Scene N Nerd | Farewell Doom Patrol: A Final Tribute and Review and News of the Week!

Next week will be our last show of 2023

>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd I'm your host, Sarah Belmont. and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Paul. How are you doing tonight, will?

>> Will: Doing very well, sir. How are you doing this evening?

>> Sarah : I'm doing fine.

>> Will: That's good.

>> Sarah : We're saying goodbye to a series that we've been talking about for about four years now. Four to five years. Because we had that blackout period.

>> Will: We did it.

>> Sarah : Next week will be our last show of 2023. And we got some lists.

>> Will: Got some lists. Checking it twice. Yeah. Ah, I added another film to my list this week. but, yeah, it's hard to believe that this is our penultimate show for the year.

Leave the world behind us on Netflix is an apocalyptic drama thriller

>> Sarah : See what happened to don't tell me what's on your list, because now I kind of figured when you dm'd me about the list, which, for those listening, it's leave the world behind, because he just watched that this week.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And in my defense, I'm not spoiling this, but on the rundown, it even says spoilery free thoughts about leave the world behind from. So, will, besides really enjoying, the movie, why don't you share your thoughts about it without any additional.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So leave the world behind us on Netflix. I think it had a limited theatrical release as well. it stars Marshalla Ali, Trila Roberts, Ethan Hawk, Kevin Bacon's in it, and a couple other. Can't, remember any kids who were their actors who play the kids of, Ethan Hawke and Julia Roberts. But, basically it's, a film that was based off a book of the same title. Came out, I guess, around 2020. And, it's produced by, actually, Michelle and Barack Obama, and directed and written by Sam Ishmael, which anyone who's been listening to us for some time knows that, we were big fans of Mr. Robot, even though, speaking of endings, ended some years ago. But, as far as the plot, I won't give into anything that you haven't probably heard, either reading a summary on Netflix or come across social media, whatever. It's basically an apocalyptic drama thriller where, an incident occurs and the two families, that are subject to the film, they're in New York City. And, they all end up in a vacation home, after this apocalyptic event happened. And the cool thing about the story is that it gives you little nuggets about what it could be, but it also leaves it open to the viewer's imagination as well. So you do get nuggets of news reports and things that happen. But at the same time, it leaves things open for interpretation. Julia Roberts and, ethan Hawke and their family ends up in this vacation home. Marshall Harla, Ali's character, and his daughter end up come to the home. And again, I won't say more than that, but they're together. And then it just basically is exploration of what happens to humanity when something like this occurs. I would say it's about a two and a half hour long movie. I broke it up. And I will say that the set up is a bit of a slog. I'm not going to say it wasn't. it takes a minute for things to go, but then once we get to that really critical point, I guess about almost to the midpoint in the film or so, maybe in the first 45 minutes or so is when it really starts to go. And once it goes, it just sucks you in. Because I was planning on just, like, probably breaking it up over another night. Next thing you know, I'm, like, done watching it because it just pulled me in. the ending, again, spoiler free, but, you probably have seen some chatter if you are very active on social media about this film. As far as the ending, it's definitely one of those endings that will either work for you or it will not. But again, it leaves things open for the viewer to decide what happens. Which for me, it was like, I really enjoyed it, and strongly recommend it to folks, especially if know, as far as getting into the cinematography and the directing and stuff. Lot of takes from Sam Ishmael. If you've watched Mr. Robot, or if you've watched, ah, homecoming, which was another show with, you know, a lot of those themes and things that those director trademarks show up in this film. like I said, I really, really enjoyed it.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I kind of wish you didn't tell me that he directed it. I kept seeing advertisements, and in the back of my mind, I'm like, oh, that's the one I should sometime randomly just throw on in the background. And so once you told me he directed it, I'm like, oh, man, I wonder if I'd have watched it without knowing, would I have picked up on the fact that it was directed by him? Because he definitely has a signature style. And we saw that clearly clear as day when we started watching the homecoming. And we're like, yeah, this dude. but no. So that is a recommendation I did throw on a different movie randomly. I don't know if it was before, when we recorded last week, I think it was. But, because of TikTok, I randomly threw on the movie may december.

>> Will: Oh, yeah.

The film is about a woman who raped one of her students

>> Sarah : Have you heard about this movie?

>> Will: Ah, I have. Mostly because of the Golden Globes.

>> Sarah : But, it's not a musical, it's not a comedy. It is bizarre to me how it ended up there because this is an art house much and the subject matter is essentially a quote unquote method actress played by Natalie Portman. goes and, studies for a role. She's doing. these a couple who it's not. We're all. So for those who have forgotten about this happening, but there was an incident like a long time ago between a, married 30 something like, I think late 30 year old woman. And she was a teacher and raped one of her students, but ended up pregnant, went to jail, came out of jail, still went back to the kid. They ended up getting married when he was legal and had a family and yada, yada, yada.

>> Will: I think they're still together. Yeah.

>> Sarah : no, I actually heard that she died in 2020. And right before that, they separated.

>> Will: Okay.

>> Sarah : which makes sense now. Again, it's not beat for beat, the same relationship or even the same story. Because in my mind, I'm watching this movie and I'm thinking, like, what's with the pet shop? What happened there? I thought this woman was a teacher. And it's like, no, not in this. This is not an actual. It's not about that story. But they used it as like, I don't know if you want to say inspiration to, for setting up this. plays like, Natalie Portman has two gears. She either has her commercial girl next door gear or like the black swan in her. And in this, she's definitely doing black swan.

>> Will: Okay.

>> Sarah : I think it's Julianne Moore who plays, she who shall not be named. and then, one of the actors from Riverdale, like Charles Malton plays, the husband. He delivers a very good performance. And all three of them do very good for the roles that they are. He is more impressive just because of the complexity that you're seeing and what he was able to, emote. And there is one line that is so chilling. And I didn't realize that it was taken, while watching it, I did not realize the line, was taken from an interview with the real life couple.

>> Will: Oh, wow.

>> Sarah : and so I'm watching it, I'm like, whoa, that's really good dialogue. And then I find out because somebody did a screenshot comparison of the interview in that scene. And that's why it was so, like, it hits you in the gut, because a version of this actually did happen in real life. And that's how fucked up this woman is. For her to say something like that and to be in denial. I do have to say I think it was hyped up more for me, because I thought the whole actress Natalie Portman's role was just like, okay, whatever. I don't care about this. I'm very interested in what's going on over here. It's really fascinating what they're talking about.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : but I also understand that, they didn't want to focus on that. They wanted to kind of use, I don't know, somewhat of a filter to look into that, but not actually go there to that kind of gross, toxic, inhumane, arguably type of relationship to have that happen. It's just all fucked up.

May December is nominated for best musical in comedy at the Golden Globes

Anyways, I'm spending way too long on this, but all I have to say is, when I saw and heard about it being nominated for best musical in comedy, I watched that entire movie. I did not laugh a single time. So I have no idea who would determine that to be a comedy. And the subject matter, like, you are fucked up if you think that is.

>> Will: It is. It is the Golden Globes. And even though they have changed ownership because of all the fiascos that the Hollywood Farm Press association had in the past, and I think they've been acquired by CBS or I think Dick Clark productions or something. So, whenever you mentioned that, I think I heard on one of the podcasts we listened to, mutually listened to about May December and why they're like, why is it in that category with the Globes as musical comedy? I think I did see like, yeah. So I was like. And then when I actually pulled up the list of all the other films that were nominated in that category and also just the Globes, period. And I think it's just one of those things. Like, I think the Globe is just like, you can't put this in. We only have x number of spots for, like, just general best motion picture. For know, when you look at those films, like Anatomy of Moon, Oppenheimer, et cetera, they just sort of lumped it in with the other.

>> Sarah : There's always one that this happens to, but I've never seen it to this degree. This one really stood out just because, in the past, it's been like, that was kind of funny. But no, this one really isn't funny. I think that's why there's so much more of an uproar about this, because, as I was saying before, the subject matter alone, why, there's nothing funny about that. And there was definitely not a breakout musical moment in it. So I'm very confused around that. And at the same time, to your point about, well, they do this or they find themselves doing this because they only have a limited number of spots for best picture. So does the Oscars. 99% of the time, it's all dramas, and this is an award show. There's limited spots for a reason.

I was surprised to see how absent ironclaw was from all of these films

I was also surprised when I was looking through the list, and I don't want to necessarily go through all of them, because these days, I don't really care. But for everything I've been hearing about this movie, especially the performances within it, I was surprised to see how absent ironclaw was from all of the.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. Especially. I've been hearing amazing things about ironclaw and.

>> Sarah : Yeah, it's like efron in.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. Hopefully they'll get some. Yeah. Because even the, you know, it's just sort of like, okay, we're just going to go with the ones that I think Jeff Snyder used the term groupthink, and he's mean. It's just like, we're just going to go with the popular or the herd mentality as far as some of these with these films, and some good ones are being left off. And ironclaw sounds like definitely be one of.

Netflix released its most viewed programs for the year this week

>> Sarah : Yeah, sorry, I was just thinking about how somebody, was talking about how Netflix released the most viewed programs on the platform for the year. Have you heard what the number one.

>> Will: know, I had looked at it earlier and I was going to m put it on the list. yeah, Netflix did this week, dropped, all the metrics.

>> Sarah : Looking it up. Right.

>> Will: No, I had it.

>> Sarah : It is off the top of my head.

>> Will: I know you do? I remember the glory was one of them.

>> Sarah : glory. I think it came in at number two or number three.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I know Bridgerton was one up there pretty high. I can't remember the first one.

>> Sarah : Well, I think it's Charlote. Yeah, it's Bridgerton, but it's also not Bridgerton. Like. Yeah, which I watched. I was actually surprised by how many of them I did watch. I was surprised. So I just need to understand we're talking about things that were also released within the same year because everyone was going off not too long ago about how many people were on Netflix watching suits. 70,000 episodes of suits. And so I was thinking oh, that's going to be number one. But I'm pretty sure this is also, like, things that were also released in the same year, but it was night agent.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I also don't remember anyone talking about this.

>> Will: No, I don't either. Yeah. so I guess Netflix. I guess it's one of the things that has come out from. One of the good things from the strikes is, basically being more transparent. I mean, it's the first time they've dropped their metrics publicly. and it was like, I guess, 18,000 total movies and seasons of tv shows. And this is just for the first half of 2023, so it's not even a full year. but, yeah, I guess that was some of the things that we just talked about and also just, Yeah, suits wasn't one of them, considering it seems like everywhere you turned, it was just, like, suit. Suit. Suits.

>> Sarah : Thinking about the list, all those shows we just named were also released this year. So I'm pretty sure that list was of the most streamed shows on Netflix that also came out in 2023. Because suits technically didn't start on Netflix. It already had an audience beforehand. That's why they made, like, eight seasons of it. And then it just entered, like, syndication. Now it's there.

>> Will: But it was like they released everything. Not only the things that came out, the first part that were released, date, it's like everything. But interestingly enough, the office is still. It's not so high in the US, but apparently globally, people still outside of the United States are still fascinated with the office, which I guess was the suits before the suits. As far as Netflix, people rewatch it. Old.

>> Sarah : Mean Seinfeld. I remember one time on holiday, randomly, because Seinfeld was on Netflix, we ended up watching old episodes of Seinfeld. Like, just randomly. That's usually what it's late night television. It's like what Nick at night used to be back as a. I'm. I'm up all night, so might as well put on a really old show that I've seen a thousand times. But, hey, it's what it is.

Captain America four is going through more reshoots and adds an additional writer

Captain America four is going through more reshoots and adds an additional writer.

>> Will: Yeah. So, just real quick, superhero news from the Marvel side. Well, I guess we had a couple of things from Marvel this week. One was this one. And, yeah, of course, we all know that Captain America four got bumped from summer, to February of 2025. And, typically, these movies always have reshoots, but I guess it just didn't test well, and I guess given Marvel has really no margin for error, other know at all at this point, because I think, folks have know we won't beat that horse to death anymore. But bottom line is they brought in the writer from, Moon Knight. Actually, one of the supervisor producers, Matthew Orton, is going to, come in and write some additional scenes for the reshoots. and they're apparently going to start filming that first part of this upcoming year.

>> Sarah : also, Marvel Studios has provided several animated show updates, during the screenings of what if season two, including eyes of Wakanda.

>> Will: Yeah, eyes of Wakanda. I mean, there really wasn't much other. That was part of a sizzle reel that dropped during the, screening. Not, too many details other than that it's going to chart some of the previous history, of Wakanda and wakandans, searching for, artifacts made of vibranium. And so that's the only detail that was really given out about the show. but beyond that, not much as far as when it's going to come out or anything like that. None of that, because it just really sounds like it's in early stages of development. But I think Ryan Coogler is going to be a part of the series, though. Cool. Yeah. Then the other two. Other two things. Oh, I didn't know if you were going to do whatever wanted me to. Yeah.

>> Sarah : I thought you were just going to go through the list.

>> Will: Yeah, well, I didn't know if you want. Anyway, I'll just quickly go through the list. Yeah, I mean, most folks probably know this already. The x, men animated series 97, is continuation of the series. Part of that sizzle reel had gambit and Cyclops and, Wolverine showing up. And it is coming out next year, 2024. And then, the Spiderman show, animated show, originally called Spiderman Freshman year, has been retitled you're a friendly neighbor at Spiderman. And they showed Peter in a proto spider Spider man suit. and it's also coming out next year. But nothing about Marvel zombies.

>> Sarah : Nothing about Marvel zombies. Thank God. Got enough zombies going on.

The National Film Registry has added 25 more films this year

All right. the last bit of news is, will just wants me to say that the National Film registry has added 25 more films.

>> Will: This is one of the Library of Congress. started in 1989, actually started cataloging films of culturally, historically, and aesthetically significant films that are at least ten years past their release date. and, yeah, they announced several ones this year. And I guess the reason why, it was just kind of interesting for me, from a standpoint of like, I thought some of these films were already in the registry. Like, the nightmare before Christmas. It's just now, like, getting into the National Film Registry. I thought it was already in there. Terminator, two was one. Terminator two, yeah. Home alone was also, selected this year. Actually, the Turner classic movies was airing the, selection ceremony tonight, Thursday, December 14, as of the date of this recording. but, Apollo 13 is another one.

Which MCU film is part of the film registry

But got a trivia question for you.

>> Will: Which MCU film is part of the registry?

>> Sarah : So it had to have come out ten years. And you said MCU specifically?

>> Will: Yes. It has to be at least ten years old and be culturally, historically or aesthetically significant.

>> Sarah : Iron man, really?

>> Will: You're correct. It's Iron Man.

>> Sarah : I honestly did not know that. But, I was thinking Avengers would be too easy. And I think everyone ironically, and I think I have mentioned this during previous recordings, I did not see Iron man in theaters. I did not see it when it first came on on video. I saw it like a good five years after the fact. I'm pretty sure my first MCU movie. I know for sure that my first MCU movie in theaters was, Captain America two.

>> Will: Okay.

>> Sarah : I missed the entire first phase. I didn't. I'm pretty sure I didn't even see Avengers. I think I started to look. No, Avengers came out like, what, in 2015?

>> Will: No, it was like around. Yeah. So Iron man came out in 2008, and it was part of the class, of 2022. As far as getting entered into the.

>> Sarah : film registry, is Dark Knight in the film registry? I would assume so.

>> Will: I need to check. I would think if it's not, it'll probably be nominated and entered very soon, I would think.

>> Sarah : it's weird to me to think that Iron man would get nominated before Dark Knight, though.

>> Will: Yeah. But I guess the Iron man. Well, again, given that Iron man is the class of 2022, by that point, MCU has really developed into the creature, the entity that we know that it is today.

>> Sarah : So I think that's probably Oscar. Yeah, there is that dark knight. I totally understand what you're saying about Iron man in that time, but Dark Knight is always in the conversation when people talk about best comic book movies of all time.

>> Will: Yeah, I know it's on the American Film Institute, probably top 100 for sure, but. Yeah, that's a very good point. I have to look it up and I will follow up next week,

>> Sarah : On our final episode, and I'll just say it right now. I don't know. But do you think Black Panther will end up in,

>> Will: Yeah, people can actually nominate and I'll drop a link in the show notes, but you can suggest films for the registry and you can actually vote on films for the registry.

>> Sarah : Spiderman into the Spiderverse.

>> Sarah : No, it will never be on the list.

>> Will: m.

>> Sarah : Okay, who has a better chance, Spiderman into the Spiderverse or Spiderman across the Spiderverse?

>> Will: Well, it's incomplete.

>> Sarah : No, I call foul. I call foul. Okay.

>> Will: I think the first one will.

>> Sarah : Yeah, Black Panther is great. I totally understand the significance of it, but that third act is weak. That third act, really, it drove me. So if Black Panther can get in with a third act like that, then I think across the spider verse deserves it more than into the spider verse. Incomplete or not, just because that is a damn well put together sequel. Like, it's in the middle of two bookends and it fills it out perfectly. And I think it surpassed, complete or incomplete.

The Lord of Rings animated film is nominated for best animated film Oscar

Everyone knows the best movie in the Lord of Rings trilogy was the second one. Okay, two towers. the first one, too much. Too much walking. Too much walking and talking. The last one, way too many endings that had like a dozen endings for one movie. And it just went on and on and on. The middle one, it was like, we're already here. We're going to get into the action. There's going to be this awesome fighting sequences that I can't remember right now and a lot of mud. And we introduced Gollum. Gollum's very prominent in the second one. And it's just good. It's just good. And then you're left knowing more to.

>> Will: Mean, I could, I could see from an aesthetic standpoint as well as cultural. Yeah, we'll have to have this conversation ten years from now. But, I think it definitely will have a very good, has a very strong case for getting in. As far as being selected. People probably will look back at both. I mean, quite frankly, the trilogy, and just sort of see how it took comic book animation movies to another level.

>> Sarah : Yeah. And it's going to go home with that Golden Globe and going to get the Oscar for best animated film. And if it doesn't, because if it's the middle child, I call foul. Foul. I call off sides for anybody. I don't watch football, but because of Taylor Swift and because of Travis Chelsea, I don't watch football, but I always see what's going on with the chiefs every week. And boy, oh, boy, the offsides, like, call Jesus Christ. Oh, boy, what a bunch of. I really had. Up until this past week, I really had a lot of respect for Patrick Mahones. I knew Patrick Mahone's name well before I knew Travis Kelsey's name. And I knew Andy Reed because my dad is from Philadelphia. So one plus one equals I. And I have three brothers. For those who are listening, I have three brothers. I grew up watching football on Sundays. I grew up knowing a general idea in my adult life. Do I? No. But it's also going into this week. I had a lot of respect for them, but, Boy, did they lose it because what a bunch of poor sports, poor sportsmanship, the biggest turn off. You're getting all these new fans because of Taylor Swift. You're getting all these new eyes and a game and a call does not go your way and you're going to be like, oh, but it was. No, no, there is no barely about it. It was off sides.

>> Will: It was off sides. I've just been loving all the videos of Patrick and putting a muppet voice over him.

>> Sarah : Yeah, poor, the unfortunate thing is he's now just going to be a meme. And it'll take so much longer for people to forget about this than any future Super bowl wins or any future accolades he gets. He'll always be one of the first things that comes to mind when you say Patrick Mahomes will be that off sides was he was looking at it like, oh, everyone loves Travis. And it was a big play for him, and so he's going to stand up for his friend. It's like, that's not how you play this. You should have talked to Taylor's pr team because they would have told you how to play this. Oh, my God. and we're spending a lot of time on the news and a lot of time talking about football, of all things, because it's not that I don't want to talk doom, patrol.

Brendan Frazier: I am glad this series has ended

It's also that, I am glad this series has ended. it's bittersweet because for as much as the writing has not been the greatest, I do have to say to have the last line be from Cliff, and I'm already jumping all the way to the end. Forgive me, I do these things. But for have the very last line of the show be from Cliff, who just witnessed watching what will happen to his grandson, what'll happen to his daughter, a, life, essentially play out. And then to be like, I'm finally home. And then to shut down, I thought that was a perfect ending.

>> Will: It was so beautiful. It was. I was a mess. I was, Even now I'm getting like, literally every time I think, literally this week because I watched it earlier in the week and every time I thought about that ending, I don't know. I don't know if it's just as I get older, I just get more sentimental or what. But, I was just like, man, this year there have been several things as far as shows we've covered that got wrecked. Me emotionally. And that was one of them. because it was such a powerful, especially, you know, because it was the bookend of know. It was appropriate to end a series with Cliff because he was the first character we met at the beginning of the, standout. Yeah, sure.

>> Sarah : I mean, hate him or love him, it's Cliff. It's Brendan Frazier. And he's the one who stayed consistent throughout the entire show, but also didn't become a Larry where he just got tired of it.

>> Will: Yeah. And also, let's give some kudos to, Riley Shanahan, who was the body of Cliff because he also, Brendan did the tremendous voice work and it was a big part of the know, the work that he did on this show. But Riley, you know, just doing the body and the mechanics and the body acting and even Matthew's up with Larry. Both of, know it takes a lot to convey the emotions because I'm sure Britain is probably looking at him whenever he's probably doing his voice recordings, possibly, for the mean. It was just such a real blending of that.

With the death of Doom Patrol, that means it's the end of DC

And also other thing I thought, too, with this show, it's bittersweet, but also it's like the end of a chapter of DC, too. big picture because this was, like you said earlier when we started recording this evening, this premiered like four, five years, four and a half years ago or so. And it was like one of the flagship shows of the DC universe app. It's one of the four. And it was the last one because we had doom patrol, titans, swamp thing and, stargirl.

>> Sarah : Yeah. The first time we saw it was actually on titans.

>> Sarah : We were right. I don't know if we said this on the podcast. I do know that we talked about this. But the butts did save the day.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Did save the day. And then Cliff would argue with. And then. But then again, doom Patrol also, there would be no zombie butts if it wasn't for Doom Patrol because they kind of released it. And it's a circle, never ending circle. Of it made sense listening to that entire conversation. I think that sums up the show in a nutshell. I'm pretty sure that's what happened in the season one finale where the events of that first season, none of what would have happened had Doom Patrol actually not been the way they are.

>> Will: We wouldn't have roaches making out.

>> Sarah : Know how to start a fire, and then eventually we'll put it out in the most bizarre way. shout out to Rita, who I kind of figured in the first episode would die, eventually. I was surprised, though, how they did it just because it wasn't that she died in battle or anything. it's that they end up getting all of their immortality back because Immortus, who I don't even want to talk about because I have so many issues with that character, but ends up finding success in the time stream with her butts, her zombie butts and their buttiful choir. I'm not sure if she name dropped what their band named. So as repayment for all this success, she provides all of doom patrol with, finger or toenails that they have to eat and then they get their longevity back. And, unfortunately, Rouge is too late to give it to Rita, who's already become a ghost and then makes it very clear after, like, 25 minutes that she does not want them to go to the underworld and save them. And with the death of Rita, that means it's the end of Doom patrol, which I thought it was also kind of fitting, just because there's something about Rita who she, I didn't like her character in the first season, but she definitely grew and became, someone who I really respected, especially her dynamics with each of the characters. And her farewell just reminded me that of a conversation we had probably in season two where Larry works when he is with Rita. There's something about. And for, I think, seasons three and four, for whatever reason, the writers stopped pairing them up. And that just drove me crazy where I was like. And I was reminded in this when they had their farewell, their separate farewell. And I'm just like, see, that's what I've been missing. I've been missing this dynamic because she did see him and he saw her. and he's gay. So I'm not talking, like, romance here, but there was a pure friendship, probably the purest out of all of these, members of Doom Patrol. And so I really appreciate that scene. But at the same time, as a viewer of the entire series, all I can think is why now? Why you gave it to me, first two seasons took it away. I complained about it, and then you're like, oh, and then we're going to kill her. But they're going to have their friendship moment.

>> Will: Yeah. Even within universe, they do address that point, with the estrangement that they had, especially, with him not supporting her for team leader. And also with that third season, that was really when she and Rouge really started developing their pairing and relationship. I guess it was one of those things like, okay, we're going to take Larry in this one direction. We're going to take Rita. And I think Rita, I think they needed to separate them, because you are right. She definitely showed the most growth of the core group from where we saw her at the beginning of the series to the end, where she then becomes, basically, you had Victor, who is know, superhero, traditional superhero, and Rita, who learned how to be the superhero leader of the group. I think she needed to be separated from Larry, I think because Larry separated himself from her, I think is more so than she separating herself from him, because of his usual self loathing, hate, self diaper cloud every single day. I love how Jane and Cliff called him out on that, too, whenever they were having that discussion at the end there while they were waiting to die about, Larry, give it. so I did like that they did sort of recognize that, and then they did have an amends there in those episodes. But the thing that. Speaking of Rita, I think the thing for me, as I was watching these last three episodes was I felt like she got sidelined. and I think I understand why, since she was the oldest of them all, made sense why she aged faster than the rest of the group. But, I just missed her presence because she really did just like you said, just grew so much as a character that by the end, I was just like, where's Rita? I need Rita. I need more of.

Jane's ending this season just felt anticlimactic to me

>> Sarah : So it's interesting how, Jane, I remember first season, stole the show for, and arguably, I think it's underground, patrol. I mean, we all know, for those who have been listening to us talk about this show for as long as we have, everyone knows our favorite episode is group therapy patrol. from the first season, I'm pretty sure it's called that or therapy patrol. But I do remember the penultimate episode, I believe, is the underground episode, and that one just blew me away. And it's a very important episode. And this season, especially in the second half of the season and the finale, man, they did a Larry on Jane where I was like, I don't care. and I don't know. This might be bad of me to say, it just felt anticlimactic. where, for whatever reason, her storyline, it makes sense what happens about how the underground kind of come together, and they accept that the childhood trauma that occurred with Kay actually occurred with all of them, even though they were manifestations after its occurrence. But now that they've all, including Jane herself, have accepted that, no, that happened not just to kay, but to all of us. We are one. We're the. Yeah, you. You get a sense, like, she found closure, she found peace, and is at one with everything. and now she gets to go and do fun space things with Casey. So that's cute. But at the same time, I don't know. It's just Cliff's ending, Rita's ending, both hit me a lot more and stood out to me a lot more than Larry's ending, than Jane's ending. And then Victor's was kind of like, okay, but Victor is also. How about this? How about you share your thoughts on Jane, and then we can talk about Victor a little?

>> Will: I do.

I was okay with the ending for Victor Stone. And I think the third episode in the penultimate

I did want to speak on Jane before we got too far, because there are a couple of things I agree with you in the sense that it was the predictable ending for the character, for all in the underground to make peace. We saw that coming in the pieces whenever Cliff and Jane tried to go to Florida, in tomb patrol in episode ten. And she started getting the flashbacks as far as all the other person, 65 personalities being subjected to being molested, and then carried it forward to episode eleven with the chief in those recording sessions. Because, like you said, I think it was the first and maybe even part of the second season, when we saw those sessions with the chief, and speaking to Jane and learning more about what was going on with. Know, whenever they said the kaleidoscope. And I think the third episode in the penultimate, I was like, okay. And then we saw them at the beginning of the finale working together and the powers being manifested and used to fight mortise. I thought that was, Was. I was okay with the ending. The thing that did get me with Jane's ending or Kay's ending was hurried relationship with space. know, I think it was either. I think it was the third season where she had the Shelley Byron relationship in the fog.

>> Sarah : M probably. I don't.

>> Will: Yeah, I thought that was going to be. Because that was the one relationship I thought that was where they were going to maybe would have gone with Jane. Because I know if I recall with their interactions and stuff, it was pretty intense relationship and, and maybe they just planted the seed there so that whenever Casey showed up, we did see that last, when we were discussing the musical episode last week with those numbers and their pairing there, there was definitely the romantic, sparks between the two characters. So maybe that was, you know, maybe Shelly was just sort of setting the stage for, like, know, spacecase did show up. That's how she and know ended up being together in the capsule, which conveniently had the dimensions of the apartment. Jane was looking.

>> Sarah : yeah. And then to go back to, his, his ending was fine. Victor has always been, he's been a part of, doom patrol, but at the same time, he's like the cousin.

>> Will: He's the normie.

>> Sarah : Yeah. He ends up living with his aunt and uncle for a summer. His adventures, these last three episodes in particular, really, that's what, stood out to me in terms of Victor, where he's not rapidly aging like the rest of them because he doesn't have longevity. He was, cyborg. He was this unique fixture of real superhero and doom patrol put together. And I think that's why he worked once he did, fully, become a part of the team. And you kind of needed that in this type of show where you needed that member who fit but didn't fit. So could be semi used as an avatar for the viewers themselves who are being used to this or, going on these adventures with this cast or whatever. but him getting a look at his future and figuring, out a way or coming to terms, which, again, we knew this would be the end for him, in the sense of him finally making peace with being both Victor Stone and being cyborg. And these two identities can coexist. It doesn't have to be one or the other, which for pretty much the entire series, that's what he was battling and figuring out a way to still make a difference as just being Victor. with teaching and everything. I like it. And I could probably say that about all of the character endings where it's just like, yeah, we have spent the last few weeks complaining about how tiresome a lot of these storylines are, but they're tiresome because we know where it's headed. It's clear as day where it's headed. so I wasn't thrown, that being said, I'm glad I wasn't thrown off completely being like, why the hell did they do, they didn't do any character wrong. I would say they really didn't do any injustice to any of the characters.

>> Will: Agreed. Yeah, I think that's a good point. Like you said with know, I did like that they brought Silas back for one last episode, for them together to talk, to know, have that closure, with their relationship, because that was such an integral part of those early. Yeah. Yeah. So it was nice that they made amends. And silos is like, no, if you do this, if you go back to being cyborg, this is on you. You're a grown man now. so I really like that. But you're right, they did do right by all the characters and they kept each character true to themselves. even though sometimes it would get frustrating and sometimes it felt like with Larry in particular, a lot of times things weren't moving forward, but we did. But with the episode, I think it was eleven where the penultimate where Larry meets the alternate Larry in 1996, I think is when they were, and meets a version of a negative man, the negative spirit, who can talk to him, actually talk to him and stuff and help him know. Here's what it means to be a father. And really bookended a lot of things that Rita was trying to tell him about love and relationships and stuff and make something of was. I really liked the fact that they did that. so that whenever he and Rama did end up leaving, he diving into the ocean and finding a block of lead, and they go up into the heavens to make a star or whatever. like you said, it was an appropriate finish for that character story.

Dorothy was surprisingly absent for a lot of the finale

one person that did seem to be a glaring admission for me was Dorothy.

>> Sarah : Yeah. While I was saying, that of no character injustice, dorothy's face flashed in my mind where it's like she was surprisingly absent for a lot of the finale. Now that, I feel like Dorothy had her season and where it went wrong is when they brought her back for the third. Really? They introduced Dorothy in the second season. It was clear, like, she has her story. Once the story finished, they should have been done with Dorothy, but for whatever reason, they kept bringing her back and then it would change and it's like, whoa, whoa. I thought we were done with, like, she's not technically part of the Doom patrol. yeah. I think the writers had a hard time letting characters go and really realizing that you have a core group of m characters with plenty of storylines to do them for every season you can introduce a new character, but once that story concludes, you got to let that character go because the roster is full.

>> Will: for sure. I guess they used her to basically bring Casey, which in the comic books, Casey is a part of the Doom Patrol and stuff, and they use Danny the street, to make that happen. and I know we got the nice goodbye earlier in the season for Danny the street. So I don't think there was really a good way to integrate Danny back into this back half because it was already pretty full to begin with. Yeah. But, a character I was happy to see back and I was really surprised when he showed up was the chief, because when last saw him, he was going to hang out with the sex ghost and do manor. but I like the way that they used a chief, in the penultimate episode, as far as just, sort of really, closing out these folks journeys because he was the one who had the longevity skin tag to begin with and gave it to them for his experiment and his interactions with Cliff and the whole predestination situation there where it was like Cliff was the one to put him in the wheelchair. I was, ah, so maybe that's why their relationship, one of the reasons why their relationship is as tortured as it was because Miles had some sadistic, like, assuming that, he drank the forgetting potion, that, I'm blanking on his name right now. Mark Shepard's the actor, but I can't remember the character's name.

>> Sarah : I know who you're talking about. I.

>> Will: What?

>> Sarah : Ah.

>> Will: those. Those kind of things. And also thinking back the first season with the Nazis and going to South America and all that kind of stuff, it was again, like a lot of the bookends of the.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I think everything that they did with dials was, good. Served the story and it made a lot of sense in terms of these characters concluding their own stories.

>> Will: Yeah.

Will: Rouge finally warmed up to rouge in the last few episodes

>> Sarah : is there anything else?

>> Will: Rouge?

>> Sarah : I could totally end this podcast without talking about Rouge. I have no problem doing. But. But if you want to say something.

>> Will: About, ah, I mean, it was no secret I was not a big fan of, we, especially the third and fourth seasons that we talked about this show. But I will say that these last three episodes in particular really is where like, finally warmed up to rouge and made, it very cool. I was like, oh, I see the purpose of why she was part of this, know her goodbye with Vic there. And Vic's just like, look, if you cross that line, I'll be there to pull you back. So the whole literally burning down the ant farm, and, I guess create something new, or all. But I just thought that I really just really like, that sequence, because she's had the theme song of the series, like, playing while she burns down the ant farm. Because it was basically the place where all these misfits were birthed from, with these crazy experiments on people, making people metahumans and whatnot. for her to burn it all down, it was a nice bit of a little closure as well, to go along with, Rita's closure. Ah, getting to be with Malcolm at the end, too. That was a nice little touch. and then, of course, Cliff's ending. as we started out at the beginning, we, could close it out at the, Yeah, how fitting it was for him to get the last word.

>> Sarah : Yeah, definitely. And, on that note, will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

>> Will: Yes, you can find me on x, formerly m, known as Twitter, at, willmpolk. Willmpolk.

>> Sarah : You can find me there, too, at SJ Belmont. S-J-B-E-L-M-M-O-N-T. Please follow our crew on Twitter at scene, and nerdfront us on Facebook. Follow us on Instagram and threads at scene, underscore n, underscore nerd, and visit our website, ww dot scenanderdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.