Agatha All Along Episode 8-9 Breakdown & The Penguin's Pre-Finale Shock!

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>> Sarah : Greetings and nerds. This is Scene and Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont and with me as

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always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Will Polk. How are you doing tonight,

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Will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Happy victory Monday. My Panthers

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won.

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>> Sarah : Because you weren't watching them but you were listening to them on

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the radio.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I think that may be my m, my go to move

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for the rest of the season. I was listening to

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the radio network. I was thinking of coming back from dropping

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my kid off. what was home for the weekend

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and back at college. And Yeah, yeah, I

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think that might be my go to move. Well, they're actually

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playing. Yeah, they're actually playing in Germany this week.

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So for playing against the Planet Giants. So

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it's going to be an early Sunday morning game for, for me. So it's gonna

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be so like we're bumping the the, our podcast

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recording up tonight to. Due to the election.

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>> Sarah : I, so I did my normal

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Sunday routine of Agatha in the morning

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and Penguin at night.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And I in between I told you I got

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a haircut.

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>> Will: Right.

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>> Sarah : And then I I come home and I'm like,

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okay, so what should I

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randomly throw on? And

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I had Scene. Been seeing clips.

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You know me, I like the

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universe has to be telling me,

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not Will, but the universe has to tell me

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that I need to watch something. So there's

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these clips and I figured out the name of the

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show. I never heard of it. I never seen any

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promotion about this damn show outside of these

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random clips that had come

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up on my for you page on

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online so on

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TikTok mainly. And the show is called

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Rivals. Have you heard about this?

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>> Will: I have.

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>> Sarah : Oh, you have heard about Rivals?

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>> Will: I've heard about it but I haven't watched a single minute of it. but

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I've Scene it like maybe. Yeah,

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same kind of thing where it was just like maybe popped up on my timeline or

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whatever. Didn't really. I mean it just was there.

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But I don't know too much about it.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. So essentially I see

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and I've watched. I haven't finished it. I think it's

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eight episodes long.

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and I think I'm at the start of

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episode four because they're long

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ass episodes in my opinion.

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But it's on Hulu

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and it's British,

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so there are moments when I still

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have my subtitles on because there are moments when I have

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no idea what they're saying. No

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idea. And so

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here's the funny thing. Okay, so rewind and go

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back a little weeks. Every a few weeks, everyone.

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and I told you about a different show on Hulu,

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this little show called Tell Me Lies and how much

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freaking nudity and sex there was.

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>> Will: Right.

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>> Sarah : This is like if I had to

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compare, because this is what really

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caught me off guard about this whole rival

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show. And I'll get to the plot, but

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I just have to say this is

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like if Tell Me Lies was

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centered around middle aged

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British people. Yeah.

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It would be the same show.

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So much sex. So much

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sex and so many. I mean, you have about.

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They did a really good job in terms of.

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You have these marriages.

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and it becomes very clear in the

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first two episodes, maybe even the first

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episode alone, that the

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marriages all have their strengths and their

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weaknesses and no, none of them are

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perfect. There's a lot of cheating, there's a lot

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of,

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there's a lot of affairs happening.

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And,

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I just was a little bit shocked

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again by. And I'm not approved.

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But there's something about these TV shows where

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I'm just like, what is Hulu doing right now?

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>> Will: You know, it's funny you bring that up to me. I know there's been a lot of.

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There has been some discussion about

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like, how much sex or lack thereof,

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there has been in some recent

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productions and shows and stuff. But it sounds like you

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stumbled upon two years recently. That, doesn't

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seem to be the case.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, but. And what I will say

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though, that especially because

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comparing Tell Me Lies to

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Rivals is that

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Tell Me Lies, there's a lot of sex scenes,

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but the sex scenes aren't really

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in a way connected to, explaining

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the relationship. Okay.

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>> Will: Okay.

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>> Sarah : Between two characters. What I thought was,

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was interesting, was there was

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a whole montage of. And I'm, and

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I'm being serious about sex scenes. Like you

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saw at the end, I think, of episode one, you

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see flashes of each couple,

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or, or, or what you think

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will be a couple, and turns out someone's having an affair.

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And, but you can tell

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why the relationship is

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the way it is just based

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on the sexual positions and how,

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each character is

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behaving in that. Which I had never Scene done

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before. And I was like, okay, that's an interesting way

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to, Because it, paints a

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picture of honesty, about it. And it's not

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necessarily just to show nudity or

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a sex scene for the purpose of it. No,

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this is like what

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honestly, at the core this show is about is about

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these couples who. Or

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this circle of Friends who

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are in their, having these midlife

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crisises and still trying to figure out who they

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are and what love is.

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especially in a very class based

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system like England and

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London in particular, which they do a good job.

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And so this show

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is also set in the 80s, 1980s.

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So that's another reason why I still

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don't really know characters names because it's

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about two.

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Why, how I ended up getting the show reckoned me,

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I'll never know.

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>> Will: Yeah, I was like, so, yeah, what's, what are you watching on your

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algorithm there?

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>> Sarah : I don't know. The, the,

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the rivalry between these two

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people. I know David Tennant plays one of them,

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and is doing a very good job.

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you mentioned last week you watched Jessica Jones

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and his character in Jessica Jones.

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There's a turn at one point with his character on this

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show where you're like, oh, like

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you meet the two main

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protagonists, the Rivals, if

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you say, and one of them

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you like and one of them you don't. And then as

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the slow show progresses,

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I feel as though they purposely start to make

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that change where it's like suddenly like,

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oh, you're not the good guy.

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>> Will: Okay.

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>> Sarah : And you're not like, none of

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these people are good. And again, that's why it

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probably reminds me of Tell Me Lies.

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But it's also how

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they go about navigating

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their own flaws in a way. So

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anyway, long story short, I watched

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Rivals. I'll probably finish it. I'm not

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necessarily recommending it.

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It's very different and like I

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said, I don't really know a lot of the characters

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names. I don't really know

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what this and that. Maybe that's why I do find

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it a bit interesting is because I'm like, hopefully by

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the end of it I'll understand the true rivalry that's

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going on because I've never heard of any of these people.

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Granted it's British and it's, it's

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occurring in the 1980s so way before my

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time.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was looking while you were talking

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about it. I was looking at the, Looking at the IMDb and I was just

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looking at the cast and you know, just to take it, bring it back to.

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Since we are, you know, primarily comic book, TV

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show, podcast. so I actually wanted it. I think

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I know where I remember seeing it now. it was, Nafisa

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Williams. yeah, she was in black like

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lightning. Yeah, yeah, that's. I think I saw it on her

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Instagram page.

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>> Sarah : It took me at Least two or three episodes

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to figure that out because I was suddenly like, okay, it's

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driving me crazy. I know you, I know

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you. Where are you from? And as soon as I looked

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that up, I was like, yep, that makes sense now.

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Like, it's not a very different

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character from what I remember.

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but see,

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the show also reminds me to an

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extent of the morning show.

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And there's another character that

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the Cameron who she plays on

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Rivals reminds me of on that show.

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>> Will: Okay.

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>> Sarah : so, yeah, it's.

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It. Even though it's

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so pun intended, foreign to me,

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there's still this familiarity, whether

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it be her or whether it be like the fact that

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David Tennant is right, in that

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position and at the head.

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or it's just that I watched Tell Me

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Lies and so I'm used to watching a bunch of sex

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crazed, horrible people screw each

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other over, both figuratively and

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literally. So it's just.

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Yeah, yeah. I don't know what is going

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on with Hulu right now, but

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if, if you're suddenly like, I

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need to watch two people having sex. Hulu has

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shows.

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>> Will: Yeah, just, just go, go on your favorite streaming

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platform instead. Instead of having to go on the Internet, you can just do

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right that.

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>> Sarah : I have been keeping track of

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all the shows I've been watching and I've also been

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keeping track of what streaming platform they're

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on. Because I'm curious, by the end of this year,

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if I look at everything,

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where, where did the most.

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What, what, what. What streaming

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platform did I watch the most? And I'm only tracking

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new shows, so rewatch

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is thrown out the window. Or shows from previous

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year. So probably I rewatched the Bear season

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two twice this year. So neither of those

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watches count for, Hulu. But.

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And then also I'm curious, by the end of the

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year, the shows like

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my top five, will they

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be all centered on one platform or will they

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be spread out or will like three beyond one

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and one beyond another and

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then one on the other? So, yeah,

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I'm curious about the streaming wars that are happening.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it will be interesting. I was just, I was just working

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on our schedule for the, rest of the year and I was

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just, I was looking at the, looking at our

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December calendar and I was like, oh, man, this

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top. because there's not going to be movies this year because I haven't seen

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anything. It's going to be very TV heavy list this

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year.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. And I'm not going to do a, K drama because I.

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And we'll talk about it. We'll talk about that. But

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there's no, there's no. Nothing about

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K dramas. But I will. I will explain

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why later this year. before we

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get into the shows that we have to talk about

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and we have a lot to say about, Will wants

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me to just mention this. not because I've watched

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00:12:17,092 --> 00:12:19,927
this, but because he wants me to mention this.

263
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the Star Wars Skeleton Crew trailer number

264
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two is online.

265
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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool.

266
00:12:27,797 --> 00:12:30,597
Very cool. Yeah, I, you know, I threw this on here

267
00:12:30,709 --> 00:12:33,306
usually, you know, it's the.

268
00:12:33,686 --> 00:12:36,102
Well, has she or hasn't she watched this

269
00:12:36,134 --> 00:12:39,102
trailer? And notice I didn't put the Marvel one on there

270
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because I don't think either. I mean, you may have watched it. I know

271
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I have not. as far as the Marvel,

272
00:12:45,084 --> 00:12:48,044
actually. Okay. Oh, okay, well, see, here we

273
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go.

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>> Sarah : In my very roundabout way. Yeah,

275
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I have at least

276
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once or twice. Like, maybe. Okay, I

277
00:12:58,270 --> 00:13:00,946
guess. I guess I've watched three quarters of it.

278
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>> Will: Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah, I haven't. I think

279
00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:07,533
maybe. No, I think, whenever I just happened

280
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to retweet it, I saw the first few like, seconds of it and that was about

281
00:13:10,469 --> 00:13:13,371
it. Yeah. ah, but

282
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I did watch the Star wars trailer,

283
00:13:16,264 --> 00:13:19,169
skeleton true Crate 2 trailer. Actually,

284
00:13:19,209 --> 00:13:22,153
what got me to do it, I saw. Well, they did release the poster.

285
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I guess it was maybe Friday. And then, and I

286
00:13:25,171 --> 00:13:28,115
guess the second trailer dropped and actually it was a

287
00:13:28,147 --> 00:13:31,109
reactor. I was actually the first time I did

288
00:13:31,149 --> 00:13:34,053
watch the trailer was just a trailer reaction, just with a YouTuber

289
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that, that I met through, our friends over at A plus.

290
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>> Sarah : Opinions.

291
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>> Will: Opinions, yeah, had had on their Star wars

292
00:13:42,376 --> 00:13:45,318
show, Crystal, ah, Cyber. So, yeah, so I watched

293
00:13:45,342 --> 00:13:48,291
her trailer reaction to it and then I was like, oh, okay.

294
00:13:49,876 --> 00:13:52,772
they had the. The score which

295
00:13:52,804 --> 00:13:55,752
was, you know, made, you know, had the

296
00:13:55,824 --> 00:13:58,629
song Major Tom. It was from the 80s, which of

297
00:13:58,653 --> 00:14:01,485
course this trailer, you know, if you saw the first trailer and

298
00:14:01,501 --> 00:14:04,149
now the second trailer definitely has like the whole 80s

299
00:14:04,213 --> 00:14:05,937
Goonies vibe.

300
00:14:07,137 --> 00:14:09,979
and also as far as more recent shows,

301
00:14:10,043 --> 00:14:13,011
I would say it reminded me a lot of Star Trek Prodigy because

302
00:14:13,099 --> 00:14:15,835
there are kids in this

303
00:14:15,891 --> 00:14:18,659
series. And when I saw the second trailer, it

304
00:14:18,683 --> 00:14:21,609
reminded me a lot of the premise that, was behind Star Trek Prodigy,

305
00:14:21,633 --> 00:14:24,469
which is animated show, that just wrapped up a

306
00:14:24,493 --> 00:14:27,365
season two not too long ago. Not sure Netflix is going to

307
00:14:27,381 --> 00:14:30,306
renew it for a season three. I hope they do. But, the. The

308
00:14:30,354 --> 00:14:33,142
two showrunners behind it decided to do another project,

309
00:14:35,052 --> 00:14:37,272
for I think

310
00:14:37,692 --> 00:14:40,646
Disney or somebody else. So, I don't know is that season

311
00:14:40,686 --> 00:14:43,326
two, season three may not happen. Or if it does, it may be

312
00:14:43,446 --> 00:14:46,342
way, way off in the future. But getting back to Star

313
00:14:46,374 --> 00:14:49,182
Wars, I thought it was, you know, I'm looking

314
00:14:49,214 --> 00:14:52,158
forward to this series. I think it's definitely looks like it's going to be

315
00:14:52,182 --> 00:14:55,094
something that's different from, you know, it's clearly set

316
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:57,856
in the Star wars universe. But, you know, definitely had a little meta

317
00:14:57,896 --> 00:15:00,824
moments with all the 80s vibes that's going on. And like I

318
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,564
said, know, using up doing a

319
00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:06,598
song dubbed in, Star wars language, from

320
00:15:06,622 --> 00:15:09,606
the 80s, you know, brought kind of real

321
00:15:09,646 --> 00:15:12,534
world into the Star wars world, which was kind of like, oh,

322
00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:15,534
okay. Which, you know, they do that every now and then. I mean, you know,

323
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:18,462
Han Solo's famous line, see you in hell, Empire Strikes

324
00:15:18,494 --> 00:15:21,382
Back. So, you know, they have those meta moments like

325
00:15:21,414 --> 00:15:24,280
that. But, yeah, it prepared to premieres

326
00:15:24,328 --> 00:15:27,036
December 3rd and I'll have two episodes

327
00:15:27,116 --> 00:15:29,016
to, kick us off. So, there you go.

328
00:15:31,036 --> 00:15:33,620
>> Sarah : I had it. Very interesting that you're going to make me watch

329
00:15:33,668 --> 00:15:36,056
another Star wars show.

330
00:15:38,316 --> 00:15:39,896
>> Will: We always have a choice.

331
00:15:41,276 --> 00:15:43,972
>> Sarah : Did my time with Acolyte. Yeah, yeah.

332
00:15:44,084 --> 00:15:46,620
Don't make promises you can't keep. Well, don't make

333
00:15:46,668 --> 00:15:47,376
promises.

334
00:15:48,876 --> 00:15:51,636
>> Will: Well, I was lucky to have it. You know, holiday break will come right

335
00:15:51,676 --> 00:15:53,708
before we get too deep into.

336
00:15:53,852 --> 00:15:56,632
>> Sarah : I just will point out. I will point out, out like,

337
00:15:56,704 --> 00:15:59,472
I also say that because our

338
00:15:59,544 --> 00:16:02,512
longtime listeners will probably have

339
00:16:02,544 --> 00:16:05,448
probably been keeping notes that so far we have promised

340
00:16:05,512 --> 00:16:08,432
to return to Invincible. Haven't returned to

341
00:16:08,464 --> 00:16:11,088
Invincible. And then up until

342
00:16:11,232 --> 00:16:13,676
we off show decided,

343
00:16:14,446 --> 00:16:17,294
we were fully intended in August for me

344
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:20,222
to finish m watching

345
00:16:20,254 --> 00:16:22,800
the Acolyte. but that never

346
00:16:22,848 --> 00:16:25,832
happened. So. Yeah, funny, funny. Anyway,

347
00:16:25,904 --> 00:16:28,448
but shows that I did

348
00:16:28,552 --> 00:16:31,116
finish watching all the way through.

349
00:16:31,656 --> 00:16:33,796
Let's start with Agatha along

350
00:16:34,296 --> 00:16:37,216
the final two episodes. The first one, episode

351
00:16:37,256 --> 00:16:40,236
eight, Follow me, my friend. The glory at the end,

352
00:16:40,856 --> 00:16:43,432
essentially, this can be summed up. This is the end of the

353
00:16:43,464 --> 00:16:44,916
road and

354
00:16:48,186 --> 00:16:50,866
we talk about this all the time.

355
00:16:50,986 --> 00:16:53,882
Like the shows continue to be

356
00:16:53,914 --> 00:16:56,418
defined by their

357
00:16:56,602 --> 00:16:59,050
ending and arguably

358
00:16:59,138 --> 00:17:00,406
Agatha along

359
00:17:01,826 --> 00:17:04,474
with the last three, four

360
00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:07,386
episodes. So basically half

361
00:17:07,426 --> 00:17:10,314
of the season or a fair amount. And it

362
00:17:10,330 --> 00:17:12,621
did start off strong. Yeah,

363
00:17:13,306 --> 00:17:16,246
it, it demolished

364
00:17:17,626 --> 00:17:20,474
some of the, some of the endings and some of

365
00:17:20,490 --> 00:17:23,338
the seasons that we've received on Disney plus from the

366
00:17:23,362 --> 00:17:25,794
MCU over the last, like, year and a

367
00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:28,807
half. I, mean, this is, this is on, on

368
00:17:28,847 --> 00:17:31,347
par with Loki endings.

369
00:17:32,127 --> 00:17:34,831
because no

370
00:17:34,879 --> 00:17:37,538
one. And, And maybe it's because

371
00:17:37,586 --> 00:17:40,308
I've also very much am looking

372
00:17:40,356 --> 00:17:43,124
at things like, I don't want to hear

373
00:17:43,164 --> 00:17:46,028
people talk about. I don't want to hear a theory spouse. But

374
00:17:46,116 --> 00:17:49,024
I swear, I don't know if this.

375
00:17:49,364 --> 00:17:52,264
What the twist. The ending

376
00:17:52,604 --> 00:17:54,944
was on anyone's bingo card.

377
00:17:56,844 --> 00:17:59,788
>> Will: No, I don't think so. I mean, even though the breadcrumbs are right, if

378
00:17:59,796 --> 00:18:02,700
you're talking about Billy being the one

379
00:18:02,732 --> 00:18:03,724
who conjured up the road.

380
00:18:03,804 --> 00:18:06,644
>> Sarah : About the road. Yeah, the actual road. Because.

381
00:18:06,804 --> 00:18:09,764
Because the whole depth of it all, like. Like that

382
00:18:09,804 --> 00:18:12,388
I put that on storyline,

383
00:18:12,476 --> 00:18:15,164
almost like. Like it's important

384
00:18:15,324 --> 00:18:17,852
for very many reasons, but the

385
00:18:17,908 --> 00:18:20,024
big revelation.

386
00:18:21,164 --> 00:18:23,828
And it's ironic because the show is called Agatha

387
00:18:23,876 --> 00:18:26,604
along, when really, at the end of the day, it was

388
00:18:26,644 --> 00:18:28,324
Billy all along this season.

389
00:18:28,484 --> 00:18:31,356
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. And I love

390
00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:34,332
Agatha's line, too. It's just like you did, you know, you did something

391
00:18:34,388 --> 00:18:37,264
interesting with your powers that your mom did.

392
00:18:39,024 --> 00:18:41,864
>> Sarah : Yeah. And last week

393
00:18:41,904 --> 00:18:44,760
or the other week, when we were talking about the Tower

394
00:18:44,832 --> 00:18:47,616
reversed episode, as I like to call

395
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,004
it, Lilia's, episode,

396
00:18:50,984 --> 00:18:53,616
we talked about how, like, all these breadcrumbs were

397
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,288
there, and. But nobody was paying attention

398
00:18:56,416 --> 00:18:59,040
enough to really have already

399
00:18:59,112 --> 00:19:01,832
put together or those pieces.

400
00:19:01,928 --> 00:19:04,392
And so that's what made this

401
00:19:04,448 --> 00:19:07,400
revelation so much sweeter, is

402
00:19:07,432 --> 00:19:10,277
that, it hits you, and it's like, I see

403
00:19:10,317 --> 00:19:13,021
all the logic. That's amazing.

404
00:19:13,149 --> 00:19:16,061
And. And then it just increases rewatch

405
00:19:16,109 --> 00:19:19,013
ability because people will want to watch the beginning so

406
00:19:19,045 --> 00:19:21,661
they can see everything that they missed,

407
00:19:21,709 --> 00:19:24,657
or things will stand out in a different way.

408
00:19:25,277 --> 00:19:27,977
And it's just, I.

409
00:19:28,677 --> 00:19:31,611
I was. And also on top of it.

410
00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:34,279
On top of it, like,

411
00:19:34,463 --> 00:19:37,359
we're talking about the very end of episode

412
00:19:37,423 --> 00:19:39,907
eight is when Billy returns home

413
00:19:40,327 --> 00:19:43,319
and he looks in his room and all

414
00:19:43,343 --> 00:19:46,311
of the pieces are there, and it's just like. And

415
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,079
then you hear the line from Lilia of saying, you're the

416
00:19:49,103 --> 00:19:52,087
magician and you wanted this,

417
00:19:52,207 --> 00:19:55,103
so you made it happen. But

418
00:19:55,215 --> 00:19:58,095
on top of it, it's just like, okay,

419
00:19:58,151 --> 00:20:00,979
well, that felt like a very, like,

420
00:20:01,043 --> 00:20:03,610
aha. End, of season

421
00:20:03,786 --> 00:20:04,954
cliffhanger.

422
00:20:05,138 --> 00:20:05,714
>> Will: Yeah.

423
00:20:05,818 --> 00:20:08,674
>> Sarah : But they were like,

424
00:20:08,858 --> 00:20:11,634
you probably also. Because I'll admit, I was also

425
00:20:11,698 --> 00:20:14,522
like, wait, wait, can I clarify? So he

426
00:20:14,602 --> 00:20:16,338
made, like, what?

427
00:20:16,450 --> 00:20:17,098
>> Will: Huh?

428
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:19,362
>> Sarah : Like, I needed the final

429
00:20:19,442 --> 00:20:21,742
episode, which

430
00:20:22,122 --> 00:20:24,542
is truly Agatha's episode,

431
00:20:25,082 --> 00:20:27,506
and to really put the pieces all

432
00:20:27,554 --> 00:20:29,482
together because

433
00:20:30,782 --> 00:20:32,802
you're. You're just like,

434
00:20:33,382 --> 00:20:35,438
oh, so now I get it.

435
00:20:35,630 --> 00:20:38,222
So the way they were, like,

436
00:20:38,382 --> 00:20:40,990
the road was a

437
00:20:41,046 --> 00:20:43,947
con for Agatha M.

438
00:20:43,947 --> 00:20:46,214
And it had been

439
00:20:46,358 --> 00:20:48,950
buried the Con

440
00:20:49,046 --> 00:20:51,322
became a myth, became a legend,

441
00:20:51,902 --> 00:20:54,202
and then Billy took that

442
00:20:54,592 --> 00:20:57,352
and made it into a reality. And it's just.

443
00:20:57,432 --> 00:20:59,288
Oh, so well done.

444
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,232
>> Will: So, so well done. Yeah. And one. As soon as I

445
00:21:02,272 --> 00:21:05,002
finished, the episode, both episodes, I was like,

446
00:21:06,062 --> 00:21:08,798
perfect. I'm so glad that they had these

447
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:10,242
dropped back to back.

448
00:21:10,862 --> 00:21:12,317
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

449
00:21:12,317 --> 00:21:14,900
>> Will: because they really, you know, it really was

450
00:21:14,956 --> 00:21:17,388
like, you know, it was. It felt

451
00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:20,014
like a movie

452
00:21:20,078 --> 00:21:22,638
and a complete story.

453
00:21:22,790 --> 00:21:25,614
And the other thing too, that I really,

454
00:21:25,678 --> 00:21:28,670
really enjoyed about it was, you know,

455
00:21:28,726 --> 00:21:31,590
I've got a joke during over the

456
00:21:31,686 --> 00:21:34,230
course of our reviews. Oh, yeah, well, you know, we'll get the

457
00:21:34,246 --> 00:21:36,710
Marvel usual third act and, you know,

458
00:21:36,806 --> 00:21:39,322
fireworks and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

459
00:21:39,702 --> 00:21:42,454
But they didn't do that. I mean, yes, there was a Marvel

460
00:21:42,518 --> 00:21:45,482
third act fight in episode eight, but,

461
00:21:45,582 --> 00:21:48,262
you know, all of it was like,

462
00:21:48,602 --> 00:21:51,298
basically we just saw the flashes when death,

463
00:21:51,370 --> 00:21:53,742
like, threw Billy over into the greenhouse.

464
00:21:54,082 --> 00:21:56,994
So, you know, so we had those

465
00:21:57,098 --> 00:21:59,994
moments, but, you know, but that wasn't the focal point. I mean,

466
00:22:00,018 --> 00:22:02,842
it was all about the story and all about the breadcrumbs and

467
00:22:02,882 --> 00:22:05,222
like, like you said, I mean, it was just

468
00:22:05,562 --> 00:22:06,302
the

469
00:22:08,642 --> 00:22:11,634
really how he conjured things

470
00:22:11,778 --> 00:22:13,832
from, you know, the

471
00:22:14,692 --> 00:22:17,652
ultimate con game that, you know, the Nikon artist that,

472
00:22:17,772 --> 00:22:19,752
that Agatha is,

473
00:22:21,292 --> 00:22:24,188
was m. Just. Was just brilliant stroke.

474
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:27,020
I mean, as far as, like, you know, you know, we're going into

475
00:22:27,076 --> 00:22:29,804
that episode eight, I was like, oh, you

476
00:22:29,828 --> 00:22:32,748
know, we will, we will. You know, I was

477
00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:35,740
anticipating. And I was. I was anticipating the

478
00:22:35,756 --> 00:22:38,652
straight out between Agatha and Death. And I was

479
00:22:38,692 --> 00:22:41,070
thinking like, oh, yeah, we're gonna get a Tommy,

480
00:22:41,246 --> 00:22:44,096
like, show up. I never did. I will

481
00:22:44,136 --> 00:22:46,808
say I never thought Wanda was going to show up because

482
00:22:46,952 --> 00:22:49,896
I think they made this very clear that this is. This is

483
00:22:49,936 --> 00:22:52,520
not Wanda's story. Now it's about. Even though

484
00:22:52,608 --> 00:22:55,176
Juana's presence is there clearly.

485
00:22:55,336 --> 00:22:58,256
But I never. I was

486
00:22:58,376 --> 00:23:01,368
really hoping that they wouldn't go there. And I'm m glad it did

487
00:23:01,392 --> 00:23:04,280
not go there. So. Yeah, I was.

488
00:23:04,408 --> 00:23:05,116
Yes.

489
00:23:06,216 --> 00:23:08,848
>> Sarah : Yeah. I would just like to say that

490
00:23:08,952 --> 00:23:11,560
I never thought we would see

491
00:23:11,608 --> 00:23:13,968
Tommy. I never thought we would see

492
00:23:14,152 --> 00:23:17,080
Wanda or Vision. I don't know why,

493
00:23:17,248 --> 00:23:20,168
but that possibility never happened in

494
00:23:20,192 --> 00:23:22,712
my mind. I thought,

495
00:23:22,904 --> 00:23:25,776
like, in a way, the way

496
00:23:25,816 --> 00:23:27,876
they ended episode eight,

497
00:23:28,696 --> 00:23:31,688
I was just like, oh, my God, we have one

498
00:23:31,712 --> 00:23:33,168
more episode. Thank God.

499
00:23:33,352 --> 00:23:36,264
>> Will: Yeah, me too. It felt

500
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,376
like a finale, Ellie. It really did.

501
00:23:39,436 --> 00:23:42,428
>> Sarah : And that's why, like, I had kind of checked out of the

502
00:23:42,452 --> 00:23:45,207
fight. But at, the same time, the fight,

503
00:23:45,311 --> 00:23:48,263
in my opinion, was so short that it

504
00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:51,103
was perfect. Because you just

505
00:23:51,159 --> 00:23:53,647
needed to get to that point where Agatha

506
00:23:53,711 --> 00:23:54,955
tells him,

507
00:23:56,385 --> 00:23:58,313
she's gonna sacrifice herself.

508
00:23:58,449 --> 00:23:59,165
>> Will: Yeah.

509
00:23:59,585 --> 00:24:02,045
>> Sarah : And. And then there's the double cross.

510
00:24:02,385 --> 00:24:05,169
And you need the double cross. And then you

511
00:24:05,217 --> 00:24:07,553
need that moment of her

512
00:24:07,649 --> 00:24:10,085
actual sacrificing herself,

513
00:24:11,075 --> 00:24:12,775
because of

514
00:24:14,235 --> 00:24:17,195
her, what

515
00:24:17,235 --> 00:24:19,579
she couldn't do for her son, essentially.

516
00:24:19,707 --> 00:24:22,507
And that was the

517
00:24:22,531 --> 00:24:25,019
big moment of the fight. It wasn't

518
00:24:25,067 --> 00:24:27,843
necessarily about the powers and them going

519
00:24:27,899 --> 00:24:30,455
one on one. It was more about that

520
00:24:31,865 --> 00:24:34,457
because. And they set that up at the very beginning of the

521
00:24:34,481 --> 00:24:37,233
episode when you have this very.

522
00:24:37,329 --> 00:24:40,297
What felt like the longest scene in the entire

523
00:24:40,401 --> 00:24:43,299
episode, maybe is

524
00:24:43,427 --> 00:24:46,275
between her and Death and Rio at the very

525
00:24:46,315 --> 00:24:49,059
beginning. And you're getting these hints

526
00:24:49,147 --> 00:24:50,895
about how,

527
00:24:52,395 --> 00:24:55,075
like, why is Death still here? And it's

528
00:24:55,115 --> 00:24:57,681
because. What I found so interesting

529
00:24:57,843 --> 00:25:00,705
is it's because Billy's an abomination

530
00:25:01,685 --> 00:25:04,365
and she wants to remove

531
00:25:04,445 --> 00:25:06,925
him and make sure and

532
00:25:06,965 --> 00:25:09,385
guarantee he can't bring Tommy,

533
00:25:09,685 --> 00:25:12,603
the Tommy, back. And it's

534
00:25:12,619 --> 00:25:15,595
just. I like that. Those were other things. I never thought about

535
00:25:15,635 --> 00:25:18,635
that. I mean, like, I had just naturally assumed

536
00:25:18,755 --> 00:25:20,935
he jumped into somebody's body too.

537
00:25:23,065 --> 00:25:25,721
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And I think that was.

538
00:25:25,913 --> 00:25:27,645
Yeah, I think that was very important.

539
00:25:27,985 --> 00:25:30,665
>> Sarah : That's like Death wanted him

540
00:25:30,785 --> 00:25:31,457
gone.

541
00:25:31,601 --> 00:25:32,170
>> Will: Yeah.

542
00:25:33,405 --> 00:25:36,167
>> Sarah : yeah, but. But sorry, go ahead. I

543
00:25:36,191 --> 00:25:38,263
was rambling a little bit much.

544
00:25:38,439 --> 00:25:41,175
>> Will: No, no, no, no. I was just going to pick up that point about death

545
00:25:41,215 --> 00:25:44,207
wanted him gone and making it very clear that to

546
00:25:44,231 --> 00:25:46,675
Agatha that he had to make the choice,

547
00:25:47,345 --> 00:25:48,525
you know, because,

548
00:25:50,215 --> 00:25:52,715
you know, she, if he, you know, because

549
00:25:53,495 --> 00:25:56,103
if, if, if he, if she just. If, you

550
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,095
know, if Agatha takes him out, then he can just reincarnate himself

551
00:25:59,135 --> 00:26:02,095
and we start his whole thing over again. So they really get to that point

552
00:26:02,135 --> 00:26:05,087
about the abomination. And then the other thing too, that

553
00:26:05,111 --> 00:26:08,079
you were talking about, the fight that, that I just wanted to bring up

554
00:26:08,167 --> 00:26:11,071
what made that scene so

555
00:26:11,143 --> 00:26:13,927
strong and works so well, especially how, you

556
00:26:13,951 --> 00:26:16,580
know, how they built up to it early,

557
00:26:16,844 --> 00:26:19,832
on in the ep. you know, just to

558
00:26:19,848 --> 00:26:22,204
reinforce the points we were talking about with the

559
00:26:22,584 --> 00:26:24,244
Agatha bringing him in

560
00:26:24,864 --> 00:26:27,726
is, and really sets up the. Sets up

561
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:30,318
the second episode as

562
00:26:30,366 --> 00:26:33,054
well is when Billy, like, gets, you know,

563
00:26:33,174 --> 00:26:35,374
gets into Agatha's head and, you know,

564
00:26:35,494 --> 00:26:37,961
questions, is this how, Nic died?

565
00:26:38,701 --> 00:26:39,357
Nikki died?

566
00:26:39,389 --> 00:26:40,041
>> Sarah : Yeah.

567
00:26:40,476 --> 00:26:43,348
>> Will: Because again, that just, you know, I

568
00:26:43,372 --> 00:26:43,936
think.

569
00:26:48,236 --> 00:26:51,068
>> Sarah : Yeah. Oh, sorry. I thought for some reason we had moved on

570
00:26:51,092 --> 00:26:53,940
to episode nine for a moment, but. No. Yeah,

571
00:26:53,988 --> 00:26:56,740
that, that was, that was what allowed her

572
00:26:56,788 --> 00:26:58,916
to actually self sacrifice herself.

573
00:26:59,036 --> 00:27:02,012
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just. Yeah. So I just thought

574
00:27:02,044 --> 00:27:04,932
Those are just really. Just, you know, just to go back to that point earlier,

575
00:27:04,964 --> 00:27:07,868
I didn't get. I just wanted to really, you know,

576
00:27:07,932 --> 00:27:10,356
reinforce why I thought the. The what.

577
00:27:10,436 --> 00:27:12,594
What made this penultimate

578
00:27:12,650 --> 00:27:15,623
episode, just work so on so

579
00:27:15,647 --> 00:27:18,633
many levels. again, it's just all

580
00:27:18,737 --> 00:27:21,537
this is all the character. All the character beats

581
00:27:21,689 --> 00:27:24,609
and. And it really just like, pulls

582
00:27:24,665 --> 00:27:27,417
all those little. All the. All the various threads that we

583
00:27:27,449 --> 00:27:29,833
had all up to in the prior seven

584
00:27:29,897 --> 00:27:32,809
episodes and things that were said, things that

585
00:27:32,825 --> 00:27:35,585
were done. You know, I. I just felt they were all

586
00:27:35,633 --> 00:27:38,471
very satisfying payoffs, in this episode

587
00:27:38,551 --> 00:27:41,295
and to the point where I was just like, wait a minute.

588
00:27:41,463 --> 00:27:44,327
I knew we had one more episode to go, but I was

589
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,159
like, okay, they did all this in episode eight. I mean,

590
00:27:47,215 --> 00:27:50,047
what the. What the hell are they going to do in episode nine?

591
00:27:50,239 --> 00:27:52,927
Because. Yeah, yeah, because, you know, we

592
00:27:52,959 --> 00:27:55,859
also learn about, Jen, you

593
00:27:55,875 --> 00:27:57,791
know, Agatha bonding. Jen.

594
00:27:59,221 --> 00:28:01,453
>> Sarah : that whole thing was just

595
00:28:01,597 --> 00:28:04,105
like, well, well, I

596
00:28:04,233 --> 00:28:07,089
forgot. Or I was just.

597
00:28:07,185 --> 00:28:08,905
I had to make some money.

598
00:28:09,073 --> 00:28:09,781
>> Will: Yeah.

599
00:28:11,081 --> 00:28:13,841
>> Sarah : Oliver. And you really feel for

600
00:28:13,881 --> 00:28:16,537
Jen as she's doing the unbinding

601
00:28:16,689 --> 00:28:18,861
spell. And I feel as though

602
00:28:19,561 --> 00:28:22,177
that scene in particular between

603
00:28:22,329 --> 00:28:24,536
her and Agatha just,

604
00:28:24,905 --> 00:28:25,821
showcases.

605
00:28:28,331 --> 00:28:31,259
Even as early as WandaVision, you could tell

606
00:28:31,315 --> 00:28:33,751
that Kathryn Hahn in this part

607
00:28:34,451 --> 00:28:36,471
just needed more

608
00:28:36,771 --> 00:28:38,511
time because

609
00:28:39,411 --> 00:28:42,107
she walks such a fascinating line

610
00:28:42,179 --> 00:28:44,351
that's very difficult to do of where

611
00:28:44,771 --> 00:28:47,071
you actually like Agatha,

612
00:28:48,171 --> 00:28:51,059
even though, you know, she's a complete

613
00:28:51,155 --> 00:28:53,471
phony con artist bitch.

614
00:28:53,931 --> 00:28:56,656
Like, she. She,

615
00:28:56,606 --> 00:28:58,414
She's not a good person.

616
00:28:58,590 --> 00:28:59,094
>> Will: No.

617
00:28:59,190 --> 00:29:02,186
>> Sarah : But there's also something about her.

618
00:29:02,966 --> 00:29:05,574
Her almost flat out

619
00:29:05,670 --> 00:29:07,666
ownership. Like,

620
00:29:08,301 --> 00:29:10,877
we're like, yeah, I did it, whatever.

621
00:29:10,989 --> 00:29:13,677
Moving on. Like, what do you expect?

622
00:29:13,869 --> 00:29:16,677
That you're just like, okay, well, at least she's not sitting

623
00:29:16,709 --> 00:29:19,361
in here. Denial or.

624
00:29:20,941 --> 00:29:23,191
It's just. It's not like

625
00:29:24,091 --> 00:29:26,907
she's not bad, but she's.

626
00:29:26,979 --> 00:29:29,903
She's not good either. I. Every

627
00:29:29,927 --> 00:29:32,721
time I think about. And, the

628
00:29:32,761 --> 00:29:35,601
anti hero. Do you know. Do you know what the

629
00:29:35,641 --> 00:29:37,741
first thought comes to my mind?

630
00:29:38,601 --> 00:29:39,461
>> Will: Do you?

631
00:29:41,081 --> 00:29:43,706
>> Sarah : Okay. Huh?

632
00:29:43,706 --> 00:29:44,206
Huh?

633
00:29:44,217 --> 00:29:45,785
>> Will: Go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead.

634
00:29:45,913 --> 00:29:48,793
>> Sarah : No, no, no, it's not Yaba Shuge. No, no, no, no. We're

635
00:29:48,817 --> 00:29:51,581
not talking about the Penguin quite yet, but.

636
00:29:51,881 --> 00:29:54,833
No. What. My. My honest to

637
00:29:54,857 --> 00:29:57,737
God first thought is a movie that I don't think neither

638
00:29:57,769 --> 00:30:00,601
of us have Scene, but we've Scene the trailers.

639
00:30:00,681 --> 00:30:02,061
So Black Adam.

640
00:30:05,601 --> 00:30:08,401
Just because I know. I know from people

641
00:30:08,441 --> 00:30:11,425
who watched that movie that they did not do a good

642
00:30:11,473 --> 00:30:14,241
job and he never really was the

643
00:30:14,281 --> 00:30:17,037
bad guy, even though so.

644
00:30:17,189 --> 00:30:19,405
And. But she is, well,

645
00:30:19,493 --> 00:30:22,461
simultaneously not I wouldn't

646
00:30:22,501 --> 00:30:25,213
say being the hero, but being that

647
00:30:25,357 --> 00:30:27,637
our protagonist. So it's just.

648
00:30:27,829 --> 00:30:30,757
It's she. They. They

649
00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:33,001
do such a good job between her performance

650
00:30:33,461 --> 00:30:36,437
because she goes from like brushing it

651
00:30:36,469 --> 00:30:39,165
off to Jen starting the spell.

652
00:30:39,333 --> 00:30:41,821
And the longer it goes on, you see it

653
00:30:41,901 --> 00:30:44,423
through her face like

654
00:30:44,487 --> 00:30:47,127
Agatha's. You see

655
00:30:47,199 --> 00:30:49,091
glimmers of,

656
00:30:49,716 --> 00:30:51,572
Remorse almost.

657
00:30:51,724 --> 00:30:52,268
>> Will: Yeah.

658
00:30:52,372 --> 00:30:55,156
>> Sarah : And then. And then Jen gets her powers and

659
00:30:55,196 --> 00:30:58,140
disappears. And then you have

660
00:30:58,268 --> 00:31:01,236
this moment where you're like, oh, okay, so this is where she's

661
00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:04,084
gonna get Billy to

662
00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:07,124
turn himself over to death. Okay. But no, that doesn't

663
00:31:07,180 --> 00:31:09,920
happen. She actually. They start

664
00:31:09,968 --> 00:31:12,800
to. Let's find Tommy. Let's do this. Let's bring that

665
00:31:12,848 --> 00:31:15,672
Tommy. And this is. Leads

666
00:31:15,704 --> 00:31:18,368
into something that between both episodes, I thought was

667
00:31:18,432 --> 00:31:21,046
really clever. was

668
00:31:23,546 --> 00:31:26,354
Billy is

669
00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:28,762
now more like

670
00:31:28,834 --> 00:31:31,418
Agatha than his own mom.

671
00:31:31,602 --> 00:31:32,406
>> Will: Yep.

672
00:31:34,316 --> 00:31:37,164
>> Sarah : but even maybe that's not right

673
00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:40,028
because there was this little old movie called Doctor

674
00:31:40,052 --> 00:31:42,412
Strange 2 where Wanda went a little

675
00:31:42,444 --> 00:31:45,284
cuckoo. So maybe that's

676
00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:47,256
not completely right. But

677
00:31:47,716 --> 00:31:50,364
there's like

678
00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:53,148
they. And it's not

679
00:31:53,212 --> 00:31:56,016
for better necessarily.

680
00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:57,268
>> Will: No, no.

681
00:31:57,412 --> 00:32:00,068
>> Sarah : She did like the realization that

682
00:32:00,132 --> 00:32:02,932
he's the person who made up the road. Well,

683
00:32:03,044 --> 00:32:05,716
you therefore then killed

684
00:32:05,756 --> 00:32:06,676
Mrs. Hart.

685
00:32:06,796 --> 00:32:07,536
>> Will: Yep.

686
00:32:07,731 --> 00:32:10,418
>> Sarah : which thank God they kept that going with

687
00:32:10,442 --> 00:32:12,766
Agatha not knowing who Sharon was.

688
00:32:15,306 --> 00:32:17,770
My only gripe about this whole

689
00:32:17,818 --> 00:32:20,282
finale is at the end when they make the

690
00:32:20,314 --> 00:32:23,170
memorial and inscribe all the names. They put

691
00:32:23,218 --> 00:32:26,042
Sharon Hart. They should have put the gardener

692
00:32:26,114 --> 00:32:26,846
lady.

693
00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:31,286
Yeah, yeah.

694
00:32:32,066 --> 00:32:33,286
>> Will: The other green witch.

695
00:32:34,206 --> 00:32:37,159
>> Sarah : Yeah. And during them

696
00:32:37,207 --> 00:32:40,207
trying to find Tommy, you suddenly

697
00:32:40,271 --> 00:32:43,175
start to see, see and hear through

698
00:32:43,215 --> 00:32:46,167
Billy, like his hesitation, like, wait

699
00:32:46,191 --> 00:32:48,839
a second. Like there's this

700
00:32:48,887 --> 00:32:51,075
person. He's in trouble.

701
00:32:52,815 --> 00:32:54,475
He's in a bad place.

702
00:32:55,175 --> 00:32:58,167
But he has to die

703
00:32:58,311 --> 00:33:00,675
for my brother to be reborn.

704
00:33:01,255 --> 00:33:03,839
Like, how up is

705
00:33:03,887 --> 00:33:06,743
that? Yeah, that's something coming

706
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:07,795
at all. Either.

707
00:33:09,010 --> 00:33:11,666
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah, that,

708
00:33:11,738 --> 00:33:14,650
that, those, those. Those. Those questions

709
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:17,674
I think is another thing. Reason why this show just really like, just

710
00:33:17,722 --> 00:33:20,350
really resonated with me because it really,

711
00:33:20,770 --> 00:33:23,730
you know, in that moment where Billy is trying to

712
00:33:23,770 --> 00:33:26,578
figure out like, you know, does ask the question, you

713
00:33:26,594 --> 00:33:29,528
know, Michael and his voice. My brother can live. And

714
00:33:29,544 --> 00:33:32,336
then also, you know, he literally does have blood on his hands other

715
00:33:32,368 --> 00:33:35,105
than. Other than chin. But, And

716
00:33:35,185 --> 00:33:37,325
you are. You are right. I mean, I know

717
00:33:37,865 --> 00:33:40,785
it. Yes, Wanda did have her moments in

718
00:33:40,825 --> 00:33:43,793
Doctor Strange too. But I mean, Billy takes it to

719
00:33:43,809 --> 00:33:46,641
the next level as far as just, you know.

720
00:33:46,673 --> 00:33:49,617
Yes, they both. They both have the same thing in con, you know,

721
00:33:49,761 --> 00:33:52,485
with. But I guess, I guess,

722
00:33:53,265 --> 00:33:56,025
I guess in Wanda's case, you know, she conjured up

723
00:33:56,105 --> 00:33:58,561
Westview and the. In the hex, you know, out of

724
00:33:58,593 --> 00:34:01,553
grief, you

725
00:34:01,569 --> 00:34:02,445
know, and I guess.

726
00:34:03,945 --> 00:34:04,713
>> Sarah : Yep.

727
00:34:04,849 --> 00:34:07,601
>> Will: Yeah, Billy did too. Yeah. Billy

728
00:34:07,633 --> 00:34:10,118
also conjured. It was a grief, of

729
00:34:10,238 --> 00:34:13,193
lose. Of,

730
00:34:13,143 --> 00:34:14,787
Losing, you know, losing his brother.

731
00:34:15,767 --> 00:34:18,655
>> Sarah : Yeah. And arguably by the

732
00:34:18,671 --> 00:34:21,547
end of the next episode, we realized that

733
00:34:21,967 --> 00:34:24,831
the whole road, song

734
00:34:24,879 --> 00:34:27,247
and dance, was created out of

735
00:34:27,287 --> 00:34:30,047
grief over Agatha losing

736
00:34:30,207 --> 00:34:31,071
her son.

737
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:32,627
>> Will: Yep. Yeah.

738
00:34:33,247 --> 00:34:36,167
>> Sarah : Like. And then that just takes you back

739
00:34:36,207 --> 00:34:39,095
to anybody who's been watching both

740
00:34:39,271 --> 00:34:42,208
WandaVision and this show. The penultimate episode

741
00:34:42,294 --> 00:34:44,723
of WandaVision where it talks about grief.

742
00:34:44,855 --> 00:34:45,607
>> Will: Yep.

743
00:34:45,672 --> 00:34:48,501
>> Sarah : and love in the. One of the most poetic

744
00:34:48,549 --> 00:34:51,197
conversations ever on screen. So it's

745
00:34:51,237 --> 00:34:54,021
just like, thank God

746
00:34:54,189 --> 00:34:57,053
Jack Schaefer was the showrunner for both

747
00:34:57,085 --> 00:34:59,909
of these shows. And I know,

748
00:34:59,973 --> 00:35:02,933
I know. Vision Quest is quote unquote,

749
00:35:02,965 --> 00:35:05,885
on the horizon. Put her

750
00:35:05,941 --> 00:35:06,817
there, too.

751
00:35:07,197 --> 00:35:10,133
>> Will: Yeah. She should consult with Terry Matalis. I'm

752
00:35:10,165 --> 00:35:13,085
confident that Terry will get it right just seeing the work that

753
00:35:13,101 --> 00:35:15,933
he did with Star Trek Picard Season 3. So I'm not worried

754
00:35:15,965 --> 00:35:17,077
there. Yeah.

755
00:35:17,417 --> 00:35:20,169
>> Sarah : Okay, well, but let her have

756
00:35:20,193 --> 00:35:23,073
some consultation because, I don't know, so

757
00:35:23,105 --> 00:35:26,048
far, she's just a, two for two on this with

758
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,888
these characters. She knows them so well. Or

759
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,896
this. It's not even the characters. It's this world of

760
00:35:31,944 --> 00:35:32,892
Westview.

761
00:35:34,442 --> 00:35:37,074
and I just

762
00:35:37,178 --> 00:35:40,114
like, into episode nine, maiden

763
00:35:40,178 --> 00:35:42,574
Mother come. So

764
00:35:42,718 --> 00:35:45,042
we start off with

765
00:35:45,422 --> 00:35:48,214
the flashback to the literal birth

766
00:35:48,278 --> 00:35:50,942
scene. Another thing that. I don't know what's going

767
00:35:50,982 --> 00:35:53,646
on, but this is, like, between this

768
00:35:53,694 --> 00:35:56,462
show and House of Dragons. I've Scene so many

769
00:35:56,502 --> 00:35:58,966
bursts on TV over the last few

770
00:35:59,014 --> 00:35:59,602
years.

771
00:36:01,222 --> 00:36:03,806
>> Will: Now, granted, this one was a traumatic burst of that.

772
00:36:03,854 --> 00:36:06,819
>> Sarah : Yeah. yeah. This one could have been more

773
00:36:06,859 --> 00:36:09,707
dramatic, but it didn't. It felt more like it

774
00:36:09,723 --> 00:36:12,567
just like. And then she pushed and popped right out.

775
00:36:12,623 --> 00:36:15,099
And like, that's not. Well, whatever.

776
00:36:17,099 --> 00:36:19,279
but it's. It's interesting

777
00:36:19,819 --> 00:36:22,579
the more we talk about these two episodes and

778
00:36:22,659 --> 00:36:25,011
specifically Billy and

779
00:36:25,075 --> 00:36:27,315
Agatha and their

780
00:36:27,427 --> 00:36:29,719
arcs and their

781
00:36:30,179 --> 00:36:32,599
similar motivations. At the end,

782
00:36:35,979 --> 00:36:38,939
Agatha says to Nikki, as

783
00:36:38,979 --> 00:36:41,479
a little, little baby who can't talk back,

784
00:36:42,509 --> 00:36:45,485
I didn't cast a spell or an

785
00:36:45,517 --> 00:36:47,889
incantation. I made you.

786
00:36:48,389 --> 00:36:50,655
I made you. from scratch.

787
00:36:50,807 --> 00:36:51,539
>> Will: Yeah.

788
00:36:53,759 --> 00:36:55,939
>> Sarah : How much do you think that is true?

789
00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:00,559
>> Will: Yeah. You know, whenever she said that,

790
00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:03,471
I. I'm trying to think back to. Because I watched the show on

791
00:37:03,495 --> 00:37:05,499
Halloween, so it's been a few days.

792
00:37:06,919 --> 00:37:09,487
I know what I.

793
00:37:09,663 --> 00:37:12,207
That line stuck out to me, that he

794
00:37:12,223 --> 00:37:14,743
was. That basically, I thought he was a natural

795
00:37:14,791 --> 00:37:17,621
birth. and

796
00:37:17,765 --> 00:37:20,409
so which made

797
00:37:20,829 --> 00:37:22,649
I Think. Which makes

798
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:26,173
the. When

799
00:37:26,301 --> 00:37:29,253
Death comes to take him. I think that that just

800
00:37:29,301 --> 00:37:32,163
adds to the deeper for me,

801
00:37:32,291 --> 00:37:34,359
added a deeper level for like

802
00:37:35,299 --> 00:37:38,199
why he, you know, why Nikki was so special.

803
00:37:38,484 --> 00:37:41,412
and also it shuts up another contrast between her

804
00:37:41,428 --> 00:37:42,344
and Wanda.

805
00:37:44,419 --> 00:37:47,294
>> Will: was really what I think maybe at the real. When I think back,

806
00:37:47,334 --> 00:37:50,329
I think that was the thing that really. That stuck out to me.

807
00:37:50,279 --> 00:37:53,195
whenever she said that when I was watching episode,

808
00:37:54,255 --> 00:37:54,995
I.

809
00:37:55,745 --> 00:37:58,385
>> Sarah : The more I talk about these episodes

810
00:37:58,545 --> 00:38:01,345
and the more I think about everything

811
00:38:01,425 --> 00:38:04,281
we're shown. I'm a good

812
00:38:04,353 --> 00:38:06,793
60, 40 and I'm leaning more

813
00:38:06,849 --> 00:38:09,665
towards, no, she didn't

814
00:38:09,705 --> 00:38:12,521
cast a spell. She didn't do an incantation. But she

815
00:38:12,553 --> 00:38:15,473
did something because there is never

816
00:38:15,529 --> 00:38:17,165
a mention of the father.

817
00:38:18,515 --> 00:38:21,357
there's nothing. And then, and

818
00:38:21,381 --> 00:38:23,705
then I think about it like

819
00:38:24,165 --> 00:38:27,141
Death really wanted Billy

820
00:38:27,213 --> 00:38:28,985
to go because he's an abomination.

821
00:38:29,965 --> 00:38:32,965
We get no indication as

822
00:38:33,005 --> 00:38:35,917
to why, why Nikki had

823
00:38:35,941 --> 00:38:38,778
to die. like we saw,

824
00:38:38,874 --> 00:38:41,610
we quote unquote, saw the birth. He looked

825
00:38:41,650 --> 00:38:44,316
perfectly fine. It was like, what. What has

826
00:38:44,348 --> 00:38:47,284
happened? Or maybe, or maybe it wasn't going

827
00:38:47,292 --> 00:38:50,090
to be fine. And then Death was like,

828
00:38:50,130 --> 00:38:52,794
okay, I'll give you time. But

829
00:38:52,922 --> 00:38:55,866
still there was. It was just, it was weird.

830
00:38:55,938 --> 00:38:58,770
It. And maybe I'm just

831
00:38:58,810 --> 00:39:01,714
playing into what they want you to think, want you to

832
00:39:01,762 --> 00:39:04,602
question, as they clearly have set

833
00:39:04,626 --> 00:39:07,514
up for season two to go find Tommy at

834
00:39:07,522 --> 00:39:09,790
the end of this. But

835
00:39:10,290 --> 00:39:13,154
you're. I just.

836
00:39:13,242 --> 00:39:16,122
And the fact that if we go back to episode eight

837
00:39:16,186 --> 00:39:18,790
for her to get out of the last trial,

838
00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:22,196
she in a way didn't do a

839
00:39:22,228 --> 00:39:24,700
spell or incantation to an

840
00:39:24,740 --> 00:39:26,960
extent. Her own tears,

841
00:39:27,540 --> 00:39:30,436
like, managed to grow, like

842
00:39:30,508 --> 00:39:32,804
create this, this plant.

843
00:39:32,932 --> 00:39:33,895
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

844
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:37,342
>> Sarah : so. And. And she was saying something

845
00:39:37,446 --> 00:39:40,262
about. I forget the exact lines that she

846
00:39:40,286 --> 00:39:43,102
was saying about how she was able to

847
00:39:43,166 --> 00:39:45,998
do that. and that's what ended

848
00:39:46,094 --> 00:39:48,974
that trial. And it was to help with like another thing

849
00:39:49,022 --> 00:39:52,022
that my mind keeps going back to is, is

850
00:39:52,046 --> 00:39:54,726
the locket has a piece of hair in it.

851
00:39:54,918 --> 00:39:57,450
And that is from Nikki.

852
00:39:58,150 --> 00:40:00,518
That hair is very well preserved.

853
00:40:00,694 --> 00:40:03,050
>> Will: Yeah, for sure.

854
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:05,690
>> Sarah : Yeah. And it's just

855
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:09,342
there. And I'm just gonna throw

856
00:40:09,366 --> 00:40:11,742
that. She's also clearly a lesbian,

857
00:40:11,926 --> 00:40:12,650
so.

858
00:40:12,990 --> 00:40:15,782
>> Will: I m mean, yeah. I mean the clearness of this show is

859
00:40:15,806 --> 00:40:17,180
like on, full display.

860
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,632
>> Sarah : Yeah. So I. I

861
00:40:20,696 --> 00:40:23,140
honestly just can't see her with a man.

862
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,528
>> Will: Yeah. So unless you just

863
00:40:26,544 --> 00:40:29,128
had a donor. I mean, you know that that could have happened.

864
00:40:29,184 --> 00:40:31,416
>> Sarah : Well, it was also the

865
00:40:31,448 --> 00:40:32,712
1750s, so.

866
00:40:32,776 --> 00:40:34,300
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

867
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,600
>> Sarah : She. It's not like she traveled to the future for modern

868
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,594
day mission. I need a donor.

869
00:40:40,752 --> 00:40:43,210
>> Will: No, no, no. She's just like. Yeah.

870
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:46,566
I mean. Or. I mean. Or maybe, you know, I mean,

871
00:40:46,638 --> 00:40:49,398
maybe it could have been just an immaculate conception. I

872
00:40:49,414 --> 00:40:51,462
mean, you.

873
00:40:51,526 --> 00:40:54,222
>> Sarah : And maybe that's why this is called the Maiden

874
00:40:54,326 --> 00:40:56,850
mother. M. But. But again,

875
00:40:57,550 --> 00:41:00,390
immaculate conception or not,

876
00:41:00,550 --> 00:41:03,438
does that still mean that the kid is an

877
00:41:03,454 --> 00:41:06,210
abomination? Like I.

878
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:09,718
I like to. I see on one hand how it's

879
00:41:09,774 --> 00:41:12,490
very interesting if it's not. And

880
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:15,414
she did what Wanda

881
00:41:15,462 --> 00:41:18,014
couldn't. But at the same

882
00:41:18,062 --> 00:41:20,942
time, I

883
00:41:20,966 --> 00:41:23,854
don't know if it's. I would. I'm starting to

884
00:41:23,902 --> 00:41:26,862
wonder if it's even better if it's not. And that

885
00:41:26,966 --> 00:41:29,850
both of them did this thing.

886
00:41:30,915 --> 00:41:33,575
because at the end of the day, all they really wanted

887
00:41:34,415 --> 00:41:37,079
was family. And they had so much grief.

888
00:41:37,247 --> 00:41:39,955
I don't know. It's just. It's fascinating.

889
00:41:40,255 --> 00:41:40,620
>> Will: It is.

890
00:41:42,595 --> 00:41:45,547
>> Sarah : The more we really think about it and

891
00:41:45,611 --> 00:41:48,203
like I said, I'm so glad there's a season two

892
00:41:48,379 --> 00:41:50,735
and I'm also glad that,

893
00:41:51,235 --> 00:41:54,067
you know, to go back to last episode or episode

894
00:41:54,131 --> 00:41:56,095
eight, the big fight.

895
00:41:56,835 --> 00:41:58,771
They also killed Agatha.

896
00:41:58,923 --> 00:42:01,739
>> Will: Yeah, they did. Yeah, she went. She. Yeah. Which I

897
00:42:01,747 --> 00:42:02,295
think.

898
00:42:05,165 --> 00:42:08,157
Yeah, yeah, I said, yeah, they killed. They did kill

899
00:42:08,181 --> 00:42:10,773
her. And I think, you know, they. And they. You.

900
00:42:10,869 --> 00:42:13,781
The. I think in the locket wasn't there also like the

901
00:42:13,813 --> 00:42:16,757
dandelion piece too? I mean, they go

902
00:42:16,781 --> 00:42:19,781
back to her because, you know, she went back to her original form which

903
00:42:19,813 --> 00:42:22,741
was, you know, she came of the earth and then she went, you know, after

904
00:42:22,773 --> 00:42:25,425
the kiss of death, she went back to the earth. So,

905
00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:28,842
>> Sarah : Yep. Yeah. And.

906
00:42:29,006 --> 00:42:31,962
And something. So episode

907
00:42:32,026 --> 00:42:34,150
nine is a lot about.

908
00:42:35,570 --> 00:42:37,470
A lot said in the past.

909
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,320
and we get a great montage

910
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,340
sequence of after Nikki dies

911
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,482
of Agatha, like being first

912
00:42:47,546 --> 00:42:50,522
encountered by a witch who wants her to

913
00:42:50,546 --> 00:42:53,154
take her to the road. And then we

914
00:42:53,202 --> 00:42:55,930
see the con play out to the

915
00:42:55,970 --> 00:42:58,946
song. And I kept. And a

916
00:42:58,978 --> 00:43:01,626
thought came to my mind earlier

917
00:43:01,698 --> 00:43:03,470
today that

918
00:43:04,330 --> 00:43:07,266
the very first episode when

919
00:43:07,298 --> 00:43:10,136
we're introduced to want, to Agatha

920
00:43:10,328 --> 00:43:13,184
in Westview, where she was

921
00:43:13,232 --> 00:43:15,384
left, it was her

922
00:43:15,432 --> 00:43:18,352
investigating a murder of a woman

923
00:43:18,456 --> 00:43:21,456
in the woods. And then you see

924
00:43:21,488 --> 00:43:24,472
the black fingers and it's like, oh, that was a

925
00:43:24,496 --> 00:43:26,700
witch. This is a murder. Which.

926
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:28,584
Bravo.

927
00:43:28,752 --> 00:43:31,123
>> Will: Yeah, totally. yep, yep.

928
00:43:31,179 --> 00:43:33,815
>> Sarah : So good. It's just.

929
00:43:34,235 --> 00:43:37,131
I mean, maybe. I don't know when,

930
00:43:37,203 --> 00:43:40,015
but maybe I'll rewatch this season. But

931
00:43:40,355 --> 00:43:42,995
the more I think about it, the more they. They

932
00:43:43,035 --> 00:43:45,931
had so much that they just teased out

933
00:43:46,003 --> 00:43:48,541
in the. One of the

934
00:43:48,573 --> 00:43:51,517
best paced seasons that

935
00:43:51,541 --> 00:43:52,781
I've Scene in a bit.

936
00:43:52,933 --> 00:43:55,861
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And you're

937
00:43:55,893 --> 00:43:58,629
right. And. And it was best paid, one of the best

938
00:43:58,677 --> 00:44:01,125
pace seasons. you know,

939
00:44:01,582 --> 00:44:04,494
one of the things I thought too, as I was watching this episode

940
00:44:04,542 --> 00:44:07,438
was like, you know, you put the origin story of Agatha at

941
00:44:07,454 --> 00:44:08,730
the end of the finale

942
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:13,294
and, And. And seeing how the

943
00:44:13,342 --> 00:44:15,990
song evolved with the con over

944
00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:18,580
time, and Nikki's

945
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:21,516
like, you know, questioning

946
00:44:21,588 --> 00:44:24,420
why, you know, why are we doing this?

947
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:27,160
And questioning, you know, and

948
00:44:27,460 --> 00:44:28,760
then ultimately.

949
00:44:30,670 --> 00:44:33,502
>> Will: Why, you know, her motivations again, like we were

950
00:44:33,526 --> 00:44:36,006
talking about before, is grief and also just

951
00:44:36,038 --> 00:44:38,782
avoidance of, you know,

952
00:44:38,966 --> 00:44:41,884
when she, you know, after Nikki does. She

953
00:44:42,022 --> 00:44:44,792
takes it, you know, each, you know, covenant that

954
00:44:44,816 --> 00:44:47,576
she has. And I'm so. And I see now why they

955
00:44:47,768 --> 00:44:50,760
change. They went back to Agatha all along instead of Agatha,

956
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,688
Coven of Chaos, as far as the title.

957
00:44:53,744 --> 00:44:56,744
Because as I was. I was like, okay. Because every

958
00:44:56,792 --> 00:44:58,940
coven that she had, that she

959
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,088
builds, she, you know, she dropped, takes the power. So she can

960
00:45:02,104 --> 00:45:04,384
just continue to avoid

961
00:45:04,512 --> 00:45:07,300
this. Avoid having to,

962
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:11,050
deal with Nikki's death and

963
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:15,598
even to the place where even after episode eight, she's,

964
00:45:15,654 --> 00:45:18,358
you know, you know, unlike Rio and

965
00:45:18,494 --> 00:45:21,110
Lila and, you know, other people that death

966
00:45:21,150 --> 00:45:23,334
has. Has taken, you know,

967
00:45:23,382 --> 00:45:26,142
Agatha still, figures out a

968
00:45:26,166 --> 00:45:27,290
way to, like,

969
00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:31,318
not die and, you know, becomes a ghost and now

970
00:45:31,334 --> 00:45:34,142
she's in purgatory. So, yeah, it was

971
00:45:34,206 --> 00:45:36,940
a perfect ending. you know, because generally

972
00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:39,892
ghosts. Yeah. So I just really thought that

973
00:45:39,916 --> 00:45:42,764
was just like, it made sense to me how this.

974
00:45:42,852 --> 00:45:45,108
How this. How this first season

975
00:45:45,204 --> 00:45:47,810
ended. because it's just.

976
00:45:48,910 --> 00:45:51,870
Yes, there was. There was growth for Agatha,

977
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:54,726
but at the end of the day, she still. There's still

978
00:45:54,758 --> 00:45:57,662
more for this character to. To do. Even though

979
00:45:57,686 --> 00:46:00,170
she made that sacrifice in episode eight.

980
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,776
>> Sarah : Yeah, because. Because

981
00:46:03,808 --> 00:46:06,656
there's also still more for Billy to

982
00:46:06,688 --> 00:46:08,780
do and

983
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,161
there. And I, What I was going

984
00:46:12,177 --> 00:46:15,105
to say when you brought up the fact that she was able to escape

985
00:46:15,169 --> 00:46:18,025
death again and come back as a witch and

986
00:46:18,049 --> 00:46:20,721
still hold on is. Well, we have to remember,

987
00:46:20,857 --> 00:46:23,665
like Death pointed out to her in

988
00:46:23,689 --> 00:46:26,625
episode eight very early on, she's had the most special

989
00:46:26,689 --> 00:46:29,209
treatment of anyone. So,

990
00:46:29,401 --> 00:46:32,337
like, their relationship has a lot

991
00:46:32,385 --> 00:46:35,385
to do with how.

992
00:46:35,529 --> 00:46:38,508
How Agatha is able to avoid death.

993
00:46:39,033 --> 00:46:42,017
and that's something that they've arguably have held

994
00:46:42,065 --> 00:46:44,865
the back the most on is us, really, because we

995
00:46:44,889 --> 00:46:47,785
never got to see them meet. We didn't get a meet cute. We got

996
00:46:47,809 --> 00:46:49,693
a meet end. Yeah,

997
00:46:50,553 --> 00:46:53,157
we. We got more, but

998
00:46:53,305 --> 00:46:55,953
there's still something there. So it's.

999
00:46:56,373 --> 00:46:59,305
It's they,

1000
00:46:59,369 --> 00:47:00,893
they have definitely

1001
00:47:02,113 --> 00:47:03,253
allowed,

1002
00:47:06,043 --> 00:47:08,823
a continuation while at the same time,

1003
00:47:09,063 --> 00:47:11,527
the, the start and end of a

1004
00:47:11,575 --> 00:47:14,367
chapter that. Where it's like.

1005
00:47:14,415 --> 00:47:17,393
And now we're going to go on to the next chapter. because

1006
00:47:17,433 --> 00:47:19,273
it really was Billy all along.

1007
00:47:19,433 --> 00:47:21,761
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure.

1008
00:47:21,937 --> 00:47:22,653
Yeah.

1009
00:47:23,113 --> 00:47:26,049
>> Sarah : Oh, yeah. I was also gonna say it should have never

1010
00:47:26,121 --> 00:47:29,033
been a covenant of chaos. I like Agatha

1011
00:47:29,073 --> 00:47:31,321
all along because they got the double A's.

1012
00:47:31,457 --> 00:47:34,409
But, but come on, why couldn't it have been

1013
00:47:34,481 --> 00:47:36,769
Agatha? Covenant, covenless

1014
00:47:36,921 --> 00:47:37,613
witch.

1015
00:47:39,873 --> 00:47:42,689
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah,

1016
00:47:42,801 --> 00:47:45,761
yeah. Well, then I would have told us all, like, you know, that would have. I mean,

1017
00:47:45,777 --> 00:47:48,393
it told us so many other things if we had just been paying attention.

1018
00:47:48,473 --> 00:47:50,463
But great.

1019
00:47:50,803 --> 00:47:53,779
>> Sarah : How do you know the number of things they told us

1020
00:47:53,811 --> 00:47:56,587
that we, we are like. Are we the only ones who

1021
00:47:56,715 --> 00:47:59,223
recognize that but didn't really take it in?

1022
00:48:01,563 --> 00:48:04,467
>> Will: Yeah, but like we said last week with this show, I mean, you

1023
00:48:04,475 --> 00:48:07,475
know, it wasn't a show, like what I think you put it best. It's like, it wasn't

1024
00:48:07,499 --> 00:48:09,863
a show that I knew I needed, but I'm glad I got it.

1025
00:48:10,523 --> 00:48:13,523
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I, I'm. I am

1026
00:48:13,563 --> 00:48:16,355
glad. And it. And it. I'm glad that it also

1027
00:48:16,419 --> 00:48:19,083
aired in

1028
00:48:19,203 --> 00:48:21,019
simultaneously with the Penguin.

1029
00:48:21,131 --> 00:48:21,635
>> Will: Yeah.

1030
00:48:21,739 --> 00:48:24,691
>> Sarah : Because for a lot of the things that I just went on

1031
00:48:24,747 --> 00:48:27,120
and on about Agatha, and that

1032
00:48:27,184 --> 00:48:30,048
line, Penguin does the

1033
00:48:30,088 --> 00:48:32,952
same thing in a much, arguably R

1034
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,904
rated way, but a much

1035
00:48:35,936 --> 00:48:38,904
more aggressive way, a darker way. But it

1036
00:48:38,936 --> 00:48:41,708
is still, these two characters

1037
00:48:41,748 --> 00:48:44,724
are very similar, in that extent. And the

1038
00:48:44,756 --> 00:48:47,648
premises of the show are very similar.

1039
00:48:48,113 --> 00:48:50,841
and that leads us into the Penguin episode

1040
00:48:50,897 --> 00:48:53,785
seven, Top Hat. And

1041
00:48:53,889 --> 00:48:56,793
we, Like, I love it.

1042
00:48:57,933 --> 00:49:00,621
Like, I think early on I said I don't want

1043
00:49:00,677 --> 00:49:03,589
flashbacks, but they're choosing the

1044
00:49:03,621 --> 00:49:06,349
right flashbacks and we're not hanging out with them too

1045
00:49:06,381 --> 00:49:09,033
long. Because while I'm

1046
00:49:09,073 --> 00:49:11,561
sitting here trying to figure out the father.

1047
00:49:11,697 --> 00:49:14,649
And we will talk about my theory game because

1048
00:49:14,681 --> 00:49:17,601
I have a new one. I still think it's Rex. I

1049
00:49:17,617 --> 00:49:20,385
still think it's Rex. The child

1050
00:49:20,489 --> 00:49:22,373
actor who plays the Penguin

1051
00:49:22,913 --> 00:49:25,889
looks very much like the actor who

1052
00:49:25,921 --> 00:49:28,733
we saw play Rex and his brothers. Did not.

1053
00:49:31,913 --> 00:49:33,945
I thought that was pretty interesting.

1054
00:49:34,129 --> 00:49:36,921
Yeah. but

1055
00:49:37,057 --> 00:49:39,613
it's not just that they had this flashback

1056
00:49:39,913 --> 00:49:42,881
and we see the family, the nuclear unit

1057
00:49:42,937 --> 00:49:45,737
together, minus the dad, but it's

1058
00:49:45,785 --> 00:49:48,657
also that I had never thought.

1059
00:49:48,745 --> 00:49:51,697
Oh, or question. Like, I didn't really

1060
00:49:51,745 --> 00:49:54,345
think too long and hard about the question of how

1061
00:49:54,369 --> 00:49:57,009
did. How did Oz's brothers actually

1062
00:49:57,081 --> 00:49:57,713
die?

1063
00:49:57,873 --> 00:50:00,641
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, we. I know

1064
00:50:00,657 --> 00:50:03,295
We. We theorized that it has something to do with

1065
00:50:03,319 --> 00:50:06,143
Rex. but, you know. Or we, you

1066
00:50:06,143 --> 00:50:08,929
know, but, we never really, like, went too, too

1067
00:50:08,961 --> 00:50:10,013
deep into that.

1068
00:50:10,873 --> 00:50:13,769
>> Sarah : No, no. And. And, and

1069
00:50:13,801 --> 00:50:15,893
it was a question that

1070
00:50:17,193 --> 00:50:20,121
we got answered. Didn't

1071
00:50:20,137 --> 00:50:21,825
you know we had that question.

1072
00:50:22,009 --> 00:50:23,553
>> Will: Oh, yeah. Did we get it answered?

1073
00:50:23,593 --> 00:50:26,521
>> Sarah : Yeah, we. Yeah, it got. It got

1074
00:50:26,577 --> 00:50:29,135
answered because Oz being

1075
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:31,983
Oz, how old do you think he was?

1076
00:50:32,103 --> 00:50:33,986
Like, are we talking 10?

1077
00:50:34,095 --> 00:50:36,716
>> Will: Yeah, I guess. Older, maybe.

1078
00:50:36,825 --> 00:50:39,743
Maybe 11. Yeah, he's like the middle brother because,

1079
00:50:39,783 --> 00:50:42,239
I mean, Jack's the oldest, clearly, and then Benny was the

1080
00:50:42,271 --> 00:50:45,231
baby, so. Yeah, probably 11, 12 years old, I

1081
00:50:45,247 --> 00:50:46,003
would think.

1082
00:50:46,583 --> 00:50:49,351
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And. And,

1083
00:50:49,407 --> 00:50:52,311
and they go off because Mom's got work to do and

1084
00:50:52,327 --> 00:50:54,865
the boys can't be home, and

1085
00:50:55,049 --> 00:50:57,809
they. And the mom is clearly working for Rex.

1086
00:50:57,961 --> 00:50:58,693
>> Will: Yeah.

1087
00:50:59,153 --> 00:51:02,097
>> Sarah : And when I say working, I mean doing the books. And when I

1088
00:51:02,105 --> 00:51:04,729
say doing the books. Literally doing the books. Okay.

1089
00:51:04,801 --> 00:51:07,569
No, we're not talking about Tell Me Lies or

1090
00:51:07,601 --> 00:51:10,137
Rivals right now. Okay. Even though I do have

1091
00:51:10,185 --> 00:51:12,853
suspicions about. Yeah. Anyways,

1092
00:51:13,663 --> 00:51:15,683
and you.

1093
00:51:17,103 --> 00:51:19,527
You see, moments of the

1094
00:51:19,575 --> 00:51:22,287
Clear. Oz needs to be an only

1095
00:51:22,335 --> 00:51:22,927
child.

1096
00:51:23,095 --> 00:51:23,791
>> Will: Yep.

1097
00:51:23,927 --> 00:51:26,779
>> Sarah : Yep. very

1098
00:51:26,811 --> 00:51:27,383
clear.

1099
00:51:29,643 --> 00:51:32,643
Great. Great casting for the kids.

1100
00:51:32,763 --> 00:51:33,943
Great casting.

1101
00:51:35,243 --> 00:51:38,059
And, and then we

1102
00:51:38,251 --> 00:51:41,075
go back into the tunnels and it's raining

1103
00:51:41,139 --> 00:51:43,603
and, you know, you know what's

1104
00:51:43,723 --> 00:51:46,673
happening. and then,

1105
00:51:47,213 --> 00:51:50,125
I don't know why the oldest thought this was

1106
00:51:50,149 --> 00:51:52,893
a great idea to hide in a location that would

1107
00:51:52,933 --> 00:51:55,869
be even more difficult for Oz to get

1108
00:51:55,901 --> 00:51:58,153
to because of his leg.

1109
00:51:58,738 --> 00:52:00,843
and so Oz being Oz,

1110
00:52:01,583 --> 00:52:04,403
gets upset at that and decides, well,

1111
00:52:04,703 --> 00:52:06,883
if you want to do that, well, then

1112
00:52:07,383 --> 00:52:10,327
I'm going to lock you in there and good luck. In and out, and

1113
00:52:10,375 --> 00:52:11,505
the boys drown.

1114
00:52:11,679 --> 00:52:12,245
>> Will: Yeah.

1115
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:13,997
>> Sarah : Horrible, horrible, horrible.

1116
00:52:14,085 --> 00:52:17,069
>> Will: Yeah. I mean, so a couple

1117
00:52:17,141 --> 00:52:19,433
things before I ask you this question,

1118
00:52:20,403 --> 00:52:22,899
about this. You know, you made a good point about

1119
00:52:22,931 --> 00:52:24,543
the. His

1120
00:52:25,283 --> 00:52:28,278
infirmity. and, and also, you know, because.

1121
00:52:28,778 --> 00:52:31,562
But in the mom. I just love the way they sort of set that

1122
00:52:31,610 --> 00:52:34,065
scene up, with the boys, the brothers

1123
00:52:34,129 --> 00:52:36,821
dynamic, because, you know, she was like,

1124
00:52:36,917 --> 00:52:39,605
encouraging us to get up, go outside and play

1125
00:52:39,709 --> 00:52:42,653
while she was trying to do the books. And then whenever they come

1126
00:52:42,693 --> 00:52:45,189
in, they really, you know,

1127
00:52:45,261 --> 00:52:48,127
whenever, you know, she gets up, they play the zombie games and stuff, and poor

1128
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:50,895
Oz is sitting over there. So again, just sets up all those things

1129
00:52:50,943 --> 00:52:53,119
and it is, again,

1130
00:52:53,215 --> 00:52:56,047
bookends the beginning of

1131
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,885
the series and things that we've Scene throughout. So, you

1132
00:52:58,893 --> 00:53:01,359
know, for me, it was sort of like, you know, with.

1133
00:53:01,415 --> 00:53:04,167
With this episode. And also just

1134
00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:07,127
thinking back over to series and gets to my Question for you.

1135
00:53:07,159 --> 00:53:10,092
Is, is it nature or nurture as far

1136
00:53:10,124 --> 00:53:12,540
as, like, with these

1137
00:53:12,588 --> 00:53:14,886
characters? with Oz,

1138
00:53:14,966 --> 00:53:17,306
Sophia, Vic, but also

1139
00:53:17,966 --> 00:53:20,830
whenever, you know, we know Oz has impulse control issues

1140
00:53:20,878 --> 00:53:23,758
and we saw that again, which I think that's

1141
00:53:23,782 --> 00:53:25,996
just his nature. But,

1142
00:53:27,486 --> 00:53:30,334
do you think he intended to kill his brothers? Or do you think it

1143
00:53:30,350 --> 00:53:32,066
was like one of those things? Like

1144
00:53:33,446 --> 00:53:36,158
he just, like, was just pissed off, you know, fuck him. And

1145
00:53:36,182 --> 00:53:38,934
then, and then, you know, once the rain started

1146
00:53:38,990 --> 00:53:41,814
happening and stuff, and he started watching Top Hat, you

1147
00:53:41,830 --> 00:53:44,786
know, and because of the relationship that he does have with his mother,

1148
00:53:45,246 --> 00:53:47,346
he was sort of like, you know what?

1149
00:53:48,846 --> 00:53:51,810
Really fuck him. Did he think he

1150
00:53:51,858 --> 00:53:54,618
intended to kill him? Or you think it was an accident? Or do you think he came to

1151
00:53:54,642 --> 00:53:57,330
it, you know, while they were sitting there watching Top

1152
00:53:57,378 --> 00:53:58,006
Hat?

1153
00:54:00,506 --> 00:54:02,495
>> Sarah : Oh, the last one for sure.

1154
00:54:02,543 --> 00:54:05,135
>> Will: Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, I

1155
00:54:05,143 --> 00:54:05,647
thought.

1156
00:54:05,799 --> 00:54:08,717
>> Sarah : I think the. The whole looking, back and

1157
00:54:08,749 --> 00:54:11,690
forth at the window kind of

1158
00:54:11,706 --> 00:54:14,634
made it clear, like he was definitely going his mind,

1159
00:54:14,698 --> 00:54:17,664
like, do I say something? Do I not? Do

1160
00:54:17,688 --> 00:54:20,496
I say something? Do I not? But it then just kept going on

1161
00:54:20,544 --> 00:54:22,252
and on and on and on.

1162
00:54:23,742 --> 00:54:26,006
and then I think you also asked nature,

1163
00:54:26,094 --> 00:54:29,022
nurture. Well, what's the

1164
00:54:29,062 --> 00:54:31,552
difference? Like, or, what's like,

1165
00:54:32,732 --> 00:54:35,687
are, we. I guess it's

1166
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,383
hard for me, like, yeah, he came out of the womb that

1167
00:54:38,407 --> 00:54:41,095
way. What does that mean?

1168
00:54:41,263 --> 00:54:44,101
We're all heavily influenced by excellence, experience.

1169
00:54:44,441 --> 00:54:44,921
>> Will: Yeah.

1170
00:54:45,001 --> 00:54:47,901
>> Sarah : And our parents and our family members,

1171
00:54:48,241 --> 00:54:51,129
like, and. And also what we don't see in

1172
00:54:51,145 --> 00:54:53,821
this cold open or haven't really Scene

1173
00:54:54,361 --> 00:54:55,101
is

1174
00:54:57,881 --> 00:55:00,625
I, I will say

1175
00:55:00,753 --> 00:55:02,701
we have yet to be shown

1176
00:55:03,641 --> 00:55:06,086
the, the,

1177
00:55:06,861 --> 00:55:09,025
the influential moment

1178
00:55:09,213 --> 00:55:12,049
where Oz would look

1179
00:55:12,105 --> 00:55:14,513
as an 11 year old, look at

1180
00:55:14,697 --> 00:55:17,193
Rex and see, oh, he's a

1181
00:55:17,217 --> 00:55:20,089
gangster. I understand

1182
00:55:20,185 --> 00:55:22,609
this. We don't know. We haven't been shown

1183
00:55:22,665 --> 00:55:25,577
that, so

1184
00:55:25,609 --> 00:55:28,537
it's hard to say. And I

1185
00:55:28,569 --> 00:55:31,377
understand why you raised the question, because it gets into

1186
00:55:31,449 --> 00:55:34,417
what later happens between Sophia and

1187
00:55:34,449 --> 00:55:37,341
Francis to an extent. And,

1188
00:55:37,676 --> 00:55:40,615
I think part of it is probably

1189
00:55:40,743 --> 00:55:43,407
her influence. But. But we

1190
00:55:43,439 --> 00:55:44,891
also see that

1191
00:55:46,951 --> 00:55:49,831
we don't know when the, the disease

1192
00:55:49,951 --> 00:55:52,371
started with Frances. Right.

1193
00:55:52,831 --> 00:55:55,415
>> Will: No, no. I mean, she. She was just broken

1194
00:55:55,503 --> 00:55:58,351
after losing her boys and it was that.

1195
00:55:58,431 --> 00:56:01,333
>> Sarah : Exactly. So, so did, in

1196
00:56:01,357 --> 00:56:03,813
a way, did that trauma

1197
00:56:03,997 --> 00:56:06,765
trigger this illness? And is that

1198
00:56:06,813 --> 00:56:07,881
also why.

1199
00:56:10,221 --> 00:56:10,336
>> Will: Oz,

1200
00:56:11,046 --> 00:56:13,342
>> Sarah : in the previous episode, was

1201
00:56:13,414 --> 00:56:16,318
so down about being unable to

1202
00:56:16,342 --> 00:56:19,266
help her? Because arguably he

1203
00:56:20,086 --> 00:56:22,478
created her in a way.

1204
00:56:22,662 --> 00:56:25,630
>> Will: Yeah. So, yeah, I love. Yeah. And that's one of

1205
00:56:25,638 --> 00:56:28,558
the things of the series is, you know, they it's like chicken

1206
00:56:28,582 --> 00:56:31,456
or the egg with a lot of these situations

1207
00:56:31,496 --> 00:56:34,440
as far as these characters. But I mean, the through

1208
00:56:34,488 --> 00:56:37,448
line is because Oz does something,

1209
00:56:37,552 --> 00:56:39,716
it's the catalyst for something else.

1210
00:56:40,321 --> 00:56:43,080
whether it's his brothers, whether it's his breaking, you

1211
00:56:43,088 --> 00:56:45,984
know, breaking his mother's spirit. I do like the point.

1212
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,984
I do like that the fact that you did raise a belt. We did. We

1213
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,856
haven't yet. You know, we've. We've Scene things through

1214
00:56:51,896 --> 00:56:54,776
us eyes. And even as far as with

1215
00:56:54,816 --> 00:56:57,458
Rex, I mean, we saw a little bit of it. As far

1216
00:56:57,482 --> 00:56:59,994
as Aussies, Rex is just this

1217
00:57:00,050 --> 00:57:02,970
benevolent figure that, you know, we've heard so much

1218
00:57:03,018 --> 00:57:05,830
about, in the sense that, you

1219
00:57:05,838 --> 00:57:08,146
know, because, you know, Jack saw. Saw

1220
00:57:09,206 --> 00:57:12,181
Rex for who he was. Gangster Oz, ah,

1221
00:57:12,302 --> 00:57:15,302
just happened to still see the guy who like gave Jack the

1222
00:57:15,334 --> 00:57:18,286
$50, has this big. This shiny,

1223
00:57:18,366 --> 00:57:21,334
this shiny car, you know. So Oz still sees him

1224
00:57:21,350 --> 00:57:22,386
as a hero.

1225
00:57:23,806 --> 00:57:26,478
>> Sarah : but he says he's a gangster.

1226
00:57:26,582 --> 00:57:29,382
Like, I know where he got that money from. He's a gangster. So

1227
00:57:29,494 --> 00:57:31,786
he, he says it in a way that doesn't.

1228
00:57:32,326 --> 00:57:33,822
>> Will: But he doesn't know what it means.

1229
00:57:33,894 --> 00:57:36,702
>> Sarah : Yeah, well, no, but what.

1230
00:57:36,734 --> 00:57:39,222
I actually was going to say the opposite. He knows what it

1231
00:57:39,254 --> 00:57:42,174
means. Like it goes back to what what

1232
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:44,638
Francis told. Tells Sophia in the

1233
00:57:44,662 --> 00:57:47,632
episode and what Oz,

1234
00:57:47,774 --> 00:57:50,628
or, or maybe Francis

1235
00:57:50,692 --> 00:57:53,572
even said this to Vic at one point. I forget. But I know I've

1236
00:57:53,604 --> 00:57:56,420
heard a similar conversation before is

1237
00:57:56,468 --> 00:57:59,016
like, you don't understand.

1238
00:57:59,876 --> 00:58:01,972
He got to this point

1239
00:58:02,164 --> 00:58:04,876
because it's not that he was

1240
00:58:04,916 --> 00:58:07,348
born into it, it's not that

1241
00:58:07,452 --> 00:58:10,136
he, he. But he came

1242
00:58:10,176 --> 00:58:13,152
about it in a way where he was able to learn,

1243
00:58:13,224 --> 00:58:15,156
absorb and take advantage.

1244
00:58:15,616 --> 00:58:18,476
Like, so he knows the game

1245
00:58:18,936 --> 00:58:21,696
far better. So. And I. From that remark

1246
00:58:21,776 --> 00:58:24,646
about, Rex at the beginning of being

1247
00:58:24,686 --> 00:58:27,582
a gangster, there was like. And

1248
00:58:27,614 --> 00:58:30,326
that's who I want to be. So, so yeah, there

1249
00:58:30,486 --> 00:58:33,466
you glorify him. But it's, it's just.

1250
00:58:34,926 --> 00:58:37,374
I just view it as like, there's a

1251
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:39,814
familiarity there where

1252
00:58:39,910 --> 00:58:42,718
I like, he doesn't look up to his

1253
00:58:42,742 --> 00:58:45,026
older brother. No, he looks up to Rex.

1254
00:58:45,511 --> 00:58:47,411
and it's got.

1255
00:58:48,351 --> 00:58:51,303
It's hard for me to pin all of that on

1256
00:58:51,367 --> 00:58:54,247
Francis when there's the

1257
00:58:54,279 --> 00:58:56,971
whole mystery of the father. Like,

1258
00:58:57,271 --> 00:59:00,247
why did the father leave? Is it Rex? Who is

1259
00:59:00,279 --> 00:59:03,091
the father if it's not Rex?

1260
00:59:03,911 --> 00:59:06,791
>> Will: I don't think the father's Rex. The more

1261
00:59:06,831 --> 00:59:09,639
we talk about it, I don't think it is. I mean, I think they make it very

1262
00:59:09,695 --> 00:59:12,573
clear that the father, he's an Absent. You know,

1263
00:59:12,597 --> 00:59:14,161
he was clearly an absent father

1264
00:59:14,461 --> 00:59:17,325
beforehand, you know, and he was just,

1265
00:59:17,373 --> 00:59:20,357
you know, because I think there were some. I think Francis may have made some

1266
00:59:20,429 --> 00:59:23,429
mentions about, you know, he had all these dreams and he talked big, but, you

1267
00:59:23,445 --> 00:59:26,351
know, had no action, no, you know, no ambition whatever.

1268
00:59:26,771 --> 00:59:29,271
And, and so, you know,

1269
00:59:29,571 --> 00:59:30,751
at this point,

1270
00:59:32,571 --> 00:59:35,435
the father figure was in, you know,

1271
00:59:35,523 --> 00:59:38,507
for, for the family was. At least for Oz was.

1272
00:59:38,619 --> 00:59:41,207
Was Rex. I mean, Jackson. No, I don't think so

1273
00:59:41,239 --> 00:59:41,811
much.

1274
00:59:44,341 --> 00:59:46,973
>> Sarah : That just makes me question why. Why did

1275
00:59:46,997 --> 00:59:49,605
that affect Oz in that

1276
00:59:49,653 --> 00:59:52,365
way and not the other two,

1277
00:59:52,533 --> 00:59:55,069
like, especially the older one,

1278
00:59:55,205 --> 00:59:58,085
because they all don't have the dad around and,

1279
00:59:58,173 --> 01:00:00,653
and we never find out his own

1280
01:00:00,717 --> 01:00:03,221
disability. But I don't know.

1281
01:00:03,341 --> 01:00:06,221
So, yeah,

1282
01:00:07,401 --> 01:00:10,313
this is me not knowing where to go to next because

1283
01:00:10,337 --> 01:00:11,781
I feel like we've drowned.

1284
01:00:13,041 --> 01:00:15,801
>> Will: No, no, no, no. I mean, no, I think that, I mean, that cold

1285
01:00:15,841 --> 01:00:18,697
open just has so many, so many levels to it. That

1286
01:00:18,729 --> 01:00:21,537
does color, I think, you know, it does color

1287
01:00:21,649 --> 01:00:24,489
this, this character. But also, like, as I mentioned before, it

1288
01:00:24,505 --> 01:00:27,353
gets into this. I think it, you know, really touches on

1289
01:00:27,377 --> 01:00:30,218
the whole thematic, through

1290
01:00:30,242 --> 01:00:32,826
our, through line of this whole series, because we do

1291
01:00:32,866 --> 01:00:35,486
turn, you know, it does set up

1292
01:00:36,186 --> 01:00:38,322
the great scene between

1293
01:00:38,394 --> 01:00:40,766
Sophia and Francis,

1294
01:00:42,356 --> 01:00:45,332
where, you know, where they're,

1295
01:00:45,364 --> 01:00:47,972
they're having their back and forth and, you know, and

1296
01:00:48,004 --> 01:00:50,916
Francis gets in the good line. It's like, you know, you know,

1297
01:00:50,956 --> 01:00:53,732
paraphrasing. But, you know, you know, you could change your name, but

1298
01:00:53,764 --> 01:00:56,684
you're still, you know, you're still a falcon. You know, you

1299
01:00:56,700 --> 01:00:57,396
still who you are.

1300
01:00:57,436 --> 01:00:58,056
>> Sarah : Yeah.

1301
01:00:58,356 --> 01:01:00,808
>> Will: And, you know that, that colors

1302
01:01:00,992 --> 01:01:03,848
Sophia's later interactions with Gia

1303
01:01:03,912 --> 01:01:06,816
whenever they found out that she was possibly

1304
01:01:06,856 --> 01:01:09,316
going to talk to all the police about what really happened.

1305
01:01:10,336 --> 01:01:13,248
>> Sarah : Well, yeah, she went to have a

1306
01:01:13,272 --> 01:01:16,208
similar conversation that her dad would do. So

1307
01:01:16,232 --> 01:01:18,832
it's like, now that that seed has been

1308
01:01:18,864 --> 01:01:21,436
planted of doubt in her head,

1309
01:01:22,016 --> 01:01:24,984
she then does an action that is like, oh,

1310
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:27,942
Francesca was right. Like, and

1311
01:01:27,974 --> 01:01:30,934
my. And she's not. I mean, arguably, in

1312
01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:33,758
my opinion, at the end of the episode, she didn't even change the

1313
01:01:33,782 --> 01:01:35,771
game. Ah,

1314
01:01:36,646 --> 01:01:39,006
I knew that was a bomb. Yeah, I did, too.

1315
01:01:39,086 --> 01:01:40,830
>> Will: Yeah, I did, too. That was, that was my one.

1316
01:01:40,878 --> 01:01:43,166
>> Sarah : Like, no, but

1317
01:01:43,286 --> 01:01:44,046
whatever.

1318
01:01:44,206 --> 01:01:47,174
>> Will: Yeah, I knew it was my. I was like this, this

1319
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:50,126
took that, that, that whole thing with the, with the

1320
01:01:50,166 --> 01:01:52,914
ending there. It bothered me. I had. I, I.

1321
01:01:53,070 --> 01:01:55,786
That was like. For me, that was like. That's probably one of the few

1322
01:01:55,826 --> 01:01:58,246
missteps that this series has taken.

1323
01:01:59,146 --> 01:02:01,610
>> Sarah : It's just, you knew it wasn't. You knew

1324
01:02:01,658 --> 01:02:04,594
it. The scene went on so freaking

1325
01:02:04,690 --> 01:02:07,546
long, and it just.

1326
01:02:07,626 --> 01:02:10,626
It wouldn't make any sense for. For it

1327
01:02:10,666 --> 01:02:13,306
to have been Sophia. Despite the

1328
01:02:13,346 --> 01:02:16,242
doubt, you just. There's no way. You're like, we got

1329
01:02:16,274 --> 01:02:18,834
another episode to go. So. No, yeah,

1330
01:02:18,930 --> 01:02:21,600
yeah. but what. What I did with

1331
01:02:21,678 --> 01:02:24,218
Find hilarious, and love

1332
01:02:24,322 --> 01:02:26,206
was the

1333
01:02:26,986 --> 01:02:29,527
Sal and Oz. because for most of this

1334
01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:31,811
episode, Oz spends it with Sal

1335
01:02:32,391 --> 01:02:35,359
and who is. Wants

1336
01:02:35,415 --> 01:02:37,615
to kill him with his own two

1337
01:02:37,663 --> 01:02:40,471
hands, continues to not be able to

1338
01:02:40,551 --> 01:02:43,287
because of this deal that him and

1339
01:02:43,319 --> 01:02:46,159
Sophia will do that together. Like, he's on a

1340
01:02:46,175 --> 01:02:48,687
leash and he's surrounded by what seems to be

1341
01:02:48,719 --> 01:02:51,247
Sophia's men. Not his own men, but Sophia's

1342
01:02:51,279 --> 01:02:53,443
men. So he

1343
01:02:53,547 --> 01:02:56,472
can't. but. And Oz figures that out

1344
01:02:56,544 --> 01:02:59,528
and then. And then is like, okay, well,

1345
01:02:59,632 --> 01:03:01,720
let me. Let me use that to my

1346
01:03:01,768 --> 01:03:04,662
advantage. and they

1347
01:03:04,694 --> 01:03:07,238
ultimately start to get into fistfight. And

1348
01:03:07,262 --> 01:03:10,198
then you think like, wow, Oz is not gonna make.

1349
01:03:10,262 --> 01:03:13,166
And then. Nope, nope, nope. Because Sal

1350
01:03:13,246 --> 01:03:14,706
has a heart attack.

1351
01:03:16,086 --> 01:03:16,766
>> Will: Yep.

1352
01:03:16,886 --> 01:03:19,734
>> Sarah : I. I started laughing. And

1353
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:22,718
then the moment where Oz is like, no, no,

1354
01:03:22,822 --> 01:03:23,826
you can't.

1355
01:03:26,846 --> 01:03:29,686
You know, that is

1356
01:03:29,726 --> 01:03:31,506
like a classic.

1357
01:03:32,126 --> 01:03:35,118
Okay, We. We clearly have to

1358
01:03:35,142 --> 01:03:36,826
have a way out of the situation,

1359
01:03:37,831 --> 01:03:40,672
that's believable in. In a weird way. It's totally

1360
01:03:40,704 --> 01:03:42,036
believable. It makes all.

1361
01:03:42,336 --> 01:03:45,288
>> Will: Yeah. I mean, they're too old. They're two old guys, like, going at

1362
01:03:45,312 --> 01:03:48,204
it. You know, they set it up early. You know, they set it

1363
01:03:48,220 --> 01:03:51,052
up with our earlier, you know, scenes

1364
01:03:51,084 --> 01:03:53,900
with Sal, you know, having to take the heart, you know, taking the

1365
01:03:53,908 --> 01:03:56,628
blood potion, meds or whatever. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1366
01:03:56,772 --> 01:03:57,332
yeah.

1367
01:03:57,444 --> 01:04:00,296
>> Sarah : And, and, but. But it also.

1368
01:04:01,796 --> 01:04:04,556
I. I think it was also not just done

1369
01:04:04,676 --> 01:04:07,596
for. For. For there

1370
01:04:07,636 --> 01:04:09,461
to be a penultimate confrontation,

1371
01:04:11,636 --> 01:04:14,326
that. That Oz gets his

1372
01:04:14,366 --> 01:04:16,386
way out of it also.

1373
01:04:17,206 --> 01:04:19,826
Because, yes, he won,

1374
01:04:20,366 --> 01:04:23,166
but it wasn't the way he wanted to. Like,

1375
01:04:23,206 --> 01:04:25,822
he beat out, but it wasn't the

1376
01:04:25,854 --> 01:04:28,350
way. He may have the ring now,

1377
01:04:28,438 --> 01:04:31,422
but it's still not. And so

1378
01:04:31,614 --> 01:04:34,422
with. With Oz and his

1379
01:04:34,494 --> 01:04:36,306
whole manifesto

1380
01:04:37,686 --> 01:04:40,181
I. An ego, it,

1381
01:04:40,896 --> 01:04:43,792
it does a lot more for his character to

1382
01:04:43,824 --> 01:04:46,768
be like, yeah, yeah, he's going to come out on top,

1383
01:04:46,832 --> 01:04:49,676
but it's never going to be exactly

1384
01:04:50,136 --> 01:04:53,116
on his circumstances because at the end of the day,

1385
01:04:53,856 --> 01:04:56,356
he's never going to be

1386
01:04:57,936 --> 01:05:00,728
that person who he

1387
01:05:00,752 --> 01:05:03,256
may think he is, he may want to

1388
01:05:03,296 --> 01:05:06,248
be, but it's never going to be him because he's always going to be the

1389
01:05:06,272 --> 01:05:08,540
kid from the east side with the bum leg.

1390
01:05:08,688 --> 01:05:09,172
>> Will: Yep.

1391
01:05:09,244 --> 01:05:12,084
>> Sarah : Like, he can't fix his leg. He can't fix his mom.

1392
01:05:12,180 --> 01:05:13,576
He killed his brothers.

1393
01:05:13,956 --> 01:05:14,428
>> Will: Yep.

1394
01:05:14,492 --> 01:05:17,212
>> Sarah : So it's just. It's. It.

1395
01:05:17,284 --> 01:05:19,476
He. It is fascinating.

1396
01:05:19,636 --> 01:05:20,131
>> Will: It is.

1397
01:05:20,131 --> 01:05:23,090
>> Will: It is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1398
01:05:23,138 --> 01:05:26,098
That. That. I can't add anything more to that. I mean, I think

1399
01:05:26,122 --> 01:05:28,930
that that's what was. That's what made that scene work so.

1400
01:05:28,978 --> 01:05:31,852
So well. because as you

1401
01:05:31,884 --> 01:05:34,826
said that, And.

1402
01:05:34,866 --> 01:05:37,474
Yeah. And so whenever. Yeah, I mean,

1403
01:05:37,610 --> 01:05:40,402
really, as far as the rest of this episode, I mean, I think

1404
01:05:40,434 --> 01:05:43,394
that, you know, with a lot of. Just to turn it

1405
01:05:43,450 --> 01:05:46,286
to the Batman of it all, just for. For a moment,

1406
01:05:46,826 --> 01:05:49,754
with, you know, we were joking about the. The bomb

1407
01:05:49,810 --> 01:05:52,658
sequence there and being very predictable. But,

1408
01:05:52,762 --> 01:05:55,154
I mean, now I could. You know, it does.

1409
01:05:55,330 --> 01:05:58,130
Now take this whole. This. This gang

1410
01:05:58,178 --> 01:05:59,686
war that's been going on.

1411
01:06:00,886 --> 01:06:03,798
it does now that the Crown Point has

1412
01:06:03,822 --> 01:06:06,614
a big hole in the middle. I mean, Batman can't

1413
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:09,494
ignore it. So this. I think that's. That. So I

1414
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:12,198
think, you know, moving. Moving ahead to the Batman

1415
01:06:12,262 --> 01:06:15,102
2. And, you know,

1416
01:06:15,294 --> 01:06:17,546
now it makes sense why

1417
01:06:18,246 --> 01:06:21,144
Batman, Penguin. I, assume Sophia is probably going

1418
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,126
to survive, next week.

1419
01:06:24,796 --> 01:06:27,740
Well, you know, why these. Why this gang

1420
01:06:27,788 --> 01:06:29,296
war now gets his attention?

1421
01:06:30,116 --> 01:06:32,176
>> Sarah : You know, I.

1422
01:06:33,316 --> 01:06:35,900
During that sequence, I was not at all thinking

1423
01:06:35,948 --> 01:06:38,732
about the repercussions of the

1424
01:06:38,764 --> 01:06:41,380
hole in Crown's Peak. I was much more

1425
01:06:41,428 --> 01:06:44,394
fixated on, Crown's Point. I

1426
01:06:44,410 --> 01:06:47,166
was much more fixated on the

1427
01:06:49,506 --> 01:06:52,234
parallelism, between the Cold Open

1428
01:06:52,370 --> 01:06:55,268
and that scene. Because, like,

1429
01:06:55,332 --> 01:06:58,180
purposely we're made to believe it was the

1430
01:06:58,228 --> 01:07:01,052
same. Same door that he gets out of. His

1431
01:07:01,084 --> 01:07:03,976
men don't get out of. Just like, with his brothers.

1432
01:07:04,356 --> 01:07:07,096
And then just the. The dust.

1433
01:07:07,596 --> 01:07:10,405
And, the sound design of the whole sequence, it

1434
01:07:10,429 --> 01:07:13,405
reminds me of another explosion that happened

1435
01:07:13,429 --> 01:07:16,125
in a recent thing that I watched that Will did not

1436
01:07:16,189 --> 01:07:18,433
watch Joker 2.

1437
01:07:19,653 --> 01:07:22,652
This is the right way to do it. Not with what

1438
01:07:22,732 --> 01:07:24,396
happens in the Joker too.

1439
01:07:24,564 --> 01:07:25,392
>> Will: Spoiler.

1440
01:07:26,132 --> 01:07:28,352
>> Sarah : Okay, this is how you do it.

1441
01:07:29,078 --> 01:07:31,878
when I tell you. And honestly, I

1442
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:34,854
find it really amusing that you bring up, like,

1443
01:07:34,918 --> 01:07:37,718
with this sequence. Oh, yeah. And now like, of

1444
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:40,598
course, Batman. Because when we're. When you're sitting there watching

1445
01:07:40,630 --> 01:07:42,762
Joker 2 and the bomb comes off,

1446
01:07:43,452 --> 01:07:46,284
you first you're just like, what the fuck? And then you're

1447
01:07:46,308 --> 01:07:49,127
like, okay, is Batman just gonna suddenly

1448
01:07:49,175 --> 01:07:52,167
appear amidst the rumble? Like, he did this?

1449
01:07:52,335 --> 01:07:54,951
Yeah, like, this is the most comic

1450
01:07:55,007 --> 01:07:57,603
book cliche explosion ever.

1451
01:07:57,943 --> 01:08:00,663
Not like this. This was done so well. And then

1452
01:08:00,703 --> 01:08:03,569
what? and then the very next thing, I start to

1453
01:08:03,601 --> 01:08:06,321
laugh. Why did I start to laugh? Because

1454
01:08:06,497 --> 01:08:09,453
he sees a black Guy. And it's like.

1455
01:08:12,663 --> 01:08:15,527
I was just like, that is hilarious

1456
01:08:15,695 --> 01:08:18,283
for so many reasons. And also,

1457
01:08:18,663 --> 01:08:21,271
like, the fact that the number of

1458
01:08:21,327 --> 01:08:23,679
times either Oz or

1459
01:08:23,711 --> 01:08:26,519
myself ask throughout this episode,

1460
01:08:26,591 --> 01:08:27,471
where's Vic?

1461
01:08:27,607 --> 01:08:30,575
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I was thinking that throughout the episode too,

1462
01:08:30,599 --> 01:08:33,335
because, you know, at the very beginning, you know,

1463
01:08:33,519 --> 01:08:36,263
Vic. Vic's concussed after, you know, so he.

1464
01:08:36,303 --> 01:08:39,207
Thankfully, he lived. Yeah, yeah, he lived. You

1465
01:08:39,215 --> 01:08:40,641
know, he didn't get Jason Todd.

1466
01:08:40,807 --> 01:08:43,575
>> Sarah : So, he wasn't in the car. There was a

1467
01:08:43,599 --> 01:08:46,447
bomb. Because there, I will admit, there was a split

1468
01:08:46,495 --> 01:08:49,423
second when he opens the door. I was like, oh, is. Is Vic

1469
01:08:49,463 --> 01:08:50,203
in there?

1470
01:08:50,863 --> 01:08:53,751
>> Will: I thought that as well. I did too, because he's been gone the whole episode.

1471
01:08:53,767 --> 01:08:56,615
But I pointed me that that was. That was a very smart thing that

1472
01:08:56,639 --> 01:08:58,363
they did as far as misdirection,

1473
01:08:59,103 --> 01:09:01,911
>> Sarah : Because now, granted, granted, the way,

1474
01:09:02,007 --> 01:09:04,911
like, they end this with Sophia still has

1475
01:09:04,967 --> 01:09:07,751
Francis and. And

1476
01:09:07,807 --> 01:09:10,583
Oz is. Still has to go

1477
01:09:10,623 --> 01:09:13,271
and find his ma, you're just like, well,

1478
01:09:13,327 --> 01:09:16,023
okay, so we're gonna have another. What was it,

1479
01:09:16,063 --> 01:09:19,023
episode three, where. Where Sophia and

1480
01:09:19,063 --> 01:09:22,015
Oz are at gunpoint and. And then Vic comes

1481
01:09:22,039 --> 01:09:24,503
in with the car and stay like.

1482
01:09:24,663 --> 01:09:27,303
Like they set it up for that kind

1483
01:09:27,343 --> 01:09:30,271
of like we're gonna find out where Vic is

1484
01:09:30,367 --> 01:09:33,279
and he's gonna end because of his remote

1485
01:09:33,351 --> 01:09:36,223
absence. That's going to allow the escape to

1486
01:09:36,263 --> 01:09:38,543
happen. but

1487
01:09:40,043 --> 01:09:42,303
I think they also had to do that

1488
01:09:43,123 --> 01:09:46,003
because there was. There was

1489
01:09:46,043 --> 01:09:48,547
so much that needed to be done with

1490
01:09:48,675 --> 01:09:51,667
Sophia and Francis, Oz.

1491
01:09:51,795 --> 01:09:54,491
Sal and Oz as a little

1492
01:09:54,547 --> 01:09:57,113
boy. Yeah, yeah,

1493
01:09:57,893 --> 01:10:00,813
yeah. That we didn't have time for

1494
01:10:00,853 --> 01:10:02,165
Vic at the moment.

1495
01:10:02,309 --> 01:10:05,213
>> Will: No, no, no, it was. It was. I mean, because I think this is probably

1496
01:10:05,253 --> 01:10:08,245
the shortest runtime for. For all the episodes. I think it's only

1497
01:10:08,269 --> 01:10:11,233
like 46 minutes or something like that. Like that.

1498
01:10:11,733 --> 01:10:14,725
So, yeah, it was. It was a

1499
01:10:14,749 --> 01:10:17,651
packed penultimate episode. but you're right. I mean, they had to

1500
01:10:17,667 --> 01:10:20,667
move all the chess pieces, you know, and. And give a

1501
01:10:20,795 --> 01:10:22,940
answer, to question about what happened to

1502
01:10:24,180 --> 01:10:26,770
Oz's, brothers. But also, you know,

1503
01:10:26,810 --> 01:10:29,482
you. You know, and then they, you know,

1504
01:10:29,506 --> 01:10:32,439
they. They brought back the whole, Because I

1505
01:10:32,447 --> 01:10:35,303
think, you know, didn't they, Oz and his mom

1506
01:10:35,359 --> 01:10:38,031
talk about, you know, going to the little. The nightclub and

1507
01:10:38,063 --> 01:10:40,767
dancing and stuff? So in an earlier episode, so they.

1508
01:10:40,911 --> 01:10:43,775
They showed that scene this episode. And then of course,

1509
01:10:43,815 --> 01:10:46,799
at the end when Sophia, I guess

1510
01:10:46,847 --> 01:10:49,785
Rush was able to like, glean out that

1511
01:10:49,825 --> 01:10:52,415
moment. you know, they take her.

1512
01:10:52,575 --> 01:10:55,135
We see at the episode, they go to that same

1513
01:10:55,175 --> 01:10:57,817
old. Same old spot, for the

1514
01:10:57,841 --> 01:11:00,193
final confrontation that we'll get next week.

1515
01:11:00,369 --> 01:11:03,305
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, we

1516
01:11:03,345 --> 01:11:05,725
will get the final showdown

1517
01:11:06,105 --> 01:11:08,835
next week. and on that

1518
01:11:08,875 --> 01:11:11,275
note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find

1519
01:11:11,315 --> 01:11:11,923
you?

1520
01:11:12,099 --> 01:11:14,867
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on xforming on its

1521
01:11:14,931 --> 01:11:17,734
Twitter at will. And, Polk W I L L M

1522
01:11:17,734 --> 01:11:19,413
M P O L K. And.

1523
01:11:19,421 --> 01:11:22,293
>> Sarah : You can follow me there, too, at S.J. belmont S J B E L

1524
01:11:22,301 --> 01:11:25,157
M O N T. Please follow our crew there at Scene and

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Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at

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scene, underscore n, underscore Nerd, and visit our

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website, www.scenerpodcast.com.

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but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast,

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Spotify, YouTube or wherever. Gear Podcast, Connect. Geek out. You're

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welcome.