise, big bad guy wise. And now you have to course correct. And so you gotta kind of finish what you started while at the same time getting us to a place where, where we can start, like we can bring in the X Men and you know, Fantastic Four is coming next year.

>> Will: That's true.

>> Sarah : And, I think I'm going to have a better idea of where we're going with these things after Fantastic Four. Not after Cap 4, not after Thunderbolts, but after Fantastic Four, because that's really the front. And I say this because like, that's the fresh new thing. I know it's been done before about four different times, but like for the mcu, this is our new family that we're being introduced to without any necessarily familiar faces, granted. I know.

>> Will: Yeah, I get your meaning. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Okay. Well, I think that is the perfect note to, leave off and wrap up with the series finale of Superman and Lois. we watched both the penultimate episode, which was episode nine, to Live and die again. And, the tenth episode, which is called. It went by so fast. It did go by so fast, except for the ending. And I'm just going to say this before Will says all of the nice things about this. It had. I should have clocked it. I didn't clock it. But I really want to know how long was the final monologue about the future and the epilogue. That in my opinion was really unnecessary and really boring and just did not hit me at all in my feels the way it should have and then the way it probably did for Will. And I just. I was just like this. Why. Why are we getting. Why, why is this getting the Lord of the Rings treatment right now with.

>> Will: The million endings, as you've always reminded our listeners? Because we're dead inside.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I know I'm dead inside. But it's just. I mean, the one that really. That I rolled my eyes out as soon as they're like, yeah, we can forgive in the afterlife. And you see Lex and I'm like, what. What the fuck is happening?

>> Will: Yeah, I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kid, but I'm just a kid when I say that. But you said you shared that before, and you're right. So this is, this is. This is one of those moments where, you know, sometimes we agree, sometimes we, we are 180 or degrees apart and all things, and this is, this is one of them, or 360, whatever it is. Because to me, this ending worked. It hit me into Phils. I mean, I, you know, it may have been a little bit dusty in the house whenever I was watching it. And, and I, I mean, to your point about the back half of the finale, I mean, it. I mean, I think both episodes were really solid to me. I mean, it just really. Because I think it's. For me, it really captured what was so special about this iteration of Superman. And I thought about this overall, like, why both Superman and Lois and Kryptonite, overall? I mean, I know we, you know, there's been ups and downs with, with each show. I mean, there's no show that's like, perfect. But overall, I think you and I both have agreed that the reason why both those shows worked was because, you know, they took a character like Superman and then they put their own unique. It took it. You know, it took us on a different journey and A different spin on the Superman lore. and with this. And with this finale, for me, it worked because you took a character like Superman who's been virtually indestructible and you. And the thing that they've always done from. From. To get with this show is making him m. Relatable and make, you know, about making him a dad, making him a family man. You know, of course, in this season, making him, you know, mortal as far as, you, know, with the heart trans. Literally getting his heart ripped out and having to do the transplant with. With Sam. And it just really was a real mortality tell on this character and him having to. In him living out his days.

>> Will: And of course. And a very relatable thing that we all have to deal with, which is just the passage of time and life and family and growth and forgiveness with Lex and not holding grudges. All those elements, to me worked and was really fitting for what they did with this character.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : It was funny to see that, John Henry and Lana could actually appear in an episode together.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and that was very last episode where we finally saw them share the screen together. Fast Forward a good 20 minutes, and then suddenly they're getting married, like a year later.

>> Will: Yeah, well, I guess. I guess. I guess John Henry getting. Almost getting killed, I guess, because I know. I know the way they set. When they finally did get set up and they're actually out on a date, they were like, have. Talking, about breaking things off. And then of course, you know, then of course the whole fight happens and stuff. So. Yeah, yeah, that. That was a bit rushed. But, But, you know. But yeah, but, you know, but at the end of the day, they were able to, you know, I guess having all the characters, you know, who basically all the people come back for the finale.

>> Sarah : So many people come back.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. They were able to close out everybody's stories.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what. That's what finales are for. and it's. I just poke fun at it because they closed out all of these stories. But looking back at the entire season of this, last season, the stories, like, it was very much just heavy. Clark and Lois, as it should be, and the siblings. And it felt less like an ensemble as in previous seasons. So for it to get the last few episodes and suddenly the last one where it's like, oh, yeah, we have all of these characters. I mean, I felt like they even gave Jordan and, Jonathan friends that we hadn't Scene maybe since the first season, and I'm like, wow, why do. Why can't we see Nat more? What's going on? So. So. And I know there was budget cuts and this is the final season, and I understand all of that, but it's. I still need to poke fun at it because it's kind of humorous.

>> Will: yeah, yeah. I mean, it was a bit. I will agree. You know, it was a bit, jarring. You know, just to all of a sudden everything that, like. Well, you know, to the example that you shared with. With John Henry and Lana, I mean, that was, You know, we've. They talked about it all throughout the season. And then, you know, and then finally we do get a date. And then we finally do get a date. They're like, talking about breaking it off. So it's just like, so, you know, so from that regard, it did feel a little bit unearned, as far as, you know, one year later, they are married. But especially given that it seemed like a traumatic incident that like, caused them to reevaluate things, to. To be able to, Where they. I guess they did manage to patch things up. And. And then, of course there's Christy and Kyle. And you know, of course where we. Where we left off with them was, you know, Clark and Lois, you know, giving them a loan to, like, you know, get their dream home. And then now they're only having first kid, but they got number two on the way. So, I mean, there were a lot of things that were. That did feel rushed. I mean, I will. I will grant you that, that, That, Because of budget cuts and all those kind of things, they. It was one of those things I had to do. because, you know, just. Just reality of what, you know, what, what the cards they were dealt for this season.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Did. I can't remember the Flash series finale? Did we watch Iris and Barry grow old?

>> Will: you know, the Flash season finale honestly was forgettable. I. Only thing I remember, the only thing I remember from the finale think, Barry did have the same type of monologue. And I think we did see the extended Flash family. As far as, like, other characters. I think, like, I think they have their version of, What was his name? Max Mercury. and the only reason why I just remember that's because I just remember Max from the comic book. But, but this. This finale was this. This finale will actually stick with me because I think. I just felt. I think part of it was. I'm more honestly, by the time with this show I was. I'm a lot more invested in the characters now. you know, I never, you know, with the Flash, I just got to the place where I just didn't care.

>> Sarah : Oh, yeah, I know. I was there.

>> Will: Yeah. And we both were there. But this show, I. I still, You know, I still cared. I mean, and I feel like. About these characters, and I think that's why it hit. And I think also just, you know, whenever. You know, a lot of the moments. For example, I think the ending with Lois and Clark and the monologue and stuff did feel earned, so. Whereas the Flash, I just felt like whatever they did, I was just like. I was just a burnout with the show. It's, like, ended already. Take it out of his misery.

>> Sarah : I think you also felt. I think there was also a feeling with the Flash where. Because what. It had eight seasons. Nine seasons.

>> Will: Nine, seasons.

>> Sarah : Nine seasons. We. We had Scene everything. They had done everything. So it was rinse, wash, repeat. Even with monologues, there were probably better monologues, like the first. The season finale, first season, iconic like that. That is how you end the season. Arguably, that should be how you ended a series, but. But because of that. So I think, to your point, this being four seasons, the last one is like the shortest season. They. They didn't have a lot of time to rinse, recycle, repeat, and all of that. So. So, yeah, every, it did. From that perspective, it is fair to say that it was earned and it wasn't tiresome. And like, we have already heard that way back in season two. so. And I do remember the Arrow series finale, mainly because it was a bit like they jumped this shark so much in that last season. Yeah. By the time the series finale aired, I was just like, I'm just watching this just so that I can. I can make sure what I think will happen, happen. And, And it kind of did. And it was a very sweet scene, even though, like. Like, they. They did a very much like, Oliver had to die and m. But then he gets reunited with Felicity in the afterlife, and it's just. It's cute and it is memorable, but I don't think for the right reasons.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the other thing too, as we. As we. Because we are really closing the chapter on the cw, dctv, with the Indiana Superman and Lois. And, you know, as we think back to the Arrowverse itself and, you know, and this show did in some ways, like. And we thought about it when it first started, it was a mature Version of like this is Arrowverse 2.0 or CWM. At that point, it was like CW verse. They didn't even call it Arrowverse anymore. And it had a distinct tone and flavor. So I think that also, you know, made it between that and also, even though it probably had another. It could have probably had another season in it, I think ending it with this story and how they, you know, was, you know, they. They went into this season knowing that it was the last and they were able to like, really craft a story that really made sense for. For. For the world that they built over the previous, you know, over the previous three seasons. And really, you know, season three and four really just cut. You know, they. They were really just one continuous thing almost. you know, especially given that they had a reduced episode count with the fourth and final season.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, it. I agree that. I don't agree. I. You always say that, but I'm like, I don't. I never agree with that. It. This does feel like a CW show to me. it always has. It definitely there are some episodes, but I think overall the, the, the quantity of episodes, like the number of times when I've complained about the teenager storylines and mainly Sarah's storyline.

>> Will: Yeah, true.

>> Sarah : I got so upset, that I'm just like, oh, it so leans into cw. But then it has these other things and these other episodes that are stand out. also known as the episode with miscarriage in season one. Iconic. Very memorable. And so I think silver lining of the fact that it probably did have at least one or two seasons. I mean, arguably it could have gone on for nine seasons. I mean, small tale went on forever. So, so it. But because it got to bow, it has to bow out early. It was able to not fall into those, traps that we've Scene other shows, at this caliber fall into because it just goes on way too long and that you. You lose sight. You lose sight of what you started. and then you jump the shark or you just. You just kind of meander and no one likes a meandering TV show.

>> Will: Definitely not. Definitely not.

>> Sarah : So. So it was fun. Cw, it, very, very kind of, kind of sad. But it's bittersweet. Like, it had to end.

>> Will: Yeah, it had to. At least they, you know, they, you know, they were, they, they were. Like I said earlier, they gave them the, the turn. You know, they knew what they were facing and they were able to craft a story to, to give these characters a proper send off instead of, And I think they learned from, like, from the examples that we just shared. I think they learned what not to do with. With, with. With the send off. At least. I mean, at least for me. It is. It worked. I hadn't forgot. I honestly, I've forgotten about the, How the Arrow Arrow final episode happened there with the, them joining. I mean, I remember them joining Afterlife, but, some of the particulars of that final season. You're right, they did jump to short quite a bit.

>> Sarah : I kind of remember also because they play, at some point. I think it's in the series finale, they play a song that during the midseason finale, I used to craft a, fan video.

>> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember. Yeah.

>> Sarah : And I still have comments on that one that says, like you predicted.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : but I can't. I'm not sure. I might be getting it confused with the season finale or when. When Felicity left. Because that was another weird thing about the last season. Like, once the actors start leaving, then, you know, the show needs to wrap it up because we started with a core group and the core group should stay till the end. I mean, Flash had that all over the place and thankfully Superman and Lois never got to that point, but. Well, that is a wrap on cw. Arrowverse. Superman.

>> Will: Yeah. It's like closing a chapter on Scene N Nerd here too. It's like that's. This is like what got us started was these shows. Maybe that's. Maybe. Maybe that was kind of like also like that. That came into my. My mind whenever I was watching this, the finale there. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : and that leads us to dune prophecy, season one, episode four, twice born. Okay, this is the longest IMDb.

>> Will: Oh, gosh. Yeah.

>> Sarah : I'm just gonna say, because there arguably there is a bunch of different stuff that happens in this episode. so it says after nearly all the acolytes have the same nightmare, Tula attempts to understand the origins of their disturbing dreams. Meanwhile, on the eve of the Great Lanzard, Meaning Valia sets her plan in motion to redeem house Harkonnen. Yanez confronts her power, her father, about rumors surrounding Desmond and Kieran conspires to advance a rebel attack that the Sisterhood must try to throw. Yeah, yeah, that definitely summarizes. And yet at the same time, does not spoil or any of the. Especially the end. And we'll get to the end. The what the fuck moment I had.

>> Will: there's always one of those episodes.

>> Sarah : You know, I mean, we've. We've talked about the show now, I. I can't believe it's only the fourth episode. There's something about this show that I feel like we've been. We've been on this path longer. And so when I sat down on Sunday, I was like, this is only the fourth episode.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Well, this IMDb summary pretty much captures, what I felt after watching the episode. And I was, like, trying to figure out, like, okay, it was a lot packed into this. So much packed into it to the point where I was just like, I just felt it was, like, overstuffed that they. And it didn't leave. Didn't leave room for things to really marinate. And within the season or the episode, it was just like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And also, you're right, there was definitely the what the fuck moment. But at the same time, I was kind of like, I don't know, it's just the show. I mean, I like watching it, but, I'm also feeling kind, It also just leaves me cold after I finish watching it.

>> Sarah : Yes, yes. And that goes back to what we were talking about last week. There's no real protagonists. There's no one, like, you're really rooting for because you're still not entirely sure what the stakes are, and you're not entirely sure, like, they've managed to show you so many perspectives that you're just like, okay, well, now that I understand all these perspectives, I'm still like, everyone's just there.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : It is. I think you put it correctly. Like, it leaves you with a cold because, like, you were saying, it was overstuffed. And when I reflect back on the episode, it's this, ah, weird. It has a very strange pace. And I say that about all of. All the past four episodes of where stuff like mechanics are moving, plots are moving, conspiring is happening, yet simultaneously, it feels slow.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Like, it's this very weird, weird thing where I'm like, I can. I don't understand why the show feels slow yet there's so much politicking happening. And so it'll be interesting to see if in the next few weeks we can really identify what's the cause of that. but that being said, I do want to start with Tula and the acolytes.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Because I think that's the best way to tackle this episode and talk about storylines, because thankfully, there are kind of isolated to an extent. and I just have to say, with the acolytes and the sisterhood, I still think One of the strengths is how horrific. Like, they lean into the horror. And I don't like horror, but it makes sense. And there's this thematic undertone of tension that they've been able to get. Like, when you see the dreams, I forget how long it took me to realize it was a dream. but what. I did not. For some reason, I did not make. I'm gonna admit this, so nobody make fun of me, Will. but I did not make the connection with how they kill themselves in the dream, with how Dorit was murdered.

>> Will: Oh, m. Yeah.

>> Sarah : it took me. It took me until they pointed that out for, like. Oh, yeah, that's.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : She's still doing stuff.

>> Will: She is. Yeah. And I think you're. And I'm glad you started our discussion with some of the plot points with. With the strong. Why, quite frankly, the strongest part of this episode. I. And honestly, I'm feeling like Tool is the strongest character other than Desmond in this series.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah.

>> Will: because, I mean, she's just. She. She's just a fascinating character. You know, she. She really care, you know, volume. You can kind of see, you know, see her plans and stuff of coming a mile away. Tula with her things that she's doing here with the. You know, trying to get Lila, you know, with the machine, with the thinking machine. And. And like you said, with. With this. With this session, trying to, like, you know, you know, do this there. Do the session to, like, really get the. The acolytes to. To get all of them together, and they do this artwork, pick up the charcoal and start doing all that kind of stuff. I mean, that was just like. You're right. They leaned into that. They lean into the horror of it, and it just. It just. And it. It really sets up things so. So well, especially as far as this philosophical thing. I know whenever we were, you know, chatting a little bit last night or night before. But, at least I made the point about the myth m. The mystical versus the technology. And this really dives into that. That mystical realm of Dune that, you know, so many people talk about and that. And so, yeah. So, you know, to your point, whenever we realize that, you know, this is what she's seeing as far as, you know, the original goal was to see what Raquel's message was, but in doing so, now they're actually, you know, seeing what the, red. I think, what. You know, what she and her acolytes are really trying to, like, you know, what they were envisioning in that. In the Agony there.

>> Sarah : Well, it's. I think. I think it's both. I don't think it's one or the other because I don't think Doretta has complete control over either. Like, she's been able. She found this, this tunnel or this. This communication that they, like, essentially opened a door. And she's like, I'm just gonna leave a crack. Okay, Because. Because there's other secrets and other history and facts that have to get out there so I can really, tamper the waters with the acolytes.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Well, simultaneously they are getting closer because by the end of this whole, Let me put you under and you draw your dream sequence A, they all ended up at the same point, which is a dark figure. It's pretty much the. What's inside of the warm. And it's two blue eyes.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and then there's a noise that for a moment, and I know this isn't right, but for a moment there's like this interesting sound design that's used that almost feels like machinery. And so it's like, okay, is that a thinking device? Like, are they one in and of the same? So the mystery of this reckoning, you would think it would be kind of annoying, but it is like, okay, so what's really going on here and how is it all connected, especially with what's going on with Desmond and as we learn, what's going on with Theodosia. so. And then to your point, like, all of that mysticism. M m. Only then to go back at the end of the episode for Tula, to feel like, okay, like I said last week, Leela, you have to be the Twice Born. You have to be. And then they end it with another. Or they leave. End the storyline with another horror. Horror moment where I was just like. Because she's in a dream. And as soon as I saw the stand pouring, I was like, okay, this is a dream. It's a dream. Wake up. Wake up. I don't like being here.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : But then when she woke up, I didn't like it either. Because you see, you see the. The, The. The whole thing that Lila was in was cracked open and you don't know where she is. And then they. They like, you go to a dark screen and I'm like. I'm like, I'm not going to look. I'm not going to look because you're going to do a jump scare, you're going to do. But I. I don't know. And now Lil is awake. So what does that mean? And, yeah, but also.

>> Will: Yeah, and I mentioned that Val, you know, again, it has, you know, what? She, you know, she's trying to control things back, and we'll get to, what's going on the Capitol world soon. But, you know. But Tula also, you know, they both are in their scheming, in their own way. They're. Whenever. You know, with Tula in this situation with the acolytes, I mean, she, you know, she. She, you know, lost control of what, you know, what she was trying to do, and, you know, the other sister was like, pull them out of it. Pull out of it. Because she, you know, again, So they're both flounder, you know, so, yes, she has her mission as far as trying to get what the Reckoning is about and trying to, you know, learn what the premonitions are that, you know, for. For the sisterhood. But at the same time, she's also still. You know, we've seen her flounder, now. You know, now twice with. With the. Whenever she starts, you know, dipping her toe in this realm. I mean, the first was, you know, having Lila, you know, carrying out the mission of Lila in the agony, and then now this. So it's just. So, again, it's just.

>> Sarah : Yeah, to your point, she flounders when she is pushed or she tells herself she's doing something because it's what her sister would do.

>> Will: Exactly. Yeah.

>> Sarah : And. And that's. That's really her downfall. It's like you. I. We don't know for sure how much Viola knew about the plan to get revenge for Griffin. We don't. We don't really know, but she was able to accomplish that. And it's. Yet she's still trying to prove herself to her sister. And honestly, the decisions that she makes, where she flounders the most, it's not the sisterhood. It's mainly to protect her sister, because it's not Tula. It's not. No one else had any hand in Doretta's death except for Valya. So it's very, I like that the sisters are separated. and you see how much, like that sibling nature of them. It's not a rivalry, which I applaud the writers for. It's not a rivalry, which we've Scene 10,000 times. It's more of like, I. I am so tethered to you that I will follow you to hell.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. Granted, we. We've Scene the rest of the Harkonnen So I can't necessarily fault Tula for being like, you're my life raft. Which man. And. And I. I will say to. To go into more of Valia stuff, that I know in the past I've questioned about this whole. Why is it the Harkened. And above all. And I think they proved it to me in this episode, that no for Valya after Griffin was avenged for it very much, it's the sisterhood above all. She could care less. And that's why they have not had a true star for so long.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : While simultaneously she has to go back to them because with her political power, she, has to utilize them to get her and the sisterhood to where she wants it to be, which is like. To restore that which was lost. So I understand more now. A lot of the questions I had from last week I felt like were a little bit more answered in terms of her and what she's doing, in this episode.

>> Will: Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. I mean, she. Yeah. I mean, it's basically. You know. And even the uncle calls her out on some of those kind of things too.

>> Sarah : Right.

>> Will: So. Yeah. So, yeah. So you. The. The questions were answered. But again, I think, she, Really. But Identity. Yeah. The end of the day, though, she could care less about her family. You're right. Sisterhood above all. And it was also. And she's just. You're right. She's just using the fam. You know, this is so transactional just to get to be able to seize the sisterhoods in the place in. You know, because she's lost her influence. Because after what happened, you know, she got expelled from the castle, so she's trying to figure out ways to get back into. Back into the Imperium's good graces.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Because it's all about power. And there's even a line in this episode that when you grant. And I think it's in. It's. I think it's related to Korean, but it's very much applicable to viola and to what we're seeing occur. You give someone so much power. Singular person. Their only actions after that are, how do I preserve.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : It's that. That's what it is. It's just, how do I preserve this? How do I protect this? It's not. It's. It's. I think it was a very, astute observation, and I think it. I liked how it applied to a few different characters that we were seeing, in this episode. And, And. And, you know, by the End of it. She. She, She. She kills another one.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Kill her uncle.

>> Will: Very, very, like. Yeah, very like to, like, just no source. Yeah. The sound. The sound design with the coughing and the gag eating, you know, it's just like I was, like, retching, like, I was sitting there watching it because it was just so, like, so, like. Like stomach turning watching it. So many levels.

>> Sarah : Right.

>> Will: So I guess so. Yeah. I did say that, show leaves me cold. But like I said, there. There are moments that was one of the. What the fuck? Moments, even though there was a much bigger one, at the end.

>> Sarah : Yeah. I also, like, I didn't copy this word for word, but she pretty much tells Harrow her nephew. The past has branded us, but the future can redefine us. And you are the future of this house. I just. I. It's. Every time I say Valia is now sisterhood or, above all, she still holds a torch for the parking. And whether it's the downfall of her family or her place in her own family, like, it's. I think it's so nuanced. And fortunately, at the same time, I feel like they just have not found a way to get it to the point where viewers can, like, have real empathy because we still don't really understand what the fuck happened.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Right. And it's. It's like this weird thing where it's been a while since I've struggled with this in a TV show where I want to like you more, I want to empathize with you more, I want to understand you more as a character, but for some reason, the writers don't want to tell us the history. That doesn't. That doesn't help me.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : it's not, like, very important in this sense.

>> Will: Yeah, it's like, you know, like I think you said last week with, you know, we were talking about how, at least with, like, for example, Penguin.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: You could. Like, even though you knew he was just a bad dude, but somehow you still just rooted for Oswald here. It's just like, I can't. I just can't root for Valia. I just can't.

>> Sarah : Yeah, because at the end of the day, you don't understand. You. You can't believe her. you can't trust her.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Not. Not in the same way that you can't trust Oz, but with Valya, you can't trust her because she has a claim that, as a viewer, you have yet to validate. So if we were to, know that. Yeah, we can see why she thinks it's a lie that caused her outcast, but in reality, it's the truth. Then we could at least be like, okay, I understand, but we have nothing. We're not really sure what that. What the chain of events were surrounding that whole incident that caused the Harkonnen family to become outcast. And because it's so pivotal and it feels very nuanced for this character, that's why it's causing such harm to the overall show itself. Because I think about Game of Thrones and House of Dragon. House of Dragon. We. We entered the house. We were shown a brief click, clip about how Viserys came to power. And then they just. They just planted seeds. Sprinklings of, like, his relationship with Damon, his relationship with his daughter, how he. How he killed his wife. In a way.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Like. And then the history kind of was speckled throughout the season. But. And I'm thinking about it, it didn't. The history didn't seem as. As important as the events of current day did in that show where here, because of this torch that Valia is carrying, it feels so important for her character that with us not having it, it feels incomplete.

>> Will: There you go. That. Bingo. That's. That's what's missing in the show. I mean, they're trying to do the. You're right. I mean, they're trying to do the House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones. Kind of political, you know, history and all that. You know, fill in the. Fill in the rest. But you nailed it. I mean, I think that's. That's the. That's the missing element that's making it hard to connect.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And, that. That brings us to Desmond Hart. I still like Desmond. his character just always seems like he's high. Seems high. And some very weird things happen. I do. Like, he has a very weird relationship with the emperor. And I'm not sure what they're trying to insinuate, but, we see him, and he's going. He's ripping out pages of the books that the true Sayer left, Kasha left behind. And Corrino, comes to him with seeking guidance because pretty much everyone knows that he was involved in Pruitt's death. I mean, call and I. And I like Desmond's line of the time to snuff a fire out is when a fool lights a match, not when your house burns down.

>> Will: That was a great lot.

>> Sarah : Yeah. It's kind of like, dude, we've started this. Okay. I don't know why you're so not up to the challenge. Which I do appreciate how they've managed to continue to show us the differences between, the Emperor and the Empress and just their interactions with Desmond.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Speaks volumes.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: Everything we need to know about, you know, about why Corino is just. Yeah. Feckless. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. And I mean, as I was. Were you surprised when. When Empress Natalia was just like, oh, Desmond. That was me. Yeah.

>> Will: Wasn't at all. I was like, okay. Yeah. Makes. Yeah. That saw that coming a mile away.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciated how she also explained it. There's. I want to understand more about her and this weird rivalry she has with the sister sisterhood, because, my God, she knows their tactics.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : She knows them. so did she study and what. Like, I know they were involved in the arrangement of her marriage, and so there's a story there, for sure. very interesting. what's not interesting to me, and in my opinion, the weakest part of these episodes and this show so far is every. Every time Kieran and Yanez are on the screen.

>> Will: Thank you. M. Okay, See, even though we had our disagreement with Superman and lois, we are 100%. I have my notes. The weakest link is, is that story.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: And that. And that character. I mean, she just basically comes there and has a little, you know, fit about, you know, during the. During. During breakfast. And I was just like. That scene was completely pointless. I just, like, really. I mean,

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. It. She started so strong.

>> Will: Exactly. That's why I'm so disappointed, because I was like, this is going to be a very interesting character now. It's just like, they've put her.

>> Sarah : Into this mode of being a brat and disagreeing and. And then going to kiss her boyfriend. Not boyfriend. And it's just. I don't know. They put her in a very stereotypical role.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I still don't know what they're doing with Constantine. I haven't figured that out at all.

>> Will: Yeah. He's just there just to be just the sulky brother. I mean, it's just. Yeah. But, that. That was definitely the weakest points of the episode this week, for sure.

>> Sarah : Yeah. It just. When they're on screen together, it turns into I'll be at a CW show.

>> Will: Exactly.

>> Sarah : I'm just like, this doesn't. It doesn't feel like the same thing. I have been watching with the adults. Why are we at the children's table all of a sudden? I don't really care about this, and I don't really buy their Affection for one another or anything. So. Yeah, I,

>> Will: Mean, to your point. Yeah, there was exposition about. About him. You know, the whole rescue and, you know, she was kidnapped and stuff. But again, they were telling. But it was just. Again, the telling again of things in history. But it's just. It's just like a telling of the lie from, you know, with the Atreides and the Harkonnens from the beginning. It's just like, okay, okay, fine.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. I don't. I don't know. With that and. And the big. The big event of this episode was the, council meeting and where we saw this plot. and Valia views it as an opportunity for her to get in good faith with, M. Get it back into the good graces of ever by bringing forward Kieran and his rebels for using, Using, the technology. The forbidden technology, as they call it. But. But then Desmond shows up and pulls that plan right out from under her.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : And then. And then he gets approval to use his powers. And so we not only have now Scene a kid and a woman die from burning the inside out, but now a few other people.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. That one dude, he was just like.

>> Sarah : Never gets easier.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He, ripped it. Yeah, right there. And they were like, okay. How gruesome can we get? Yeah, we'll show you. Yeah.

>> Sarah : I was like, I don't. I don't need it. The sounds were doing enough for me. Like, I don't need to see this. This is going on a bit too long. and his one. The one annoying thing that happens that had to happen is he leaves behind a blood sample that Valia can then take and then learn more about her enemy, which is foreshadowed in a previous scene. but I. I just liked how. I liked a lot of the mechanics of the whole, whole council meeting because there were a lot of players, a lot of different plot points that they had set up, coming together, getting a bit resolved, but also just like, the tension rose and then they resolved it. But now there's new consequences to lead us into the final two episodes of the season. but, Will, unless you have anything to say about the council meeting, this just brings us to the. What the fuck moment at the end.

>> Will: No, we. I think we've covered it well.

>> Sarah : Okay, so, Theodosia. So they kind of. They allude to something in the beginning, or fairly early on about because she questions value. Why did you take me with her? With you? And. And it's like, well, you know, why? And I'm sitting there like, nope, I don't. But it's a good space where they don't tell you anything, so you don't know. But it's far enough removed where you kind of forget about it. And then at the end, after Valya kills yet another family member, she looks up and she sees Griffin. And, I'm totally on board with like, oh, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. He killed the uncle. He a brother. Yep. This is why Valya is the way she is. so. And they have a sweet moment, and then the conversation is weird because it's like, I've pushed you too far. And. And then it's. And she says the name Theo, and I'm just like, what? Who's Theo? Yeah, I took me into. We actually saw the face for me to be like, oh, she's a shave sister. Okay. Because I was like, you got another brother who you inadvertently got killed in this whole dream. I was like, who's Theo? Why am I so. But here's why. It was a what the fuck moment. It wasn't that, oh, she's a shape sister. I feel like there. Because she picked something up, and the whole line about, have I pushed you too far? So in my mind, I'm like, wait a second. So was Theodosia undercover at the council meeting? And if so, as who M. And, like, was she Kieran? And then my mind really starts to go, because there they again. I think the sound design of this show needs to get awarded, because you start to hear, like, someone being suffocated and struggling to come out. Like, there's whoever she took over and is standing in the place. They make it come off like that person is still inside, yet they're struggling, and they can't get out. It's a really intense sound that is being made. so I just. I just was like, what the fuck? What am I supposed to understand from this? And what is happening right now? Because Theodosia also is leaving, which tells me. Okay, so has she not yet taken the place of, whoever. Like, I want to say it's Kieran.

>> Will: Yeah. Because, I mean, I know. You know, because. Because the way the whole scene plays out, you know, she shows up as Griffith, and then as, we go, you know, they. They go to the adjoining room, and he. You know, shape shifting is. They're starting to transform into somebody else.

>> Sarah : Right, Right. But we don't know who.

>> Will: And Face the Black.

>> Sarah : So, you know, my. Because there's a scene right before the council meeting between Constantine and his Father. And it's very different than any other scene we've Scene between them in previous. It almost feels like maybe. Maybe that's who she's taking the place of.

>> Will: Maybe, maybe. But I know they like set it up before or maybe You know, I don't know if it happened before. I mean, I know because you know, they. They too. As you noted earlier. You know, there was the line about. Said that. That she has some gifts. So I don't know if. If. If. If she. If. If That h. You know, you could read it one way or you could read it both ways. You could be like, I need you to do it now and then, you know. And you know, she did it earlier.

>> Sarah : No, no, no, it. It definitely she's done it. Like that was the whole reason why Valia picture to come with her. Because m. She knew and has Scene her do this.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. So you're right. I mean, I guess. Yeah. So I think your interpretation is right. I mean I think you. She has done it before and you know, now Vi is going to use her again for whatever purpose that we'll. I guess we'll find out the next week or so.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And it's also leaving out the questions of well, why is she able to do this? And I feel like there's implications that comes from the spice because the way the power materializes is very similar to what we've Scene Desmond do. So there's. They managed to expand upon like it's not a It's not a one off that Desmond is. Has this ability. And also what we learn about Desmond's ability is there are consequences because he has all of these lashing on his back for is implied every time he uses this. And we see the pain which just tells me like, I don't know like maybe she also doesn't. Theodosia is against using this gift, because in. In the end the longer she's pursuing this Persona, the more likely that other person will die or something.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's Will Polk. Yeah. Who knows. But. But yeah, but it definitely clearly like Desmond and. And others, you know, and also you know, we. We also see like Lila as far as whatever, you know, she does emerge from the tank, back on wall there. There is a consequence of you know, being this, I guess twice born, you know, once in blood, once in spice. And so yeah, so maybe we'll, you know, we, you know, maybe that's part of it too. It's just like before Theodosia is like, you know, it just exacts such a toll on her, to use his power and you know, and I guess. And it's. Overall, I mean, I think this, you know, the titled episode does like, you know, really speak to, you know, to the Twice Born is really referenced to many characters within, within this, within this story. So.

>> Sarah : Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I mean, in a way, both, Valia and Tula were, were born again when they joined the sisterhood. So like, like, I really enjoy that title. the more we talk about this episode, I can see a lot more about the fuller picture, despite the weaknesses we've, we've discussed and the boldness of it all. but we'll see. They, they got, they got two more hours and then some minutes to really, to really lock it up and, and I'm not again, I'm not mad at this at all. So far. definitely room for improvement, but, not mad, not disappointed. So on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners what, where they can find you.

>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will M. Polk W I L L M P O.

>> Sarah : L K. And you can find me there too at SJ Belmont. SJ B L M O N T. Please follow our crew on Twitter @seenanerd, falls on blueskynanerd, friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene Underscore N, underscore Nerd and Visit our website www.uhsceneanerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.