SNN: Are Marvel Echo Episodes 1 and 2 Worth Your Time? Find Out Now!

>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene  N Nerd I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight, will?

>> Will: Doing very well. How are you doing, my friend?

>> Sarah : I'm doing good. You know, we, we took some time to look at the schedule, and I think things are falling into place. 2024 content and what we have to look forward to in the upcoming weeks. but right now, tonight, we're going to talk about echo.

>> Will: Yes, we are.

The writer strike and the actor strike backloaded everything this year

A little bit of news, too.

>> Sarah : A little bit of news. Around this point right now, 2024 has consisted of the most award shows.

>> Will: Yeah, the writer strike and the actor strike basically backloaded everything. So award shows that were nominated for season ones, like the Bear, for example. of course, Jeremy Allen White did win best actor in a comedy. but it was for season one, not season two, because I think the voting actually either ended around the time that season two was on m.

>> Sarah : Or something like that. May or April, it ended.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And Bear season two came out in June, and so many people have pointed that out, and it just messes with your mind. But that's why I've always thought the Emmys were so weird, because it's tv shows. But what is that period of time of. Yes, if it drops, it always feels late. has felt that way because I've often watched it and people have gotten awards, and I'm thinking in my mind, but that was, like, last year.

>> Will: Yeah. And just trying to keep track of the eligibility rules because really, I know there's also this week there was the critic choice awards as well. And of course, Oscar voting, I believe, is starting. I believe this week. and so of know that's coming later. I guess oscars is what, in March, I want to say this show of this year. but again, because of the strikes, everything got pushed back. So it's just really messing with m my mind as far as just figuring out eligibility periods and windows for, like, tv shows, for example, from September of 2022 to June of 2023 or whatever, however the seasons work. when I was seeing some of the announcements, I guess it was Monday night, I was like, oh, yeah. I have to remind myself this is not for just the most recent season. It's for the seasons before, except for the success.

>> Sarah : Well, yeah, I was going to say some of the shows, it is the most recent season when those seasons dropped, and voting, it really becomes a mind fuck.

>> Will: Yeah.

I feel like last week we spent a lot of time talking about best supporting actor

>> Sarah : I feel like last week we spent a lot of time talking about best supporting actor in a drama series with succession, with the rivalry between Kieran and, Pedro. But I come to find out Kieran for the Emmys. I could have sworn you told me differently, but Kieran was nominated for best actor, best lead role, and not supporting actor. And that's where they placed Thomas McFadden in the supporting actor role. So last week, when I was talking about how Thomas would be the biggest competition for Pedro out of the succession class, it's because I didn't realize and I misunderstood about who was placed in what category.

>> Will: Yeah, well, I think also we were talking about the Screen Actors guild, because they had their nominations the same night, same time we were talking about the golden globes as well. And, shows too many categories.

>> Sarah : My God. but now maybe Karen will have a third child. That's all I took away from. That's what, got.

>> Will: Yeah, I guess both the Emmys and critics choice. I mean, he did win best lead actor in both, right? yeah.

>> Sarah : I feel as though he's been sweeping his category, which I was thinking about it after I saw he won the emmy, and I know why. I know the scene specifically, I've said this before, when Zendaya won her second Emmy for euphoria. and you can tell it's amazing how performances that really stand out, it all goes back to one specific moment. And it's not that they were crap the entire rest of the season. No. It's just that in that moment, they captured something that was very surprising. Very, It just, So. But I still say, pedro, just wait for second season. I would be shocked.

>> Will: Shocked.

>> Sarah : The last of us ended, and Pedro never took home an Emmy. Okay. I just would be.

>> Will: And I can't say more like you. I don't want to spoil anything that could potentially happen in the second season of the last of us, but, yeah, He will definitely get some love, I think, at some point. potentially with that second, with what's to come. yeah, because so many shows that have ended this year, too, when you think about, the slate, it's going to be pretty wide open, for some new shows next year, in some category.

>> Sarah : Well, House of Dragon is coming. This mean just when you think new shows, some of the returning ones are going to start to mean HBO. It's just that type of channel where it will put out some duds, but when it has a good show, you got to wait until that series is over.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : It's really hard. and I don't know. I don't know, because fantasy is still very interesting how it plays out with any award show. yes, I know Peter Dinklage. How many Emmys he walked away with after Game of Thrones ended a shit think. And this would be something interesting to look up, like, did he win more awards or did the show win more awards? Because I'm pretty sure he won it more for his category than the overall show did. but we'll see. I still remember how some of my favorites from the first season were treated during awards season, and so if that shows anything. I don't know how well second season of House of Dragon will do in awards, but they have my heart.

James Gunn says he's almost finished writing Peacemaker season two

all right, so moving on to will wants to talk about how James Gunn shares on IG that he has written seven of, eight episodes of Peacemaker season.

>> Will: You know, it's January, and I think back to this time, I guess, God, was it two years ago now, with peacemaker season one and how a, show that I don't think anyone after watching the suicide squad film would ever think that we were going to get the genius of peacemaker season one. But, yeah, Gunn did share that. he is almost finished. The only thing he has left to write is the finale for season two, and it is part of his first phase of, his new DCEU. So hopefully we'll be hearing some news about when they're going to go back and start filming this season. I mean, I guess he's got to get Superman legacy finished first, since he's directing that, it may be a while. but I guess they're filming Superman legacy now. I guess they'll be starting it soon, so maybe we'll get a better sense as far as when season two of Peacemaker is coming. But he did say that also he was going to have another epic opening to rival the first season. So that first season opening, to this day, I still think about it. So, ah, it's going to be pretty hard to top that. But if anyone can do it, he. Yeah.

Will Snyder gives updates on all of the new Star wars projects

>> Sarah : and then will wants to put us all to sleep as he gives updates on Star wars projects.

>> Will: I know you're done with Star Wars. I know you're done with Star wars. But this is just a follow up to the Mandalorian and Grogu story that, broke last week that when Lucasfilms shared that they were going to be making a film with our, lovable baby Yoda so they can sell more baby yoda dolls and stuff. But, somehow the Internet thought that because of that movie and because everyone just assumed that when, they had announced that Daisy Ridley was coming back to do a ray film, that the Ray film was now delayed indefinitely or whatever. But Lucasfilm shared that. No, it's not, that the Ray film is still going forward. Daisy Ridley is still committed to the project. Jeff Snyder had, a big news dump, in his newsletter about what's going on with Star wars right now. I mean, basically they backed up the brinks truck for Daisy to come back and play the character. Daisy also just talked about how fans were very. I saw an interview with her yesterday, actually. I can't remember when it was filmed, but I think it was pretty recent, I think a french network, about her excitement for the project. and it looks like, yes, Mandalorian Grogu will be the first film out the gate. I think we're looking at a May 2020 release, date for that film. but yeah, the Ray film, where she will be creating a new Jedi order will probably be the second one. And then of course, there's the whole filoni film that, he's working on, pulling together all the things from the mandoverse together. So, that's the latest in the Star wars realm. But, if you're hearing anything about the Ray film being delayed or whatever, or taken off the schedule or canceled, because God knows they've canceled like so many projects. But this one has not been canceled or delayed.

>> Sarah : It hasn't been canceled, but it hasn't been shot.

>> Will: True. Anything's possible with Star wars. There's still time. Yeah. The other thing too, with it, I guess Sean Levy, who's, doing, Deadpool three and also stranger worlds. Stranger things. I'm sorry. My Star Trek seeped in there for a moment, but, he also is looking at doing a Star wars film, which supposedly may also have ray in it as well.

>> Sarah : Need people, directors, actors, to just stop with the Star wars. Like, we get it. You're fanboys, we get it. That's part of the reason why you became blah, blah, blah, blah. But have you talked to all of those once fanboys probably still are, but directors and actors who either a, said the same thing, got what they wanted, and then quickly got kicked off of the project. Or have you talked to John Boyega about.

>> Sarah : I feel as though everyone says how small Hollywood is, and yet y'all are not talking to each other about the reality of the business. And with these big. That's that's lovely that you have this idea for a great Star wars movie, but if you get what you wanted, be careful, because the reality is going to be probably really different. And also, have you looked at the comments on all of the new Star wars stuff? I mean, I'm not the only one who's kind of, like, done with Star wars, and I'm not done done. I feel as though the current direction they're going on with most of these stories, it's boring.

>> Will: Yeah, I get you. They do need a fresh perspective. and I think Mandalorian season one was, even though it was still set right after returning to Jedi, I think it was a different vibe. at least for me, at least. but I do get your point, though, because after the sequel films, the third trilogy, the JJ reboot of a reboot.

>> Sarah : It'S the sequel trilogy. Yeah, it kind of left a bad taste in everyone's, It. I find it interesting how they think that bringing back Rey is going to allow them to continue to expand on what they currently had. And I'm thinking in my mind, I don't want a ray movie without Kylo. I'm sorry. You left me with one fucking kiss. That's not enough. Okay.

>> Will: Well, you're the fan. They're fan that they're thinking of. That's why they're leading with Mandalorian and Grogu. Everybody loves that.

>> Sarah : Mandalorian and of. I feel as though I've invested with them multiple tv shows or seasons of television, and now you're going to do a movie, and I'm just like, I don't know what's going on. I don't like this whole. I have never been on board for the concept of you have a tv show and after a few seasons, now it's a movie.

>> Sarah : There's just something weird to me about that where I think we've talked about in the past as we're watching various shows, like the pacing of a tv show versus the pacing of a movie. And I think specifically last week when we're talking about, what if this was brought up, what if season two probably would have made for a really interesting movie with all of those different stories that have, just expand upon the whole captain Carter of it all and make a Captain Carter movie. That would have been fine. Probably a bit more well paced, rather than divvied up into these half hour episodes. Now I've spent like, 40 minutes a week with Grogu and Mando, and now, their story is just going to get condensed into a two hour, probably three hour movie at the rate movies are being filmed these days. And yes, I am not looking forward to being in that theater and watching 20 minutes of walking in sand because, you know, there's going to be a walking in sand sequence. And, that's the thing that I need a producer to come out and say about Star wars, like, moving forward. We will no longer have sequences of people walking in sand.

>> Will: Yeah, go away from Tatooine. We don't want to go back to Tatooine.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Honestly, will, I don't even think it's always on Tatooine. I think there's other planets that just also happen to have sand, and it's just a lot of walking, talking, and sand, and it's too much. We already got doom two coming out, God knows when, sometime this year. And there's a lot of sand in that movie. But anyway, so off my Star wars soapbox.

Before we move on from Star wars, just one last little thing. Diego Luna is filming his last movie

>> Will: Before we move on from Star wars, just one last little thing. Diego Luna did note that he was filming his last. He's doing his last week of filming for season two of Andor, which, speaking to your point about going in different directions and really landing really well by doing that, Andor season one was definitely,

>> Sarah : Yeah, because rogue one was a good movie. I'm just saying it's not surprising to me. To me, it's like, why make, ah, continue making movies about Rey, her trilogy, people argue, is the. I just. I don't understand these decision makers. Whatever.

Marvel confirmed that Foggy and Karen will return for Daredevil born again

that brings us to the last bit of news, which will lead into our main topic of discussion tonight. and this news. I feel as though. I'm sorry. It's 2024, but I feel as though this has been said before. But I guess it's confirmed by Jeff Snyder that Eldon Henson and Deborah Anne Wall will return as Foggy and Karen for Daredevil born again. actually, like listeners to go back in our catalog and find the episode where we first talk about born again. And I could have sworn our producer, Mr. Will Pogg, told me that these two would not be involved in this project. And I told him there's no way in fucking hell.

>> Will: But here's the thing. They were not involved with this project. It's like, basically, Marvel listened to you and other fans, and whenever they shot.

>> Sarah : Way too much credit. Way too much.

>> Will: It's true. Basically, they filmed before the strike. They had filmed, like, what, six episodes? Or however many of the, daredevil born again. And they saw what they had and they like, fuck it, this is not working. And then after the fact is when they brought boggy and Karen back, because they're like, oh, okay, we know the formula that works. Let's get these people back in here. And it may be a one off. I don't know how many episodes it's going to be. Jeff just basically said, they're coming back, but it could be a one episode appearance, or they could be very integral to the rewritten story. We don't know. But, they're coming back. They now are coming back because the first, they were not.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I'm not going to go into that. But, if they were really listening to the fans, we would have gotten confirmation that the Punisher would be in it, too. Of Daredevil is superior, but he's already confirmed. Okay. Interesting. M interesting. Okay. I know how many episodes Karen will be in. This isn't good. This isn't going to go well. just based on what my understanding of what the show is called and the comic book run, it seems to be based on the pieces. Are there people of what's going to happen? And that's why I was so shocked at the beginning of it all when you. And they were very adamantly saying, no, they're not going to be involved. And I'm thinking to my man, how in the hell do you do this without at least Karen? It doesn't make any sense. The math ain't math, but no. So. Well, I'm glad it took a strike for them to get their pieces in order. Hopefully they pull it off.

I was blown away by the camera work on Echo's first episode

we did just see Daredevil in the very first episode of Echo. And, I have to admit, I a was first of all, like, whoa, too soon. But simultaneously, I was just the entire sequence before he even arrived. In that scene of Maya on her first mission for fisk, I was blown away by the, camera work. Yeah, it was so good. And it reminded me of the camera work they used in the seasons of daredevil that really, I think, caught everyone's attention with the fight choreography because it felt immersive, and it feels. Because of how they use the hand cam, it feels like a video game. And not in a bad way, in more of, like, you're in the middle of the chaos, literally, and you're spinning around and observing all of the different things. It's not. Let me just place a camera here, and two people are going to fight in front of it. That can be very boring. So I really was impressed by that. I hope we get more sequences because I have to admit, the big action sequence in the second episode, and will probably thought this, that I was going to bring this up while he was watching it, because where are the fucking lights? Okay. I couldn't see a damn thing of what was going on in the train. And whenever they have these sequences and it's all dark, I get it. It's night. But you know what's out at night? A, moon star. You can figure out a way to have some light where I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I'm just going to listen to bang, bang, whatever. They'll succeed in whatever they're trying to do. I don't have to watch it. Whatever.

Will: I agree with you on the fight, cinematography and choreography

M to go back to the first episode, will, what are some of your opening thoughts about echo?

>> Will: Yeah, opening thoughts. I agree with you on, the fight, cinematography and choreography. actually, to your point about, the film camera work and stuff, it really was going back to, I guess the one take, where you just set things going. And I, actually listened to, screen crush, did a great breakdown of the fight.

>> Will: And they said the very thing that you mentioned, which is what you saw in the daredevil, Netflix shows that same one take, style being utilized, and just the evolution of seeing that type of choreography versus other things, even like Batman begins versus Batman versus Superman, how things change and other fight scenes. So I agree with you. That was one of the highlights for me. As far as the first episode, as far as the overall faults of the show, so far, I've only watched two episodes because, I thought that they did a good job, really weaving in the native american folklore backstory, really get into her background. But it did it in a way that was also very like MCU, which was both a good, but also detracted a little bit for me, to be honest, because I'm like, okay, I love the representation. I love really showing her cultural foundations and all, but at the same time, I'm like, okay, they're weaving into superhero stuff.

>> Sarah : yeah, I totally understand what you're saying, but for me, it doesn't feel. I don't go to the superhero stuff. I go to, why does this come off as Avatar? I don't know what it is, but between the ancestor stuff that is happening in echo and that episode from what if, I forgot her name.

>> Will: Yeah, Kohori, who actually was generous enough, the actress who plays Bonnie, voices her. And what if the actress who plays.

>> Sarah : That's cool. Well, very, cool connection there. that whole episode reminded me of. I just. I kind of wish that the MCU would find a way to do this without. With being very cautious of not going into the avatar of it all. And I understand why I would get that vibe just because Will's never seen the movie. I have never seen the second movie, but I saw the first movie, and the first movie is basically a remake of Dances with wolves. I have seen that, but I feel like they have yet to figure out a way out. Of all the cultures that they have managed to incorporate into the MCU, they haven't figured out a way with, native american culture to get it without going in that.

>> Will: Because I tell you, a film where they did it well was, the predator film that was on Hulu, about a year or so ago.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: That was one that I really thought they did a good job of integrating. Yeah, we're in a superhero world and stuff. Well, not super Sci-Fi world, but we respect the native american traditions and the culture and all that. but like I said, it also reminded me, too, of a blue Beetle, where the things I liked about blue Beetle was the family aspects of it. Whenever we see Maya's family at the beginning and, the shadow puppet play and just sitting around the area talking and all that kind of stuff, those were, like, the very good moments that really stood out for me. it humanized the character early on because, especially the younger version of her. But the thing is, with the first episode, I guess the first half hour was really like a set up for people.

>> Sarah : Oh, my God.

>> Will: Yeah. Ah, it was like, hey, hawkeye, season.

>> Sarah : One, it was not a setup. It was the longest montage I have ever seen. and I'm ashamed to admit it took me until they got to New York. So the mom has died, and then it really started to set in as we're getting caught up to present day, like, oh, my God, they're going full montage with this. This is the longest. Previously on. You have already seen this. We're going to fill in some. I'm just like, oh, my God, stop. But, to go back to the ancestor stuff real quick, something that I think that they are not. I feel as though, in my opinion, it's half baked just because so far. And we've only watched two episodes, but in both episodes, they're named after one of her ancestors. And the openings always show, this new ancestor, and they tell a story about them. But so far, I have not felt as though those stories about her ancestors are really doing a good job mirroring present day. I feel like it's partly there, but to me, I don't fully connect them together. They're not perfect, foils for one another.

The echo in the comics is very different from the live action version

>> Will: Yeah, they're touching on it, especially with the echo because that's one of the things I do know about the character is that as far as how they've changed echo from the comic versus echo and live action, where a couple of things. One, they changed the native american nation that she's from because, she was, Cheyenne Latin American, in the comic book. And she's a chocolate in the live action. but also her power, think. I think what they're trying to achieve is the echo is because her power set in the comics was. She basically was like taskmaster in the MCU where she could mimic other people's fighting styles. And take. That was the whole point of the echo here. I think they're trying to show the echoes of the ancestors coming through in these flashbacks. But the way that is edited and stuff, I think it's kind of haphazardly edited sometimes, where it just kind of doesn't flow. and so I get where they're trying to go. And maybe as we get deeper in the series, we'll sort of see that sort of play out. And we saw that in particular, in the second episode when she was on the train and her leg gets caught in the, thing. And they kind of flashback to the.

>> Sarah : And at the end where I think. Because then you get a flashback of not just lok, but you get a flashback, to, chaffa, the first one. And then also someone else who I believe, is what the third episode, the name comes from that ancestor. And I feel as though that one's going to be a little darker just based on the images we saw of that ancestor, which maybe it's done purposely, that it's not a complete mirror to present day just because it's an echo. It's like a reverberation, of these voices, of these ancestors, and their past strength, and making sure their people are okay.

Maya returns to Oklahoma to her blood family after losing her daughter

which something that also bothers me is or not bothers me, but maybe is a nitpick I have is that we're introduced through the montage.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Echo becomes, Maya becomes very isolated from not only her New York family, her fisk family, but from her. She returns to Oklahoma to her blood family. But she's also not immediately going to grandma's house. she is being low key. She's not immediately going to her cousin Bonnie. There's a lot of issues of what happened and why her and her dad left town to begin with that are unresolved to me. These ancestors who are protecting their people. It's like Maya, has people, but she also doesn't. She's a lone, so I get that. It's trying to make her realize, like, oklahoma is where the shit is happening and where she needs to be to protect those. So. So I understand where it's going with that, but it kind of irritates me just because we're seeing the ancestors, and I'm like, oh, they're protecting their people. And meanwhile, Maya's protecting in the weirdest way, she doesn't know how, because she's basically grown up without a, Do I like biscuits?

>> Will: Yeah, biscuits. yeah.

>> Sarah : Will does not like biscuits.

>> Will: I'm warming up to biscuits. I'm warming up to biscuits.

>> Sarah : Does not like biscuits.

>> Will: I'm warming up to biscuits. I like biscuits. Is kind know. I guess everybody needs to come. He's the comedic foil.

>> Sarah : You need someone because Maya, is just. She's too headstrong. Like, you need someone to bounce off. And she's got all of these adults, her grandma and her uncle, telling her what to do, what she shouldn't be doing, and then you need biscuits. And grandpa.

>> Will: And so with grandpa and being that comedic foil and also helping her take some of the edge off and helping her. Helping her with. Repairing her leg or just even in the first episode after, what happened with her mother dying and stuff, obviously, grandma is very pissed off because I guess she knows what's going on with Maya's dad. Hm. And him being in both worlds of being in the world of Oklahoma, but also working for Fisk in the criminal underworld and understands that because of him being in both worlds is because she lost her daughter. because these folks cut the brake lines or whatever. and so I think, you know, so, I think that relationship is very important with grandpa biscuits. I know when he comes along, he is the guy there for the laughs and to lighten up the mood in the show because it is very dark and very intense. and many elements with all that is going on in the episodes.

>> Sarah : Yeah. I love the sign language. I, love that she's deaf. I think that adds to the intensity just because having your main character be deaf, there's so much silence. Oh, go ahead.

>> Will: No, I was going to say, with that silence. And they use that to get back to the fight choreography. and the sound editing that they use. That was the one thing that really stood out to me in that first episode, whenever she was on that first mission for Fisk is, how do you sound in the heartbeat? And whenever both her heartbeat and the other guy, when she was fighting his heartbeat and being together, but then ratcheted up, and then she snaps, breaks his neck. And how she uses that, because she is deaf, using her other senses to be able to, basically be an enforcer.

>> Sarah : I think that even though I'm not overwhelmed and that enthusiastic, after watching these two episodes, the show is doing a good job of making me more excited for Daredevil, because from the fight choreography callbacks to now, we're talking about the sound design. They did such a good job with the seasons of daredevil about sound design, just because he's blind. So he relies so much more on sound and the way through fighting, he uses that sense enhanced sense, to be able to, take down his opponents. I feel as though, the show is doing a good job. And it's also, there was a moment, and I'm not talking about the montage sequence where I was thinking about, oh, yeah, I get why they did this show after Hawkeye. I mean, Hawkeye feels like ten years ago, but I forgot about the element in Hawkeye where he was hard of hearing and having to pick up sign language and having to deal with that in the middle of all this chaos, and he meets Echo, who's deaf. And it was a really good counterpoint. And they even played with sound design there because of all of that that was going on. I find it interesting, the creative elements or the production elements that we're talking about, and how in a show like Hawkeye, that we were both kind of mid. Like, there's that element that's like, oh, no, that really did stand out. That makes sense. Why now we're here with Echo, and that gets me more excited about this future project of,

>> Will: To the. To the point of the montage. Those were adding in additional scenes from Hawkeye and really fleshing out, whenever she was there. And of course, Ronan, kills her father. but, it really bookended Hawkeye in a sense of, like you said, from the technical standpoints and production standpoints that you notice. But also, really, even though this is part of the Marvel spotlight and the whole idea spotlight is to be able to just drop in. You don't need to know the chapter and verse of the MCU, but it still keeps the links between this show back to the main.

>> Sarah : you. they had to remind viewers not about, necessarily, Ronan, the Ronan of it all, but, the pivotal moment from Hawkeye season one that involved Maya, where Maya shoots Fisk. And that all goes back to, she thought initially, Rowan killed her father, but Fisk gave the you. We needed that as viewers, whether you're new viewers, who didn't watch Hawkeye, or current viewers who did watch Hawkeye, if you did watch Hawkeye, I don't think a lot of us remembered, so we needed the guy. You just needed to know so that you knew where she was and why she's suddenly in Oklahoma on the run. And kind of there is a power struggle.

I wasn't blown away by the first episode of Hawkeye season one

Which brings me to the next thing of. We didn't get him yet. We know he's coming, but he ain't dead. Fisk is not dead. he may be one eye less, maybe, potentially, we don't know. and honestly, all it reminds me of is another really good moment in Hawkeye season one, which was when Fisk started beating people up. And Vincent del Nafro, he gave that in all of the daredevil seasons, too. I don't know what it is, but the strength of that, man, it's just terrifying. It is terrifying. I really do think that this show is just supposed to make you excited for, it's. And it's doing a good job. And I think now, the more I talk about it, the more I'm reflecting on the brighter points of Hawkeye, which makes m me be like, oh, man, that wasn't as bad as I initially thought it was.

>> Will: And it's funny even, because I know whenever we were dming earlier in the week, I noted I was like, the jury is still out. because I had just watched the first episode of Echo, and I wasn't blown away. No, but I wasn't like. But I also wasn't like, oh, God, this is terrible. I can't watch this anymore.

>> Will: I think first episode coming out of it because of the montage and stuff. But you make a very good point, is it helped establish what her motivations are for bringing down whenever she's on the top of the water tower and talking to with her uncle black crow about, I want to be the queen. So it did help establish that I, wasn't fully buying it, to be honest. because I just felt. Because of the montages taking up half the episode, it just kind of.

>> Sarah : Felt performative I 100% agree with you.

>> Will: as far as setting up the motivation. But then once we got to the second episode, and when she does the first mission of utilizing the metal, getting the materials, and setting the bomb on the train to New York, that's when I was like, okay, now things are starting to flesh out. Now I'm starting to warm up more to this show. the sequence at the beginning of the second episode with Stick ball, again, I did feel like, as a person of color and seeing cultural, representation and stuff, I'm always super excited to see those things and see how they. And they really did. And just learning more about the show. Stick ball is still played in a Chokata nation, utilizing the elements there, I had the closed captions on. So whenever the ringer came, out, he was Cherokee. So it gave texture to the fact that they were fighting for their land. And I see what they're trying to do with these cold opens. Starting out with the ancestors trying to, like you said, contextualize that historical, that event that happened with their ancestors, in this case, fighting for, literally for their territory. Because if they lost its match, the Cherokee were, going to take over the.

>> Will: know, and then you fast forward to present day. It's Maya. Ah, her struggle, her fight. Taking over kingpin's empire. So I'm seeing where they're trying to. Now that we're talking about it, I'm like, okay, I see where the show is going. When it's one of those shows, I understand why they dropped all five of them at once. But now that we're talking about it, I'm like, there's enough there. we still have three more episodes to go, but they could have possibly stretched this out a week to make this more buzzworthy, because there are a lot of things in this show there's, to your point about making excited for daredevil and even Hawkeye as well. There are a lot of street level things that we haven't gotten in Marvel for a while that really could be fleshed out.

I think the first two episodes of Echo are a bit undercooked

>> Sarah : And I will say this as my kind of closing comment on, the first two episodes of Echo is that I think my biggest issue is, I feel as though, because we only have five episodes and because of the half hour montage sequence, Maya is still undercooked. She is as a character, she is not fully fleshed out as a lead should be, because, yeah, we understand her motivations, we get it. But none of her current actions are making me like, oh, that's really interesting. Oh, I wouldn't have expected that. Or emotionally. I feel like a lot of it is her. And just the story concept itself, it just feels a bit undercooked. And I think they're rushing. but if they didn't know what to do to make it a fully cooked, then I'm glad they're rushing.

>> Will: Yeah. And I think, to your point, I think that's why they released it the way that they did, because I completely agree with you that while it's entertaining, it is a bit undercooked.

>> Sarah : And honestly, right now, I just know the moment we get Fisk, he's just going to take over the show. His presence, I think, is going to just be. That's a little bit unfortunate. But sometimes when you have a villain as good as him, and we've even seen him, and I found it so interesting. I don't know if anybody else was distracted by this, but how he very much took Maya under his wing, saw something in her. But the man couldn't spend the time. This was her biggest red flag that she did miss. The man couldn't find the time to learn sign language.

>> Will: Yes. And had different interpreters each time.

>> Sarah : Yeah. But then again, I'm thinking, in my mind, I'm like, no, it's Fisk. I think it would have been more off character had he taken the time to learn. Like, that wouldn't have made any sense to me, because I'm like, no, you're the bad guy. Honestly, it makes me more mad at Maya, where I'm like, maya, think about it. Think about it. It's right in front of you. Why wouldn't he have learned? If he loves you like you're his own, he would have learned sign language. Oh, my God. but we'll see. Yeah, murder one of the interpreters. That would be hilarious.

Will: I watched a K drama called marry my husband this weekend

well, I think that's it for us on echo. We're going to be covering, the last three episodes next week. But before I forget, I have to tell will about a show I watched this weekend. And, it's a K drama. I've been hearing on all the talk about K dramas to watch out for that are starting in 2024. And this one started, like, january 1. And so I think there was only four episodes available, and it's a 16 episode season. And the show is called marry my husband. Yeah, very interesting. And I kept hearing people talk about how good this show is. And, here's the synopsis. And I'm reading this directly from IMDb, a story about Jiwan, a time limited woman returning back to ten years ago and dreaming of revenge after being killed by her husband, who had an affair with her best friend. That is legitimately the presence of the show. And whenever I heard people bring up the show up, they would say that premise, and my mind would go, what kind of convoluted shit is that?

>> Will: Yes.

>> Sarah : But then I got curious because everyone is saying how good it is, and I watched it and, oh, my God, is it a great show? I don't know what it is, but it is very well acted and arguably as convoluted as the plot is, because, yes, Jiwon has terminal. She, she's on her deathbed. She inadvertently finds out her best friend and her husband are having sex while she's on her deathbed. And in the middle of that, there's a push and a fall and she's dead. But she wakes up ten years in the past. And so essentially the premise is, well, if you have this time m now knowing what you know, how would you do it differently? And there's a twist on top of it that I won't get too into, but all I'll say is, she may or may not be the only time traveler in this show. so it's a very, well, complicated. And, I like how I feel as though the rules are very much out there for us, but the writers manage to make it not as simple as her getting her revenge and being like, well, I'm obviously not going to marry him. Well, if you don't, then who will? Because things have to happen. Fate has to play out. So they do a very good job for a time travel show. It is very good. And, oh, my God, did it win me points when, I'm going to spoil this, but I know not a lot of our listeners watch K dramas, and if you do, and if you're interested in the show, which I'm telling you, you need to watch it. If you have ever been curious about a K drama, I would start on this one. It's on Amazon. It's very.

>> Will: We're.

>> Sarah : We've only just, But. And if you are going to do that, stop listening and go and watch the show and then come back and listen the rest of the podcast, because will's not going to do it, and I'm going to tell him about something.

>> Will: Okay. Yeah. I'm curious, though, but go ahead and spoil away.

The show is set ten years in the future, so it's clever

>> Sarah : Yeah, I called it right away that there's another character, this guy who's also a time traveler as well. but for the first five episodes, six episodes, they don't know that both of them have wounded up back in ten years. They only think that they have. Right?

>> Will: Okay.

>> Sarah : At the end of this episode, there's a quote unquote victory that Jiwon has in making her future more livable, per se. And, in celebration, she goes out on the rooftop and she puts on a certain song. And now this is ten years in the past, 2013. Very important date, 2013. And so she plays no more dream by BTS. Now this other character comes out and bumps into her and notices she's listening to BTS. And he says, you like BTS? And she's like, yeah, well, I wanted to play Dynamite, but I couldn't find it. And then he laughs. I don't think anything of this will. And this will all make sense. Just bear with me, okay? And he says, well, I personally like spring day. And then they smile, and then there's a moment where you see it on the gwan's face. And she realizes, spring day by BTS came out in 2017. Dynamite by BTS came out in 2021.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : and so as a viewer, I'm also, while g one, is realizing it, being like, wait a second, you guys. Any BTS fan knows that, of course, you play no more dream because they debuted in 2013, and by the end of it, because of that, they're just staring at each other, and that's where the episode ends, where it's like, oh, wow. Oh, now they know.

>> Will: So it's a series.

>> Sarah : Yeah, it's a tv show.

>> Will: Okay.

>> Sarah : I was just. Oh, my God. k dramas, they usually mention BTS here and there. It's just pop culture. It is huge. But to use it in that way, such a clever way.

>> Will: Clever.

>> Sarah : I was just thinking that, yeah, it was brilliant. And I should have known better because honestly, when she put on no more dream, I was thinking to myself, why would you put on no more dream? That's so random. I wasn't even thinking, oh, it's 2013, nothing else.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Oh, my God.

>> Will: But that's brilliant because, to your point, no other timeline and stuff. But at the same time, it's very sneaky, too, because all of us, from time to time, will put on an older track, older song from your favorite artist. And so it's like, yeah, that's good. I like that. I might have to check this show out.

>> Sarah : Yeah. again, I think so far we only have six episodes have aired. They drop one on Monday and an episode on Tuesday, and it's a 16 episode season. I have already rewatched the first four episodes, so I've seen the first four episodes twice. That is how much I was just after I finished watching it, I was like, I want to stay in this world. And honestly, I went back because I wanted to see if I would pick up on some nuances, which I didn't really, pick up on anything that I didn't the first time. But still, so far, I'm very entertained by this show. And the more it goes on, the more I am scared for my life that it's going to end. Sad.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Because I feeling I know where we're going, and I don't really like it, but that would make sense if it went that way. so we'll see. But I just had to share that because every now and then, when I find a gem, whether it be a k drama or a random show, I have to express it, and share with you all. And on that note, will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

>> Will: Well, you can find me on Twitter. Well, X, formerly known as Twitter. I'm so thinking about the show that you've shared here. I'm just like, I've got to find out more, from you after we finish here. But, yeah, you can find me on X, formerly known as Twitter, at willmpolk. Willmpolk.

>> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at SJ Belmont. S-J-B-L-M-M-O-N-T please follow our crew on Twitter at Scene  nerd, friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at scene, underscore n, underscore nerd, and visit our website, ww scenenerdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.