SNN: Timely Loki 2 x 3 review | Gen V episodes 4 and 5 review!

Loki Recap Leads to Time Variant Theories

Sarah: Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont. And with me, as always, our Mr. Producer, will Polk How are you doing tonight, Will?

Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing? It seems looking forward to talking some Gen V and Loki after our fun little adventure we had in a pre-show.

Sarah : Oh, my God. The shenanigans. Okay, everyone, listen up. if you follow me on know you know I'm a K pop stan. And you know, there's a specific group who they're my number ones, atees and they announced a comeback. And I have secured signed albums by them for the past three comebacks. And unfortunately, right before we started to record tonight, they dropped the signed albums. And Will got to witness me going into war because hello, 82. I'm just going to say fuck you right now, because whatever you did caused this night to be extremely stressful for me.

Will: It was very stressful for Sarah. Trust me, folks, it was. But you know what? I was like we were talking, we were going through and I was like, you know what? This reminds me of the days whenever my football team when my Panthers actually were playoff contenders and actually were able made into the playoffs. I was know, me and my buddies, we used to always just get online and with Ticketmaster and we'd just be working it from both ends. And that's what happened.

Sarah : Yeah, but you know what? This just builds my fear for their tour next year. Get tickets and another tour. My mom has a list of about five dozen Kpop concerts she wants to go to. And as a good daughter, I have to make at least a few of those come true. But I don't know. It took us a half hour to get these damn albums, but that's just because the site was ridiculously slow and kept kicking us out. But we got them.

Will: We got the email confirmation. It's official.

Sarah : When looking at my confirmation sheet, do I notice something where I'm like, I m wonder how many albums I'm actually going to receive versus what I just paid for all of these albums. But I have a month to get that situated, so we shall see.

SAG and studio talks on actor strike have resumed; no new agreement

Sarah : now on to why we're actually here, now that it's almost we've been on the Skype together for almost an hour, we're actually going to do this show because there has been great TV. But before we do, will, while doing that, was also trying to stay on top of the whole SAG and studio talks, updates. And, as the talks have resumed, and there are no updates. Is that correct?

Will: well, of course, they had the negotiations earlier this month and then the SAGAFTRA dropped right when they were seems like they were right there at the edge of a deal. SAGAFTRA dropped another proposal and it just blew everything up. Back on October 11, the, studios did want everyone to come back to the table. So they met today. Obviously no new agreement, but, they did agree to talk again in the next day or so. we're now at the 103rd day of the actor strike. and the studios did propose a quote unquote generous offer, at least in their proposal. And they call it what is being termed as success based compensation. one of the big things has been streaming revenues and revenue sharing and all that, as far as paying residuals and that to the actors, for the programs that have been produced. But, the studios did come up with that. And basically, according to deadline, which I'm reading right now, the reaction was pretty clear out of the gate that it flopped, as far as whenever it was not well received by SAGAFTRA, but at least they did. Neither side blew up things and said tipped their ball and went home. They are agreeing to meet, again in the next day or so to hopefully come up with proposal that will be suitable for both sides. But that's where things are at this point.

Deadpool Three removed from the calendar late last week

Sarah : All right, well, progress nonetheless. I mean, the writers strike that's over. and yeah, we still got some.

Will: Things sort out here, but even so, at least they're back at the table. but the downstream effects have already happened, of course. All late last week, Deadpool Three was removed from the calendar. As far as being released next year, but at least Captain America Four, I think rumor has it, will be moved up to the spot in May when Deadpool Three was supposed to be released because Captain America Four was finished. As far as filming. So it's in post production. So that'll probably will take place. And then, of course, I think yesterday Paramount, basically moved Mission Impossible Eight out to 2025 because it was just about to start filming right when everything went south with the, actors and when they went on strike, and are also apparently going to be renaming it. So there's that. And then a quiet place, I think is moving up. It's done, but it'll probably move into the spot where Mission Impossible was supposed to be. At this point, don't get locked in if you see a release date, just assume that it's going to get moved.

Sarah : Assume the inevitable, but also, depending on.

Will: How negotiations go, mean even TV series, because even if they come to an agreement, I don't know if they'll be able to like Hollywood typically goes on hiatus in November and December as far as filming. So unless they agree to work over the, is stuff is not going to be coming back anytime soon, unless.

Sarah : It'S already yeah, but in the meantime, we do have some great TV going on in the world. there is no transition to this next piece of news, there's a transition after, but honestly, it's not just because he appeared on screen this week in Loki.

Jonathan Majors' criminal case is scheduled to return to Gort tomorrow

Sarah : But we do have to talk about and give an update on the latest with Jonathan Majors criminal case. as his case is scheduled to return to Gort tomorrow, the jury is still out on this whole situation. the MCU has not made any official announcements on his continuation, in his role as well, all of the variants in the world. But for right now, he already shot his scenes for Loki season two. so that's in the can. So we'll see that, and then it's kind of unknown as if he will continue forward in this role or not.

Will: Yeah, from what I gather, he's not anticipated to and expected to show up tomorrow. It sounds like it's another hearing on just, I guess scheduling and evidentiary issues. The Manhattan, DA's office apparently, did filed a pretty significant motion today, as far as least page number, where they did note that there was an incident that occurred in London with a victim, during the time that Loki was being filmed. Now, some reports indicate that the alleged victim in the incident in London was his same ex girlfriend, who is in the subject of the New York case. so there's that, there's also been discussions about whether or not she's going to get charged by police in the New York case. But even if that were the case, the DA's office in their filing today said even if she is charged with assault, they're, not going to be pursuing charges against her. And that was in their filing today as well. So a lot of back and forth is going on in this case. And yeah, we'll see what happens.

Sarah : We shall see. Time will god.

Will: Yeah, there's no easy transition out of this one.

Will: I think the end goal of He Who Remains is preserved

Sarah : It is because obviously we're going to talk about Loki because we just talked about Jonathan Majors. And go figure. His first episode in this season just aired this past week, with episode 318 93, where he plays variant Timely, Victor Timely, he plays and who we meet. this is a good episode. But before we delve into my thoughts about this episode, you rewatched this episode and you told me like, damn, this is well written. I want to know to start us off, Will, why that reaction after watching it a second time?

Will: After rewatching it a second time. And just between just thinking about all the little breadcrumbs, to use the term that was brought up in the episode, I'm really seeing now how they are just really constructing this series. And also something, ah, that I read from the showrunner for season two where he talked about. This is really a second chapter in this book of seasons one and two, being companions to each other, because we did have that ending in season one and there was no time gap or anything led right to the events in season two. And really just how it really is a loop of storytelling where they set things in motion and what He Who Remains has done within the universe, within the universe of the story, sending his plan in motion with this third episode and to ensure that one way or another, this sacred timeline is going to continue. Because, his end goal is to make sure that at the end of time, a version of himself will remain on this sacred timeline. And when he really does all the things within this episode and also within this series, like with the time looping that happened in episode one with Loki, the things we had in episode two with, really fleshing. Out, Sylvie being going back with Brad Wolfe and figuring out that they need Miss Minutes or a variant of Kang to basically open up the blast doors so they can fix the temporal loom, so they could bring all these various blended timelines together as they expand out from the sacred timeline. And then the events of this episode, where Timely, or He Who Remains and Know is the chicken and the they really do feed off of one another as far as Oroboros having the inspiration to write the TVA book. But then he who remains making sure that that book gets sent back to 1868, it's just all those things is just really just well constructed when you just sit back and watch the episodes as they unfold.

Sarah : Your theory, or your interpretation, is that he who remains like that is who Victor Timely becomes a version of.

Will: Think so I think He Who Remains.

Sarah : I guess my question is, did we watch the origin story of He Who Remains, or is it not necessarily that way? Because Victor is just another variant. We watched variant plan B, basically.

Will: Yeah. I mean, basically, at the end of the day, Victor Timely is a variant, of Kang. But I think the end goal, I think, is that the sacred timeline itself is the thing that is preserved, right? He Who Remains endgame is to make sure that no other kings from any of the other parts of the multiverse can get into this sacred universe.

Sarah : His kingdom. He doesn't want everything he built, like, destroyed. I know this is going to happen. So I'm putting this piece in play as to make sure that by killing me, you don't undo too much. Or there's a way that to actually, in this case, there's a way for them to fix some of the repercussions that are inevitable from, my death, which one of them being the loom itself. And where we're at with the loom. And so we have Victor. Yeah, I agree with you. I was listening to, someone react to the episode, earlier today. So I heard a lot of it and I had it in my mind. Like the good writing. I agree. I like the circling, the parallelism that's going on. But I couldn't help but notice some very interesting editing choices. Or just like I don't know, was there a scene or a line where Loki and Mobius knew, that Victor was taking, Renslayer to his lab? And where the lab like, because the last time I feel like we saw them during the getaway was when Mobius came over with a bike, a couple bike, and Loki refused. So I'm telling you, Disney right now, you better have footage of those two riding around in 1893 on that couple bike, and you're just going to release it, like, later.

Will: Totally. This gift, they have to it'll be a part of the outtakes. It definitely will be.

Sarah : I think maybe we all were just slighted by that. So we didn't towards the end, didn't realize and was like, wait a second, how did they know where they were? Maybe somebody told them. I don't just in my mind, it seemed kind of weird that at the end, they showed up at the exact place. Just like with don't, we don't really know. Maybe, she was tracking Renslayer, but we don't really know how she knew where they were. I have a problem with Mobius and Loki. The happy couple they are, they rode that bike real fast. showing, just the logistics of that and a few other, I'm like, interesting. But I don't think upon first viewing, I don't think those are very noticeable flaws. Because at the end of the day, the episode itself is very like, the character development, the story progression kind of masks any flaws it may have, logistically speaking. because we can't show like, a 45 minutes couple bike scene. We got to keep things going. but, yeah, I like what they're doing in terms of everything is working. Like, each episode, as you were pointing out, is building upon each other. I mean, we just got introduced to the Loom and the TVA handbook in the very first episode, and then we get payoffs for that in this episode. and we finally get the reveal of where Renslayer went at the end of last season. And that was to she didn't realize it at the time, to deliver the TVA handbook to a very young Victor timely. who then uses that as an inspiration, or his. So, yeah, I thought that was good.

Sylvie has been on a mission to destroy all variants

Sarah : And then what I also like on top of that is we get Sylvie coming in and doing essentially her whole thing right now is, I'll kill any variant. I don't care. I want to kill any variant. So essentially the whole she would go back and kill a baby Hitler because she knew who he would become. But granted, she didn't actually end up killing Victor. At the end of this episode, she let Mobius and Loki take him. Meanwhile, she literally kicked Renslayer to the end of Time so that she could live happily ever after with the corpse of He Who Remains.

Will: Yeah, to your point about Sylvie, even though she has been used in very good spots this season, like this episode, like you said, she tracked him down. She's had been on a mission to destroy all the variants. But then what was so powerful about that scene between her and Kang was between her and Victor excuse me. Was whenever Victor was starting to plead for him his life and the whole issue of free will and choice and all that and Sylvie confronting the fact that, oh, my God, I've basically taken the place of he who. Remains where I've taken away all free will and become the thing that the very thing that she has basically set her path on as far as trying to destroy. So I thought that was another really strong thing. As far as the writing that I really liked about this, there's just so many things that whole thing getting back to your point, i, pause for a moment. As far as how did the other folks how did Sylvie know where to find him, I think she probably traced, yeah, but that's how she found them. For example, at the World's Fair was again tracing the tempad. So I think that was how, they were able to fund yeah, I.

Sarah : Think I mentioned that as one theory that could be the logical theory that could be thrown out there. I mean, they were trying to trace Renslayer's, temp pad all the way back in the very first episode. And it wasn't until the end of the second episode where no, it was the end of an episode. Minute does the classic AI turn of wanting to become human so that she can live her happily ever after, as ah, He Who Remains girlfriend. Girlfriend.

Will: Girlfriend.

Sarah : Yeah.

Will: Tara Strong went strong, with, Miss Minutes in the voice acting there and really conveying the jealousy. And also just the forced partnership between her and Renslayer, because at the end of the day, she needs Renslayer to just basically deliver the book to help set the mission. Whoever is the author of this plan, whether it's Ravonna and miss minutes given that they know, as noted at the very end of the episode know all of he who remains secrets and why it was such a mistake for him to make a know, make an enemy out of the two people who could bring him. know. I thought that the dynamic between her, Miss Minutes and Renslayer, was one, know, was one of necessity to basically create this branched timeline, especially when she even calls it out, like, look, you're not responsible for this. You're just like the postman, you're just delivering the message.

Sarah : It's interesting how what they did in this episode with the two partnerships is this season, Miss Minutes and Renslayer are on the same team. Now, before they can officially become a partner, they have to realize that the guy that they both want, wants nothing to do with either one of them. Like they're pawns to him. So now they're on the same page. So they're on the same page with their enemy. And so they're united, which parallels kind of the, partnership that we have with Mobius and Loki, where initially, Loki grudgingly was helping Mobius, but now this season, he really is a true partner to So so now this season, we get to see these two different partnerships and how they're both after the same right now, they're going to be after the same thing. Because Renslayer still has some allegiance to the TVA. She has no allegiance to Mobius, but she doesn't want everything to be taken down. she says it herself. I think in this episode, she's Order, but her way of giving order is very different than what Mobius and Loki think need to be.

Will: Come and think of it. I was listening to a review, and someone made a point that she also brought that whole point of order up at the end of season one, whenever she stepped before we realized where she was stepping off to. But she did talk about how she was committed to the TVA and committed to the order of, again, preserving this timeline.

Sarah : Well, just think about in this show, how do we first meet Renslayer?

Will: When we first meet Renslayer in this episode?

Sarah : No, in this show.

Will: In this show. Oh, she was a top.

Sarah : She was she was literally the judger giving order to the time. So it's not just that she keeps saying that, but that's how we are introduced her. And she's very much her way about going about this is, she's going to judge people like, you deserve, you don't deserve. And Loki and Mobius in particular, has always been more of a more creative thinker of like well, more of a lawyer than the think. I think that's very telling to, the whole order. And, I'm glad I thought about that, about how we first met Renslayer. That makes a lot of sense.

Will: Yeah, I guess. And that gets to my point about the writing, because there are names to people Mobius or Boris, but there are definitionals with oroboros. It's a serpent eating a, just but also gets into know whenever Victor was talking about whenever he was doing his prototype Energy Temporal Loom there at the World's Fair. And he talks about the energy and entropy and that kind of, you know, the whole point of entropy is he's trying to keep his life force going, because otherwise, if not, that decay happens. And so you need to have that continual loop. And even, like Mobius, there's the Mobius loop in mathematics. Again, i, think that's why I meant by the show has such strong writing.

Sarah : Right.

Will: Because if you just really take yourself, really just look at the show and how it's constructed, it's all about these various loops, the whole proverbial chicken and the egg. And this episode really demonstrates that with Ravona delivering that book in 1868 to young Victor

Who's behind this master plan on M? I'm confused about it

Will: and then it opens the question I would love to hear from our listeners what their thoughts on it is. Their thoughts on before we get the answer to next week's episode, who's behind this master plan as far as continuing its loops? The know. Is it he who remains? Was it a combination of Rinslayer and Miss Minutes, or just Renslayer herself? Because, again, she wants that order, and she will take these actions to keep things I'm confused. Yeah.

Sarah : Confused. It wouldn't be Renslayer. Renslayer was questioning. She didn't know she was even delivering the book.

Will: Yeah, she didn't know. Maybe and that's the thing that Ms. Menace was maybe alluding to. yeah. And it goes back to the record. I think it goes back to that recording we heard way back at the first of, the series, where that.

Sarah : Was the first episode of the season.

Will: Of the season. Excuse me. Yeah. Season where, we hear that recording. Yeah. And I think that's when, at that point, renslayer knows what's going on and he who remains are having that conversation about this whole plan and stuff. And then because, again, we know how he feels about partnerships. He wiped her mind so she would not know her place in all of this.

Sarah : I don't buy it 100%. I buy it, like, 50 50. Because I can totally see how the fact that he wiped her mind just as many times, if not more, than he wiped Mobius's mind. Yeah, that makes sense. Because I think from their dynamic, I gather Renslayer has been around M longer than Mobius has. But, I don't buy that he told her about this plan for whatever reason. I don't get that sign. And even if he did, and he wiped her mind, it still would have never been her plan. He would have always been the mastermind. Now, Miss Minutes, there is an argument to be made that maybe she's been a part of this plan a lot longer than we realize, too. And maybe it's really her who's trying to extend his life because she's infatuated with him. I buy into that more than I can buy into Renslayer.

If the secret is the wiping of the mind, it's anticlimactic

Sarah : I do want to say, though, if the secret is the wiping of the mind, it's kind of anticlimactic. And here's why it's anticlimactic. Because we just spent last week's episode with all the TVA members talking about their mind just the way it was very unsettling. and it was a very good ending to hear Miss Minute say, like, just wait until I tell you about this one secret I have, that you're not going to like, which makes me think my theory was, oh, they were definitely married at one point. Definitely married, definitely had a family, or she did, but he was obsessed with her and he plucked her right out of that family. because that's another thing so far, we've been alluded to, well, what was Mobius's life like on the internal timeline? What about

Will: A very, that's a very valid theory. and it would track with what we've seen with all these TBA members having prior lives. he who remains plucked them from that, so he could to utilize them for his own. That would, that would be and the other thing too, one thing I thought is maybe that maybe Miss Minutes is a construct of aspects of Renslayer's personality, too. and he remains built, know, he built her to replace Ravonna whenever he wiped her mind to basically be that, I guess administrator time judge for the TVA that she ended up spending her whole existence upholding.

Sarah : Right. Yeah. A lot of partnerships, a lot of webs are woven in this episode. but I do agree with Loki. Thor was not that tall.

Will: That's great.

Sarah : Which, I mean, that's another thing before we move on to Gen B, just to put out there, I like the scene that we had in this episode with the statues, of where of that nordic, right? It's Nordic, right?

Will: Yeah.

I'm curious to see what Loki's resolution is for this season

Sarah : just because I think last week we touched on and the week before, loki literally is a god. literally is a god. And we're dealing with time and bending of wills and very godlike behavior. So I think that they're doing a very subtle thing with Loki, that while we all are focused on the variants and the sacred timeline, I'm very interested to see what the resolution is for Loki at the end of the season, not necessarily the plot, will the TVA be saved? Or any of that. I'm just interested into where does Loki end the season at being who he is and how he got

Will: we will we get an appearance of mean, just know from Thor's standpoint, at least the last thing Thor knows, Loki's dead.

Sarah : I'm not even curious about.

Will: Many, there's just so many different ways that can go with this version of Loki and all. But I agree with you. I love the fact that they did use this as a way just to subtly to remind us that oh yeah, even as Mobius said, oh yeah, you're one of them, you're one of those gods.

Sarah : I forget sometimes.

Will: I forget sometimes. everybody knows about Baldwin or Brave. And that was just a nice little nice, acknowledgement in the MCU that they've been playing around with, introducing this character. But it's not yeah, yeah.

Sarah : It has not happened.

We have two episodes to talk about Gen V this week

Sarah : All right, well, on that note, we are going to talk about Gen V. We have two episodes to talk about. Clearly, as we're stumbling our way through Loki. This should be an interesting conversation. all right, so we start off with the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help us God. In, tech Knight comes to the university. Clearly, I have no idea how to start this conversation as I just start to narrate.

Will: Well, let's just start with the skull fucking.

Sarah : Yeah. I did not see it coming. I did not see it coming. the fetish, that technike has because of a hole in his, brain. Yeah, go ahead.

Will: No, I was going to say there are a lot of holes because we were talking about talking last week with Emma, ah, being in the security guards whenever she emerges at the end of the episode. All that. And that's where we start this week. And really finding out, like, Sam is actually stronger than Golden Boy. And just sort of shetty and Dr. Cordoza, just trying to sort figure out what happened down there in the woods. And then, of course, to bring in pull in Tech Knight. of course, the vault board. No, we've got to keep what happened here under wraps. And of course, Tech Night comes in to find the whole truth. pun intended. there was a lot of I mentioned before how Dean reminds me a lot of Stan Edgar as far as that way of just surviving, being the human that survives in this world of soups and being able to, manipulate them, basically to be a survivor. Because again, Tech thought he was going to come in here and they were going to try to pin the blame on her. Because again, we can't let anything bad happen to these top five. Top five got to stay off. They have to remain untouched. But okay, we'll do that and then we're going to put it on you then.

This episode deals with eating disorders and it's well done

Will: I really like the way they set this episode up.

Sarah : Yeah, this was a, really well done episode. I don't know if there were more holes or more puns at the end of this episode. but it was a lot. This show, much like Loki, just builds off of every single it's just there's a lot of momentum. It doesn't waste time. I mean, it does not waste time at all.

Will: No.

Sarah : I thought we already knew that Sam was stronger than Golden Boy. before this episode, or that was kind of implied. He has schizophrenia, which we basically start to see glimpses of as, we meet some of the puppets. I don't know if that's in this episode. Yeah, it is, because television's Jason Ritter and a puppet and the Deep Skills talks to Sam about killing Dr. Cordoza so he doesn't end up going to hurt Emma. And, Because of that, he bails on Emma and goes to Dr. Kadoza's house. And then Emma ends up getting a hold of Marie and Gang. They end up trying to go and stop Sam. yeah. and then a blackout occurs.

Will: Yeah.

Sarah : No, not before we see something that we're just dumb. Will at the end of the day, we should have seen this. We've seen Ant Man. We know he can get small and he can get large. So why didn't anybody think to, say, point out, well, if Emma throws up to get small, wouldn't she get bigger by eating?

Will: Well, I think that's this show you're right. We should have intuitively figured that out. But I think it goes back to the parent visit because the whole eating disorder I think that's why this show is so good, in the sense that it takes a very serious thing dealing with eating disorders or teen suicide or fill in the blank because they've dealt with a lot of heavy topics in there and put it into this fanciful superhero world. but in case her mom made it be a shameful thing to eat too much and get too big and that kind of stuff. So it didn't even dawn on us to be like, oh, yeah, that's of a power she probably has, because, like, Emma, we've been conditioned as the audience to think that that's actually a bad thing that we wouldn't even consider doing because Emma wouldn't consider doing it until the situation here forced her to do.

Sarah : I just I feel like we got stuck on one eating disorder and not realizing that her whole situation fulfills the spectrum of eating disorder, because overeating is just as much as the disorder as undereating.

Will: True.

Sarah : it's just on opposite ends and has its own consequences.

Will: like I said, I think it's because her mother you're right. We did miss that other aspect of it. But I think the way that you didn't pick up on it at first, early on, because I think we were just sort of filling our way through this series. But then after watching I guess that was the third episode where M, we introduced to her mom, I could see why maybe at least I didn't think of it from that standpoint, but looking at it from a standpoint of, like, there's the other side of the spectrum.

Sarah : Yeah. I think it more had to do with her, that that was Emma's big thing.

The dynamic between Jordan and Marie changes dramatically in this episode

Will: Yeah. That also busted in whenever Marie and Jordan, were about to hook up.

Sarah : yeah. In this episode, talking about these writers are not wasting any time, the dynamic between Sam or no, not Sam, which last week I got really confused because I could have sworn they were called Sam up until this episode, which no, their name is Jordan. Okay. And Will did not correct me last week, so I think he confused as.

Will: Yeah, I realized that as I was listening back through, I was like, oh, yeah, we, misidentified.

Sarah : So Jordan's my favorite character. I still don't know how I got the names that badly. but, but it is what it is. anyway, the dynamic between Jordan and Marie in this episode goes from not very hostile, but despisement, to flirty despisement, to becoming a tag team cock plosion. That that literally does happen there's. A lot of which, you know what, it's the boys universe, so what else can you expect? to a makeout session that quickly gets stopped as M Emma bursts in. But by the end of the episode, they do wake up in bed together. granted. And that's why we were able to watch the next episode after this because yeah, me too. The way this episodes end, it's literally just cuts to black. Like you think something's going to about they're trying to calm Sam down. And next thing you know, cut to Bellak and Jordan and Marie are in bed together. And clearly Marie has no idea what day it is. cut to the next episode. Welcome to the Monsters Club, where we realize that not only Marie doesn't know what day it is, but neither does Andre, Kate, or Jordan. Or Emma.

Will: Or Emma. Yeah, all of them. Yeah. They're all blacked out.

Sarah : yeah, blacked out. Which we think it was Rufus who we do. Who's the victim of the cock plosion.

Will: He's not the victim. He's well deserved rapist. He got what he needed. What he deserved.

Sarah : Well, here's the thing. What I thought was really smart is in the previous episode, we have this interaction between Marie and him where he's a psychic. And then, he does something and next thing we know, it does look like he's about to rape her. Now, luckily, that did not happen, but because we as, viewers are shown that that's why in this episode, kate's whole story is highly like. Now, we don't know if it actually happened, but I would not be shocked if it turns out that Kate made that up as a cover story. Because we do find out by the very end of this episode that she, in fact, is the person who, because of, dr. Professor Shoddy, convinced her to mind wipe all of her. Yeah, it didn't seem like that was the first time he ever tried something like that with another girl. when we saw it in the fourth episode, but at the same time, knowing that it was like Kate, who comes forward all of a sudden says, oh, that happened to me, too, and I was so scared. And then she gets them to focus on Rufus, as opposed to thought. I thought it was a very well done way for not only the characters to logically miss it until the writers wanted them to figure it out, but the viewers as well.

Will: Yeah, they did. I mean, they set that up very well. I, do think he actually did probably mind rape her. And I'll say physically rape her back, because I think they set that up in the episode where she has, him taking the baseball bat to his balls.

Sarah : Oh, is that the same person?

Will: Same person, yeah. He was just wearing the Homelander hat. Make America a greater ginhatt at Homelander. m inspired. So it was the same think that but that but to that point, though, it does add to the misdirection. I think it makes it even more believable that Rufus would have done the mind wipe for all five of them. Yeah. And also and then later, even they carry it further when we see Rufus and Dean talking, whenever Jordan and Emory are walking on campus. So, I mean, they set that up whenever the reveal finally did happen, I was just like, Fuck, y'all got right. because it was so well set.

Sarah : I was just thinking about yeah. And she did that to him because he was talking shit about her and.

Will: Yeah.

Sarah : But also he made a comment about, like, I would even kill myself if I had a girlfriend. Like.

Will: Yeah. And also, I think he initially tried to mess, around. And also, Marie remember he was trying to, mess with Marie then because she was trying to get information about her sister.

Sarah : Then.

Will: This is well back, like, the first couple episodes. They had an interaction early on in the season. Yeah.

Sarah : I'll trust you. I don't really remember it, but clearly, I didn't really put two and two together. That Jumanji. There was the same person. But I'm really looking forward to the next episode, because the next episode is literally called Jumanji. I'm very curious about that. but back to the whole Kate of it all. this character is growing on me just as much, because I didn't see it coming. And I'm curious about what we will learn about, why and how Dr. Shetty got to her, and also how long she'll be on, team. Shetty, shall say.

Marie has blood powers and may be what Dr. Cardosa needs

Sarah : Because the next move, they plant the seed in this episode, that Marie is more powerful than she, and even I think that she is. And she may be the cure, or not the cure, but she may be what Dr. Cardosa needs, as he's been experimenting on all of these soups, or these I don't know if we can call them soups gifted children of V, gen V.

Sarah : To find a virus that will control them. Which makes sense, because Marie has blood powers. And we do see in this episode, she's able to figure out pretty quickly that she has a tracker planted in herself and pull it out. and between that, the dick explosion, the healing or the trying or healing of someone who's been badly cut, her powers are more than just let me cut myself and let this blood whip come out. I think it's interesting that they are doing a good job of peppering in these instances where she has to use her powers or she has to creatively use her powers in a way that I don't think she ever has thought about. I think she's only ever done, unfortunately, the cutting, because that's force. but I mean, logically, she could give people heart attacks she could.

Shetty manipulates Kate because of story about her mom

Will: Mean, which I think leads to a couple of things. First, I want to go back to one point you made about Kate and Ding. Shetty. It goes back to she was able to manipulate her because of the story that we learned about Kate and her telling her brother to go away way back on Parents Weekend and remember her mom. After that, her mother never hugged her again or never touched her good with how manipulative shetty is. And we've seen how she manipulates students because we saw how she did it with Marie. And she'll figure out that weak point that she just uses to get those students to do her bidding. I think that's how she was able to do that. And then you're right about, Marie and just not knowing her full capabilities, her power to the place where she could be like, the, representative, the mind blower who could.

Sarah : Be, oh, the headblower ah, the head floater mind blower. What are you talking about?

Will: as far as the control for the lender, I think she's the benefactor.

Sarah : Yeah, I was just going to ask you, do you think that yeah, because that would make logically because we do get that breadcrumb in this episode, by shetty that use can't experiment on Marie because she has a Benefactor, which would make a lot of sense if it's someone with similar powers.

Will: Interesting.

Sarah : I like that.

Will: It's either her or egg.

Sarah : Yeah, definitely. It's someone we know. I would be shocked if someone we don't know. But this universe is so big and we've seen so many deep, cameos. I know it's not the.

Will: Deep. The deep deep was in the woods.

Sarah : Yeah, well, you don't know.

Andre is the least favorite character on the show, I think

Sarah : but what I also, you know, it's it's I think I mentioned this last week, but I just can't reiterate it enough. And I say this because I want to just spend 1 minute on Andre. out of the gang, he's the least favorite. And it's just because I found it a bit OD how in the previous episode, he was very active and I was like, okay, I can get on board with this. I can even get on board with him and Kate. And I'm still kind of a bit like, yeah, ah, Kate, you fucked that up. But what I did not appreciate was the very next episode, he quickly gives up on trying to find Emma and goes back to just smoking. And then I don't know. I don't know if he's only interesting because of the father, because of his dynamic with his dad, in that generational. And we are dealing with young adults. So the disillusionment of your parents not being who you think they are, that's relatable. But I have yet to really see something in him that is very unique that I'm finding in a lot of these other, characters.

Will: But given what we learned at the end of the episode, I think he's being wiped a lot when they're intimate, when they're having know, because he forgets about Emma and stuff, all throughout, I think Kate, especially once he confided in her that he knows about the woods and all the things that happens with that. And we learned her relationship with Shetty and everything. Yeah. Ah, I look at the victim in all of this, compared, to some of the other the other folks seem to be more in control of their situations. Andre is a victim of the larger story that is know. So for me, it's not a question of whether or not he's one of my think. I think the revelation that we get about Kate at the end of this episode and his reaction, because the thing about Kate's powers.

Sarah : You.

Will: She can ease the pain and stuff. She can't take your memory away. She can just sort of make the memory know, be blocked for a while, black out, but then she can put it back in. And then, of course, and we do see her put all those things that she had blocked out from him back into his brain. And that's when he's like, you're a fucking monster. to this point, I guess he's the most tragic of the characters that we've seen so far.

Sarah : Yeah, that's fair. I do think that she doesn't just ease it and make you forget for a while. She pulls that memory out of you, and then when she wants you to know, she'll put it back in.

Will: But she can control what she does because, with Golden Boy and Sam, she left that pain there. She didn't block it out so that he so I think there is some measure of control there. Okay. And just blacking it you. Whenever we see Sam at the beginning of this episode, kate wasn't able to touch him. So he was still able to remember what all happened that night at Cardosa's House. Unlike, everybody.

Sarah : We don't we don't know why he wasn't mind wiped and.

Will: Everybody else was, I think. Didn't he get out trying to remember how the fight went down, but in the fourth episode, but somehow went down.

Sarah : They went outside.

Will: Oh, yeah.

Sarah : They were about to square off. Big Emma comes.

Will: Yeah.

Sarah : Cut to. So we, we weren't shown at all, from what I recall, of how Sam still ended up leaving while everyone else and I don't know how Kate managed to mind wipe so many people at like that's what I kept thinking about the way they cut doesn't she doesn't have a power where she grows extra limbs? I'm pretty sure.

Will: No, let's see. But I, know what Sam, when he was throwing whenever he was going berserk there in I mean, didn't Andre get knocked out? So she was able to like maybe she was able to touch no, because.

Sarah : I thought he still came outside with them.

Sarah : They did throw a fridge at Sam. There was a lot of in house fighting. Then they moved to the backyard.

Will: Right.

Sarah : All I remember is really Emma getting.

Will: Oh, no, she got big and then was able to pin him down and then everything.

Sarah : Like, I don't think she ever touched Sam. She just was trying to talk him out of, because even in his mental state, it still seems like despite all of that, emma's the one who can talk him down. So she was doing that. I feel like Marie was about to cut herself and then cut the.

Will: No, she had cut herself because she had wrapped him up in the blood.

Sarah : I remember that in the house.

Will: Yeah, in the house.

Sarah : Outside of the, and they cut to black outside of the and inside the house. He does yell at Kate. I don't know where Kate is. Once they move. It's just it's a very well structured, sequence. Just because even as viewers, you're left being wait, wait, we still don't technically know how this fight resolved.

Will: Yeah, we don't.

Sarah : just like the characters, even though they figured out, like, they got mind wiped, they don't know exactly what was wiped or why it was wiped. and I'm guessing now that we're talking about Kate's powers and how it seemed at the end of the episode, how she is able to replant the memories that were wiped that she took out. I'm sure she's going to be filling in in a lot of blanks, to get back some points. But we shall, we exchange one couple, for a new couple as Jordan Marie.

Will: I'm curious about this dynamic in this relationship

Sarah : That is definitely a thing. I just want to shout out my girl Emma also has the line sins. I'm just going to say that. But them friend. Them friend. Tell me about your them friend. I can't deny that. I'm really curious about this dynamic in this relationship just to see what they choose to explore in it. I found it interesting how they changed to the boy version right before the first kiss. But they wake up in bed. It's the girl version. And I think that's why in the fourth episode or the fifth episode, jordan was so hesitant, is because I'm still sticking like, they prefer themselves as a girl, but they think they have it stuck in their mind that Marie only likes the boy version. But I'm thinking to myself, you really need to reflect. How many times have you interacted with Marie as the boy version? Not that many.

Will: Not that many.

Sarah : I don't think that's what she's I think, though, at the end of it, if they truly if this is a ship, a real ship, then it's going to ultimately I don't care which version. I like both.

Will: I completely agree. I think they'll go that route as well. yeah, again, like I said, the show really does a great job of tackling things because speaking of Emma, I think, when she finally because of Big Emma, she cracks the hundred as far as the top and all the social media likes. And this show has been all throughout, even going back to the boys and Starlight using social media. It's just so topical and so timely as far as just like, the utilization of media and manipulation of media and branding and all that kind of stuff. And we see it like there at God. You with Tech Knight in the fourth episode. In this episode. Can't touch those five. October has been, a great month of TV as far as the superhero shows.

Sarah : Yeah, definitely. And on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

Will: Yes, you can find me on Twitter. at willmpolk. -W-I-L-L-M-P-O-L-K. You can find me at SJ.

Sarah : Belmont S-J-B-E-L-M-O-N-T. Please follow our crew on Twitter at scene and Nerd friend us on Facebook. Follow us on Instagram threads at scene underscore N, underscore Nerd and visit our website, WW scenanderdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate follow and comment on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcasts. Good night. Geek out.

Will: You're welcome. M.