Shocking Revelations: Agatha Unveils Wanda's Son & Penguin's True Hangman Exposed!

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>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with

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me, as always, is our mister producer, Will Will Polk. How are you doing tonight,

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Will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?

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>> Sarah : I'm doing good.

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>> Will: That's good. That's good. Happy Tuesday.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, happy Tuesday.

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we only have one bit of news because

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Will is still in hurricane

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mode. Yes.

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>> Will: I mean, well, I guess there was a crypto news today. I guess

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James Gunn confirmed the crypto is going to be in Superman. But

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I guess that's the hottest news item. But we do have

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one other news item, too.

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>> Sarah : So when you said crypto, I immediately was

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like, oh, the currency. And then

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I.

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>> Will: No, the OG crypto, the dog.

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>> Sarah : Got it. Got it.

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Yeah. And, and then there's,

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I mean, we all know the joker is just

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bombing at their, at the box office, so

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that's been talked to death.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And, the other thing that keeps

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going on is the lanterns, project where

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it seems like every other week somebody else gets

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cast. And this week it was

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Aaron Pierre, who has been cast as Jon

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Stewart.

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>> Will: Yep. He was cast as Jon Stewart, confirmed

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last week. And I guess they did the official

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announcement of Kyle Chandler. I know it was like, I guess, some soft

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announcements that he was cast as Hal Jordan, but,

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Aaron Pierre has been cast as Jon Stewart. And

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I know we, we really enjoyed him.

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And, kryptonite, speaking of crypto and

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Superman, but yeah, he was in that prequel

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series, as part of the, I guess,

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Chitauri, I think, the, I guess, part of General Zod's

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crew in that, in that show.

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And really, really was one of the

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standouts from, from that series and has gone on to do a lot of

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things. I know he's in that big, that net Netflix movie is

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at, Red Ridge. I can't remember the name of us. I mean, I

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saw my, it's on my list of things to watch.

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But, I know he was big breakout, think I was

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his big breakout role where a lot of people.

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Rebel rich. Yeah, rebel rich. Yeah.

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yeah, that was his big breakout role, I think, you know, definitely got

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him on a lot of people, more people's profiles.

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And, he's also been casting something else recently.

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but I'm blanking on it. Blanking on it right now. I have to look at

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IMDb, but he's, got another big project coming, coming down the

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pipeline as well.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I'm on his IMDb right now.

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>> Will: Hold on.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, he has a big project

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he's going to be. Are you thinking about the Lion King?

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Mufasa?

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>> Will: That's it.

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>> Sarah : On an episode of the morning show next year.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. Yeah, I was thinking Mufasa. Yeah, I

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knew it was a big ip. I just can't remember which one.

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That's coming out in December, right?

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>> Sarah : What?

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>> Will: mufasa.

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>> Sarah : it says 2024, so I imagine.

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>> Will: So, yeah, I think so. Yeah. I want to say it's coming out in December.

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As far as the big holiday. Holiday films.

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Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Now I'm just like spiraling down. The

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mufasa

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gonna be directed by Barry Jenkins. That's

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cool.

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>> Will: That's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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>> Sarah : Man, what was that? They did

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the quote unquote live action

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remake of the Lion King.

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Jon Favreau, who did it?

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>> Will: I believe so, yeah. Jon Favreau. Yeah. Jon

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Favreau did it. Yeah.

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>> Will: Donald Glover was one of the voices

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and, interviewed the voice of.

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>> Sarah : Simba in this one too.

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>> Will: Okay. Okay. Is Beyonce also in this one too?

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>> Sarah : Beyonce? No, I don't. I don't see. I don't see

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her.

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>> Will: Okay.

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>> Sarah : But I don't remember that doing that well,

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as good as they thought it was going to do.

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>> Will: No, no. I mean, you know, lion King's one of those things. I

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saw. I saw the stage production of it

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recently. and it's just amazing if

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you, If you haven't seen it on either Broadway

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or off Broadway, check it out. I mean, it's just. This

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is amazing to see it.

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so I've Scene that iteration, of course, the

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live action and of course the original animated. So I guess

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I've Scene. I've hit all hit. I've hit all the hit, all the

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mediums that it's been presented in.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

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It's amazing. And yet you haven't watched the joke or

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two.

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>> Will: Nope, not

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yet. I'm getting around. I'm gonna get around to it. I

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will. I will. To give you my. Give everyone my

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thoughts. I know you shared yours last week, but, I'll get around to

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it. Maybe. It might be.

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It might already be on a HBO, Max,

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but the read is going.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, probably, probably.

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Oh, Man. All right, well, that leads

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us to the road. With

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Agatha along, we're still on that road.

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Episode five, darkest hour. Wake thy power.

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Will, what are some of your thoughts about this

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episode?

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>> Will: So this episode, you know,

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Agatha, I will say I liked it better

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than episode four.

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>> Will: and it's. You know, the series, it's definitely,

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you know, it has this pattern. It knows what it wants to

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do. you know, this week we had the, eighties

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sleepover, horror. Horror motif.

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so, you know, so, of course, you know, a lot of people immediately

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jump to stranger things because that's the, easy

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eighties thing to jump to now. But,

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But I mean. But as far as the structure of the show, I

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mean, yeah, I mean, they have the trials. And, you

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know, this week we meet Agatha's mother. We do get a

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little flashback to, I guess, the, coven, the original. The

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coven that she had that we saw in

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WandaVision. And, And, Yeah, I mean, I

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thought it was a. I thought it was a

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good episode. and it did. And it did confirm what

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we talked about way back at the beginning as far as,

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Who, who the teen was so

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wicked. Yeah. Yeah.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Why do you like I.

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This episode? it brought up

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memories of the. What

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we knew about Agatha

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from. From Wandavision. I had

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forgotten, though, about her mother of it

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all.

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>> Will: Yeah, I did, too.

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>> Sarah : and. And once it was brought up, I was

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like, oh, yeah, I remember there being a bit

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of discourse and. And her mother

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basically trying to kill her. And

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so I guess, here's my

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question. why do you think Rio,

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who has had so many. Such

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a weird. In

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my opinion, a weird character

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structure, or some,

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I don't know, inconsistencies,

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especially with her and Agatha. Like,

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she was very adamant, that

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they were not to leave Agatha, with her mom.

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>> Will: Right.

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>> Sarah : Why do you think that is?

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>> Will: you know, I don't know.

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I mean, I. I really hadn't really thought that much

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about the show since we've watched it. That sounds like

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you this week with some

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things, but, I. You know,

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I, Do. You're right about the inconsistency with the. With

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their characterization. You know, some. And

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I don't know if it's very critical

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for Darkhold. Maybe it's tied to

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the Darkhold or something. I don't. I really don't know. I don't know. I would

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love to hear our listeners to, like, give their. Their

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thoughts on why it's so critical for

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Agatha to complete the trials in this show.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. And it's also, like with

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Rio, like, moving Agatha

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aside. So we first get introduced

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to Rio as someone who's trying to kill

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Agatha, and we don't really get an understanding

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of why. At first, I

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honestly thought she was somewhat a part of the

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Salem seven yep, same here. I

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don't think she is.

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>> Will: Nope.

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>> Sarah : No. Then we find out that they were

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pretty much in a relationship, and then there was a

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betrayal. And she works for

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Mecisto who. And

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had her take Agatha's son,

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so. But. But we still

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don't know why she's mad

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at Agatha. Like, you see where I'm going with

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this.

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>> Will: I do.

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>> Sarah : the other coven members have also picked up on

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this where, in that moment where,

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where I think it was Jennifer who's like, wait,

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wait, wait a second. We can't abandon

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her. You said you were okay with killing

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her, but we can't leave her with the mom.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : One plus one is not making two right now.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : So I. Now

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that the wiccan of it all is kind of

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in a way, that mystery is

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resolved, I hope the writers flesh

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out more about a. The history

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and just also the motivations of

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Rio, because she's a very confusing

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character.

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>> Will: She is. I mean, yeah, I mean, unless she, you know, like you said,

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she. She did work with Mephisto and

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did have a role and I guess Nicholas scratch, Agatha's

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son. you take it

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away. And we do see, we do get

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at least a spirit of Nicholas, you

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know, in. Through the Ouija board and this episode.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I forgot about that.

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>> Will: Yeah. So, you know, so, I mean,

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they're, they're all interconnected, you know. For

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what purpose,

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you know, I guess it remains to be Scene.

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>> Sarah : Like, you bring up. You bring up a very important

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scene where

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essentially the whole trial is to

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punish Agatha in this

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episode. And then that

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leads to, in a way, her

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mother taking over her to

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some extent, and

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in a way revealing the true nature. or

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the DV. The. The

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agatha who we've met before, the version

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who's just very power hungry.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : and it's interesting to see how she.

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How, Agatha goes in and out of that mode

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because I do think a part of her,

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it's, it's, it's hard because

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I, I think

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especially because early on, she hears

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what we believe to be her son

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crying, saying, mom. And

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so all along, especially with the presence of

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the teenage, she's reminded

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about this. This kid who

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she gave up.

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And so I think that that

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potentially could spark some change in her,

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which we see glimpse of after the fact,

255
00:11:42,872 --> 00:11:45,796
where she's trying to plead with the teen and saying, that wasn't

256
00:11:45,844 --> 00:11:48,820
me. I didn't mean to. It was out

257
00:11:48,836 --> 00:11:51,646
of my control. and so they did a

258
00:11:51,654 --> 00:11:54,502
very good job. And then, but then

259
00:11:54,542 --> 00:11:57,406
there's even the moment when

260
00:11:57,454 --> 00:11:59,442
she starts to taunt him.

261
00:12:00,222 --> 00:12:02,798
And so I guess this is my next

262
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:05,094
question. We know from a previous

263
00:12:05,198 --> 00:12:07,962
episode, the Siege, or.

264
00:12:09,182 --> 00:12:10,642
It's not the siege.

265
00:12:11,182 --> 00:12:12,230
>> Will: The sigil.

266
00:12:12,406 --> 00:12:15,358
>> Sarah : The sigil can only be removed by

267
00:12:15,510 --> 00:12:17,442
the witch who put it on. Mm.

268
00:12:17,442 --> 00:12:17,572
>> Will: M

269
00:12:18,102 --> 00:12:20,988
>> Sarah : So. So, Scarlet's not

270
00:12:21,020 --> 00:12:22,236
in this episode.

271
00:12:22,404 --> 00:12:23,112
>> Will: No.

272
00:12:24,572 --> 00:12:27,220
>> Sarah : So who put the sigil on? Was it

273
00:12:27,236 --> 00:12:29,392
Agatha, or was it the teen himself?

274
00:12:30,852 --> 00:12:33,708
>> Will: It may have been the teen himself if he knows

275
00:12:33,740 --> 00:12:35,752
that his mom was Wanda.

276
00:12:37,132 --> 00:12:37,588
>> Sarah : Or.

277
00:12:37,660 --> 00:12:39,312
>> Will: Or maybe Rio did it.

278
00:12:41,412 --> 00:12:44,274
>> Sarah : Ooh. Was there. Was there

279
00:12:44,298 --> 00:12:47,002
an interaction between him and Rio before

280
00:12:47,122 --> 00:12:49,822
he really started to.

281
00:12:51,442 --> 00:12:54,314
Or maybe that's just something we're not shown because that's

282
00:12:54,338 --> 00:12:57,288
not shown. Yeah. yeah, because I'm not. I'm

283
00:12:57,336 --> 00:12:59,564
still not sure exactly

284
00:13:00,624 --> 00:13:03,616
how the sigil got removed in that

285
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,346
moment. which shout out to the

286
00:13:06,370 --> 00:13:08,854
musical crew, like, yeah,

287
00:13:09,834 --> 00:13:12,826
I. The. I will be honest,

288
00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:15,686
the moment was all over TikTok, like, days

289
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:18,574
before I watched the actual episode, so I knew that was

290
00:13:18,614 --> 00:13:19,102
coming.

291
00:13:19,238 --> 00:13:19,670
>> Will: Yeah.

292
00:13:19,742 --> 00:13:22,598
>> Sarah : And we've already speculated as much, but it still

293
00:13:22,646 --> 00:13:24,230
was pretty. Pretty good.

294
00:13:24,342 --> 00:13:27,278
>> Will: It was a good reveal. It was a good reveal. Yeah, it worked.

295
00:13:27,326 --> 00:13:28,514
It really did work.

296
00:13:28,854 --> 00:13:31,206
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, it did. Especially

297
00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:33,942
because he. He also

298
00:13:34,078 --> 00:13:36,834
very similar to Agatha in this episode,

299
00:13:37,454 --> 00:13:39,998
goes from the teen we

300
00:13:40,046 --> 00:13:42,668
know, who, cares for the other

301
00:13:42,716 --> 00:13:45,156
witches in this coven who believes in

302
00:13:45,180 --> 00:13:47,700
Agatha, gets, disappointed by

303
00:13:47,748 --> 00:13:50,508
her, and it's almost pleading,

304
00:13:50,572 --> 00:13:53,500
like, tell me that, like, this isn't

305
00:13:53,548 --> 00:13:56,452
who you really are to his

306
00:13:56,484 --> 00:13:59,156
mom. His

307
00:13:59,196 --> 00:14:01,736
mom, in which form, yeah.

308
00:14:02,756 --> 00:14:05,692
So, like, that flip

309
00:14:05,804 --> 00:14:06,966
that occurs to,

310
00:14:08,546 --> 00:14:11,408
Yeah, yeah. Both of them have, show. Show

311
00:14:11,472 --> 00:14:12,792
that in this episode.

312
00:14:12,904 --> 00:14:15,480
>> Will: They do. They do. And, yeah, I do like

313
00:14:15,528 --> 00:14:18,528
that. I think that's one of the things that just.

314
00:14:18,632 --> 00:14:21,608
Why I said at the Al said this is. The

315
00:14:21,632 --> 00:14:24,304
show's been good in the sense that they are

316
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,968
laying. They have fallen up on

317
00:14:26,992 --> 00:14:29,856
breadcrumbs that they established in earlier

318
00:14:29,936 --> 00:14:32,912
episodes, and then they weaving it through

319
00:14:32,944 --> 00:14:35,300
the thread of, you know, with each

320
00:14:35,348 --> 00:14:37,926
trial, the

321
00:14:38,986 --> 00:14:41,906
resolving certain things, but then opening the door to

322
00:14:42,066 --> 00:14:44,802
deeper mysteries that we discussed this

323
00:14:44,834 --> 00:14:47,486
evening and also just

324
00:14:48,106 --> 00:14:50,446
showing the flip flop and characterizations

325
00:14:51,106 --> 00:14:53,686
with these folks because,

326
00:14:54,066 --> 00:14:57,024
as we talked about before, agatha, had, I guess,

327
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,768
an affection for the teen because it

328
00:14:59,792 --> 00:15:02,586
reminded her of her son. but at the same

329
00:15:02,626 --> 00:15:03,802
time, she.

330
00:15:03,834 --> 00:15:05,886
>> Sarah : Had a hope for a moment. M

331
00:15:06,722 --> 00:15:09,646
that was her son, correct, correct.

332
00:15:10,036 --> 00:15:12,916
>> Will: but also, I think she also had some leery,

333
00:15:13,036 --> 00:15:15,656
you know, she also had some weird

334
00:15:16,036 --> 00:15:18,780
feeling, too, that this teen could be tied

335
00:15:18,828 --> 00:15:21,780
to, possibly tied to Wanda or something like that, you

336
00:15:21,788 --> 00:15:22,196
know?

337
00:15:22,316 --> 00:15:25,216
>> Sarah : Yeah, definitely. Which

338
00:15:26,876 --> 00:15:29,420
something else we can't not talk

339
00:15:29,468 --> 00:15:31,766
about is, Katherine

340
00:15:31,846 --> 00:15:34,678
Hahn's impression of misses Hart. Yeah,

341
00:15:34,782 --> 00:15:37,306
it had me going. Yeah,

342
00:15:38,966 --> 00:15:41,798
that was happening. And I'm like, yes, for the

343
00:15:41,822 --> 00:15:43,870
rest of the episode, please,

344
00:15:43,998 --> 00:15:46,886
harpy. That

345
00:15:46,926 --> 00:15:49,626
would be punishment for agatha, for sure.

346
00:15:49,926 --> 00:15:52,182
>> Will: Yep. That did work.

347
00:15:52,254 --> 00:15:55,198
Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was only. I guess

348
00:15:55,222 --> 00:15:58,194
it was only the mid part of the episode when the mom showed up where I kind

349
00:15:58,210 --> 00:16:01,110
of checked out. But, Yeah, but, But, yeah, when she.

350
00:16:01,158 --> 00:16:04,100
When she was Miss Hart, I. Yeah, that was like, hey,

351
00:16:04,148 --> 00:16:06,856
she nailed Deborah Joe Rope's

352
00:16:07,596 --> 00:16:08,616
characterization.

353
00:16:11,996 --> 00:16:13,292
>> Sarah : She was really good.

354
00:16:13,404 --> 00:16:16,276
>> Will: She was really good. Yeah. Another thing too, that

355
00:16:16,436 --> 00:16:19,328
with the beginning of the episode I liked too was the, How they had

356
00:16:19,352 --> 00:16:21,934
to. Had to, the

357
00:16:21,950 --> 00:16:24,926
whole back and forth about the. About brooms

358
00:16:24,966 --> 00:16:27,382
and how. How basic it is and the

359
00:16:27,494 --> 00:16:30,334
sexism and, you know, just those just like

360
00:16:30,510 --> 00:16:33,438
all. You know, that whole discussion

361
00:16:33,502 --> 00:16:36,398
about that, I was just crack. I was laughing out

362
00:16:36,422 --> 00:16:39,366
loud because I thought that was just like, oh,

363
00:16:39,446 --> 00:16:42,350
you know, we got to basically, we got to do this

364
00:16:42,398 --> 00:16:45,212
to, you know, get away from the seven sisters. and also we got

365
00:16:45,244 --> 00:16:48,022
more, you know, details about the seven sisters in that, That

366
00:16:48,054 --> 00:16:51,054
they're the descendants of the original covenant. They're the daughters

367
00:16:51,070 --> 00:16:53,920
of the original covenant, that Agatha killed. So,

368
00:16:53,968 --> 00:16:56,944
you know, so again, it brought the right amount of stakes

369
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,516
for why they're so dangerous.

370
00:16:59,816 --> 00:17:02,784
>> Sarah : Yeah. A very maternal show we're

371
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,080
watching right now.

372
00:17:04,208 --> 00:17:04,960
>> Will: Yeah.

373
00:17:05,128 --> 00:17:07,396
>> Sarah : With Agatha along, for sure.

374
00:17:07,896 --> 00:17:10,856
so. And the closer we get to Halloween, the

375
00:17:10,896 --> 00:17:13,882
closer the road will end.

376
00:17:14,074 --> 00:17:16,834
>> Will: Yeah. And there were. And I will say, though, that

377
00:17:16,890 --> 00:17:19,634
I dig a cat. There were. It had the right. Speaking of

378
00:17:19,650 --> 00:17:22,514
Halloween, it did have the right creepy moments this week, I felt this was the

379
00:17:22,530 --> 00:17:24,806
first episode where. Where. When the,

380
00:17:25,626 --> 00:17:28,368
animals were like, in the woods and they were

381
00:17:28,392 --> 00:17:30,872
transforming into the seven sisters. They had the right

382
00:17:30,904 --> 00:17:33,776
creep, the right spooky element. This week. It definitely

383
00:17:33,816 --> 00:17:34,436
worked.

384
00:17:34,976 --> 00:17:35,386
>> Sarah : Yeah.

385
00:17:35,386 --> 00:17:38,384
>> Will: M for me, it did. Yeah. You know, as much as

386
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,258
a Disneyland plus show can. Can get kind of

387
00:17:41,282 --> 00:17:41,966
creepy.

388
00:17:42,746 --> 00:17:43,526
>> Sarah : Yeah.

389
00:17:46,716 --> 00:17:49,156
All right, well, that brings us to the

390
00:17:49,196 --> 00:17:51,456
Penguin episode for

391
00:17:52,116 --> 00:17:53,376
Santani.

392
00:17:54,236 --> 00:17:56,256
>> Will: I know they say it in the,

393
00:17:57,476 --> 00:17:59,046
like, the joy.

394
00:17:59,046 --> 00:18:01,290
>> Sarah : Santani, Santani,

395
00:18:01,378 --> 00:18:02,526
Santani.

396
00:18:04,206 --> 00:18:04,946
Me.

397
00:18:07,046 --> 00:18:09,874
Oh, man. yeah.

398
00:18:09,970 --> 00:18:12,626
Well, why don't you share your thoughts about this

399
00:18:12,666 --> 00:18:13,486
episode?

400
00:18:13,876 --> 00:18:16,868
>> Will: riveting. I was glocked in start to

401
00:18:16,892 --> 00:18:19,858
finish. we really get. This was, as

402
00:18:19,882 --> 00:18:22,354
we've talked about before, each,

403
00:18:22,530 --> 00:18:25,482
our three leads get their episodes.

404
00:18:25,634 --> 00:18:28,450
We had the penguin reestablish himself with the first

405
00:18:28,498 --> 00:18:31,362
couple. We get Vic last week, and this

406
00:18:31,394 --> 00:18:34,330
week is Sophia's backstory and I just

407
00:18:34,418 --> 00:18:36,446
literally from start to finish,

408
00:18:37,896 --> 00:18:40,656
I was locked in with this. With this episode.

409
00:18:40,736 --> 00:18:42,126
It definitely

410
00:18:44,356 --> 00:18:47,268
shades our perspective

411
00:18:47,332 --> 00:18:49,776
on things. Just even from the get.

412
00:18:50,476 --> 00:18:53,392
When the episode starts out. You know, last week we.

413
00:18:53,424 --> 00:18:56,168
We get the. When Vic rescued Oz

414
00:18:56,312 --> 00:18:58,526
from The Maronis,

415
00:18:59,186 --> 00:19:02,138
we got things from his perspective. But this episode kicks off

416
00:19:02,202 --> 00:19:04,722
with. With Sophia's

417
00:19:04,754 --> 00:19:07,618
perspective as far as what was going down in

418
00:19:07,642 --> 00:19:10,232
that. In that That moment. And.

419
00:19:10,384 --> 00:19:13,156
And of course, again, her learning

420
00:19:14,136 --> 00:19:17,024
why she cannot trust Oz. And we. And we. And we

421
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,316
see the first portrayal in this episode for.

422
00:19:20,466 --> 00:19:23,418
For about that. And so I just.

423
00:19:23,482 --> 00:19:26,138
This was a. Again, just a solid,

424
00:19:26,242 --> 00:19:28,994
solid outing by the show. It gets better each

425
00:19:29,050 --> 00:19:31,526
week and Love to hear your thoughts on it.

426
00:19:32,266 --> 00:19:33,926
>> Sarah : Yeah. So

427
00:19:36,946 --> 00:19:39,754
I agree with you. It's funny because within

428
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:42,846
the first three, four minutes,

429
00:19:43,186 --> 00:19:45,898
we get An. An explanation for

430
00:19:45,962 --> 00:19:48,906
why. Why Oz was okay

431
00:19:48,946 --> 00:19:51,690
with leaving Sophia behind. And it's very

432
00:19:51,738 --> 00:19:54,322
simple. Nadia had already let it out of the bag.

433
00:19:54,434 --> 00:19:55,166
>> Will: Yep.

434
00:19:55,546 --> 00:19:58,298
>> Sarah : Nadia, like shout out to

435
00:19:58,322 --> 00:20:00,882
Nadia because no, no,

436
00:20:00,994 --> 00:20:03,898
I'm not a man in this situation. I'm not going to let

437
00:20:03,922 --> 00:20:06,834
you spin your lies and play dumb here.

438
00:20:06,890 --> 00:20:09,354
I'm going to call you out in front of a co

439
00:20:09,410 --> 00:20:12,240
conspirator and make sure she knows

440
00:20:12,368 --> 00:20:14,636
exactly who she's dealing with.

441
00:20:16,536 --> 00:20:19,448
And they did it so well. And also

442
00:20:19,632 --> 00:20:20,356
just

443
00:20:22,806 --> 00:20:25,718
There's a line that we hear in

444
00:20:25,742 --> 00:20:28,310
the first and last week's episode that's

445
00:20:28,358 --> 00:20:31,086
carried over into this episode.

446
00:20:31,746 --> 00:20:34,706
And I think it has something to do with like you can

447
00:20:34,746 --> 00:20:37,266
trust me and whatnot.

448
00:20:37,766 --> 00:20:40,310
And beyond Nadia spilling

449
00:20:40,438 --> 00:20:43,416
the letting the cat out of the bag, I think what

450
00:20:43,456 --> 00:20:45,744
was also really interesting

451
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,806
was to see

452
00:20:48,896 --> 00:20:51,672
Sophia not only

453
00:20:51,784 --> 00:20:54,720
digest that fact which she kind of

454
00:20:54,768 --> 00:20:57,664
already had suspicions of, but

455
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,556
also the. Then

456
00:21:00,136 --> 00:21:01,716
witnessing him

457
00:21:03,066 --> 00:21:04,846
try to use

458
00:21:06,576 --> 00:21:08,156
similar language

459
00:21:08,856 --> 00:21:10,136
and similar

460
00:21:11,036 --> 00:21:13,956
placate to the

461
00:21:13,996 --> 00:21:16,892
promises and the friendship and the

462
00:21:16,924 --> 00:21:19,740
loyalty that not

463
00:21:19,788 --> 00:21:22,456
five minutes ago he was just telling her.

464
00:21:22,796 --> 00:21:25,748
He's now saying that to Nadia because Nadia has the

465
00:21:25,772 --> 00:21:28,290
gun in her hand and it's directed at him.

466
00:21:28,428 --> 00:21:28,814
>> Will: Yep.

467
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:31,822
>> Sarah : So I mean. I mean, penguins a

468
00:21:31,854 --> 00:21:32,586
survival.

469
00:21:37,126 --> 00:21:39,598
He doesn't care at the end of the

470
00:21:39,622 --> 00:21:42,542
day. I mean he might care a little bit about Vic, but

471
00:21:42,574 --> 00:21:44,598
that's about it. I don't even know anymore.

472
00:21:44,742 --> 00:21:47,590
>> Will: Yeah. At this point, Vic.

473
00:21:47,638 --> 00:21:49,854
Yeah, Vic better watch his back.

474
00:21:50,030 --> 00:21:52,998
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And. And I still

475
00:21:53,062 --> 00:21:55,318
think the first, even the second episode

476
00:21:55,382 --> 00:21:57,654
established was. Was arguably

477
00:21:57,790 --> 00:21:59,826
Sophia's episode just because

478
00:22:00,206 --> 00:22:03,028
it. We had a lot more scenes with

479
00:22:03,052 --> 00:22:04,776
her. But this episode

480
00:22:06,716 --> 00:22:09,548
I had. I had. I think early on you

481
00:22:09,572 --> 00:22:11,980
told me? You're like, yeah, there's probably gonna be a flashback

482
00:22:12,028 --> 00:22:12,668
episode.

483
00:22:12,772 --> 00:22:13,572
>> Will: Yeah, I did. Yeah.

484
00:22:13,604 --> 00:22:16,588
>> Sarah : And I was like. I was like, I don't. I don't know if I

485
00:22:16,612 --> 00:22:19,212
want to see a flash. I like. I like living in the

486
00:22:19,244 --> 00:22:22,108
present. Well, if you're gonna do a flashback episode, this

487
00:22:22,132 --> 00:22:24,788
is an example of how to do it, because

488
00:22:24,932 --> 00:22:27,688
this is not a flat, this is nothing.

489
00:22:27,742 --> 00:22:30,096
Penguins flashback episode.

490
00:22:30,516 --> 00:22:32,116
This is Sophia's.

491
00:22:32,236 --> 00:22:32,964
>> Will: Yeah.

492
00:22:33,140 --> 00:22:35,896
>> Sarah : Which makes all the difference in the world

493
00:22:36,636 --> 00:22:39,540
because it's the first episode that

494
00:22:39,628 --> 00:22:42,492
solely the penguin was maybe

495
00:22:42,564 --> 00:22:45,156
in it for two, three, four

496
00:22:45,236 --> 00:22:47,820
scenes. Like a handful of scenes.

497
00:22:47,988 --> 00:22:50,668
Hardly at all. I think we might have even Scene

498
00:22:50,732 --> 00:22:52,804
Al more than we saw him.

499
00:22:52,860 --> 00:22:54,466
>> Will: Yeah, we did. We did.

500
00:22:54,636 --> 00:22:55,310
>> Sarah : Yeah.

501
00:22:55,438 --> 00:22:55,766
>> Will: Yeah.

502
00:22:55,806 --> 00:22:58,118
>> Sarah : And so. But it's

503
00:22:58,182 --> 00:23:00,894
fascinating because even

504
00:23:00,950 --> 00:23:03,900
though, like, this was Sophia's episode,

505
00:23:03,948 --> 00:23:06,828
it's still the Penguin show, and

506
00:23:06,852 --> 00:23:09,276
he's lurking in the background and it's

507
00:23:09,316 --> 00:23:11,764
still. What she goes

508
00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:14,540
through informs us

509
00:23:14,588 --> 00:23:17,468
so much about him as well,

510
00:23:17,652 --> 00:23:20,140
and also the power and the

511
00:23:20,188 --> 00:23:22,096
structure of this world.

512
00:23:22,586 --> 00:23:24,956
so, yeah.

513
00:23:26,016 --> 00:23:28,966
And also within the first five minutes, I did not

514
00:23:29,006 --> 00:23:31,902
forget when you brought up last week the line

515
00:23:31,974 --> 00:23:34,622
that she has in awe says to

516
00:23:34,654 --> 00:23:37,358
Oz, and I'm not the

517
00:23:37,382 --> 00:23:40,054
hangman. Yeah, yeah.

518
00:23:40,150 --> 00:23:42,984
Which, when, you brought it up, I knew. I'm

519
00:23:43,016 --> 00:23:45,840
like, yeah, it's probably going to mean something, but I didn't

520
00:23:45,904 --> 00:23:48,760
realize we were going to get this episode the

521
00:23:48,784 --> 00:23:51,688
way we did and that it would. I had no

522
00:23:51,728 --> 00:23:54,552
idea. I mean, I guess for you,

523
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,188
Will, because you picked up on that line.

524
00:23:57,528 --> 00:24:00,028
Did you at all think, like,

525
00:24:00,728 --> 00:24:03,672
oh, I wonder if it was a setup, or I wonder

526
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,664
if, like, did you think maybe penguin was

527
00:24:06,696 --> 00:24:07,508
the hangman?

528
00:24:08,088 --> 00:24:10,948
>> Will: No, no, I just. I, you know, I

529
00:24:11,768 --> 00:24:14,568
just. That's. You're completely right. I mean, the way

530
00:24:14,608 --> 00:24:17,390
that this is how to do a flashback.

531
00:24:17,494 --> 00:24:20,400
And I did not pick up, And I, you

532
00:24:20,424 --> 00:24:23,344
know, whenever she said, I'm not the hangman, I just thought it was like

533
00:24:23,376 --> 00:24:24,588
your traditional,

534
00:24:26,118 --> 00:24:28,974
denial. Exactly. Exactly.

535
00:24:29,166 --> 00:24:31,926
But whenever they really start to flesh

536
00:24:31,982 --> 00:24:34,630
out what was really going on

537
00:24:34,774 --> 00:24:37,538
and even, like, when the flashbacks with, you know, with it was, you know,

538
00:24:37,822 --> 00:24:40,398
the way they structured it was just so brilliant because

539
00:24:40,558 --> 00:24:43,294
they used the suicide foundation as far as

540
00:24:43,326 --> 00:24:46,206
Isabella Falcone and,

541
00:24:46,262 --> 00:24:48,790
you know, they frame it in the stance of mental illness

542
00:24:48,894 --> 00:24:51,302
and, you know, and we see

543
00:24:51,390 --> 00:24:54,092
Sophia, you know, even though she knows.

544
00:24:54,220 --> 00:24:56,964
Even though she knows the family, the true family

545
00:24:57,036 --> 00:24:59,528
business, you know, she is sort of the,

546
00:24:59,948 --> 00:25:02,260
you know, and also

547
00:25:02,404 --> 00:25:05,388
Carmine as well, you know, they put the nice public

548
00:25:05,468 --> 00:25:07,898
face out there as far as, like,

549
00:25:08,238 --> 00:25:09,150
you know, well, I.

550
00:25:09,174 --> 00:25:11,578
>> Sarah : Think what, what you're getting at is also

551
00:25:12,078 --> 00:25:14,870
like, they, they introduce it in a way

552
00:25:15,014 --> 00:25:17,902
where you, as a viewer, knowing what

553
00:25:17,950 --> 00:25:20,934
you know, automatically assume, oh, this is

554
00:25:20,966 --> 00:25:23,268
how. This is her hunting ground. Mm.

555
00:25:23,218 --> 00:25:25,422
>> Will: That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

556
00:25:25,882 --> 00:25:28,802
>> Sarah : She, that's how she identifies the girls. She's gonna

557
00:25:28,842 --> 00:25:31,802
kill everything. And it takes, it takes

558
00:25:31,842 --> 00:25:34,516
a while before you will

559
00:25:34,564 --> 00:25:37,516
also start to piece

560
00:25:37,564 --> 00:25:40,352
together and realize, oh,

561
00:25:40,692 --> 00:25:43,668
no, no, she's really not involved in

562
00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:45,912
this. And, ah, but

563
00:25:46,612 --> 00:25:47,952
she's also.

564
00:25:49,652 --> 00:25:52,072
Yeah, yeah. So, so I.

565
00:25:53,492 --> 00:25:55,382
They, they also,

566
00:25:57,922 --> 00:26:00,770
they. It's a hard thing to do and

567
00:26:00,786 --> 00:26:03,050
we've covered so many shows.

568
00:26:03,146 --> 00:26:03,826
>> Will: Yeah.

569
00:26:03,994 --> 00:26:05,862
>> Sarah : But it's very hard

570
00:26:06,362 --> 00:26:08,782
to kind of

571
00:26:09,082 --> 00:26:11,942
give information and context

572
00:26:12,842 --> 00:26:15,714
without the viewer being like, oh, we already

573
00:26:15,778 --> 00:26:17,142
knew that. Or

574
00:26:18,442 --> 00:26:21,322
like, like, we knew a version

575
00:26:21,362 --> 00:26:24,122
of events, but there were some gaps. We didn't

576
00:26:24,162 --> 00:26:26,386
know how big those gaps were.

577
00:26:26,514 --> 00:26:28,348
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I.

578
00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:30,572
>> Sarah : Or because

579
00:26:31,912 --> 00:26:34,552
a, we didn't. Or at least I don't

580
00:26:34,592 --> 00:26:37,584
remember there being any talk about how Sophia

581
00:26:37,688 --> 00:26:40,048
and Al's mom died.

582
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:40,822
>> Will: Nope.

583
00:26:41,432 --> 00:26:44,280
>> Sarah : and it was quote unquote told

584
00:26:44,376 --> 00:26:47,360
that it was suicide. And we see

585
00:26:47,416 --> 00:26:50,416
Sophia find her and instantly we're like,

586
00:26:50,464 --> 00:26:52,772
oh, this is where she gets the idea.

587
00:26:53,972 --> 00:26:56,124
We're basically carmine.

588
00:26:56,308 --> 00:26:57,072
>> Will: Yeah.

589
00:26:58,292 --> 00:27:01,044
>> Sarah : As the viewer, you spend probably

590
00:27:01,108 --> 00:27:03,396
the first 15 to 20 minutes of this

591
00:27:03,444 --> 00:27:06,312
episode in flashbacks

592
00:27:06,692 --> 00:27:09,380
from that lens of like, okay,

593
00:27:09,516 --> 00:27:12,368
we know where she ends up. and she

594
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,372
does end up in Arkham, but it's because

595
00:27:16,712 --> 00:27:18,932
she was trying to get down.

596
00:27:19,562 --> 00:27:22,354
She was, she was putting together

597
00:27:22,418 --> 00:27:25,282
the pieces that Carmine not only is killing these

598
00:27:25,362 --> 00:27:25,978
girls.

599
00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:26,858
>> Will: Yeah.

600
00:27:27,050 --> 00:27:29,410
>> Sarah : But he is also behind

601
00:27:29,586 --> 00:27:32,394
the murder of her

602
00:27:32,418 --> 00:27:33,194
own mom.

603
00:27:33,338 --> 00:27:33,802
>> Will: Yeah.

604
00:27:33,882 --> 00:27:36,362
>> Sarah : And she. And

605
00:27:36,442 --> 00:27:38,938
Penguin reports to

606
00:27:38,970 --> 00:27:41,954
Carmine that Sophia met with a

607
00:27:41,978 --> 00:27:43,762
reporter. So another thing.

608
00:27:43,882 --> 00:27:44,202
>> Will: Yep.

609
00:27:44,242 --> 00:27:46,700
>> Sarah : Like, that's a very different thing.

610
00:27:46,756 --> 00:27:49,548
Like, I guess my question to you,

611
00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:51,632
will, is, do you think

612
00:27:52,292 --> 00:27:55,112
that he, that

613
00:27:56,852 --> 00:27:59,404
he knew. I don't know,

614
00:27:59,508 --> 00:28:02,444
like, how innocent of

615
00:28:02,508 --> 00:28:05,444
that do you think the penguin is in the

616
00:28:05,468 --> 00:28:08,108
fact, like, well, I know she shouldn't be

617
00:28:08,140 --> 00:28:10,872
investigating that, but.

618
00:28:11,262 --> 00:28:13,966
And then to tell the dad and like, do

619
00:28:13,974 --> 00:28:16,510
you, how much do you think, like, he

620
00:28:16,566 --> 00:28:19,246
knew how far that would get her

621
00:28:19,334 --> 00:28:22,334
into ultimately ending up in Arkham

622
00:28:22,398 --> 00:28:23,482
because of that?

623
00:28:24,142 --> 00:28:27,038
>> Will: I don't think he did. Yeah, I

624
00:28:27,070 --> 00:28:29,598
think it. You know, and I was, as I was thinking

625
00:28:29,630 --> 00:28:32,482
about talking about this episode with you tonight,

626
00:28:33,542 --> 00:28:35,598
Oz has basically fucked

627
00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:38,452
overdem two for alcohol.

628
00:28:39,232 --> 00:28:40,692
Albert. Because

629
00:28:43,072 --> 00:28:45,784
in the catalyst for it was the

630
00:28:45,808 --> 00:28:48,568
same in both situations, they made him feel

631
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:49,172
small.

632
00:28:50,552 --> 00:28:51,384
>> Sarah : Yeah.

633
00:28:51,568 --> 00:28:54,264
>> Will: He killed Alberto because Alberto made him feel small.

634
00:28:54,328 --> 00:28:57,248
Whenever, you know, in the first episode, he was talking

635
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,864
about the story and. And then in this episode is

636
00:28:59,888 --> 00:29:02,816
because when, you know, he gave advice

637
00:29:02,864 --> 00:29:05,774
to Sofia, as far as talking to the reporter, know, she's

638
00:29:05,798 --> 00:29:07,442
like, know your place, driver.

639
00:29:08,542 --> 00:29:09,282
>> Sarah : Right.

640
00:29:09,982 --> 00:29:12,414
>> Will: So I don't think he had a grand plan to,

641
00:29:12,438 --> 00:29:15,334
like, you know, I don't think he knew

642
00:29:15,478 --> 00:29:18,350
the depths of what Carmine was doing. He might have,

643
00:29:18,406 --> 00:29:21,198
but I don't. I think it was,

644
00:29:21,230 --> 00:29:24,022
at his core was he just felt small and he just. In

645
00:29:24,102 --> 00:29:26,990
typical Oz way, he just reacted. And he saw her talking to

646
00:29:27,006 --> 00:29:29,602
a reporter and, you know,

647
00:29:30,182 --> 00:29:30,766
he was, you.

648
00:29:30,774 --> 00:29:33,550
>> Sarah : Know, and, yeah, when. When

649
00:29:33,606 --> 00:29:36,510
they pull him over and she.

650
00:29:36,566 --> 00:29:39,358
He's driving her home, he. He's

651
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:41,894
reacting in a way like, it's not as

652
00:29:41,918 --> 00:29:44,862
though he figured out

653
00:29:44,902 --> 00:29:47,614
the long plan of this. Like,

654
00:29:47,718 --> 00:29:50,262
like, I agree. He. He

655
00:29:50,422 --> 00:29:53,254
screwed over two falcons. But at the same

656
00:29:53,318 --> 00:29:56,016
time, it still

657
00:29:56,104 --> 00:29:58,632
feels different with Sophia because

658
00:29:58,792 --> 00:30:01,696
there was. There was a. There's such a.

659
00:30:01,864 --> 00:30:04,384
It's not a father like, care.

660
00:30:04,568 --> 00:30:07,440
It's not boyfriend like. It's just, like,

661
00:30:07,576 --> 00:30:09,572
companionship, almost

662
00:30:10,312 --> 00:30:12,772
partnership that.

663
00:30:13,512 --> 00:30:16,252
Because if I feel like, in a way,

664
00:30:17,432 --> 00:30:19,892
she gave him a shot and.

665
00:30:20,472 --> 00:30:22,772
And then he, unfortunately

666
00:30:23,762 --> 00:30:26,658
try. It almost could be viewed as a form

667
00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:29,522
of protection. Like, you need your daughter. She

668
00:30:29,562 --> 00:30:32,402
can't be talking to these because he might have

669
00:30:32,442 --> 00:30:35,022
already known that Carmine was behind

670
00:30:35,602 --> 00:30:38,034
the murders. Right, right.

671
00:30:38,138 --> 00:30:40,978
But I think what really did it for

672
00:30:41,010 --> 00:30:43,610
Carmine to ultimately, like,

673
00:30:43,746 --> 00:30:46,642
send his daughter away was

674
00:30:46,762 --> 00:30:49,628
the fact that, like, when

675
00:30:49,660 --> 00:30:52,572
she asked, like. Or when she says, there were bruises on your

676
00:30:52,612 --> 00:30:53,700
hands that day.

677
00:30:53,836 --> 00:30:54,252
>> Will: That day.

678
00:30:54,292 --> 00:30:54,912
>> Sarah : Yep.

679
00:30:55,932 --> 00:30:58,796
>> Will: She pieced it together. Yeah. When she saw those photos

680
00:30:58,844 --> 00:31:01,628
from the reporter and she pieced. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

681
00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:01,900
yeah.

682
00:31:01,956 --> 00:31:04,588
>> Sarah : Because. Because the other girls

683
00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:07,108
aside, she was

684
00:31:07,260 --> 00:31:10,148
the one who found her mom, and

685
00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:12,532
I think that was well known.

686
00:31:12,692 --> 00:31:13,076
>> Will: Yeah.

687
00:31:13,124 --> 00:31:15,492
>> Sarah : To the public. So she could have

688
00:31:15,572 --> 00:31:18,246
easily, like, in an order of being

689
00:31:18,294 --> 00:31:20,682
like, I'm gonna report this because

690
00:31:21,022 --> 00:31:23,846
I want justice for my mom, fuck my dad and

691
00:31:23,894 --> 00:31:26,438
all of that. So, yeah, it's

692
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:29,414
just they did it very well, and

693
00:31:29,438 --> 00:31:31,902
they, That story unfolded,

694
00:31:32,502 --> 00:31:35,032
in a very, very deep way,

695
00:31:35,302 --> 00:31:37,742
as we then

696
00:31:37,822 --> 00:31:38,442
watch,

697
00:31:40,202 --> 00:31:43,006
her go into

698
00:31:43,054 --> 00:31:45,894
Arkham, being told, you get. You

699
00:31:45,918 --> 00:31:48,790
gotta. Being told. And shout out to Al. I

700
00:31:48,806 --> 00:31:51,606
mean, we're introduced to him in one scene at the very

701
00:31:51,654 --> 00:31:54,590
beginning. Total douchebag. Bit of

702
00:31:54,606 --> 00:31:57,510
a douchebag in this episode. But also, you

703
00:31:57,566 --> 00:31:58,842
recognize and

704
00:32:00,542 --> 00:32:02,122
they show you

705
00:32:02,822 --> 00:32:05,686
why she was so dead

706
00:32:05,734 --> 00:32:08,278
set and is so dead set on vengeance for

707
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:10,746
him. Like, their connection and their.

708
00:32:10,834 --> 00:32:13,496
Their, sibling bond was so strong.

709
00:32:13,664 --> 00:32:14,080
>> Will: Yep.

710
00:32:14,136 --> 00:32:17,056
>> Sarah : So. So I think they did Al justice

711
00:32:17,104 --> 00:32:18,452
in this episode.

712
00:32:18,832 --> 00:32:21,584
>> Will: They did. They really did. And, you know, and

713
00:32:21,728 --> 00:32:24,688
the, you know, I think about as.

714
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,616
As the setup happened, and it was so,

715
00:32:27,704 --> 00:32:30,632
I mean, Carmine had everything orchestrated, even down

716
00:32:30,672 --> 00:32:33,480
to, like, setting up

717
00:32:33,496 --> 00:32:36,366
a bum lawyer who was just like, you know, you

718
00:32:36,374 --> 00:32:39,202
know, as I was sitting there watching that scene, I'm like,

719
00:32:39,902 --> 00:32:42,642
the lawyers fix. I mean, everything, you know, it really.

720
00:32:43,942 --> 00:32:46,382
All the. All the trust

721
00:32:46,502 --> 00:32:49,422
issues and all the betrayals, they,

722
00:32:49,462 --> 00:32:51,990
you know, they show, it just really, like, hammer

723
00:32:52,046 --> 00:32:55,022
home why Sophia is the way

724
00:32:55,062 --> 00:32:58,054
that she is in this episode. And. You

725
00:32:58,078 --> 00:33:01,046
mean. And you brought up a good point, too, with the milk. M. You know, with the fat. You

726
00:33:01,054 --> 00:33:03,736
know, they do. For example, everyone knows that she

727
00:33:03,784 --> 00:33:06,424
discovered her mom. And m so

728
00:33:06,568 --> 00:33:08,772
it gave, you know, so they

729
00:33:09,112 --> 00:33:11,504
gave further ammunition

730
00:33:11,648 --> 00:33:14,298
and, salience when they could be

731
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:17,074
like, she's mentally. You know, she's.

732
00:33:17,138 --> 00:33:20,106
She's unstable. She's, you know, she has a history.

733
00:33:20,274 --> 00:33:23,218
She's mentally ill because of, you know, traumatic. This traumatic event

734
00:33:23,250 --> 00:33:25,938
that happened to her. So, yeah, so whenever.

735
00:33:26,010 --> 00:33:28,428
So, you know, when they said they're going to do the six month

736
00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:31,076
evaluation, you know, it. It

737
00:33:31,204 --> 00:33:33,924
all, like, really, you know,

738
00:33:34,028 --> 00:33:36,820
it all fall. All the pieces fall into play, and it

739
00:33:36,836 --> 00:33:39,436
shows us just how. How dangerous Carmen,

740
00:33:39,484 --> 00:33:40,916
Carmine Falcone is.

741
00:33:41,084 --> 00:33:43,948
>> Sarah : Right, right. And just how. How

742
00:33:44,020 --> 00:33:46,992
messed up Arkham is as a whole, because

743
00:33:47,652 --> 00:33:50,452
it's. She goes in, having not killed

744
00:33:50,492 --> 00:33:53,402
anybody, she. She stays long

745
00:33:53,442 --> 00:33:55,842
enough to eventually kill someone.

746
00:33:56,002 --> 00:33:56,742
>> Will: Yeah.

747
00:33:59,522 --> 00:34:01,942
So now, that's the one thing I did see.

748
00:34:02,402 --> 00:34:05,062
I did see something happen to Magpie at some point.

749
00:34:05,522 --> 00:34:08,458
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. Which. Did we meet a version

750
00:34:08,490 --> 00:34:10,504
of Magpie in, Batwoman?

751
00:34:10,608 --> 00:34:11,504
>> Will: We did. We did.

752
00:34:11,568 --> 00:34:14,496
>> Sarah : You did. Yeah. I was like, you seem so

753
00:34:14,544 --> 00:34:17,356
familiar to me. which is

754
00:34:17,404 --> 00:34:19,942
good, because, I mean, we've had so many

755
00:34:19,982 --> 00:34:22,942
iterations of Gotham of

756
00:34:23,062 --> 00:34:25,470
Arkham and everything, that.

757
00:34:25,646 --> 00:34:26,406
>> Will: Yeah.

758
00:34:26,574 --> 00:34:29,086
>> Sarah : Yeah, it's. It's almost its own. Like,

759
00:34:29,174 --> 00:34:30,990
Batman is a genre.

760
00:34:31,166 --> 00:34:33,958
>> Will: Yeah, he is. But you're. But you're right about

761
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:36,662
Arkham, though. I mean, that this really got

762
00:34:36,702 --> 00:34:38,962
to why Arkham is.

763
00:34:39,462 --> 00:34:42,422
Has gotten the, you know, reputation that it has. Because, I

764
00:34:42,422 --> 00:34:45,354
mean, there's the campy Arkham, there's the, you know, I think.

765
00:34:45,378 --> 00:34:48,378
Cause we got. You know, we got a little bit of campy of Arkham,

766
00:34:48,450 --> 00:34:51,390
I think, with, With Batgirl, Batwoman, you

767
00:34:51,406 --> 00:34:54,230
know, and we've Scene, you know, we've heard it referenced in other

768
00:34:54,366 --> 00:34:57,310
versions of live action, but I think that, you know, whenever

769
00:34:57,366 --> 00:35:00,012
we see Sofia, being processed

770
00:35:00,052 --> 00:35:02,940
there, and, you know, she touched us on that, too,

771
00:35:02,996 --> 00:35:05,836
whenever, you know, she torches oz in the first

772
00:35:05,884 --> 00:35:08,786
episode. but, But we

773
00:35:08,818 --> 00:35:11,704
really, you know, but we see it and just. You

774
00:35:11,752 --> 00:35:14,260
feel it. I mean, it was a hard watch.

775
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,100
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I think.

776
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,872
I think what kind of took me out,

777
00:35:20,976 --> 00:35:23,822
though was, the choice of music was a bit

778
00:35:23,846 --> 00:35:26,188
campy, because it

779
00:35:26,244 --> 00:35:28,756
definitely lend it to that snap,

780
00:35:28,828 --> 00:35:31,318
those, those lyrical notes you're used to

781
00:35:31,374 --> 00:35:34,278
when like, we enter comic, whether it's a

782
00:35:34,294 --> 00:35:36,544
tv show or movie. And it's just.

783
00:35:36,662 --> 00:35:39,612
There is. I can't put my

784
00:35:39,676 --> 00:35:42,532
articulate when I'm trying to. How I'm trying to

785
00:35:42,556 --> 00:35:45,108
describe it, but. But yeah, there was some

786
00:35:45,204 --> 00:35:47,708
campy that kind of made it not

787
00:35:47,804 --> 00:35:50,460
as painful to

788
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:53,316
watch as if maybe it was set to something else,

789
00:35:53,388 --> 00:35:55,750
like. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

790
00:35:55,700 --> 00:35:56,314
>> Will: I can see that.

791
00:35:56,362 --> 00:35:59,330
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and the guy

792
00:35:59,370 --> 00:36:02,106
who plays julian, great actor, does a good

793
00:36:02,138 --> 00:36:02,594
job.

794
00:36:02,722 --> 00:36:03,338
>> Will: Yeah.

795
00:36:03,474 --> 00:36:06,186
>> Sarah : He's from Sons of Anarchy. And so

796
00:36:06,298 --> 00:36:08,590
I can't not see

797
00:36:09,090 --> 00:36:11,990
him. I'm sorry.

798
00:36:13,970 --> 00:36:16,306
It's so funny to me.

799
00:36:16,498 --> 00:36:19,338
And this just happens every so

800
00:36:19,394 --> 00:36:21,850
often where, I mean, not everyone can

801
00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:24,502
be, Colin Farrell and dressed in like

802
00:36:24,566 --> 00:36:26,450
five pounds of makeup

803
00:36:27,870 --> 00:36:30,830
where you just completely forget, but

804
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:33,886
almost to a point where you were constantly reminding

805
00:36:33,918 --> 00:36:36,166
yourself, that's Colin Farrell. That's Colin Farrell.

806
00:36:36,238 --> 00:36:37,410
>> Will: Just to make sure.

807
00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:42,050
>> Sarah : But. But yeah. So. And

808
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:45,318
his journey, it

809
00:36:45,374 --> 00:36:47,872
is. It's a bit. It's a bit weird. I

810
00:36:47,896 --> 00:36:50,696
think. Yeah, I think they.

811
00:36:50,768 --> 00:36:53,712
They could, in a

812
00:36:53,736 --> 00:36:56,346
way. And maybe they'll do

813
00:36:56,378 --> 00:36:58,910
this. I mean, we still got episodes to go.

814
00:37:00,590 --> 00:37:03,550
I almost want to say Sophia needs

815
00:37:03,590 --> 00:37:06,210
to be a lesbian for this to work because

816
00:37:06,670 --> 00:37:09,370
she, is basically had

817
00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:12,058
every single man in her life screw her over.

818
00:37:12,194 --> 00:37:14,778
So to have this weird dynamic with her and the

819
00:37:14,794 --> 00:37:17,746
therapist. I mean, since

820
00:37:17,778 --> 00:37:19,990
the first time we met Julianne,

821
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,220
present day, I was like, man,

822
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,608
he seems there's something off about him. Like, are we sure

823
00:37:26,664 --> 00:37:29,100
he never raped her? Like, are we sure?

824
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,152
Yeah. Which. It doesn't sound

825
00:37:32,216 --> 00:37:35,136
like that that's the case because

826
00:37:35,288 --> 00:37:38,272
he apparently resigned early on

827
00:37:38,336 --> 00:37:41,088
and then also helped Alberto

828
00:37:41,184 --> 00:37:44,140
get, Sofia out eventually. And it took

829
00:37:44,180 --> 00:37:47,044
them a decade plus, but they vent.

830
00:37:47,092 --> 00:37:49,996
She eventually got out. which maybe

831
00:37:50,028 --> 00:37:52,724
we'll get some future flashbacks about how

832
00:37:52,812 --> 00:37:55,604
exactly they end up getting out.

833
00:37:55,652 --> 00:37:56,240
And.

834
00:37:59,460 --> 00:38:00,640
>> Will: They touch on it.

835
00:38:01,180 --> 00:38:01,828
>> Sarah : What?

836
00:38:01,964 --> 00:38:04,924
>> Will: I said it did touch on it some, though. Cause I think part of it is,

837
00:38:05,012 --> 00:38:07,908
I think the guilt. Cause you

838
00:38:07,924 --> 00:38:09,920
see himself medicating from

839
00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:13,516
whenever she does wake up in his place and starts going through his

840
00:38:13,548 --> 00:38:16,426
desk and he sees the pills. Yeah.

841
00:38:16,618 --> 00:38:19,190
>> Sarah : Yeah. I mean. I mean, he's been guilty

842
00:38:20,050 --> 00:38:23,050
since day one. But I

843
00:38:23,090 --> 00:38:25,966
think, what I was going to

844
00:38:25,998 --> 00:38:28,742
say was I think probably the only

845
00:38:28,806 --> 00:38:31,790
reason why Al and julian could get her out,

846
00:38:31,830 --> 00:38:34,134
though, is the moment that Carmite

847
00:38:34,182 --> 00:38:34,862
dies.

848
00:38:35,046 --> 00:38:36,390
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

849
00:38:36,510 --> 00:38:39,342
>> Sarah : Like, if she was never going to get out anytime,

850
00:38:39,446 --> 00:38:41,156
like, with him still alive.

851
00:38:41,318 --> 00:38:44,008
>> Will: You're, you're right. That's 100%

852
00:38:44,064 --> 00:38:44,656
correct. Yeah.

853
00:38:44,728 --> 00:38:47,408
>> Sarah : Also. Okay, well, let's go back to the

854
00:38:47,424 --> 00:38:50,168
Batman for a moment, a movie I've only Scene

855
00:38:50,224 --> 00:38:52,962
one time to this day. but I do,

856
00:38:53,106 --> 00:38:56,002
I did remember throughout this episode. That's right.

857
00:38:56,066 --> 00:38:58,482
Celine Kyle, in this universe,

858
00:38:58,666 --> 00:39:01,390
is Sophia's half sister.

859
00:39:03,890 --> 00:39:06,778
Carmine is like, it was revealed in

860
00:39:06,794 --> 00:39:09,018
the Batman that Carmine is her

861
00:39:09,074 --> 00:39:09,804
daddy.

862
00:39:09,882 --> 00:39:11,192
>> Will: That's right, that's right. It was.

863
00:39:11,256 --> 00:39:13,968
>> Sarah : Her mom used to work at the 44

864
00:39:14,024 --> 00:39:16,440
below club, or whatever they call that club.

865
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:17,216
>> Will: Yep.

866
00:39:17,368 --> 00:39:20,296
>> Sarah : Now. And so this whole time watching

867
00:39:20,328 --> 00:39:23,220
this episode, as soon as I remembered that,

868
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,512
I was like, oh, my God.

869
00:39:26,616 --> 00:39:28,220
So, so did,

870
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:32,060
did she die by supposed suicide?

871
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,112
>> Will: Yeah. You know, like, like, it begs the

872
00:39:35,136 --> 00:39:35,734
question.

873
00:39:35,912 --> 00:39:38,714
>> Sarah : I'm trying to, like. And

874
00:39:38,762 --> 00:39:41,762
for people who are obsessed with that movie, because, you guys know, I

875
00:39:41,786 --> 00:39:44,698
won't go rewatch it, but somebody might need to

876
00:39:44,714 --> 00:39:47,650
do some rewatching and let me know if there's at all the

877
00:39:47,690 --> 00:39:50,098
circumstances, because I also feel as though

878
00:39:50,154 --> 00:39:53,010
Carmine is the reason why Celine's dad or

879
00:39:53,050 --> 00:39:55,978
mom is dead. Yeah. I just,

880
00:39:56,034 --> 00:39:58,874
I wonder if there was a seed planted all the way back

881
00:39:58,922 --> 00:39:59,510
there.

882
00:39:59,810 --> 00:40:02,762
>> Will: I'm, you know, there probably Washington. There probably was, because

883
00:40:02,786 --> 00:40:05,762
I know. Yeah, because I know, I know. Falcone. I mean,

884
00:40:05,826 --> 00:40:08,812
even the Ellis is looking at us. it

885
00:40:08,836 --> 00:40:11,836
is. I think they firm it up in the

886
00:40:11,868 --> 00:40:14,324
movie. I think in the comic book. I think it's just

887
00:40:14,372 --> 00:40:17,300
allude. It's a rumor.

888
00:40:17,420 --> 00:40:20,380
It's alleged, but, you know, they

889
00:40:20,420 --> 00:40:23,124
do flesh it out, like you said in the movie,

890
00:40:23,172 --> 00:40:23,572
so.

891
00:40:23,676 --> 00:40:26,396
>> Sarah : Yeah, because she wants to kill him.

892
00:40:26,508 --> 00:40:29,284
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

893
00:40:29,372 --> 00:40:32,032
Speaking of, speaking of, like, the Batman, too.

894
00:40:32,096 --> 00:40:34,946
And also, you know, John Turturro

895
00:40:35,018 --> 00:40:37,906
had a scheduling conflict, so he couldn't, he could not reprise

896
00:40:37,938 --> 00:40:40,874
the role in this, episode. But Mark,

897
00:40:40,922 --> 00:40:43,906
strong man, he was like,

898
00:40:43,938 --> 00:40:46,814
he brought the intensity, especially to, with the younger,

899
00:40:46,878 --> 00:40:49,812
younger Carmine, in those classes. And. But the

900
00:40:50,152 --> 00:40:52,882
red glasses and I. But the, the

901
00:40:53,662 --> 00:40:56,388
energy he was exuding there, it

902
00:40:56,460 --> 00:40:59,252
really, I think, also helped set the tone and also set

903
00:40:59,292 --> 00:40:59,872
the,

904
00:41:02,102 --> 00:41:03,162
menacing

905
00:41:04,662 --> 00:41:07,582
plot that he, you know, that this guy would be a guy that,

906
00:41:07,622 --> 00:41:10,606
like, to cover up his sins. He will. He would,

907
00:41:10,654 --> 00:41:13,242
like, put his daughter away in a place like Arkham.

908
00:41:13,982 --> 00:41:15,278
>> Sarah : I will be honest.

909
00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:15,978
>> Will: Yeah.

910
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:19,790
>> Sarah : I did not interpret it that to be

911
00:41:19,830 --> 00:41:22,062
that menace scene of a betrayal.

912
00:41:22,246 --> 00:41:24,930
>> Will: I. Yeah, well, it was, it was, it was

913
00:41:25,390 --> 00:41:27,662
a physicality of it, not so much.

914
00:41:27,766 --> 00:41:30,590
>> Sarah : Yeah, well, well, I just say that because the

915
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:33,502
whole time I'm thinking to myself, I could

916
00:41:33,526 --> 00:41:36,502
have sworn will told me that this was going to be played by the

917
00:41:36,526 --> 00:41:39,446
same actor who's from the movie. This is not

918
00:41:39,478 --> 00:41:40,726
the same actor.

919
00:41:40,878 --> 00:41:43,598
>> Will: No, no, I told you. Yeah, I told you he was not going to be in there.

920
00:41:43,694 --> 00:41:46,254
>> Sarah : Oh, see? And I remember the

921
00:41:46,302 --> 00:41:47,170
opposite.

922
00:41:48,970 --> 00:41:50,834
>> Will: He was like, that's not John derues.

923
00:41:50,962 --> 00:41:53,722
>> Sarah : Yeah. And then even so,

924
00:41:53,866 --> 00:41:56,826
like, whether I knew or not, I'm still watching and being

925
00:41:56,858 --> 00:41:59,150
like, that's not John Detoro. No.

926
00:41:59,490 --> 00:42:02,298
That's so weird to me.

927
00:42:03,754 --> 00:42:06,690
>> Sarah : and, but I almost feel as though that's

928
00:42:06,722 --> 00:42:09,602
why we didn't see as much from

929
00:42:09,658 --> 00:42:12,610
him. And honestly, their scenes weren't

930
00:42:12,642 --> 00:42:14,454
even that long is because

931
00:42:16,234 --> 00:42:19,194
a lot of the audience has Scene the Batman,

932
00:42:19,314 --> 00:42:21,674
if not once, multiple times,

933
00:42:21,794 --> 00:42:24,690
and, and that's such

934
00:42:24,722 --> 00:42:26,490
a figure in that movie.

935
00:42:26,642 --> 00:42:27,186
>> Will: Yeah.

936
00:42:27,290 --> 00:42:29,978
>> Sarah : That it's just, it's really hard

937
00:42:30,146 --> 00:42:32,810
to then be like, yeah, but

938
00:42:32,962 --> 00:42:35,322
they did it. They did as best as they could.

939
00:42:35,418 --> 00:42:38,306
>> Will: Yeah, but to your point, though, I mean, they didn't need

940
00:42:38,330 --> 00:42:40,778
to be that long. I mean, I think that the points were

941
00:42:40,906 --> 00:42:41,662
made.

942
00:42:41,858 --> 00:42:44,734
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, no, they, they cut

943
00:42:44,774 --> 00:42:47,430
it down as much as they could to

944
00:42:47,502 --> 00:42:50,460
still keep the, the points, the

945
00:42:50,492 --> 00:42:53,428
same regardless. I just, I've,

946
00:42:53,516 --> 00:42:56,332
I didn't, I was distracted

947
00:42:56,468 --> 00:42:58,876
by the, stand

948
00:42:58,940 --> 00:42:59,544
in.

949
00:43:03,824 --> 00:43:06,502
but, but I'm glad that you weren't. I'm glad that you were.

950
00:43:06,558 --> 00:43:08,998
But, yeah, yeah, I knew.

951
00:43:09,046 --> 00:43:11,926
>> Will: I mean, I recognized it, but I was just like, I was like,

952
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:14,702
for stand, you know, for, for standing actor.

953
00:43:14,878 --> 00:43:16,046
It worked for me.

954
00:43:16,190 --> 00:43:16,630
>> Sarah : Yeah.

955
00:43:16,702 --> 00:43:18,982
>> Will: I mean, especially given it was ten years prior.

956
00:43:19,038 --> 00:43:22,030
>> Sarah : So, hey, I'm also telling

957
00:43:22,062 --> 00:43:24,870
you how the actor who plays Theo Rossi is his

958
00:43:24,902 --> 00:43:27,638
name. Theo Rossi who plays Julian, I'm like, I'm like,

959
00:43:27,686 --> 00:43:30,630
you're never not going to be that guy from Sons of

960
00:43:30,662 --> 00:43:32,196
Anarchy. Sorry.

961
00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:34,756
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it happens.

962
00:43:34,900 --> 00:43:37,772
>> Sarah : Yeah, it happens. I mean, that, that

963
00:43:37,828 --> 00:43:39,944
character I essentially spent

964
00:43:40,724 --> 00:43:42,544
like, seven years with,

965
00:43:44,604 --> 00:43:47,252
so with tv actors, it's really hard to

966
00:43:47,268 --> 00:43:50,068
get, get that

967
00:43:50,116 --> 00:43:52,630
out. But, while at the same

968
00:43:52,702 --> 00:43:55,014
time, you like seeing

969
00:43:55,134 --> 00:43:57,878
familiar actors, because you're like, oh, I know that

970
00:43:57,926 --> 00:43:58,540
guy.

971
00:43:58,702 --> 00:44:01,632
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, yeah. You know, if a certain

972
00:44:01,688 --> 00:44:04,664
person's actor, actress is playing a character,

973
00:44:04,744 --> 00:44:07,736
you know, because of, because of who it is, you know, you're going to get

974
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:08,764
a good performance.

975
00:44:09,104 --> 00:44:11,644
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right,

976
00:44:11,724 --> 00:44:14,588
well, that, that leads us

977
00:44:14,636 --> 00:44:17,376
to the, revenge plot

978
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,564
of it all. And

979
00:44:20,704 --> 00:44:22,084
so, Sophia,

980
00:44:23,394 --> 00:44:25,890
we. Sophia, we return to present day. And

981
00:44:25,922 --> 00:44:28,894
Sophia ends up going home to dinner

982
00:44:29,514 --> 00:44:32,274
to start. To start a

983
00:44:32,314 --> 00:44:34,294
new chapter in her life.

984
00:44:35,264 --> 00:44:37,840
and I'm sorry, but this

985
00:44:37,912 --> 00:44:40,848
just played out and reminded me

986
00:44:40,896 --> 00:44:43,760
so much of the Jack Nicholson scene

987
00:44:43,952 --> 00:44:45,724
from the Batman

988
00:44:46,544 --> 00:44:49,498
where they gasped the art.

989
00:44:49,626 --> 00:44:50,738
>> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah.

990
00:44:50,866 --> 00:44:53,082
>> Sarah : The museum. And they gas the plate. Right?

991
00:44:53,138 --> 00:44:53,970
>> Will: Yeah. Yep. Yep.

992
00:44:54,002 --> 00:44:56,674
>> Sarah : For some reason, like, bits and pieces

993
00:44:56,794 --> 00:44:59,362
of that scene, because I was a

994
00:44:59,378 --> 00:45:01,654
baby when that movie came out.

995
00:45:03,194 --> 00:45:06,074
I. But I vaguely remembered

996
00:45:06,114 --> 00:45:08,674
that. And so how this whole

997
00:45:08,834 --> 00:45:11,604
thing played out. it just.

998
00:45:11,724 --> 00:45:13,996
I felt. I'm like, this has to be some sort of

999
00:45:14,020 --> 00:45:17,006
homage, because she turned her house

1000
00:45:17,070 --> 00:45:19,686
into a gas chamber, essentially. And

1001
00:45:19,710 --> 00:45:22,654
so my. My question, though, is,

1002
00:45:22,774 --> 00:45:25,434
what was the timeline here? Because

1003
00:45:26,934 --> 00:45:29,598
when. When she gets up and

1004
00:45:29,646 --> 00:45:31,114
goes into the house.

1005
00:45:33,774 --> 00:45:36,670
So is that when she turns on the gas

1006
00:45:36,742 --> 00:45:39,174
or has the gas already been on?

1007
00:45:39,334 --> 00:45:40,620
>> Will: It's been on all night.

1008
00:45:40,782 --> 00:45:42,584
>> Sarah : It's been on all night. Okay.

1009
00:45:42,704 --> 00:45:43,120
>> Will: Yeah.

1010
00:45:43,192 --> 00:45:45,840
>> Sarah : And has then, has Johnny's

1011
00:45:45,992 --> 00:45:47,832
windows been open all night?

1012
00:45:47,968 --> 00:45:50,912
>> Will: Yeah, I guess he was. For whatever reason, he slept

1013
00:45:50,928 --> 00:45:52,124
with the window open.

1014
00:45:52,584 --> 00:45:55,152
>> Sarah : Okay. Or she. Or she made sure

1015
00:45:55,248 --> 00:45:57,176
to open the window.

1016
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,200
>> Will: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

1017
00:45:59,352 --> 00:46:00,048
>> Sarah : Now.

1018
00:46:00,216 --> 00:46:00,912
>> Will: Yeah.

1019
00:46:01,048 --> 00:46:03,600
>> Sarah : Are you thinking Luca is

1020
00:46:03,632 --> 00:46:04,200
dead?

1021
00:46:04,352 --> 00:46:06,906
>> Will: Oh, yeah. Lucas dead. He was. Like. He was. He was.

1022
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,230
They panned on him.

1023
00:46:08,342 --> 00:46:09,678
>> Sarah : They panned on him. Okay.

1024
00:46:09,766 --> 00:46:11,838
>> Will: Yeah, he was. Yeah. Yeah. Cause his,

1025
00:46:12,716 --> 00:46:15,476
his wife was on the floor, and he was, like, laid

1026
00:46:15,516 --> 00:46:16,776
over. Yeah, he was.

1027
00:46:17,116 --> 00:46:19,836
>> Sarah : Then why was Joe in bed when everybody

1028
00:46:19,876 --> 00:46:22,816
else seemed like they were still at the dinner table?

1029
00:46:23,156 --> 00:46:26,044
>> Will: So I think. So they had. They had a dinner party.

1030
00:46:26,140 --> 00:46:28,668
They. The dinner and

1031
00:46:28,812 --> 00:46:31,636
everything sort of played out with. With her

1032
00:46:31,676 --> 00:46:34,492
scene. And I love how she, like, named all the victims,

1033
00:46:34,524 --> 00:46:37,206
and I. And even, you know, dropped

1034
00:46:38,066 --> 00:46:40,898
in there that she's actually a victim of all. All these

1035
00:46:40,922 --> 00:46:43,006
people, too. Of carmine.

1036
00:46:43,826 --> 00:46:45,206
And then,

1037
00:46:46,846 --> 00:46:48,706
I guess they cut to.

1038
00:46:50,166 --> 00:46:52,998
I guess they cut to her going to the room. Her room

1039
00:46:53,062 --> 00:46:55,186
back up to her room. She pulls out the gun,

1040
00:46:56,086 --> 00:46:59,026
and I was just, like, I was wondering where they're going to go with that.

1041
00:46:59,546 --> 00:47:02,402
she lights a cigarette and stuff and opens the window or maybe.

1042
00:47:02,474 --> 00:47:05,242
Oh, actually, you know, what was

1043
00:47:05,274 --> 00:47:08,178
that? Maybe that was actually Beedi's room that

1044
00:47:08,202 --> 00:47:11,202
she went up to, because she did open the window to smoke, and she left

1045
00:47:11,234 --> 00:47:14,218
the window open, so. I bet. Yeah. So I think that's

1046
00:47:14,242 --> 00:47:17,210
what it was. That's when she went up there. So it was planned. She

1047
00:47:17,258 --> 00:47:19,674
planned to keep BDO alive. Yeah.

1048
00:47:19,810 --> 00:47:22,416
>> Sarah : Yeah, that makes. That makes sense. yeah, so that's.

1049
00:47:22,472 --> 00:47:23,308
>> Will: That was the moment.

1050
00:47:23,308 --> 00:47:25,656
>> Sarah : Ah. Everybody else was still partying.

1051
00:47:25,792 --> 00:47:28,320
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so they. Yeah, so

1052
00:47:28,504 --> 00:47:31,384
she yeah, everybody else goes to. Yeah, they party. She

1053
00:47:31,416 --> 00:47:34,208
gets her niece. I don't know if

1054
00:47:36,028 --> 00:47:38,528
the little girl. Her niece or her

1055
00:47:39,308 --> 00:47:40,164
cousin.

1056
00:47:40,356 --> 00:47:42,036
>> Sarah : We're gonna just call her the niece.

1057
00:47:42,132 --> 00:47:45,116
>> Will: Yeah, the niece or the cousin and make sure she's out

1058
00:47:45,132 --> 00:47:47,836
of the house while everybody else crashes. And

1059
00:47:47,892 --> 00:47:50,612
she. Yeah, she had turned on the gas and. Yeah, and.

1060
00:47:50,660 --> 00:47:53,248
Yeah. Just made everyone asphyxiate.

1061
00:47:53,630 --> 00:47:56,346
some carbon monoxide poisoning. And except for Johnny.

1062
00:47:56,646 --> 00:47:58,666
>> Sarah : Yeah. Who went to bed.

1063
00:48:02,296 --> 00:48:05,168
>> Will: I guess he couldn't have his little trice with Lucas wife because

1064
00:48:05,232 --> 00:48:06,236
they were there together.

1065
00:48:06,656 --> 00:48:09,440
>> Sarah : I just don't understand. I

1066
00:48:09,488 --> 00:48:11,880
need someone to explain that to me.

1067
00:48:12,008 --> 00:48:14,166
>> Will: Well, I think that goes back to, like, some of the,

1068
00:48:14,606 --> 00:48:17,366
Yeah. What about. What is it about

1069
00:48:17,406 --> 00:48:20,070
viti that she keeps. Keeps him around? Maybe because

1070
00:48:20,158 --> 00:48:20,576
he has,

1071
00:48:21,626 --> 00:48:24,536
>> Sarah : See, I'm not even questioning that. I'm just

1072
00:48:24,626 --> 00:48:27,564
questioning how is it that everybody else

1073
00:48:27,660 --> 00:48:30,476
was, like, partying it up and

1074
00:48:30,516 --> 00:48:33,052
Vidi's, like, in bed to the

1075
00:48:33,084 --> 00:48:35,916
point where he doesn't even get woken

1076
00:48:35,996 --> 00:48:38,804
up by, like, a lot of thuds of people just,

1077
00:48:38,860 --> 00:48:41,676
like, falling randomly? I don't

1078
00:48:41,716 --> 00:48:44,020
know. It's a big house.

1079
00:48:44,188 --> 00:48:45,180
>> Will: It is a big house.

1080
00:48:45,308 --> 00:48:48,308
>> Sarah : Weird to me that he's like, clearly, he

1081
00:48:48,332 --> 00:48:51,148
put on his pajamas, he rushed

1082
00:48:51,172 --> 00:48:54,138
his. Well, like,

1083
00:48:54,242 --> 00:48:57,170
then my whole. I just. I know I'm never going to

1084
00:48:57,178 --> 00:48:59,206
get an answer to this. I understand.

1085
00:49:00,146 --> 00:49:03,090
But at the same time, it was a little bit weird.

1086
00:49:03,218 --> 00:49:05,606
I mean, for Joe. Well executed

1087
00:49:05,986 --> 00:49:07,162
episode.

1088
00:49:07,354 --> 00:49:09,406
>> Will: Yeah, well, she. I guess you.

1089
00:49:10,426 --> 00:49:13,274
Yeah. Fair. Good. That's a good point.

1090
00:49:13,330 --> 00:49:15,954
That's. That's. That's logic. Logic.

1091
00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:18,894
Yeah. yeah, I. Logic. That's not a

1092
00:49:18,910 --> 00:49:21,586
play in a comic book show in this instance.

1093
00:49:22,846 --> 00:49:25,790
>> Sarah : As for Johnny, he's

1094
00:49:25,838 --> 00:49:26,706
so far,

1095
00:49:28,566 --> 00:49:30,906
arguably even more than Luca.

1096
00:49:31,366 --> 00:49:33,318
Between Sophia and

1097
00:49:33,462 --> 00:49:36,438
Penguin, he's been, like,

1098
00:49:36,502 --> 00:49:39,462
the one to get taken

1099
00:49:39,534 --> 00:49:42,198
down. And it's probably because he's

1100
00:49:42,262 --> 00:49:45,070
the right hand man. And arguably the one.

1101
00:49:45,198 --> 00:49:47,878
The right hand man knows a lot more than the

1102
00:49:47,902 --> 00:49:50,898
head, so, yeah. he may not have as

1103
00:49:50,922 --> 00:49:51,106
much.

1104
00:49:51,146 --> 00:49:53,762
>> Will: Power, but he knows where the bodies are buried.

1105
00:49:53,834 --> 00:49:54,394
Yep.

1106
00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:57,274
>> Sarah : Yeah. So he

1107
00:49:57,330 --> 00:50:00,234
also may be. Be used in a

1108
00:50:00,250 --> 00:50:03,162
way of the enemy of my enemies, my friend. So if she

1109
00:50:03,194 --> 00:50:06,050
wants to go after Oz, then

1110
00:50:06,098 --> 00:50:08,922
VD is the guy to partner with, because VD have also

1111
00:50:08,994 --> 00:50:11,938
been wanting to get. Take a penguin out for a

1112
00:50:11,962 --> 00:50:12,786
while now, so.

1113
00:50:12,866 --> 00:50:13,638
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

1114
00:50:13,702 --> 00:50:16,230
>> Sarah : So. So, yeah, I can. I can see

1115
00:50:16,278 --> 00:50:19,040
that. as long as she has the upper hand, which

1116
00:50:19,128 --> 00:50:21,952
I think she still has, black nail and all that stuff.

1117
00:50:21,984 --> 00:50:24,552
But I don't know what the black nail would do, do her any good

1118
00:50:24,584 --> 00:50:27,264
for considering, like, if Lucas

1119
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:28,816
dead and everything, but yeah.

1120
00:50:29,150 --> 00:50:32,016
>> Will: I'm, pretty sure Luca. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's dead. Yeah. Because otherwise

1121
00:50:32,064 --> 00:50:34,712
we'll be. Yeah. I mean, they pretty much removed

1122
00:50:34,872 --> 00:50:37,832
the whole falcon except for VD

1123
00:50:37,912 --> 00:50:40,864
family off the table, which is, you know, because that makes.

1124
00:50:40,968 --> 00:50:43,884
Because it, you know, again, we are, you know, at the very

1125
00:50:44,028 --> 00:50:46,884
outset of this, of this show, after the

1126
00:50:46,908 --> 00:50:49,306
flood with the riddler, you know,

1127
00:50:49,474 --> 00:50:52,466
there creates. There's the power

1128
00:50:52,514 --> 00:50:55,186
vacuum that. That eventually the penguin

1129
00:50:55,234 --> 00:50:58,210
will. That we know will end up filling. So this is

1130
00:50:58,346 --> 00:51:00,342
part one of that vacuum,

1131
00:51:01,722 --> 00:51:04,522
part one of that whole

1132
00:51:04,562 --> 00:51:07,560
segment being taken care of except for VD. And,

1133
00:51:07,576 --> 00:51:10,372
of course, media will be eventually taken care of as well.

1134
00:51:11,232 --> 00:51:14,088
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. All

1135
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,840
right. Well, I think that is

1136
00:51:16,896 --> 00:51:19,584
it for us tonight. Will, why don't you tell our

1137
00:51:19,608 --> 00:51:21,264
listeners where they can find you?

1138
00:51:21,408 --> 00:51:24,324
>> Will: Yes, you can find me at, Will

1139
00:51:24,388 --> 00:51:26,676
and Polk on, x, formerly known as Twitter. That

1140
00:51:26,732 --> 00:51:29,204
willmmpolk.

1141
00:51:29,356 --> 00:51:31,508
>> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at SJ Mamon

1142
00:51:31,548 --> 00:51:34,428
sjblmont M. Please follow our crew there at

1143
00:51:34,468 --> 00:51:37,378
the friend us on Facebook, follow us on

1144
00:51:37,418 --> 00:51:40,210
Instagram and threads at scene underscore

1145
00:51:40,274 --> 00:51:42,474
n Nerd and visit our website,

1146
00:51:42,546 --> 00:51:45,412
www. Dot, sceneanderdpodcast.com. but most

1147
00:51:45,444 --> 00:51:48,188
importantly, write, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts,

1148
00:51:48,212 --> 00:51:51,068
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcasts. Good night.

1149
00:51:51,092 --> 00:51:51,876
Geek out. You're welcome.