The Penguin Episode 3 Shines, Joker 2 Disappoints, Agatha Episode 4 Underwhelms & More TV Insights

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>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont. And with

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me, as always, is our mister producer will Will Polk How are you doing

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tonight.

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>> Will: Will doing very well. Sarah, great to be here with you

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tonight.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. Another one for the books

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and.

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>> Will: Yes, yes.

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>> Sarah : So correct me if I'm wrong.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Cause was it

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yesterday was both the

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premiere of Superman and Lois the

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final season.

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>> Will: Yep.

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>> Sarah : And, ten years since the debut of

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the flash.

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>> Will: Yeah, I think it was either either yesterday or

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Sunday, but yeah, they all. Yeah, they were right there together.

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Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And it's. It wasn't like your birthday or

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anything, right?

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>> Will: No, that's not until December, but yeah. Yeah, it did feel

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that way. it wasn't. Like I said, I think I did post on

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our socials, this sort of a bittersweet season,

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premiere day, because, Yeah, I mean, we do both enjoy

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Superman and Lois. And, from what I gather,

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it just seeing the one

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time, the few moments I was on social media last

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night just to see,

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what was going on, it was like trending, at least on

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Twitter. It was like, you know, it was in the

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top trends for me in the US last night as far as

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the Superman and Lois premier. And, Yeah, and

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just seeing just some of the, you know, just seeing some of the

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reactions and stuff. I mean, it is. They

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lived up to what they were saying. The, showrunners were saying as

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far as, you know, taking interesting and a

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different take on the, very well

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known storyline in the DC comic

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universe.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. I mean, probably

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80% of that was just bots from WB

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who wanted to get positivity.

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Positivity out there amidst all of the

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joker talk that happened over the weekend.

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And it used to go on and

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on. Granted, it's hilarious how

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big the conversation is for a movie

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that the box office score was 35

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million.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I think it finally finished a weekend at

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37. but still, where they

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project, I mean, it was that the trends were trending

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downward.

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>> Sarah : Oh, yeah.

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>> Will: yeah. They were expecting 40 and

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yet it barely got to 37.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. Madam Webb did better than it in box

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office.

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>> Will: Yeah. And also, and also

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centiscord.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. You know, it, it's

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assigned and I say this all the time, like,

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I really don't want to watch previews.

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but I do.

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You can tell almost when a

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studio knows they have a winner and when a

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studio knows when they have a loser.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Because I had forgotten for a

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few. For a few, like,

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exactly when Joker two was coming. I knew it was coming.

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But I, I wasn't inundated with

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ads or anything as like a continuous

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reminder. So I

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really don't think WB is that

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surprised by the outcome considering

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the lack of marketing it had.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Between that and then,

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Yeah, things they were like dropping. Cause they were really

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starting to hype up some other things in the new DC

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studios. I think there's the new dynamic duo. The

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Robin story I think dropped earlier, let drop last

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week. I think I saw and what I did. Well, I guess a

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premiere for it or a trailer, a teaser for teaser trailer for

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it. And then just, just, you know, some of the

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behind the scenes stuff to sort of Todd Phillips talking

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about. you know, I think he's

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bailing on no more DC projects for comic book

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projects and, other things. And I know you've, I know you've

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Scene the Joker. I haven't yet.

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but, Yeah. Any, any spoiler or non spoiler

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thoughts you had about the film itself since you're, you're one of the few

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people based on the box office numbers who

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saw it.

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>> Sarah : Right. So I will

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say it's not a musical. I don't consider

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it to be a musical. I don't think that's

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why comic book or just people

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who saw the movie in general

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are saying it's bad. It's

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not because of the genre. I mean, come on. Do you

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know how well musicals do,

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like a good musical do? It has nothing to do

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with that. And we've covered multiple

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episodes of television in the comic book

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genre and their musical episodes

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really are executed well. This not

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executed well.

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And I don't like to

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do spoilers even though there's not really a whole lot

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to spoil. In my opinion about this

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movie, it just is what it is.

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But at the same time, I

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couldn't help but think throughout the

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entire movie how

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it's kind of unfortunate

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what they did because

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when we first saw the trailer,

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I forgot about this. But I

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remember us discussing the trailer

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and I said it should be

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told from Harley Quinn's perspective and everything

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should be in her head.

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They didn't do that. And Spoiler

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alert, that's to its detriment

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because having this told

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from Joker's perspective, I think

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is the reason why it was.

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It's, it's not doing well.

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It's viewed as being a bad movie. It's

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viewed as being a boring movie. All of the

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bad adjectives you want to throw out there.

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It just is. It almost

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feels like a weird

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extension and

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a weird

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quasi rendition

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of what we already saw play out in Joker

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one.

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So it's,

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it's a sequel, but it's more like an

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extension. And it's just,

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you're not really satisfied

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because you,

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you, wanted it to be more. You're like, oh, they're doing a sequel,

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so there's, there's more to the story to tell.

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And then you introduce Harley.

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But Harley's her own

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character and I just

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wish. But her character

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is almost the, how do I put it?

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Is almost the outcome of joker.

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So they had an opportunity to do something

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very well. If only

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I had pitched that idea to them at the

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beginning, because I just. And throughout

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the whole movie from the get go,

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I remembered that conversation and saying that.

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And as everything was unfolding, I'm thinking to

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myself, yeah, I wrote a better

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movie in five minutes than this.

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It's just so lame.

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So, yeah, I mean,

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yeah, and people can

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put out there how it was shot,

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how the acting and everything, but at

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the end of the day, it was just all

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undercooked.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna try to see it this weekend,

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maybe Friday. But, so share my thoughts on

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it as well. But definitely, wanted to hear yours while

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the ball is still. The underwhelming

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film was fresh in your mind.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I, I

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definitely checked my, my,

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phone to see what time it was at least four

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or five times throughout the movie. And I normally don't do

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that.

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>> Will: Yeah, that's bad.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. I started to like a half hour

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in because something happened and I was

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thinking to myself, this seems really quick. What

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time, how long have we been here? And

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I'm like, oh, okay, this is not,

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that does not bode well.

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So, so. And, it's, and it's

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weird because you know how

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people always say, like, there are

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people who love bad movies and build a

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cult following and all of that stuff.

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and I think that comes more than

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more about. It is always more

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fascinating to listen to people talk about

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movies that are considered bad.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Because I've enjoyed hearing everyone's

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thoughts about it, even though it gets a bit repetitious

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and no one's really becoming that

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original with their overall thoughts.

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But at the same time, it's just,

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I don't know, it's. We all love to get on the hater

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train together.

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>> Will: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Trolls will be trolls.

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Yeah, yeah. It's. I spent,

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my week. I, So

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last weekend I talked about all these shows that I was

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binging. Right, right. And

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at the very end. I dropped that. I just started

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a show on Hulu called

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tell me lies, right?

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>> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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>> Sarah : Basically the r rated version of

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a gossip girl. Pretty little

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liars. Whatever. You'll have it.

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sending college. In college. So these are all

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consenting adults. but.

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And I told you you didn't see a lot. No, no, no.

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I forgot how much I would, like,

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see where things were going and then get up and do something.

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Cause, like, I don't know why

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we need to see somebody make out for ten to

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15 minutes, but. No, no, no. There's a lot

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of nudity. There's a lot of nudity. This is not for

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your. For people underage at

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all. and also,

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the main character, Lucy,

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she just gets worse and worse with every single

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episode. I'm like, why the is she

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our main character? She is so stupid. She's

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not smart. And the sad thing is,

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this show

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goes to the past when they're in college, when

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everyone's in college together.

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Fast forwards to the future, and you can see

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where they are five years after college

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graduation. So you get this back and

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forth. And so I've Scene her in present day. The girl is still

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acting the same way she did five to

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six years ago. Whatever. So

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ridiculous. Granted, they had a

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very good mystery.

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Not even a mystery. Just like, okay, I still am a bit

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curious of how things are going to turn out. and I

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was also right. Second season is

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arguably better than the first season. You just have to get

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through the first season. And I was surprised. I just. I just

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went through it probably because I was doing a lot of

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stuff.

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>> Will: Background noise.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, background noise. And then. And

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so now I'm in the second season. I didn't

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realize the second season has not

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stopped airing.

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>> Will: Oh, okay.

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>> Sarah : But now I'm caught up, and I'm like, damn it.

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I was fully binge committed.

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>> Will: you gotta go back to the old linear model of weekly

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drop.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I might stock up

263
00:11:56,624 --> 00:11:59,496
on the next three. But now, because I told

264
00:11:59,536 --> 00:12:02,416
you how I got involved with this

265
00:12:02,456 --> 00:12:05,248
show was because it was all over my TikTok feed.

266
00:12:05,392 --> 00:12:08,248
Well, now part of me is like, yeah, I

267
00:12:08,272 --> 00:12:11,272
have to go to the standard model because I'm gonna get so

268
00:12:11,304 --> 00:12:14,204
many scenes ruined for me if

269
00:12:14,220 --> 00:12:14,892
you don't do that.

270
00:12:14,924 --> 00:12:15,896
>> Will: Yeah, exactly.

271
00:12:16,276 --> 00:12:19,028
>> Sarah : Yeah, exactly. Granted, I

272
00:12:19,052 --> 00:12:21,932
mean, I basically had the entire, like, the

273
00:12:21,964 --> 00:12:24,764
most recent episode completely spoiled for me on

274
00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:27,636
TikTok that it doesn't really make. It's not a

275
00:12:27,676 --> 00:12:30,620
high. Like, it's not like, oh, my God, I don't want

276
00:12:30,628 --> 00:12:33,260
to know anything. It's just. It's just

277
00:12:33,308 --> 00:12:36,078
interesting. I like. I like, what they're doing in

278
00:12:36,102 --> 00:12:38,968
terms of the. This

279
00:12:38,992 --> 00:12:41,920
is the past and how things unfolded

280
00:12:42,088 --> 00:12:44,760
and this is the present and where they are

281
00:12:44,808 --> 00:12:47,792
now and how some things have changed,

282
00:12:47,824 --> 00:12:50,556
yet some things haven't changed, Lucy.

283
00:12:51,076 --> 00:12:52,526
and just also,

284
00:12:54,346 --> 00:12:56,726
what is everybody's moves right now?

285
00:12:57,626 --> 00:13:00,322
There still seems to be. They are still

286
00:13:00,394 --> 00:13:01,806
all playing games,

287
00:13:03,316 --> 00:13:06,228
but, like,

288
00:13:06,332 --> 00:13:09,332
like how. And they threw a curve ball at the end of

289
00:13:09,364 --> 00:13:12,056
season one that I did not see coming.

290
00:13:12,786 --> 00:13:15,502
so I am now more curious to

291
00:13:15,534 --> 00:13:17,718
understand how that worked out.

292
00:13:17,862 --> 00:13:18,336
>> Will: Okay.

293
00:13:18,336 --> 00:13:21,214
>> Sarah : so they're doing a good job. but it is the

294
00:13:21,246 --> 00:13:23,018
trash tv show. Come on.

295
00:13:25,238 --> 00:13:28,078
>> Will: We all have our trash tv shows that we

296
00:13:28,118 --> 00:13:30,994
enjoy to just unwind and just put it, like, the back

297
00:13:31,046 --> 00:13:33,858
ground noise just to help pass the time.

298
00:13:34,018 --> 00:13:36,610
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. So I just had

299
00:13:36,634 --> 00:13:39,556
to, So it was basically finished. Like,

300
00:13:39,604 --> 00:13:42,552
I watched episode five or six of season two,

301
00:13:42,892 --> 00:13:45,660
got up, went to the movie theater, did Joker, came

302
00:13:45,716 --> 00:13:47,872
back, put on the next episode.

303
00:13:51,892 --> 00:13:54,772
Don't worry. I did watch. I did watch the penguin,

304
00:13:54,812 --> 00:13:57,358
and I did watch Agatha all along. Okay.

305
00:13:57,470 --> 00:13:58,182
>> Will: Yeah.

306
00:13:58,342 --> 00:14:00,908
>> Sarah : In between all that, Had to do that,

307
00:14:00,940 --> 00:14:01,516
too.

308
00:14:01,684 --> 00:14:04,498
>> Will: Yeah. Just that little. Just those two little shows. that's

309
00:14:04,530 --> 00:14:07,426
happening. Yeah. I did finally get around to Agatha episode four last

310
00:14:07,474 --> 00:14:08,330
night, so.

311
00:14:08,506 --> 00:14:11,506
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, episode four. If I can't

312
00:14:11,554 --> 00:14:14,082
reach you let me let my song teach

313
00:14:14,122 --> 00:14:14,702
you.

314
00:14:15,842 --> 00:14:18,462
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah,

315
00:14:19,082 --> 00:14:21,222
so, I guess. Yeah.

316
00:14:22,432 --> 00:14:25,176
>> Sarah : Well. Well, you go ahead. I just did a full rant,

317
00:14:25,224 --> 00:14:25,864
so.

318
00:14:26,048 --> 00:14:28,810
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, no, I, Yeah, like I said, I know I'm

319
00:14:28,866 --> 00:14:31,850
almost a full week behind with Agatha, so. Because I know the new episode

320
00:14:31,866 --> 00:14:34,634
drops, I think, tomorrow. But, So I, My

321
00:14:34,658 --> 00:14:37,514
overall thoughts on this episode, I

322
00:14:37,538 --> 00:14:40,530
did. As I noted, I did watch it last night, and I sent you

323
00:14:40,546 --> 00:14:43,250
a DM saying. Oh, yeah, I finally.

324
00:14:43,386 --> 00:14:46,114
Yeah, I watched Agatha. I, air quote, watched

325
00:14:46,178 --> 00:14:48,312
Agatha. Hello.

326
00:14:48,892 --> 00:14:51,850
And, you probably know you. We've been doing as well,

327
00:14:51,914 --> 00:14:54,770
long enough to know I was. You could probably sense that I was

328
00:14:54,794 --> 00:14:55,638
underwhelmed.

329
00:14:56,218 --> 00:14:58,610
>> Sarah : Oh, yeah. It's. It's probably their worst

330
00:14:58,674 --> 00:14:59,322
episode.

331
00:14:59,450 --> 00:15:02,324
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I, Yeah, speaking of how, you said

332
00:15:02,356 --> 00:15:05,220
how you were checking your phone during Joker, this is the

333
00:15:05,244 --> 00:15:07,848
first episode of Agatha where I started checking my phone.

334
00:15:08,448 --> 00:15:11,262
and, I mean, it was. It was okay. I mean, I'm not saying it

335
00:15:11,270 --> 00:15:14,214
was bad, but just in the. In

336
00:15:14,246 --> 00:15:17,094
the scale of Agatha shows, I mean, which

337
00:15:17,126 --> 00:15:19,910
has been up to date solid, this one

338
00:15:19,934 --> 00:15:22,854
was. It was underwhelming. I have it just was. And I can

339
00:15:22,886 --> 00:15:25,806
barely remember, like what. What happened in it? It

340
00:15:25,822 --> 00:15:28,734
was. It just. It left me. It left me

341
00:15:28,766 --> 00:15:29,418
cold.

342
00:15:30,398 --> 00:15:32,658
>> Sarah : Yeah, it felt.

343
00:15:34,078 --> 00:15:36,902
It felt very. Now

344
00:15:36,990 --> 00:15:39,908
we have. Now we're on the road. Now

345
00:15:39,948 --> 00:15:42,358
we have a, procedural

346
00:15:43,058 --> 00:15:45,554
esque template

347
00:15:45,746 --> 00:15:48,558
to plug these characters into a new house

348
00:15:49,178 --> 00:15:51,826
and to have one of them

349
00:15:51,922 --> 00:15:54,842
overcome something that was alluded to in

350
00:15:54,850 --> 00:15:56,318
the previous episode.

351
00:15:57,578 --> 00:16:00,440
And it was like, But we had a

352
00:16:00,464 --> 00:16:02,628
different version of the same thing last.

353
00:16:03,288 --> 00:16:06,128
You don't want that. Once you fall into the procedural

354
00:16:06,208 --> 00:16:09,024
mindset, it just. Or you can not

355
00:16:09,056 --> 00:16:11,632
even mindset. Sorry, that's probably the wrong word, but

356
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,584
that procedural archetype, then it

357
00:16:14,616 --> 00:16:17,432
just becomes a bit stale and a bit

358
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,988
like, well, this is kind of boring.

359
00:16:20,328 --> 00:16:20,798
>> Will: Yeah.

360
00:16:21,338 --> 00:16:24,170
>> Sarah : I also just want to know, like, can

361
00:16:24,194 --> 00:16:26,706
we expect a full musical

362
00:16:26,762 --> 00:16:28,478
episode at this point?

363
00:16:33,188 --> 00:16:36,140
And I swear. I swear, like I said, I watched

364
00:16:36,164 --> 00:16:38,988
a full Joker movie. Two and a half hours and then

365
00:16:39,028 --> 00:16:41,924
some. Or, no, 2 hours.

366
00:16:41,996 --> 00:16:44,788
Yeah. Anyway, like a long time.

367
00:16:44,948 --> 00:16:47,644
And. And Agatha along keeps

368
00:16:47,676 --> 00:16:49,808
having banger after banger

369
00:16:50,188 --> 00:16:52,448
music moments.

370
00:16:53,668 --> 00:16:55,916
That did not happen really, in the Joker.

371
00:16:56,052 --> 00:16:57,048
>> Will: No, no.

372
00:16:57,788 --> 00:16:59,728
>> Sarah : Just. I just.

373
00:17:00,858 --> 00:17:01,018
Yeah.

374
00:17:01,018 --> 00:17:03,996
>> Will: I will say that even though the episode left me cold, I

375
00:17:04,012 --> 00:17:06,764
will say that the ballot. Yeah, because you're right, they do

376
00:17:06,796 --> 00:17:09,468
have. It is pretty much a template now because we. You know, the

377
00:17:09,548 --> 00:17:12,446
last week we had the. The, water test

378
00:17:12,542 --> 00:17:15,542
and this week we had the fire test. So

379
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:18,446
we. We do have a template trial. So next week, or if, you know,

380
00:17:18,462 --> 00:17:21,320
we'll get earth and air the next two weeks, in some port in

381
00:17:21,344 --> 00:17:23,608
some order. But I will say the music,

382
00:17:23,768 --> 00:17:26,702
the seventies ballad, the power, you

383
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:29,534
know, rock ballot that they did, It worked. you know.

384
00:17:29,606 --> 00:17:32,470
You know, it did leave an impression, even

385
00:17:32,494 --> 00:17:35,118
though just the remixed version of the

386
00:17:35,238 --> 00:17:38,166
song that they've been singing with, you know, going down the

387
00:17:38,182 --> 00:17:40,638
witch's road. But. Yeah, yeah.

388
00:17:40,798 --> 00:17:43,414
>> Sarah : And. And they did bring back Audrey

389
00:17:43,446 --> 00:17:46,358
Plaza because they have to summon

390
00:17:46,438 --> 00:17:48,818
someone to replace Sharon rip.

391
00:17:49,798 --> 00:17:52,662
And they. I mean, we all knew that

392
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:55,432
she was going to appear, right. As soon as they

393
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,352
started to, it was like, kind of obvious. I did

394
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,344
like that moment. And I think

395
00:18:01,456 --> 00:18:04,128
the flaw in this episode or the fault in this

396
00:18:04,168 --> 00:18:06,816
episode is they didn't do more of

397
00:18:06,872 --> 00:18:09,792
this with not even Agatha, but with some of

398
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,344
the other characters is the

399
00:18:12,376 --> 00:18:14,720
conversation between Rio

400
00:18:14,824 --> 00:18:17,614
and, Agatha. And we

401
00:18:17,646 --> 00:18:20,504
learn that it

402
00:18:20,536 --> 00:18:22,188
was basically implied.

403
00:18:23,008 --> 00:18:25,640
Rio's the one who

404
00:18:25,784 --> 00:18:28,320
had. It was her job to take the

405
00:18:28,344 --> 00:18:30,068
baby from Agatha.

406
00:18:31,998 --> 00:18:32,938
and so.

407
00:18:34,838 --> 00:18:37,606
And I can appreciate that the

408
00:18:37,662 --> 00:18:40,534
writing in that scene is not

409
00:18:40,606 --> 00:18:42,338
too explicit.

410
00:18:43,608 --> 00:18:46,400
it is very vague because it is a very sensitive

411
00:18:46,464 --> 00:18:48,506
subject. So it felt

412
00:18:48,642 --> 00:18:51,514
natural for two people to have that

413
00:18:51,546 --> 00:18:54,258
kind of history. And then. And then you

414
00:18:54,298 --> 00:18:57,242
start again to feel a little bit more sympathy

415
00:18:57,290 --> 00:19:00,186
towards Agatha and also an understanding. It's like,

416
00:19:00,322 --> 00:19:03,258
well, yeah, if that witch did that

417
00:19:03,298 --> 00:19:05,834
to me, of course I would end up taking her

418
00:19:05,866 --> 00:19:06,514
power.

419
00:19:06,706 --> 00:19:07,478
>> Will: Yeah.

420
00:19:08,098 --> 00:19:10,786
>> Sarah : Like, and over in some way,

421
00:19:10,842 --> 00:19:13,754
despite them having been lovers at one

422
00:19:13,786 --> 00:19:15,648
point. So, yeah,

423
00:19:16,228 --> 00:19:17,340
yeah, that.

424
00:19:17,444 --> 00:19:20,402
>> Will: Yeah, that. That scene worked. their interactions

425
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:23,346
and stuff. That definitely was the plus. And then the

426
00:19:23,362 --> 00:19:26,194
other thing that did stand out to me, too, was just

427
00:19:26,346 --> 00:19:29,342
Agatha, related to that. was, you

428
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:31,698
know, Agatha's reaction when teen

429
00:19:32,478 --> 00:19:35,430
was, was injured and just the cause,

430
00:19:35,454 --> 00:19:38,446
you know, like, when Sharon died, it was sort of like, okay, whatever, you know, and

431
00:19:38,462 --> 00:19:40,922
everybody else is like, dude, really?

432
00:19:41,090 --> 00:19:43,962
But, you know, but she. Whenever teen was, it was. Was

433
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:46,238
hurt. And, you know. And to your point,

434
00:19:46,858 --> 00:19:49,706
about Rio and having

435
00:19:49,762 --> 00:19:52,306
some role in act. In taking of

436
00:19:52,322 --> 00:19:54,958
Agatha's child earlier,

437
00:19:55,918 --> 00:19:58,536
you know, it does. It does, you know,

438
00:19:58,672 --> 00:20:01,512
start to, like, make. Make the audience and

439
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,400
wonder, like, you know, especially with Agatha.

440
00:20:04,464 --> 00:20:07,448
Agatha's actions with teen and then seeing her reactions when he's

441
00:20:07,488 --> 00:20:10,484
bleeding out like that. you know, does she suspect

442
00:20:10,516 --> 00:20:13,300
that Tina's her son, especially given that the sigil

443
00:20:13,444 --> 00:20:14,758
is, is on him?

444
00:20:15,098 --> 00:20:17,570
>> Sarah : Yeah. Well, I had that suspicion

445
00:20:17,714 --> 00:20:20,474
even. Even at the

446
00:20:20,506 --> 00:20:23,274
beginning when it's first brought up, that her

447
00:20:23,306 --> 00:20:25,954
son was taken away and could still be

448
00:20:25,986 --> 00:20:28,842
alive. Like, immediately, I thought, well, is that the teen

449
00:20:28,890 --> 00:20:31,754
or is that Wanda's kid? And I think last week I even said,

450
00:20:31,786 --> 00:20:34,596
I still think that's Wanda's kidde. Yeah, but.

451
00:20:34,772 --> 00:20:37,188
And I can appreciate.

452
00:20:37,268 --> 00:20:40,180
I. That

453
00:20:40,244 --> 00:20:43,036
seemed too obvious for me to

454
00:20:43,172 --> 00:20:45,804
really appreciate. But. But I understand your

455
00:20:45,836 --> 00:20:48,690
point. and I did like the line and that.

456
00:20:48,754 --> 00:20:51,714
And that clarification that, no, that that boy is

457
00:20:51,746 --> 00:20:53,948
not yours. because. Because

458
00:20:54,928 --> 00:20:57,816
it's kind of like, for a moment, Agatha had a little bit

459
00:20:57,832 --> 00:20:58,540
of hope.

460
00:20:58,704 --> 00:20:59,524
>> Will: Yeah.

461
00:20:59,716 --> 00:21:02,588
>> Sarah : And then that was even taken away from

462
00:21:02,628 --> 00:21:04,928
her. Granted, hope can be dangerous,

463
00:21:07,188 --> 00:21:09,756
and we do learn more about the sigil.

464
00:21:09,932 --> 00:21:12,580
Like, it works on the witch who casted it

465
00:21:12,604 --> 00:21:14,248
too. So,

466
00:21:16,938 --> 00:21:19,638
they can't also. So I

467
00:21:19,838 --> 00:21:22,314
m works on the witch who casted it

468
00:21:22,346 --> 00:21:25,014
too. So then the witch who

469
00:21:25,046 --> 00:21:27,258
casted it cannot.

470
00:21:27,798 --> 00:21:30,214
Anytime that they try to say the

471
00:21:30,246 --> 00:21:32,782
teen's name or anything about

472
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:34,818
him and where he comes from,

473
00:21:35,838 --> 00:21:38,486
like, they. Nobody can hear it.

474
00:21:38,542 --> 00:21:40,390
Right? Is that how that would work?

475
00:21:40,494 --> 00:21:41,326
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

476
00:21:41,462 --> 00:21:44,318
>> Sarah : Okay. Okay. Well, then, like, we knew

477
00:21:44,358 --> 00:21:46,698
from that moment. Yeah, yeah,

478
00:21:47,998 --> 00:21:50,952
yeah. That it was in them. and I

479
00:21:50,968 --> 00:21:53,960
think Maggie, Agatha did too, because she's the one who

480
00:21:53,992 --> 00:21:55,684
said that, so. Hm.

481
00:21:56,064 --> 00:21:57,096
Interesting.

482
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:57,664
>> Will: Yeah.

483
00:21:57,744 --> 00:21:58,954
>> Sarah : And then, But,

484
00:22:02,184 --> 00:22:04,204
It needs to be destroyed

485
00:22:05,024 --> 00:22:07,736
and that only can happen when it's no longer

486
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,776
needed, so. So when does the kid turn

487
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:11,444
18?

488
00:22:11,784 --> 00:22:14,764
>> Will: Yeah, exactly.

489
00:22:15,104 --> 00:22:17,720
>> Sarah : You know what? And also no longer

490
00:22:17,792 --> 00:22:20,728
needed. They're doing a good job with the teen.

491
00:22:20,872 --> 00:22:22,704
>> Will: Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

492
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,736
>> Sarah : So far, I thought it would be a little more

493
00:22:25,776 --> 00:22:27,956
annoying, but it's not.

494
00:22:28,676 --> 00:22:31,176
It's a good thread to continue

495
00:22:33,116 --> 00:22:35,056
pulling forward. And,

496
00:22:35,876 --> 00:22:38,844
Yeah, so, I mean, again, not the best

497
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:41,612
episode so far, but

498
00:22:41,764 --> 00:22:44,742
I think there were a few moments

499
00:22:44,924 --> 00:22:47,800
and, We're just going to keep going down this road because

500
00:22:47,848 --> 00:22:50,072
apparently that's the arc of this season.

501
00:22:50,224 --> 00:22:53,032
>> Will: Yep. That's the arc. That's template. I know. I was concerned

502
00:22:53,064 --> 00:22:56,040
about that with another show we're going to talk about here

503
00:22:56,048 --> 00:22:58,842
in a few minutes. But, But yeah, it's very clear now that

504
00:22:58,874 --> 00:23:01,594
they definitely have their template. And we're

505
00:23:01,650 --> 00:23:04,420
episode five, so, Of eight. So

506
00:23:04,588 --> 00:23:07,498
we will get, We'll get

507
00:23:07,522 --> 00:23:10,514
those other two trials and then we'll, you know, we'll. We'll have our

508
00:23:10,530 --> 00:23:11,526
marvel ending.

509
00:23:13,146 --> 00:23:15,956
>> Sarah : Yeah. the other show we're going to talk about

510
00:23:15,996 --> 00:23:18,700
tonight is the penguin, episode three, bliss.

511
00:23:18,788 --> 00:23:21,732
Oz and Sophia must address the skeletons in their closet

512
00:23:21,764 --> 00:23:24,668
as they attempt to control the future of Gotham's drug trade,

513
00:23:24,772 --> 00:23:27,556
while Victor is torn between his new life and what remains of

514
00:23:27,596 --> 00:23:30,306
his old one. so

515
00:23:30,726 --> 00:23:32,382
this is Vic's episode.

516
00:23:32,534 --> 00:23:33,270
>> Will: Yep.

517
00:23:33,438 --> 00:23:36,338
>> Sarah : Yep. Vic's episode. And. And

518
00:23:36,362 --> 00:23:39,226
it dawned on me. Okay, so we've had three

519
00:23:39,266 --> 00:23:42,218
episodes of the Penguin. Episode one,

520
00:23:42,282 --> 00:23:45,218
clearly the Penguins episode. Episode two, we

521
00:23:45,242 --> 00:23:48,034
got a lot more. And the cold open was

522
00:23:48,090 --> 00:23:50,946
all Sophia. And now

523
00:23:51,026 --> 00:23:53,554
the cold open is Vic. And

524
00:23:53,650 --> 00:23:56,554
this episode is truly his

525
00:23:56,610 --> 00:23:58,086
episode. And so

526
00:23:59,786 --> 00:24:02,650
I like that. Now, fingers crossed,

527
00:24:02,738 --> 00:24:05,492
we've got the setup for our three central

528
00:24:05,564 --> 00:24:06,940
characters out of the way.

529
00:24:07,068 --> 00:24:08,092
>> Will: Yep. Yep.

530
00:24:08,204 --> 00:24:11,044
>> Sarah : So. So curious about next

531
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:13,990
week. and that. How that'll. That'll play out,

532
00:24:14,038 --> 00:24:16,720
because, I feel like they. They have their chess

533
00:24:16,768 --> 00:24:19,382
pieces, in place and then some.

534
00:24:19,534 --> 00:24:22,196
But my first question to you will, At what

535
00:24:22,236 --> 00:24:25,092
point during the cold open did you

536
00:24:25,124 --> 00:24:28,052
realize that we were watching the end

537
00:24:28,084 --> 00:24:30,516
of the batman through Vic's perspective?

538
00:24:31,908 --> 00:24:34,588
>> Will: I think when they were so, you know, Vic

539
00:24:34,652 --> 00:24:37,428
goes. Meets this, you know, goes to his

540
00:24:37,452 --> 00:24:40,312
family. They have their. You know, they're, inside

541
00:24:40,344 --> 00:24:42,756
the spider verse moment in the household and stuff.

542
00:24:43,766 --> 00:24:46,406
and, you know, he has the conversation where he leaves

543
00:24:46,486 --> 00:24:49,382
with. Whenever he leaves the

544
00:24:49,414 --> 00:24:50,986
home and has that. That

545
00:24:53,456 --> 00:24:55,720
pointed discussion with his father about

546
00:24:55,768 --> 00:24:58,584
ambition and. And all.

547
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,008
And how that ended. I was just like,

548
00:25:01,072 --> 00:25:03,916
oh, I get it now. This was.

549
00:25:04,336 --> 00:25:07,144
This was the night of the night that the Riddler set off the

550
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,112
bombs. It was. It was in that moment whenever he. Whenever

551
00:25:10,144 --> 00:25:12,596
they. Whenever he left and how things

552
00:25:12,896 --> 00:25:15,776
were left with his father was when I realized

553
00:25:15,816 --> 00:25:16,396
it.

554
00:25:16,696 --> 00:25:19,648
>> Sarah : Right. Well, you caught on a lot quicker than

555
00:25:19,672 --> 00:25:22,408
me because it was right when they started setting off the

556
00:25:22,432 --> 00:25:23,276
bombs.

557
00:25:25,236 --> 00:25:28,100
I don't know, I was just. I was like,

558
00:25:28,148 --> 00:25:31,052
oh, yeah, we finally get to see Vic's. Vic's

559
00:25:31,084 --> 00:25:33,852
family. We're. We're seeing more

560
00:25:33,884 --> 00:25:36,860
of his story. And I knew in

561
00:25:36,868 --> 00:25:39,856
the back of my mind and my subconscious, I knew

562
00:25:40,196 --> 00:25:42,740
that his crown point was

563
00:25:42,788 --> 00:25:45,300
destroyed. But for some reason, I just did

564
00:25:45,348 --> 00:25:47,468
not put two and two together,

565
00:25:47,612 --> 00:25:50,248
fortunately. so,

566
00:25:50,422 --> 00:25:53,332
so I. Yeah, I was

567
00:25:53,364 --> 00:25:56,180
a bit surprised. But it also. It worked really

568
00:25:56,228 --> 00:25:56,700
well.

569
00:25:56,828 --> 00:25:59,780
>> Will: It worked well, I will say, even though I can't, you

570
00:25:59,788 --> 00:26:02,532
know, whenever. Especially when the bombs went off. And it

571
00:26:02,564 --> 00:26:05,404
confirmed my suspicions. Just the. The

572
00:26:05,460 --> 00:26:08,340
cinematography and the scale and the scope

573
00:26:08,388 --> 00:26:11,116
of what happened, it

574
00:26:11,156 --> 00:26:14,132
really contextualized more of what happened at the end of the

575
00:26:14,164 --> 00:26:17,100
Batman and really just. It really drove it home in

576
00:26:17,108 --> 00:26:19,586
a more visceral way because when you see the

577
00:26:19,626 --> 00:26:22,126
floodwaters rushing in and,

578
00:26:22,586 --> 00:26:25,482
you know, maybe it's just due to some real world stuff I've been dealing

579
00:26:25,514 --> 00:26:28,424
with here in my state. but, you know, taking it back

580
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,354
to the show, just seeing that, seeing the

581
00:26:31,450 --> 00:26:34,298
bridge and the coming

582
00:26:34,362 --> 00:26:37,122
hitting department and just wipe it, you know, seeing

583
00:26:37,154 --> 00:26:39,602
that, wiping Victor's family out, I mean, it was

584
00:26:39,634 --> 00:26:42,618
just that, you know, I know we

585
00:26:42,642 --> 00:26:44,806
both were like, you know, trying to figure out how

586
00:26:45,446 --> 00:26:48,318
we felt about Vic as a character. And

587
00:26:48,342 --> 00:26:50,866
this really, like, this was the. Really

588
00:26:51,286 --> 00:26:54,214
deepened my understanding to

589
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:56,866
help me understand what. What this character is about.

590
00:26:57,526 --> 00:27:00,344
with, you know, seeing. Seeing things like, you know, we

591
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:03,304
were seeing think the crap. You know, we had reference to it and we've

592
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,936
Scene all the fallout from the Batman,

593
00:27:06,096 --> 00:27:08,784
from the riddler setting off the bombs. But this really drove it

594
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,522
home in a real way with one of

595
00:27:11,554 --> 00:27:14,336
our lead characters, in this show.

596
00:27:14,716 --> 00:27:17,644
And, you know, it was. It was. It

597
00:27:17,660 --> 00:27:20,412
was. It was a gut punch. I mean, as far as it was

598
00:27:20,444 --> 00:27:23,444
very what they intended for it to do to

599
00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:25,964
make you care more about Vic. I think they succeeded in

600
00:27:25,980 --> 00:27:26,536
that.

601
00:27:26,996 --> 00:27:29,706
>> Sarah : Right, right. we

602
00:27:29,746 --> 00:27:32,592
also, during that process, get introduced to

603
00:27:32,624 --> 00:27:35,596
his girlfriend and, who

604
00:27:35,636 --> 00:27:38,452
also survives because they are together on

605
00:27:38,484 --> 00:27:41,176
that night at the rooftop. And,

606
00:27:41,316 --> 00:27:43,846
so later on in the episode

607
00:27:44,746 --> 00:27:47,370
when Vic does not get to be

608
00:27:47,418 --> 00:27:49,948
driver, we'll talk more about that a little bit

609
00:27:49,972 --> 00:27:52,760
later, he is home

610
00:27:52,808 --> 00:27:55,800
alone at Penguin's place. And I just love

611
00:27:55,848 --> 00:27:58,408
how it's not even two minutes. He immediately calls his girlfriend. I'm

612
00:27:58,432 --> 00:28:00,726
like, wow, you are a child.

613
00:28:02,866 --> 00:28:05,602
>> Will: Yeah. Because Bing was like, I know, I will

614
00:28:05,634 --> 00:28:06,206
know.

615
00:28:06,626 --> 00:28:08,486
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I was just like

616
00:28:09,986 --> 00:28:12,668
I don't understand. And

617
00:28:12,692 --> 00:28:14,964
then we get his

618
00:28:15,020 --> 00:28:17,966
overall Crisis this episode which is

619
00:28:18,046 --> 00:28:20,546
she wants to leave. And

620
00:28:20,846 --> 00:28:23,478
he, considering his position with the

621
00:28:23,502 --> 00:28:26,380
penguin, doesn't know really if he can

622
00:28:26,428 --> 00:28:29,346
just walk out. So. And which leads to

623
00:28:29,386 --> 00:28:32,156
some really good scenes, Especially

624
00:28:32,406 --> 00:28:35,204
between him and Oz as This

625
00:28:35,260 --> 00:28:38,156
episode is really developing

626
00:28:38,316 --> 00:28:40,996
that father son

627
00:28:41,116 --> 00:28:44,076
dynamic between these two for better and for

628
00:28:44,116 --> 00:28:44,508
worse.

629
00:28:44,612 --> 00:28:47,244
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean you

630
00:28:47,260 --> 00:28:50,092
know, the bookends that they

631
00:28:50,124 --> 00:28:52,982
had. Well really with the a. You know with. You know

632
00:28:53,014 --> 00:28:55,998
clearly the big story was the a story in this episode.

633
00:28:56,062 --> 00:28:58,790
And then between the cold open, the.

634
00:28:58,838 --> 00:29:01,702
The lunch that they had in a fancy restaurant while

635
00:29:01,734 --> 00:29:04,684
they. While they were you know setting up. Oh gosh,

636
00:29:04,780 --> 00:29:07,558
what's her name? Lucas wife. I can't remember her

637
00:29:07,582 --> 00:29:09,960
name. But The conversation they had

638
00:29:10,008 --> 00:29:12,694
there. And you know. You know, Penguin

639
00:29:12,830 --> 00:29:15,718
Oz learning more about Vic's family and you know the whole

640
00:29:15,742 --> 00:29:18,406
thing about ambition and also just their

641
00:29:18,446 --> 00:29:21,262
relationship too because like when a waiter for example, you know,

642
00:29:21,294 --> 00:29:24,134
is. Is trying to. When Victor's

643
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:26,982
struggling you know, with a stutter to place his

644
00:29:27,014 --> 00:29:29,862
order you know the protective nature of Penguin

645
00:29:29,934 --> 00:29:32,492
you know came out As far

646
00:29:32,524 --> 00:29:35,376
as when waiter was

647
00:29:36,046 --> 00:29:39,014
doing his thing and. But then when you get to the end

648
00:29:39,030 --> 00:29:42,016
of the episode after Vic has this panic attack,

649
00:29:42,086 --> 00:29:44,768
and trying to Finally share

650
00:29:44,832 --> 00:29:46,756
with. With Oz

651
00:29:48,256 --> 00:29:51,122
with his girlfriend waiting on the bus, You know he's trying

652
00:29:51,154 --> 00:29:54,138
to. You know, Ozzy's phone, the message and just how all

653
00:29:54,162 --> 00:29:57,106
that played out. And you see the flip side of Ozdev

654
00:29:58,148 --> 00:30:01,106
trying. You know, the manipulative nature of Oz. But

655
00:30:01,146 --> 00:30:03,930
also that scene with. With

656
00:30:03,978 --> 00:30:06,922
Vic and Oz there in the bathroom

657
00:30:06,994 --> 00:30:09,866
was just so. It just worked so on so many levels

658
00:30:09,906 --> 00:30:12,834
from a performance standpoint. Because in.

659
00:30:12,970 --> 00:30:15,806
In the same mode where

660
00:30:15,856 --> 00:30:18,808
You know, Oz like went back to the bullying you know,

661
00:30:18,832 --> 00:30:20,800
putting a gun to his head like trying to.

662
00:30:20,928 --> 00:30:23,700
Manipulation literally with you know with. With

663
00:30:23,748 --> 00:30:24,976
threat of force,

664
00:30:26,246 --> 00:30:28,542
>> Will: He was also still like.

665
00:30:28,694 --> 00:30:31,574
Like genuinely hurt as

666
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:34,438
far as the emotion too. And his own kind in

667
00:30:34,462 --> 00:30:37,286
Oz's own kind of way. And just how that was

668
00:30:37,326 --> 00:30:39,806
all sold was just like. Just really. Just

669
00:30:39,846 --> 00:30:42,346
really. You know, so many levels there

670
00:30:42,846 --> 00:30:45,358
within that. Within that. Within that scene

671
00:30:45,422 --> 00:30:48,116
that You know really really stood out to me.

672
00:30:48,296 --> 00:30:50,712
how. You know, as far as the manipulation, but

673
00:30:50,744 --> 00:30:53,472
also the guilt trip that he was doing

674
00:30:53,624 --> 00:30:56,488
and then. But also, I think some level

675
00:30:56,512 --> 00:30:59,512
of hurt, too, because, you know, because of how well

676
00:30:59,544 --> 00:31:02,392
they set things up earlier in the episode with. With

677
00:31:02,424 --> 00:31:05,156
the conversation that they had at the restaurant.

678
00:31:06,576 --> 00:31:08,356
>> Sarah : Yeah, I.

679
00:31:09,896 --> 00:31:12,424
I think there's manipulation in both scenes.

680
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:13,456
>> Will: Oh, yeah, there is.

681
00:31:13,536 --> 00:31:15,952
>> Sarah : I mean, there's manipulation since they first

682
00:31:16,024 --> 00:31:18,768
encountered. Because, I

683
00:31:18,792 --> 00:31:21,686
mean, Penguin has no

684
00:31:21,726 --> 00:31:24,262
need for him. So he.

685
00:31:24,454 --> 00:31:27,182
It's. It's this weird position as a viewer for

686
00:31:27,214 --> 00:31:30,126
me, because he's technically

687
00:31:30,206 --> 00:31:32,846
expendable. But I

688
00:31:32,886 --> 00:31:35,226
think the penguin, also,

689
00:31:36,166 --> 00:31:38,186
because of his stammer,

690
00:31:38,716 --> 00:31:40,946
sees a. Something

691
00:31:41,446 --> 00:31:44,112
like a, sees somewhat of a

692
00:31:44,224 --> 00:31:47,168
kindred spirit, and he wants to give

693
00:31:47,312 --> 00:31:50,176
this kid a shot. And he's really taken under

694
00:31:50,216 --> 00:31:53,108
his wing. And so I

695
00:31:53,132 --> 00:31:56,096
don't know why I never think that

696
00:31:57,236 --> 00:32:00,132
I haven't. From the get go. Penguin will never hurt

697
00:32:00,164 --> 00:32:00,776
Vic.

698
00:32:01,196 --> 00:32:02,212
>> Will: Yeah, he won't.

699
00:32:02,324 --> 00:32:04,636
>> Sarah : The hangman will. But

700
00:32:05,096 --> 00:32:07,940
Penguin will never, hurt vic, no matter

701
00:32:07,988 --> 00:32:09,656
what. And so.

702
00:32:13,436 --> 00:32:15,536
But I think that

703
00:32:16,356 --> 00:32:19,124
what I can appreciate is that in that cold,

704
00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:21,926
open, there is that

705
00:32:21,966 --> 00:32:24,612
conversation between, Vic and his girlfriend

706
00:32:24,764 --> 00:32:26,786
looking at Gotham, the big city

707
00:32:27,236 --> 00:32:29,852
and where all the fancy people

708
00:32:29,924 --> 00:32:32,788
live. And you can tell in

709
00:32:32,812 --> 00:32:35,436
that moment, just through his

710
00:32:35,476 --> 00:32:38,202
eyes, that, he

711
00:32:38,234 --> 00:32:41,090
aspires to live there and to

712
00:32:41,258 --> 00:32:43,766
make it there. And

713
00:32:44,146 --> 00:32:46,946
I don't. Now, I don't know when

714
00:32:46,986 --> 00:32:48,886
the heck the penguin saw that,

715
00:32:50,226 --> 00:32:52,378
but that's

716
00:32:52,482 --> 00:32:55,036
honestly something

717
00:32:55,156 --> 00:32:57,892
that, for one reason or another, the penguin

718
00:32:57,924 --> 00:33:00,628
knows about. And that's where he really twists

719
00:33:00,692 --> 00:33:03,656
it and he's really able to.

720
00:33:04,716 --> 00:33:07,556
To use, like, I did

721
00:33:07,596 --> 00:33:10,556
it. You can, too. Just follow

722
00:33:10,636 --> 00:33:13,268
my lead. Like, you. You see

723
00:33:13,332 --> 00:33:15,576
me and they accept me.

724
00:33:16,116 --> 00:33:18,456
So. So it's just,

725
00:33:19,026 --> 00:33:21,736
>> Will: Yeah, it is a twisted, like, american

726
00:33:22,276 --> 00:33:25,244
pull yourself up by the bootstrap american, you

727
00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:28,252
know, american dreams, even

728
00:33:28,284 --> 00:33:31,132
though it's the criminal underworld type of story

729
00:33:31,204 --> 00:33:31,508
there.

730
00:33:31,572 --> 00:33:32,108
>> Sarah : Yeah.

731
00:33:32,252 --> 00:33:32,936
>> Will: Yeah.

732
00:33:33,316 --> 00:33:36,228
>> Sarah : It's people who. And

733
00:33:36,252 --> 00:33:38,772
we've Scene the relationship between Oz and his

734
00:33:38,804 --> 00:33:41,636
mom. So the

735
00:33:41,716 --> 00:33:44,548
manipulation that occurs between Oz and

736
00:33:44,572 --> 00:33:47,512
vicinity, like, it

737
00:33:47,544 --> 00:33:50,416
makes sense. Oz doesn't know any other way.

738
00:33:50,536 --> 00:33:53,440
So an honest be worse.

739
00:33:53,608 --> 00:33:56,480
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, that is true. That is true. I mean. I

740
00:33:56,488 --> 00:33:59,120
mean, people. You know, people do,

741
00:33:59,208 --> 00:34:02,208
like, you know, whatever patterns, good and bad, you

742
00:34:02,232 --> 00:34:05,032
pick up from your parents, it carries. You know, it does carry forward

743
00:34:05,104 --> 00:34:07,396
in your own parenting style. And.

744
00:34:07,856 --> 00:34:10,720
And we see that as far as, I guess, like you said, I

745
00:34:10,728 --> 00:34:13,722
mean, Oz is sort of. Has become sort of the surrogate

746
00:34:13,754 --> 00:34:16,306
father for Vic. And so

747
00:34:16,466 --> 00:34:19,186
that model that he. That he grew up with is now what

748
00:34:19,226 --> 00:34:21,246
he's. What he's doing to Vic.

749
00:34:21,546 --> 00:34:24,050
>> Sarah : Right. And. And there

750
00:34:24,098 --> 00:34:26,898
isn't anything wrong with wanting more. It's

751
00:34:26,922 --> 00:34:29,426
just the means of how you go about it.

752
00:34:29,546 --> 00:34:29,996
>> Will: Right.

753
00:34:29,996 --> 00:34:32,812
>> Sarah : and. And so far, technically, Vic hasn't

754
00:34:32,844 --> 00:34:34,296
really done that much wrong.

755
00:34:35,636 --> 00:34:38,270
He even gave a cop $1,000.

756
00:34:38,388 --> 00:34:39,046
>> Will: But.

757
00:34:41,306 --> 00:34:44,298
>> Sarah : Which you could in that scene. He's learning

758
00:34:44,362 --> 00:34:47,098
from his mistakes because that was good improvisation

759
00:34:47,202 --> 00:34:50,042
when things go a little bit sideways, and then by the

760
00:34:50,074 --> 00:34:52,722
end, when he literally crashes the

761
00:34:52,754 --> 00:34:54,922
party to

762
00:34:55,114 --> 00:34:57,126
ultimately save Oz,

763
00:34:57,666 --> 00:35:00,098
he, again, working on the

764
00:35:00,122 --> 00:35:03,008
improvisation. So, yeah,

765
00:35:03,192 --> 00:35:05,716
I think those. The arc,

766
00:35:06,076 --> 00:35:08,156
was good. a little bit of a fresh

767
00:35:08,236 --> 00:35:11,076
perspective and

768
00:35:11,196 --> 00:35:13,456
more of an understanding of

769
00:35:14,436 --> 00:35:16,936
how Oz can,

770
00:35:17,346 --> 00:35:20,090
how and why Oz keeps

771
00:35:20,178 --> 00:35:23,022
Vic around. and why. And

772
00:35:23,054 --> 00:35:25,734
now, more importantly, by the end of the show, why Vic

773
00:35:25,790 --> 00:35:26,478
stays.

774
00:35:26,622 --> 00:35:27,886
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

775
00:35:28,046 --> 00:35:30,974
>> Sarah : Even though his dad would not be proud of him.

776
00:35:31,110 --> 00:35:33,766
>> Will: No, no. Which. Yeah,

777
00:35:33,926 --> 00:35:36,846
definitely would not be proud of him. But we do. But I think

778
00:35:36,886 --> 00:35:39,586
they did a great job of, like. Like you said,

779
00:35:40,006 --> 00:35:42,936
helping, us understand why he sticks around. And,

780
00:35:42,886 --> 00:35:45,762
And, But also the other thing, too, is just, why

781
00:35:45,954 --> 00:35:48,922
Colin Farrell is just doing such an amazing job with this

782
00:35:48,954 --> 00:35:51,850
character. In that. Thinking about that bathroom

783
00:35:51,898 --> 00:35:54,394
scene, he. I actually felt

784
00:35:54,450 --> 00:35:57,250
whenever. Whenever the manipulation was

785
00:35:57,298 --> 00:36:00,274
going on, I still almost felt sorry for. I

786
00:36:00,290 --> 00:36:02,906
felt bad for us that Vic was even thinking about

787
00:36:02,946 --> 00:36:05,858
leaving, which is, like, making me care about

788
00:36:05,882 --> 00:36:06,686
the villain.

789
00:36:07,226 --> 00:36:09,566
>> Sarah : Oh. But it's. It's.

790
00:36:10,546 --> 00:36:13,002
He's not the villain. He's the hero.

791
00:36:13,114 --> 00:36:15,930
>> Will: He's a hero. Yeah. I have to remember that. Yeah. This is

792
00:36:16,058 --> 00:36:17,616
the hero of his story. Yeah, yeah.

793
00:36:17,616 --> 00:36:20,216
>> Sarah : yeah, it's. You. You need to

794
00:36:20,256 --> 00:36:22,770
like him. And honestly,

795
00:36:22,818 --> 00:36:25,258
they're like, yeah, like Vic.

796
00:36:25,322 --> 00:36:28,046
But I wouldn't say

797
00:36:28,546 --> 00:36:31,314
like your alternative is liking the Hague, man.

798
00:36:31,490 --> 00:36:34,218
>> Will: Yeah, true. But.

799
00:36:34,362 --> 00:36:37,106
>> Sarah : But she. Sophia, ah. Is

800
00:36:37,146 --> 00:36:39,664
also coming into her own. and

801
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,456
I. And I'm starting to really come around on

802
00:36:42,496 --> 00:36:45,448
her, mainly because I

803
00:36:45,472 --> 00:36:46,876
really appreciate

804
00:36:48,136 --> 00:36:51,120
the lack of clarification about the

805
00:36:51,168 --> 00:36:53,670
history. we learned in this

806
00:36:53,718 --> 00:36:56,430
episode. He used to be her

807
00:36:56,478 --> 00:36:57,146
driver,

808
00:36:59,126 --> 00:37:01,478
and we still don't know the

809
00:37:01,582 --> 00:37:04,186
full beat for beat

810
00:37:04,686 --> 00:37:06,586
betrayal that occurred.

811
00:37:07,126 --> 00:37:09,806
But they were definitely

812
00:37:09,846 --> 00:37:10,426
close.

813
00:37:12,256 --> 00:37:14,520
And I really

814
00:37:14,648 --> 00:37:17,552
like the conversation at the end

815
00:37:17,744 --> 00:37:20,376
where it was the

816
00:37:20,416 --> 00:37:22,744
first, arguably real conversation

817
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,600
where, again, we had just Scene him

818
00:37:25,648 --> 00:37:27,556
break down over Vic.

819
00:37:29,136 --> 00:37:31,720
And it makes sense that he

820
00:37:31,768 --> 00:37:33,976
would come off or have this

821
00:37:34,016 --> 00:37:36,792
response. Then when Sophia finally

822
00:37:36,824 --> 00:37:39,476
confronts him and just said, did he get everything you wanted?

823
00:37:39,616 --> 00:37:40,336
>> Will: Yeah.

824
00:37:40,636 --> 00:37:43,380
>> Sarah : And. And I also like, he's like, yeah,

825
00:37:43,428 --> 00:37:44,588
fuck. I did.

826
00:37:44,772 --> 00:37:45,536
>> Will: Yep.

827
00:37:46,116 --> 00:37:48,924
>> Sarah : I'm not sorry for that, because. Because

828
00:37:48,980 --> 00:37:51,596
if he had. If he had said it like it's

829
00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:54,604
bullshit. He isn't sorry exactly.

830
00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:56,016
At the same time,

831
00:37:57,536 --> 00:37:59,466
it's this weird thing where

832
00:38:01,206 --> 00:38:04,014
I almost don't know if

833
00:38:04,070 --> 00:38:06,542
it's true or if I want it to be

834
00:38:06,574 --> 00:38:09,372
true. The next line he says where

835
00:38:09,564 --> 00:38:11,816
he did, does regret

836
00:38:12,196 --> 00:38:13,816
having hurt her.

837
00:38:14,276 --> 00:38:15,056
>> Will: Yeah.

838
00:38:15,796 --> 00:38:18,436
>> Sarah : And what. What he did to her. And so

839
00:38:18,516 --> 00:38:21,476
it's like you don't regret the

840
00:38:21,516 --> 00:38:23,296
outcome. Well, duh.

841
00:38:23,636 --> 00:38:26,524
>> Will: Yeah. It's probably one truthful thing he

842
00:38:26,540 --> 00:38:27,052
said.

843
00:38:27,204 --> 00:38:29,980
>> Sarah : Yeah. The. The. But the means

844
00:38:30,068 --> 00:38:33,048
to get there was only one path. Or, or

845
00:38:33,072 --> 00:38:35,936
maybe. We don't know, maybe there was an option and maybe

846
00:38:35,976 --> 00:38:38,888
that's what he regrets and that's what he was talking about.

847
00:38:39,032 --> 00:38:41,636
So, like, that,

848
00:38:42,096 --> 00:38:44,984
the mystery of the full context

849
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,032
of the history with these characters and

850
00:38:48,064 --> 00:38:50,840
how they're piece, by

851
00:38:50,888 --> 00:38:53,872
piece, putting that together over the course of the season,

852
00:38:54,064 --> 00:38:56,928
I really. I really like. Because that adds

853
00:38:57,032 --> 00:38:59,466
intrigue for me and curiosity.

854
00:38:59,656 --> 00:39:02,486
>> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, that

855
00:39:02,526 --> 00:39:05,390
to that scene too, is just to your. Just to think

856
00:39:05,438 --> 00:39:07,996
a little bit more about it. Whenever, again,

857
00:39:09,576 --> 00:39:12,290
Colin, Farrell, just fucking amazing. Because, like,

858
00:39:12,330 --> 00:39:15,258
whenever he started tearing up when he was telling Sophia that

859
00:39:15,314 --> 00:39:18,218
while he was still. I mean, it's just the depths

860
00:39:18,274 --> 00:39:20,110
of his.

861
00:39:21,450 --> 00:39:23,350
Even though, like you said,

862
00:39:24,350 --> 00:39:26,822
he doesn't regret what he

863
00:39:26,846 --> 00:39:29,830
got, but he, you know,

864
00:39:29,870 --> 00:39:32,574
but at the same time, he's, you know, conveying

865
00:39:32,742 --> 00:39:35,622
there seems to be something he's feeling there. I don't know what

866
00:39:35,646 --> 00:39:37,880
the emotion is. because he

867
00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:41,372
just. He feeds so many lies. You just.

868
00:39:41,516 --> 00:39:44,316
It reaches a point like, you know, what is the truth with this

869
00:39:44,348 --> 00:39:47,194
guy? because he is a survivor. Like we talked about last

870
00:39:47,242 --> 00:39:49,994
week with, like, you reminded here you made a great

871
00:39:50,018 --> 00:39:52,934
callback to, yabashige from. From shogungest.

872
00:39:53,108 --> 00:39:53,746
>> Sarah : Yeah.

873
00:39:53,824 --> 00:39:56,550
>> Will: you know, he will do what he needs to suit his own end. And

874
00:39:56,582 --> 00:39:59,206
especially we see that at the end of this episode because

875
00:39:59,390 --> 00:40:02,310
when. When Vic rescue, you know, rescues them

876
00:40:02,342 --> 00:40:04,754
both from the Maronis, you know,

877
00:40:05,574 --> 00:40:08,566
she. He jumps in the car and Vic's like, what

878
00:40:08,590 --> 00:40:11,470
about, you know, they're. What about Sophie and

879
00:40:11,582 --> 00:40:14,342
Sophia? And he's just like, get the fuck out of

880
00:40:14,358 --> 00:40:17,262
here. So after selling all.

881
00:40:17,438 --> 00:40:20,222
Yeah, after all that saying he was,

882
00:40:20,278 --> 00:40:23,192
you know, I, You know, you got it. You can trust me. And all the

883
00:40:23,208 --> 00:40:26,136
stuff he built up, he still reverted back to the,

884
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,872
you know, back to that survival mode because that's what he

885
00:40:28,888 --> 00:40:29,524
knows.

886
00:40:30,064 --> 00:40:33,024
>> Sarah : Yeah, I don't. I guess I retract

887
00:40:33,064 --> 00:40:36,000
that statement. I don't know if that's the smartest thing he could have done,

888
00:40:36,072 --> 00:40:38,976
because now you have Sophia and

889
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:39,804
Nadia.

890
00:40:41,664 --> 00:40:42,824
They're going to talk.

891
00:40:42,984 --> 00:40:43,584
>> Will: Yeah.

892
00:40:43,704 --> 00:40:46,632
>> Sarah : Yeah. And neither one of them trusts. I

893
00:40:46,648 --> 00:40:49,496
mean, I. This episode, I think,

894
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,504
does a good job of putting the Maronis

895
00:40:52,584 --> 00:40:55,576
on the back burner without the

896
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,136
viewer even realizing it. So when Nadia

897
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,480
appears, you're like, oh,

898
00:41:00,552 --> 00:41:03,080
yeah, thank God they're actually

899
00:41:03,192 --> 00:41:05,784
smart. It also,

900
00:41:05,944 --> 00:41:08,728
they appear in a way where it's like, okay, thank God

901
00:41:08,776 --> 00:41:11,264
we're working with a lot of smarteen characters.

902
00:41:12,644 --> 00:41:15,442
Characters. because they're all bad

903
00:41:15,498 --> 00:41:18,170
guys, and typically, bad guys are not the brightest.

904
00:41:18,282 --> 00:41:18,578
>> Will: Right.

905
00:41:18,626 --> 00:41:20,254
>> Sarah : So. So

906
00:41:20,914 --> 00:41:23,780
Nadia, like, Oz and Vic may have gotten

907
00:41:23,812 --> 00:41:25,704
away, but

908
00:41:26,604 --> 00:41:29,292
now, technically, you have kind of two

909
00:41:29,348 --> 00:41:31,428
enemies who are going to

910
00:41:31,596 --> 00:41:34,308
potentially make an alliance. So

911
00:41:34,436 --> 00:41:37,404
I don't know if leaving Sofia was in the best

912
00:41:37,444 --> 00:41:40,320
interest, but at the same time, it's like he's

913
00:41:40,352 --> 00:41:42,764
got to get away from Nadia because of.

914
00:41:43,464 --> 00:41:46,416
They were not happy, which. Which I was right. At the end of

915
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,816
last episode, Nadia never got her guy back.

916
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,888
>> Will: She never did. Yeah, they pieced it together.

917
00:41:51,016 --> 00:41:53,336
>> Sarah : And where the heck is that actress

918
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,044
from? Okay.

919
00:41:56,194 --> 00:41:58,414
but I swear to God,

920
00:41:59,034 --> 00:42:01,890
I've Scene her in so many things, and I

921
00:42:01,922 --> 00:42:04,586
just. And she's always really good.

922
00:42:04,770 --> 00:42:07,054
I just. I can't place it.

923
00:42:07,954 --> 00:42:10,842
>> Will: Yeah, I I know. I'm the same way, too. I need to

924
00:42:10,858 --> 00:42:13,826
look at the IMDb, real fast just

925
00:42:13,850 --> 00:42:16,454
to, like, to place her, because she. She is.

926
00:42:16,954 --> 00:42:19,762
Oh, yeah. She's. I've Scene her in other stuff, and she's

927
00:42:19,818 --> 00:42:21,494
always delivers a great performance.

928
00:42:23,564 --> 00:42:25,944
but, yeah, but I agree. I, Yeah.

929
00:42:26,024 --> 00:42:28,880
>> Sarah : You know, she was from the house of sand

930
00:42:28,912 --> 00:42:30,038
and Foghorne.

931
00:42:30,156 --> 00:42:30,602
>> Will: Okay.

932
00:42:30,658 --> 00:42:33,600
>> Sarah : Way back in 2003 with, I believe that was

933
00:42:33,632 --> 00:42:36,608
with Ben Kingsley. I remember that you've Scene

934
00:42:36,656 --> 00:42:38,576
her in Star Trek beyond.

935
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,644
>> Will: That's where it was. Yep, yep, yep.

936
00:42:42,904 --> 00:42:45,888
>> Sarah : I'm just. I'm just looking at this. Yeah,

937
00:42:46,056 --> 00:42:48,364
yeah. She's been on a lot of different things.

938
00:42:49,184 --> 00:42:52,120
We watched the flight attendant. She was in that show.

939
00:42:52,232 --> 00:42:52,284
Yeah.

940
00:42:52,284 --> 00:42:54,168
>> Will: we did watch the flight attendant. Yes. Yeah,

941
00:42:54,838 --> 00:42:57,726
yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, but

942
00:42:57,742 --> 00:42:58,458
you're right.

943
00:42:59,238 --> 00:43:02,032
>> Sarah : That is, Sorry. I'm just gonna put this out there. This is

944
00:43:02,064 --> 00:43:04,814
funny. 2017, there was a little show

945
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:07,506
called the Punisher. She played

946
00:43:07,886 --> 00:43:10,026
Farah Madani.

947
00:43:10,326 --> 00:43:11,146
>> Will: Huh?

948
00:43:12,526 --> 00:43:15,038
>> Sarah : Oh, yeah. Now, that's where I know her

949
00:43:15,062 --> 00:43:18,046
from, Madani. I think she was, like,

950
00:43:18,086 --> 00:43:19,866
a police officer or something.

951
00:43:20,046 --> 00:43:20,442
>> Will: Okay.

952
00:43:20,474 --> 00:43:20,610
>> Sarah : Yeah.

953
00:43:20,618 --> 00:43:23,498
>> Will: And I know it from Star Trek. That's where I remember from. You're right. I completely

954
00:43:23,522 --> 00:43:26,332
remember from Star Trek beyond the last movie in the, Kelvin

955
00:43:26,364 --> 00:43:29,146
universe. So, yeah, but

956
00:43:29,096 --> 00:43:32,008
but, you know, but you're right, though. It was smarter

957
00:43:32,032 --> 00:43:34,846
than m to put the Maronis on the back burner this episode.

958
00:43:37,076 --> 00:43:39,724
>> Will: Because we. You know, the only place where I feel like the

959
00:43:39,740 --> 00:43:42,588
episode kind of did drag a little bit was maybe when

960
00:43:42,612 --> 00:43:45,436
they were doing the whole drug trade thing in the.

961
00:43:45,476 --> 00:43:48,366
In the club. As far as what. Yeah,

962
00:43:48,546 --> 00:43:51,414
you know, that, Yeah, we had to

963
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:54,414
do that to sort of establish the triads and, you know, get the, you

964
00:43:54,430 --> 00:43:57,102
know, get the distributors and all that kind of stuff set up.

965
00:43:57,134 --> 00:44:00,084
But, really, the thing that stands out for

966
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:03,004
me with that is just like, as we discussed earlier,

967
00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:05,772
Vic's panic attack, you know, in the context of the

968
00:44:05,804 --> 00:44:08,796
larger a story. And also, you know, him

969
00:44:08,836 --> 00:44:11,410
adapting, whenever the, cop showed

970
00:44:11,450 --> 00:44:14,280
up. but the rest of it, as far as the bliss and

971
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,232
the drugs and stuff, you know, you know, we'll, you know, it

972
00:44:17,256 --> 00:44:19,904
definitely needed to be set up. So we'll see how all that

973
00:44:20,032 --> 00:44:22,778
unfolds, throughout the rest of the season beyond the

974
00:44:22,794 --> 00:44:25,792
drops, you know, with all these fake drugs that they

975
00:44:25,816 --> 00:44:28,808
come up with in the DC universe. I mean, bliss sounds like something we may have

976
00:44:28,824 --> 00:44:31,176
heard about in titans first, for all I know.

977
00:44:31,368 --> 00:44:34,256
>> Sarah : I. So we find out

978
00:44:34,288 --> 00:44:37,270
it comes from Arkham and it was used on the patients and,

979
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:39,620
ah, I like how

980
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,560
little, ah, Miss Sophia is being very quiet about the exact

981
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,088
effects of it.

982
00:44:45,264 --> 00:44:45,920
>> Will: Yeah.

983
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,340
>> Sarah : because everyone else is like, it's party job.

984
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,616
And see, even though the scene went on long and.

985
00:44:51,648 --> 00:44:54,544
Yeah, towards the end, we get Vic's panic

986
00:44:54,592 --> 00:44:57,160
attack. I thought the overall

987
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,820
scene in orchestra. Orchestration.

988
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,288
Yeah, it brought in the triad and added

989
00:45:03,344 --> 00:45:06,152
that extra element because there's a lot of families in

990
00:45:06,176 --> 00:45:08,704
Gotham who are fighting over power.

991
00:45:08,872 --> 00:45:11,728
But it also emphasize

992
00:45:11,784 --> 00:45:14,496
reemphasized more the power struggle occurring

993
00:45:14,528 --> 00:45:16,136
between Oz and Sophia.

994
00:45:16,288 --> 00:45:17,064
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

995
00:45:17,112 --> 00:45:19,904
>> Sarah : Like, I think they did a good job

996
00:45:19,952 --> 00:45:22,336
is that, yeah, these two are aligned,

997
00:45:22,408 --> 00:45:24,864
but they are very. On very shaky

998
00:45:24,912 --> 00:45:27,250
terms, especially because,

999
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:30,910
like, both of them can never be.

1000
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:33,934
Like, both of them can't share. We're

1001
00:45:33,982 --> 00:45:36,958
bossed together like, they're not partners. And Sophia

1002
00:45:37,014 --> 00:45:39,774
makes that very clear. And then I

1003
00:45:39,822 --> 00:45:42,686
think that her speech

1004
00:45:42,838 --> 00:45:45,758
and her ability to sell the drug, she did a

1005
00:45:45,774 --> 00:45:48,438
very good job because we get the

1006
00:45:48,454 --> 00:45:50,494
cold open from Vic's

1007
00:45:50,542 --> 00:45:53,432
perspective of the downfall of

1008
00:45:53,456 --> 00:45:56,040
Crowns point and the

1009
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,928
devastation and fast

1010
00:45:58,984 --> 00:46:01,480
forward, that's why any of these

1011
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,336
drugs will work in Gotham, because there's so

1012
00:46:04,368 --> 00:46:07,096
much devastation. People need an escape from

1013
00:46:07,128 --> 00:46:09,776
it. So it's

1014
00:46:09,888 --> 00:46:12,848
leeching onto that vulnerability, which is a

1015
00:46:12,864 --> 00:46:15,540
very illness thing to do. So

1016
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,336
it went on a bit long, but I

1017
00:46:19,368 --> 00:46:22,280
still think that it.

1018
00:46:22,740 --> 00:46:25,052
It served a lot of different purposes.

1019
00:46:25,156 --> 00:46:28,156
>> Will: It did. It did. You're right. I mean, it was. It wasn't. Yeah.

1020
00:46:28,188 --> 00:46:30,200
And when I say, yeah, I don't want to

1021
00:46:30,940 --> 00:46:33,440
dig. I mean, it wasn't that. It was

1022
00:46:33,940 --> 00:46:36,892
a waste, wasted scenes. I mean, everything in

1023
00:46:36,916 --> 00:46:39,612
this show has a meaning to the larger. The larger

1024
00:46:39,636 --> 00:46:42,520
tapestry that they're painting here.

1025
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:44,370
but you're right. I mean, that was,

1026
00:46:46,610 --> 00:46:49,458
especially, like, when she talked about, you

1027
00:46:49,474 --> 00:46:52,346
know, the crime boss for the

1028
00:46:52,418 --> 00:46:54,710
triad, his background,

1029
00:46:55,300 --> 00:46:58,276
and all, and knowing deeper. And then one

1030
00:46:58,308 --> 00:47:00,932
thing, too, that came out. I can't remember when she

1031
00:47:01,076 --> 00:47:03,972
and Oz. I did want to ask you what you thought about this when

1032
00:47:03,996 --> 00:47:06,492
she said this is that. That she's not the

1033
00:47:06,516 --> 00:47:09,276
hangman. And what do you think she was

1034
00:47:09,308 --> 00:47:10,360
getting at there?

1035
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:12,900
>> Sarah : I think she said,

1036
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,122
yeah, That was this episode.

1037
00:47:16,242 --> 00:47:17,262
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

1038
00:47:17,562 --> 00:47:18,302
>> Sarah : When,

1039
00:47:19,632 --> 00:47:22,328
>> Sarah : I also need to know what he said at first.

1040
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,208
>> Will: Yeah, I can't remember. It wasn't. I think. Was it right before they were going

1041
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,120
to find out that with the mushrooms. I can't remember

1042
00:47:28,176 --> 00:47:30,920
when it was. I just. I do remember

1043
00:47:30,976 --> 00:47:33,808
that coming up, and I was just trying to remember.

1044
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,848
Or was it whenever they were. When she

1045
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,822
dismissed Vic from, not being a driver that

1046
00:47:39,862 --> 00:47:42,542
night? Wait a bit. Very

1047
00:47:42,582 --> 00:47:45,542
beginning. But, I mean, I did. Yeah.

1048
00:47:45,702 --> 00:47:48,662
I think that was as they were trying

1049
00:47:48,702 --> 00:47:50,882
to build their alliance and

1050
00:47:51,782 --> 00:47:54,390
the shaky trust that they have with one another.

1051
00:47:54,526 --> 00:47:57,082
>> Sarah : Yeah, I know. I know vaguely

1052
00:47:57,662 --> 00:48:00,188
the line you're referring to, but

1053
00:48:00,350 --> 00:48:03,344
without the context, I can't really have

1054
00:48:03,368 --> 00:48:04,456
a lot to go on.

1055
00:48:04,544 --> 00:48:05,552
>> Will: Yeah, that's right. That's fair.

1056
00:48:05,592 --> 00:48:08,252
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1057
00:48:08,712 --> 00:48:11,558
All right, so before we leave,

1058
00:48:11,630 --> 00:48:13,162
I just want to ask you.

1059
00:48:15,102 --> 00:48:17,532
So, because you keep bringing up Colin

1060
00:48:17,572 --> 00:48:20,258
Farrell, Emmy season next year, you got

1061
00:48:20,290 --> 00:48:22,822
Colin Farrell for this, and then you got

1062
00:48:23,282 --> 00:48:26,166
Pedro Pascal for last of us season two.

1063
00:48:26,314 --> 00:48:28,982
Yeah, but don't worry.

1064
00:48:29,102 --> 00:48:31,670
They're gonna make Pedro be supporting

1065
00:48:31,726 --> 00:48:32,398
actor.

1066
00:48:32,550 --> 00:48:35,254
>> Will: Yeah. They'll make him be supporting actor again, for sure.

1067
00:48:35,358 --> 00:48:37,854
>> Sarah : So that. To guarantee

1068
00:48:38,038 --> 00:48:40,454
that he's able to walk away with something.

1069
00:48:40,558 --> 00:48:41,126
>> Will: Yeah.

1070
00:48:41,254 --> 00:48:44,174
>> Sarah : Like, m my God. But I've been

1071
00:48:44,198 --> 00:48:47,086
thinking this whole time, I'm like, wait. Wait a second.

1072
00:48:47,134 --> 00:48:49,998
Are they both gonna be nominated simultaneously? And

1073
00:48:50,030 --> 00:48:51,246
then what do you do?

1074
00:48:51,374 --> 00:48:54,194
>> Will: Yeah, yeah,

1075
00:48:54,258 --> 00:48:56,702
yeah. Well, hP. HBO has got to make a choice.

1076
00:48:57,962 --> 00:49:00,578
>> Sarah : Well, no, it would make sense for

1077
00:49:00,650 --> 00:49:03,618
Pedro. Joel is technically. He's

1078
00:49:03,650 --> 00:49:04,402
not the lead.

1079
00:49:04,522 --> 00:49:04,938
>> Will: Yeah.

1080
00:49:05,010 --> 00:49:07,722
>> Sarah : Like, it's. It's bellows show, but

1081
00:49:07,842 --> 00:49:10,172
it's, But he,

1082
00:49:12,122 --> 00:49:14,042
Yeah. Anyway.

1083
00:49:14,202 --> 00:49:16,386
>> Will: Yeah, but damn it, if he doesn't get

1084
00:49:16,434 --> 00:49:19,300
nominated, and they scrub. They snub him like they

1085
00:49:19,316 --> 00:49:22,100
did Patty Costa. Don. We riot. That's all I gotta

1086
00:49:22,116 --> 00:49:22,672
say.

1087
00:49:23,292 --> 00:49:26,132
>> Sarah : This is just so many riots happening in the world these

1088
00:49:26,172 --> 00:49:28,196
days. So, so many riots.

1089
00:49:28,324 --> 00:49:28,700
>> Will: Yeah.

1090
00:49:28,756 --> 00:49:29,420
>> Sarah : All right.

1091
00:49:29,556 --> 00:49:32,356
>> Will: Yeah, one. I do have one last thing, too, because I saw this, like,

1092
00:49:32,404 --> 00:49:35,260
picking or kicking around. And I, don't know if you. If you. If you've

1093
00:49:35,284 --> 00:49:38,222
heard this theory, spiral as well. that

1094
00:49:38,270 --> 00:49:41,214
Victor, since this was Victor's episode,

1095
00:49:41,246 --> 00:49:44,160
closed with this, any chance you think he

1096
00:49:44,184 --> 00:49:47,128
is going to end up being Victor size, the serial

1097
00:49:47,168 --> 00:49:50,034
killer? as far as part of Batman scout road

1098
00:49:50,066 --> 00:49:50,722
gallery.

1099
00:49:50,890 --> 00:49:52,798
>> Sarah : So I will be honest,

1100
00:49:53,378 --> 00:49:56,066
because there was this little show called

1101
00:49:56,122 --> 00:49:58,450
Gotham back in the day. I don't know if you remember

1102
00:49:58,514 --> 00:50:01,258
that. Hot, paws of a trash

1103
00:50:01,298 --> 00:50:01,834
fire.

1104
00:50:01,986 --> 00:50:02,568
>> Will: Yep.

1105
00:50:02,568 --> 00:50:05,504
>> Sarah : and actually, I think went on for five or six seasons. Crazy.

1106
00:50:05,656 --> 00:50:05,984
>> Will: Yeah.

1107
00:50:06,016 --> 00:50:08,520
>> Sarah : Yeah. So, But there was a

1108
00:50:08,544 --> 00:50:11,248
character called Victor Zas. Mister Zaz. So

1109
00:50:11,288 --> 00:50:14,040
I. So I kid you not.

1110
00:50:14,104 --> 00:50:17,000
The first episode, as soon as he said his name was

1111
00:50:17,024 --> 00:50:19,828
Victor, I'm thinking to myself, oh,

1112
00:50:20,128 --> 00:50:22,960
so I wonder if this is going to

1113
00:50:22,984 --> 00:50:25,496
turn into, like, that other Victor that I

1114
00:50:25,512 --> 00:50:26,748
vaguely remember.

1115
00:50:29,888 --> 00:50:32,718
So, yeah, I can totally see that

1116
00:50:33,738 --> 00:50:36,626
happening. I mean, that. That

1117
00:50:36,682 --> 00:50:39,490
allows you to see an arc of an

1118
00:50:39,514 --> 00:50:42,370
evolution. I mean, I. People

1119
00:50:42,434 --> 00:50:45,322
keep referencing Breaking Bad

1120
00:50:45,450 --> 00:50:48,274
when they do comparisons to the show and how,

1121
00:50:48,346 --> 00:50:51,236
especially this episode, you got, Walt and Jesse

1122
00:50:51,332 --> 00:50:53,608
and Vicki and Jesse. But

1123
00:50:54,188 --> 00:50:56,612
I think. I think if anything, Vic is

1124
00:50:56,660 --> 00:50:59,302
waltzed. Because Vic,

1125
00:50:59,470 --> 00:51:01,818
there was a chance, but

1126
00:51:02,358 --> 00:51:05,134
the moment his family was

1127
00:51:05,166 --> 00:51:06,618
all stripped from him

1128
00:51:08,678 --> 00:51:11,334
like that, from literally having

1129
00:51:11,406 --> 00:51:13,894
nothing. And then to encounter

1130
00:51:13,966 --> 00:51:16,910
someone who's like, you want something,

1131
00:51:17,054 --> 00:51:18,978
I can help you get what you want.

1132
00:51:19,518 --> 00:51:22,178
Like, it's just this.

1133
00:51:22,808 --> 00:51:24,068
This weird,

1134
00:51:25,358 --> 00:51:27,938
mentorship that's occurring. So

1135
00:51:28,478 --> 00:51:31,368
I don't know. I, think serial

1136
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,052
killer would take it a bit far, but

1137
00:51:34,952 --> 00:51:37,772
I don't think it's. I don't think it's an accident

1138
00:51:38,152 --> 00:51:41,092
when. When you have a character,

1139
00:51:41,392 --> 00:51:44,306
like, when you're in Gotham, and people are

1140
00:51:44,354 --> 00:51:46,698
named certain things, you know.

1141
00:51:46,850 --> 00:51:47,938
>> Will: Fair enough. Yep.

1142
00:51:48,010 --> 00:51:50,182
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. So,

1143
00:51:51,162 --> 00:51:54,110
all right. will, why don't you tell our listeners where they

1144
00:51:54,126 --> 00:51:55,070
can find you?

1145
00:51:55,206 --> 00:51:58,150
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formally known as Twitter, at

1146
00:51:58,206 --> 00:52:00,172
will m. Polk. W I l l m,

1147
00:52:00,172 --> 00:52:01,340
Polk.

1148
00:52:01,492 --> 00:52:03,500
>> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at Sj Belmont

1149
00:52:03,532 --> 00:52:06,236
sjblmt. Please follow our crew on Twitter at

1150
00:52:06,260 --> 00:52:09,260
seenand Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at

1151
00:52:09,292 --> 00:52:12,156
scene underscore n Nerd. And visit our

1152
00:52:12,180 --> 00:52:13,394
website, www. Dot w

1153
00:52:13,474 --> 00:52:16,466
senanerdpodcast.com. but most importantly,

1154
00:52:16,530 --> 00:52:19,506
rate, follow and comment on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube,

1155
00:52:19,530 --> 00:52:21,914
or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.