Fallout Season 1 finale, X-Men '97 Ep. 3 reviews & Exciting Updates for Shogun and Star Wars!

>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont. And with me, as always, is our mister producer, Will Polk. How are you doing tonight, will?

>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?

>> Sarah : I'm doing good. I mean, we're recording on a Monday. Yeah, this is a first.

>> Will: It's been a long time. It's been a very long time.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the long time listeners feel free to comment if you do feel like this was the first, because, I don't know, there's something inside of me. It's telling me that it is definitely, definitely. Maybe once or twice before. Nothing more. Like it's a rarity to be recording on a Monday.

>> Will: Yeah, it's probably. It's definitely post 2020, for sure. I think maybe we did it. It was like before the pandemic.

>> Sarah : And that's a whole lifetime ago.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. For real.

>> Sarah : It feels like it. to kick things off, Will wants to talk about how they're greenlighting a season two for Shogun.

>> Will: Well, maybe. Maybe things are. Whereas before, it was looking like it was a limited series, and that was it. Thursday or Friday last week, we got word that Hiroki Sanada, who was the producer and also actor who played Toranaga on Shogun, signed a if calm deal with FX, which basically is, if they can get all the other pieces to come together, then they will have a second season of the show. And so, that's where things stand at this point. I know there was a lot of. Some tea leaves sort of brewing last week with the, also with the Emmy nominations, because Emmy nominations for. For your considerations had to be in on, May 9. And so there was also some movement from. To move the show from the limited series category to the drama category. So there's a lot of things in the air, but, But right now, we do have Tornado, Arrow, key, Sonata signed to a contract, so that if everything else on the business side and I guess that the showrunners can come back and. And come up with a good story for a second season, then, yeah, we may get a. May get a second season of Shogun.

>> Sarah : Well. Well, that's. I feel like that's the same thing you told me for at least the last episode, because I felt, I think, if I recall correctly, our conversations about Shogun season one, about episode five. I started asking, so, will there be season two? Will there be a season two?

>> Will: A lot of people were asking, will there be a season two? And at the time, it was. The plan was just to do the one season, but obviously it has done. It did very, very well. I think it for FX. And of course, it was also streaming on Hulu and Disney plus and star. So you know, the streaming numbers, I think it was one of. One of the highest performers.

>> Sarah : Yeah, it definitely hit out at the right time. There was not much else going on earlier this year, so. So we shall see if that comes true.

Jeff Snyder reports that Sigourney Weaver is in talks to join Grogu

Jeff Snyder has reported that Sigourney Weaver is in talks to join the Mandalorian and Grogu. That's so weird to say. The Mandalorian and Grogu.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I know.

>> Sarah : Just call it Grogu.

>> Will: Yeah. That's all. That's the only thing everybody cares about. I think I actually saw on social media today, I think, the Mandalorian was trending. Not for this news, but I think it was maybe the trademark or something of when they trademarked grogu.

>> Sarah : Not even that. It's just that there's the mandalorian show, right? So we're so used to saying the Mandalorian that now it's like, oh, but now we're gonna make a movie and we're just gonna attach the little guy's name on it and that'll be different. But you still start off by saying the name of the tv show, and then it's like, oh, yeah, to add in and grow group.

>> Will: Yeah. I can just even make it simpler for Lucasfilms. Just call it the baby Yoda movie, and then everybody will know what you're talking about.

>> Sarah : Ah. Mg.

>> Will: Exactly.

>> Sarah : Mg. M mg adventures. Like, come on. I don't know.

>> Will: Yeah, but, Yeah, but Snyder broke this news, Friday night, and, Hollywood reporter confirmed it as well. And so, yeah, I guess things are in talk for her to joined a cast. And, of course, we don't know who she'll be playing at this point, but, love to hear from our listeners as far as Star wars fans and theories on who you think she may end up playing in this movie. Whenever, whenever they start filming, which I believe they're supposed to start filming, maybe later this year. So. Yeah. Yeah. That's the latest from the Star wars land.

>> Sarah : So will this be a theatrical?

>> Will: Yes.

>> Sarah : Yes, please. Okay. Damn it.

>> Will: 2020. I think they were going to. Originally, I was going to be 2025, but I want to say they, have pushed it back to 2026.

>> Sarah : Still too soon. so when do we start taking bets on the runtime? this is going to be a three hour movie. That really should have been like an hour and a half.

>> Will: No, that's. No, that's what they should have done with, like, ahsoka to a theatrical release. Cause it was. Yeah, those runtimes with those 20 minutes shows. But I guess the acolyte is also doing that too, where I'm fully aware.

>> Sarah : Of, like, darkness does not learn from it. Mistakes, like, too early enough to prevent repeating them. No, he had, the acolyte in the works. It was too late to go back.

>> Will: Yeah.

One little grumble about the acolyte before the show drops

Yeah, speaking of the acolyte. So I have to do one little grumble and then we can move on to X Men and fallout. so I was watching a game, game yesterday, one of the basketball games Cameron R. Was playing. It was one of the blowouts. But anyway, they had another, just a little teaser for the acolyte, and it was one with Carrie Anne Moss. And I know during Star wars day, I was like, oh, there. I'm feeling a little bit better about this thing after watching the little teaser yesterday where I just felt like, well, damn, if I didn't know any better. I thought it was the matrix part ten because it was just, I think, I may be my words, but I feel like it was a miscast to bring in Carrie Moss or it was just a miss. It was like Apple in their iPad advertising last week where they just. The vibes. It was like she was doing trinity stuff and I was just like, okay, it's Trinity again. I don't know, but that's just a grumble about Star wars for the day.

>> Sarah : Yeah, we're probably going to hear that grumble at least a few more times before. Before the show drops. I'm not necessarily saying it's going to be from you, but I'm sure a lot of people are going to make that comparison. It's hard not to. I mean, you have arian, moss doing like, fight choreo.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And I believe, like, it's commonly known matrix. Like, took some, took some inspiration from Star wars. So it. It's like, yeah, of course. Like, and they. They did it on purpose. Like, Cassie was not. Not. Oh.

>> Sarah : I wonder who should play this part. No, no. They, they knew when they cast her that they would get that comparison and potentially draw in people just because they want to watch Carrie Ann moss, kicks mass. So. So. But at the end of the day, there's going to be so many other little things that I'm going to find because will's making me watch at least two or three episodes of this thing. Before we're going to go on a hiatus. And. And this is my grumble that I know we're going to put a pin in, but I'm just going to say this to you now. We're going to have a conversation about how I was never the completionist, but I don't like the fact that the acolyte is going to become the second show we start, and then we potentially return to.

>> Will: Well, there's just this little thing called, you know, house of the dragon and the boys.

>> Sarah : I understand all of that. I just don't know why we can't finish up invincible. But that's, ah, again, conversation for another time.

>> Will: Yeah, we'll get to that. Well, we'll have to talk after the show.

>> Sarah : As far as our scheduling, there might be some negotiations.

>> Will: Yeah.

X Men 97, episode three, fire made flesh. The visitor was a clone

>> Sarah : all right, that brings us to X Men 97, episode three, fire made flesh. The visitor was a clone. No, the visitor was the real Jean Grey. And it turns out the clone was with us the whole time.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Dun dun dun dun dun dun.

>> Will: yeah, speaking of invincible, I couldn't help but think when I was reading your show notes, I happened to think about the clones in that show. Which one was first?

>> Sarah : I didn't think about that at all because those characters, for some reason, have never, like, resonated with me. I never, never thought about them. the synopsis for this episode is when a visitor arrives at the mansion with the dangerous secret that threatens Cyclops and Jean's relationship. The team is propelled into a tragic confrontation with an immortal mad scientist, aka Mister sinister. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I couldn't help but just think about how there's been a few. Has there been at least one or two teases in, like, the MCU of Mister Sinister?

>> Will: Maybe in, maybe like, doctor strange? Maybe.

>> Sarah : Maybe. I just, vaguely feel like there's.

>> Will: Been, or maybe what if.

>> Sarah : Yeah, a few recent and maybe a few, like, really old.

>> Sarah : like, really old. And. And there. Granted, there's a few. Sony. Sony does a weird thing. I don't know if Sony would ever bring up Mister sinister, I'm not sure. But, But for those who have been in the shadows just waiting, this was an episode for you because it featured a lot of Mister Sinister. This felt like more of a one off episode than the previous two. And so I'm kind of glad I was reflecting on yesterday when I watched it. I'm glad we, we got this one over with because I know that there's some, some two parters headed our way as we make our way through the season. So this, I can see what it was doing mainly for cyclops and Jean Grey. And then we have the, storm tease at the end. At the same time, it very much followed a villain of the week format.

>> Will: It did, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was a very. I really did like the episode, though. I mean, I think the, with Mister Sinister and also with this, with, with the clone, with real Gene showing up and, and of course, the whole, you know, the team being sort of already kind of, unbalanced because we have. They're still dealing with the disappearance of Professor X. And of course, Magneto is, take is now the leader of the team and Scott sort of gene, we're already in trying to transition mode out of the team, so. And then their whole world gets turned upside down whenever real Gene shows up because they're already like, oh, man, we got it. We're already trying to try to wrap our heads around, like, nino being our leader. Now you're throwing this on us, right? Yeah, yeah. I like the way that this episode just sort of started out with, with that and, and, and also just, you know, Scott's already having sort of a crisis of confidence and trust and things. And then now you're throwing this at him. And, and also, you know, he references like, you know, his background, as far as, like, loose not having his father around and that kind of stuff. So it was a lot. It was a lot packed into this episode.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. They, they did a good job with pulling on all of the threads about trust issues. And, that comes when you introduce a clone into the team or like this. We. This idea that you don't know when one was started and like, you do know. You do know which one gave birth to Nathan. Yes, but then. And then also. But it was a clone. And like, does that. Ah, but yeah, it's just, it's very confusing. And so they. I understand the focus. And, they, they did bring in the team enough to where when they were, when clone. Clone Jean goes, What does she refer to herself as? It was. Stupidest name ever. Goblin queen.

>> Will: Yeah, goblin queen.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. When she goes berserk on all of them and starts messing with their minds and showing them their fears. And, there was one fear, so I didn't. I didn't really. I guess Morse fear was mister sinister. Yeah. Okay. What in the heck was beast fear?

>> Will: I didn't. So beast sphere, I didn't really register pick up on what it was. I mean, yeah.

>> Sarah : Ah, because morphs was the elevator, right?

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : I would have been afraid of that too, in all honesty, but. But Beast also did not react afraid and so everyone else's was kind of predictable what it was. I I didn't really like the whole gambit of it all. I mean, I know I have a feeling where this is headed, but I also don't think it was necessary, to continue watering that seed. But we'll see what happens later on the season. And we're only on episode three with that.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : So, yeah, go ahead.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as far as the whole gambit with Magneto and Rogue's, relationship, they were. They were definitely pulling in some, basically pulling into the animated series, something canon that is. That that was the storyline in a comic. So, you know, so I did, you know, so to your point, they. That that thread will that seed will, you know, cultivate and grow throughout the series, I'm sure.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. M what else happened? So. Okay. Bishop.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Is it just me or did he just magically appear in this episode?

>> Will: So we saw him in the first.

>> Sarah : One for like how long?

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And then we saw during the trial, I mean, we just see him briefly whenever Magneto was. Whenever they were in the United nations and they were fighting off the, xenophobes, with the trial and stuff. But, you know, but then we do get bishops back. You know, we do finally get to see his. His time bracelets and they. And they're getting repaired. And of course we saw the. His sort of backstory with his sister and, you know, with all with with all the visions that the goblin queen was, you know, messing with everybody's mind. but I guess really the bigger point with him in this story, I think, was just he was the MacGuffin to basically take Nathan to the future so he can. Because since the sinister, you know, infected him with the, tech virus, that enables them to be later become cabled, you know, they can only treat it in the future. So, which, you know, as a parent, I was just like that. I will say that, that that, you know, this is not your Saturday morning kids show anymore. They're definitely like pulling on some more darker, darker themes in this series.

>> Sarah : Yeah, that was kind of my point of being, like, I barely remember him in the first two episodes. And then suddenly there was like all of this. Like he was. He was just there and very present and I'm like, what are we doing with Bishop here? And then at the end, I'm like, okay, I get it. I understand. But it kind of. I'm like, why couldn't we got some of that stuff earlier on, too? So it wasn't just like a pull at the heartstrings because Nathan, has to get taken away, but, like, bishop goes. Is going with him, and it's. I don't know. But it did. Also, they answered our question that I posed at the very end last week. How long are we going to watch the X Men raise a baby?

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, there could have been some things that, that tie back to the animated series that I just. I just don't. Can't remember or just didn't watch.

>> Sarah : I am. I am sure there are, like. And I appreciate how. How they are not spoon feeding that. If you're really curious to go back and watch the original show, of course. But at the same time, I guess in terms of just this season overall and knowing that there's people who either haven't watched it or haven't watched in a very long time, that they may need to, get a little more connected to some of these characters who are going to have a big part in an episode, and then you're not going to see them because we might. I don't know. I have a feeling we're going to see Bishop later on this season, but I wouldn't also be surprised if we don't see him until season two again.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : So. So I do not know, is. Is there anything, like Mister sinister, royal destiny, blah, blah, blah. He's just another x Men villain. Like, there's Magneto and then there's everyone else, arguably, for villains.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, basically, this was a. This was sort of a bridge episode, I think, to pull, pull, pull together certain things from the first. Like you said, the. The first two were really got us in back into this universe. This one is sort of like, okay, we're going to carry some of the threads forward. We're going to introduce real Gene and then really blow up Scott's world. And then also, you know, they did tease Wolverine and, I guess, og, jeans, feelings for one another, and whenever she was there in the hospital room. And then. And then, of course, Madeline, you know, with. I guess they also introduced Madeline Pryor into the animated series universe, you know, putting that name canon in this universe as well from the comics as far as the clone gene, because that's, you know, again, that's, they are pulling from that universe as well. So I mean, there was a lot of things, like I said, there was a lot of things packed in this episode. And, you know, I'm not as steeped in my X men lore, but I know enough that I was like, oh, this. I got, you know, I made a lot of notes here as far as, like, things to keep an eye on for later in the season.

>> Sarah : That's good, because I do. I. We're so early that, and I. There's been some hype for me hearing from, like, kind of funny guys have brought up X Men before on their regular podcast, and. And so I do know that it's gonna get, like, really, really good. And we're just. Yeah, we're just in the setup mode. Like, get you back into the. To the rhythm of. Of watching X Men 97 and. And re familiarizing yourself with these characters and their polites. And. And you're right. like, it really is, like, okay, we have our first two beginning episodes. We need this bridge now to have the kid, get rid of the kid and then be on the way for this overall arcing that's going to pull out many threads. And. And they continue to do that thing that I really think is, for whatever reason endearing is at the very end where we're right back to storm and who. And she hears from a friend of an old friend of Charles Xavier's that he might be able to help her get back what she lost. So we're just getting started, and next week, we're going to talk about four or three episodes. I forget off the rundown, but it's an all X Men 97 podcast.

>> Will: That's right. Yeah. We'll have two weeks in a row of all X Men 97.

>> Sarah : Now we are going to wrap up our discussion about fallout season one with episode seven, the radio. Oh, will. Will. Well, like, I also had to organize.

>> Will: Oh, there was a lot. Again, I saw the run sheet and I was like, thank you. This makes it, I, like, I know we talked about this last week where the organization definitely helped, because there's so many plots going through in this show, like, and.

>> Sarah : We'Ll get into, like, the very last episode. But these last two episodes, it wasn't just that there were so many different. There was at least three or four storylines happening simultaneously. But in comparison to the previous episodes, there was so much more jumping all over the place, back and forth, left, right where I was like, okay. And then at the end, I had to think to myself, okay, so in what order makes the most logical sense? Because some of the times they cross over. Right and right over each other. So, so we're, we're, we're, we're trying to condense it into one arc at a time. Yes. That means that we might touch on a few ending beats earlier, but, you know, that's what happens. So. So we're going to start with the radio in vault four with Lucy Maximus. So Lucy got caught and she is imprisoned after seeing the experiments in level twelve and shown a video of her history.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : what did you think about this video of history where they basically are showing Lucy about how those experiments were the. They were the original vault four dwellers or. No, no, they what. Okay, what was the video?

>> Will: Yeah, my understanding of the video was the scientists. And this does touch on something. you mentioned before last week as far as what would happen if the scientists ended up running the world.

>> Sarah : Yes.

>> Will: And so these scientists were trying to create a hybrid human with the radioactive resistant creature. So they were making the golfers. The thing that we saw way back, I think, in earlier episodes, in that radioactive leak. Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : And, they were experimenting on vault dwellers or surface people.

>> Will: So, they were experimenting on, I think, a company, I think, vault welders because I think. Yeah, and I noticed. Yeah, because I think this, you know, then this does get into, things we learn later, but just to punt a pin in that. But this. Yeah, they. Yeah, we, they were, they were. These were the experiments that all the other vaults were doing. and we learned later about why that is the case.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. And, and then there's a very good question with no response of what was the experiment that occurred in vault 33? What was it?

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : they then take Lucy and they just so happen to take her down the hallway where Maximus can clearly see joyous popcorn.

>> Will: You know, I'm going to join a movie. Wasn't it a Cooper Howard movie? Was it a Cooper Howard movie, too?

>> Sarah : Not completely, brainwashed. to not realize that Lucy is being carried away and might need some assistance. So that prompts him to get off, up off the couch and, to go steal some energy. You know, I'm going to do the right thing, but first I have to do the bad thing to do the right thing. You know, it's Maximus.

>> Will: Yeah, exactly right.

>> Sarah : And then they have a very. I don't know what it is, but I'll get into that later. But then they, they set you up thinking that they're going to kill Lucy. They're not. They're actually letting her go with two weeks of supplies. And that's her punishment, to go back to the service world, where she'll surely die, in their opinion. Maximus then makes it, like, makes his grand entrance, at that moment. And then Lucy and Maximus leaves. I do, again, appreciate the number of times when, even though Lucy is very naive, she still, there is a part of Maximus that she sees through. So she. She tells him right away, you got to give that. That fusion back to. Back to them, because you can't be a knight if you stole, stole that. Like, that's not the knightly thing to do. And so, so they get over that bump and then go about their way. So, so that is. That is the Lucy and Maximus part of this episode. We'll get back to them a little bit later. That ties into a different aspect of the episode a little bit better. then we got. See another thing that happened more in these last two episodes than in previous. We got a lot of ghoul present day versus ghoul flashback.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Oh, so, okay, well, the present day doesn't really matter. He. He kills a kid.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean, basically, yeah, the present day go, that was sort of it just. He. It helps him get to what he's been trying for.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: To get the moldavor. And that was pretty much it. And then, I mean, there was, ah. and it does go back to the flashbacks, which really, flesh out.

>> Will: Some of the things that we've been theorizing about, and some of the things we've gotten confirmed and other things that, you know, really get the flashbacks really color what we're seeing.

>> Sarah : In present day mul Daver and Cooper talkeva, hints that she knows part of Barb that he does not. And she basically hires him to spy on his wife for the better. Good, because, barb and vault tec stole cold fusion energy, which is infinite energy, which is something that she and her fellow scientists were working on. But Vault tec bought it because it would be a resource that would end the war and basically make Vaultech sales go down, because they are, it would be the downfall of their business model, so to speak. So that was basically what was going on where it's like Coop has been conflicted between his wife and curious. And he started raise more questions about Vaulteq. Moldavir comes in, offers some answers, some insight, without telling him everything. And, because she knows he can be a pawn in her overall game. So that's what's going on in the background. And we'll see more about the spying that happens in the last episode.

>> Will: Yeah. One of the cool things I liked about that whole sequence, though, with Cooper at the time, was, really. And it really, to m me, sort of sets up how the ghoul. Well, how Cooper and Lucy are, even though a 200 year set apart. There's a lot. There's a lot of similarities in their personalities as far as, like, as far, you know, Cooper has this sort of purity to himself as far as, like, you know, whenever he was sitting there hearing Miss Moldeboro, I guess at the time, she was calling herself Miss Williams, like, talk about the, evils of corporate greed and all that kind of stuff. And they were trying to, you know, the whole red scare kind of stuff, you know, and, you know, he was like, I've heard enough of your bullshit. You know, he's all. He's all that patriotism, and it's a lot, you know, we see that in present day with Lucy, too, with her, you know, whenever she has some. Her earlier encounters with the folks in Philly and Maximus and others. so I liked the way they were doing those, sort of setting up those parallels with the. With the two characters.

>> Sarah : yes, yes, I do, too. that brings us to Thaddeus. Who? Thaddeus. You came, and he went. I mean, okay, I'm just going to say this. Now. Thaddeus biggest crime in this whole show was putting the dog in the fridge.

>> Will: Yes.

>> Sarah : The moment he did that. Yeah. Kill him.

>> Will: Yeah, kill him. Kill him. He got what he deserved, becoming a ghoul.

>> Sarah : Seriously. And then, like, the dog did nothing to him. Yeah. He just sticks him in the fridge.

>> Will: Yeah, the dog. Yeah. I mean, you're, you know, Thaddeus is a dumbass that got his foot crushed by Maximus whenever fighting over the armor, so, yeah, and.

>> Sarah : And then by the end of the episode, an arrow through. Through the throat, not dead. Turns out he became a ghoul. And then. And then he did get shot. Right?

>> Will: He. Yeah, he did, I think. Yeah. And, yeah. Healed, and. Yeah, so he. He ran, of course, just like true night Titus. He ran.

>> Sarah : Right, right. He. He ran far, because the brotherhood was arriving, and, they would not accept a ghoul in their knighthood for sure. So. So that leaves Lucy and Maximus, who also happen to show up, m because Lucy has that tracker of the head. And so there they again, very conveniently wind up at the right time to get the head and then also find another head that Maximus decides to, to use to give to the Brotherhood while he sends Lucy to go find her father with the real head. There's a lot of heads. Suddenly we're just talking about clones now. We're talking about a lot of headless people.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And. And he. And he has her go about her way, and he'll. He'll deal with the brotherhood the best that he can. so. So we have a splitting of past. A lot of people have come together and then suddenly break apart leading up to the finale. anything you want to talk about? Thaddeus, I mean, he. He just. He served some purposes of getting, like, maximus to certain points.

>> Will: So the one thing about the one we. I know, we. We jumped right to him becoming a ghoul, but it was the snake oil salesman who. Where he, you know, he made the exchange for the culture. Mark Max and misses Armour's cold fusion pack with that. With the snake oil salesman. And, that, you know, we. That that guy has. The snake oil salesman has been a recurring character throughout this. This first season. So, you know, I'm just trying to, like, you know, and now that he has a cold fusion unit and, I'm just wondering, like, where he's. Is he going to turn up next. As far as the overall story, he's.

>> Sarah : The big bad of season three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he's going to be collecting these little things along the way through all these different interactions, and that he's going to build. Build something for season three that's going to end the world.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, but, But, yeah, as far as idea something for sure. Something for sure, yeah. but, yeah, like I said, he got what he deserved. especially whenever. Whenever they went through that barter, I was like, yeah, yeah, you dumbass.

>> Sarah : He was so smart, and then he got real stupid real quick. So what you gonna do? He was infected with ghoul poisoning.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : the last story arc that we need to touch on before getting to the final episode is what was going on in vault 33 with Norm and friends. And, to start off that discussion, I'm just going to say, remember, wherever you end up, that's where you belong. vault 32 repopulation begins, where norm, surprisingly stays in vault 33, and Chet and Steph are reassigned to vault 32. And, you know, I like the quote unquote farewell, but I have a feeling we're going to see Chad again in season two because how can we not, for a character you, like, could just, like, not have around, they let him have a really solid last line. as Norm says to chet, you're a coward. And Chet's response is, we all are. That's why we're in a vault. Ah, duh.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : For someone who seemed not that self aware, he became very self aware in that final moment.

>> Will: He did. He really did.

>> Sarah : He really did. And meanwhile, the prisoners in vault 33 have been poisoned with, rat poison, which then just leads to norm pulling a norm. And just. I love how the overseer like that room, because I feel like this is at least the second or third time norm's found himself in there alone for an extended period of time. There's no protection. I mean, granted, a lot of their population has been wiped out in this vault, but still, the security.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I mean, the security. He knew how to hack into our system. I mean, I guess his dad was an overseer, so I guess he maybe picked up a few tricks along the way.

>> Sarah : But still, it also doesn't seem like the most advanced technology in a weird way. Yeah, yeah, but. And now that we know who he was talking to, it even makes a little bit more sense. Yeah, but, but, yeah. Norm hacks in, giving his best impression of being the overseer. Betty. and. And they allow him to return to vault 31 so he can figure out what's. What's in there. and they just leave you with a close up shot of Norm reacting to something, and that will be discussed in the next episode. But overall, a pretty decent penultimate episode. Yeah, yeah, it was m. In comparison, they did a much better job, in my opinion, in the finale. but. But there was a lot of necessary things to have happened here to get you to where you needed everyone to be for the finale.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And something you said at the beginning, whenever we started talking about this episode, it does feel like. Like they almost like we're going to have ten episodes. And then Amazon and then the cat. They got word back. No, it's only eight. So then they had to really, like, shuffle a lot of things and pack a lot into this penultimate, but, yeah, but as far as penultimate episodes go, it definitely was, one of the better ones I've seen.

>> Sarah : Yeah. and that brings us to episode eight, the beginning. 200 years have passed since the beginning of the apocalypse, and leaving the atomic shelter that protected them will pave the wave to an unknown world that will unleash a war of, survival. Ghoul flashback. Again, this is not in order because they went all over the place. But we're starting with the ghoul flashback, where we. We meet Bud askins again. We remake Bud Askins. And then, you know what he names drops? Buds. Buds.

>> Will: Yep. I don't have kids, so this is my way.

>> Sarah : This is my way. And Barb. And so Coop decides spy on his wife, on behalf of Moldavor. And so he puts the listening device in Barb's pip boy.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : and, I'm sorry, but that was not smart because she's a scientist. She gonna figure it out. Yeah. I actually am kind of mad at the writers the more I think about this. She should have figured it out before the meeting happened. But whatever. I get it. It was necessary. But, like, logically, she was already. She already knew in the parking lot something was going on with, single of her pip boy. And so she just decides to wear a malfunctioning pip boy into a meeting like that meeting. Really, really. A bit flawed, but whatever, it works.

>> Will: Plot convenience.

>> Sarah : Yeah, plot convenience. I've been saying that word a lot with the show. I do. I did like this these last two episodes. But I'm gonna call a plot convenience. A plot convenience.

>> Will: Yes. Yes, you do. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing as I was watching, and I was like, especially there in the parking lot when she was, you know, with the thing acted up. I was like, and then. And then, bud, just, like, conveniently, like, you know, oh, no, no, no. This all, you know, basically excuses it. And so I was just like, yeah, all right. Where's this going?

>> Sarah : Yeah, but my m my thing about Bob is, they haven't made him to appear to be real smart, even though he kind of is. But it's just, it's that. It's that annoying villain where you're like, you are so stupid. Stupid how? Like, I shouldn't. I shouldn't think that you're capable of getting to this much power. So I don't. And I don't really understand how, but I don't know.

>> Will: Well, I mean, this goes to what I was, like, talking about the series that's from the very beginning, which is, it's a lot, a lot as many ways. It's like the boys, where it's a commentary on. On society and some of the things that we see, you know, as far as mediocre people. You know, it was the Peter principal, the middleman, you know, the guy who, you know, just falls into the job or. Yeah. And also just, you know, the corporatism and, you know, sometimes it's a tragedy. I mean, but also, at the same time, it's comedy, you know, some satire thing. So, I mean, this is a very. There's a lot of things that are wrapped up in this show.

>> Sarah : Yeah, it's just. It's just hard for me when you bring up the boys comparison, because all I can think is, yeah, but the boys do it so much better.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Like, like, fair enough. Like, it's one thing to make a comparison where this show does it better, but I'm like, no, but I understand what you're saying. And, I mean, during this meeting, we. We hear about a little bit more about buds. Buds in a weird way. and we hear the drop of the, three volt theory, which, essentially, it turns out that, vaults 32 and 33 are the breeding pools for vault 31, which. Vault 31 is buds. Buds.

>> Will: Yep. And which also, is management, which.

>> Sarah : Hank McLean.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Hank McLean. Who? I don't. I didn't really like this whole. Let me introduce you to Henry. Oh. Like, but everyone calls me Hank. I'm like, but. But we've heard Henry's name so much throughout, like, leading up to this, you couldn't. You should have named the character something different that would make a little bit more. But I don't know, it just took me off. I'm just like, oh, that's, that's another weird convenience. Oh, but everyone calls me Hank.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, but, you know, but again, but our theory, even though we thought he was maybe president, but, you know, he. He was management, but, but the ghoul. And, you know, he does have ties back to 200 years ago, so.

>> Sarah : Oh, yeah, but we've known that for a few episodes.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, but it was just. It was. It was, It was cool to get it confirmed, but also. It also, when I heard the line, you know, with the whole management, as far as with. Whenever they were in this, you know, in this doctor strangelove esque meeting, It, I, couldn't help but think about when Norm and Chet saw the down with management painted in ball 32.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. And, and we, like the. I think one of the first few things that Bud askins ever says on the show when he first encounters Coop is, to survive this to. The key to survival is time. And he adds on management. And so that. And I think that's right. The episode where they first go into the vault and norm sees down with management. So they're, They planted all of the seeds.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And. And this is something where the biggest thing that comes out of this whole eavesdropping scenario between Coop and Barb, though, is, is that Vaultec actually dropped the bomb.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : That caused the apocalypse now.

>> Will: And,

>> Sarah : Yeah, this is my thing about this show. And I mentioned this last week too, for whatever reason. All of these oh, my God moments, there's something about the timing of them. They're not hitting me. I was not shocked. I was not, like, like, I don't. I think I truly believe that my response is not the response a writer would want a viewer to have to everything that happened in that whole entire conversation. And not necessarily saying it's because it was written bad. I'm just saying for whatever reason, there's something about the timing of these, of, how they're revealing the information, the build up to it, that is just not hitting me the way it should.

>> Will: I complete, I agree with you, but I completely agree with you with the Tommy, because I think that's something that I think these, these last two episodes both had issues with. As you noted at the beginning. it just. Yeah, but I will say that even though the timing. I completely agree was off as far as, like, when you drop a big reveal that it was Barb who came up with the plan to like, wipe off, wipe the surface clean of the earth as far as, you know, the undesirables or whatever. Walter Coggins, hearing that moment, sold it for me.

>> Will: So that even though the timing was off, the, both Barb and the actress who played Barb and Ann Coggins just sold it for me. I was just like, oh, fuck.

>> Sarah : Wow.

>> Will: It did. I mean, and so it over. So their performance helped to overcome for me the bad element of timing m in the story.

>> Sarah : That's fair. That's fair.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And, and she, she also. What we learn and why, like, there are good vaults and bad vaults is because they turn. They're having this meeting is with their competitors who are then given some of the vaults in return for large investments and they're able to do whatever crazy idea for humanity they have in those vaults. And so, like, you're starting to understand more of, ah, about vault world and vault land and how it came to be and why there are good and bad vaults and not every vault is. Is the same. and it just reconfirms that the vaults that Lucy and were first introduced to are, like, true vault tec vaults. Think that like 500 times faster.

>> Will: Vault four was the, guy who. Yeah, we saw the scientists, we saw the company that came up in vault for.

>> Sarah : Yes, definitely. And while this is all going on. Okay. Because again, this episode, it's edited. Very heavily edited. Very heavily. because we have a flashback, and we have present day Lucy finally coming to meet Moldevor at the observatory, which. And she walks through gates, and the first thing I see is corn.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Corn. And she makes her way up to the stairs.

>> Will: And also, one of the ghouls that she saved at the,

>> Sarah : I knew. I knew one of the. Somebody, like, a ghoul recognized her. I just wasn't sure how or anything, but. Okay, that makes sense. And then. And then we get. We get, Moldevor is having dinner with a ghoul, kind of chained down, a very old ghoul, and Hank is in a cage. Okay, can I. I just want to say one thing. This is arguably their worst set.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : So bad.

>> Will: The oversized birdcage was a bit much.

>> Sarah : It was.

>> Will: The rest of it. The rest of it was fine. But the bird cage was a bit much.

>> Sarah : I don't know. It's just. It was. It all felt so fake. It all felt so fake. and so, like, oh, we didn't have enough money, so we just threw some stuff together. I'm m. Like, oh, I can see. Okay. And. And it turns out this is, like, the. The community, getting brought up from the ashes. That was, shady sands.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Okay. And we learn a bit more about the shady sands history and its link to the McLean's, as it turns out, Lucy's mom. now, will, you're gonna have to stop me if I'm getting these things wrong, but. So Lucy finds out that Hank's a part of management.

>> Will: Correct.

>> Sarah : Okay. And then Lucy or her mom takes her kids to the surface world.

>> Will: Correct.

>> Sarah : Okay, prediction for season two. There's gonna be a moment where they do a flashback where Maximus and Lucy knew each other as children. Anyway, during this, she never. It never crosses her mind that her. Her husband, like, he might seek vengeance. He might want his kids back. Who. And he does, to the point where he burns down shady sands and takes back his kids. And, hit. And Lucy's mom is the ghoul that Moldavor is having dinner with. Yep, yep.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The little reveal with the necklace there. I was like, oh, okay.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. And it's just. And. And this and Lucy for the next 40 minutes in complete, anytime, serious state of shock.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. That was pretty much. Lucy's role in this episode was just basically like, I'm just gonna yell. Everybody's gonna yell at me to, like, make it. Make a decision. Make. Pick a side. Pick a side.

>> Sarah : Well, it wasn't just that. It was. It was like, that's a lot of revelations. Yeah, for Lucy. And she's just processing. And so as people are yelling at her about decisions like it's me or your father, it's this or that. She's just. She, in her own mind, is rewriting who she thought her dad was, and it's like trying to understand this and what this all means. and so I think the actress did a pretty good job playing that off. She did, and everything. they need to recast Hank, maybe. I don't know. He's a bit annoying to me. I think that's the point, and it always is the point, but I have to call it what it is. so what else? Okay. And Moldavir needed Hank to get the code to get to access the cold fusion that was in the vial. That, guy will zig. Will Zigger, will zig shoved, in his head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Accurate, accurate. and so while Lucy is all finding this out, I'm pretty sure there's a couple of the coup flashbacks spliced in there. And then also, we're getting both of these things while we're also getting involved. 31. Norm meeting. But ask him. The brain.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : The brain.

>> Will: Buds. Buds meets, and buds, brains.

>> Sarah : And see, this is what I'm talking about. So it made sense to me in episode eight why there was a lack of, security around the overseer's office, because. Are you kidding me? You're gonna protect the management with a brain in a box? Who's gonna immediately like this? Got a bit hokey for me.

>> Will: I'm going to stick you with this. So you're getting chased by a roomba? I mean, come on.

>> Sarah : No, it's not even a chase. It's like a, fast walk. Yeah, and Norm's not really a fast walker. He had no pressure on him whatsoever.

>> Will: Yeah, I think it's the absurdity of it at the moment. I guess maybe that's what they were going for. and it was. I was just like, really?

>> Sarah : At first, I was like, oh, cool, cool. And then it went on. And then the more I realized that, because the longer it went on, the more I realized, no, no, no. They seriously just left a brain in a box. Protect their biggest arguably secret. I don't understand.

>> Will: Well, I think it shows the flaw in their plan.

>> Sarah : I don't know. I mean, because at the end of the day, Norm took his dad's pod, right?

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, because.

>> Sarah : Because as bad of a security the brain is, he does manage to lock dorm in vault 31 and tells him, go take a nap.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Which, I mean, yeah, I guess, I mean, I guess it's worked for 200 years.

>> Sarah : I guess it has. I mean, what they haven't explained. And I'm curious about this, because when.

>> Will: An overseer comes out, you know, they breed, and then I guess they're next in line. Just takes their spot.

>> Sarah : Yeah, but here. Here's what I was going to say, will, is what they haven't explained. And, I'm wondering now with season two, if we're going to get into this, because in present day. Spoiler alert. Moldavor's dead.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Did mo m. Was Moldavir, like, how did she survive for 200 years?

>> Will: That's. That's a good question.

>> Sarah : They did not. They did not tell us that at all.

>> Will: I mean, I assume she was in a cryo pod, but maybe. Maybe she was in one of the cryopods in vault four. Maybe.

>> Sarah : That's right. Well, but not all vaults are the same.

>> Will: Yeah, true.

>> Sarah : Like. Like, that was a vault x, so we don't know what. And a lot of. A lot of the people that we met in vault four were surface. Were previous surface people.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Well, yeah, yeah. So. So we don't know. And we also don't know how many vault tec vaults there are.

>> Will: Right.

>> Sarah : Granted, Hank. Hank is flying towards something.

>> Will: Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess the observatory was. So, I, guess the headquarters of the new California Republic. So maybe. So maybe the NCR was. You know, Moldavir's group was maybe sort of the forerunners of that. So maybe she. Maybe they had cryer tech. I mean, clearly, she developed cold fusion, so she had a means to be able to. To.

>> Sarah : Again, I'm not. I'm not doubting she didn't have a means. I'm just. I'm just like. I'm like, that's a question I want answered sooner rather than later, especially because she's dead in present day. So we just got to understand what's happening. all right, so we talked about Norm and the vault, and this brings us back to Maximus.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and this will carry us home because. Because brotherhood kind of was a lot in this episode. We got a lot of brotherhood, Maximus, who are very forgiving people. Like, it's weird. You get this impression from Maximus Thaddeus, and, we learn his name. What was the guy who hurt his foot?

>> Will: Oh, they, They. Dane.

>> Sarah : Dane. Dane.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : We get this impression that the brotherhood should be feared, and, like, they're not forgiving. And yet Dane, like, immediately tells in order to save Maximus, immediately tells them that he hurt himself, and then receives punishment for it. And then meanwhile, Maximus manages to talk his way out of this current predicament because he does know where the head is, even though he gave Lucy the head. So he still. But the elder is just like, I don't like you. You're a liar. You did all these bad things, but, but you do have information, so you're going to stay alive and, and then have this very long conversation. And, and you know what? After reconsideration, I not only think you should be a part of the brotherhood and our family fight to get this, this head and this relic, as he kept referring to it as. But I also think that you can rebuild the brotherhood with me.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's funny. So the actor who plays the elder cleric actually remember he was the evil core guy in Mister Robot.

>> Sarah : You know, it took me all of this season in this episode where I was like, I know that face. And then when I looked it up on IMDb, I'm like, you bastard.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, yeah, I was like, where did I know? And, yeah, and I was like. And then it just like, it clicked. I didn't even have to look at IMDb. I was like, this to do for Mister robot because it.

>> Sarah : Don't gloat. Don't gloat. Granted, the series finale, mister Rover.

>> Will: No, no. It's just like, ah, that's why it worked so well.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I don't know. I would. For me, it didn't work that well. It was fine, but it just, I don't know. I'm still not as attached. I like the fact that the end, when, and I'm kind of jumping ahead, but whatever. Yeah, when Maximus ends up getting knocked out during the fight and, and then he gets abandoned by, by Lucy and the ghoul and, but when he wakes up, Moldavir uses cold fusion because she gets the code, to light up the city. And on all your left here is, all hail Maximus, which is a chant that Dane starts. And so I think overall, Maximus has a very, like, good storyline. Yeah, I don't, but, like, now, in retrospect, looking at it back from start to finish, I'm like, okay, that's, that's a good arc.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And I can see how the brotherhood ties in, but it, this arc was never my favorite. Like, like, while watching and enjoying the show for what it is, I just was always like, ah, man, we're back in the freaking brotherhood. Why can't we be in a flashback or someplace else or stuck in a vault? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I get what they were going for. And Maximus definitely grew on me as a character, but at the same time, there were too many other elements that grabbed more of my attention, and I was more attached to and I thought were more interesting. where if I do a ranking, he, he and the brotherhood, and by the end of it, it's brotherhood is just dragging him down. Would end up in laugh. But.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I love to that point. I mean, that. I think so. So for me, actually, I had the same art, same, arc of feelings that you did, but I actually, I was just, like, I came out. I agree. I don't like the brotherhood, but I like Maximus. And that expression that he had on his face at the end there when he finally, like, you know, when knighthood was. Because it was so many things going on because with, because he was trying to tell Dane, no, no, no. And then, of course, they. And then Dane proclaims this. And, and, yeah. So that, to me, was, like, in Maximus face in that moment, I was like, okay, yeah, I like this character. he became my sort of, you know, my co mvp of the season.

>> Sarah : Well, it's also his reaction when Lucy tells him that her dad, was responsible for what happened to shady stance.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : So, so I I really appreciated how they, how all three actors handled that situation.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and, and then to parallel that with, at the end, like, both Lucy and Maximus, they get what they want, but then their journeys cause them to start to want at something else, which is then, in a way, sacrificed or put on the back burner because they got what they originally wanted. So it's an interesting, situation to be in because, well, now you got what you wanted, but you've already moved on to new dream, so what are you going to do now?

>> Will: Exactly. Exactly. And also, just the parallels between Hank, between, Lucy, Maximus, and even the ghoul, like, everybody's worlds just got blown up at different points, you know, the ghouls 200 years ago.

>> Sarah : Yeah. And he still, and he's still hung up on his wife because we learn. We really learn at the end that, that. And I'm so glad that next season, we're going to get more Lucy and the ghouls. I don't think there was enough of it, but understandably so. But still, I really like them together. And because the ghoul tells Lucy that, that he, he wants to go find his family. Like, that's what that has been. What has he's been looking for.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : This whole time. And, and it kind of clicks because they're like, okay, so where are. But seriously, where are they? Granted, I can't help but just remember he was with Janie the day of the apocalypse.

>> Will: Right.

>> Sarah : At that. so, so when he, he didn't say barb, he didn't say his wife. He said my family.

>> Will: Right.

>> Sarah : So I just, I wonder. I wonder, I'm curious about how they're going to maneuver out of that or what explanation we're going to get, especially if Janie's alive.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : And, and also where that, where they split up on that day.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, clearly. Yeah, because like I said, he's with that scene where, with the reveal, you know, was the bomb dropped shortly after that or was it weeks after? You know, it's so many, so many outstanding questions that, that we have there for, for the upcoming season.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. They, they did this season. I'm so glad there's going to be a season two.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And I've said this the entire time, we've been talking about this show, this season as a prologue, and we got a lot of meat in these last two episodes, but, and I just applaud them for calling this the episode, the beginning. We're only getting started, like. Yeah, I mean, as you put. I'm pretty sure because I know I didn't write this, like, the final little tease is new Vegas, which we're gonna, we're gonna become familiar with in, in season two. So now, has, to your knowledge, has season two already been shot or just greenlit?

>> Will: It was just, it was just greenlit.

>> Sarah : Okay. It was just greenlit. Well, so that means it'll be another five.

>> Will: Yeah, we're probably looking at probably 2026, I think, 2020.

>> Sarah : Yeah. I mean, granted, Amazon, you know, I think, over the years, Amazon prime, they definitely have a style. You can tell visually, this is an Amazon produced show.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : And I mean, you can also tell, like, arguably thematically, they have figured out, what their brand is, especially with new content and original content. and, yeah, for all intents and purposes, their original content is pretty consistent.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, they have. Yeah, it is. It is. I completely agree.

>> Sarah : And made for adults.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I find that really interesting that, like, when you talk about this show, because there was a nudist, ritual scene that I could have gone without. When you talk about the boys Gen v. There is a lot of this is adult content that arguably, a decade ago, would have been on HBO.

>> Will: Yeah, it would have been. It would have been.

>> Sarah : Invincible cartoons for adults.

>> Will: Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. All right, well, that leaves, That is it for us tonight. Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

>> Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formally known as twitterillmpolk. Ah m wilm mpolk.

>> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at sjbelmont sjblmt m. Please follow our crew on twitterinardfriend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and m threads at seen underscore n nerd, and visit our website, www.sceneanderdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.

>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont. And with me, as always, is our mister producer, Will Polk. How are you doing tonight, will?

>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?

>> Sarah : I'm doing good. I mean, we're recording on a Monday. Yeah, this is a first.

>> Will: It's been a long time. It's been a very long time.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the long time listeners feel free to comment if you do feel like this was the first, because, I don't know, there's something inside of me. It's telling me that it is definitely, definitely. Maybe once or twice before. Nothing more. Like it's a rarity to be recording on a Monday.

>> Will: Yeah, it's probably. It's definitely post 2020, for sure. I think maybe we did it. It was like before the pandemic.

>> Sarah : And that's a whole lifetime ago.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. For real.

>> Sarah : It feels like it. to kick things off, Will wants to talk about how they're greenlighting a season two for Shogun.

>> Will: Well, maybe. Maybe things are. Whereas before, it was looking like it was a limited series, and that was it. Thursday or Friday last week, we got word that Hiroki Sanada, who was the producer and also actor who played Toranaga on Shogun, signed a if calm deal with FX, which basically is, if they can get all the other pieces to come together, then they will have a second season of the show. And so, that's where things stand at this point. I know there was a lot of. Some tea leaves sort of brewing last week with the, also with the Emmy nominations, because Emmy nominations for. For your considerations had to be in on, May 9. And so there was also some movement from. To move the show from the limited series category to the drama category. So there's a lot of things in the air, but, But right now, we do have Tornado, Arrow, key, Sonata signed to a contract, so that if everything else on the business side and I guess that the showrunners can come back and. And come up with a good story for a second season, then, yeah, we may get a. May get a second season of Shogun.

>> Sarah : Well. Well, that's. I feel like that's the same thing you told me for at least the last episode, because I felt, I think, if I recall correctly, our conversations about Shogun season one, about episode five. I started asking, so, will there be season two? Will there be a season two?

>> Will: A lot of people were asking, will there be a season two? And at the time, it was. The plan was just to do the one season, but obviously it has done. It did very, very well. I think it for FX. And of course, it was also streaming on Hulu and Disney plus and star. So you know, the streaming numbers, I think it was one of. One of the highest performers.

>> Sarah : Yeah, it definitely hit out at the right time. There was not much else going on earlier this year, so. So we shall see if that comes true.

Jeff Snyder reports that Sigourney Weaver is in talks to join Grogu

Jeff Snyder has reported that Sigourney Weaver is in talks to join the Mandalorian and Grogu. That's so weird to say. The Mandalorian and Grogu.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I know.

>> Sarah : Just call it Grogu.

>> Will: Yeah. That's all. That's the only thing everybody cares about. I think I actually saw on social media today, I think, the Mandalorian was trending. Not for this news, but I think it was maybe the trademark or something of when they trademarked grogu.

>> Sarah : Not even that. It's just that there's the mandalorian show, right? So we're so used to saying the Mandalorian that now it's like, oh, but now we're gonna make a movie and we're just gonna attach the little guy's name on it and that'll be different. But you still start off by saying the name of the tv show, and then it's like, oh, yeah, to add in and grow group.

>> Will: Yeah. I can just even make it simpler for Lucasfilms. Just call it the baby Yoda movie, and then everybody will know what you're talking about.

>> Sarah : Ah. Mg.

>> Will: Exactly.

>> Sarah : Mg. M mg adventures. Like, come on. I don't know.

>> Will: Yeah, but, Yeah, but Snyder broke this news, Friday night, and, Hollywood reporter confirmed it as well. And so, yeah, I guess things are in talk for her to joined a cast. And, of course, we don't know who she'll be playing at this point, but, love to hear from our listeners as far as Star wars fans and theories on who you think she may end up playing in this movie. Whenever, whenever they start filming, which I believe they're supposed to start filming, maybe later this year. So. Yeah. Yeah. That's the latest from the Star wars land.

>> Sarah : So will this be a theatrical?

>> Will: Yes.

>> Sarah : Yes, please. Okay. Damn it.

>> Will: 2020. I think they were going to. Originally, I was going to be 2025, but I want to say they, have pushed it back to 2026.

>> Sarah : Still too soon. so when do we start taking bets on the runtime? this is going to be a three hour movie. That really should have been like an hour and a half.

>> Will: No, that's. No, that's what they should have done with, like, ahsoka to a theatrical release. Cause it was. Yeah, those runtimes with those 20 minutes shows. But I guess the acolyte is also doing that too, where I'm fully aware.

>> Sarah : Of, like, darkness does not learn from it. Mistakes, like, too early enough to prevent repeating them. No, he had, the acolyte in the works. It was too late to go back.

>> Will: Yeah.

One little grumble about the acolyte before the show drops

Yeah, speaking of the acolyte. So I have to do one little grumble and then we can move on to X Men and fallout. so I was watching a game, game yesterday, one of the basketball games Cameron R. Was playing. It was one of the blowouts. But anyway, they had another, just a little teaser for the acolyte, and it was one with Carrie Anne Moss. And I know during Star wars day, I was like, oh, there. I'm feeling a little bit better about this thing after watching the little teaser yesterday where I just felt like, well, damn, if I didn't know any better. I thought it was the matrix part ten because it was just, I think, I may be my words, but I feel like it was a miscast to bring in Carrie Moss or it was just a miss. It was like Apple in their iPad advertising last week where they just. The vibes. It was like she was doing trinity stuff and I was just like, okay, it's Trinity again. I don't know, but that's just a grumble about Star wars for the day.

>> Sarah : Yeah, we're probably going to hear that grumble at least a few more times before. Before the show drops. I'm not necessarily saying it's going to be from you, but I'm sure a lot of people are going to make that comparison. It's hard not to. I mean, you have arian, moss doing like, fight choreo.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And I believe, like, it's commonly known matrix. Like, took some, took some inspiration from Star wars. So it. It's like, yeah, of course. Like, and they. They did it on purpose. Like, Cassie was not. Not. Oh.

>> Sarah : I wonder who should play this part. No, no. They, they knew when they cast her that they would get that comparison and potentially draw in people just because they want to watch Carrie Ann moss, kicks mass. So. So. But at the end of the day, there's going to be so many other little things that I'm going to find because will's making me watch at least two or three episodes of this thing. Before we're going to go on a hiatus. And. And this is my grumble that I know we're going to put a pin in, but I'm just going to say this to you now. We're going to have a conversation about how I was never the completionist, but I don't like the fact that the acolyte is going to become the second show we start, and then we potentially return to.

>> Will: Well, there's just this little thing called, you know, house of the dragon and the boys.

>> Sarah : I understand all of that. I just don't know why we can't finish up invincible. But that's, ah, again, conversation for another time.

>> Will: Yeah, we'll get to that. Well, we'll have to talk after the show.

>> Sarah : As far as our scheduling, there might be some negotiations.

>> Will: Yeah.

X Men 97, episode three, fire made flesh. The visitor was a clone

>> Sarah : all right, that brings us to X Men 97, episode three, fire made flesh. The visitor was a clone. No, the visitor was the real Jean Grey. And it turns out the clone was with us the whole time.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Dun dun dun dun dun dun.

>> Will: yeah, speaking of invincible, I couldn't help but think when I was reading your show notes, I happened to think about the clones in that show. Which one was first?

>> Sarah : I didn't think about that at all because those characters, for some reason, have never, like, resonated with me. I never, never thought about them. the synopsis for this episode is when a visitor arrives at the mansion with the dangerous secret that threatens Cyclops and Jean's relationship. The team is propelled into a tragic confrontation with an immortal mad scientist, aka Mister sinister. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I couldn't help but just think about how there's been a few. Has there been at least one or two teases in, like, the MCU of Mister Sinister?

>> Will: Maybe in, maybe like, doctor strange? Maybe.

>> Sarah : Maybe. I just, vaguely feel like there's.

>> Will: Been, or maybe what if.

>> Sarah : Yeah, a few recent and maybe a few, like, really old.

>> Sarah : like, really old. And. And there. Granted, there's a few. Sony. Sony does a weird thing. I don't know if Sony would ever bring up Mister sinister, I'm not sure. But, But for those who have been in the shadows just waiting, this was an episode for you because it featured a lot of Mister Sinister. This felt like more of a one off episode than the previous two. And so I'm kind of glad I was reflecting on yesterday when I watched it. I'm glad we, we got this one over with because I know that there's some, some two parters headed our way as we make our way through the season. So this, I can see what it was doing mainly for cyclops and Jean Grey. And then we have the, storm tease at the end. At the same time, it very much followed a villain of the week format.

>> Will: It did, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was a very. I really did like the episode, though. I mean, I think the, with Mister Sinister and also with this, with, with the clone, with real Gene showing up and, and of course, the whole, you know, the team being sort of already kind of, unbalanced because we have. They're still dealing with the disappearance of Professor X. And of course, Magneto is, take is now the leader of the team and Scott sort of gene, we're already in trying to transition mode out of the team, so. And then their whole world gets turned upside down whenever real Gene shows up because they're already like, oh, man, we got it. We're already trying to try to wrap our heads around, like, nino being our leader. Now you're throwing this on us, right? Yeah, yeah. I like the way that this episode just sort of started out with, with that and, and, and also just, you know, Scott's already having sort of a crisis of confidence and trust and things. And then now you're throwing this at him. And, and also, you know, he references like, you know, his background, as far as, like, loose not having his father around and that kind of stuff. So it was a lot. It was a lot packed into this episode.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. They, they did a good job with pulling on all of the threads about trust issues. And, that comes when you introduce a clone into the team or like this. We. This idea that you don't know when one was started and like, you do know. You do know which one gave birth to Nathan. Yes, but then. And then also. But it was a clone. And like, does that. Ah, but yeah, it's just, it's very confusing. And so they. I understand the focus. And, they, they did bring in the team enough to where when they were, when clone. Clone Jean goes, What does she refer to herself as? It was. Stupidest name ever. Goblin queen.

>> Will: Yeah, goblin queen.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. When she goes berserk on all of them and starts messing with their minds and showing them their fears. And, there was one fear, so I didn't. I didn't really. I guess Morse fear was mister sinister. Yeah. Okay. What in the heck was beast fear?

>> Will: I didn't. So beast sphere, I didn't really register pick up on what it was. I mean, yeah.

>> Sarah : Ah, because morphs was the elevator, right?

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : I would have been afraid of that too, in all honesty, but. But Beast also did not react afraid and so everyone else's was kind of predictable what it was. I I didn't really like the whole gambit of it all. I mean, I know I have a feeling where this is headed, but I also don't think it was necessary, to continue watering that seed. But we'll see what happens later on the season. And we're only on episode three with that.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : So, yeah, go ahead.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as far as the whole gambit with Magneto and Rogue's, relationship, they were. They were definitely pulling in some, basically pulling into the animated series, something canon that is. That that was the storyline in a comic. So, you know, so I did, you know, so to your point, they. That that thread will that seed will, you know, cultivate and grow throughout the series, I'm sure.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. M what else happened? So. Okay. Bishop.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Is it just me or did he just magically appear in this episode?

>> Will: So we saw him in the first.

>> Sarah : One for like how long?

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And then we saw during the trial, I mean, we just see him briefly whenever Magneto was. Whenever they were in the United nations and they were fighting off the, xenophobes, with the trial and stuff. But, you know, but then we do get bishops back. You know, we do finally get to see his. His time bracelets and they. And they're getting repaired. And of course we saw the. His sort of backstory with his sister and, you know, with all with with all the visions that the goblin queen was, you know, messing with everybody's mind. but I guess really the bigger point with him in this story, I think, was just he was the MacGuffin to basically take Nathan to the future so he can. Because since the sinister, you know, infected him with the, tech virus, that enables them to be later become cabled, you know, they can only treat it in the future. So, which, you know, as a parent, I was just like that. I will say that, that that, you know, this is not your Saturday morning kids show anymore. They're definitely like pulling on some more darker, darker themes in this series.

>> Sarah : Yeah, that was kind of my point of being, like, I barely remember him in the first two episodes. And then suddenly there was like all of this. Like he was. He was just there and very present and I'm like, what are we doing with Bishop here? And then at the end, I'm like, okay, I get it. I understand. But it kind of. I'm like, why couldn't we got some of that stuff earlier on, too? So it wasn't just like a pull at the heartstrings because Nathan, has to get taken away, but, like, bishop goes. Is going with him, and it's. I don't know. But it did. Also, they answered our question that I posed at the very end last week. How long are we going to watch the X Men raise a baby?

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, there could have been some things that, that tie back to the animated series that I just. I just don't. Can't remember or just didn't watch.

>> Sarah : I am. I am sure there are, like. And I appreciate how. How they are not spoon feeding that. If you're really curious to go back and watch the original show, of course. But at the same time, I guess in terms of just this season overall and knowing that there's people who either haven't watched it or haven't watched in a very long time, that they may need to, get a little more connected to some of these characters who are going to have a big part in an episode, and then you're not going to see them because we might. I don't know. I have a feeling we're going to see Bishop later on this season, but I wouldn't also be surprised if we don't see him until season two again.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : So. So I do not know, is. Is there anything, like Mister sinister, royal destiny, blah, blah, blah. He's just another x Men villain. Like, there's Magneto and then there's everyone else, arguably, for villains.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, basically, this was a. This was sort of a bridge episode, I think, to pull, pull, pull together certain things from the first. Like you said, the. The first two were really got us in back into this universe. This one is sort of like, okay, we're going to carry some of the threads forward. We're going to introduce real Gene and then really blow up Scott's world. And then also, you know, they did tease Wolverine and, I guess, og, jeans, feelings for one another, and whenever she was there in the hospital room. And then. And then, of course, Madeline, you know, with. I guess they also introduced Madeline Pryor into the animated series universe, you know, putting that name canon in this universe as well from the comics as far as the clone gene, because that's, you know, again, that's, they are pulling from that universe as well. So I mean, there was a lot of things, like I said, there was a lot of things packed in this episode. And, you know, I'm not as steeped in my X men lore, but I know enough that I was like, oh, this. I got, you know, I made a lot of notes here as far as, like, things to keep an eye on for later in the season.

>> Sarah : That's good, because I do. I. We're so early that, and I. There's been some hype for me hearing from, like, kind of funny guys have brought up X Men before on their regular podcast, and. And so I do know that it's gonna get, like, really, really good. And we're just. Yeah, we're just in the setup mode. Like, get you back into the. To the rhythm of. Of watching X Men 97 and. And re familiarizing yourself with these characters and their polites. And. And you're right. like, it really is, like, okay, we have our first two beginning episodes. We need this bridge now to have the kid, get rid of the kid and then be on the way for this overall arcing that's going to pull out many threads. And. And they continue to do that thing that I really think is, for whatever reason endearing is at the very end where we're right back to storm and who. And she hears from a friend of an old friend of Charles Xavier's that he might be able to help her get back what she lost. So we're just getting started, and next week, we're going to talk about four or three episodes. I forget off the rundown, but it's an all X Men 97 podcast.

>> Will: That's right. Yeah. We'll have two weeks in a row of all X Men 97.

>> Sarah : Now we are going to wrap up our discussion about fallout season one with episode seven, the radio. Oh, will. Will. Well, like, I also had to organize.

>> Will: Oh, there was a lot. Again, I saw the run sheet and I was like, thank you. This makes it, I, like, I know we talked about this last week where the organization definitely helped, because there's so many plots going through in this show, like, and.

>> Sarah : We'Ll get into, like, the very last episode. But these last two episodes, it wasn't just that there were so many different. There was at least three or four storylines happening simultaneously. But in comparison to the previous episodes, there was so much more jumping all over the place, back and forth, left, right where I was like, okay. And then at the end, I had to think to myself, okay, so in what order makes the most logical sense? Because some of the times they cross over. Right and right over each other. So, so we're, we're, we're, we're trying to condense it into one arc at a time. Yes. That means that we might touch on a few ending beats earlier, but, you know, that's what happens. So. So we're going to start with the radio in vault four with Lucy Maximus. So Lucy got caught and she is imprisoned after seeing the experiments in level twelve and shown a video of her history.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : what did you think about this video of history where they basically are showing Lucy about how those experiments were the. They were the original vault four dwellers or. No, no, they what. Okay, what was the video?

>> Will: Yeah, my understanding of the video was the scientists. And this does touch on something. you mentioned before last week as far as what would happen if the scientists ended up running the world.

>> Sarah : Yes.

>> Will: And so these scientists were trying to create a hybrid human with the radioactive resistant creature. So they were making the golfers. The thing that we saw way back, I think, in earlier episodes, in that radioactive leak. Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : And, they were experimenting on vault dwellers or surface people.

>> Will: So, they were experimenting on, I think, a company, I think, vault welders because I think. Yeah, and I noticed. Yeah, because I think this, you know, then this does get into, things we learn later, but just to punt a pin in that. But this. Yeah, they. Yeah, we, they were, they were. These were the experiments that all the other vaults were doing. and we learned later about why that is the case.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. And, and then there's a very good question with no response of what was the experiment that occurred in vault 33? What was it?

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : they then take Lucy and they just so happen to take her down the hallway where Maximus can clearly see joyous popcorn.

>> Will: You know, I'm going to join a movie. Wasn't it a Cooper Howard movie? Was it a Cooper Howard movie, too?

>> Sarah : Not completely, brainwashed. to not realize that Lucy is being carried away and might need some assistance. So that prompts him to get off, up off the couch and, to go steal some energy. You know, I'm going to do the right thing, but first I have to do the bad thing to do the right thing. You know, it's Maximus.

>> Will: Yeah, exactly right.

>> Sarah : And then they have a very. I don't know what it is, but I'll get into that later. But then they, they set you up thinking that they're going to kill Lucy. They're not. They're actually letting her go with two weeks of supplies. And that's her punishment, to go back to the service world, where she'll surely die, in their opinion. Maximus then makes it, like, makes his grand entrance, at that moment. And then Lucy and Maximus leaves. I do, again, appreciate the number of times when, even though Lucy is very naive, she still, there is a part of Maximus that she sees through. So she. She tells him right away, you got to give that. That fusion back to. Back to them, because you can't be a knight if you stole, stole that. Like, that's not the knightly thing to do. And so, so they get over that bump and then go about their way. So, so that is. That is the Lucy and Maximus part of this episode. We'll get back to them a little bit later. That ties into a different aspect of the episode a little bit better. then we got. See another thing that happened more in these last two episodes than in previous. We got a lot of ghoul present day versus ghoul flashback.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Oh, so, okay, well, the present day doesn't really matter. He. He kills a kid.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean, basically, yeah, the present day go, that was sort of it just. He. It helps him get to what he's been trying for.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: To get the moldavor. And that was pretty much it. And then, I mean, there was, ah. and it does go back to the flashbacks, which really, flesh out.

>> Will: Some of the things that we've been theorizing about, and some of the things we've gotten confirmed and other things that, you know, really get the flashbacks really color what we're seeing.

>> Sarah : In present day mul Daver and Cooper talkeva, hints that she knows part of Barb that he does not. And she basically hires him to spy on his wife for the better. Good, because, barb and vault tec stole cold fusion energy, which is infinite energy, which is something that she and her fellow scientists were working on. But Vault tec bought it because it would be a resource that would end the war and basically make Vaultech sales go down, because they are, it would be the downfall of their business model, so to speak. So that was basically what was going on where it's like Coop has been conflicted between his wife and curious. And he started raise more questions about Vaulteq. Moldavir comes in, offers some answers, some insight, without telling him everything. And, because she knows he can be a pawn in her overall game. So that's what's going on in the background. And we'll see more about the spying that happens in the last episode.

>> Will: Yeah. One of the cool things I liked about that whole sequence, though, with Cooper at the time, was, really. And it really, to m me, sort of sets up how the ghoul. Well, how Cooper and Lucy are, even though a 200 year set apart. There's a lot. There's a lot of similarities in their personalities as far as, like, as far, you know, Cooper has this sort of purity to himself as far as, like, you know, whenever he was sitting there hearing Miss Moldeboro, I guess at the time, she was calling herself Miss Williams, like, talk about the, evils of corporate greed and all that kind of stuff. And they were trying to, you know, the whole red scare kind of stuff, you know, and, you know, he was like, I've heard enough of your bullshit. You know, he's all. He's all that patriotism, and it's a lot, you know, we see that in present day with Lucy, too, with her, you know, whenever she has some. Her earlier encounters with the folks in Philly and Maximus and others. so I liked the way they were doing those, sort of setting up those parallels with the. With the two characters.

>> Sarah : yes, yes, I do, too. that brings us to Thaddeus. Who? Thaddeus. You came, and he went. I mean, okay, I'm just going to say this. Now. Thaddeus biggest crime in this whole show was putting the dog in the fridge.

>> Will: Yes.

>> Sarah : The moment he did that. Yeah. Kill him.

>> Will: Yeah, kill him. Kill him. He got what he deserved, becoming a ghoul.

>> Sarah : Seriously. And then, like, the dog did nothing to him. Yeah. He just sticks him in the fridge.

>> Will: Yeah, the dog. Yeah. I mean, you're, you know, Thaddeus is a dumbass that got his foot crushed by Maximus whenever fighting over the armor, so, yeah, and.

>> Sarah : And then by the end of the episode, an arrow through. Through the throat, not dead. Turns out he became a ghoul. And then. And then he did get shot. Right?

>> Will: He. Yeah, he did, I think. Yeah. And, yeah. Healed, and. Yeah, so he. He ran, of course, just like true night Titus. He ran.

>> Sarah : Right, right. He. He ran far, because the brotherhood was arriving, and, they would not accept a ghoul in their knighthood for sure. So. So that leaves Lucy and Maximus, who also happen to show up, m because Lucy has that tracker of the head. And so there they again, very conveniently wind up at the right time to get the head and then also find another head that Maximus decides to, to use to give to the Brotherhood while he sends Lucy to go find her father with the real head. There's a lot of heads. Suddenly we're just talking about clones now. We're talking about a lot of headless people.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And. And he. And he has her go about her way, and he'll. He'll deal with the brotherhood the best that he can. so. So we have a splitting of past. A lot of people have come together and then suddenly break apart leading up to the finale. anything you want to talk about? Thaddeus, I mean, he. He just. He served some purposes of getting, like, maximus to certain points.

>> Will: So the one thing about the one we. I know, we. We jumped right to him becoming a ghoul, but it was the snake oil salesman who. Where he, you know, he made the exchange for the culture. Mark Max and misses Armour's cold fusion pack with that. With the snake oil salesman. And, that, you know, we. That that guy has. The snake oil salesman has been a recurring character throughout this. This first season. So, you know, I'm just trying to, like, you know, and now that he has a cold fusion unit and, I'm just wondering, like, where he's. Is he going to turn up next. As far as the overall story, he's.

>> Sarah : The big bad of season three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he's going to be collecting these little things along the way through all these different interactions, and that he's going to build. Build something for season three that's going to end the world.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, but, But, yeah, as far as idea something for sure. Something for sure, yeah. but, yeah, like I said, he got what he deserved. especially whenever. Whenever they went through that barter, I was like, yeah, yeah, you dumbass.

>> Sarah : He was so smart, and then he got real stupid real quick. So what you gonna do? He was infected with ghoul poisoning.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : the last story arc that we need to touch on before getting to the final episode is what was going on in vault 33 with Norm and friends. And, to start off that discussion, I'm just going to say, remember, wherever you end up, that's where you belong. vault 32 repopulation begins, where norm, surprisingly stays in vault 33, and Chet and Steph are reassigned to vault 32. And, you know, I like the quote unquote farewell, but I have a feeling we're going to see Chad again in season two because how can we not, for a character you, like, could just, like, not have around, they let him have a really solid last line. as Norm says to chet, you're a coward. And Chet's response is, we all are. That's why we're in a vault. Ah, duh.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : For someone who seemed not that self aware, he became very self aware in that final moment.

>> Will: He did. He really did.

>> Sarah : He really did. And meanwhile, the prisoners in vault 33 have been poisoned with, rat poison, which then just leads to norm pulling a norm. And just. I love how the overseer like that room, because I feel like this is at least the second or third time norm's found himself in there alone for an extended period of time. There's no protection. I mean, granted, a lot of their population has been wiped out in this vault, but still, the security.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I mean, the security. He knew how to hack into our system. I mean, I guess his dad was an overseer, so I guess he maybe picked up a few tricks along the way.

>> Sarah : But still, it also doesn't seem like the most advanced technology in a weird way. Yeah, yeah, but. And now that we know who he was talking to, it even makes a little bit more sense. Yeah, but, but, yeah. Norm hacks in, giving his best impression of being the overseer. Betty. and. And they allow him to return to vault 31 so he can figure out what's. What's in there. and they just leave you with a close up shot of Norm reacting to something, and that will be discussed in the next episode. But overall, a pretty decent penultimate episode. Yeah, yeah, it was m. In comparison, they did a much better job, in my opinion, in the finale. but. But there was a lot of necessary things to have happened here to get you to where you needed everyone to be for the finale.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And something you said at the beginning, whenever we started talking about this episode, it does feel like. Like they almost like we're going to have ten episodes. And then Amazon and then the cat. They got word back. No, it's only eight. So then they had to really, like, shuffle a lot of things and pack a lot into this penultimate, but, yeah, but as far as penultimate episodes go, it definitely was, one of the better ones I've seen.

>> Sarah : Yeah. and that brings us to episode eight, the beginning. 200 years have passed since the beginning of the apocalypse, and leaving the atomic shelter that protected them will pave the wave to an unknown world that will unleash a war of, survival. Ghoul flashback. Again, this is not in order because they went all over the place. But we're starting with the ghoul flashback, where we. We meet Bud askins again. We remake Bud Askins. And then, you know what he names drops? Buds. Buds.

>> Will: Yep. I don't have kids, so this is my way.

>> Sarah : This is my way. And Barb. And so Coop decides spy on his wife, on behalf of Moldavor. And so he puts the listening device in Barb's pip boy.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : and, I'm sorry, but that was not smart because she's a scientist. She gonna figure it out. Yeah. I actually am kind of mad at the writers the more I think about this. She should have figured it out before the meeting happened. But whatever. I get it. It was necessary. But, like, logically, she was already. She already knew in the parking lot something was going on with, single of her pip boy. And so she just decides to wear a malfunctioning pip boy into a meeting like that meeting. Really, really. A bit flawed, but whatever, it works.

>> Will: Plot convenience.

>> Sarah : Yeah, plot convenience. I've been saying that word a lot with the show. I do. I did like this these last two episodes. But I'm gonna call a plot convenience. A plot convenience.

>> Will: Yes. Yes, you do. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing as I was watching, and I was like, especially there in the parking lot when she was, you know, with the thing acted up. I was like, and then. And then, bud, just, like, conveniently, like, you know, oh, no, no, no. This all, you know, basically excuses it. And so I was just like, yeah, all right. Where's this going?

>> Sarah : Yeah, but my m my thing about Bob is, they haven't made him to appear to be real smart, even though he kind of is. But it's just, it's that. It's that annoying villain where you're like, you are so stupid. Stupid how? Like, I shouldn't. I shouldn't think that you're capable of getting to this much power. So I don't. And I don't really understand how, but I don't know.

>> Will: Well, I mean, this goes to what I was, like, talking about the series that's from the very beginning, which is, it's a lot, a lot as many ways. It's like the boys, where it's a commentary on. On society and some of the things that we see, you know, as far as mediocre people. You know, it was the Peter principal, the middleman, you know, the guy who, you know, just falls into the job or. Yeah. And also just, you know, the corporatism and, you know, sometimes it's a tragedy. I mean, but also, at the same time, it's comedy, you know, some satire thing. So, I mean, this is a very. There's a lot of things that are wrapped up in this show.

>> Sarah : Yeah, it's just. It's just hard for me when you bring up the boys comparison, because all I can think is, yeah, but the boys do it so much better.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : Like, like, fair enough. Like, it's one thing to make a comparison where this show does it better, but I'm like, no, but I understand what you're saying. And, I mean, during this meeting, we. We hear about a little bit more about buds. Buds in a weird way. and we hear the drop of the, three volt theory, which, essentially, it turns out that, vaults 32 and 33 are the breeding pools for vault 31, which. Vault 31 is buds. Buds.

>> Will: Yep. And which also, is management, which.

>> Sarah : Hank McLean.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Hank McLean. Who? I don't. I didn't really like this whole. Let me introduce you to Henry. Oh. Like, but everyone calls me Hank. I'm like, but. But we've heard Henry's name so much throughout, like, leading up to this, you couldn't. You should have named the character something different that would make a little bit more. But I don't know, it just took me off. I'm just like, oh, that's, that's another weird convenience. Oh, but everyone calls me Hank.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, but, you know, but again, but our theory, even though we thought he was maybe president, but, you know, he. He was management, but, but the ghoul. And, you know, he does have ties back to 200 years ago, so.

>> Sarah : Oh, yeah, but we've known that for a few episodes.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, but it was just. It was. It was, It was cool to get it confirmed, but also. It also, when I heard the line, you know, with the whole management, as far as with. Whenever they were in this, you know, in this doctor strangelove esque meeting, It, I, couldn't help but think about when Norm and Chet saw the down with management painted in ball 32.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. And, and we, like the. I think one of the first few things that Bud askins ever says on the show when he first encounters Coop is, to survive this to. The key to survival is time. And he adds on management. And so that. And I think that's right. The episode where they first go into the vault and norm sees down with management. So they're, They planted all of the seeds.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And. And this is something where the biggest thing that comes out of this whole eavesdropping scenario between Coop and Barb, though, is, is that Vaultec actually dropped the bomb.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : That caused the apocalypse now.

>> Will: And,

>> Sarah : Yeah, this is my thing about this show. And I mentioned this last week too, for whatever reason. All of these oh, my God moments, there's something about the timing of them. They're not hitting me. I was not shocked. I was not, like, like, I don't. I think I truly believe that my response is not the response a writer would want a viewer to have to everything that happened in that whole entire conversation. And not necessarily saying it's because it was written bad. I'm just saying for whatever reason, there's something about the timing of these, of, how they're revealing the information, the build up to it, that is just not hitting me the way it should.

>> Will: I complete, I agree with you, but I completely agree with you with the Tommy, because I think that's something that I think these, these last two episodes both had issues with. As you noted at the beginning. it just. Yeah, but I will say that even though the timing. I completely agree was off as far as, like, when you drop a big reveal that it was Barb who came up with the plan to like, wipe off, wipe the surface clean of the earth as far as, you know, the undesirables or whatever. Walter Coggins, hearing that moment, sold it for me.

>> Will: So that even though the timing was off, the, both Barb and the actress who played Barb and Ann Coggins just sold it for me. I was just like, oh, fuck.

>> Sarah : Wow.

>> Will: It did. I mean, and so it over. So their performance helped to overcome for me the bad element of timing m in the story.

>> Sarah : That's fair. That's fair.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And, and she, she also. What we learn and why, like, there are good vaults and bad vaults is because they turn. They're having this meeting is with their competitors who are then given some of the vaults in return for large investments and they're able to do whatever crazy idea for humanity they have in those vaults. And so, like, you're starting to understand more of, ah, about vault world and vault land and how it came to be and why there are good and bad vaults and not every vault is. Is the same. and it just reconfirms that the vaults that Lucy and were first introduced to are, like, true vault tec vaults. Think that like 500 times faster.

>> Will: Vault four was the, guy who. Yeah, we saw the scientists, we saw the company that came up in vault for.

>> Sarah : Yes, definitely. And while this is all going on. Okay. Because again, this episode, it's edited. Very heavily edited. Very heavily. because we have a flashback, and we have present day Lucy finally coming to meet Moldevor at the observatory, which. And she walks through gates, and the first thing I see is corn.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Corn. And she makes her way up to the stairs.

>> Will: And also, one of the ghouls that she saved at the,

>> Sarah : I knew. I knew one of the. Somebody, like, a ghoul recognized her. I just wasn't sure how or anything, but. Okay, that makes sense. And then. And then we get. We get, Moldevor is having dinner with a ghoul, kind of chained down, a very old ghoul, and Hank is in a cage. Okay, can I. I just want to say one thing. This is arguably their worst set.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : So bad.

>> Will: The oversized birdcage was a bit much.

>> Sarah : It was.

>> Will: The rest of it. The rest of it was fine. But the bird cage was a bit much.

>> Sarah : I don't know. It's just. It was. It all felt so fake. It all felt so fake. and so, like, oh, we didn't have enough money, so we just threw some stuff together. I'm m. Like, oh, I can see. Okay. And. And it turns out this is, like, the. The community, getting brought up from the ashes. That was, shady sands.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Okay. And we learn a bit more about the shady sands history and its link to the McLean's, as it turns out, Lucy's mom. now, will, you're gonna have to stop me if I'm getting these things wrong, but. So Lucy finds out that Hank's a part of management.

>> Will: Correct.

>> Sarah : Okay. And then Lucy or her mom takes her kids to the surface world.

>> Will: Correct.

>> Sarah : Okay, prediction for season two. There's gonna be a moment where they do a flashback where Maximus and Lucy knew each other as children. Anyway, during this, she never. It never crosses her mind that her. Her husband, like, he might seek vengeance. He might want his kids back. Who. And he does, to the point where he burns down shady sands and takes back his kids. And, hit. And Lucy's mom is the ghoul that Moldavor is having dinner with. Yep, yep.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The little reveal with the necklace there. I was like, oh, okay.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. And it's just. And. And this and Lucy for the next 40 minutes in complete, anytime, serious state of shock.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. That was pretty much. Lucy's role in this episode was just basically like, I'm just gonna yell. Everybody's gonna yell at me to, like, make it. Make a decision. Make. Pick a side. Pick a side.

>> Sarah : Well, it wasn't just that. It was. It was like, that's a lot of revelations. Yeah, for Lucy. And she's just processing. And so as people are yelling at her about decisions like it's me or your father, it's this or that. She's just. She, in her own mind, is rewriting who she thought her dad was, and it's like trying to understand this and what this all means. and so I think the actress did a pretty good job playing that off. She did, and everything. they need to recast Hank, maybe. I don't know. He's a bit annoying to me. I think that's the point, and it always is the point, but I have to call it what it is. so what else? Okay. And Moldavir needed Hank to get the code to get to access the cold fusion that was in the vial. That, guy will zig. Will Zigger, will zig shoved, in his head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Accurate, accurate. and so while Lucy is all finding this out, I'm pretty sure there's a couple of the coup flashbacks spliced in there. And then also, we're getting both of these things while we're also getting involved. 31. Norm meeting. But ask him. The brain.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : The brain.

>> Will: Buds. Buds meets, and buds, brains.

>> Sarah : And see, this is what I'm talking about. So it made sense to me in episode eight why there was a lack of, security around the overseer's office, because. Are you kidding me? You're gonna protect the management with a brain in a box? Who's gonna immediately like this? Got a bit hokey for me.

>> Will: I'm going to stick you with this. So you're getting chased by a roomba? I mean, come on.

>> Sarah : No, it's not even a chase. It's like a, fast walk. Yeah, and Norm's not really a fast walker. He had no pressure on him whatsoever.

>> Will: Yeah, I think it's the absurdity of it at the moment. I guess maybe that's what they were going for. and it was. I was just like, really?

>> Sarah : At first, I was like, oh, cool, cool. And then it went on. And then the more I realized that, because the longer it went on, the more I realized, no, no, no. They seriously just left a brain in a box. Protect their biggest arguably secret. I don't understand.

>> Will: Well, I think it shows the flaw in their plan.

>> Sarah : I don't know. I mean, because at the end of the day, Norm took his dad's pod, right?

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, because.

>> Sarah : Because as bad of a security the brain is, he does manage to lock dorm in vault 31 and tells him, go take a nap.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Which, I mean, yeah, I guess, I mean, I guess it's worked for 200 years.

>> Sarah : I guess it has. I mean, what they haven't explained. And I'm curious about this, because when.

>> Will: An overseer comes out, you know, they breed, and then I guess they're next in line. Just takes their spot.

>> Sarah : Yeah, but here. Here's what I was going to say, will, is what they haven't explained. And, I'm wondering now with season two, if we're going to get into this, because in present day. Spoiler alert. Moldavor's dead.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Did mo m. Was Moldavir, like, how did she survive for 200 years?

>> Will: That's. That's a good question.

>> Sarah : They did not. They did not tell us that at all.

>> Will: I mean, I assume she was in a cryo pod, but maybe. Maybe she was in one of the cryopods in vault four. Maybe.

>> Sarah : That's right. Well, but not all vaults are the same.

>> Will: Yeah, true.

>> Sarah : Like. Like, that was a vault x, so we don't know what. And a lot of. A lot of the people that we met in vault four were surface. Were previous surface people.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Well, yeah, yeah. So. So we don't know. And we also don't know how many vault tec vaults there are.

>> Will: Right.

>> Sarah : Granted, Hank. Hank is flying towards something.

>> Will: Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess the observatory was. So, I, guess the headquarters of the new California Republic. So maybe. So maybe the NCR was. You know, Moldavir's group was maybe sort of the forerunners of that. So maybe she. Maybe they had cryer tech. I mean, clearly, she developed cold fusion, so she had a means to be able to. To.

>> Sarah : Again, I'm not. I'm not doubting she didn't have a means. I'm just. I'm just like. I'm like, that's a question I want answered sooner rather than later, especially because she's dead in present day. So we just got to understand what's happening. all right, so we talked about Norm and the vault, and this brings us back to Maximus.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and this will carry us home because. Because brotherhood kind of was a lot in this episode. We got a lot of brotherhood, Maximus, who are very forgiving people. Like, it's weird. You get this impression from Maximus Thaddeus, and, we learn his name. What was the guy who hurt his foot?

>> Will: Oh, they, They. Dane.

>> Sarah : Dane. Dane.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : We get this impression that the brotherhood should be feared, and, like, they're not forgiving. And yet Dane, like, immediately tells in order to save Maximus, immediately tells them that he hurt himself, and then receives punishment for it. And then meanwhile, Maximus manages to talk his way out of this current predicament because he does know where the head is, even though he gave Lucy the head. So he still. But the elder is just like, I don't like you. You're a liar. You did all these bad things, but, but you do have information, so you're going to stay alive and, and then have this very long conversation. And, and you know what? After reconsideration, I not only think you should be a part of the brotherhood and our family fight to get this, this head and this relic, as he kept referring to it as. But I also think that you can rebuild the brotherhood with me.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's funny. So the actor who plays the elder cleric actually remember he was the evil core guy in Mister Robot.

>> Sarah : You know, it took me all of this season in this episode where I was like, I know that face. And then when I looked it up on IMDb, I'm like, you bastard.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, yeah, I was like, where did I know? And, yeah, and I was like. And then it just like, it clicked. I didn't even have to look at IMDb. I was like, this to do for Mister robot because it.

>> Sarah : Don't gloat. Don't gloat. Granted, the series finale, mister Rover.

>> Will: No, no. It's just like, ah, that's why it worked so well.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I don't know. I would. For me, it didn't work that well. It was fine, but it just, I don't know. I'm still not as attached. I like the fact that the end, when, and I'm kind of jumping ahead, but whatever. Yeah, when Maximus ends up getting knocked out during the fight and, and then he gets abandoned by, by Lucy and the ghoul and, but when he wakes up, Moldavir uses cold fusion because she gets the code, to light up the city. And on all your left here is, all hail Maximus, which is a chant that Dane starts. And so I think overall, Maximus has a very, like, good storyline. Yeah, I don't, but, like, now, in retrospect, looking at it back from start to finish, I'm like, okay, that's, that's a good arc.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And I can see how the brotherhood ties in, but it, this arc was never my favorite. Like, like, while watching and enjoying the show for what it is, I just was always like, ah, man, we're back in the freaking brotherhood. Why can't we be in a flashback or someplace else or stuck in a vault? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I get what they were going for. And Maximus definitely grew on me as a character, but at the same time, there were too many other elements that grabbed more of my attention, and I was more attached to and I thought were more interesting. where if I do a ranking, he, he and the brotherhood, and by the end of it, it's brotherhood is just dragging him down. Would end up in laugh. But.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I love to that point. I mean, that. I think so. So for me, actually, I had the same art, same, arc of feelings that you did, but I actually, I was just, like, I came out. I agree. I don't like the brotherhood, but I like Maximus. And that expression that he had on his face at the end there when he finally, like, you know, when knighthood was. Because it was so many things going on because with, because he was trying to tell Dane, no, no, no. And then, of course, they. And then Dane proclaims this. And, and, yeah. So that, to me, was, like, in Maximus face in that moment, I was like, okay, yeah, I like this character. he became my sort of, you know, my co mvp of the season.

>> Sarah : Well, it's also his reaction when Lucy tells him that her dad, was responsible for what happened to shady stance.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : So, so I I really appreciated how they, how all three actors handled that situation.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and, and then to parallel that with, at the end, like, both Lucy and Maximus, they get what they want, but then their journeys cause them to start to want at something else, which is then, in a way, sacrificed or put on the back burner because they got what they originally wanted. So it's an interesting, situation to be in because, well, now you got what you wanted, but you've already moved on to new dream, so what are you going to do now?

>> Will: Exactly. Exactly. And also, just the parallels between Hank, between, Lucy, Maximus, and even the ghoul, like, everybody's worlds just got blown up at different points, you know, the ghouls 200 years ago.

>> Sarah : Yeah. And he still, and he's still hung up on his wife because we learn. We really learn at the end that, that. And I'm so glad that next season, we're going to get more Lucy and the ghouls. I don't think there was enough of it, but understandably so. But still, I really like them together. And because the ghoul tells Lucy that, that he, he wants to go find his family. Like, that's what that has been. What has he's been looking for.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : This whole time. And, and it kind of clicks because they're like, okay, so where are. But seriously, where are they? Granted, I can't help but just remember he was with Janie the day of the apocalypse.

>> Will: Right.

>> Sarah : At that. so, so when he, he didn't say barb, he didn't say his wife. He said my family.

>> Will: Right.

>> Sarah : So I just, I wonder. I wonder, I'm curious about how they're going to maneuver out of that or what explanation we're going to get, especially if Janie's alive.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : And, and also where that, where they split up on that day.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, clearly. Yeah, because like I said, he's with that scene where, with the reveal, you know, was the bomb dropped shortly after that or was it weeks after? You know, it's so many, so many outstanding questions that, that we have there for, for the upcoming season.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. They, they did this season. I'm so glad there's going to be a season two.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And I've said this the entire time, we've been talking about this show, this season as a prologue, and we got a lot of meat in these last two episodes, but, and I just applaud them for calling this the episode, the beginning. We're only getting started, like. Yeah, I mean, as you put. I'm pretty sure because I know I didn't write this, like, the final little tease is new Vegas, which we're gonna, we're gonna become familiar with in, in season two. So now, has, to your knowledge, has season two already been shot or just greenlit?

>> Will: It was just, it was just greenlit.

>> Sarah : Okay. It was just greenlit. Well, so that means it'll be another five.

>> Will: Yeah, we're probably looking at probably 2026, I think, 2020.

>> Sarah : Yeah. I mean, granted, Amazon, you know, I think, over the years, Amazon prime, they definitely have a style. You can tell visually, this is an Amazon produced show.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : And I mean, you can also tell, like, arguably thematically, they have figured out, what their brand is, especially with new content and original content. and, yeah, for all intents and purposes, their original content is pretty consistent.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, they have. Yeah, it is. It is. I completely agree.

>> Sarah : And made for adults.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I find that really interesting that, like, when you talk about this show, because there was a nudist, ritual scene that I could have gone without. When you talk about the boys Gen v. There is a lot of this is adult content that arguably, a decade ago, would have been on HBO.

>> Will: Yeah, it would have been. It would have been.

>> Sarah : Invincible cartoons for adults.

>> Will: Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah. All right, well, that leaves, That is it for us tonight. Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

>> Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formally known as twitterillmpolk. Ah m wilm mpolk.

>> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at sjbelmont sjblmt m. Please follow our crew on twitterinardfriend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and m threads at seen underscore n nerd, and visit our website, www.sceneanderdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.