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Greetings, nerds! Our dynamic duo, Sarah Belmont and Will Polk are back this week with another exciting episode of Scene N Nerd. They kick …
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Greetings, nerds! Our dynamic duo, Sarah Belmont and Will Polk are back this week with another exciting episode of Scene N Nerd. They kick things off with a lighthearted discussion about Will's Panthers victory and the challenges of keeping up with...

Greetings, nerds! Our dynamic duo, Sarah Belmont and Will Polk are back this week with another exciting episode of Scene N Nerd. They kick things off with a lighthearted discussion about Will's Panthers victory and the challenges of keeping up with games while on the go. Plus Sarah shares her latest TV discovery, "Rivals," a British series on Hulu that caught her attention with its intriguing character dynamics and unexpected storytelling. (0:00)

The conversation then shifts to the "Star Wars: Skeleton Crew" trailer. Will shares his excitement for the series, drawing parallels to "Star Trek: Prodigy" and the nostalgic 80s vibes it brings. (12:44)

Next, Sarah and Will dive into the final two episodes of "Agatha All Along." They discuss the shocking revelations about Billy's role in the story and the clever storytelling that ties everything together. They praise the show's ability to deliver a satisfying and unexpected finale, leaving them eager for a second season. (17:15)

Finally, they break down "The Penguin," episode seven, "Top Hat." Sarah and Will analyze the complex family dynamics and the dark turn of events in Oz's past. They discuss the implications of the explosive ending and how it sets the stage for the series finale. (50:03)

Follow our crew on X (formerly Twitter) @SceneNNerd, friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and Threads @scene_n_nerd, and visit our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts!

 

 

Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.

 

Transcript

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>> Sarah : Greetings and nerds. This is Scene and Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont and with me as

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always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Will Polk. How are you doing tonight,

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Will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Happy victory Monday. My Panthers

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won.

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>> Sarah : Because you weren't watching them but you were listening to them on

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the radio.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I think that may be my m, my go to move

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for the rest of the season. I was listening to

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the radio network. I was thinking of coming back from dropping

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my kid off. what was home for the weekend

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and back at college. And Yeah, yeah, I

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think that might be my go to move. Well, they're actually

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playing. Yeah, they're actually playing in Germany this week.

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So for playing against the Planet Giants. So

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it's going to be an early Sunday morning game for, for me. So it's gonna

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be so like we're bumping the the, our podcast

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recording up tonight to. Due to the election.

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>> Sarah : I, so I did my normal

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Sunday routine of Agatha in the morning

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and Penguin at night.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And I in between I told you I got

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a haircut.

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>> Will: Right.

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>> Sarah : And then I I come home and I'm like,

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okay, so what should I

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randomly throw on? And

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I had Scene. Been seeing clips.

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You know me, I like the

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universe has to be telling me,

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not Will, but the universe has to tell me

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that I need to watch something. So there's

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these clips and I figured out the name of the

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show. I never heard of it. I never seen any

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promotion about this damn show outside of these

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random clips that had come

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up on my for you page on

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online so on

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TikTok mainly. And the show is called

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Rivals. Have you heard about this?

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>> Will: I have.

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>> Sarah : Oh, you have heard about Rivals?

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>> Will: I've heard about it but I haven't watched a single minute of it. but

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I've Scene it like maybe. Yeah,

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same kind of thing where it was just like maybe popped up on my timeline or

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whatever. Didn't really. I mean it just was there.

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But I don't know too much about it.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. So essentially I see

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and I've watched. I haven't finished it. I think it's

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eight episodes long.

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and I think I'm at the start of

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episode four because they're long

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ass episodes in my opinion.

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But it's on Hulu

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and it's British,

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so there are moments when I still

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have my subtitles on because there are moments when I have

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no idea what they're saying. No

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idea. And so

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here's the funny thing. Okay, so rewind and go

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back a little weeks. Every a few weeks, everyone.

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and I told you about a different show on Hulu,

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this little show called Tell Me Lies and how much

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freaking nudity and sex there was.

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>> Will: Right.

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>> Sarah : This is like if I had to

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compare, because this is what really

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caught me off guard about this whole rival

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show. And I'll get to the plot, but

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I just have to say this is

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like if Tell Me Lies was

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centered around middle aged

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British people. Yeah.

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It would be the same show.

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So much sex. So much

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sex and so many. I mean, you have about.

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They did a really good job in terms of.

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You have these marriages.

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and it becomes very clear in the

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first two episodes, maybe even the first

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episode alone, that the

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marriages all have their strengths and their

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weaknesses and no, none of them are

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perfect. There's a lot of cheating, there's a lot

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of,

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there's a lot of affairs happening.

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And,

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I just was a little bit shocked

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again by. And I'm not approved.

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But there's something about these TV shows where

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I'm just like, what is Hulu doing right now?

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>> Will: You know, it's funny you bring that up to me. I know there's been a lot of.

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There has been some discussion about

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like, how much sex or lack thereof,

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there has been in some recent

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productions and shows and stuff. But it sounds like you

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stumbled upon two years recently. That, doesn't

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seem to be the case.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, but. And what I will say

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though, that especially because

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comparing Tell Me Lies to

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Rivals is that

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Tell Me Lies, there's a lot of sex scenes,

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but the sex scenes aren't really

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in a way connected to, explaining

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the relationship. Okay.

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>> Will: Okay.

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>> Sarah : Between two characters. What I thought was,

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was interesting, was there was

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a whole montage of. And I'm, and

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I'm being serious about sex scenes. Like you

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saw at the end, I think, of episode one, you

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see flashes of each couple,

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or, or, or what you think

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will be a couple, and turns out someone's having an affair.

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And, but you can tell

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why the relationship is

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the way it is just based

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on the sexual positions and how,

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each character is

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behaving in that. Which I had never Scene done

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before. And I was like, okay, that's an interesting way

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to, Because it, paints a

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picture of honesty, about it. And it's not

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necessarily just to show nudity or

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a sex scene for the purpose of it. No,

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this is like what

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honestly, at the core this show is about is about

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these couples who. Or

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this circle of Friends who

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are in their, having these midlife

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crisises and still trying to figure out who they

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are and what love is.

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especially in a very class based

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system like England and

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London in particular, which they do a good job.

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And so this show

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is also set in the 80s, 1980s.

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So that's another reason why I still

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don't really know characters names because it's

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about two.

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Why, how I ended up getting the show reckoned me,

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I'll never know.

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>> Will: Yeah, I was like, so, yeah, what's, what are you watching on your

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algorithm there?

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>> Sarah : I don't know. The, the,

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the rivalry between these two

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people. I know David Tennant plays one of them,

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and is doing a very good job.

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you mentioned last week you watched Jessica Jones

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and his character in Jessica Jones.

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There's a turn at one point with his character on this

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show where you're like, oh, like

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you meet the two main

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protagonists, the Rivals, if

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you say, and one of them

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you like and one of them you don't. And then as

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the slow show progresses,

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I feel as though they purposely start to make

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that change where it's like suddenly like,

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oh, you're not the good guy.

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>> Will: Okay.

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>> Sarah : And you're not like, none of

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these people are good. And again, that's why it

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probably reminds me of Tell Me Lies.

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But it's also how

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they go about navigating

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their own flaws in a way. So

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anyway, long story short, I watched

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Rivals. I'll probably finish it. I'm not

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necessarily recommending it.

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It's very different and like I

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said, I don't really know a lot of the characters

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names. I don't really know

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what this and that. Maybe that's why I do find

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it a bit interesting is because I'm like, hopefully by

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the end of it I'll understand the true rivalry that's

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going on because I've never heard of any of these people.

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Granted it's British and it's, it's

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occurring in the 1980s so way before my

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time.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was looking while you were talking

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about it. I was looking at the, Looking at the IMDb and I was just

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looking at the cast and you know, just to take it, bring it back to.

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Since we are, you know, primarily comic book, TV

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show, podcast. so I actually wanted it. I think

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I know where I remember seeing it now. it was, Nafisa

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Williams. yeah, she was in black like

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lightning. Yeah, yeah, that's. I think I saw it on her

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Instagram page.

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>> Sarah : It took me at Least two or three episodes

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to figure that out because I was suddenly like, okay, it's

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driving me crazy. I know you, I know

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you. Where are you from? And as soon as I looked

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that up, I was like, yep, that makes sense now.

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Like, it's not a very different

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character from what I remember.

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but see,

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the show also reminds me to an

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extent of the morning show.

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And there's another character that

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the Cameron who she plays on

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Rivals reminds me of on that show.

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>> Will: Okay.

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>> Sarah : so, yeah, it's.

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It. Even though it's

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so pun intended, foreign to me,

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there's still this familiarity, whether

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it be her or whether it be like the fact that

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David Tennant is right, in that

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position and at the head.

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or it's just that I watched Tell Me

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Lies and so I'm used to watching a bunch of sex

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crazed, horrible people screw each

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other over, both figuratively and

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literally. So it's just.

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Yeah, yeah. I don't know what is going

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on with Hulu right now, but

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if, if you're suddenly like, I

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need to watch two people having sex. Hulu has

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shows.

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>> Will: Yeah, just, just go, go on your favorite streaming

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platform instead. Instead of having to go on the Internet, you can just do

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right that.

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>> Sarah : I have been keeping track of

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all the shows I've been watching and I've also been

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keeping track of what streaming platform they're

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on. Because I'm curious, by the end of this year,

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if I look at everything,

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where, where did the most.

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What, what, what. What streaming

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platform did I watch the most? And I'm only tracking

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new shows, so rewatch

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is thrown out the window. Or shows from previous

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year. So probably I rewatched the Bear season

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two twice this year. So neither of those

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watches count for, Hulu. But.

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And then also I'm curious, by the end of the

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year, the shows like

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my top five, will they

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be all centered on one platform or will they

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be spread out or will like three beyond one

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and one beyond another and

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then one on the other? So, yeah,

246
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I'm curious about the streaming wars that are happening.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it will be interesting. I was just, I was just working

248
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on our schedule for the, rest of the year and I was

249
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just, I was looking at the, looking at our

250
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December calendar and I was like, oh, man, this

251
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top. because there's not going to be movies this year because I haven't seen

252
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anything. It's going to be very TV heavy list this

253
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year.

254
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>> Sarah : Yeah. And I'm not going to do a, K drama because I.

255
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And we'll talk about it. We'll talk about that. But

256
00:11:59,639 --> 00:12:02,207
there's no, there's no. Nothing about

257
00:12:02,335 --> 00:12:05,199
K dramas. But I will. I will explain

258
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why later this year. before we

259
00:12:08,212 --> 00:12:11,124
get into the shows that we have to talk about

260
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and we have a lot to say about, Will wants

261
00:12:14,116 --> 00:12:17,052
me to just mention this. not because I've watched

262
00:12:17,092 --> 00:12:19,927
this, but because he wants me to mention this.

263
00:12:19,877 --> 00:12:22,821
the Star Wars Skeleton Crew trailer number

264
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two is online.

265
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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool.

266
00:12:27,797 --> 00:12:30,597
Very cool. Yeah, I, you know, I threw this on here

267
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usually, you know, it's the.

268
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Well, has she or hasn't she watched this

269
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trailer? And notice I didn't put the Marvel one on there

270
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because I don't think either. I mean, you may have watched it. I know

271
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I have not. as far as the Marvel,

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actually. Okay. Oh, okay, well, see, here we

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go.

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>> Sarah : In my very roundabout way. Yeah,

275
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I have at least

276
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once or twice. Like, maybe. Okay, I

277
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guess. I guess I've watched three quarters of it.

278
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>> Will: Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah, I haven't. I think

279
00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:07,533
maybe. No, I think, whenever I just happened

280
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to retweet it, I saw the first few like, seconds of it and that was about

281
00:13:10,469 --> 00:13:13,371
it. Yeah. ah, but

282
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I did watch the Star wars trailer,

283
00:13:16,264 --> 00:13:19,169
skeleton true Crate 2 trailer. Actually,

284
00:13:19,209 --> 00:13:22,153
what got me to do it, I saw. Well, they did release the poster.

285
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I guess it was maybe Friday. And then, and I

286
00:13:25,171 --> 00:13:28,115
guess the second trailer dropped and actually it was a

287
00:13:28,147 --> 00:13:31,109
reactor. I was actually the first time I did

288
00:13:31,149 --> 00:13:34,053
watch the trailer was just a trailer reaction, just with a YouTuber

289
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that, that I met through, our friends over at A plus.

290
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>> Sarah : Opinions.

291
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>> Will: Opinions, yeah, had had on their Star wars

292
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show, Crystal, ah, Cyber. So, yeah, so I watched

293
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her trailer reaction to it and then I was like, oh, okay.

294
00:13:49,876 --> 00:13:52,772
they had the. The score which

295
00:13:52,804 --> 00:13:55,752
was, you know, made, you know, had the

296
00:13:55,824 --> 00:13:58,629
song Major Tom. It was from the 80s, which of

297
00:13:58,653 --> 00:14:01,485
course this trailer, you know, if you saw the first trailer and

298
00:14:01,501 --> 00:14:04,149
now the second trailer definitely has like the whole 80s

299
00:14:04,213 --> 00:14:05,937
Goonies vibe.

300
00:14:07,137 --> 00:14:09,979
and also as far as more recent shows,

301
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I would say it reminded me a lot of Star Trek Prodigy because

302
00:14:13,099 --> 00:14:15,835
there are kids in this

303
00:14:15,891 --> 00:14:18,659
series. And when I saw the second trailer, it

304
00:14:18,683 --> 00:14:21,609
reminded me a lot of the premise that, was behind Star Trek Prodigy,

305
00:14:21,633 --> 00:14:24,469
which is animated show, that just wrapped up a

306
00:14:24,493 --> 00:14:27,365
season two not too long ago. Not sure Netflix is going to

307
00:14:27,381 --> 00:14:30,306
renew it for a season three. I hope they do. But, the. The

308
00:14:30,354 --> 00:14:33,142
two showrunners behind it decided to do another project,

309
00:14:35,052 --> 00:14:37,272
for I think

310
00:14:37,692 --> 00:14:40,646
Disney or somebody else. So, I don't know is that season

311
00:14:40,686 --> 00:14:43,326
two, season three may not happen. Or if it does, it may be

312
00:14:43,446 --> 00:14:46,342
way, way off in the future. But getting back to Star

313
00:14:46,374 --> 00:14:49,182
Wars, I thought it was, you know, I'm looking

314
00:14:49,214 --> 00:14:52,158
forward to this series. I think it's definitely looks like it's going to be

315
00:14:52,182 --> 00:14:55,094
something that's different from, you know, it's clearly set

316
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:57,856
in the Star wars universe. But, you know, definitely had a little meta

317
00:14:57,896 --> 00:15:00,824
moments with all the 80s vibes that's going on. And like I

318
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,564
said, know, using up doing a

319
00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:06,598
song dubbed in, Star wars language, from

320
00:15:06,622 --> 00:15:09,606
the 80s, you know, brought kind of real

321
00:15:09,646 --> 00:15:12,534
world into the Star wars world, which was kind of like, oh,

322
00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:15,534
okay. Which, you know, they do that every now and then. I mean, you know,

323
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:18,462
Han Solo's famous line, see you in hell, Empire Strikes

324
00:15:18,494 --> 00:15:21,382
Back. So, you know, they have those meta moments like

325
00:15:21,414 --> 00:15:24,280
that. But, yeah, it prepared to premieres

326
00:15:24,328 --> 00:15:27,036
December 3rd and I'll have two episodes

327
00:15:27,116 --> 00:15:29,016
to, kick us off. So, there you go.

328
00:15:31,036 --> 00:15:33,620
>> Sarah : I had it. Very interesting that you're going to make me watch

329
00:15:33,668 --> 00:15:36,056
another Star wars show.

330
00:15:38,316 --> 00:15:39,896
>> Will: We always have a choice.

331
00:15:41,276 --> 00:15:43,972
>> Sarah : Did my time with Acolyte. Yeah, yeah.

332
00:15:44,084 --> 00:15:46,620
Don't make promises you can't keep. Well, don't make

333
00:15:46,668 --> 00:15:47,376
promises.

334
00:15:48,876 --> 00:15:51,636
>> Will: Well, I was lucky to have it. You know, holiday break will come right

335
00:15:51,676 --> 00:15:53,708
before we get too deep into.

336
00:15:53,852 --> 00:15:56,632
>> Sarah : I just will point out. I will point out, out like,

337
00:15:56,704 --> 00:15:59,472
I also say that because our

338
00:15:59,544 --> 00:16:02,512
longtime listeners will probably have

339
00:16:02,544 --> 00:16:05,448
probably been keeping notes that so far we have promised

340
00:16:05,512 --> 00:16:08,432
to return to Invincible. Haven't returned to

341
00:16:08,464 --> 00:16:11,088
Invincible. And then up until

342
00:16:11,232 --> 00:16:13,676
we off show decided,

343
00:16:14,446 --> 00:16:17,294
we were fully intended in August for me

344
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:20,222
to finish m watching

345
00:16:20,254 --> 00:16:22,800
the Acolyte. but that never

346
00:16:22,848 --> 00:16:25,832
happened. So. Yeah, funny, funny. Anyway,

347
00:16:25,904 --> 00:16:28,448
but shows that I did

348
00:16:28,552 --> 00:16:31,116
finish watching all the way through.

349
00:16:31,656 --> 00:16:33,796
Let's start with Agatha along

350
00:16:34,296 --> 00:16:37,216
the final two episodes. The first one, episode

351
00:16:37,256 --> 00:16:40,236
eight, Follow me, my friend. The glory at the end,

352
00:16:40,856 --> 00:16:43,432
essentially, this can be summed up. This is the end of the

353
00:16:43,464 --> 00:16:44,916
road and

354
00:16:48,186 --> 00:16:50,866
we talk about this all the time.

355
00:16:50,986 --> 00:16:53,882
Like the shows continue to be

356
00:16:53,914 --> 00:16:56,418
defined by their

357
00:16:56,602 --> 00:16:59,050
ending and arguably

358
00:16:59,138 --> 00:17:00,406
Agatha along

359
00:17:01,826 --> 00:17:04,474
with the last three, four

360
00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:07,386
episodes. So basically half

361
00:17:07,426 --> 00:17:10,314
of the season or a fair amount. And it

362
00:17:10,330 --> 00:17:12,621
did start off strong. Yeah,

363
00:17:13,306 --> 00:17:16,246
it, it demolished

364
00:17:17,626 --> 00:17:20,474
some of the, some of the endings and some of

365
00:17:20,490 --> 00:17:23,338
the seasons that we've received on Disney plus from the

366
00:17:23,362 --> 00:17:25,794
MCU over the last, like, year and a

367
00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:28,807
half. I, mean, this is, this is on, on

368
00:17:28,847 --> 00:17:31,347
par with Loki endings.

369
00:17:32,127 --> 00:17:34,831
because no

370
00:17:34,879 --> 00:17:37,538
one. And, And maybe it's because

371
00:17:37,586 --> 00:17:40,308
I've also very much am looking

372
00:17:40,356 --> 00:17:43,124
at things like, I don't want to hear

373
00:17:43,164 --> 00:17:46,028
people talk about. I don't want to hear a theory spouse. But

374
00:17:46,116 --> 00:17:49,024
I swear, I don't know if this.

375
00:17:49,364 --> 00:17:52,264
What the twist. The ending

376
00:17:52,604 --> 00:17:54,944
was on anyone's bingo card.

377
00:17:56,844 --> 00:17:59,788
>> Will: No, I don't think so. I mean, even though the breadcrumbs are right, if

378
00:17:59,796 --> 00:18:02,700
you're talking about Billy being the one

379
00:18:02,732 --> 00:18:03,724
who conjured up the road.

380
00:18:03,804 --> 00:18:06,644
>> Sarah : About the road. Yeah, the actual road. Because.

381
00:18:06,804 --> 00:18:09,764
Because the whole depth of it all, like. Like that

382
00:18:09,804 --> 00:18:12,388
I put that on storyline,

383
00:18:12,476 --> 00:18:15,164
almost like. Like it's important

384
00:18:15,324 --> 00:18:17,852
for very many reasons, but the

385
00:18:17,908 --> 00:18:20,024
big revelation.

386
00:18:21,164 --> 00:18:23,828
And it's ironic because the show is called Agatha

387
00:18:23,876 --> 00:18:26,604
along, when really, at the end of the day, it was

388
00:18:26,644 --> 00:18:28,324
Billy all along this season.

389
00:18:28,484 --> 00:18:31,356
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. And I love

390
00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:34,332
Agatha's line, too. It's just like you did, you know, you did something

391
00:18:34,388 --> 00:18:37,264
interesting with your powers that your mom did.

392
00:18:39,024 --> 00:18:41,864
>> Sarah : Yeah. And last week

393
00:18:41,904 --> 00:18:44,760
or the other week, when we were talking about the Tower

394
00:18:44,832 --> 00:18:47,616
reversed episode, as I like to call

395
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,004
it, Lilia's, episode,

396
00:18:50,984 --> 00:18:53,616
we talked about how, like, all these breadcrumbs were

397
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,288
there, and. But nobody was paying attention

398
00:18:56,416 --> 00:18:59,040
enough to really have already

399
00:18:59,112 --> 00:19:01,832
put together or those pieces.

400
00:19:01,928 --> 00:19:04,392
And so that's what made this

401
00:19:04,448 --> 00:19:07,400
revelation so much sweeter, is

402
00:19:07,432 --> 00:19:10,277
that, it hits you, and it's like, I see

403
00:19:10,317 --> 00:19:13,021
all the logic. That's amazing.

404
00:19:13,149 --> 00:19:16,061
And. And then it just increases rewatch

405
00:19:16,109 --> 00:19:19,013
ability because people will want to watch the beginning so

406
00:19:19,045 --> 00:19:21,661
they can see everything that they missed,

407
00:19:21,709 --> 00:19:24,657
or things will stand out in a different way.

408
00:19:25,277 --> 00:19:27,977
And it's just, I.

409
00:19:28,677 --> 00:19:31,611
I was. And also on top of it.

410
00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:34,279
On top of it, like,

411
00:19:34,463 --> 00:19:37,359
we're talking about the very end of episode

412
00:19:37,423 --> 00:19:39,907
eight is when Billy returns home

413
00:19:40,327 --> 00:19:43,319
and he looks in his room and all

414
00:19:43,343 --> 00:19:46,311
of the pieces are there, and it's just like. And

415
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,079
then you hear the line from Lilia of saying, you're the

416
00:19:49,103 --> 00:19:52,087
magician and you wanted this,

417
00:19:52,207 --> 00:19:55,103
so you made it happen. But

418
00:19:55,215 --> 00:19:58,095
on top of it, it's just like, okay,

419
00:19:58,151 --> 00:20:00,979
well, that felt like a very, like,

420
00:20:01,043 --> 00:20:03,610
aha. End, of season

421
00:20:03,786 --> 00:20:04,954
cliffhanger.

422
00:20:05,138 --> 00:20:05,714
>> Will: Yeah.

423
00:20:05,818 --> 00:20:08,674
>> Sarah : But they were like,

424
00:20:08,858 --> 00:20:11,634
you probably also. Because I'll admit, I was also

425
00:20:11,698 --> 00:20:14,522
like, wait, wait, can I clarify? So he

426
00:20:14,602 --> 00:20:16,338
made, like, what?

427
00:20:16,450 --> 00:20:17,098
>> Will: Huh?

428
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:19,362
>> Sarah : Like, I needed the final

429
00:20:19,442 --> 00:20:21,742
episode, which

430
00:20:22,122 --> 00:20:24,542
is truly Agatha's episode,

431
00:20:25,082 --> 00:20:27,506
and to really put the pieces all

432
00:20:27,554 --> 00:20:29,482
together because

433
00:20:30,782 --> 00:20:32,802
you're. You're just like,

434
00:20:33,382 --> 00:20:35,438
oh, so now I get it.

435
00:20:35,630 --> 00:20:38,222
So the way they were, like,

436
00:20:38,382 --> 00:20:40,990
the road was a

437
00:20:41,046 --> 00:20:43,947
con for Agatha M.

438
00:20:43,947 --> 00:20:46,214
And it had been

439
00:20:46,358 --> 00:20:48,950
buried the Con

440
00:20:49,046 --> 00:20:51,322
became a myth, became a legend,

441
00:20:51,902 --> 00:20:54,202
and then Billy took that

442
00:20:54,592 --> 00:20:57,352
and made it into a reality. And it's just.

443
00:20:57,432 --> 00:20:59,288
Oh, so well done.

444
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,232
>> Will: So, so well done. Yeah. And one. As soon as I

445
00:21:02,272 --> 00:21:05,002
finished, the episode, both episodes, I was like,

446
00:21:06,062 --> 00:21:08,798
perfect. I'm so glad that they had these

447
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:10,242
dropped back to back.

448
00:21:10,862 --> 00:21:12,317
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

449
00:21:12,317 --> 00:21:14,900
>> Will: because they really, you know, it really was

450
00:21:14,956 --> 00:21:17,388
like, you know, it was. It felt

451
00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:20,014
like a movie

452
00:21:20,078 --> 00:21:22,638
and a complete story.

453
00:21:22,790 --> 00:21:25,614
And the other thing too, that I really,

454
00:21:25,678 --> 00:21:28,670
really enjoyed about it was, you know,

455
00:21:28,726 --> 00:21:31,590
I've got a joke during over the

456
00:21:31,686 --> 00:21:34,230
course of our reviews. Oh, yeah, well, you know, we'll get the

457
00:21:34,246 --> 00:21:36,710
Marvel usual third act and, you know,

458
00:21:36,806 --> 00:21:39,322
fireworks and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

459
00:21:39,702 --> 00:21:42,454
But they didn't do that. I mean, yes, there was a Marvel

460
00:21:42,518 --> 00:21:45,482
third act fight in episode eight, but,

461
00:21:45,582 --> 00:21:48,262
you know, all of it was like,

462
00:21:48,602 --> 00:21:51,298
basically we just saw the flashes when death,

463
00:21:51,370 --> 00:21:53,742
like, threw Billy over into the greenhouse.

464
00:21:54,082 --> 00:21:56,994
So, you know, so we had those

465
00:21:57,098 --> 00:21:59,994
moments, but, you know, but that wasn't the focal point. I mean,

466
00:22:00,018 --> 00:22:02,842
it was all about the story and all about the breadcrumbs and

467
00:22:02,882 --> 00:22:05,222
like, like you said, I mean, it was just

468
00:22:05,562 --> 00:22:06,302
the

469
00:22:08,642 --> 00:22:11,634
really how he conjured things

470
00:22:11,778 --> 00:22:13,832
from, you know, the

471
00:22:14,692 --> 00:22:17,652
ultimate con game that, you know, the Nikon artist that,

472
00:22:17,772 --> 00:22:19,752
that Agatha is,

473
00:22:21,292 --> 00:22:24,188
was m. Just. Was just brilliant stroke.

474
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:27,020
I mean, as far as, like, you know, you know, we're going into

475
00:22:27,076 --> 00:22:29,804
that episode eight, I was like, oh, you

476
00:22:29,828 --> 00:22:32,748
know, we will, we will. You know, I was

477
00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:35,740
anticipating. And I was. I was anticipating the

478
00:22:35,756 --> 00:22:38,652
straight out between Agatha and Death. And I was

479
00:22:38,692 --> 00:22:41,070
thinking like, oh, yeah, we're gonna get a Tommy,

480
00:22:41,246 --> 00:22:44,096
like, show up. I never did. I will

481
00:22:44,136 --> 00:22:46,808
say I never thought Wanda was going to show up because

482
00:22:46,952 --> 00:22:49,896
I think they made this very clear that this is. This is

483
00:22:49,936 --> 00:22:52,520
not Wanda's story. Now it's about. Even though

484
00:22:52,608 --> 00:22:55,176
Juana's presence is there clearly.

485
00:22:55,336 --> 00:22:58,256
But I never. I was

486
00:22:58,376 --> 00:23:01,368
really hoping that they wouldn't go there. And I'm m glad it did

487
00:23:01,392 --> 00:23:04,280
not go there. So. Yeah, I was.

488
00:23:04,408 --> 00:23:05,116
Yes.

489
00:23:06,216 --> 00:23:08,848
>> Sarah : Yeah. I would just like to say that

490
00:23:08,952 --> 00:23:11,560
I never thought we would see

491
00:23:11,608 --> 00:23:13,968
Tommy. I never thought we would see

492
00:23:14,152 --> 00:23:17,080
Wanda or Vision. I don't know why,

493
00:23:17,248 --> 00:23:20,168
but that possibility never happened in

494
00:23:20,192 --> 00:23:22,712
my mind. I thought,

495
00:23:22,904 --> 00:23:25,776
like, in a way, the way

496
00:23:25,816 --> 00:23:27,876
they ended episode eight,

497
00:23:28,696 --> 00:23:31,688
I was just like, oh, my God, we have one

498
00:23:31,712 --> 00:23:33,168
more episode. Thank God.

499
00:23:33,352 --> 00:23:36,264
>> Will: Yeah, me too. It felt

500
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,376
like a finale, Ellie. It really did.

501
00:23:39,436 --> 00:23:42,428
>> Sarah : And that's why, like, I had kind of checked out of the

502
00:23:42,452 --> 00:23:45,207
fight. But at, the same time, the fight,

503
00:23:45,311 --> 00:23:48,263
in my opinion, was so short that it

504
00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:51,103
was perfect. Because you just

505
00:23:51,159 --> 00:23:53,647
needed to get to that point where Agatha

506
00:23:53,711 --> 00:23:54,955
tells him,

507
00:23:56,385 --> 00:23:58,313
she's gonna sacrifice herself.

508
00:23:58,449 --> 00:23:59,165
>> Will: Yeah.

509
00:23:59,585 --> 00:24:02,045
>> Sarah : And. And then there's the double cross.

510
00:24:02,385 --> 00:24:05,169
And you need the double cross. And then you

511
00:24:05,217 --> 00:24:07,553
need that moment of her

512
00:24:07,649 --> 00:24:10,085
actual sacrificing herself,

513
00:24:11,075 --> 00:24:12,775
because of

514
00:24:14,235 --> 00:24:17,195
her, what

515
00:24:17,235 --> 00:24:19,579
she couldn't do for her son, essentially.

516
00:24:19,707 --> 00:24:22,507
And that was the

517
00:24:22,531 --> 00:24:25,019
big moment of the fight. It wasn't

518
00:24:25,067 --> 00:24:27,843
necessarily about the powers and them going

519
00:24:27,899 --> 00:24:30,455
one on one. It was more about that

520
00:24:31,865 --> 00:24:34,457
because. And they set that up at the very beginning of the

521
00:24:34,481 --> 00:24:37,233
episode when you have this very.

522
00:24:37,329 --> 00:24:40,297
What felt like the longest scene in the entire

523
00:24:40,401 --> 00:24:43,299
episode, maybe is

524
00:24:43,427 --> 00:24:46,275
between her and Death and Rio at the very

525
00:24:46,315 --> 00:24:49,059
beginning. And you're getting these hints

526
00:24:49,147 --> 00:24:50,895
about how,

527
00:24:52,395 --> 00:24:55,075
like, why is Death still here? And it's

528
00:24:55,115 --> 00:24:57,681
because. What I found so interesting

529
00:24:57,843 --> 00:25:00,705
is it's because Billy's an abomination

530
00:25:01,685 --> 00:25:04,365
and she wants to remove

531
00:25:04,445 --> 00:25:06,925
him and make sure and

532
00:25:06,965 --> 00:25:09,385
guarantee he can't bring Tommy,

533
00:25:09,685 --> 00:25:12,603
the Tommy, back. And it's

534
00:25:12,619 --> 00:25:15,595
just. I like that. Those were other things. I never thought about

535
00:25:15,635 --> 00:25:18,635
that. I mean, like, I had just naturally assumed

536
00:25:18,755 --> 00:25:20,935
he jumped into somebody's body too.

537
00:25:23,065 --> 00:25:25,721
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And I think that was.

538
00:25:25,913 --> 00:25:27,645
Yeah, I think that was very important.

539
00:25:27,985 --> 00:25:30,665
>> Sarah : That's like Death wanted him

540
00:25:30,785 --> 00:25:31,457
gone.

541
00:25:31,601 --> 00:25:32,170
>> Will: Yeah.

542
00:25:33,405 --> 00:25:36,167
>> Sarah : yeah, but. But sorry, go ahead. I

543
00:25:36,191 --> 00:25:38,263
was rambling a little bit much.

544
00:25:38,439 --> 00:25:41,175
>> Will: No, no, no, no. I was just going to pick up that point about death

545
00:25:41,215 --> 00:25:44,207
wanted him gone and making it very clear that to

546
00:25:44,231 --> 00:25:46,675
Agatha that he had to make the choice,

547
00:25:47,345 --> 00:25:48,525
you know, because,

548
00:25:50,215 --> 00:25:52,715
you know, she, if he, you know, because

549
00:25:53,495 --> 00:25:56,103
if, if, if he, if she just. If, you

550
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,095
know, if Agatha takes him out, then he can just reincarnate himself

551
00:25:59,135 --> 00:26:02,095
and we start his whole thing over again. So they really get to that point

552
00:26:02,135 --> 00:26:05,087
about the abomination. And then the other thing too, that

553
00:26:05,111 --> 00:26:08,079
you were talking about, the fight that, that I just wanted to bring up

554
00:26:08,167 --> 00:26:11,071
what made that scene so

555
00:26:11,143 --> 00:26:13,927
strong and works so well, especially how, you

556
00:26:13,951 --> 00:26:16,580
know, how they built up to it early,

557
00:26:16,844 --> 00:26:19,832
on in the ep. you know, just to

558
00:26:19,848 --> 00:26:22,204
reinforce the points we were talking about with the

559
00:26:22,584 --> 00:26:24,244
Agatha bringing him in

560
00:26:24,864 --> 00:26:27,726
is, and really sets up the. Sets up

561
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:30,318
the second episode as

562
00:26:30,366 --> 00:26:33,054
well is when Billy, like, gets, you know,

563
00:26:33,174 --> 00:26:35,374
gets into Agatha's head and, you know,

564
00:26:35,494 --> 00:26:37,961
questions, is this how, Nic died?

565
00:26:38,701 --> 00:26:39,357
Nikki died?

566
00:26:39,389 --> 00:26:40,041
>> Sarah : Yeah.

567
00:26:40,476 --> 00:26:43,348
>> Will: Because again, that just, you know, I

568
00:26:43,372 --> 00:26:43,936
think.

569
00:26:48,236 --> 00:26:51,068
>> Sarah : Yeah. Oh, sorry. I thought for some reason we had moved on

570
00:26:51,092 --> 00:26:53,940
to episode nine for a moment, but. No. Yeah,

571
00:26:53,988 --> 00:26:56,740
that, that was, that was what allowed her

572
00:26:56,788 --> 00:26:58,916
to actually self sacrifice herself.

573
00:26:59,036 --> 00:27:02,012
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just. Yeah. So I just thought

574
00:27:02,044 --> 00:27:04,932
Those are just really. Just, you know, just to go back to that point earlier,

575
00:27:04,964 --> 00:27:07,868
I didn't get. I just wanted to really, you know,

576
00:27:07,932 --> 00:27:10,356
reinforce why I thought the. The what.

577
00:27:10,436 --> 00:27:12,594
What made this penultimate

578
00:27:12,650 --> 00:27:15,623
episode, just work so on so

579
00:27:15,647 --> 00:27:18,633
many levels. again, it's just all

580
00:27:18,737 --> 00:27:21,537
this is all the character. All the character beats

581
00:27:21,689 --> 00:27:24,609
and. And it really just like, pulls

582
00:27:24,665 --> 00:27:27,417
all those little. All the. All the various threads that we

583
00:27:27,449 --> 00:27:29,833
had all up to in the prior seven

584
00:27:29,897 --> 00:27:32,809
episodes and things that were said, things that

585
00:27:32,825 --> 00:27:35,585
were done. You know, I. I just felt they were all

586
00:27:35,633 --> 00:27:38,471
very satisfying payoffs, in this episode

587
00:27:38,551 --> 00:27:41,295
and to the point where I was just like, wait a minute.

588
00:27:41,463 --> 00:27:44,327
I knew we had one more episode to go, but I was

589
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,159
like, okay, they did all this in episode eight. I mean,

590
00:27:47,215 --> 00:27:50,047
what the. What the hell are they going to do in episode nine?

591
00:27:50,239 --> 00:27:52,927
Because. Yeah, yeah, because, you know, we

592
00:27:52,959 --> 00:27:55,859
also learn about, Jen, you

593
00:27:55,875 --> 00:27:57,791
know, Agatha bonding. Jen.

594
00:27:59,221 --> 00:28:01,453
>> Sarah : that whole thing was just

595
00:28:01,597 --> 00:28:04,105
like, well, well, I

596
00:28:04,233 --> 00:28:07,089
forgot. Or I was just.

597
00:28:07,185 --> 00:28:08,905
I had to make some money.

598
00:28:09,073 --> 00:28:09,781
>> Will: Yeah.

599
00:28:11,081 --> 00:28:13,841
>> Sarah : Oliver. And you really feel for

600
00:28:13,881 --> 00:28:16,537
Jen as she's doing the unbinding

601
00:28:16,689 --> 00:28:18,861
spell. And I feel as though

602
00:28:19,561 --> 00:28:22,177
that scene in particular between

603
00:28:22,329 --> 00:28:24,536
her and Agatha just,

604
00:28:24,905 --> 00:28:25,821
showcases.

605
00:28:28,331 --> 00:28:31,259
Even as early as WandaVision, you could tell

606
00:28:31,315 --> 00:28:33,751
that Kathryn Hahn in this part

607
00:28:34,451 --> 00:28:36,471
just needed more

608
00:28:36,771 --> 00:28:38,511
time because

609
00:28:39,411 --> 00:28:42,107
she walks such a fascinating line

610
00:28:42,179 --> 00:28:44,351
that's very difficult to do of where

611
00:28:44,771 --> 00:28:47,071
you actually like Agatha,

612
00:28:48,171 --> 00:28:51,059
even though, you know, she's a complete

613
00:28:51,155 --> 00:28:53,471
phony con artist bitch.

614
00:28:53,931 --> 00:28:56,656
Like, she. She,

615
00:28:56,606 --> 00:28:58,414
She's not a good person.

616
00:28:58,590 --> 00:28:59,094
>> Will: No.

617
00:28:59,190 --> 00:29:02,186
>> Sarah : But there's also something about her.

618
00:29:02,966 --> 00:29:05,574
Her almost flat out

619
00:29:05,670 --> 00:29:07,666
ownership. Like,

620
00:29:08,301 --> 00:29:10,877
we're like, yeah, I did it, whatever.

621
00:29:10,989 --> 00:29:13,677
Moving on. Like, what do you expect?

622
00:29:13,869 --> 00:29:16,677
That you're just like, okay, well, at least she's not sitting

623
00:29:16,709 --> 00:29:19,361
in here. Denial or.

624
00:29:20,941 --> 00:29:23,191
It's just. It's not like

625
00:29:24,091 --> 00:29:26,907
she's not bad, but she's.

626
00:29:26,979 --> 00:29:29,903
She's not good either. I. Every

627
00:29:29,927 --> 00:29:32,721
time I think about. And, the

628
00:29:32,761 --> 00:29:35,601
anti hero. Do you know. Do you know what the

629
00:29:35,641 --> 00:29:37,741
first thought comes to my mind?

630
00:29:38,601 --> 00:29:39,461
>> Will: Do you?

631
00:29:41,081 --> 00:29:43,706
>> Sarah : Okay. Huh?

632
00:29:43,706 --> 00:29:44,206
Huh?

633
00:29:44,217 --> 00:29:45,785
>> Will: Go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead.

634
00:29:45,913 --> 00:29:48,793
>> Sarah : No, no, no, it's not Yaba Shuge. No, no, no, no. We're

635
00:29:48,817 --> 00:29:51,581
not talking about the Penguin quite yet, but.

636
00:29:51,881 --> 00:29:54,833
No. What. My. My honest to

637
00:29:54,857 --> 00:29:57,737
God first thought is a movie that I don't think neither

638
00:29:57,769 --> 00:30:00,601
of us have Scene, but we've Scene the trailers.

639
00:30:00,681 --> 00:30:02,061
So Black Adam.

640
00:30:05,601 --> 00:30:08,401
Just because I know. I know from people

641
00:30:08,441 --> 00:30:11,425
who watched that movie that they did not do a good

642
00:30:11,473 --> 00:30:14,241
job and he never really was the

643
00:30:14,281 --> 00:30:17,037
bad guy, even though so.

644
00:30:17,189 --> 00:30:19,405
And. But she is, well,

645
00:30:19,493 --> 00:30:22,461
simultaneously not I wouldn't

646
00:30:22,501 --> 00:30:25,213
say being the hero, but being that

647
00:30:25,357 --> 00:30:27,637
our protagonist. So it's just.

648
00:30:27,829 --> 00:30:30,757
It's she. They. They

649
00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:33,001
do such a good job between her performance

650
00:30:33,461 --> 00:30:36,437
because she goes from like brushing it

651
00:30:36,469 --> 00:30:39,165
off to Jen starting the spell.

652
00:30:39,333 --> 00:30:41,821
And the longer it goes on, you see it

653
00:30:41,901 --> 00:30:44,423
through her face like

654
00:30:44,487 --> 00:30:47,127
Agatha's. You see

655
00:30:47,199 --> 00:30:49,091
glimmers of,

656
00:30:49,716 --> 00:30:51,572
Remorse almost.

657
00:30:51,724 --> 00:30:52,268
>> Will: Yeah.

658
00:30:52,372 --> 00:30:55,156
>> Sarah : And then. And then Jen gets her powers and

659
00:30:55,196 --> 00:30:58,140
disappears. And then you have

660
00:30:58,268 --> 00:31:01,236
this moment where you're like, oh, okay, so this is where she's

661
00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:04,084
gonna get Billy to

662
00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:07,124
turn himself over to death. Okay. But no, that doesn't

663
00:31:07,180 --> 00:31:09,920
happen. She actually. They start

664
00:31:09,968 --> 00:31:12,800
to. Let's find Tommy. Let's do this. Let's bring that

665
00:31:12,848 --> 00:31:15,672
Tommy. And this is. Leads

666
00:31:15,704 --> 00:31:18,368
into something that between both episodes, I thought was

667
00:31:18,432 --> 00:31:21,046
really clever. was

668
00:31:23,546 --> 00:31:26,354
Billy is

669
00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:28,762
now more like

670
00:31:28,834 --> 00:31:31,418
Agatha than his own mom.

671
00:31:31,602 --> 00:31:32,406
>> Will: Yep.

672
00:31:34,316 --> 00:31:37,164
>> Sarah : but even maybe that's not right

673
00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:40,028
because there was this little old movie called Doctor

674
00:31:40,052 --> 00:31:42,412
Strange 2 where Wanda went a little

675
00:31:42,444 --> 00:31:45,284
cuckoo. So maybe that's

676
00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:47,256
not completely right. But

677
00:31:47,716 --> 00:31:50,364
there's like

678
00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:53,148
they. And it's not

679
00:31:53,212 --> 00:31:56,016
for better necessarily.

680
00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:57,268
>> Will: No, no.

681
00:31:57,412 --> 00:32:00,068
>> Sarah : She did like the realization that

682
00:32:00,132 --> 00:32:02,932
he's the person who made up the road. Well,

683
00:32:03,044 --> 00:32:05,716
you therefore then killed

684
00:32:05,756 --> 00:32:06,676
Mrs. Hart.

685
00:32:06,796 --> 00:32:07,536
>> Will: Yep.

686
00:32:07,731 --> 00:32:10,418
>> Sarah : which thank God they kept that going with

687
00:32:10,442 --> 00:32:12,766
Agatha not knowing who Sharon was.

688
00:32:15,306 --> 00:32:17,770
My only gripe about this whole

689
00:32:17,818 --> 00:32:20,282
finale is at the end when they make the

690
00:32:20,314 --> 00:32:23,170
memorial and inscribe all the names. They put

691
00:32:23,218 --> 00:32:26,042
Sharon Hart. They should have put the gardener

692
00:32:26,114 --> 00:32:26,846
lady.

693
00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:31,286
Yeah, yeah.

694
00:32:32,066 --> 00:32:33,286
>> Will: The other green witch.

695
00:32:34,206 --> 00:32:37,159
>> Sarah : Yeah. And during them

696
00:32:37,207 --> 00:32:40,207
trying to find Tommy, you suddenly

697
00:32:40,271 --> 00:32:43,175
start to see, see and hear through

698
00:32:43,215 --> 00:32:46,167
Billy, like his hesitation, like, wait

699
00:32:46,191 --> 00:32:48,839
a second. Like there's this

700
00:32:48,887 --> 00:32:51,075
person. He's in trouble.

701
00:32:52,815 --> 00:32:54,475
He's in a bad place.

702
00:32:55,175 --> 00:32:58,167
But he has to die

703
00:32:58,311 --> 00:33:00,675
for my brother to be reborn.

704
00:33:01,255 --> 00:33:03,839
Like, how up is

705
00:33:03,887 --> 00:33:06,743
that? Yeah, that's something coming

706
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:07,795
at all. Either.

707
00:33:09,010 --> 00:33:11,666
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah, that,

708
00:33:11,738 --> 00:33:14,650
that, those, those. Those. Those questions

709
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:17,674
I think is another thing. Reason why this show just really like, just

710
00:33:17,722 --> 00:33:20,350
really resonated with me because it really,

711
00:33:20,770 --> 00:33:23,730
you know, in that moment where Billy is trying to

712
00:33:23,770 --> 00:33:26,578
figure out like, you know, does ask the question, you

713
00:33:26,594 --> 00:33:29,528
know, Michael and his voice. My brother can live. And

714
00:33:29,544 --> 00:33:32,336
then also, you know, he literally does have blood on his hands other

715
00:33:32,368 --> 00:33:35,105
than. Other than chin. But, And

716
00:33:35,185 --> 00:33:37,325
you are. You are right. I mean, I know

717
00:33:37,865 --> 00:33:40,785
it. Yes, Wanda did have her moments in

718
00:33:40,825 --> 00:33:43,793
Doctor Strange too. But I mean, Billy takes it to

719
00:33:43,809 --> 00:33:46,641
the next level as far as just, you know.

720
00:33:46,673 --> 00:33:49,617
Yes, they both. They both have the same thing in con, you know,

721
00:33:49,761 --> 00:33:52,485
with. But I guess, I guess,

722
00:33:53,265 --> 00:33:56,025
I guess in Wanda's case, you know, she conjured up

723
00:33:56,105 --> 00:33:58,561
Westview and the. In the hex, you know, out of

724
00:33:58,593 --> 00:34:01,553
grief, you

725
00:34:01,569 --> 00:34:02,445
know, and I guess.

726
00:34:03,945 --> 00:34:04,713
>> Sarah : Yep.

727
00:34:04,849 --> 00:34:07,601
>> Will: Yeah, Billy did too. Yeah. Billy

728
00:34:07,633 --> 00:34:10,118
also conjured. It was a grief, of

729
00:34:10,238 --> 00:34:13,193
lose. Of,

730
00:34:13,143 --> 00:34:14,787
Losing, you know, losing his brother.

731
00:34:15,767 --> 00:34:18,655
>> Sarah : Yeah. And arguably by the

732
00:34:18,671 --> 00:34:21,547
end of the next episode, we realized that

733
00:34:21,967 --> 00:34:24,831
the whole road, song

734
00:34:24,879 --> 00:34:27,247
and dance, was created out of

735
00:34:27,287 --> 00:34:30,047
grief over Agatha losing

736
00:34:30,207 --> 00:34:31,071
her son.

737
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:32,627
>> Will: Yep. Yeah.

738
00:34:33,247 --> 00:34:36,167
>> Sarah : Like. And then that just takes you back

739
00:34:36,207 --> 00:34:39,095
to anybody who's been watching both

740
00:34:39,271 --> 00:34:42,208
WandaVision and this show. The penultimate episode

741
00:34:42,294 --> 00:34:44,723
of WandaVision where it talks about grief.

742
00:34:44,855 --> 00:34:45,607
>> Will: Yep.

743
00:34:45,672 --> 00:34:48,501
>> Sarah : and love in the. One of the most poetic

744
00:34:48,549 --> 00:34:51,197
conversations ever on screen. So it's

745
00:34:51,237 --> 00:34:54,021
just like, thank God

746
00:34:54,189 --> 00:34:57,053
Jack Schaefer was the showrunner for both

747
00:34:57,085 --> 00:34:59,909
of these shows. And I know,

748
00:34:59,973 --> 00:35:02,933
I know. Vision Quest is quote unquote,

749
00:35:02,965 --> 00:35:05,885
on the horizon. Put her

750
00:35:05,941 --> 00:35:06,817
there, too.

751
00:35:07,197 --> 00:35:10,133
>> Will: Yeah. She should consult with Terry Matalis. I'm

752
00:35:10,165 --> 00:35:13,085
confident that Terry will get it right just seeing the work that

753
00:35:13,101 --> 00:35:15,933
he did with Star Trek Picard Season 3. So I'm not worried

754
00:35:15,965 --> 00:35:17,077
there. Yeah.

755
00:35:17,417 --> 00:35:20,169
>> Sarah : Okay, well, but let her have

756
00:35:20,193 --> 00:35:23,073
some consultation because, I don't know, so

757
00:35:23,105 --> 00:35:26,048
far, she's just a, two for two on this with

758
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,888
these characters. She knows them so well. Or

759
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,896
this. It's not even the characters. It's this world of

760
00:35:31,944 --> 00:35:32,892
Westview.

761
00:35:34,442 --> 00:35:37,074
and I just

762
00:35:37,178 --> 00:35:40,114
like, into episode nine, maiden

763
00:35:40,178 --> 00:35:42,574
Mother come. So

764
00:35:42,718 --> 00:35:45,042
we start off with

765
00:35:45,422 --> 00:35:48,214
the flashback to the literal birth

766
00:35:48,278 --> 00:35:50,942
scene. Another thing that. I don't know what's going

767
00:35:50,982 --> 00:35:53,646
on, but this is, like, between this

768
00:35:53,694 --> 00:35:56,462
show and House of Dragons. I've Scene so many

769
00:35:56,502 --> 00:35:58,966
bursts on TV over the last few

770
00:35:59,014 --> 00:35:59,602
years.

771
00:36:01,222 --> 00:36:03,806
>> Will: Now, granted, this one was a traumatic burst of that.

772
00:36:03,854 --> 00:36:06,819
>> Sarah : Yeah. yeah. This one could have been more

773
00:36:06,859 --> 00:36:09,707
dramatic, but it didn't. It felt more like it

774
00:36:09,723 --> 00:36:12,567
just like. And then she pushed and popped right out.

775
00:36:12,623 --> 00:36:15,099
And like, that's not. Well, whatever.

776
00:36:17,099 --> 00:36:19,279
but it's. It's interesting

777
00:36:19,819 --> 00:36:22,579
the more we talk about these two episodes and

778
00:36:22,659 --> 00:36:25,011
specifically Billy and

779
00:36:25,075 --> 00:36:27,315
Agatha and their

780
00:36:27,427 --> 00:36:29,719
arcs and their

781
00:36:30,179 --> 00:36:32,599
similar motivations. At the end,

782
00:36:35,979 --> 00:36:38,939
Agatha says to Nikki, as

783
00:36:38,979 --> 00:36:41,479
a little, little baby who can't talk back,

784
00:36:42,509 --> 00:36:45,485
I didn't cast a spell or an

785
00:36:45,517 --> 00:36:47,889
incantation. I made you.

786
00:36:48,389 --> 00:36:50,655
I made you. from scratch.

787
00:36:50,807 --> 00:36:51,539
>> Will: Yeah.

788
00:36:53,759 --> 00:36:55,939
>> Sarah : How much do you think that is true?

789
00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:00,559
>> Will: Yeah. You know, whenever she said that,

790
00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:03,471
I. I'm trying to think back to. Because I watched the show on

791
00:37:03,495 --> 00:37:05,499
Halloween, so it's been a few days.

792
00:37:06,919 --> 00:37:09,487
I know what I.

793
00:37:09,663 --> 00:37:12,207
That line stuck out to me, that he

794
00:37:12,223 --> 00:37:14,743
was. That basically, I thought he was a natural

795
00:37:14,791 --> 00:37:17,621
birth. and

796
00:37:17,765 --> 00:37:20,409
so which made

797
00:37:20,829 --> 00:37:22,649
I Think. Which makes

798
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:26,173
the. When

799
00:37:26,301 --> 00:37:29,253
Death comes to take him. I think that that just

800
00:37:29,301 --> 00:37:32,163
adds to the deeper for me,

801
00:37:32,291 --> 00:37:34,359
added a deeper level for like

802
00:37:35,299 --> 00:37:38,199
why he, you know, why Nikki was so special.

803
00:37:38,484 --> 00:37:41,412
and also it shuts up another contrast between her

804
00:37:41,428 --> 00:37:42,344
and Wanda.

805
00:37:44,419 --> 00:37:47,294
>> Will: was really what I think maybe at the real. When I think back,

806
00:37:47,334 --> 00:37:50,329
I think that was the thing that really. That stuck out to me.

807
00:37:50,279 --> 00:37:53,195
whenever she said that when I was watching episode,

808
00:37:54,255 --> 00:37:54,995
I.

809
00:37:55,745 --> 00:37:58,385
>> Sarah : The more I talk about these episodes

810
00:37:58,545 --> 00:38:01,345
and the more I think about everything

811
00:38:01,425 --> 00:38:04,281
we're shown. I'm a good

812
00:38:04,353 --> 00:38:06,793
60, 40 and I'm leaning more

813
00:38:06,849 --> 00:38:09,665
towards, no, she didn't

814
00:38:09,705 --> 00:38:12,521
cast a spell. She didn't do an incantation. But she

815
00:38:12,553 --> 00:38:15,473
did something because there is never

816
00:38:15,529 --> 00:38:17,165
a mention of the father.

817
00:38:18,515 --> 00:38:21,357
there's nothing. And then, and

818
00:38:21,381 --> 00:38:23,705
then I think about it like

819
00:38:24,165 --> 00:38:27,141
Death really wanted Billy

820
00:38:27,213 --> 00:38:28,985
to go because he's an abomination.

821
00:38:29,965 --> 00:38:32,965
We get no indication as

822
00:38:33,005 --> 00:38:35,917
to why, why Nikki had

823
00:38:35,941 --> 00:38:38,778
to die. like we saw,

824
00:38:38,874 --> 00:38:41,610
we quote unquote, saw the birth. He looked

825
00:38:41,650 --> 00:38:44,316
perfectly fine. It was like, what. What has

826
00:38:44,348 --> 00:38:47,284
happened? Or maybe, or maybe it wasn't going

827
00:38:47,292 --> 00:38:50,090
to be fine. And then Death was like,

828
00:38:50,130 --> 00:38:52,794
okay, I'll give you time. But

829
00:38:52,922 --> 00:38:55,866
still there was. It was just, it was weird.

830
00:38:55,938 --> 00:38:58,770
It. And maybe I'm just

831
00:38:58,810 --> 00:39:01,714
playing into what they want you to think, want you to

832
00:39:01,762 --> 00:39:04,602
question, as they clearly have set

833
00:39:04,626 --> 00:39:07,514
up for season two to go find Tommy at

834
00:39:07,522 --> 00:39:09,790
the end of this. But

835
00:39:10,290 --> 00:39:13,154
you're. I just.

836
00:39:13,242 --> 00:39:16,122
And the fact that if we go back to episode eight

837
00:39:16,186 --> 00:39:18,790
for her to get out of the last trial,

838
00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:22,196
she in a way didn't do a

839
00:39:22,228 --> 00:39:24,700
spell or incantation to an

840
00:39:24,740 --> 00:39:26,960
extent. Her own tears,

841
00:39:27,540 --> 00:39:30,436
like, managed to grow, like

842
00:39:30,508 --> 00:39:32,804
create this, this plant.

843
00:39:32,932 --> 00:39:33,895
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

844
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:37,342
>> Sarah : so. And. And she was saying something

845
00:39:37,446 --> 00:39:40,262
about. I forget the exact lines that she

846
00:39:40,286 --> 00:39:43,102
was saying about how she was able to

847
00:39:43,166 --> 00:39:45,998
do that. and that's what ended

848
00:39:46,094 --> 00:39:48,974
that trial. And it was to help with like another thing

849
00:39:49,022 --> 00:39:52,022
that my mind keeps going back to is, is

850
00:39:52,046 --> 00:39:54,726
the locket has a piece of hair in it.

851
00:39:54,918 --> 00:39:57,450
And that is from Nikki.

852
00:39:58,150 --> 00:40:00,518
That hair is very well preserved.

853
00:40:00,694 --> 00:40:03,050
>> Will: Yeah, for sure.

854
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:05,690
>> Sarah : Yeah. And it's just

855
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:09,342
there. And I'm just gonna throw

856
00:40:09,366 --> 00:40:11,742
that. She's also clearly a lesbian,

857
00:40:11,926 --> 00:40:12,650
so.

858
00:40:12,990 --> 00:40:15,782
>> Will: I m mean, yeah. I mean the clearness of this show is

859
00:40:15,806 --> 00:40:17,180
like on, full display.

860
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,632
>> Sarah : Yeah. So I. I

861
00:40:20,696 --> 00:40:23,140
honestly just can't see her with a man.

862
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,528
>> Will: Yeah. So unless you just

863
00:40:26,544 --> 00:40:29,128
had a donor. I mean, you know that that could have happened.

864
00:40:29,184 --> 00:40:31,416
>> Sarah : Well, it was also the

865
00:40:31,448 --> 00:40:32,712
1750s, so.

866
00:40:32,776 --> 00:40:34,300
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

867
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,600
>> Sarah : She. It's not like she traveled to the future for modern

868
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,594
day mission. I need a donor.

869
00:40:40,752 --> 00:40:43,210
>> Will: No, no, no. She's just like. Yeah.

870
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:46,566
I mean. Or. I mean. Or maybe, you know, I mean,

871
00:40:46,638 --> 00:40:49,398
maybe it could have been just an immaculate conception. I

872
00:40:49,414 --> 00:40:51,462
mean, you.

873
00:40:51,526 --> 00:40:54,222
>> Sarah : And maybe that's why this is called the Maiden

874
00:40:54,326 --> 00:40:56,850
mother. M. But. But again,

875
00:40:57,550 --> 00:41:00,390
immaculate conception or not,

876
00:41:00,550 --> 00:41:03,438
does that still mean that the kid is an

877
00:41:03,454 --> 00:41:06,210
abomination? Like I.

878
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:09,718
I like to. I see on one hand how it's

879
00:41:09,774 --> 00:41:12,490
very interesting if it's not. And

880
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:15,414
she did what Wanda

881
00:41:15,462 --> 00:41:18,014
couldn't. But at the same

882
00:41:18,062 --> 00:41:20,942
time, I

883
00:41:20,966 --> 00:41:23,854
don't know if it's. I would. I'm starting to

884
00:41:23,902 --> 00:41:26,862
wonder if it's even better if it's not. And that

885
00:41:26,966 --> 00:41:29,850
both of them did this thing.

886
00:41:30,915 --> 00:41:33,575
because at the end of the day, all they really wanted

887
00:41:34,415 --> 00:41:37,079
was family. And they had so much grief.

888
00:41:37,247 --> 00:41:39,955
I don't know. It's just. It's fascinating.

889
00:41:40,255 --> 00:41:40,620
>> Will: It is.

890
00:41:42,595 --> 00:41:45,547
>> Sarah : The more we really think about it and

891
00:41:45,611 --> 00:41:48,203
like I said, I'm so glad there's a season two

892
00:41:48,379 --> 00:41:50,735
and I'm also glad that,

893
00:41:51,235 --> 00:41:54,067
you know, to go back to last episode or episode

894
00:41:54,131 --> 00:41:56,095
eight, the big fight.

895
00:41:56,835 --> 00:41:58,771
They also killed Agatha.

896
00:41:58,923 --> 00:42:01,739
>> Will: Yeah, they did. Yeah, she went. She. Yeah. Which I

897
00:42:01,747 --> 00:42:02,295
think.

898
00:42:05,165 --> 00:42:08,157
Yeah, yeah, I said, yeah, they killed. They did kill

899
00:42:08,181 --> 00:42:10,773
her. And I think, you know, they. And they. You.

900
00:42:10,869 --> 00:42:13,781
The. I think in the locket wasn't there also like the

901
00:42:13,813 --> 00:42:16,757
dandelion piece too? I mean, they go

902
00:42:16,781 --> 00:42:19,781
back to her because, you know, she went back to her original form which

903
00:42:19,813 --> 00:42:22,741
was, you know, she came of the earth and then she went, you know, after

904
00:42:22,773 --> 00:42:25,425
the kiss of death, she went back to the earth. So,

905
00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:28,842
>> Sarah : Yep. Yeah. And.

906
00:42:29,006 --> 00:42:31,962
And something. So episode

907
00:42:32,026 --> 00:42:34,150
nine is a lot about.

908
00:42:35,570 --> 00:42:37,470
A lot said in the past.

909
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,320
and we get a great montage

910
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,340
sequence of after Nikki dies

911
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,482
of Agatha, like being first

912
00:42:47,546 --> 00:42:50,522
encountered by a witch who wants her to

913
00:42:50,546 --> 00:42:53,154
take her to the road. And then we

914
00:42:53,202 --> 00:42:55,930
see the con play out to the

915
00:42:55,970 --> 00:42:58,946
song. And I kept. And a

916
00:42:58,978 --> 00:43:01,626
thought came to my mind earlier

917
00:43:01,698 --> 00:43:03,470
today that

918
00:43:04,330 --> 00:43:07,266
the very first episode when

919
00:43:07,298 --> 00:43:10,136
we're introduced to want, to Agatha

920
00:43:10,328 --> 00:43:13,184
in Westview, where she was

921
00:43:13,232 --> 00:43:15,384
left, it was her

922
00:43:15,432 --> 00:43:18,352
investigating a murder of a woman

923
00:43:18,456 --> 00:43:21,456
in the woods. And then you see

924
00:43:21,488 --> 00:43:24,472
the black fingers and it's like, oh, that was a

925
00:43:24,496 --> 00:43:26,700
witch. This is a murder. Which.

926
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:28,584
Bravo.

927
00:43:28,752 --> 00:43:31,123
>> Will: Yeah, totally. yep, yep.

928
00:43:31,179 --> 00:43:33,815
>> Sarah : So good. It's just.

929
00:43:34,235 --> 00:43:37,131
I mean, maybe. I don't know when,

930
00:43:37,203 --> 00:43:40,015
but maybe I'll rewatch this season. But

931
00:43:40,355 --> 00:43:42,995
the more I think about it, the more they. They

932
00:43:43,035 --> 00:43:45,931
had so much that they just teased out

933
00:43:46,003 --> 00:43:48,541
in the. One of the

934
00:43:48,573 --> 00:43:51,517
best paced seasons that

935
00:43:51,541 --> 00:43:52,781
I've Scene in a bit.

936
00:43:52,933 --> 00:43:55,861
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And you're

937
00:43:55,893 --> 00:43:58,629
right. And. And it was best paid, one of the best

938
00:43:58,677 --> 00:44:01,125
pace seasons. you know,

939
00:44:01,582 --> 00:44:04,494
one of the things I thought too, as I was watching this episode

940
00:44:04,542 --> 00:44:07,438
was like, you know, you put the origin story of Agatha at

941
00:44:07,454 --> 00:44:08,730
the end of the finale

942
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:13,294
and, And. And seeing how the

943
00:44:13,342 --> 00:44:15,990
song evolved with the con over

944
00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:18,580
time, and Nikki's

945
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:21,516
like, you know, questioning

946
00:44:21,588 --> 00:44:24,420
why, you know, why are we doing this?

947
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:27,160
And questioning, you know, and

948
00:44:27,460 --> 00:44:28,760
then ultimately.

949
00:44:30,670 --> 00:44:33,502
>> Will: Why, you know, her motivations again, like we were

950
00:44:33,526 --> 00:44:36,006
talking about before, is grief and also just

951
00:44:36,038 --> 00:44:38,782
avoidance of, you know,

952
00:44:38,966 --> 00:44:41,884
when she, you know, after Nikki does. She

953
00:44:42,022 --> 00:44:44,792
takes it, you know, each, you know, covenant that

954
00:44:44,816 --> 00:44:47,576
she has. And I'm so. And I see now why they

955
00:44:47,768 --> 00:44:50,760
change. They went back to Agatha all along instead of Agatha,

956
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,688
Coven of Chaos, as far as the title.

957
00:44:53,744 --> 00:44:56,744
Because as I was. I was like, okay. Because every

958
00:44:56,792 --> 00:44:58,940
coven that she had, that she

959
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,088
builds, she, you know, she dropped, takes the power. So she can

960
00:45:02,104 --> 00:45:04,384
just continue to avoid

961
00:45:04,512 --> 00:45:07,300
this. Avoid having to,

962
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:11,050
deal with Nikki's death and

963
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:15,598
even to the place where even after episode eight, she's,

964
00:45:15,654 --> 00:45:18,358
you know, you know, unlike Rio and

965
00:45:18,494 --> 00:45:21,110
Lila and, you know, other people that death

966
00:45:21,150 --> 00:45:23,334
has. Has taken, you know,

967
00:45:23,382 --> 00:45:26,142
Agatha still, figures out a

968
00:45:26,166 --> 00:45:27,290
way to, like,

969
00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:31,318
not die and, you know, becomes a ghost and now

970
00:45:31,334 --> 00:45:34,142
she's in purgatory. So, yeah, it was

971
00:45:34,206 --> 00:45:36,940
a perfect ending. you know, because generally

972
00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:39,892
ghosts. Yeah. So I just really thought that

973
00:45:39,916 --> 00:45:42,764
was just like, it made sense to me how this.

974
00:45:42,852 --> 00:45:45,108
How this. How this first season

975
00:45:45,204 --> 00:45:47,810
ended. because it's just.

976
00:45:48,910 --> 00:45:51,870
Yes, there was. There was growth for Agatha,

977
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:54,726
but at the end of the day, she still. There's still

978
00:45:54,758 --> 00:45:57,662
more for this character to. To do. Even though

979
00:45:57,686 --> 00:46:00,170
she made that sacrifice in episode eight.

980
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,776
>> Sarah : Yeah, because. Because

981
00:46:03,808 --> 00:46:06,656
there's also still more for Billy to

982
00:46:06,688 --> 00:46:08,780
do and

983
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,161
there. And I, What I was going

984
00:46:12,177 --> 00:46:15,105
to say when you brought up the fact that she was able to escape

985
00:46:15,169 --> 00:46:18,025
death again and come back as a witch and

986
00:46:18,049 --> 00:46:20,721
still hold on is. Well, we have to remember,

987
00:46:20,857 --> 00:46:23,665
like Death pointed out to her in

988
00:46:23,689 --> 00:46:26,625
episode eight very early on, she's had the most special

989
00:46:26,689 --> 00:46:29,209
treatment of anyone. So,

990
00:46:29,401 --> 00:46:32,337
like, their relationship has a lot

991
00:46:32,385 --> 00:46:35,385
to do with how.

992
00:46:35,529 --> 00:46:38,508
How Agatha is able to avoid death.

993
00:46:39,033 --> 00:46:42,017
and that's something that they've arguably have held

994
00:46:42,065 --> 00:46:44,865
the back the most on is us, really, because we

995
00:46:44,889 --> 00:46:47,785
never got to see them meet. We didn't get a meet cute. We got

996
00:46:47,809 --> 00:46:49,693
a meet end. Yeah,

997
00:46:50,553 --> 00:46:53,157
we. We got more, but

998
00:46:53,305 --> 00:46:55,953
there's still something there. So it's.

999
00:46:56,373 --> 00:46:59,305
It's they,

1000
00:46:59,369 --> 00:47:00,893
they have definitely

1001
00:47:02,113 --> 00:47:03,253
allowed,

1002
00:47:06,043 --> 00:47:08,823
a continuation while at the same time,

1003
00:47:09,063 --> 00:47:11,527
the, the start and end of a

1004
00:47:11,575 --> 00:47:14,367
chapter that. Where it's like.

1005
00:47:14,415 --> 00:47:17,393
And now we're going to go on to the next chapter. because

1006
00:47:17,433 --> 00:47:19,273
it really was Billy all along.

1007
00:47:19,433 --> 00:47:21,761
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure.

1008
00:47:21,937 --> 00:47:22,653
Yeah.

1009
00:47:23,113 --> 00:47:26,049
>> Sarah : Oh, yeah. I was also gonna say it should have never

1010
00:47:26,121 --> 00:47:29,033
been a covenant of chaos. I like Agatha

1011
00:47:29,073 --> 00:47:31,321
all along because they got the double A's.

1012
00:47:31,457 --> 00:47:34,409
But, but come on, why couldn't it have been

1013
00:47:34,481 --> 00:47:36,769
Agatha? Covenant, covenless

1014
00:47:36,921 --> 00:47:37,613
witch.

1015
00:47:39,873 --> 00:47:42,689
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah,

1016
00:47:42,801 --> 00:47:45,761
yeah. Well, then I would have told us all, like, you know, that would have. I mean,

1017
00:47:45,777 --> 00:47:48,393
it told us so many other things if we had just been paying attention.

1018
00:47:48,473 --> 00:47:50,463
But great.

1019
00:47:50,803 --> 00:47:53,779
>> Sarah : How do you know the number of things they told us

1020
00:47:53,811 --> 00:47:56,587
that we, we are like. Are we the only ones who

1021
00:47:56,715 --> 00:47:59,223
recognize that but didn't really take it in?

1022
00:48:01,563 --> 00:48:04,467
>> Will: Yeah, but like we said last week with this show, I mean, you

1023
00:48:04,475 --> 00:48:07,475
know, it wasn't a show, like what I think you put it best. It's like, it wasn't

1024
00:48:07,499 --> 00:48:09,863
a show that I knew I needed, but I'm glad I got it.

1025
00:48:10,523 --> 00:48:13,523
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I, I'm. I am

1026
00:48:13,563 --> 00:48:16,355
glad. And it. And it. I'm glad that it also

1027
00:48:16,419 --> 00:48:19,083
aired in

1028
00:48:19,203 --> 00:48:21,019
simultaneously with the Penguin.

1029
00:48:21,131 --> 00:48:21,635
>> Will: Yeah.

1030
00:48:21,739 --> 00:48:24,691
>> Sarah : Because for a lot of the things that I just went on

1031
00:48:24,747 --> 00:48:27,120
and on about Agatha, and that

1032
00:48:27,184 --> 00:48:30,048
line, Penguin does the

1033
00:48:30,088 --> 00:48:32,952
same thing in a much, arguably R

1034
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,904
rated way, but a much

1035
00:48:35,936 --> 00:48:38,904
more aggressive way, a darker way. But it

1036
00:48:38,936 --> 00:48:41,708
is still, these two characters

1037
00:48:41,748 --> 00:48:44,724
are very similar, in that extent. And the

1038
00:48:44,756 --> 00:48:47,648
premises of the show are very similar.

1039
00:48:48,113 --> 00:48:50,841
and that leads us into the Penguin episode

1040
00:48:50,897 --> 00:48:53,785
seven, Top Hat. And

1041
00:48:53,889 --> 00:48:56,793
we, Like, I love it.

1042
00:48:57,933 --> 00:49:00,621
Like, I think early on I said I don't want

1043
00:49:00,677 --> 00:49:03,589
flashbacks, but they're choosing the

1044
00:49:03,621 --> 00:49:06,349
right flashbacks and we're not hanging out with them too

1045
00:49:06,381 --> 00:49:09,033
long. Because while I'm

1046
00:49:09,073 --> 00:49:11,561
sitting here trying to figure out the father.

1047
00:49:11,697 --> 00:49:14,649
And we will talk about my theory game because

1048
00:49:14,681 --> 00:49:17,601
I have a new one. I still think it's Rex. I

1049
00:49:17,617 --> 00:49:20,385
still think it's Rex. The child

1050
00:49:20,489 --> 00:49:22,373
actor who plays the Penguin

1051
00:49:22,913 --> 00:49:25,889
looks very much like the actor who

1052
00:49:25,921 --> 00:49:28,733
we saw play Rex and his brothers. Did not.

1053
00:49:31,913 --> 00:49:33,945
I thought that was pretty interesting.

1054
00:49:34,129 --> 00:49:36,921
Yeah. but

1055
00:49:37,057 --> 00:49:39,613
it's not just that they had this flashback

1056
00:49:39,913 --> 00:49:42,881
and we see the family, the nuclear unit

1057
00:49:42,937 --> 00:49:45,737
together, minus the dad, but it's

1058
00:49:45,785 --> 00:49:48,657
also that I had never thought.

1059
00:49:48,745 --> 00:49:51,697
Oh, or question. Like, I didn't really

1060
00:49:51,745 --> 00:49:54,345
think too long and hard about the question of how

1061
00:49:54,369 --> 00:49:57,009
did. How did Oz's brothers actually

1062
00:49:57,081 --> 00:49:57,713
die?

1063
00:49:57,873 --> 00:50:00,641
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, we. I know

1064
00:50:00,657 --> 00:50:03,295
We. We theorized that it has something to do with

1065
00:50:03,319 --> 00:50:06,143
Rex. but, you know. Or we, you

1066
00:50:06,143 --> 00:50:08,929
know, but, we never really, like, went too, too

1067
00:50:08,961 --> 00:50:10,013
deep into that.

1068
00:50:10,873 --> 00:50:13,769
>> Sarah : No, no. And. And, and

1069
00:50:13,801 --> 00:50:15,893
it was a question that

1070
00:50:17,193 --> 00:50:20,121
we got answered. Didn't

1071
00:50:20,137 --> 00:50:21,825
you know we had that question.

1072
00:50:22,009 --> 00:50:23,553
>> Will: Oh, yeah. Did we get it answered?

1073
00:50:23,593 --> 00:50:26,521
>> Sarah : Yeah, we. Yeah, it got. It got

1074
00:50:26,577 --> 00:50:29,135
answered because Oz being

1075
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:31,983
Oz, how old do you think he was?

1076
00:50:32,103 --> 00:50:33,986
Like, are we talking 10?

1077
00:50:34,095 --> 00:50:36,716
>> Will: Yeah, I guess. Older, maybe.

1078
00:50:36,825 --> 00:50:39,743
Maybe 11. Yeah, he's like the middle brother because,

1079
00:50:39,783 --> 00:50:42,239
I mean, Jack's the oldest, clearly, and then Benny was the

1080
00:50:42,271 --> 00:50:45,231
baby, so. Yeah, probably 11, 12 years old, I

1081
00:50:45,247 --> 00:50:46,003
would think.

1082
00:50:46,583 --> 00:50:49,351
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And. And,

1083
00:50:49,407 --> 00:50:52,311
and they go off because Mom's got work to do and

1084
00:50:52,327 --> 00:50:54,865
the boys can't be home, and

1085
00:50:55,049 --> 00:50:57,809
they. And the mom is clearly working for Rex.

1086
00:50:57,961 --> 00:50:58,693
>> Will: Yeah.

1087
00:50:59,153 --> 00:51:02,097
>> Sarah : And when I say working, I mean doing the books. And when I

1088
00:51:02,105 --> 00:51:04,729
say doing the books. Literally doing the books. Okay.

1089
00:51:04,801 --> 00:51:07,569
No, we're not talking about Tell Me Lies or

1090
00:51:07,601 --> 00:51:10,137
Rivals right now. Okay. Even though I do have

1091
00:51:10,185 --> 00:51:12,853
suspicions about. Yeah. Anyways,

1092
00:51:13,663 --> 00:51:15,683
and you.

1093
00:51:17,103 --> 00:51:19,527
You see, moments of the

1094
00:51:19,575 --> 00:51:22,287
Clear. Oz needs to be an only

1095
00:51:22,335 --> 00:51:22,927
child.

1096
00:51:23,095 --> 00:51:23,791
>> Will: Yep.

1097
00:51:23,927 --> 00:51:26,779
>> Sarah : Yep. very

1098
00:51:26,811 --> 00:51:27,383
clear.

1099
00:51:29,643 --> 00:51:32,643
Great. Great casting for the kids.

1100
00:51:32,763 --> 00:51:33,943
Great casting.

1101
00:51:35,243 --> 00:51:38,059
And, and then we

1102
00:51:38,251 --> 00:51:41,075
go back into the tunnels and it's raining

1103
00:51:41,139 --> 00:51:43,603
and, you know, you know what's

1104
00:51:43,723 --> 00:51:46,673
happening. and then,

1105
00:51:47,213 --> 00:51:50,125
I don't know why the oldest thought this was

1106
00:51:50,149 --> 00:51:52,893
a great idea to hide in a location that would

1107
00:51:52,933 --> 00:51:55,869
be even more difficult for Oz to get

1108
00:51:55,901 --> 00:51:58,153
to because of his leg.

1109
00:51:58,738 --> 00:52:00,843
and so Oz being Oz,

1110
00:52:01,583 --> 00:52:04,403
gets upset at that and decides, well,

1111
00:52:04,703 --> 00:52:06,883
if you want to do that, well, then

1112
00:52:07,383 --> 00:52:10,327
I'm going to lock you in there and good luck. In and out, and

1113
00:52:10,375 --> 00:52:11,505
the boys drown.

1114
00:52:11,679 --> 00:52:12,245
>> Will: Yeah.

1115
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:13,997
>> Sarah : Horrible, horrible, horrible.

1116
00:52:14,085 --> 00:52:17,069
>> Will: Yeah. I mean, so a couple

1117
00:52:17,141 --> 00:52:19,433
things before I ask you this question,

1118
00:52:20,403 --> 00:52:22,899
about this. You know, you made a good point about

1119
00:52:22,931 --> 00:52:24,543
the. His

1120
00:52:25,283 --> 00:52:28,278
infirmity. and, and also, you know, because.

1121
00:52:28,778 --> 00:52:31,562
But in the mom. I just love the way they sort of set that

1122
00:52:31,610 --> 00:52:34,065
scene up, with the boys, the brothers

1123
00:52:34,129 --> 00:52:36,821
dynamic, because, you know, she was like,

1124
00:52:36,917 --> 00:52:39,605
encouraging us to get up, go outside and play

1125
00:52:39,709 --> 00:52:42,653
while she was trying to do the books. And then whenever they come

1126
00:52:42,693 --> 00:52:45,189
in, they really, you know,

1127
00:52:45,261 --> 00:52:48,127
whenever, you know, she gets up, they play the zombie games and stuff, and poor

1128
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:50,895
Oz is sitting over there. So again, just sets up all those things

1129
00:52:50,943 --> 00:52:53,119
and it is, again,

1130
00:52:53,215 --> 00:52:56,047
bookends the beginning of

1131
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,885
the series and things that we've Scene throughout. So, you

1132
00:52:58,893 --> 00:53:01,359
know, for me, it was sort of like, you know, with.

1133
00:53:01,415 --> 00:53:04,167
With this episode. And also just

1134
00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:07,127
thinking back over to series and gets to my Question for you.

1135
00:53:07,159 --> 00:53:10,092
Is, is it nature or nurture as far

1136
00:53:10,124 --> 00:53:12,540
as, like, with these

1137
00:53:12,588 --> 00:53:14,886
characters? with Oz,

1138
00:53:14,966 --> 00:53:17,306
Sophia, Vic, but also

1139
00:53:17,966 --> 00:53:20,830
whenever, you know, we know Oz has impulse control issues

1140
00:53:20,878 --> 00:53:23,758
and we saw that again, which I think that's

1141
00:53:23,782 --> 00:53:25,996
just his nature. But,

1142
00:53:27,486 --> 00:53:30,334
do you think he intended to kill his brothers? Or do you think it

1143
00:53:30,350 --> 00:53:32,066
was like one of those things? Like

1144
00:53:33,446 --> 00:53:36,158
he just, like, was just pissed off, you know, fuck him. And

1145
00:53:36,182 --> 00:53:38,934
then, and then, you know, once the rain started

1146
00:53:38,990 --> 00:53:41,814
happening and stuff, and he started watching Top Hat, you

1147
00:53:41,830 --> 00:53:44,786
know, and because of the relationship that he does have with his mother,

1148
00:53:45,246 --> 00:53:47,346
he was sort of like, you know what?

1149
00:53:48,846 --> 00:53:51,810
Really fuck him. Did he think he

1150
00:53:51,858 --> 00:53:54,618
intended to kill him? Or you think it was an accident? Or do you think he came to

1151
00:53:54,642 --> 00:53:57,330
it, you know, while they were sitting there watching Top

1152
00:53:57,378 --> 00:53:58,006
Hat?

1153
00:54:00,506 --> 00:54:02,495
>> Sarah : Oh, the last one for sure.

1154
00:54:02,543 --> 00:54:05,135
>> Will: Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, I

1155
00:54:05,143 --> 00:54:05,647
thought.

1156
00:54:05,799 --> 00:54:08,717
>> Sarah : I think the. The whole looking, back and

1157
00:54:08,749 --> 00:54:11,690
forth at the window kind of

1158
00:54:11,706 --> 00:54:14,634
made it clear, like he was definitely going his mind,

1159
00:54:14,698 --> 00:54:17,664
like, do I say something? Do I not? Do

1160
00:54:17,688 --> 00:54:20,496
I say something? Do I not? But it then just kept going on

1161
00:54:20,544 --> 00:54:22,252
and on and on and on.

1162
00:54:23,742 --> 00:54:26,006
and then I think you also asked nature,

1163
00:54:26,094 --> 00:54:29,022
nurture. Well, what's the

1164
00:54:29,062 --> 00:54:31,552
difference? Like, or, what's like,

1165
00:54:32,732 --> 00:54:35,687
are, we. I guess it's

1166
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,383
hard for me, like, yeah, he came out of the womb that

1167
00:54:38,407 --> 00:54:41,095
way. What does that mean?

1168
00:54:41,263 --> 00:54:44,101
We're all heavily influenced by excellence, experience.

1169
00:54:44,441 --> 00:54:44,921
>> Will: Yeah.

1170
00:54:45,001 --> 00:54:47,901
>> Sarah : And our parents and our family members,

1171
00:54:48,241 --> 00:54:51,129
like, and. And also what we don't see in

1172
00:54:51,145 --> 00:54:53,821
this cold open or haven't really Scene

1173
00:54:54,361 --> 00:54:55,101
is

1174
00:54:57,881 --> 00:55:00,625
I, I will say

1175
00:55:00,753 --> 00:55:02,701
we have yet to be shown

1176
00:55:03,641 --> 00:55:06,086
the, the,

1177
00:55:06,861 --> 00:55:09,025
the influential moment

1178
00:55:09,213 --> 00:55:12,049
where Oz would look

1179
00:55:12,105 --> 00:55:14,513
as an 11 year old, look at

1180
00:55:14,697 --> 00:55:17,193
Rex and see, oh, he's a

1181
00:55:17,217 --> 00:55:20,089
gangster. I understand

1182
00:55:20,185 --> 00:55:22,609
this. We don't know. We haven't been shown

1183
00:55:22,665 --> 00:55:25,577
that, so

1184
00:55:25,609 --> 00:55:28,537
it's hard to say. And I

1185
00:55:28,569 --> 00:55:31,377
understand why you raised the question, because it gets into

1186
00:55:31,449 --> 00:55:34,417
what later happens between Sophia and

1187
00:55:34,449 --> 00:55:37,341
Francis to an extent. And,

1188
00:55:37,676 --> 00:55:40,615
I think part of it is probably

1189
00:55:40,743 --> 00:55:43,407
her influence. But. But we

1190
00:55:43,439 --> 00:55:44,891
also see that

1191
00:55:46,951 --> 00:55:49,831
we don't know when the, the disease

1192
00:55:49,951 --> 00:55:52,371
started with Frances. Right.

1193
00:55:52,831 --> 00:55:55,415
>> Will: No, no. I mean, she. She was just broken

1194
00:55:55,503 --> 00:55:58,351
after losing her boys and it was that.

1195
00:55:58,431 --> 00:56:01,333
>> Sarah : Exactly. So, so did, in

1196
00:56:01,357 --> 00:56:03,813
a way, did that trauma

1197
00:56:03,997 --> 00:56:06,765
trigger this illness? And is that

1198
00:56:06,813 --> 00:56:07,881
also why.

1199
00:56:10,221 --> 00:56:10,336
>> Will: Oz,

1200
00:56:11,046 --> 00:56:13,342
>> Sarah : in the previous episode, was

1201
00:56:13,414 --> 00:56:16,318
so down about being unable to

1202
00:56:16,342 --> 00:56:19,266
help her? Because arguably he

1203
00:56:20,086 --> 00:56:22,478
created her in a way.

1204
00:56:22,662 --> 00:56:25,630
>> Will: Yeah. So, yeah, I love. Yeah. And that's one of

1205
00:56:25,638 --> 00:56:28,558
the things of the series is, you know, they it's like chicken

1206
00:56:28,582 --> 00:56:31,456
or the egg with a lot of these situations

1207
00:56:31,496 --> 00:56:34,440
as far as these characters. But I mean, the through

1208
00:56:34,488 --> 00:56:37,448
line is because Oz does something,

1209
00:56:37,552 --> 00:56:39,716
it's the catalyst for something else.

1210
00:56:40,321 --> 00:56:43,080
whether it's his brothers, whether it's his breaking, you

1211
00:56:43,088 --> 00:56:45,984
know, breaking his mother's spirit. I do like the point.

1212
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,984
I do like that the fact that you did raise a belt. We did. We

1213
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,856
haven't yet. You know, we've. We've Scene things through

1214
00:56:51,896 --> 00:56:54,776
us eyes. And even as far as with

1215
00:56:54,816 --> 00:56:57,458
Rex, I mean, we saw a little bit of it. As far

1216
00:56:57,482 --> 00:56:59,994
as Aussies, Rex is just this

1217
00:57:00,050 --> 00:57:02,970
benevolent figure that, you know, we've heard so much

1218
00:57:03,018 --> 00:57:05,830
about, in the sense that, you

1219
00:57:05,838 --> 00:57:08,146
know, because, you know, Jack saw. Saw

1220
00:57:09,206 --> 00:57:12,181
Rex for who he was. Gangster Oz, ah,

1221
00:57:12,302 --> 00:57:15,302
just happened to still see the guy who like gave Jack the

1222
00:57:15,334 --> 00:57:18,286
$50, has this big. This shiny,

1223
00:57:18,366 --> 00:57:21,334
this shiny car, you know. So Oz still sees him

1224
00:57:21,350 --> 00:57:22,386
as a hero.

1225
00:57:23,806 --> 00:57:26,478
>> Sarah : but he says he's a gangster.

1226
00:57:26,582 --> 00:57:29,382
Like, I know where he got that money from. He's a gangster. So

1227
00:57:29,494 --> 00:57:31,786
he, he says it in a way that doesn't.

1228
00:57:32,326 --> 00:57:33,822
>> Will: But he doesn't know what it means.

1229
00:57:33,894 --> 00:57:36,702
>> Sarah : Yeah, well, no, but what.

1230
00:57:36,734 --> 00:57:39,222
I actually was going to say the opposite. He knows what it

1231
00:57:39,254 --> 00:57:42,174
means. Like it goes back to what what

1232
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:44,638
Francis told. Tells Sophia in the

1233
00:57:44,662 --> 00:57:47,632
episode and what Oz,

1234
00:57:47,774 --> 00:57:50,628
or, or maybe Francis

1235
00:57:50,692 --> 00:57:53,572
even said this to Vic at one point. I forget. But I know I've

1236
00:57:53,604 --> 00:57:56,420
heard a similar conversation before is

1237
00:57:56,468 --> 00:57:59,016
like, you don't understand.

1238
00:57:59,876 --> 00:58:01,972
He got to this point

1239
00:58:02,164 --> 00:58:04,876
because it's not that he was

1240
00:58:04,916 --> 00:58:07,348
born into it, it's not that

1241
00:58:07,452 --> 00:58:10,136
he, he. But he came

1242
00:58:10,176 --> 00:58:13,152
about it in a way where he was able to learn,

1243
00:58:13,224 --> 00:58:15,156
absorb and take advantage.

1244
00:58:15,616 --> 00:58:18,476
Like, so he knows the game

1245
00:58:18,936 --> 00:58:21,696
far better. So. And I. From that remark

1246
00:58:21,776 --> 00:58:24,646
about, Rex at the beginning of being

1247
00:58:24,686 --> 00:58:27,582
a gangster, there was like. And

1248
00:58:27,614 --> 00:58:30,326
that's who I want to be. So, so yeah, there

1249
00:58:30,486 --> 00:58:33,466
you glorify him. But it's, it's just.

1250
00:58:34,926 --> 00:58:37,374
I just view it as like, there's a

1251
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:39,814
familiarity there where

1252
00:58:39,910 --> 00:58:42,718
I like, he doesn't look up to his

1253
00:58:42,742 --> 00:58:45,026
older brother. No, he looks up to Rex.

1254
00:58:45,511 --> 00:58:47,411
and it's got.

1255
00:58:48,351 --> 00:58:51,303
It's hard for me to pin all of that on

1256
00:58:51,367 --> 00:58:54,247
Francis when there's the

1257
00:58:54,279 --> 00:58:56,971
whole mystery of the father. Like,

1258
00:58:57,271 --> 00:59:00,247
why did the father leave? Is it Rex? Who is

1259
00:59:00,279 --> 00:59:03,091
the father if it's not Rex?

1260
00:59:03,911 --> 00:59:06,791
>> Will: I don't think the father's Rex. The more

1261
00:59:06,831 --> 00:59:09,639
we talk about it, I don't think it is. I mean, I think they make it very

1262
00:59:09,695 --> 00:59:12,573
clear that the father, he's an Absent. You know,

1263
00:59:12,597 --> 00:59:14,161
he was clearly an absent father

1264
00:59:14,461 --> 00:59:17,325
beforehand, you know, and he was just,

1265
00:59:17,373 --> 00:59:20,357
you know, because I think there were some. I think Francis may have made some

1266
00:59:20,429 --> 00:59:23,429
mentions about, you know, he had all these dreams and he talked big, but, you

1267
00:59:23,445 --> 00:59:26,351
know, had no action, no, you know, no ambition whatever.

1268
00:59:26,771 --> 00:59:29,271
And, and so, you know,

1269
00:59:29,571 --> 00:59:30,751
at this point,

1270
00:59:32,571 --> 00:59:35,435
the father figure was in, you know,

1271
00:59:35,523 --> 00:59:38,507
for, for the family was. At least for Oz was.

1272
00:59:38,619 --> 00:59:41,207
Was Rex. I mean, Jackson. No, I don't think so

1273
00:59:41,239 --> 00:59:41,811
much.

1274
00:59:44,341 --> 00:59:46,973
>> Sarah : That just makes me question why. Why did

1275
00:59:46,997 --> 00:59:49,605
that affect Oz in that

1276
00:59:49,653 --> 00:59:52,365
way and not the other two,

1277
00:59:52,533 --> 00:59:55,069
like, especially the older one,

1278
00:59:55,205 --> 00:59:58,085
because they all don't have the dad around and,

1279
00:59:58,173 --> 01:00:00,653
and we never find out his own

1280
01:00:00,717 --> 01:00:03,221
disability. But I don't know.

1281
01:00:03,341 --> 01:00:06,221
So, yeah,

1282
01:00:07,401 --> 01:00:10,313
this is me not knowing where to go to next because

1283
01:00:10,337 --> 01:00:11,781
I feel like we've drowned.

1284
01:00:13,041 --> 01:00:15,801
>> Will: No, no, no, no. I mean, no, I think that, I mean, that cold

1285
01:00:15,841 --> 01:00:18,697
open just has so many, so many levels to it. That

1286
01:00:18,729 --> 01:00:21,537
does color, I think, you know, it does color

1287
01:00:21,649 --> 01:00:24,489
this, this character. But also, like, as I mentioned before, it

1288
01:00:24,505 --> 01:00:27,353
gets into this. I think it, you know, really touches on

1289
01:00:27,377 --> 01:00:30,218
the whole thematic, through

1290
01:00:30,242 --> 01:00:32,826
our, through line of this whole series, because we do

1291
01:00:32,866 --> 01:00:35,486
turn, you know, it does set up

1292
01:00:36,186 --> 01:00:38,322
the great scene between

1293
01:00:38,394 --> 01:00:40,766
Sophia and Francis,

1294
01:00:42,356 --> 01:00:45,332
where, you know, where they're,

1295
01:00:45,364 --> 01:00:47,972
they're having their back and forth and, you know, and

1296
01:00:48,004 --> 01:00:50,916
Francis gets in the good line. It's like, you know, you know,

1297
01:00:50,956 --> 01:00:53,732
paraphrasing. But, you know, you know, you could change your name, but

1298
01:00:53,764 --> 01:00:56,684
you're still, you know, you're still a falcon. You know, you

1299
01:00:56,700 --> 01:00:57,396
still who you are.

1300
01:00:57,436 --> 01:00:58,056
>> Sarah : Yeah.

1301
01:00:58,356 --> 01:01:00,808
>> Will: And, you know that, that colors

1302
01:01:00,992 --> 01:01:03,848
Sophia's later interactions with Gia

1303
01:01:03,912 --> 01:01:06,816
whenever they found out that she was possibly

1304
01:01:06,856 --> 01:01:09,316
going to talk to all the police about what really happened.

1305
01:01:10,336 --> 01:01:13,248
>> Sarah : Well, yeah, she went to have a

1306
01:01:13,272 --> 01:01:16,208
similar conversation that her dad would do. So

1307
01:01:16,232 --> 01:01:18,832
it's like, now that that seed has been

1308
01:01:18,864 --> 01:01:21,436
planted of doubt in her head,

1309
01:01:22,016 --> 01:01:24,984
she then does an action that is like, oh,

1310
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:27,942
Francesca was right. Like, and

1311
01:01:27,974 --> 01:01:30,934
my. And she's not. I mean, arguably, in

1312
01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:33,758
my opinion, at the end of the episode, she didn't even change the

1313
01:01:33,782 --> 01:01:35,771
game. Ah,

1314
01:01:36,646 --> 01:01:39,006
I knew that was a bomb. Yeah, I did, too.

1315
01:01:39,086 --> 01:01:40,830
>> Will: Yeah, I did, too. That was, that was my one.

1316
01:01:40,878 --> 01:01:43,166
>> Sarah : Like, no, but

1317
01:01:43,286 --> 01:01:44,046
whatever.

1318
01:01:44,206 --> 01:01:47,174
>> Will: Yeah, I knew it was my. I was like this, this

1319
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:50,126
took that, that, that whole thing with the, with the

1320
01:01:50,166 --> 01:01:52,914
ending there. It bothered me. I had. I, I.

1321
01:01:53,070 --> 01:01:55,786
That was like. For me, that was like. That's probably one of the few

1322
01:01:55,826 --> 01:01:58,246
missteps that this series has taken.

1323
01:01:59,146 --> 01:02:01,610
>> Sarah : It's just, you knew it wasn't. You knew

1324
01:02:01,658 --> 01:02:04,594
it. The scene went on so freaking

1325
01:02:04,690 --> 01:02:07,546
long, and it just.

1326
01:02:07,626 --> 01:02:10,626
It wouldn't make any sense for. For it

1327
01:02:10,666 --> 01:02:13,306
to have been Sophia. Despite the

1328
01:02:13,346 --> 01:02:16,242
doubt, you just. There's no way. You're like, we got

1329
01:02:16,274 --> 01:02:18,834
another episode to go. So. No, yeah,

1330
01:02:18,930 --> 01:02:21,600
yeah. but what. What I did with

1331
01:02:21,678 --> 01:02:24,218
Find hilarious, and love

1332
01:02:24,322 --> 01:02:26,206
was the

1333
01:02:26,986 --> 01:02:29,527
Sal and Oz. because for most of this

1334
01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:31,811
episode, Oz spends it with Sal

1335
01:02:32,391 --> 01:02:35,359
and who is. Wants

1336
01:02:35,415 --> 01:02:37,615
to kill him with his own two

1337
01:02:37,663 --> 01:02:40,471
hands, continues to not be able to

1338
01:02:40,551 --> 01:02:43,287
because of this deal that him and

1339
01:02:43,319 --> 01:02:46,159
Sophia will do that together. Like, he's on a

1340
01:02:46,175 --> 01:02:48,687
leash and he's surrounded by what seems to be

1341
01:02:48,719 --> 01:02:51,247
Sophia's men. Not his own men, but Sophia's

1342
01:02:51,279 --> 01:02:53,443
men. So he

1343
01:02:53,547 --> 01:02:56,472
can't. but. And Oz figures that out

1344
01:02:56,544 --> 01:02:59,528
and then. And then is like, okay, well,

1345
01:02:59,632 --> 01:03:01,720
let me. Let me use that to my

1346
01:03:01,768 --> 01:03:04,662
advantage. and they

1347
01:03:04,694 --> 01:03:07,238
ultimately start to get into fistfight. And

1348
01:03:07,262 --> 01:03:10,198
then you think like, wow, Oz is not gonna make.

1349
01:03:10,262 --> 01:03:13,166
And then. Nope, nope, nope. Because Sal

1350
01:03:13,246 --> 01:03:14,706
has a heart attack.

1351
01:03:16,086 --> 01:03:16,766
>> Will: Yep.

1352
01:03:16,886 --> 01:03:19,734
>> Sarah : I. I started laughing. And

1353
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:22,718
then the moment where Oz is like, no, no,

1354
01:03:22,822 --> 01:03:23,826
you can't.

1355
01:03:26,846 --> 01:03:29,686
You know, that is

1356
01:03:29,726 --> 01:03:31,506
like a classic.

1357
01:03:32,126 --> 01:03:35,118
Okay, We. We clearly have to

1358
01:03:35,142 --> 01:03:36,826
have a way out of the situation,

1359
01:03:37,831 --> 01:03:40,672
that's believable in. In a weird way. It's totally

1360
01:03:40,704 --> 01:03:42,036
believable. It makes all.

1361
01:03:42,336 --> 01:03:45,288
>> Will: Yeah. I mean, they're too old. They're two old guys, like, going at

1362
01:03:45,312 --> 01:03:48,204
it. You know, they set it up early. You know, they set it

1363
01:03:48,220 --> 01:03:51,052
up with our earlier, you know, scenes

1364
01:03:51,084 --> 01:03:53,900
with Sal, you know, having to take the heart, you know, taking the

1365
01:03:53,908 --> 01:03:56,628
blood potion, meds or whatever. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1366
01:03:56,772 --> 01:03:57,332
yeah.

1367
01:03:57,444 --> 01:04:00,296
>> Sarah : And, and, but. But it also.

1368
01:04:01,796 --> 01:04:04,556
I. I think it was also not just done

1369
01:04:04,676 --> 01:04:07,596
for. For. For there

1370
01:04:07,636 --> 01:04:09,461
to be a penultimate confrontation,

1371
01:04:11,636 --> 01:04:14,326
that. That Oz gets his

1372
01:04:14,366 --> 01:04:16,386
way out of it also.

1373
01:04:17,206 --> 01:04:19,826
Because, yes, he won,

1374
01:04:20,366 --> 01:04:23,166
but it wasn't the way he wanted to. Like,

1375
01:04:23,206 --> 01:04:25,822
he beat out, but it wasn't the

1376
01:04:25,854 --> 01:04:28,350
way. He may have the ring now,

1377
01:04:28,438 --> 01:04:31,422
but it's still not. And so

1378
01:04:31,614 --> 01:04:34,422
with. With Oz and his

1379
01:04:34,494 --> 01:04:36,306
whole manifesto

1380
01:04:37,686 --> 01:04:40,181
I. An ego, it,

1381
01:04:40,896 --> 01:04:43,792
it does a lot more for his character to

1382
01:04:43,824 --> 01:04:46,768
be like, yeah, yeah, he's going to come out on top,

1383
01:04:46,832 --> 01:04:49,676
but it's never going to be exactly

1384
01:04:50,136 --> 01:04:53,116
on his circumstances because at the end of the day,

1385
01:04:53,856 --> 01:04:56,356
he's never going to be

1386
01:04:57,936 --> 01:05:00,728
that person who he

1387
01:05:00,752 --> 01:05:03,256
may think he is, he may want to

1388
01:05:03,296 --> 01:05:06,248
be, but it's never going to be him because he's always going to be the

1389
01:05:06,272 --> 01:05:08,540
kid from the east side with the bum leg.

1390
01:05:08,688 --> 01:05:09,172
>> Will: Yep.

1391
01:05:09,244 --> 01:05:12,084
>> Sarah : Like, he can't fix his leg. He can't fix his mom.

1392
01:05:12,180 --> 01:05:13,576
He killed his brothers.

1393
01:05:13,956 --> 01:05:14,428
>> Will: Yep.

1394
01:05:14,492 --> 01:05:17,212
>> Sarah : So it's just. It's. It.

1395
01:05:17,284 --> 01:05:19,476
He. It is fascinating.

1396
01:05:19,636 --> 01:05:20,131
>> Will: It is.

1397
01:05:20,131 --> 01:05:23,090
>> Will: It is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1398
01:05:23,138 --> 01:05:26,098
That. That. I can't add anything more to that. I mean, I think

1399
01:05:26,122 --> 01:05:28,930
that that's what was. That's what made that scene work so.

1400
01:05:28,978 --> 01:05:31,852
So well. because as you

1401
01:05:31,884 --> 01:05:34,826
said that, And.

1402
01:05:34,866 --> 01:05:37,474
Yeah. And so whenever. Yeah, I mean,

1403
01:05:37,610 --> 01:05:40,402
really, as far as the rest of this episode, I mean, I think

1404
01:05:40,434 --> 01:05:43,394
that, you know, with a lot of. Just to turn it

1405
01:05:43,450 --> 01:05:46,286
to the Batman of it all, just for. For a moment,

1406
01:05:46,826 --> 01:05:49,754
with, you know, we were joking about the. The bomb

1407
01:05:49,810 --> 01:05:52,658
sequence there and being very predictable. But,

1408
01:05:52,762 --> 01:05:55,154
I mean, now I could. You know, it does.

1409
01:05:55,330 --> 01:05:58,130
Now take this whole. This. This gang

1410
01:05:58,178 --> 01:05:59,686
war that's been going on.

1411
01:06:00,886 --> 01:06:03,798
it does now that the Crown Point has

1412
01:06:03,822 --> 01:06:06,614
a big hole in the middle. I mean, Batman can't

1413
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:09,494
ignore it. So this. I think that's. That. So I

1414
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:12,198
think, you know, moving. Moving ahead to the Batman

1415
01:06:12,262 --> 01:06:15,102
2. And, you know,

1416
01:06:15,294 --> 01:06:17,546
now it makes sense why

1417
01:06:18,246 --> 01:06:21,144
Batman, Penguin. I, assume Sophia is probably going

1418
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,126
to survive, next week.

1419
01:06:24,796 --> 01:06:27,740
Well, you know, why these. Why this gang

1420
01:06:27,788 --> 01:06:29,296
war now gets his attention?

1421
01:06:30,116 --> 01:06:32,176
>> Sarah : You know, I.

1422
01:06:33,316 --> 01:06:35,900
During that sequence, I was not at all thinking

1423
01:06:35,948 --> 01:06:38,732
about the repercussions of the

1424
01:06:38,764 --> 01:06:41,380
hole in Crown's Peak. I was much more

1425
01:06:41,428 --> 01:06:44,394
fixated on, Crown's Point. I

1426
01:06:44,410 --> 01:06:47,166
was much more fixated on the

1427
01:06:49,506 --> 01:06:52,234
parallelism, between the Cold Open

1428
01:06:52,370 --> 01:06:55,268
and that scene. Because, like,

1429
01:06:55,332 --> 01:06:58,180
purposely we're made to believe it was the

1430
01:06:58,228 --> 01:07:01,052
same. Same door that he gets out of. His

1431
01:07:01,084 --> 01:07:03,976
men don't get out of. Just like, with his brothers.

1432
01:07:04,356 --> 01:07:07,096
And then just the. The dust.

1433
01:07:07,596 --> 01:07:10,405
And, the sound design of the whole sequence, it

1434
01:07:10,429 --> 01:07:13,405
reminds me of another explosion that happened

1435
01:07:13,429 --> 01:07:16,125
in a recent thing that I watched that Will did not

1436
01:07:16,189 --> 01:07:18,433
watch Joker 2.

1437
01:07:19,653 --> 01:07:22,652
This is the right way to do it. Not with what

1438
01:07:22,732 --> 01:07:24,396
happens in the Joker too.

1439
01:07:24,564 --> 01:07:25,392
>> Will: Spoiler.

1440
01:07:26,132 --> 01:07:28,352
>> Sarah : Okay, this is how you do it.

1441
01:07:29,078 --> 01:07:31,878
when I tell you. And honestly, I

1442
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:34,854
find it really amusing that you bring up, like,

1443
01:07:34,918 --> 01:07:37,718
with this sequence. Oh, yeah. And now like, of

1444
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:40,598
course, Batman. Because when we're. When you're sitting there watching

1445
01:07:40,630 --> 01:07:42,762
Joker 2 and the bomb comes off,

1446
01:07:43,452 --> 01:07:46,284
you first you're just like, what the fuck? And then you're

1447
01:07:46,308 --> 01:07:49,127
like, okay, is Batman just gonna suddenly

1448
01:07:49,175 --> 01:07:52,167
appear amidst the rumble? Like, he did this?

1449
01:07:52,335 --> 01:07:54,951
Yeah, like, this is the most comic

1450
01:07:55,007 --> 01:07:57,603
book cliche explosion ever.

1451
01:07:57,943 --> 01:08:00,663
Not like this. This was done so well. And then

1452
01:08:00,703 --> 01:08:03,569
what? and then the very next thing, I start to

1453
01:08:03,601 --> 01:08:06,321
laugh. Why did I start to laugh? Because

1454
01:08:06,497 --> 01:08:09,453
he sees a black Guy. And it's like.

1455
01:08:12,663 --> 01:08:15,527
I was just like, that is hilarious

1456
01:08:15,695 --> 01:08:18,283
for so many reasons. And also,

1457
01:08:18,663 --> 01:08:21,271
like, the fact that the number of

1458
01:08:21,327 --> 01:08:23,679
times either Oz or

1459
01:08:23,711 --> 01:08:26,519
myself ask throughout this episode,

1460
01:08:26,591 --> 01:08:27,471
where's Vic?

1461
01:08:27,607 --> 01:08:30,575
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I was thinking that throughout the episode too,

1462
01:08:30,599 --> 01:08:33,335
because, you know, at the very beginning, you know,

1463
01:08:33,519 --> 01:08:36,263
Vic. Vic's concussed after, you know, so he.

1464
01:08:36,303 --> 01:08:39,207
Thankfully, he lived. Yeah, yeah, he lived. You

1465
01:08:39,215 --> 01:08:40,641
know, he didn't get Jason Todd.

1466
01:08:40,807 --> 01:08:43,575
>> Sarah : So, he wasn't in the car. There was a

1467
01:08:43,599 --> 01:08:46,447
bomb. Because there, I will admit, there was a split

1468
01:08:46,495 --> 01:08:49,423
second when he opens the door. I was like, oh, is. Is Vic

1469
01:08:49,463 --> 01:08:50,203
in there?

1470
01:08:50,863 --> 01:08:53,751
>> Will: I thought that as well. I did too, because he's been gone the whole episode.

1471
01:08:53,767 --> 01:08:56,615
But I pointed me that that was. That was a very smart thing that

1472
01:08:56,639 --> 01:08:58,363
they did as far as misdirection,

1473
01:08:59,103 --> 01:09:01,911
>> Sarah : Because now, granted, granted, the way,

1474
01:09:02,007 --> 01:09:04,911
like, they end this with Sophia still has

1475
01:09:04,967 --> 01:09:07,751
Francis and. And

1476
01:09:07,807 --> 01:09:10,583
Oz is. Still has to go

1477
01:09:10,623 --> 01:09:13,271
and find his ma, you're just like, well,

1478
01:09:13,327 --> 01:09:16,023
okay, so we're gonna have another. What was it,

1479
01:09:16,063 --> 01:09:19,023
episode three, where. Where Sophia and

1480
01:09:19,063 --> 01:09:22,015
Oz are at gunpoint and. And then Vic comes

1481
01:09:22,039 --> 01:09:24,503
in with the car and stay like.

1482
01:09:24,663 --> 01:09:27,303
Like they set it up for that kind

1483
01:09:27,343 --> 01:09:30,271
of like we're gonna find out where Vic is

1484
01:09:30,367 --> 01:09:33,279
and he's gonna end because of his remote

1485
01:09:33,351 --> 01:09:36,223
absence. That's going to allow the escape to

1486
01:09:36,263 --> 01:09:38,543
happen. but

1487
01:09:40,043 --> 01:09:42,303
I think they also had to do that

1488
01:09:43,123 --> 01:09:46,003
because there was. There was

1489
01:09:46,043 --> 01:09:48,547
so much that needed to be done with

1490
01:09:48,675 --> 01:09:51,667
Sophia and Francis, Oz.

1491
01:09:51,795 --> 01:09:54,491
Sal and Oz as a little

1492
01:09:54,547 --> 01:09:57,113
boy. Yeah, yeah,

1493
01:09:57,893 --> 01:10:00,813
yeah. That we didn't have time for

1494
01:10:00,853 --> 01:10:02,165
Vic at the moment.

1495
01:10:02,309 --> 01:10:05,213
>> Will: No, no, no, it was. It was. I mean, because I think this is probably

1496
01:10:05,253 --> 01:10:08,245
the shortest runtime for. For all the episodes. I think it's only

1497
01:10:08,269 --> 01:10:11,233
like 46 minutes or something like that. Like that.

1498
01:10:11,733 --> 01:10:14,725
So, yeah, it was. It was a

1499
01:10:14,749 --> 01:10:17,651
packed penultimate episode. but you're right. I mean, they had to

1500
01:10:17,667 --> 01:10:20,667
move all the chess pieces, you know, and. And give a

1501
01:10:20,795 --> 01:10:22,940
answer, to question about what happened to

1502
01:10:24,180 --> 01:10:26,770
Oz's, brothers. But also, you know,

1503
01:10:26,810 --> 01:10:29,482
you. You know, and then they, you know,

1504
01:10:29,506 --> 01:10:32,439
they. They brought back the whole, Because I

1505
01:10:32,447 --> 01:10:35,303
think, you know, didn't they, Oz and his mom

1506
01:10:35,359 --> 01:10:38,031
talk about, you know, going to the little. The nightclub and

1507
01:10:38,063 --> 01:10:40,767
dancing and stuff? So in an earlier episode, so they.

1508
01:10:40,911 --> 01:10:43,775
They showed that scene this episode. And then of course,

1509
01:10:43,815 --> 01:10:46,799
at the end when Sophia, I guess

1510
01:10:46,847 --> 01:10:49,785
Rush was able to like, glean out that

1511
01:10:49,825 --> 01:10:52,415
moment. you know, they take her.

1512
01:10:52,575 --> 01:10:55,135
We see at the episode, they go to that same

1513
01:10:55,175 --> 01:10:57,817
old. Same old spot, for the

1514
01:10:57,841 --> 01:11:00,193
final confrontation that we'll get next week.

1515
01:11:00,369 --> 01:11:03,305
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, we

1516
01:11:03,345 --> 01:11:05,725
will get the final showdown

1517
01:11:06,105 --> 01:11:08,835
next week. and on that

1518
01:11:08,875 --> 01:11:11,275
note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find

1519
01:11:11,315 --> 01:11:11,923
you?

1520
01:11:12,099 --> 01:11:14,867
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on xforming on its

1521
01:11:14,931 --> 01:11:17,734
Twitter at will. And, Polk W I L L M

1522
01:11:17,734 --> 01:11:19,413
M P O L K. And.

1523
01:11:19,421 --> 01:11:22,293
>> Sarah : You can follow me there, too, at S.J. belmont S J B E L

1524
01:11:22,301 --> 01:11:25,157
M O N T. Please follow our crew there at Scene and

1525
01:11:25,173 --> 01:11:27,869
Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at

1526
01:11:27,909 --> 01:11:30,725
scene, underscore n, underscore Nerd, and visit our

1527
01:11:30,757 --> 01:11:33,749
website, www.scenerpodcast.com.

1528
01:11:33,789 --> 01:11:36,637
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast,

1529
01:11:36,693 --> 01:11:39,661
Spotify, YouTube or wherever. Gear Podcast, Connect. Geek out. You're

1530
01:11:39,685 --> 01:11:39,789
welcome.