Greetings, nerds! Our dynamic duo, Sarah Belmont and Will Polk are back this week with another exciting episode of Scene N Nerd. They kick things off with a lighthearted discussion about Will's Panthers victory and the challenges of keeping up with...
Greetings, nerds! Our dynamic duo, Sarah Belmont and Will Polk are back this week with another exciting episode of Scene N Nerd. They kick things off with a lighthearted discussion about Will's Panthers victory and the challenges of keeping up with games while on the go. Plus Sarah shares her latest TV discovery, "Rivals," a British series on Hulu that caught her attention with its intriguing character dynamics and unexpected storytelling. (0:00)
The conversation then shifts to the "Star Wars: Skeleton Crew" trailer. Will shares his excitement for the series, drawing parallels to "Star Trek: Prodigy" and the nostalgic 80s vibes it brings. (12:44)
Next, Sarah and Will dive into the final two episodes of "Agatha All Along." They discuss the shocking revelations about Billy's role in the story and the clever storytelling that ties everything together. They praise the show's ability to deliver a satisfying and unexpected finale, leaving them eager for a second season. (17:15)
Finally, they break down "The Penguin," episode seven, "Top Hat." Sarah and Will analyze the complex family dynamics and the dark turn of events in Oz's past. They discuss the implications of the explosive ending and how it sets the stage for the series finale. (50:03)
Follow our crew on X (formerly Twitter) @SceneNNerd, friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and Threads @scene_n_nerd, and visit our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts!
Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.
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>> Sarah : Greetings and nerds. This is Scene and Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont and with me as
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always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Will Polk. How are you doing tonight,
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Will?
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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Happy victory Monday. My Panthers
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won.
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>> Sarah : Because you weren't watching them but you were listening to them on
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the radio.
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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I think that may be my m, my go to move
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for the rest of the season. I was listening to
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the radio network. I was thinking of coming back from dropping
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my kid off. what was home for the weekend
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and back at college. And Yeah, yeah, I
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think that might be my go to move. Well, they're actually
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playing. Yeah, they're actually playing in Germany this week.
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So for playing against the Planet Giants. So
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it's going to be an early Sunday morning game for, for me. So it's gonna
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be so like we're bumping the the, our podcast
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recording up tonight to. Due to the election.
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>> Sarah : I, so I did my normal
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Sunday routine of Agatha in the morning
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and Penguin at night.
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>> Will: Yeah.
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>> Sarah : And I in between I told you I got
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a haircut.
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>> Will: Right.
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>> Sarah : And then I I come home and I'm like,
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okay, so what should I
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randomly throw on? And
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I had Scene. Been seeing clips.
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You know me, I like the
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universe has to be telling me,
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not Will, but the universe has to tell me
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that I need to watch something. So there's
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these clips and I figured out the name of the
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show. I never heard of it. I never seen any
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promotion about this damn show outside of these
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random clips that had come
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up on my for you page on
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online so on
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TikTok mainly. And the show is called
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Rivals. Have you heard about this?
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>> Will: I have.
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>> Sarah : Oh, you have heard about Rivals?
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>> Will: I've heard about it but I haven't watched a single minute of it. but
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I've Scene it like maybe. Yeah,
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same kind of thing where it was just like maybe popped up on my timeline or
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whatever. Didn't really. I mean it just was there.
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But I don't know too much about it.
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>> Sarah : Yeah. So essentially I see
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and I've watched. I haven't finished it. I think it's
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eight episodes long.
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and I think I'm at the start of
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episode four because they're long
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ass episodes in my opinion.
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But it's on Hulu
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and it's British,
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so there are moments when I still
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have my subtitles on because there are moments when I have
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no idea what they're saying. No
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idea. And so
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here's the funny thing. Okay, so rewind and go
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back a little weeks. Every a few weeks, everyone.
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and I told you about a different show on Hulu,
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this little show called Tell Me Lies and how much
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freaking nudity and sex there was.
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>> Will: Right.
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>> Sarah : This is like if I had to
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compare, because this is what really
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caught me off guard about this whole rival
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show. And I'll get to the plot, but
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I just have to say this is
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like if Tell Me Lies was
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centered around middle aged
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British people. Yeah.
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It would be the same show.
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So much sex. So much
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sex and so many. I mean, you have about.
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They did a really good job in terms of.
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You have these marriages.
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and it becomes very clear in the
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first two episodes, maybe even the first
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episode alone, that the
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marriages all have their strengths and their
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weaknesses and no, none of them are
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perfect. There's a lot of cheating, there's a lot
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of,
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there's a lot of affairs happening.
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And,
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I just was a little bit shocked
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again by. And I'm not approved.
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But there's something about these TV shows where
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I'm just like, what is Hulu doing right now?
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>> Will: You know, it's funny you bring that up to me. I know there's been a lot of.
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There has been some discussion about
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like, how much sex or lack thereof,
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there has been in some recent
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productions and shows and stuff. But it sounds like you
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stumbled upon two years recently. That, doesn't
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seem to be the case.
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>> Sarah : Yeah, but. And what I will say
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though, that especially because
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comparing Tell Me Lies to
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Rivals is that
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Tell Me Lies, there's a lot of sex scenes,
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but the sex scenes aren't really
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in a way connected to, explaining
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the relationship. Okay.
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>> Will: Okay.
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>> Sarah : Between two characters. What I thought was,
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was interesting, was there was
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a whole montage of. And I'm, and
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I'm being serious about sex scenes. Like you
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saw at the end, I think, of episode one, you
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see flashes of each couple,
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or, or, or what you think
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will be a couple, and turns out someone's having an affair.
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And, but you can tell
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why the relationship is
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the way it is just based
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on the sexual positions and how,
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each character is
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behaving in that. Which I had never Scene done
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before. And I was like, okay, that's an interesting way
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to, Because it, paints a
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picture of honesty, about it. And it's not
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necessarily just to show nudity or
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a sex scene for the purpose of it. No,
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this is like what
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honestly, at the core this show is about is about
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these couples who. Or
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this circle of Friends who
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are in their, having these midlife
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crisises and still trying to figure out who they
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are and what love is.
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especially in a very class based
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system like England and
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London in particular, which they do a good job.
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And so this show
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is also set in the 80s, 1980s.
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So that's another reason why I still
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don't really know characters names because it's
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about two.
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Why, how I ended up getting the show reckoned me,
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I'll never know.
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>> Will: Yeah, I was like, so, yeah, what's, what are you watching on your
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algorithm there?
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>> Sarah : I don't know. The, the,
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the rivalry between these two
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people. I know David Tennant plays one of them,
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and is doing a very good job.
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you mentioned last week you watched Jessica Jones
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and his character in Jessica Jones.
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There's a turn at one point with his character on this
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show where you're like, oh, like
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you meet the two main
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protagonists, the Rivals, if
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you say, and one of them
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you like and one of them you don't. And then as
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the slow show progresses,
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I feel as though they purposely start to make
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that change where it's like suddenly like,
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oh, you're not the good guy.
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>> Will: Okay.
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>> Sarah : And you're not like, none of
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these people are good. And again, that's why it
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probably reminds me of Tell Me Lies.
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But it's also how
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they go about navigating
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their own flaws in a way. So
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anyway, long story short, I watched
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Rivals. I'll probably finish it. I'm not
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necessarily recommending it.
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It's very different and like I
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said, I don't really know a lot of the characters
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names. I don't really know
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what this and that. Maybe that's why I do find
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it a bit interesting is because I'm like, hopefully by
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the end of it I'll understand the true rivalry that's
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going on because I've never heard of any of these people.
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Granted it's British and it's, it's
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occurring in the 1980s so way before my
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time.
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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was looking while you were talking
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about it. I was looking at the, Looking at the IMDb and I was just
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looking at the cast and you know, just to take it, bring it back to.
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Since we are, you know, primarily comic book, TV
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show, podcast. so I actually wanted it. I think
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I know where I remember seeing it now. it was, Nafisa
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Williams. yeah, she was in black like
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lightning. Yeah, yeah, that's. I think I saw it on her
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Instagram page.
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>> Sarah : It took me at Least two or three episodes
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to figure that out because I was suddenly like, okay, it's
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driving me crazy. I know you, I know
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you. Where are you from? And as soon as I looked
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that up, I was like, yep, that makes sense now.
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Like, it's not a very different
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character from what I remember.
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but see,
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the show also reminds me to an
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extent of the morning show.
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And there's another character that
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the Cameron who she plays on
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Rivals reminds me of on that show.
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>> Will: Okay.
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>> Sarah : so, yeah, it's.
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It. Even though it's
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so pun intended, foreign to me,
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there's still this familiarity, whether
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it be her or whether it be like the fact that
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David Tennant is right, in that
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position and at the head.
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or it's just that I watched Tell Me
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Lies and so I'm used to watching a bunch of sex
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crazed, horrible people screw each
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other over, both figuratively and
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literally. So it's just.
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Yeah, yeah. I don't know what is going
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on with Hulu right now, but
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if, if you're suddenly like, I
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need to watch two people having sex. Hulu has
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shows.
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>> Will: Yeah, just, just go, go on your favorite streaming
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platform instead. Instead of having to go on the Internet, you can just do
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right that.
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>> Sarah : I have been keeping track of
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all the shows I've been watching and I've also been
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keeping track of what streaming platform they're
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on. Because I'm curious, by the end of this year,
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if I look at everything,
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where, where did the most.
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What, what, what. What streaming
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platform did I watch the most? And I'm only tracking
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new shows, so rewatch
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is thrown out the window. Or shows from previous
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year. So probably I rewatched the Bear season
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two twice this year. So neither of those
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watches count for, Hulu. But.
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And then also I'm curious, by the end of the
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year, the shows like
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my top five, will they
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be all centered on one platform or will they
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be spread out or will like three beyond one
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and one beyond another and
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then one on the other? So, yeah,
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I'm curious about the streaming wars that are happening.
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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it will be interesting. I was just, I was just working
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on our schedule for the, rest of the year and I was
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just, I was looking at the, looking at our
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December calendar and I was like, oh, man, this
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top. because there's not going to be movies this year because I haven't seen
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anything. It's going to be very TV heavy list this
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year.
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>> Sarah : Yeah. And I'm not going to do a, K drama because I.
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And we'll talk about it. We'll talk about that. But
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there's no, there's no. Nothing about
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K dramas. But I will. I will explain
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why later this year. before we
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get into the shows that we have to talk about
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and we have a lot to say about, Will wants
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me to just mention this. not because I've watched
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this, but because he wants me to mention this.
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the Star Wars Skeleton Crew trailer number
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two is online.
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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool.
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Very cool. Yeah, I, you know, I threw this on here
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usually, you know, it's the.
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Well, has she or hasn't she watched this
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trailer? And notice I didn't put the Marvel one on there
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because I don't think either. I mean, you may have watched it. I know
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I have not. as far as the Marvel,
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actually. Okay. Oh, okay, well, see, here we
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go.
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>> Sarah : In my very roundabout way. Yeah,
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I have at least
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once or twice. Like, maybe. Okay, I
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guess. I guess I've watched three quarters of it.
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>> Will: Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah, I haven't. I think
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maybe. No, I think, whenever I just happened
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to retweet it, I saw the first few like, seconds of it and that was about
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it. Yeah. ah, but
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I did watch the Star wars trailer,
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skeleton true Crate 2 trailer. Actually,
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what got me to do it, I saw. Well, they did release the poster.
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I guess it was maybe Friday. And then, and I
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guess the second trailer dropped and actually it was a
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reactor. I was actually the first time I did
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watch the trailer was just a trailer reaction, just with a YouTuber
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that, that I met through, our friends over at A plus.
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>> Sarah : Opinions.
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>> Will: Opinions, yeah, had had on their Star wars
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show, Crystal, ah, Cyber. So, yeah, so I watched
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her trailer reaction to it and then I was like, oh, okay.
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they had the. The score which
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was, you know, made, you know, had the
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song Major Tom. It was from the 80s, which of
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course this trailer, you know, if you saw the first trailer and
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now the second trailer definitely has like the whole 80s
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Goonies vibe.
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and also as far as more recent shows,
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I would say it reminded me a lot of Star Trek Prodigy because
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there are kids in this
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series. And when I saw the second trailer, it
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reminded me a lot of the premise that, was behind Star Trek Prodigy,
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which is animated show, that just wrapped up a
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season two not too long ago. Not sure Netflix is going to
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renew it for a season three. I hope they do. But, the. The
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two showrunners behind it decided to do another project,
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for I think
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Disney or somebody else. So, I don't know is that season
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two, season three may not happen. Or if it does, it may be
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way, way off in the future. But getting back to Star
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Wars, I thought it was, you know, I'm looking
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forward to this series. I think it's definitely looks like it's going to be
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something that's different from, you know, it's clearly set
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in the Star wars universe. But, you know, definitely had a little meta
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moments with all the 80s vibes that's going on. And like I
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said, know, using up doing a
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song dubbed in, Star wars language, from
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the 80s, you know, brought kind of real
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world into the Star wars world, which was kind of like, oh,
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okay. Which, you know, they do that every now and then. I mean, you know,
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Han Solo's famous line, see you in hell, Empire Strikes
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Back. So, you know, they have those meta moments like
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that. But, yeah, it prepared to premieres
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December 3rd and I'll have two episodes
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to, kick us off. So, there you go.
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>> Sarah : I had it. Very interesting that you're going to make me watch
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another Star wars show.
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>> Will: We always have a choice.
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>> Sarah : Did my time with Acolyte. Yeah, yeah.
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Don't make promises you can't keep. Well, don't make
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promises.
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>> Will: Well, I was lucky to have it. You know, holiday break will come right
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before we get too deep into.
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>> Sarah : I just will point out. I will point out, out like,
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I also say that because our
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longtime listeners will probably have
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probably been keeping notes that so far we have promised
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to return to Invincible. Haven't returned to
341
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Invincible. And then up until
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00:16:11,232 --> 00:16:13,676
we off show decided,
343
00:16:14,446 --> 00:16:17,294
we were fully intended in August for me
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to finish m watching
345
00:16:20,254 --> 00:16:22,800
the Acolyte. but that never
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happened. So. Yeah, funny, funny. Anyway,
347
00:16:25,904 --> 00:16:28,448
but shows that I did
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finish watching all the way through.
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Let's start with Agatha along
350
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the final two episodes. The first one, episode
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eight, Follow me, my friend. The glory at the end,
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essentially, this can be summed up. This is the end of the
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road and
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we talk about this all the time.
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Like the shows continue to be
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defined by their
357
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ending and arguably
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Agatha along
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with the last three, four
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episodes. So basically half
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of the season or a fair amount. And it
362
00:17:10,330 --> 00:17:12,621
did start off strong. Yeah,
363
00:17:13,306 --> 00:17:16,246
it, it demolished
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00:17:17,626 --> 00:17:20,474
some of the, some of the endings and some of
365
00:17:20,490 --> 00:17:23,338
the seasons that we've received on Disney plus from the
366
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MCU over the last, like, year and a
367
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half. I, mean, this is, this is on, on
368
00:17:28,847 --> 00:17:31,347
par with Loki endings.
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because no
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one. And, And maybe it's because
371
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I've also very much am looking
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at things like, I don't want to hear
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people talk about. I don't want to hear a theory spouse. But
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00:17:46,116 --> 00:17:49,024
I swear, I don't know if this.
375
00:17:49,364 --> 00:17:52,264
What the twist. The ending
376
00:17:52,604 --> 00:17:54,944
was on anyone's bingo card.
377
00:17:56,844 --> 00:17:59,788
>> Will: No, I don't think so. I mean, even though the breadcrumbs are right, if
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you're talking about Billy being the one
379
00:18:02,732 --> 00:18:03,724
who conjured up the road.
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>> Sarah : About the road. Yeah, the actual road. Because.
381
00:18:06,804 --> 00:18:09,764
Because the whole depth of it all, like. Like that
382
00:18:09,804 --> 00:18:12,388
I put that on storyline,
383
00:18:12,476 --> 00:18:15,164
almost like. Like it's important
384
00:18:15,324 --> 00:18:17,852
for very many reasons, but the
385
00:18:17,908 --> 00:18:20,024
big revelation.
386
00:18:21,164 --> 00:18:23,828
And it's ironic because the show is called Agatha
387
00:18:23,876 --> 00:18:26,604
along, when really, at the end of the day, it was
388
00:18:26,644 --> 00:18:28,324
Billy all along this season.
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>> Will: Yeah, for sure. And I love
390
00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:34,332
Agatha's line, too. It's just like you did, you know, you did something
391
00:18:34,388 --> 00:18:37,264
interesting with your powers that your mom did.
392
00:18:39,024 --> 00:18:41,864
>> Sarah : Yeah. And last week
393
00:18:41,904 --> 00:18:44,760
or the other week, when we were talking about the Tower
394
00:18:44,832 --> 00:18:47,616
reversed episode, as I like to call
395
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,004
it, Lilia's, episode,
396
00:18:50,984 --> 00:18:53,616
we talked about how, like, all these breadcrumbs were
397
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,288
there, and. But nobody was paying attention
398
00:18:56,416 --> 00:18:59,040
enough to really have already
399
00:18:59,112 --> 00:19:01,832
put together or those pieces.
400
00:19:01,928 --> 00:19:04,392
And so that's what made this
401
00:19:04,448 --> 00:19:07,400
revelation so much sweeter, is
402
00:19:07,432 --> 00:19:10,277
that, it hits you, and it's like, I see
403
00:19:10,317 --> 00:19:13,021
all the logic. That's amazing.
404
00:19:13,149 --> 00:19:16,061
And. And then it just increases rewatch
405
00:19:16,109 --> 00:19:19,013
ability because people will want to watch the beginning so
406
00:19:19,045 --> 00:19:21,661
they can see everything that they missed,
407
00:19:21,709 --> 00:19:24,657
or things will stand out in a different way.
408
00:19:25,277 --> 00:19:27,977
And it's just, I.
409
00:19:28,677 --> 00:19:31,611
I was. And also on top of it.
410
00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:34,279
On top of it, like,
411
00:19:34,463 --> 00:19:37,359
we're talking about the very end of episode
412
00:19:37,423 --> 00:19:39,907
eight is when Billy returns home
413
00:19:40,327 --> 00:19:43,319
and he looks in his room and all
414
00:19:43,343 --> 00:19:46,311
of the pieces are there, and it's just like. And
415
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,079
then you hear the line from Lilia of saying, you're the
416
00:19:49,103 --> 00:19:52,087
magician and you wanted this,
417
00:19:52,207 --> 00:19:55,103
so you made it happen. But
418
00:19:55,215 --> 00:19:58,095
on top of it, it's just like, okay,
419
00:19:58,151 --> 00:20:00,979
well, that felt like a very, like,
420
00:20:01,043 --> 00:20:03,610
aha. End, of season
421
00:20:03,786 --> 00:20:04,954
cliffhanger.
422
00:20:05,138 --> 00:20:05,714
>> Will: Yeah.
423
00:20:05,818 --> 00:20:08,674
>> Sarah : But they were like,
424
00:20:08,858 --> 00:20:11,634
you probably also. Because I'll admit, I was also
425
00:20:11,698 --> 00:20:14,522
like, wait, wait, can I clarify? So he
426
00:20:14,602 --> 00:20:16,338
made, like, what?
427
00:20:16,450 --> 00:20:17,098
>> Will: Huh?
428
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:19,362
>> Sarah : Like, I needed the final
429
00:20:19,442 --> 00:20:21,742
episode, which
430
00:20:22,122 --> 00:20:24,542
is truly Agatha's episode,
431
00:20:25,082 --> 00:20:27,506
and to really put the pieces all
432
00:20:27,554 --> 00:20:29,482
together because
433
00:20:30,782 --> 00:20:32,802
you're. You're just like,
434
00:20:33,382 --> 00:20:35,438
oh, so now I get it.
435
00:20:35,630 --> 00:20:38,222
So the way they were, like,
436
00:20:38,382 --> 00:20:40,990
the road was a
437
00:20:41,046 --> 00:20:43,947
con for Agatha M.
438
00:20:43,947 --> 00:20:46,214
And it had been
439
00:20:46,358 --> 00:20:48,950
buried the Con
440
00:20:49,046 --> 00:20:51,322
became a myth, became a legend,
441
00:20:51,902 --> 00:20:54,202
and then Billy took that
442
00:20:54,592 --> 00:20:57,352
and made it into a reality. And it's just.
443
00:20:57,432 --> 00:20:59,288
Oh, so well done.
444
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,232
>> Will: So, so well done. Yeah. And one. As soon as I
445
00:21:02,272 --> 00:21:05,002
finished, the episode, both episodes, I was like,
446
00:21:06,062 --> 00:21:08,798
perfect. I'm so glad that they had these
447
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:10,242
dropped back to back.
448
00:21:10,862 --> 00:21:12,317
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.
449
00:21:12,317 --> 00:21:14,900
>> Will: because they really, you know, it really was
450
00:21:14,956 --> 00:21:17,388
like, you know, it was. It felt
451
00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:20,014
like a movie
452
00:21:20,078 --> 00:21:22,638
and a complete story.
453
00:21:22,790 --> 00:21:25,614
And the other thing too, that I really,
454
00:21:25,678 --> 00:21:28,670
really enjoyed about it was, you know,
455
00:21:28,726 --> 00:21:31,590
I've got a joke during over the
456
00:21:31,686 --> 00:21:34,230
course of our reviews. Oh, yeah, well, you know, we'll get the
457
00:21:34,246 --> 00:21:36,710
Marvel usual third act and, you know,
458
00:21:36,806 --> 00:21:39,322
fireworks and, you know, blah, blah, blah.
459
00:21:39,702 --> 00:21:42,454
But they didn't do that. I mean, yes, there was a Marvel
460
00:21:42,518 --> 00:21:45,482
third act fight in episode eight, but,
461
00:21:45,582 --> 00:21:48,262
you know, all of it was like,
462
00:21:48,602 --> 00:21:51,298
basically we just saw the flashes when death,
463
00:21:51,370 --> 00:21:53,742
like, threw Billy over into the greenhouse.
464
00:21:54,082 --> 00:21:56,994
So, you know, so we had those
465
00:21:57,098 --> 00:21:59,994
moments, but, you know, but that wasn't the focal point. I mean,
466
00:22:00,018 --> 00:22:02,842
it was all about the story and all about the breadcrumbs and
467
00:22:02,882 --> 00:22:05,222
like, like you said, I mean, it was just
468
00:22:05,562 --> 00:22:06,302
the
469
00:22:08,642 --> 00:22:11,634
really how he conjured things
470
00:22:11,778 --> 00:22:13,832
from, you know, the
471
00:22:14,692 --> 00:22:17,652
ultimate con game that, you know, the Nikon artist that,
472
00:22:17,772 --> 00:22:19,752
that Agatha is,
473
00:22:21,292 --> 00:22:24,188
was m. Just. Was just brilliant stroke.
474
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:27,020
I mean, as far as, like, you know, you know, we're going into
475
00:22:27,076 --> 00:22:29,804
that episode eight, I was like, oh, you
476
00:22:29,828 --> 00:22:32,748
know, we will, we will. You know, I was
477
00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:35,740
anticipating. And I was. I was anticipating the
478
00:22:35,756 --> 00:22:38,652
straight out between Agatha and Death. And I was
479
00:22:38,692 --> 00:22:41,070
thinking like, oh, yeah, we're gonna get a Tommy,
480
00:22:41,246 --> 00:22:44,096
like, show up. I never did. I will
481
00:22:44,136 --> 00:22:46,808
say I never thought Wanda was going to show up because
482
00:22:46,952 --> 00:22:49,896
I think they made this very clear that this is. This is
483
00:22:49,936 --> 00:22:52,520
not Wanda's story. Now it's about. Even though
484
00:22:52,608 --> 00:22:55,176
Juana's presence is there clearly.
485
00:22:55,336 --> 00:22:58,256
But I never. I was
486
00:22:58,376 --> 00:23:01,368
really hoping that they wouldn't go there. And I'm m glad it did
487
00:23:01,392 --> 00:23:04,280
not go there. So. Yeah, I was.
488
00:23:04,408 --> 00:23:05,116
Yes.
489
00:23:06,216 --> 00:23:08,848
>> Sarah : Yeah. I would just like to say that
490
00:23:08,952 --> 00:23:11,560
I never thought we would see
491
00:23:11,608 --> 00:23:13,968
Tommy. I never thought we would see
492
00:23:14,152 --> 00:23:17,080
Wanda or Vision. I don't know why,
493
00:23:17,248 --> 00:23:20,168
but that possibility never happened in
494
00:23:20,192 --> 00:23:22,712
my mind. I thought,
495
00:23:22,904 --> 00:23:25,776
like, in a way, the way
496
00:23:25,816 --> 00:23:27,876
they ended episode eight,
497
00:23:28,696 --> 00:23:31,688
I was just like, oh, my God, we have one
498
00:23:31,712 --> 00:23:33,168
more episode. Thank God.
499
00:23:33,352 --> 00:23:36,264
>> Will: Yeah, me too. It felt
500
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,376
like a finale, Ellie. It really did.
501
00:23:39,436 --> 00:23:42,428
>> Sarah : And that's why, like, I had kind of checked out of the
502
00:23:42,452 --> 00:23:45,207
fight. But at, the same time, the fight,
503
00:23:45,311 --> 00:23:48,263
in my opinion, was so short that it
504
00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:51,103
was perfect. Because you just
505
00:23:51,159 --> 00:23:53,647
needed to get to that point where Agatha
506
00:23:53,711 --> 00:23:54,955
tells him,
507
00:23:56,385 --> 00:23:58,313
she's gonna sacrifice herself.
508
00:23:58,449 --> 00:23:59,165
>> Will: Yeah.
509
00:23:59,585 --> 00:24:02,045
>> Sarah : And. And then there's the double cross.
510
00:24:02,385 --> 00:24:05,169
And you need the double cross. And then you
511
00:24:05,217 --> 00:24:07,553
need that moment of her
512
00:24:07,649 --> 00:24:10,085
actual sacrificing herself,
513
00:24:11,075 --> 00:24:12,775
because of
514
00:24:14,235 --> 00:24:17,195
her, what
515
00:24:17,235 --> 00:24:19,579
she couldn't do for her son, essentially.
516
00:24:19,707 --> 00:24:22,507
And that was the
517
00:24:22,531 --> 00:24:25,019
big moment of the fight. It wasn't
518
00:24:25,067 --> 00:24:27,843
necessarily about the powers and them going
519
00:24:27,899 --> 00:24:30,455
one on one. It was more about that
520
00:24:31,865 --> 00:24:34,457
because. And they set that up at the very beginning of the
521
00:24:34,481 --> 00:24:37,233
episode when you have this very.
522
00:24:37,329 --> 00:24:40,297
What felt like the longest scene in the entire
523
00:24:40,401 --> 00:24:43,299
episode, maybe is
524
00:24:43,427 --> 00:24:46,275
between her and Death and Rio at the very
525
00:24:46,315 --> 00:24:49,059
beginning. And you're getting these hints
526
00:24:49,147 --> 00:24:50,895
about how,
527
00:24:52,395 --> 00:24:55,075
like, why is Death still here? And it's
528
00:24:55,115 --> 00:24:57,681
because. What I found so interesting
529
00:24:57,843 --> 00:25:00,705
is it's because Billy's an abomination
530
00:25:01,685 --> 00:25:04,365
and she wants to remove
531
00:25:04,445 --> 00:25:06,925
him and make sure and
532
00:25:06,965 --> 00:25:09,385
guarantee he can't bring Tommy,
533
00:25:09,685 --> 00:25:12,603
the Tommy, back. And it's
534
00:25:12,619 --> 00:25:15,595
just. I like that. Those were other things. I never thought about
535
00:25:15,635 --> 00:25:18,635
that. I mean, like, I had just naturally assumed
536
00:25:18,755 --> 00:25:20,935
he jumped into somebody's body too.
537
00:25:23,065 --> 00:25:25,721
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And I think that was.
538
00:25:25,913 --> 00:25:27,645
Yeah, I think that was very important.
539
00:25:27,985 --> 00:25:30,665
>> Sarah : That's like Death wanted him
540
00:25:30,785 --> 00:25:31,457
gone.
541
00:25:31,601 --> 00:25:32,170
>> Will: Yeah.
542
00:25:33,405 --> 00:25:36,167
>> Sarah : yeah, but. But sorry, go ahead. I
543
00:25:36,191 --> 00:25:38,263
was rambling a little bit much.
544
00:25:38,439 --> 00:25:41,175
>> Will: No, no, no, no. I was just going to pick up that point about death
545
00:25:41,215 --> 00:25:44,207
wanted him gone and making it very clear that to
546
00:25:44,231 --> 00:25:46,675
Agatha that he had to make the choice,
547
00:25:47,345 --> 00:25:48,525
you know, because,
548
00:25:50,215 --> 00:25:52,715
you know, she, if he, you know, because
549
00:25:53,495 --> 00:25:56,103
if, if, if he, if she just. If, you
550
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,095
know, if Agatha takes him out, then he can just reincarnate himself
551
00:25:59,135 --> 00:26:02,095
and we start his whole thing over again. So they really get to that point
552
00:26:02,135 --> 00:26:05,087
about the abomination. And then the other thing too, that
553
00:26:05,111 --> 00:26:08,079
you were talking about, the fight that, that I just wanted to bring up
554
00:26:08,167 --> 00:26:11,071
what made that scene so
555
00:26:11,143 --> 00:26:13,927
strong and works so well, especially how, you
556
00:26:13,951 --> 00:26:16,580
know, how they built up to it early,
557
00:26:16,844 --> 00:26:19,832
on in the ep. you know, just to
558
00:26:19,848 --> 00:26:22,204
reinforce the points we were talking about with the
559
00:26:22,584 --> 00:26:24,244
Agatha bringing him in
560
00:26:24,864 --> 00:26:27,726
is, and really sets up the. Sets up
561
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:30,318
the second episode as
562
00:26:30,366 --> 00:26:33,054
well is when Billy, like, gets, you know,
563
00:26:33,174 --> 00:26:35,374
gets into Agatha's head and, you know,
564
00:26:35,494 --> 00:26:37,961
questions, is this how, Nic died?
565
00:26:38,701 --> 00:26:39,357
Nikki died?
566
00:26:39,389 --> 00:26:40,041
>> Sarah : Yeah.
567
00:26:40,476 --> 00:26:43,348
>> Will: Because again, that just, you know, I
568
00:26:43,372 --> 00:26:43,936
think.
569
00:26:48,236 --> 00:26:51,068
>> Sarah : Yeah. Oh, sorry. I thought for some reason we had moved on
570
00:26:51,092 --> 00:26:53,940
to episode nine for a moment, but. No. Yeah,
571
00:26:53,988 --> 00:26:56,740
that, that was, that was what allowed her
572
00:26:56,788 --> 00:26:58,916
to actually self sacrifice herself.
573
00:26:59,036 --> 00:27:02,012
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just. Yeah. So I just thought
574
00:27:02,044 --> 00:27:04,932
Those are just really. Just, you know, just to go back to that point earlier,
575
00:27:04,964 --> 00:27:07,868
I didn't get. I just wanted to really, you know,
576
00:27:07,932 --> 00:27:10,356
reinforce why I thought the. The what.
577
00:27:10,436 --> 00:27:12,594
What made this penultimate
578
00:27:12,650 --> 00:27:15,623
episode, just work so on so
579
00:27:15,647 --> 00:27:18,633
many levels. again, it's just all
580
00:27:18,737 --> 00:27:21,537
this is all the character. All the character beats
581
00:27:21,689 --> 00:27:24,609
and. And it really just like, pulls
582
00:27:24,665 --> 00:27:27,417
all those little. All the. All the various threads that we
583
00:27:27,449 --> 00:27:29,833
had all up to in the prior seven
584
00:27:29,897 --> 00:27:32,809
episodes and things that were said, things that
585
00:27:32,825 --> 00:27:35,585
were done. You know, I. I just felt they were all
586
00:27:35,633 --> 00:27:38,471
very satisfying payoffs, in this episode
587
00:27:38,551 --> 00:27:41,295
and to the point where I was just like, wait a minute.
588
00:27:41,463 --> 00:27:44,327
I knew we had one more episode to go, but I was
589
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,159
like, okay, they did all this in episode eight. I mean,
590
00:27:47,215 --> 00:27:50,047
what the. What the hell are they going to do in episode nine?
591
00:27:50,239 --> 00:27:52,927
Because. Yeah, yeah, because, you know, we
592
00:27:52,959 --> 00:27:55,859
also learn about, Jen, you
593
00:27:55,875 --> 00:27:57,791
know, Agatha bonding. Jen.
594
00:27:59,221 --> 00:28:01,453
>> Sarah : that whole thing was just
595
00:28:01,597 --> 00:28:04,105
like, well, well, I
596
00:28:04,233 --> 00:28:07,089
forgot. Or I was just.
597
00:28:07,185 --> 00:28:08,905
I had to make some money.
598
00:28:09,073 --> 00:28:09,781
>> Will: Yeah.
599
00:28:11,081 --> 00:28:13,841
>> Sarah : Oliver. And you really feel for
600
00:28:13,881 --> 00:28:16,537
Jen as she's doing the unbinding
601
00:28:16,689 --> 00:28:18,861
spell. And I feel as though
602
00:28:19,561 --> 00:28:22,177
that scene in particular between
603
00:28:22,329 --> 00:28:24,536
her and Agatha just,
604
00:28:24,905 --> 00:28:25,821
showcases.
605
00:28:28,331 --> 00:28:31,259
Even as early as WandaVision, you could tell
606
00:28:31,315 --> 00:28:33,751
that Kathryn Hahn in this part
607
00:28:34,451 --> 00:28:36,471
just needed more
608
00:28:36,771 --> 00:28:38,511
time because
609
00:28:39,411 --> 00:28:42,107
she walks such a fascinating line
610
00:28:42,179 --> 00:28:44,351
that's very difficult to do of where
611
00:28:44,771 --> 00:28:47,071
you actually like Agatha,
612
00:28:48,171 --> 00:28:51,059
even though, you know, she's a complete
613
00:28:51,155 --> 00:28:53,471
phony con artist bitch.
614
00:28:53,931 --> 00:28:56,656
Like, she. She,
615
00:28:56,606 --> 00:28:58,414
She's not a good person.
616
00:28:58,590 --> 00:28:59,094
>> Will: No.
617
00:28:59,190 --> 00:29:02,186
>> Sarah : But there's also something about her.
618
00:29:02,966 --> 00:29:05,574
Her almost flat out
619
00:29:05,670 --> 00:29:07,666
ownership. Like,
620
00:29:08,301 --> 00:29:10,877
we're like, yeah, I did it, whatever.
621
00:29:10,989 --> 00:29:13,677
Moving on. Like, what do you expect?
622
00:29:13,869 --> 00:29:16,677
That you're just like, okay, well, at least she's not sitting
623
00:29:16,709 --> 00:29:19,361
in here. Denial or.
624
00:29:20,941 --> 00:29:23,191
It's just. It's not like
625
00:29:24,091 --> 00:29:26,907
she's not bad, but she's.
626
00:29:26,979 --> 00:29:29,903
She's not good either. I. Every
627
00:29:29,927 --> 00:29:32,721
time I think about. And, the
628
00:29:32,761 --> 00:29:35,601
anti hero. Do you know. Do you know what the
629
00:29:35,641 --> 00:29:37,741
first thought comes to my mind?
630
00:29:38,601 --> 00:29:39,461
>> Will: Do you?
631
00:29:41,081 --> 00:29:43,706
>> Sarah : Okay. Huh?
632
00:29:43,706 --> 00:29:44,206
Huh?
633
00:29:44,217 --> 00:29:45,785
>> Will: Go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead.
634
00:29:45,913 --> 00:29:48,793
>> Sarah : No, no, no, it's not Yaba Shuge. No, no, no, no. We're
635
00:29:48,817 --> 00:29:51,581
not talking about the Penguin quite yet, but.
636
00:29:51,881 --> 00:29:54,833
No. What. My. My honest to
637
00:29:54,857 --> 00:29:57,737
God first thought is a movie that I don't think neither
638
00:29:57,769 --> 00:30:00,601
of us have Scene, but we've Scene the trailers.
639
00:30:00,681 --> 00:30:02,061
So Black Adam.
640
00:30:05,601 --> 00:30:08,401
Just because I know. I know from people
641
00:30:08,441 --> 00:30:11,425
who watched that movie that they did not do a good
642
00:30:11,473 --> 00:30:14,241
job and he never really was the
643
00:30:14,281 --> 00:30:17,037
bad guy, even though so.
644
00:30:17,189 --> 00:30:19,405
And. But she is, well,
645
00:30:19,493 --> 00:30:22,461
simultaneously not I wouldn't
646
00:30:22,501 --> 00:30:25,213
say being the hero, but being that
647
00:30:25,357 --> 00:30:27,637
our protagonist. So it's just.
648
00:30:27,829 --> 00:30:30,757
It's she. They. They
649
00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:33,001
do such a good job between her performance
650
00:30:33,461 --> 00:30:36,437
because she goes from like brushing it
651
00:30:36,469 --> 00:30:39,165
off to Jen starting the spell.
652
00:30:39,333 --> 00:30:41,821
And the longer it goes on, you see it
653
00:30:41,901 --> 00:30:44,423
through her face like
654
00:30:44,487 --> 00:30:47,127
Agatha's. You see
655
00:30:47,199 --> 00:30:49,091
glimmers of,
656
00:30:49,716 --> 00:30:51,572
Remorse almost.
657
00:30:51,724 --> 00:30:52,268
>> Will: Yeah.
658
00:30:52,372 --> 00:30:55,156
>> Sarah : And then. And then Jen gets her powers and
659
00:30:55,196 --> 00:30:58,140
disappears. And then you have
660
00:30:58,268 --> 00:31:01,236
this moment where you're like, oh, okay, so this is where she's
661
00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:04,084
gonna get Billy to
662
00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:07,124
turn himself over to death. Okay. But no, that doesn't
663
00:31:07,180 --> 00:31:09,920
happen. She actually. They start
664
00:31:09,968 --> 00:31:12,800
to. Let's find Tommy. Let's do this. Let's bring that
665
00:31:12,848 --> 00:31:15,672
Tommy. And this is. Leads
666
00:31:15,704 --> 00:31:18,368
into something that between both episodes, I thought was
667
00:31:18,432 --> 00:31:21,046
really clever. was
668
00:31:23,546 --> 00:31:26,354
Billy is
669
00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:28,762
now more like
670
00:31:28,834 --> 00:31:31,418
Agatha than his own mom.
671
00:31:31,602 --> 00:31:32,406
>> Will: Yep.
672
00:31:34,316 --> 00:31:37,164
>> Sarah : but even maybe that's not right
673
00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:40,028
because there was this little old movie called Doctor
674
00:31:40,052 --> 00:31:42,412
Strange 2 where Wanda went a little
675
00:31:42,444 --> 00:31:45,284
cuckoo. So maybe that's
676
00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:47,256
not completely right. But
677
00:31:47,716 --> 00:31:50,364
there's like
678
00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:53,148
they. And it's not
679
00:31:53,212 --> 00:31:56,016
for better necessarily.
680
00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:57,268
>> Will: No, no.
681
00:31:57,412 --> 00:32:00,068
>> Sarah : She did like the realization that
682
00:32:00,132 --> 00:32:02,932
he's the person who made up the road. Well,
683
00:32:03,044 --> 00:32:05,716
you therefore then killed
684
00:32:05,756 --> 00:32:06,676
Mrs. Hart.
685
00:32:06,796 --> 00:32:07,536
>> Will: Yep.
686
00:32:07,731 --> 00:32:10,418
>> Sarah : which thank God they kept that going with
687
00:32:10,442 --> 00:32:12,766
Agatha not knowing who Sharon was.
688
00:32:15,306 --> 00:32:17,770
My only gripe about this whole
689
00:32:17,818 --> 00:32:20,282
finale is at the end when they make the
690
00:32:20,314 --> 00:32:23,170
memorial and inscribe all the names. They put
691
00:32:23,218 --> 00:32:26,042
Sharon Hart. They should have put the gardener
692
00:32:26,114 --> 00:32:26,846
lady.
693
00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:31,286
Yeah, yeah.
694
00:32:32,066 --> 00:32:33,286
>> Will: The other green witch.
695
00:32:34,206 --> 00:32:37,159
>> Sarah : Yeah. And during them
696
00:32:37,207 --> 00:32:40,207
trying to find Tommy, you suddenly
697
00:32:40,271 --> 00:32:43,175
start to see, see and hear through
698
00:32:43,215 --> 00:32:46,167
Billy, like his hesitation, like, wait
699
00:32:46,191 --> 00:32:48,839
a second. Like there's this
700
00:32:48,887 --> 00:32:51,075
person. He's in trouble.
701
00:32:52,815 --> 00:32:54,475
He's in a bad place.
702
00:32:55,175 --> 00:32:58,167
But he has to die
703
00:32:58,311 --> 00:33:00,675
for my brother to be reborn.
704
00:33:01,255 --> 00:33:03,839
Like, how up is
705
00:33:03,887 --> 00:33:06,743
that? Yeah, that's something coming
706
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:07,795
at all. Either.
707
00:33:09,010 --> 00:33:11,666
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah, that,
708
00:33:11,738 --> 00:33:14,650
that, those, those. Those. Those questions
709
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:17,674
I think is another thing. Reason why this show just really like, just
710
00:33:17,722 --> 00:33:20,350
really resonated with me because it really,
711
00:33:20,770 --> 00:33:23,730
you know, in that moment where Billy is trying to
712
00:33:23,770 --> 00:33:26,578
figure out like, you know, does ask the question, you
713
00:33:26,594 --> 00:33:29,528
know, Michael and his voice. My brother can live. And
714
00:33:29,544 --> 00:33:32,336
then also, you know, he literally does have blood on his hands other
715
00:33:32,368 --> 00:33:35,105
than. Other than chin. But, And
716
00:33:35,185 --> 00:33:37,325
you are. You are right. I mean, I know
717
00:33:37,865 --> 00:33:40,785
it. Yes, Wanda did have her moments in
718
00:33:40,825 --> 00:33:43,793
Doctor Strange too. But I mean, Billy takes it to
719
00:33:43,809 --> 00:33:46,641
the next level as far as just, you know.
720
00:33:46,673 --> 00:33:49,617
Yes, they both. They both have the same thing in con, you know,
721
00:33:49,761 --> 00:33:52,485
with. But I guess, I guess,
722
00:33:53,265 --> 00:33:56,025
I guess in Wanda's case, you know, she conjured up
723
00:33:56,105 --> 00:33:58,561
Westview and the. In the hex, you know, out of
724
00:33:58,593 --> 00:34:01,553
grief, you
725
00:34:01,569 --> 00:34:02,445
know, and I guess.
726
00:34:03,945 --> 00:34:04,713
>> Sarah : Yep.
727
00:34:04,849 --> 00:34:07,601
>> Will: Yeah, Billy did too. Yeah. Billy
728
00:34:07,633 --> 00:34:10,118
also conjured. It was a grief, of
729
00:34:10,238 --> 00:34:13,193
lose. Of,
730
00:34:13,143 --> 00:34:14,787
Losing, you know, losing his brother.
731
00:34:15,767 --> 00:34:18,655
>> Sarah : Yeah. And arguably by the
732
00:34:18,671 --> 00:34:21,547
end of the next episode, we realized that
733
00:34:21,967 --> 00:34:24,831
the whole road, song
734
00:34:24,879 --> 00:34:27,247
and dance, was created out of
735
00:34:27,287 --> 00:34:30,047
grief over Agatha losing
736
00:34:30,207 --> 00:34:31,071
her son.
737
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:32,627
>> Will: Yep. Yeah.
738
00:34:33,247 --> 00:34:36,167
>> Sarah : Like. And then that just takes you back
739
00:34:36,207 --> 00:34:39,095
to anybody who's been watching both
740
00:34:39,271 --> 00:34:42,208
WandaVision and this show. The penultimate episode
741
00:34:42,294 --> 00:34:44,723
of WandaVision where it talks about grief.
742
00:34:44,855 --> 00:34:45,607
>> Will: Yep.
743
00:34:45,672 --> 00:34:48,501
>> Sarah : and love in the. One of the most poetic
744
00:34:48,549 --> 00:34:51,197
conversations ever on screen. So it's
745
00:34:51,237 --> 00:34:54,021
just like, thank God
746
00:34:54,189 --> 00:34:57,053
Jack Schaefer was the showrunner for both
747
00:34:57,085 --> 00:34:59,909
of these shows. And I know,
748
00:34:59,973 --> 00:35:02,933
I know. Vision Quest is quote unquote,
749
00:35:02,965 --> 00:35:05,885
on the horizon. Put her
750
00:35:05,941 --> 00:35:06,817
there, too.
751
00:35:07,197 --> 00:35:10,133
>> Will: Yeah. She should consult with Terry Matalis. I'm
752
00:35:10,165 --> 00:35:13,085
confident that Terry will get it right just seeing the work that
753
00:35:13,101 --> 00:35:15,933
he did with Star Trek Picard Season 3. So I'm not worried
754
00:35:15,965 --> 00:35:17,077
there. Yeah.
755
00:35:17,417 --> 00:35:20,169
>> Sarah : Okay, well, but let her have
756
00:35:20,193 --> 00:35:23,073
some consultation because, I don't know, so
757
00:35:23,105 --> 00:35:26,048
far, she's just a, two for two on this with
758
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,888
these characters. She knows them so well. Or
759
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,896
this. It's not even the characters. It's this world of
760
00:35:31,944 --> 00:35:32,892
Westview.
761
00:35:34,442 --> 00:35:37,074
and I just
762
00:35:37,178 --> 00:35:40,114
like, into episode nine, maiden
763
00:35:40,178 --> 00:35:42,574
Mother come. So
764
00:35:42,718 --> 00:35:45,042
we start off with
765
00:35:45,422 --> 00:35:48,214
the flashback to the literal birth
766
00:35:48,278 --> 00:35:50,942
scene. Another thing that. I don't know what's going
767
00:35:50,982 --> 00:35:53,646
on, but this is, like, between this
768
00:35:53,694 --> 00:35:56,462
show and House of Dragons. I've Scene so many
769
00:35:56,502 --> 00:35:58,966
bursts on TV over the last few
770
00:35:59,014 --> 00:35:59,602
years.
771
00:36:01,222 --> 00:36:03,806
>> Will: Now, granted, this one was a traumatic burst of that.
772
00:36:03,854 --> 00:36:06,819
>> Sarah : Yeah. yeah. This one could have been more
773
00:36:06,859 --> 00:36:09,707
dramatic, but it didn't. It felt more like it
774
00:36:09,723 --> 00:36:12,567
just like. And then she pushed and popped right out.
775
00:36:12,623 --> 00:36:15,099
And like, that's not. Well, whatever.
776
00:36:17,099 --> 00:36:19,279
but it's. It's interesting
777
00:36:19,819 --> 00:36:22,579
the more we talk about these two episodes and
778
00:36:22,659 --> 00:36:25,011
specifically Billy and
779
00:36:25,075 --> 00:36:27,315
Agatha and their
780
00:36:27,427 --> 00:36:29,719
arcs and their
781
00:36:30,179 --> 00:36:32,599
similar motivations. At the end,
782
00:36:35,979 --> 00:36:38,939
Agatha says to Nikki, as
783
00:36:38,979 --> 00:36:41,479
a little, little baby who can't talk back,
784
00:36:42,509 --> 00:36:45,485
I didn't cast a spell or an
785
00:36:45,517 --> 00:36:47,889
incantation. I made you.
786
00:36:48,389 --> 00:36:50,655
I made you. from scratch.
787
00:36:50,807 --> 00:36:51,539
>> Will: Yeah.
788
00:36:53,759 --> 00:36:55,939
>> Sarah : How much do you think that is true?
789
00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:00,559
>> Will: Yeah. You know, whenever she said that,
790
00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:03,471
I. I'm trying to think back to. Because I watched the show on
791
00:37:03,495 --> 00:37:05,499
Halloween, so it's been a few days.
792
00:37:06,919 --> 00:37:09,487
I know what I.
793
00:37:09,663 --> 00:37:12,207
That line stuck out to me, that he
794
00:37:12,223 --> 00:37:14,743
was. That basically, I thought he was a natural
795
00:37:14,791 --> 00:37:17,621
birth. and
796
00:37:17,765 --> 00:37:20,409
so which made
797
00:37:20,829 --> 00:37:22,649
I Think. Which makes
798
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:26,173
the. When
799
00:37:26,301 --> 00:37:29,253
Death comes to take him. I think that that just
800
00:37:29,301 --> 00:37:32,163
adds to the deeper for me,
801
00:37:32,291 --> 00:37:34,359
added a deeper level for like
802
00:37:35,299 --> 00:37:38,199
why he, you know, why Nikki was so special.
803
00:37:38,484 --> 00:37:41,412
and also it shuts up another contrast between her
804
00:37:41,428 --> 00:37:42,344
and Wanda.
805
00:37:44,419 --> 00:37:47,294
>> Will: was really what I think maybe at the real. When I think back,
806
00:37:47,334 --> 00:37:50,329
I think that was the thing that really. That stuck out to me.
807
00:37:50,279 --> 00:37:53,195
whenever she said that when I was watching episode,
808
00:37:54,255 --> 00:37:54,995
I.
809
00:37:55,745 --> 00:37:58,385
>> Sarah : The more I talk about these episodes
810
00:37:58,545 --> 00:38:01,345
and the more I think about everything
811
00:38:01,425 --> 00:38:04,281
we're shown. I'm a good
812
00:38:04,353 --> 00:38:06,793
60, 40 and I'm leaning more
813
00:38:06,849 --> 00:38:09,665
towards, no, she didn't
814
00:38:09,705 --> 00:38:12,521
cast a spell. She didn't do an incantation. But she
815
00:38:12,553 --> 00:38:15,473
did something because there is never
816
00:38:15,529 --> 00:38:17,165
a mention of the father.
817
00:38:18,515 --> 00:38:21,357
there's nothing. And then, and
818
00:38:21,381 --> 00:38:23,705
then I think about it like
819
00:38:24,165 --> 00:38:27,141
Death really wanted Billy
820
00:38:27,213 --> 00:38:28,985
to go because he's an abomination.
821
00:38:29,965 --> 00:38:32,965
We get no indication as
822
00:38:33,005 --> 00:38:35,917
to why, why Nikki had
823
00:38:35,941 --> 00:38:38,778
to die. like we saw,
824
00:38:38,874 --> 00:38:41,610
we quote unquote, saw the birth. He looked
825
00:38:41,650 --> 00:38:44,316
perfectly fine. It was like, what. What has
826
00:38:44,348 --> 00:38:47,284
happened? Or maybe, or maybe it wasn't going
827
00:38:47,292 --> 00:38:50,090
to be fine. And then Death was like,
828
00:38:50,130 --> 00:38:52,794
okay, I'll give you time. But
829
00:38:52,922 --> 00:38:55,866
still there was. It was just, it was weird.
830
00:38:55,938 --> 00:38:58,770
It. And maybe I'm just
831
00:38:58,810 --> 00:39:01,714
playing into what they want you to think, want you to
832
00:39:01,762 --> 00:39:04,602
question, as they clearly have set
833
00:39:04,626 --> 00:39:07,514
up for season two to go find Tommy at
834
00:39:07,522 --> 00:39:09,790
the end of this. But
835
00:39:10,290 --> 00:39:13,154
you're. I just.
836
00:39:13,242 --> 00:39:16,122
And the fact that if we go back to episode eight
837
00:39:16,186 --> 00:39:18,790
for her to get out of the last trial,
838
00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:22,196
she in a way didn't do a
839
00:39:22,228 --> 00:39:24,700
spell or incantation to an
840
00:39:24,740 --> 00:39:26,960
extent. Her own tears,
841
00:39:27,540 --> 00:39:30,436
like, managed to grow, like
842
00:39:30,508 --> 00:39:32,804
create this, this plant.
843
00:39:32,932 --> 00:39:33,895
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.
844
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:37,342
>> Sarah : so. And. And she was saying something
845
00:39:37,446 --> 00:39:40,262
about. I forget the exact lines that she
846
00:39:40,286 --> 00:39:43,102
was saying about how she was able to
847
00:39:43,166 --> 00:39:45,998
do that. and that's what ended
848
00:39:46,094 --> 00:39:48,974
that trial. And it was to help with like another thing
849
00:39:49,022 --> 00:39:52,022
that my mind keeps going back to is, is
850
00:39:52,046 --> 00:39:54,726
the locket has a piece of hair in it.
851
00:39:54,918 --> 00:39:57,450
And that is from Nikki.
852
00:39:58,150 --> 00:40:00,518
That hair is very well preserved.
853
00:40:00,694 --> 00:40:03,050
>> Will: Yeah, for sure.
854
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:05,690
>> Sarah : Yeah. And it's just
855
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:09,342
there. And I'm just gonna throw
856
00:40:09,366 --> 00:40:11,742
that. She's also clearly a lesbian,
857
00:40:11,926 --> 00:40:12,650
so.
858
00:40:12,990 --> 00:40:15,782
>> Will: I m mean, yeah. I mean the clearness of this show is
859
00:40:15,806 --> 00:40:17,180
like on, full display.
860
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,632
>> Sarah : Yeah. So I. I
861
00:40:20,696 --> 00:40:23,140
honestly just can't see her with a man.
862
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,528
>> Will: Yeah. So unless you just
863
00:40:26,544 --> 00:40:29,128
had a donor. I mean, you know that that could have happened.
864
00:40:29,184 --> 00:40:31,416
>> Sarah : Well, it was also the
865
00:40:31,448 --> 00:40:32,712
1750s, so.
866
00:40:32,776 --> 00:40:34,300
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
867
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,600
>> Sarah : She. It's not like she traveled to the future for modern
868
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,594
day mission. I need a donor.
869
00:40:40,752 --> 00:40:43,210
>> Will: No, no, no. She's just like. Yeah.
870
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:46,566
I mean. Or. I mean. Or maybe, you know, I mean,
871
00:40:46,638 --> 00:40:49,398
maybe it could have been just an immaculate conception. I
872
00:40:49,414 --> 00:40:51,462
mean, you.
873
00:40:51,526 --> 00:40:54,222
>> Sarah : And maybe that's why this is called the Maiden
874
00:40:54,326 --> 00:40:56,850
mother. M. But. But again,
875
00:40:57,550 --> 00:41:00,390
immaculate conception or not,
876
00:41:00,550 --> 00:41:03,438
does that still mean that the kid is an
877
00:41:03,454 --> 00:41:06,210
abomination? Like I.
878
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:09,718
I like to. I see on one hand how it's
879
00:41:09,774 --> 00:41:12,490
very interesting if it's not. And
880
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:15,414
she did what Wanda
881
00:41:15,462 --> 00:41:18,014
couldn't. But at the same
882
00:41:18,062 --> 00:41:20,942
time, I
883
00:41:20,966 --> 00:41:23,854
don't know if it's. I would. I'm starting to
884
00:41:23,902 --> 00:41:26,862
wonder if it's even better if it's not. And that
885
00:41:26,966 --> 00:41:29,850
both of them did this thing.
886
00:41:30,915 --> 00:41:33,575
because at the end of the day, all they really wanted
887
00:41:34,415 --> 00:41:37,079
was family. And they had so much grief.
888
00:41:37,247 --> 00:41:39,955
I don't know. It's just. It's fascinating.
889
00:41:40,255 --> 00:41:40,620
>> Will: It is.
890
00:41:42,595 --> 00:41:45,547
>> Sarah : The more we really think about it and
891
00:41:45,611 --> 00:41:48,203
like I said, I'm so glad there's a season two
892
00:41:48,379 --> 00:41:50,735
and I'm also glad that,
893
00:41:51,235 --> 00:41:54,067
you know, to go back to last episode or episode
894
00:41:54,131 --> 00:41:56,095
eight, the big fight.
895
00:41:56,835 --> 00:41:58,771
They also killed Agatha.
896
00:41:58,923 --> 00:42:01,739
>> Will: Yeah, they did. Yeah, she went. She. Yeah. Which I
897
00:42:01,747 --> 00:42:02,295
think.
898
00:42:05,165 --> 00:42:08,157
Yeah, yeah, I said, yeah, they killed. They did kill
899
00:42:08,181 --> 00:42:10,773
her. And I think, you know, they. And they. You.
900
00:42:10,869 --> 00:42:13,781
The. I think in the locket wasn't there also like the
901
00:42:13,813 --> 00:42:16,757
dandelion piece too? I mean, they go
902
00:42:16,781 --> 00:42:19,781
back to her because, you know, she went back to her original form which
903
00:42:19,813 --> 00:42:22,741
was, you know, she came of the earth and then she went, you know, after
904
00:42:22,773 --> 00:42:25,425
the kiss of death, she went back to the earth. So,
905
00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:28,842
>> Sarah : Yep. Yeah. And.
906
00:42:29,006 --> 00:42:31,962
And something. So episode
907
00:42:32,026 --> 00:42:34,150
nine is a lot about.
908
00:42:35,570 --> 00:42:37,470
A lot said in the past.
909
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,320
and we get a great montage
910
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,340
sequence of after Nikki dies
911
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,482
of Agatha, like being first
912
00:42:47,546 --> 00:42:50,522
encountered by a witch who wants her to
913
00:42:50,546 --> 00:42:53,154
take her to the road. And then we
914
00:42:53,202 --> 00:42:55,930
see the con play out to the
915
00:42:55,970 --> 00:42:58,946
song. And I kept. And a
916
00:42:58,978 --> 00:43:01,626
thought came to my mind earlier
917
00:43:01,698 --> 00:43:03,470
today that
918
00:43:04,330 --> 00:43:07,266
the very first episode when
919
00:43:07,298 --> 00:43:10,136
we're introduced to want, to Agatha
920
00:43:10,328 --> 00:43:13,184
in Westview, where she was
921
00:43:13,232 --> 00:43:15,384
left, it was her
922
00:43:15,432 --> 00:43:18,352
investigating a murder of a woman
923
00:43:18,456 --> 00:43:21,456
in the woods. And then you see
924
00:43:21,488 --> 00:43:24,472
the black fingers and it's like, oh, that was a
925
00:43:24,496 --> 00:43:26,700
witch. This is a murder. Which.
926
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:28,584
Bravo.
927
00:43:28,752 --> 00:43:31,123
>> Will: Yeah, totally. yep, yep.
928
00:43:31,179 --> 00:43:33,815
>> Sarah : So good. It's just.
929
00:43:34,235 --> 00:43:37,131
I mean, maybe. I don't know when,
930
00:43:37,203 --> 00:43:40,015
but maybe I'll rewatch this season. But
931
00:43:40,355 --> 00:43:42,995
the more I think about it, the more they. They
932
00:43:43,035 --> 00:43:45,931
had so much that they just teased out
933
00:43:46,003 --> 00:43:48,541
in the. One of the
934
00:43:48,573 --> 00:43:51,517
best paced seasons that
935
00:43:51,541 --> 00:43:52,781
I've Scene in a bit.
936
00:43:52,933 --> 00:43:55,861
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And you're
937
00:43:55,893 --> 00:43:58,629
right. And. And it was best paid, one of the best
938
00:43:58,677 --> 00:44:01,125
pace seasons. you know,
939
00:44:01,582 --> 00:44:04,494
one of the things I thought too, as I was watching this episode
940
00:44:04,542 --> 00:44:07,438
was like, you know, you put the origin story of Agatha at
941
00:44:07,454 --> 00:44:08,730
the end of the finale
942
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:13,294
and, And. And seeing how the
943
00:44:13,342 --> 00:44:15,990
song evolved with the con over
944
00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:18,580
time, and Nikki's
945
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:21,516
like, you know, questioning
946
00:44:21,588 --> 00:44:24,420
why, you know, why are we doing this?
947
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:27,160
And questioning, you know, and
948
00:44:27,460 --> 00:44:28,760
then ultimately.
949
00:44:30,670 --> 00:44:33,502
>> Will: Why, you know, her motivations again, like we were
950
00:44:33,526 --> 00:44:36,006
talking about before, is grief and also just
951
00:44:36,038 --> 00:44:38,782
avoidance of, you know,
952
00:44:38,966 --> 00:44:41,884
when she, you know, after Nikki does. She
953
00:44:42,022 --> 00:44:44,792
takes it, you know, each, you know, covenant that
954
00:44:44,816 --> 00:44:47,576
she has. And I'm so. And I see now why they
955
00:44:47,768 --> 00:44:50,760
change. They went back to Agatha all along instead of Agatha,
956
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,688
Coven of Chaos, as far as the title.
957
00:44:53,744 --> 00:44:56,744
Because as I was. I was like, okay. Because every
958
00:44:56,792 --> 00:44:58,940
coven that she had, that she
959
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,088
builds, she, you know, she dropped, takes the power. So she can
960
00:45:02,104 --> 00:45:04,384
just continue to avoid
961
00:45:04,512 --> 00:45:07,300
this. Avoid having to,
962
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:11,050
deal with Nikki's death and
963
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:15,598
even to the place where even after episode eight, she's,
964
00:45:15,654 --> 00:45:18,358
you know, you know, unlike Rio and
965
00:45:18,494 --> 00:45:21,110
Lila and, you know, other people that death
966
00:45:21,150 --> 00:45:23,334
has. Has taken, you know,
967
00:45:23,382 --> 00:45:26,142
Agatha still, figures out a
968
00:45:26,166 --> 00:45:27,290
way to, like,
969
00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:31,318
not die and, you know, becomes a ghost and now
970
00:45:31,334 --> 00:45:34,142
she's in purgatory. So, yeah, it was
971
00:45:34,206 --> 00:45:36,940
a perfect ending. you know, because generally
972
00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:39,892
ghosts. Yeah. So I just really thought that
973
00:45:39,916 --> 00:45:42,764
was just like, it made sense to me how this.
974
00:45:42,852 --> 00:45:45,108
How this. How this first season
975
00:45:45,204 --> 00:45:47,810
ended. because it's just.
976
00:45:48,910 --> 00:45:51,870
Yes, there was. There was growth for Agatha,
977
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:54,726
but at the end of the day, she still. There's still
978
00:45:54,758 --> 00:45:57,662
more for this character to. To do. Even though
979
00:45:57,686 --> 00:46:00,170
she made that sacrifice in episode eight.
980
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,776
>> Sarah : Yeah, because. Because
981
00:46:03,808 --> 00:46:06,656
there's also still more for Billy to
982
00:46:06,688 --> 00:46:08,780
do and
983
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,161
there. And I, What I was going
984
00:46:12,177 --> 00:46:15,105
to say when you brought up the fact that she was able to escape
985
00:46:15,169 --> 00:46:18,025
death again and come back as a witch and
986
00:46:18,049 --> 00:46:20,721
still hold on is. Well, we have to remember,
987
00:46:20,857 --> 00:46:23,665
like Death pointed out to her in
988
00:46:23,689 --> 00:46:26,625
episode eight very early on, she's had the most special
989
00:46:26,689 --> 00:46:29,209
treatment of anyone. So,
990
00:46:29,401 --> 00:46:32,337
like, their relationship has a lot
991
00:46:32,385 --> 00:46:35,385
to do with how.
992
00:46:35,529 --> 00:46:38,508
How Agatha is able to avoid death.
993
00:46:39,033 --> 00:46:42,017
and that's something that they've arguably have held
994
00:46:42,065 --> 00:46:44,865
the back the most on is us, really, because we
995
00:46:44,889 --> 00:46:47,785
never got to see them meet. We didn't get a meet cute. We got
996
00:46:47,809 --> 00:46:49,693
a meet end. Yeah,
997
00:46:50,553 --> 00:46:53,157
we. We got more, but
998
00:46:53,305 --> 00:46:55,953
there's still something there. So it's.
999
00:46:56,373 --> 00:46:59,305
It's they,
1000
00:46:59,369 --> 00:47:00,893
they have definitely
1001
00:47:02,113 --> 00:47:03,253
allowed,
1002
00:47:06,043 --> 00:47:08,823
a continuation while at the same time,
1003
00:47:09,063 --> 00:47:11,527
the, the start and end of a
1004
00:47:11,575 --> 00:47:14,367
chapter that. Where it's like.
1005
00:47:14,415 --> 00:47:17,393
And now we're going to go on to the next chapter. because
1006
00:47:17,433 --> 00:47:19,273
it really was Billy all along.
1007
00:47:19,433 --> 00:47:21,761
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure.
1008
00:47:21,937 --> 00:47:22,653
Yeah.
1009
00:47:23,113 --> 00:47:26,049
>> Sarah : Oh, yeah. I was also gonna say it should have never
1010
00:47:26,121 --> 00:47:29,033
been a covenant of chaos. I like Agatha
1011
00:47:29,073 --> 00:47:31,321
all along because they got the double A's.
1012
00:47:31,457 --> 00:47:34,409
But, but come on, why couldn't it have been
1013
00:47:34,481 --> 00:47:36,769
Agatha? Covenant, covenless
1014
00:47:36,921 --> 00:47:37,613
witch.
1015
00:47:39,873 --> 00:47:42,689
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah,
1016
00:47:42,801 --> 00:47:45,761
yeah. Well, then I would have told us all, like, you know, that would have. I mean,
1017
00:47:45,777 --> 00:47:48,393
it told us so many other things if we had just been paying attention.
1018
00:47:48,473 --> 00:47:50,463
But great.
1019
00:47:50,803 --> 00:47:53,779
>> Sarah : How do you know the number of things they told us
1020
00:47:53,811 --> 00:47:56,587
that we, we are like. Are we the only ones who
1021
00:47:56,715 --> 00:47:59,223
recognize that but didn't really take it in?
1022
00:48:01,563 --> 00:48:04,467
>> Will: Yeah, but like we said last week with this show, I mean, you
1023
00:48:04,475 --> 00:48:07,475
know, it wasn't a show, like what I think you put it best. It's like, it wasn't
1024
00:48:07,499 --> 00:48:09,863
a show that I knew I needed, but I'm glad I got it.
1025
00:48:10,523 --> 00:48:13,523
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I, I'm. I am
1026
00:48:13,563 --> 00:48:16,355
glad. And it. And it. I'm glad that it also
1027
00:48:16,419 --> 00:48:19,083
aired in
1028
00:48:19,203 --> 00:48:21,019
simultaneously with the Penguin.
1029
00:48:21,131 --> 00:48:21,635
>> Will: Yeah.
1030
00:48:21,739 --> 00:48:24,691
>> Sarah : Because for a lot of the things that I just went on
1031
00:48:24,747 --> 00:48:27,120
and on about Agatha, and that
1032
00:48:27,184 --> 00:48:30,048
line, Penguin does the
1033
00:48:30,088 --> 00:48:32,952
same thing in a much, arguably R
1034
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,904
rated way, but a much
1035
00:48:35,936 --> 00:48:38,904
more aggressive way, a darker way. But it
1036
00:48:38,936 --> 00:48:41,708
is still, these two characters
1037
00:48:41,748 --> 00:48:44,724
are very similar, in that extent. And the
1038
00:48:44,756 --> 00:48:47,648
premises of the show are very similar.
1039
00:48:48,113 --> 00:48:50,841
and that leads us into the Penguin episode
1040
00:48:50,897 --> 00:48:53,785
seven, Top Hat. And
1041
00:48:53,889 --> 00:48:56,793
we, Like, I love it.
1042
00:48:57,933 --> 00:49:00,621
Like, I think early on I said I don't want
1043
00:49:00,677 --> 00:49:03,589
flashbacks, but they're choosing the
1044
00:49:03,621 --> 00:49:06,349
right flashbacks and we're not hanging out with them too
1045
00:49:06,381 --> 00:49:09,033
long. Because while I'm
1046
00:49:09,073 --> 00:49:11,561
sitting here trying to figure out the father.
1047
00:49:11,697 --> 00:49:14,649
And we will talk about my theory game because
1048
00:49:14,681 --> 00:49:17,601
I have a new one. I still think it's Rex. I
1049
00:49:17,617 --> 00:49:20,385
still think it's Rex. The child
1050
00:49:20,489 --> 00:49:22,373
actor who plays the Penguin
1051
00:49:22,913 --> 00:49:25,889
looks very much like the actor who
1052
00:49:25,921 --> 00:49:28,733
we saw play Rex and his brothers. Did not.
1053
00:49:31,913 --> 00:49:33,945
I thought that was pretty interesting.
1054
00:49:34,129 --> 00:49:36,921
Yeah. but
1055
00:49:37,057 --> 00:49:39,613
it's not just that they had this flashback
1056
00:49:39,913 --> 00:49:42,881
and we see the family, the nuclear unit
1057
00:49:42,937 --> 00:49:45,737
together, minus the dad, but it's
1058
00:49:45,785 --> 00:49:48,657
also that I had never thought.
1059
00:49:48,745 --> 00:49:51,697
Oh, or question. Like, I didn't really
1060
00:49:51,745 --> 00:49:54,345
think too long and hard about the question of how
1061
00:49:54,369 --> 00:49:57,009
did. How did Oz's brothers actually
1062
00:49:57,081 --> 00:49:57,713
die?
1063
00:49:57,873 --> 00:50:00,641
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, we. I know
1064
00:50:00,657 --> 00:50:03,295
We. We theorized that it has something to do with
1065
00:50:03,319 --> 00:50:06,143
Rex. but, you know. Or we, you
1066
00:50:06,143 --> 00:50:08,929
know, but, we never really, like, went too, too
1067
00:50:08,961 --> 00:50:10,013
deep into that.
1068
00:50:10,873 --> 00:50:13,769
>> Sarah : No, no. And. And, and
1069
00:50:13,801 --> 00:50:15,893
it was a question that
1070
00:50:17,193 --> 00:50:20,121
we got answered. Didn't
1071
00:50:20,137 --> 00:50:21,825
you know we had that question.
1072
00:50:22,009 --> 00:50:23,553
>> Will: Oh, yeah. Did we get it answered?
1073
00:50:23,593 --> 00:50:26,521
>> Sarah : Yeah, we. Yeah, it got. It got
1074
00:50:26,577 --> 00:50:29,135
answered because Oz being
1075
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:31,983
Oz, how old do you think he was?
1076
00:50:32,103 --> 00:50:33,986
Like, are we talking 10?
1077
00:50:34,095 --> 00:50:36,716
>> Will: Yeah, I guess. Older, maybe.
1078
00:50:36,825 --> 00:50:39,743
Maybe 11. Yeah, he's like the middle brother because,
1079
00:50:39,783 --> 00:50:42,239
I mean, Jack's the oldest, clearly, and then Benny was the
1080
00:50:42,271 --> 00:50:45,231
baby, so. Yeah, probably 11, 12 years old, I
1081
00:50:45,247 --> 00:50:46,003
would think.
1082
00:50:46,583 --> 00:50:49,351
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And. And,
1083
00:50:49,407 --> 00:50:52,311
and they go off because Mom's got work to do and
1084
00:50:52,327 --> 00:50:54,865
the boys can't be home, and
1085
00:50:55,049 --> 00:50:57,809
they. And the mom is clearly working for Rex.
1086
00:50:57,961 --> 00:50:58,693
>> Will: Yeah.
1087
00:50:59,153 --> 00:51:02,097
>> Sarah : And when I say working, I mean doing the books. And when I
1088
00:51:02,105 --> 00:51:04,729
say doing the books. Literally doing the books. Okay.
1089
00:51:04,801 --> 00:51:07,569
No, we're not talking about Tell Me Lies or
1090
00:51:07,601 --> 00:51:10,137
Rivals right now. Okay. Even though I do have
1091
00:51:10,185 --> 00:51:12,853
suspicions about. Yeah. Anyways,
1092
00:51:13,663 --> 00:51:15,683
and you.
1093
00:51:17,103 --> 00:51:19,527
You see, moments of the
1094
00:51:19,575 --> 00:51:22,287
Clear. Oz needs to be an only
1095
00:51:22,335 --> 00:51:22,927
child.
1096
00:51:23,095 --> 00:51:23,791
>> Will: Yep.
1097
00:51:23,927 --> 00:51:26,779
>> Sarah : Yep. very
1098
00:51:26,811 --> 00:51:27,383
clear.
1099
00:51:29,643 --> 00:51:32,643
Great. Great casting for the kids.
1100
00:51:32,763 --> 00:51:33,943
Great casting.
1101
00:51:35,243 --> 00:51:38,059
And, and then we
1102
00:51:38,251 --> 00:51:41,075
go back into the tunnels and it's raining
1103
00:51:41,139 --> 00:51:43,603
and, you know, you know what's
1104
00:51:43,723 --> 00:51:46,673
happening. and then,
1105
00:51:47,213 --> 00:51:50,125
I don't know why the oldest thought this was
1106
00:51:50,149 --> 00:51:52,893
a great idea to hide in a location that would
1107
00:51:52,933 --> 00:51:55,869
be even more difficult for Oz to get
1108
00:51:55,901 --> 00:51:58,153
to because of his leg.
1109
00:51:58,738 --> 00:52:00,843
and so Oz being Oz,
1110
00:52:01,583 --> 00:52:04,403
gets upset at that and decides, well,
1111
00:52:04,703 --> 00:52:06,883
if you want to do that, well, then
1112
00:52:07,383 --> 00:52:10,327
I'm going to lock you in there and good luck. In and out, and
1113
00:52:10,375 --> 00:52:11,505
the boys drown.
1114
00:52:11,679 --> 00:52:12,245
>> Will: Yeah.
1115
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:13,997
>> Sarah : Horrible, horrible, horrible.
1116
00:52:14,085 --> 00:52:17,069
>> Will: Yeah. I mean, so a couple
1117
00:52:17,141 --> 00:52:19,433
things before I ask you this question,
1118
00:52:20,403 --> 00:52:22,899
about this. You know, you made a good point about
1119
00:52:22,931 --> 00:52:24,543
the. His
1120
00:52:25,283 --> 00:52:28,278
infirmity. and, and also, you know, because.
1121
00:52:28,778 --> 00:52:31,562
But in the mom. I just love the way they sort of set that
1122
00:52:31,610 --> 00:52:34,065
scene up, with the boys, the brothers
1123
00:52:34,129 --> 00:52:36,821
dynamic, because, you know, she was like,
1124
00:52:36,917 --> 00:52:39,605
encouraging us to get up, go outside and play
1125
00:52:39,709 --> 00:52:42,653
while she was trying to do the books. And then whenever they come
1126
00:52:42,693 --> 00:52:45,189
in, they really, you know,
1127
00:52:45,261 --> 00:52:48,127
whenever, you know, she gets up, they play the zombie games and stuff, and poor
1128
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:50,895
Oz is sitting over there. So again, just sets up all those things
1129
00:52:50,943 --> 00:52:53,119
and it is, again,
1130
00:52:53,215 --> 00:52:56,047
bookends the beginning of
1131
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,885
the series and things that we've Scene throughout. So, you
1132
00:52:58,893 --> 00:53:01,359
know, for me, it was sort of like, you know, with.
1133
00:53:01,415 --> 00:53:04,167
With this episode. And also just
1134
00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:07,127
thinking back over to series and gets to my Question for you.
1135
00:53:07,159 --> 00:53:10,092
Is, is it nature or nurture as far
1136
00:53:10,124 --> 00:53:12,540
as, like, with these
1137
00:53:12,588 --> 00:53:14,886
characters? with Oz,
1138
00:53:14,966 --> 00:53:17,306
Sophia, Vic, but also
1139
00:53:17,966 --> 00:53:20,830
whenever, you know, we know Oz has impulse control issues
1140
00:53:20,878 --> 00:53:23,758
and we saw that again, which I think that's
1141
00:53:23,782 --> 00:53:25,996
just his nature. But,
1142
00:53:27,486 --> 00:53:30,334
do you think he intended to kill his brothers? Or do you think it
1143
00:53:30,350 --> 00:53:32,066
was like one of those things? Like
1144
00:53:33,446 --> 00:53:36,158
he just, like, was just pissed off, you know, fuck him. And
1145
00:53:36,182 --> 00:53:38,934
then, and then, you know, once the rain started
1146
00:53:38,990 --> 00:53:41,814
happening and stuff, and he started watching Top Hat, you
1147
00:53:41,830 --> 00:53:44,786
know, and because of the relationship that he does have with his mother,
1148
00:53:45,246 --> 00:53:47,346
he was sort of like, you know what?
1149
00:53:48,846 --> 00:53:51,810
Really fuck him. Did he think he
1150
00:53:51,858 --> 00:53:54,618
intended to kill him? Or you think it was an accident? Or do you think he came to
1151
00:53:54,642 --> 00:53:57,330
it, you know, while they were sitting there watching Top
1152
00:53:57,378 --> 00:53:58,006
Hat?
1153
00:54:00,506 --> 00:54:02,495
>> Sarah : Oh, the last one for sure.
1154
00:54:02,543 --> 00:54:05,135
>> Will: Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, I
1155
00:54:05,143 --> 00:54:05,647
thought.
1156
00:54:05,799 --> 00:54:08,717
>> Sarah : I think the. The whole looking, back and
1157
00:54:08,749 --> 00:54:11,690
forth at the window kind of
1158
00:54:11,706 --> 00:54:14,634
made it clear, like he was definitely going his mind,
1159
00:54:14,698 --> 00:54:17,664
like, do I say something? Do I not? Do
1160
00:54:17,688 --> 00:54:20,496
I say something? Do I not? But it then just kept going on
1161
00:54:20,544 --> 00:54:22,252
and on and on and on.
1162
00:54:23,742 --> 00:54:26,006
and then I think you also asked nature,
1163
00:54:26,094 --> 00:54:29,022
nurture. Well, what's the
1164
00:54:29,062 --> 00:54:31,552
difference? Like, or, what's like,
1165
00:54:32,732 --> 00:54:35,687
are, we. I guess it's
1166
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,383
hard for me, like, yeah, he came out of the womb that
1167
00:54:38,407 --> 00:54:41,095
way. What does that mean?
1168
00:54:41,263 --> 00:54:44,101
We're all heavily influenced by excellence, experience.
1169
00:54:44,441 --> 00:54:44,921
>> Will: Yeah.
1170
00:54:45,001 --> 00:54:47,901
>> Sarah : And our parents and our family members,
1171
00:54:48,241 --> 00:54:51,129
like, and. And also what we don't see in
1172
00:54:51,145 --> 00:54:53,821
this cold open or haven't really Scene
1173
00:54:54,361 --> 00:54:55,101
is
1174
00:54:57,881 --> 00:55:00,625
I, I will say
1175
00:55:00,753 --> 00:55:02,701
we have yet to be shown
1176
00:55:03,641 --> 00:55:06,086
the, the,
1177
00:55:06,861 --> 00:55:09,025
the influential moment
1178
00:55:09,213 --> 00:55:12,049
where Oz would look
1179
00:55:12,105 --> 00:55:14,513
as an 11 year old, look at
1180
00:55:14,697 --> 00:55:17,193
Rex and see, oh, he's a
1181
00:55:17,217 --> 00:55:20,089
gangster. I understand
1182
00:55:20,185 --> 00:55:22,609
this. We don't know. We haven't been shown
1183
00:55:22,665 --> 00:55:25,577
that, so
1184
00:55:25,609 --> 00:55:28,537
it's hard to say. And I
1185
00:55:28,569 --> 00:55:31,377
understand why you raised the question, because it gets into
1186
00:55:31,449 --> 00:55:34,417
what later happens between Sophia and
1187
00:55:34,449 --> 00:55:37,341
Francis to an extent. And,
1188
00:55:37,676 --> 00:55:40,615
I think part of it is probably
1189
00:55:40,743 --> 00:55:43,407
her influence. But. But we
1190
00:55:43,439 --> 00:55:44,891
also see that
1191
00:55:46,951 --> 00:55:49,831
we don't know when the, the disease
1192
00:55:49,951 --> 00:55:52,371
started with Frances. Right.
1193
00:55:52,831 --> 00:55:55,415
>> Will: No, no. I mean, she. She was just broken
1194
00:55:55,503 --> 00:55:58,351
after losing her boys and it was that.
1195
00:55:58,431 --> 00:56:01,333
>> Sarah : Exactly. So, so did, in
1196
00:56:01,357 --> 00:56:03,813
a way, did that trauma
1197
00:56:03,997 --> 00:56:06,765
trigger this illness? And is that
1198
00:56:06,813 --> 00:56:07,881
also why.
1199
00:56:10,221 --> 00:56:10,336
>> Will: Oz,
1200
00:56:11,046 --> 00:56:13,342
>> Sarah : in the previous episode, was
1201
00:56:13,414 --> 00:56:16,318
so down about being unable to
1202
00:56:16,342 --> 00:56:19,266
help her? Because arguably he
1203
00:56:20,086 --> 00:56:22,478
created her in a way.
1204
00:56:22,662 --> 00:56:25,630
>> Will: Yeah. So, yeah, I love. Yeah. And that's one of
1205
00:56:25,638 --> 00:56:28,558
the things of the series is, you know, they it's like chicken
1206
00:56:28,582 --> 00:56:31,456
or the egg with a lot of these situations
1207
00:56:31,496 --> 00:56:34,440
as far as these characters. But I mean, the through
1208
00:56:34,488 --> 00:56:37,448
line is because Oz does something,
1209
00:56:37,552 --> 00:56:39,716
it's the catalyst for something else.
1210
00:56:40,321 --> 00:56:43,080
whether it's his brothers, whether it's his breaking, you
1211
00:56:43,088 --> 00:56:45,984
know, breaking his mother's spirit. I do like the point.
1212
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,984
I do like that the fact that you did raise a belt. We did. We
1213
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,856
haven't yet. You know, we've. We've Scene things through
1214
00:56:51,896 --> 00:56:54,776
us eyes. And even as far as with
1215
00:56:54,816 --> 00:56:57,458
Rex, I mean, we saw a little bit of it. As far
1216
00:56:57,482 --> 00:56:59,994
as Aussies, Rex is just this
1217
00:57:00,050 --> 00:57:02,970
benevolent figure that, you know, we've heard so much
1218
00:57:03,018 --> 00:57:05,830
about, in the sense that, you
1219
00:57:05,838 --> 00:57:08,146
know, because, you know, Jack saw. Saw
1220
00:57:09,206 --> 00:57:12,181
Rex for who he was. Gangster Oz, ah,
1221
00:57:12,302 --> 00:57:15,302
just happened to still see the guy who like gave Jack the
1222
00:57:15,334 --> 00:57:18,286
$50, has this big. This shiny,
1223
00:57:18,366 --> 00:57:21,334
this shiny car, you know. So Oz still sees him
1224
00:57:21,350 --> 00:57:22,386
as a hero.
1225
00:57:23,806 --> 00:57:26,478
>> Sarah : but he says he's a gangster.
1226
00:57:26,582 --> 00:57:29,382
Like, I know where he got that money from. He's a gangster. So
1227
00:57:29,494 --> 00:57:31,786
he, he says it in a way that doesn't.
1228
00:57:32,326 --> 00:57:33,822
>> Will: But he doesn't know what it means.
1229
00:57:33,894 --> 00:57:36,702
>> Sarah : Yeah, well, no, but what.
1230
00:57:36,734 --> 00:57:39,222
I actually was going to say the opposite. He knows what it
1231
00:57:39,254 --> 00:57:42,174
means. Like it goes back to what what
1232
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:44,638
Francis told. Tells Sophia in the
1233
00:57:44,662 --> 00:57:47,632
episode and what Oz,
1234
00:57:47,774 --> 00:57:50,628
or, or maybe Francis
1235
00:57:50,692 --> 00:57:53,572
even said this to Vic at one point. I forget. But I know I've
1236
00:57:53,604 --> 00:57:56,420
heard a similar conversation before is
1237
00:57:56,468 --> 00:57:59,016
like, you don't understand.
1238
00:57:59,876 --> 00:58:01,972
He got to this point
1239
00:58:02,164 --> 00:58:04,876
because it's not that he was
1240
00:58:04,916 --> 00:58:07,348
born into it, it's not that
1241
00:58:07,452 --> 00:58:10,136
he, he. But he came
1242
00:58:10,176 --> 00:58:13,152
about it in a way where he was able to learn,
1243
00:58:13,224 --> 00:58:15,156
absorb and take advantage.
1244
00:58:15,616 --> 00:58:18,476
Like, so he knows the game
1245
00:58:18,936 --> 00:58:21,696
far better. So. And I. From that remark
1246
00:58:21,776 --> 00:58:24,646
about, Rex at the beginning of being
1247
00:58:24,686 --> 00:58:27,582
a gangster, there was like. And
1248
00:58:27,614 --> 00:58:30,326
that's who I want to be. So, so yeah, there
1249
00:58:30,486 --> 00:58:33,466
you glorify him. But it's, it's just.
1250
00:58:34,926 --> 00:58:37,374
I just view it as like, there's a
1251
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:39,814
familiarity there where
1252
00:58:39,910 --> 00:58:42,718
I like, he doesn't look up to his
1253
00:58:42,742 --> 00:58:45,026
older brother. No, he looks up to Rex.
1254
00:58:45,511 --> 00:58:47,411
and it's got.
1255
00:58:48,351 --> 00:58:51,303
It's hard for me to pin all of that on
1256
00:58:51,367 --> 00:58:54,247
Francis when there's the
1257
00:58:54,279 --> 00:58:56,971
whole mystery of the father. Like,
1258
00:58:57,271 --> 00:59:00,247
why did the father leave? Is it Rex? Who is
1259
00:59:00,279 --> 00:59:03,091
the father if it's not Rex?
1260
00:59:03,911 --> 00:59:06,791
>> Will: I don't think the father's Rex. The more
1261
00:59:06,831 --> 00:59:09,639
we talk about it, I don't think it is. I mean, I think they make it very
1262
00:59:09,695 --> 00:59:12,573
clear that the father, he's an Absent. You know,
1263
00:59:12,597 --> 00:59:14,161
he was clearly an absent father
1264
00:59:14,461 --> 00:59:17,325
beforehand, you know, and he was just,
1265
00:59:17,373 --> 00:59:20,357
you know, because I think there were some. I think Francis may have made some
1266
00:59:20,429 --> 00:59:23,429
mentions about, you know, he had all these dreams and he talked big, but, you
1267
00:59:23,445 --> 00:59:26,351
know, had no action, no, you know, no ambition whatever.
1268
00:59:26,771 --> 00:59:29,271
And, and so, you know,
1269
00:59:29,571 --> 00:59:30,751
at this point,
1270
00:59:32,571 --> 00:59:35,435
the father figure was in, you know,
1271
00:59:35,523 --> 00:59:38,507
for, for the family was. At least for Oz was.
1272
00:59:38,619 --> 00:59:41,207
Was Rex. I mean, Jackson. No, I don't think so
1273
00:59:41,239 --> 00:59:41,811
much.
1274
00:59:44,341 --> 00:59:46,973
>> Sarah : That just makes me question why. Why did
1275
00:59:46,997 --> 00:59:49,605
that affect Oz in that
1276
00:59:49,653 --> 00:59:52,365
way and not the other two,
1277
00:59:52,533 --> 00:59:55,069
like, especially the older one,
1278
00:59:55,205 --> 00:59:58,085
because they all don't have the dad around and,
1279
00:59:58,173 --> 01:00:00,653
and we never find out his own
1280
01:00:00,717 --> 01:00:03,221
disability. But I don't know.
1281
01:00:03,341 --> 01:00:06,221
So, yeah,
1282
01:00:07,401 --> 01:00:10,313
this is me not knowing where to go to next because
1283
01:00:10,337 --> 01:00:11,781
I feel like we've drowned.
1284
01:00:13,041 --> 01:00:15,801
>> Will: No, no, no, no. I mean, no, I think that, I mean, that cold
1285
01:00:15,841 --> 01:00:18,697
open just has so many, so many levels to it. That
1286
01:00:18,729 --> 01:00:21,537
does color, I think, you know, it does color
1287
01:00:21,649 --> 01:00:24,489
this, this character. But also, like, as I mentioned before, it
1288
01:00:24,505 --> 01:00:27,353
gets into this. I think it, you know, really touches on
1289
01:00:27,377 --> 01:00:30,218
the whole thematic, through
1290
01:00:30,242 --> 01:00:32,826
our, through line of this whole series, because we do
1291
01:00:32,866 --> 01:00:35,486
turn, you know, it does set up
1292
01:00:36,186 --> 01:00:38,322
the great scene between
1293
01:00:38,394 --> 01:00:40,766
Sophia and Francis,
1294
01:00:42,356 --> 01:00:45,332
where, you know, where they're,
1295
01:00:45,364 --> 01:00:47,972
they're having their back and forth and, you know, and
1296
01:00:48,004 --> 01:00:50,916
Francis gets in the good line. It's like, you know, you know,
1297
01:00:50,956 --> 01:00:53,732
paraphrasing. But, you know, you know, you could change your name, but
1298
01:00:53,764 --> 01:00:56,684
you're still, you know, you're still a falcon. You know, you
1299
01:00:56,700 --> 01:00:57,396
still who you are.
1300
01:00:57,436 --> 01:00:58,056
>> Sarah : Yeah.
1301
01:00:58,356 --> 01:01:00,808
>> Will: And, you know that, that colors
1302
01:01:00,992 --> 01:01:03,848
Sophia's later interactions with Gia
1303
01:01:03,912 --> 01:01:06,816
whenever they found out that she was possibly
1304
01:01:06,856 --> 01:01:09,316
going to talk to all the police about what really happened.
1305
01:01:10,336 --> 01:01:13,248
>> Sarah : Well, yeah, she went to have a
1306
01:01:13,272 --> 01:01:16,208
similar conversation that her dad would do. So
1307
01:01:16,232 --> 01:01:18,832
it's like, now that that seed has been
1308
01:01:18,864 --> 01:01:21,436
planted of doubt in her head,
1309
01:01:22,016 --> 01:01:24,984
she then does an action that is like, oh,
1310
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:27,942
Francesca was right. Like, and
1311
01:01:27,974 --> 01:01:30,934
my. And she's not. I mean, arguably, in
1312
01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:33,758
my opinion, at the end of the episode, she didn't even change the
1313
01:01:33,782 --> 01:01:35,771
game. Ah,
1314
01:01:36,646 --> 01:01:39,006
I knew that was a bomb. Yeah, I did, too.
1315
01:01:39,086 --> 01:01:40,830
>> Will: Yeah, I did, too. That was, that was my one.
1316
01:01:40,878 --> 01:01:43,166
>> Sarah : Like, no, but
1317
01:01:43,286 --> 01:01:44,046
whatever.
1318
01:01:44,206 --> 01:01:47,174
>> Will: Yeah, I knew it was my. I was like this, this
1319
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:50,126
took that, that, that whole thing with the, with the
1320
01:01:50,166 --> 01:01:52,914
ending there. It bothered me. I had. I, I.
1321
01:01:53,070 --> 01:01:55,786
That was like. For me, that was like. That's probably one of the few
1322
01:01:55,826 --> 01:01:58,246
missteps that this series has taken.
1323
01:01:59,146 --> 01:02:01,610
>> Sarah : It's just, you knew it wasn't. You knew
1324
01:02:01,658 --> 01:02:04,594
it. The scene went on so freaking
1325
01:02:04,690 --> 01:02:07,546
long, and it just.
1326
01:02:07,626 --> 01:02:10,626
It wouldn't make any sense for. For it
1327
01:02:10,666 --> 01:02:13,306
to have been Sophia. Despite the
1328
01:02:13,346 --> 01:02:16,242
doubt, you just. There's no way. You're like, we got
1329
01:02:16,274 --> 01:02:18,834
another episode to go. So. No, yeah,
1330
01:02:18,930 --> 01:02:21,600
yeah. but what. What I did with
1331
01:02:21,678 --> 01:02:24,218
Find hilarious, and love
1332
01:02:24,322 --> 01:02:26,206
was the
1333
01:02:26,986 --> 01:02:29,527
Sal and Oz. because for most of this
1334
01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:31,811
episode, Oz spends it with Sal
1335
01:02:32,391 --> 01:02:35,359
and who is. Wants
1336
01:02:35,415 --> 01:02:37,615
to kill him with his own two
1337
01:02:37,663 --> 01:02:40,471
hands, continues to not be able to
1338
01:02:40,551 --> 01:02:43,287
because of this deal that him and
1339
01:02:43,319 --> 01:02:46,159
Sophia will do that together. Like, he's on a
1340
01:02:46,175 --> 01:02:48,687
leash and he's surrounded by what seems to be
1341
01:02:48,719 --> 01:02:51,247
Sophia's men. Not his own men, but Sophia's
1342
01:02:51,279 --> 01:02:53,443
men. So he
1343
01:02:53,547 --> 01:02:56,472
can't. but. And Oz figures that out
1344
01:02:56,544 --> 01:02:59,528
and then. And then is like, okay, well,
1345
01:02:59,632 --> 01:03:01,720
let me. Let me use that to my
1346
01:03:01,768 --> 01:03:04,662
advantage. and they
1347
01:03:04,694 --> 01:03:07,238
ultimately start to get into fistfight. And
1348
01:03:07,262 --> 01:03:10,198
then you think like, wow, Oz is not gonna make.
1349
01:03:10,262 --> 01:03:13,166
And then. Nope, nope, nope. Because Sal
1350
01:03:13,246 --> 01:03:14,706
has a heart attack.
1351
01:03:16,086 --> 01:03:16,766
>> Will: Yep.
1352
01:03:16,886 --> 01:03:19,734
>> Sarah : I. I started laughing. And
1353
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:22,718
then the moment where Oz is like, no, no,
1354
01:03:22,822 --> 01:03:23,826
you can't.
1355
01:03:26,846 --> 01:03:29,686
You know, that is
1356
01:03:29,726 --> 01:03:31,506
like a classic.
1357
01:03:32,126 --> 01:03:35,118
Okay, We. We clearly have to
1358
01:03:35,142 --> 01:03:36,826
have a way out of the situation,
1359
01:03:37,831 --> 01:03:40,672
that's believable in. In a weird way. It's totally
1360
01:03:40,704 --> 01:03:42,036
believable. It makes all.
1361
01:03:42,336 --> 01:03:45,288
>> Will: Yeah. I mean, they're too old. They're two old guys, like, going at
1362
01:03:45,312 --> 01:03:48,204
it. You know, they set it up early. You know, they set it
1363
01:03:48,220 --> 01:03:51,052
up with our earlier, you know, scenes
1364
01:03:51,084 --> 01:03:53,900
with Sal, you know, having to take the heart, you know, taking the
1365
01:03:53,908 --> 01:03:56,628
blood potion, meds or whatever. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
1366
01:03:56,772 --> 01:03:57,332
yeah.
1367
01:03:57,444 --> 01:04:00,296
>> Sarah : And, and, but. But it also.
1368
01:04:01,796 --> 01:04:04,556
I. I think it was also not just done
1369
01:04:04,676 --> 01:04:07,596
for. For. For there
1370
01:04:07,636 --> 01:04:09,461
to be a penultimate confrontation,
1371
01:04:11,636 --> 01:04:14,326
that. That Oz gets his
1372
01:04:14,366 --> 01:04:16,386
way out of it also.
1373
01:04:17,206 --> 01:04:19,826
Because, yes, he won,
1374
01:04:20,366 --> 01:04:23,166
but it wasn't the way he wanted to. Like,
1375
01:04:23,206 --> 01:04:25,822
he beat out, but it wasn't the
1376
01:04:25,854 --> 01:04:28,350
way. He may have the ring now,
1377
01:04:28,438 --> 01:04:31,422
but it's still not. And so
1378
01:04:31,614 --> 01:04:34,422
with. With Oz and his
1379
01:04:34,494 --> 01:04:36,306
whole manifesto
1380
01:04:37,686 --> 01:04:40,181
I. An ego, it,
1381
01:04:40,896 --> 01:04:43,792
it does a lot more for his character to
1382
01:04:43,824 --> 01:04:46,768
be like, yeah, yeah, he's going to come out on top,
1383
01:04:46,832 --> 01:04:49,676
but it's never going to be exactly
1384
01:04:50,136 --> 01:04:53,116
on his circumstances because at the end of the day,
1385
01:04:53,856 --> 01:04:56,356
he's never going to be
1386
01:04:57,936 --> 01:05:00,728
that person who he
1387
01:05:00,752 --> 01:05:03,256
may think he is, he may want to
1388
01:05:03,296 --> 01:05:06,248
be, but it's never going to be him because he's always going to be the
1389
01:05:06,272 --> 01:05:08,540
kid from the east side with the bum leg.
1390
01:05:08,688 --> 01:05:09,172
>> Will: Yep.
1391
01:05:09,244 --> 01:05:12,084
>> Sarah : Like, he can't fix his leg. He can't fix his mom.
1392
01:05:12,180 --> 01:05:13,576
He killed his brothers.
1393
01:05:13,956 --> 01:05:14,428
>> Will: Yep.
1394
01:05:14,492 --> 01:05:17,212
>> Sarah : So it's just. It's. It.
1395
01:05:17,284 --> 01:05:19,476
He. It is fascinating.
1396
01:05:19,636 --> 01:05:20,131
>> Will: It is.
1397
01:05:20,131 --> 01:05:23,090
>> Will: It is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1398
01:05:23,138 --> 01:05:26,098
That. That. I can't add anything more to that. I mean, I think
1399
01:05:26,122 --> 01:05:28,930
that that's what was. That's what made that scene work so.
1400
01:05:28,978 --> 01:05:31,852
So well. because as you
1401
01:05:31,884 --> 01:05:34,826
said that, And.
1402
01:05:34,866 --> 01:05:37,474
Yeah. And so whenever. Yeah, I mean,
1403
01:05:37,610 --> 01:05:40,402
really, as far as the rest of this episode, I mean, I think
1404
01:05:40,434 --> 01:05:43,394
that, you know, with a lot of. Just to turn it
1405
01:05:43,450 --> 01:05:46,286
to the Batman of it all, just for. For a moment,
1406
01:05:46,826 --> 01:05:49,754
with, you know, we were joking about the. The bomb
1407
01:05:49,810 --> 01:05:52,658
sequence there and being very predictable. But,
1408
01:05:52,762 --> 01:05:55,154
I mean, now I could. You know, it does.
1409
01:05:55,330 --> 01:05:58,130
Now take this whole. This. This gang
1410
01:05:58,178 --> 01:05:59,686
war that's been going on.
1411
01:06:00,886 --> 01:06:03,798
it does now that the Crown Point has
1412
01:06:03,822 --> 01:06:06,614
a big hole in the middle. I mean, Batman can't
1413
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:09,494
ignore it. So this. I think that's. That. So I
1414
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:12,198
think, you know, moving. Moving ahead to the Batman
1415
01:06:12,262 --> 01:06:15,102
2. And, you know,
1416
01:06:15,294 --> 01:06:17,546
now it makes sense why
1417
01:06:18,246 --> 01:06:21,144
Batman, Penguin. I, assume Sophia is probably going
1418
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,126
to survive, next week.
1419
01:06:24,796 --> 01:06:27,740
Well, you know, why these. Why this gang
1420
01:06:27,788 --> 01:06:29,296
war now gets his attention?
1421
01:06:30,116 --> 01:06:32,176
>> Sarah : You know, I.
1422
01:06:33,316 --> 01:06:35,900
During that sequence, I was not at all thinking
1423
01:06:35,948 --> 01:06:38,732
about the repercussions of the
1424
01:06:38,764 --> 01:06:41,380
hole in Crown's Peak. I was much more
1425
01:06:41,428 --> 01:06:44,394
fixated on, Crown's Point. I
1426
01:06:44,410 --> 01:06:47,166
was much more fixated on the
1427
01:06:49,506 --> 01:06:52,234
parallelism, between the Cold Open
1428
01:06:52,370 --> 01:06:55,268
and that scene. Because, like,
1429
01:06:55,332 --> 01:06:58,180
purposely we're made to believe it was the
1430
01:06:58,228 --> 01:07:01,052
same. Same door that he gets out of. His
1431
01:07:01,084 --> 01:07:03,976
men don't get out of. Just like, with his brothers.
1432
01:07:04,356 --> 01:07:07,096
And then just the. The dust.
1433
01:07:07,596 --> 01:07:10,405
And, the sound design of the whole sequence, it
1434
01:07:10,429 --> 01:07:13,405
reminds me of another explosion that happened
1435
01:07:13,429 --> 01:07:16,125
in a recent thing that I watched that Will did not
1436
01:07:16,189 --> 01:07:18,433
watch Joker 2.
1437
01:07:19,653 --> 01:07:22,652
This is the right way to do it. Not with what
1438
01:07:22,732 --> 01:07:24,396
happens in the Joker too.
1439
01:07:24,564 --> 01:07:25,392
>> Will: Spoiler.
1440
01:07:26,132 --> 01:07:28,352
>> Sarah : Okay, this is how you do it.
1441
01:07:29,078 --> 01:07:31,878
when I tell you. And honestly, I
1442
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:34,854
find it really amusing that you bring up, like,
1443
01:07:34,918 --> 01:07:37,718
with this sequence. Oh, yeah. And now like, of
1444
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:40,598
course, Batman. Because when we're. When you're sitting there watching
1445
01:07:40,630 --> 01:07:42,762
Joker 2 and the bomb comes off,
1446
01:07:43,452 --> 01:07:46,284
you first you're just like, what the fuck? And then you're
1447
01:07:46,308 --> 01:07:49,127
like, okay, is Batman just gonna suddenly
1448
01:07:49,175 --> 01:07:52,167
appear amidst the rumble? Like, he did this?
1449
01:07:52,335 --> 01:07:54,951
Yeah, like, this is the most comic
1450
01:07:55,007 --> 01:07:57,603
book cliche explosion ever.
1451
01:07:57,943 --> 01:08:00,663
Not like this. This was done so well. And then
1452
01:08:00,703 --> 01:08:03,569
what? and then the very next thing, I start to
1453
01:08:03,601 --> 01:08:06,321
laugh. Why did I start to laugh? Because
1454
01:08:06,497 --> 01:08:09,453
he sees a black Guy. And it's like.
1455
01:08:12,663 --> 01:08:15,527
I was just like, that is hilarious
1456
01:08:15,695 --> 01:08:18,283
for so many reasons. And also,
1457
01:08:18,663 --> 01:08:21,271
like, the fact that the number of
1458
01:08:21,327 --> 01:08:23,679
times either Oz or
1459
01:08:23,711 --> 01:08:26,519
myself ask throughout this episode,
1460
01:08:26,591 --> 01:08:27,471
where's Vic?
1461
01:08:27,607 --> 01:08:30,575
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I was thinking that throughout the episode too,
1462
01:08:30,599 --> 01:08:33,335
because, you know, at the very beginning, you know,
1463
01:08:33,519 --> 01:08:36,263
Vic. Vic's concussed after, you know, so he.
1464
01:08:36,303 --> 01:08:39,207
Thankfully, he lived. Yeah, yeah, he lived. You
1465
01:08:39,215 --> 01:08:40,641
know, he didn't get Jason Todd.
1466
01:08:40,807 --> 01:08:43,575
>> Sarah : So, he wasn't in the car. There was a
1467
01:08:43,599 --> 01:08:46,447
bomb. Because there, I will admit, there was a split
1468
01:08:46,495 --> 01:08:49,423
second when he opens the door. I was like, oh, is. Is Vic
1469
01:08:49,463 --> 01:08:50,203
in there?
1470
01:08:50,863 --> 01:08:53,751
>> Will: I thought that as well. I did too, because he's been gone the whole episode.
1471
01:08:53,767 --> 01:08:56,615
But I pointed me that that was. That was a very smart thing that
1472
01:08:56,639 --> 01:08:58,363
they did as far as misdirection,
1473
01:08:59,103 --> 01:09:01,911
>> Sarah : Because now, granted, granted, the way,
1474
01:09:02,007 --> 01:09:04,911
like, they end this with Sophia still has
1475
01:09:04,967 --> 01:09:07,751
Francis and. And
1476
01:09:07,807 --> 01:09:10,583
Oz is. Still has to go
1477
01:09:10,623 --> 01:09:13,271
and find his ma, you're just like, well,
1478
01:09:13,327 --> 01:09:16,023
okay, so we're gonna have another. What was it,
1479
01:09:16,063 --> 01:09:19,023
episode three, where. Where Sophia and
1480
01:09:19,063 --> 01:09:22,015
Oz are at gunpoint and. And then Vic comes
1481
01:09:22,039 --> 01:09:24,503
in with the car and stay like.
1482
01:09:24,663 --> 01:09:27,303
Like they set it up for that kind
1483
01:09:27,343 --> 01:09:30,271
of like we're gonna find out where Vic is
1484
01:09:30,367 --> 01:09:33,279
and he's gonna end because of his remote
1485
01:09:33,351 --> 01:09:36,223
absence. That's going to allow the escape to
1486
01:09:36,263 --> 01:09:38,543
happen. but
1487
01:09:40,043 --> 01:09:42,303
I think they also had to do that
1488
01:09:43,123 --> 01:09:46,003
because there was. There was
1489
01:09:46,043 --> 01:09:48,547
so much that needed to be done with
1490
01:09:48,675 --> 01:09:51,667
Sophia and Francis, Oz.
1491
01:09:51,795 --> 01:09:54,491
Sal and Oz as a little
1492
01:09:54,547 --> 01:09:57,113
boy. Yeah, yeah,
1493
01:09:57,893 --> 01:10:00,813
yeah. That we didn't have time for
1494
01:10:00,853 --> 01:10:02,165
Vic at the moment.
1495
01:10:02,309 --> 01:10:05,213
>> Will: No, no, no, it was. It was. I mean, because I think this is probably
1496
01:10:05,253 --> 01:10:08,245
the shortest runtime for. For all the episodes. I think it's only
1497
01:10:08,269 --> 01:10:11,233
like 46 minutes or something like that. Like that.
1498
01:10:11,733 --> 01:10:14,725
So, yeah, it was. It was a
1499
01:10:14,749 --> 01:10:17,651
packed penultimate episode. but you're right. I mean, they had to
1500
01:10:17,667 --> 01:10:20,667
move all the chess pieces, you know, and. And give a
1501
01:10:20,795 --> 01:10:22,940
answer, to question about what happened to
1502
01:10:24,180 --> 01:10:26,770
Oz's, brothers. But also, you know,
1503
01:10:26,810 --> 01:10:29,482
you. You know, and then they, you know,
1504
01:10:29,506 --> 01:10:32,439
they. They brought back the whole, Because I
1505
01:10:32,447 --> 01:10:35,303
think, you know, didn't they, Oz and his mom
1506
01:10:35,359 --> 01:10:38,031
talk about, you know, going to the little. The nightclub and
1507
01:10:38,063 --> 01:10:40,767
dancing and stuff? So in an earlier episode, so they.
1508
01:10:40,911 --> 01:10:43,775
They showed that scene this episode. And then of course,
1509
01:10:43,815 --> 01:10:46,799
at the end when Sophia, I guess
1510
01:10:46,847 --> 01:10:49,785
Rush was able to like, glean out that
1511
01:10:49,825 --> 01:10:52,415
moment. you know, they take her.
1512
01:10:52,575 --> 01:10:55,135
We see at the episode, they go to that same
1513
01:10:55,175 --> 01:10:57,817
old. Same old spot, for the
1514
01:10:57,841 --> 01:11:00,193
final confrontation that we'll get next week.
1515
01:11:00,369 --> 01:11:03,305
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, we
1516
01:11:03,345 --> 01:11:05,725
will get the final showdown
1517
01:11:06,105 --> 01:11:08,835
next week. and on that
1518
01:11:08,875 --> 01:11:11,275
note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find
1519
01:11:11,315 --> 01:11:11,923
you?
1520
01:11:12,099 --> 01:11:14,867
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on xforming on its
1521
01:11:14,931 --> 01:11:17,734
Twitter at will. And, Polk W I L L M
1522
01:11:17,734 --> 01:11:19,413
M P O L K. And.
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01:11:19,421 --> 01:11:22,293
>> Sarah : You can follow me there, too, at S.J. belmont S J B E L
1524
01:11:22,301 --> 01:11:25,157
M O N T. Please follow our crew there at Scene and
1525
01:11:25,173 --> 01:11:27,869
Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at
1526
01:11:27,909 --> 01:11:30,725
scene, underscore n, underscore Nerd, and visit our
1527
01:11:30,757 --> 01:11:33,749
website, www.scenerpodcast.com.
1528
01:11:33,789 --> 01:11:36,637
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast,
1529
01:11:36,693 --> 01:11:39,661
Spotify, YouTube or wherever. Gear Podcast, Connect. Geek out. You're
1530
01:11:39,685 --> 01:11:39,789
welcome.