Diving into Shogun FX: A Scene N Nerd Podcast Review of Episodes 2-4

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>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont,

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and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, will Polk How are you

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doing tonight.

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>> Will: Will, happy pie day. Doing very well. Hope you're

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doing well.

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>> Sarah : Sarah, you are such a.

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Nerd

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>> Will: Yes.

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>> Sarah : My God. did you have any pie

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today?

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>> Will: I did not have any pie today.

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I, should have, but,

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never got the opportunity, to go to

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the bakery or anything to get some.

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>> Sarah : No, me neither. Did not have any

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pie of a baking kind

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or a pizza pie.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, no pizza pie either. Yeah,

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dinner was so.

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>> Sarah : you know, we don't have a chick fil a up here.

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>> Will: Really?

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>> Sarah : Yeah. I've only ever had it one time, and that was

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back in August of last

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year when I was in Barbara.

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>> Will: Oh, yeah.

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>> Sarah : That's the first time I've ever had chicken

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filet. First and only.

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>> Will: Did it live up to the hype?

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>> Sarah : Well, it wasn't really hyped.

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I was with my coworker, and we were trying to figure out where to

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go to eat, and she realized we were in short

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distance to a chickfila, and she's like, no, we're going there.

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I'm like, okay. It made no difference

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to me. It was

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just fried chicken with

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fries.

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>> Will: Yeah, true. Cool. Yeah, I

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just remember here in the lower

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48, I guess a few years ago, there was the

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whole popeyes thing where people were lining

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up around the corner

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and even happened here in Durham where when they had to introduce their

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chicken sandwich, it was madness, I tell

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you. But, people take

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their chicken sandwiches pretty seriously down here in the

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lower 48.

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>> Sarah : Well, I'm not saying we don't

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up here, but

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anyways, other things that people take

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seriously and some people don't are the Oscars, which

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were held this past Sunday.

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will, did you watch?

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>> Will: Actually, I did. This is the first time I've

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watched, probably watched about 85% to

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90% of the ceremony.

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>> Sarah : Nice.

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>> Will: In a while. Yeah. This

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year was just one of those years where I think,

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obviously, the Barbenheimer phenomenon.

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And, I know last week when we had our

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discussion, we were wondering if it was going to,

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clean up, but, I thought overall

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it won seven awards, but I think all

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things, it was not evenly

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distributed. But other movies did

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get Oscar love as well, except for

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killers for the flower moon.

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Maestro. And, was

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that, can't, remember the other one,

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but, that was shut out. That was also nominated best picture.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, well, there was ten movies

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nominated.

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>> Will: Yeah. But there was one

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past lives. Past lives. That's the one I was thinking about past lives.

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>> Sarah : There you go. Now I just

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realized I've seen three because I've seen past

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lives.

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>> Will: Yeah, that was the one I was thinking about last week. I guess I

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got it. And, the

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one that Emma stone won for. Yeah, four things

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confuse, mixed up, but.

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>> Sarah : I remember you watching very different movies.

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>> Will: Yeah, for sure.

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No, I just remember you watching one of

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those two. I know you blanked on

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it, but then, as you just

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recalled.

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>> Sarah : I watched three. So I saw Oppenheimer.

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Duh. Like majority of the

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people did,

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Oppenheimer, past lives.

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And I saw, anatomy of

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a.

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>> Will: You know, I've heard people talk about anatomy

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of a fall, and I know it won best original screenplay, but I did not realize

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it until literally, looking at the,

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preparing for our discussion tonight, that it was a french courtroom

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drama.

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>> Sarah : I'm pretty sure I talked about it on the show

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and I might have mentioned, I don't

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know if I mentioned so much the French or the

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fact that the sun in it is death,

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and how that played into the whole thing. But

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it's definitely a movie. You don't want to know too much because

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it's not that big of a plot,

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but it's surprising how much English is used in

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it. So I wouldn't necessarily

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classify it as a french movie, just like I wouldn't

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classify, past lives as a korean

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movie because they

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use both languages

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throughout the entire thing. So it's like 50

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50.

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but this is how much I did not like

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past lives. I completely forgot about it.

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I watched that months ago.

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>> Will: Yeah. Which is probably why

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many academy voters felt the same way.

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>> Sarah : Well, but at the time, I mean,

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even Snyder, I think, said, I think you told me

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that he said he watched both past

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lives and Oppenheimer and got more

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feeling left with it, hitting

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him harder with past lives than Oppenheimer.

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Now, I would say neither movie because

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Oppenheimer is good. I completely

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understand it. Bravo to Nolan for getting

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his best directing award.

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Killian Robert Downing Jr. Who I called

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from the moment I watched the movie, was going to get

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that, or at least I was rooting for him to get

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it the whole time. So I

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understand the praise for it. At the same

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time, I

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still have it stuck in my head. Something

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that some critics said a long time

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ago about Nolan. And I think it was around the

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time interstellar came out. It's just that his movies, at the

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end of the day, are cold

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and they're

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beautiful. They're,

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a tour de force of sorts.

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But at the end of the day,

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it's not that the characters aren't dynamic. It's

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not that the character stories are not

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fascinating. It's just that

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they don't tend to pull at your

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heartstrings as,

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So from that standpoint,

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I have that in back my mind whenever I'm watching a Nolan

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movie where I'm like, I enjoy this,

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but it's not something

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that I feel as though

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I know the characters, and I want to be

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in their world for a full day or something.

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>> Will: I don't remember

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whenever we talked about Oppenheimer, that was

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one of the things that we did discuss. And

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I agree with you that his movies are,

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because I think I watched

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Dunkirk,

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right around the time, I think either right before Oppenheimer or after,

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just because I was just like, I'm just on a Nolan kick,

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and did that. But, I will say Oppenheimer

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still to this day, still resonates with me as

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far as. Just like, that ending. Spoiler alert. If you haven't seen

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it, and in particular speech,

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that interaction with one of a very

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famous physicist,

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and all that, still

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rings with me as far as that

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film.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I like how you said spoiler and you didn't

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even name the physicist. You still were masking

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it under a non spoiler.

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Anyways,

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so I did not watch the oscars. I've seen the

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clips. I've, of course, watched Ryan Gosling

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perform. I've seen John

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Scene N nudity.

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I watched a few of the acceptance

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speeches. And for

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the most part, the only other thing that I

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had thought about was just the fact that,

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across the spiderverse got robbed.

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>> Will: Well, I won't say it got

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robbed. I haven't watched the

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boy in the heron, so I can't objectively say it got

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robbed. But I know Shamik Moore,

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who voices, miles, definitely said that, but

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he walked it back a little bit,

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after, he was cooled down a bit.

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but I was surprised, that it did not win.

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But I think we were like, maybe, we've mentioned this before,

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maybe either here on the podcast or maybe just

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talking, and I even mentioned it to you the other night when we're messaging

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that maybe it's like a middle

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of a trilogy thing where they're like, we'll give you your

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flowers when we see the full.

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>> Sarah : Mean. They have. The Oscars

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have something against that middle

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movie. And I get it. For the most

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part, I understand why Oscar

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voters might be like, yeah, but it didn't really have an

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ending because it was to be continued.

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So it was half of a story.

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You can make that argument, but to this

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day, that is one of the one movie.

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Granted, I did not watch a lot of movies last year,

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but one movie that I have rewatched

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one time.

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>> Will: That'S all I need is one time. That's a rewatch. It

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counts.

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>> Sarah : And it's a good movie. It's well

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paced. It's comedy.

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There's remnants of the. It's a

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really good sequel at the end of the day.

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and yeah,

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I was a bit disappointed by that. But I

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also understand,

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I can see how

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the voters might

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go after something else.

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that is one story a little bit more

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underrated. I get it.

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it was so good, though.

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>> Will: Yeah. And I think also, I think I read somewhere where this

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was,

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Hayozaki's last film,

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because I think he's like 87 years old or something like that. As far as the

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director, for the boy and a heron.

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So maybe that also

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played into it some as well.

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>> Sarah : Maybe. You never know

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because we're not a part of academy, so we do

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not know how those things

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work.

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and on that note, we're going to dive into

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the first of three episodes of Shogun. We

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have to cover, Shogun, episode

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two, servants of two masters. The

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IMDb episode

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summary says Blackthorn's arrival

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in Osaka stirs up a

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hornet's nest of rivalries.

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Marico is trapped between her cause and

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her face when she must translate for the

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barbarian in Lord, Torinaga's

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custody. So that

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is it. And I have

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tried practicing. It's just that when I'm

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reading something, letters make my

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tongue do different things. Anyway,

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will, what did you think about this episode?

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>> Will: And really, the theme for all three of these episodes we'll

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discuss tonight.

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When you look at the story and stuff and

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the mechanisms, as far as the characters in

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there, the titles really

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do illustrate what's going on there

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because, as you

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noted, Mariko's

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trap between her cause and her faith. And

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that really does capture the

265
00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:34,550
dynamics that were going

266
00:12:34,604 --> 00:12:37,574
on with the

267
00:12:37,596 --> 00:12:40,268
servant of two masters, where she is

268
00:12:40,418 --> 00:12:43,292
serving as a translator for the, you

269
00:12:43,330 --> 00:12:44,638
know, the question comes,

270
00:12:47,008 --> 00:12:49,864
know this man, meaning Blackthorn, insulted

271
00:12:49,896 --> 00:12:52,872
your faith. Will that impact

272
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,724
your ability to translate for know? So there's

273
00:12:55,756 --> 00:12:58,348
those kind of things. And also just the dynamics

274
00:12:58,428 --> 00:12:59,058
between,

275
00:13:01,108 --> 00:13:03,456
Shiba and

276
00:13:03,622 --> 00:13:06,538
Shido and Tornaga, as far as

277
00:13:07,468 --> 00:13:09,438
Yashibe trying to

278
00:13:10,448 --> 00:13:13,164
play off both of the two masters, and he's trying

279
00:13:13,186 --> 00:13:15,936
to serve both of them

280
00:13:16,102 --> 00:13:18,992
as far as their particular ends. And

281
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:21,840
also, I really like

282
00:13:21,894 --> 00:13:24,258
the way that they started to peel back

283
00:13:25,508 --> 00:13:28,004
the story and really get into some of

284
00:13:28,026 --> 00:13:31,012
the bigger things that are going on

285
00:13:31,210 --> 00:13:34,068
in the world at that time.

286
00:13:34,218 --> 00:13:37,098
>> Sarah : Yeah. this episode,

287
00:13:37,918 --> 00:13:40,830
episode two servants of two masters. I can

288
00:13:40,884 --> 00:13:43,674
appreciate them dropping

289
00:13:43,786 --> 00:13:46,106
this and the first episode

290
00:13:46,202 --> 00:13:48,750
together. However, I

291
00:13:48,804 --> 00:13:51,786
like how we didn't watch them back to back,

292
00:13:51,892 --> 00:13:54,622
because I feel as though the pilot

293
00:13:54,670 --> 00:13:56,498
episode, pun intended,

294
00:13:57,638 --> 00:13:59,668
was really good at

295
00:14:00,998 --> 00:14:03,906
setting the stage, but leaving a

296
00:14:03,912 --> 00:14:06,598
lot of questions about what was really

297
00:14:06,668 --> 00:14:09,510
happening. While I believe in

298
00:14:09,564 --> 00:14:12,454
this episode, we got a lot of answers and

299
00:14:12,476 --> 00:14:15,318
we got a lot of structure about who are friends,

300
00:14:15,388 --> 00:14:18,298
who are enemies, what are our players,

301
00:14:19,678 --> 00:14:21,610
and how is

302
00:14:21,664 --> 00:14:24,598
blackthorn. And Blackthorn

303
00:14:24,678 --> 00:14:27,258
is more focused

304
00:14:27,598 --> 00:14:30,398
starting in this episode, moving

305
00:14:30,468 --> 00:14:33,330
forward. But at the same time, we get to learn

306
00:14:33,384 --> 00:14:35,858
a lot about Toranaga as we even

307
00:14:35,928 --> 00:14:38,882
start with a flashback to the night of

308
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,710
Lord Teko's death, which is really

309
00:14:41,864 --> 00:14:44,758
the start of this whole chain of events.

310
00:14:45,398 --> 00:14:48,290
in we.

311
00:14:48,424 --> 00:14:51,394
We have him, and then he explains what

312
00:14:51,416 --> 00:14:54,342
the council of regents are, which we didn't have that

313
00:14:54,380 --> 00:14:57,334
information beforehand in the first episode, even though

314
00:14:57,356 --> 00:15:00,142
we saw the council. but now we see how

315
00:15:00,180 --> 00:15:02,048
it's created. And,

316
00:15:03,738 --> 00:15:06,550
it's kind of a safety net of

317
00:15:06,604 --> 00:15:09,402
sort that he

318
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,994
put in place until his son

319
00:15:12,096 --> 00:15:15,034
turns 16. Now, there was a

320
00:15:15,056 --> 00:15:17,830
look. There was a look. And I am listening

321
00:15:17,894 --> 00:15:20,304
to, Roca's podcast that he

322
00:15:20,326 --> 00:15:23,212
does, and he's right

323
00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:25,852
now talking with someone about the show and doing their

324
00:15:25,890 --> 00:15:28,764
reviews of a book reader. And I

325
00:15:28,786 --> 00:15:31,420
can appreciate that the book reader is not spoiling

326
00:15:31,484 --> 00:15:33,618
things, as far as I can tell.

327
00:15:34,528 --> 00:15:37,198
now, so from what I understand,

328
00:15:38,208 --> 00:15:40,700
it's even more kind

329
00:15:40,754 --> 00:15:43,406
of, evident in the book

330
00:15:43,492 --> 00:15:45,786
that potentially the heir

331
00:15:45,882 --> 00:15:46,528
is.

332
00:15:49,538 --> 00:15:52,128
>> Will: Even. Even thinking.

333
00:15:52,658 --> 00:15:55,514
As I mentioned to you, I was going to rewatch this episode because

334
00:15:55,556 --> 00:15:58,178
I watched it late last week, and

335
00:15:58,328 --> 00:16:01,050
one of the lines, with that

336
00:16:01,104 --> 00:16:04,090
look that you're talking about and that

337
00:16:04,144 --> 00:16:06,138
Tycho and Toronaga,

338
00:16:07,008 --> 00:16:09,948
when he's lying there, it's like the thing,

339
00:16:09,948 --> 00:16:12,806
he says we shit in each other. Shit too many times in

340
00:16:12,828 --> 00:16:14,680
the same pot to piss on,

341
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,584
our feet or something. And so I was just like, oh,

342
00:16:20,622 --> 00:16:23,130
yeah, there's definitely some history,

343
00:16:28,220 --> 00:16:31,148
their whole. Their whole back and forth. And you

344
00:16:31,154 --> 00:16:34,044
can tell for me, watching that

345
00:16:34,082 --> 00:16:36,588
scene, it makes sense why

346
00:16:36,754 --> 00:16:39,608
he, not only because Tornaga's

347
00:16:39,624 --> 00:16:42,204
menowir, which of course, he's high

348
00:16:42,242 --> 00:16:44,050
born, but also

349
00:16:45,620 --> 00:16:48,412
he understands. And, they have a history

350
00:16:48,482 --> 00:16:51,468
there and a level of trust there that I

351
00:16:51,490 --> 00:16:54,396
guess he knows that he can

352
00:16:54,434 --> 00:16:57,132
trust Tarnaga to do the right thing

353
00:16:57,282 --> 00:17:00,128
with his son, because he's going to follow tradition and

354
00:17:00,150 --> 00:17:02,402
not use this as an opportunity

355
00:17:03,092 --> 00:17:05,872
to usurp and make himself

356
00:17:06,532 --> 00:17:08,262
maybe like a shido would,

357
00:17:09,242 --> 00:17:12,166
shogun over the

358
00:17:12,204 --> 00:17:15,138
country and also really keep the peace

359
00:17:15,170 --> 00:17:17,192
and not leave things and lead into war.

360
00:17:17,562 --> 00:17:18,312
>> Sarah : Right.

361
00:17:20,962 --> 00:17:23,646
well, yeah, we'll get

362
00:17:23,684 --> 00:17:24,272
there.

363
00:17:27,782 --> 00:17:30,386
I had a thought about where to go to next.

364
00:17:30,584 --> 00:17:33,366
So something that I really appreciate about

365
00:17:33,404 --> 00:17:36,038
this episode was also the more

366
00:17:36,140 --> 00:17:38,918
emphasis on explaining the

367
00:17:38,940 --> 00:17:41,912
portuguese and the

368
00:17:43,562 --> 00:17:46,280
how I like how, something

369
00:17:46,366 --> 00:17:49,364
happened in Macau that the Portuguese

370
00:17:49,508 --> 00:17:52,072
are trying to hide. And it's detailed in

371
00:17:52,142 --> 00:17:53,764
Blackthorn's journals.

372
00:17:53,908 --> 00:17:54,264
>> Will: Right.

373
00:17:54,318 --> 00:17:56,708
>> Sarah : So now the Portuguese

374
00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:59,262
want Blackthorn gone,

375
00:17:59,562 --> 00:18:02,214
because he's a threat, because he has

376
00:18:02,268 --> 00:18:05,014
information about how the

377
00:18:05,068 --> 00:18:07,874
portuguese and the Spanish have divided

378
00:18:07,938 --> 00:18:10,758
up the map and all of these unclaimed

379
00:18:10,790 --> 00:18:13,574
countries, and Japan falls

380
00:18:13,638 --> 00:18:15,772
under the portuguese line.

381
00:18:16,622 --> 00:18:19,590
Now, the Japanese are not aware

382
00:18:19,606 --> 00:18:21,984
of this, until at the very

383
00:18:22,038 --> 00:18:24,352
end, when,

384
00:18:24,442 --> 00:18:27,272
Blackthorn draws his own map of the world

385
00:18:28,202 --> 00:18:29,912
and explains things.

386
00:18:31,102 --> 00:18:33,312
and I just like how

387
00:18:36,642 --> 00:18:39,518
they dropped it at the very beginning, and

388
00:18:39,540 --> 00:18:42,254
then they gave you a lot of

389
00:18:42,308 --> 00:18:45,074
other things to pay attention to and to follow

390
00:18:45,128 --> 00:18:48,024
through on. but really, the main

391
00:18:48,078 --> 00:18:50,072
point was explaining

392
00:18:50,652 --> 00:18:53,576
why a black foreign could be viewed as an

393
00:18:53,614 --> 00:18:56,202
ally, and not an enemy.

394
00:18:56,562 --> 00:18:59,152
And also, at the same time,

395
00:18:59,602 --> 00:19:02,202
just the larger

396
00:19:02,282 --> 00:19:04,730
politics that extend beyond

397
00:19:04,906 --> 00:19:07,374
just the internal fighting within

398
00:19:07,428 --> 00:19:10,286
Japan. And I think that's

399
00:19:10,334 --> 00:19:13,326
why I'm finding this show to be so multilayered,

400
00:19:13,374 --> 00:19:16,242
because you have this

401
00:19:16,312 --> 00:19:18,878
infighting, but you also have this bigger

402
00:19:18,910 --> 00:19:21,426
picture going on. And so

403
00:19:21,624 --> 00:19:24,230
you have Tornaga in the middle,

404
00:19:24,396 --> 00:19:26,822
who, now that he's aware,

405
00:19:27,562 --> 00:19:29,752
is trying to not only

406
00:19:30,362 --> 00:19:33,182
outmaneuver his,

407
00:19:33,132 --> 00:19:35,592
rivals on the council, but

408
00:19:35,662 --> 00:19:36,282
also

409
00:19:38,332 --> 00:19:41,176
put on his big boy pants and try to

410
00:19:41,214 --> 00:19:43,674
outmaneuver, these

411
00:19:43,728 --> 00:19:46,654
countries who have these people

412
00:19:46,708 --> 00:19:48,832
of power that he doesn't even know about

413
00:19:49,762 --> 00:19:52,270
and who are making, trying to step up to

414
00:19:52,276 --> 00:19:54,722
that find. I find,

415
00:19:55,312 --> 00:19:58,024
that to be very clever

416
00:19:58,088 --> 00:20:00,966
and very entertaining, to.

417
00:20:01,164 --> 00:20:02,806
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I do.

418
00:20:03,004 --> 00:20:05,946
You know, it gets back to the title, too, as far as two

419
00:20:05,984 --> 00:20:08,630
masters, because in Blackthorne's

420
00:20:08,726 --> 00:20:11,582
case, he has two masters,

421
00:20:12,002 --> 00:20:14,768
in the sense that one, he

422
00:20:14,790 --> 00:20:17,788
serves the queen because he's Englishman, but he's

423
00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:20,192
also been hired by the Dutch

424
00:20:21,172 --> 00:20:24,084
to traverse, open up these

425
00:20:24,138 --> 00:20:24,932
lanes.

426
00:20:27,832 --> 00:20:30,676
The issue of whether or not he was a pirate came

427
00:20:30,714 --> 00:20:33,620
up. On the

428
00:20:33,626 --> 00:20:36,152
one hand. Yeah, if you look at it from the dutch standpoint,

429
00:20:37,532 --> 00:20:39,812
there was in those journals

430
00:20:39,972 --> 00:20:42,648
highlighting the fact that you could look at the

431
00:20:42,670 --> 00:20:45,160
actions that they were doing were some form of

432
00:20:45,166 --> 00:20:48,100
piracy. But on the other hand, as he was

433
00:20:48,126 --> 00:20:50,524
drawing his map and talking about the mean m, he

434
00:20:50,578 --> 00:20:53,244
also had the role, as far as under

435
00:20:53,298 --> 00:20:56,156
crown, of trying to open

436
00:20:56,194 --> 00:20:58,812
up. You know, he was talking to

437
00:20:58,882 --> 00:21:00,752
Tornaga about the queen

438
00:21:02,372 --> 00:21:04,882
and being the diplomat as well.

439
00:21:05,412 --> 00:21:07,732
Again, you're right.

440
00:21:08,102 --> 00:21:10,418
Having not only the

441
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:11,602
internal

442
00:21:12,682 --> 00:21:15,510
political dynamics going on there

443
00:21:15,596 --> 00:21:18,246
in Osaka Castle, but then

444
00:21:18,284 --> 00:21:21,158
also when you bring it out to the

445
00:21:21,180 --> 00:21:24,086
larger world and you look at all these great powers, other

446
00:21:24,124 --> 00:21:26,412
great powers of the world, fighting over

447
00:21:27,022 --> 00:21:30,010
these swaths of land, and then, of

448
00:21:30,016 --> 00:21:32,698
course, throwing the religious element, too, because the

449
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,226
Portuguese, the

450
00:21:35,264 --> 00:21:38,262
church, is also

451
00:21:38,432 --> 00:21:41,294
trying to profit from the riches with

452
00:21:41,348 --> 00:21:44,254
Macau and having the ronin there,

453
00:21:44,308 --> 00:21:47,198
as far as with

454
00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:50,178
the Spanish, fortress and stuff. So, I mean, there's just all

455
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,994
those little things that are going on that really does

456
00:21:53,048 --> 00:21:55,492
make a very layered story.

457
00:21:56,262 --> 00:21:57,012
>> Sarah : Yeah.

458
00:21:57,892 --> 00:22:00,716
Ah, the last bit, that

459
00:22:00,754 --> 00:22:03,596
I want to mention is that in this episode,

460
00:22:03,644 --> 00:22:06,364
we find out that Shogun in Japan

461
00:22:06,428 --> 00:22:09,282
is the ultimate rank a mortal can.

462
00:22:16,972 --> 00:22:19,796
>> Will: that was another thing, too. Like, whenever,

463
00:22:19,872 --> 00:22:22,798
Ashido was doing the bureaucratic

464
00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:25,092
things and

465
00:22:25,702 --> 00:22:28,678
ordering Blackthorn to

466
00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:31,512
be imprisoned and all that,

467
00:22:32,092 --> 00:22:34,964
he would look over to the armor, because he would look

468
00:22:34,986 --> 00:22:37,764
around and you would see the tycho's armor, who was the

469
00:22:37,786 --> 00:22:38,358
last.

470
00:22:44,348 --> 00:22:45,658
He's doing these

471
00:22:46,508 --> 00:22:49,464
ministerial duties and having

472
00:22:49,566 --> 00:22:52,556
thoughts of grandchildren, while he's just being a

473
00:22:52,562 --> 00:22:55,518
bureaucrat, essentially. And then seeing all these other

474
00:22:56,048 --> 00:22:57,228
three regents,

475
00:22:59,018 --> 00:23:01,878
fight over with the christian regents,

476
00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:05,370
doing their political things again,

477
00:23:05,504 --> 00:23:08,454
working their two masters. They're serving

478
00:23:08,486 --> 00:23:11,130
of two masters. There's the thing

479
00:23:11,184 --> 00:23:13,866
of trying to enrich themselves

480
00:23:14,032 --> 00:23:16,878
as far as having these

481
00:23:17,028 --> 00:23:18,638
relations with the church

482
00:23:20,338 --> 00:23:22,782
and using these trade routes and stuff, but

483
00:23:22,820 --> 00:23:23,408
also,

484
00:23:26,838 --> 00:23:29,688
having their faith as well as far as

485
00:23:31,418 --> 00:23:34,288
being converted and doing things under,

486
00:23:34,286 --> 00:23:37,240
the guise of religion and worship and those kind

487
00:23:37,262 --> 00:23:40,260
of things. Again, like you said earlier,

488
00:23:40,292 --> 00:23:42,860
it really did sort of set the table, as far

489
00:23:42,882 --> 00:23:45,740
as I'm glad we didn't watch them back

490
00:23:45,762 --> 00:23:48,174
to back, because you're right. I think it gave

491
00:23:49,104 --> 00:23:51,948
an opportunity to really get

492
00:23:51,986 --> 00:23:54,716
a better grasp or

493
00:23:54,770 --> 00:23:57,580
handle on a lot of the players

494
00:23:57,692 --> 00:24:00,560
in this universe that I felt like if I watched these things back

495
00:24:00,582 --> 00:24:03,244
to back, I would have gotten it. But

496
00:24:04,974 --> 00:24:07,886
I think, spreading out had me a chance to

497
00:24:07,908 --> 00:24:09,680
marinate it on it a little bit more.

498
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,140
>> Sarah : I would have definitely understood it, but

499
00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:16,070
I don't think I would have been.

500
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,104
Like I said before, all of the questions

501
00:24:20,222 --> 00:24:23,208
I had, I felt majority of them were answered in

502
00:24:23,214 --> 00:24:26,072
the second episode, so I wouldn't have been left. Like,

503
00:24:26,126 --> 00:24:29,064
oh, I'm really intrigued. I would have been

504
00:24:29,102 --> 00:24:31,304
like, okay, good story.

505
00:24:31,502 --> 00:24:34,284
>> Will: Yeah. And

506
00:24:34,402 --> 00:24:37,196
also just like, the assassin there at the know and the

507
00:24:37,218 --> 00:24:38,460
whole dynamic,

508
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,450
having that mystery there at the end, like, okay.

509
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:46,224
Especially given that we saw Yashibe having these

510
00:24:46,262 --> 00:24:48,832
conversations with know

511
00:24:48,886 --> 00:24:51,744
and setting up who was behind

512
00:24:51,862 --> 00:24:54,466
the. And, especially

513
00:24:54,568 --> 00:24:57,554
when at first, because of all the

514
00:24:57,592 --> 00:25:00,050
political dynamics going on with the impeachment,

515
00:25:00,790 --> 00:25:03,698
maybe folks think that this is just a way to

516
00:25:03,784 --> 00:25:06,726
take out Tornaga, but actually, the assassin was sent

517
00:25:06,748 --> 00:25:09,240
there to kill Blackthorn because of all the things that

518
00:25:10,490 --> 00:25:11,302
are going on.

519
00:25:11,356 --> 00:25:14,086
>> Sarah : With him, or the

520
00:25:14,108 --> 00:25:16,934
Portuguese. I knew it was them just because

521
00:25:17,132 --> 00:25:18,440
I think the.

522
00:25:19,710 --> 00:25:22,396
Well, first of all, I'm going to be

523
00:25:22,418 --> 00:25:25,372
honest, while watching it, I

524
00:25:25,506 --> 00:25:27,996
was very confused about

525
00:25:28,178 --> 00:25:30,430
where people were. So

526
00:25:32,020 --> 00:25:34,832
I will be honest. I never had the thought, like,

527
00:25:34,886 --> 00:25:36,960
oh, this assassin is going to go kill

528
00:25:37,030 --> 00:25:39,888
Torinaga. Never

529
00:25:39,974 --> 00:25:42,572
entered my mind. I was

530
00:25:42,646 --> 00:25:45,040
completely like, they're going to kill Blackthorn.

531
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,984
Because I feel as though how the episode

532
00:25:48,032 --> 00:25:50,390
was last.

533
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,780
I feel as though we had just maybe

534
00:25:53,850 --> 00:25:56,730
a scene one or two before that

535
00:25:57,100 --> 00:26:00,022
was, the priests who were

536
00:26:00,076 --> 00:26:02,758
talking about what a threat he is and talking

537
00:26:02,844 --> 00:26:05,350
specifically to one of the

538
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:08,442
three council or regents who

539
00:26:08,496 --> 00:26:11,098
are christian. And so

540
00:26:11,184 --> 00:26:14,060
that's where I was. And so

541
00:26:15,630 --> 00:26:18,346
when that happened, I wasn't really surprised. And

542
00:26:18,368 --> 00:26:21,210
then I was even more surprised when later

543
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,234
they said, oh, yeah, people thought that he was

544
00:26:24,272 --> 00:26:27,086
after the assassin and wanted to kill Toranaga, but

545
00:26:27,108 --> 00:26:30,094
Toranaga was a trickster. So he did this

546
00:26:30,132 --> 00:26:30,634
maneuver.

547
00:26:30,682 --> 00:26:33,040
>> Will: And I'm like, okay,

548
00:26:33,650 --> 00:26:36,350
yeah, sure.

549
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:39,326
Yeah, I get that. I think for me, it

550
00:26:39,348 --> 00:26:42,296
was just how it was set up. I

551
00:26:42,318 --> 00:26:45,176
just like the way it was sort of executed, because I

552
00:26:45,198 --> 00:26:47,816
remember, because you had Tornaga, like,

553
00:26:47,918 --> 00:26:50,892
setting up the guests, setting up the bed and making the things

554
00:26:50,946 --> 00:26:53,900
and stuff. So when the assassin came, I was like,

555
00:26:53,970 --> 00:26:56,856
oh, yeah, I see where they're going here. But it was

556
00:26:56,898 --> 00:26:59,536
still within the

557
00:26:59,558 --> 00:27:01,490
context of the story.

558
00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:05,974
it made a lot of sense. and I like the way that it

559
00:27:06,012 --> 00:27:08,640
sort of unfolded, given, like, as you noted,

560
00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:12,280
with the christian regents,

561
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,100
and their alliances with the Portuguese

562
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,696
and all. Yeah, it definitely flowed

563
00:27:19,728 --> 00:27:20,550
very well.

564
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,136
>> Sarah : Right. Especially because

565
00:27:24,238 --> 00:27:27,236
it's the perfect catalyst

566
00:27:27,348 --> 00:27:30,290
to, kick off the third episode.

567
00:27:30,370 --> 00:27:33,250
Tomorrow is tomorrow, where, after Blackthorn

568
00:27:33,330 --> 00:27:35,794
survives a brazen assassination attempt,

569
00:27:35,842 --> 00:27:38,826
Toronaga realizes he must ferry his allies out

570
00:27:38,848 --> 00:27:41,386
of Osaka or risk certain

571
00:27:41,488 --> 00:27:44,090
defeat. So they took

572
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,022
that, and then, which the whole

573
00:27:47,076 --> 00:27:49,422
premise of this episode is

574
00:27:49,476 --> 00:27:52,398
Torinaga maneuvering people

575
00:27:52,484 --> 00:27:55,262
again to not only get

576
00:27:55,316 --> 00:27:58,034
his allies out, but also him out of

577
00:27:58,072 --> 00:28:00,946
Osaka. and you know

578
00:28:00,968 --> 00:28:03,842
what? I

579
00:28:03,896 --> 00:28:06,850
think lord,

580
00:28:07,180 --> 00:28:09,996
Yabashuge is probably becoming my

581
00:28:10,018 --> 00:28:11,064
favorite character.

582
00:28:11,192 --> 00:28:11,870
>> Will: Same.

583
00:28:12,650 --> 00:28:15,526
>> Sarah : and I understand he boiled a man alive in the

584
00:28:15,548 --> 00:28:18,326
first episode. Yeah, that was first episode. We're in

585
00:28:18,348 --> 00:28:21,194
episode three where he's having

586
00:28:21,232 --> 00:28:23,930
a conversation with Toranaga,

587
00:28:25,070 --> 00:28:27,722
and there's something about

588
00:28:27,856 --> 00:28:30,726
him where the actor

589
00:28:30,758 --> 00:28:33,386
is doing a great job to. I

590
00:28:33,408 --> 00:28:35,600
wouldn't put him at the same

591
00:28:36,130 --> 00:28:39,082
table as Anthony Starr playing Homelander,

592
00:28:39,146 --> 00:28:42,000
but I can see he's having fun,

593
00:28:42,610 --> 00:28:45,406
and I can also feel as though

594
00:28:45,508 --> 00:28:47,380
his character is really

595
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:51,154
put in these situations that I think is

596
00:28:51,192 --> 00:28:52,690
the most entertaining.

597
00:28:55,910 --> 00:28:58,462
This episode and the next episode, I'm just

598
00:28:58,536 --> 00:29:01,238
like, where is my man?

599
00:29:01,404 --> 00:29:02,680
What is he doing?

600
00:29:04,730 --> 00:29:07,346
And he's honest in this conversation.

601
00:29:07,538 --> 00:29:09,400
He's actually not

602
00:29:09,770 --> 00:29:12,726
seeking Shogun status.

603
00:29:12,918 --> 00:29:15,450
He doesn't desire that. He just wants

604
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,234
more land. So, in a way, he wants more

605
00:29:18,272 --> 00:29:20,730
power, but he's not after the main

606
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,724
goal that, Ishido

607
00:29:23,852 --> 00:29:26,816
and Torinaga are after and fighting

608
00:29:26,848 --> 00:29:28,630
about right now with the.

609
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,188
So in that moment, I was like, okay,

610
00:29:33,354 --> 00:29:35,936
I get you. I understand you. And I also can

611
00:29:35,978 --> 00:29:38,810
appreciate he knows where he's strongest at.

612
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:42,072
and I think it's very

613
00:29:42,126 --> 00:29:44,904
clever for them in this moment for him to

614
00:29:44,942 --> 00:29:47,544
say, I don't have the power or the

615
00:29:47,582 --> 00:29:50,492
mind for that role. I'm not

616
00:29:50,546 --> 00:29:53,330
after being a bureaucrat or anything. He,

617
00:29:53,770 --> 00:29:56,230
does have all of this

618
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,708
history of being a great

619
00:29:58,794 --> 00:30:01,736
samurai and leading armies and

620
00:30:01,758 --> 00:30:04,552
all of that, which I think is very

621
00:30:04,606 --> 00:30:07,452
telling. there's a scene that happens in the next

622
00:30:07,506 --> 00:30:10,380
episode that we can circle back to,

623
00:30:10,530 --> 00:30:13,328
but I like this conversation, and I

624
00:30:13,334 --> 00:30:15,010
especially like it because

625
00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:22,032
it's so honest in this

626
00:30:22,086 --> 00:30:24,960
game of deception that people are playing,

627
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,230
where it's also like

628
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,692
they both know that each other are going to tell

629
00:30:32,746 --> 00:30:35,684
some lies and they're going to make

630
00:30:35,722 --> 00:30:38,230
this agreement, but at the end of the day,

631
00:30:38,540 --> 00:30:41,130
both of them are going to do whatever is

632
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:43,720
the most self pleasing.

633
00:30:45,420 --> 00:30:48,376
I feel like it's like honor among thieves. You know what I'm trying

634
00:30:48,398 --> 00:30:48,970
to.

635
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:54,448
>> Will: Mean? Ah, yeah. Because Tornaga asks Yashiba,

636
00:30:54,484 --> 00:30:56,056
aren't you my reliable.

637
00:30:56,248 --> 00:30:58,620
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. It's like, fleet.

638
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,768
So through the course of this,

639
00:31:06,854 --> 00:31:09,612
he managed to get Yabashuge

640
00:31:09,676 --> 00:31:12,096
to agree to

641
00:31:12,278 --> 00:31:14,480
lead his allies

642
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:17,780
out of Osaka,

643
00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:20,920
unbeknownst to him and a few other people,

644
00:31:22,970 --> 00:31:25,640
for anaga sneaks in there, too. And,

645
00:31:27,380 --> 00:31:30,176
it's very tense for a

646
00:31:30,198 --> 00:31:32,000
good portion of this episode.

647
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:34,418
but, what are some

648
00:31:34,504 --> 00:31:36,740
scenes that stuck out to you, will?

649
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:40,094
>> Will: Yeah. So, like you noted,

650
00:31:40,142 --> 00:31:42,470
the, scene between

651
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:45,174
Tornaga and Yashube definitely sticks

652
00:31:45,222 --> 00:31:48,106
out, because it really, as we just

653
00:31:48,128 --> 00:31:51,020
discussed, really gets into, like,

654
00:31:52,030 --> 00:31:54,958
the Toranaga is one of

655
00:31:54,964 --> 00:31:57,946
those. On the one hand, I'm like, it's okay, everybody else. Is he playing

656
00:31:57,978 --> 00:32:00,702
chess and everybody else playing checkers, or is he just really,

657
00:32:00,756 --> 00:32:02,560
like, super?

658
00:32:03,810 --> 00:32:06,510
He's just really good at just staying one step ahead of everyone

659
00:32:06,580 --> 00:32:09,566
else. And sometimes he's just playing out

660
00:32:09,588 --> 00:32:12,158
lucky. But the other thing that

661
00:32:12,244 --> 00:32:15,054
really makes his

662
00:32:15,092 --> 00:32:16,910
character, really

663
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,108
understand where he's coming from is when

664
00:32:20,194 --> 00:32:23,036
Marco tells Blackthorn the story about how when

665
00:32:23,058 --> 00:32:24,830
he was six years old,

666
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,980
his father, Tornaga's father,

667
00:32:31,910 --> 00:32:34,820
he was taken away and bartered,

668
00:32:35,124 --> 00:32:37,950
away to the family's rival. So

669
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,496
he learned that the thing they

670
00:32:42,518 --> 00:32:45,120
say in the episode is the enemies are everywhere and friends

671
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:47,170
nowhere. And so

672
00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:52,114
that's sort of the, ethos that's driving

673
00:32:52,162 --> 00:32:55,154
him and making these decisions and stuff. So whenever

674
00:32:55,202 --> 00:32:57,626
he does that with. When he has that makes that statement to

675
00:32:57,648 --> 00:32:58,650
Yeshuba,

676
00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:05,274
he's speaking from experience. As far as seeing how

677
00:33:05,312 --> 00:33:07,580
rivals play off of each other.

678
00:33:09,890 --> 00:33:12,846
That's something that really stands out to me. And also,

679
00:33:13,028 --> 00:33:15,886
he's trying to impart that same lesson to his son. But

680
00:33:15,908 --> 00:33:18,030
his son is playing these other games.

681
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,630
Nakato is,

682
00:33:21,150 --> 00:33:23,290
playing a game of friends and enemies

683
00:33:24,910 --> 00:33:27,338
and not choosing himself, which is something that

684
00:33:27,344 --> 00:33:30,326
Torananga learned very early in life. So

685
00:33:30,368 --> 00:33:32,910
that really does a great

686
00:33:32,980 --> 00:33:35,694
framing of where he's coming

687
00:33:35,732 --> 00:33:37,280
from and all these.

688
00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:42,364
>> Sarah : Definitely, Tori

689
00:33:42,412 --> 00:33:45,120
naga is right up there with,

690
00:33:45,540 --> 00:33:48,024
yeshubi, as my favorite

691
00:33:48,072 --> 00:33:51,044
character, just because he is

692
00:33:51,082 --> 00:33:53,892
so smart, and he's also

693
00:33:54,026 --> 00:33:57,012
not boastful about it.

694
00:33:57,066 --> 00:33:59,750
And he allows,

695
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:02,676
Mariko at one point to explain

696
00:34:02,858 --> 00:34:05,412
his plan, because he

697
00:34:05,466 --> 00:34:08,344
realizes that she's actually following and

698
00:34:08,382 --> 00:34:11,032
connecting the dots, more so than even his right

699
00:34:11,086 --> 00:34:13,464
hand man, her father in

700
00:34:13,502 --> 00:34:14,090
law,

701
00:34:16,690 --> 00:34:19,490
I don't know, he has this presence, about

702
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,450
him where actually, for the most part,

703
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,394
all of the regents doing a great job. I especially

704
00:34:25,512 --> 00:34:28,060
love in this episode when,

705
00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:30,464
Torinaga reveals himself, and

706
00:34:30,502 --> 00:34:33,044
then, the men that they were

707
00:34:33,082 --> 00:34:35,744
protecting. And in the distance,

708
00:34:35,872 --> 00:34:38,460
you see the onlookers who,

709
00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:41,090
are basically pro

710
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,024
portuguese. them looking

711
00:34:44,062 --> 00:34:46,270
down and like they're fighting each other.

712
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,350
Yeah. Thank you.

713
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,144
This is what we're talking about, because it's not

714
00:34:54,262 --> 00:34:56,672
one war, it's a

715
00:34:56,726 --> 00:34:59,552
multitude of wars. And I think that was

716
00:34:59,606 --> 00:35:01,330
really telling in that moment.

717
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,510
we also continue.

718
00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:08,960
We meet and see a lot

719
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:11,620
more up until the end of,

720
00:35:12,060 --> 00:35:13,880
Marico's husband,

721
00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:17,160
Buntaro, that's his nickname,

722
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:20,814
and who ends up self

723
00:35:20,872 --> 00:35:23,706
sacrificing? well, we don't know

724
00:35:23,728 --> 00:35:26,682
if he's dead, because he's dead. He didn't show

725
00:35:26,736 --> 00:35:28,246
it, but, yeah, he's dead.

726
00:35:28,278 --> 00:35:29,130
>> Will: He's dead.

727
00:35:31,410 --> 00:35:32,160
>> Sarah : Yeah.

728
00:35:36,370 --> 00:35:39,226
>> Will: It will be a dishonor if he got captured

729
00:35:39,418 --> 00:35:41,070
in the samurai culture.

730
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:44,530
>> Sarah : Right. But he also didn't kill himself.

731
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:47,426
>> Will: Yeah, well, apparently that was a switch from the books because

732
00:35:47,448 --> 00:35:49,502
apparently he does commit

733
00:35:49,566 --> 00:35:51,970
CBK on the dock,

734
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:57,218
whenever Toronaga and everybody was able to get to the

735
00:35:57,224 --> 00:35:59,850
galley, off the.

736
00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:05,256
>> Sarah : So anyway, so will's going to

737
00:36:05,278 --> 00:36:07,160
proclaim he's dead. He's,

738
00:36:08,170 --> 00:36:10,696
Which frees up Marico. Just

739
00:36:10,766 --> 00:36:11,386
saying.

740
00:36:11,756 --> 00:36:14,456
>> Will: Yeah. but that was another interesting

741
00:36:14,526 --> 00:36:17,512
scene for me, too, just the look, because there were two

742
00:36:17,534 --> 00:36:20,392
things. One, the Toronaga

743
00:36:20,424 --> 00:36:23,414
calling him by his given name. one, just to

744
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,070
give him that honor, but two, also

745
00:36:26,268 --> 00:36:28,456
the look that she has

746
00:36:29,226 --> 00:36:32,090
to him. One, it was a conflicted look, the way I read

747
00:36:32,128 --> 00:36:34,842
it, because, as you noted, we

748
00:36:34,864 --> 00:36:37,802
haven't seen much of him, but we saw

749
00:36:37,824 --> 00:36:40,746
more of him this episode than we have in the past.

750
00:36:40,896 --> 00:36:42,816
But whenever we do see him,

751
00:36:45,186 --> 00:36:47,856
he's a very domineering, very,

752
00:36:48,166 --> 00:36:51,122
brutal kind of dude with their

753
00:36:51,144 --> 00:36:54,082
son. He's always very rough with him as far

754
00:36:54,104 --> 00:36:56,982
as discipline and talking to him and

755
00:36:57,004 --> 00:36:59,176
stuff. So on the one hand, she's like,

756
00:37:00,186 --> 00:37:02,696
he's gone, but on the other hand, she's like,

757
00:37:03,146 --> 00:37:04,776
I'm free now.

758
00:37:06,926 --> 00:37:09,336
I felt there was a very conflicted, emotions

759
00:37:11,676 --> 00:37:13,332
whenever he was killed.

760
00:37:13,524 --> 00:37:16,408
>> Sarah : Yeah, I agree

761
00:37:16,462 --> 00:37:17,226
with that.

762
00:37:22,016 --> 00:37:23,036
Agreed.

763
00:37:25,506 --> 00:37:27,326
>> Sarah : So now they're on the boats,

764
00:37:28,546 --> 00:37:30,526
but they're on a small boat.

765
00:37:30,886 --> 00:37:33,796
And, simultaneously, because there

766
00:37:33,866 --> 00:37:36,612
always has to be a c and a

767
00:37:36,634 --> 00:37:39,126
d storyline in the show going on.

768
00:37:39,726 --> 00:37:42,694
we talk about the black ship, which is a

769
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:45,198
portuguese trade vessel that

770
00:37:45,252 --> 00:37:47,486
Tornaga actually denies

771
00:37:48,546 --> 00:37:51,212
its, rights to leave. But the ship

772
00:37:51,244 --> 00:37:52,896
caption says, fu.

773
00:37:54,836 --> 00:37:57,696
I, ah, have a different master to serve,

774
00:37:57,856 --> 00:38:00,406
and I'm going to go if I want to.

775
00:38:00,766 --> 00:38:03,630
and that just so happens to be leaving at the

776
00:38:03,668 --> 00:38:06,414
exact same time that

777
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:09,408
all of, Toranaga and his allies are making

778
00:38:09,462 --> 00:38:11,888
their way and they realize that

779
00:38:11,942 --> 00:38:14,912
they're surrounded by some

780
00:38:15,014 --> 00:38:17,266
fishing boats. And

781
00:38:17,796 --> 00:38:20,576
anyway, this leads to Toranaga

782
00:38:21,636 --> 00:38:24,452
making a deal to get in on the

783
00:38:24,474 --> 00:38:27,220
black ship so that they

784
00:38:27,258 --> 00:38:29,894
can get through, and out of

785
00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:30,456
the.

786
00:38:32,426 --> 00:38:35,402
And. And then it ultimately leads to a

787
00:38:35,424 --> 00:38:38,410
boat race because the deal, go figure,

788
00:38:38,528 --> 00:38:41,356
is that Blackthorn must stay behind.

789
00:38:42,926 --> 00:38:45,156
And, Blackthorn knows,

790
00:38:47,226 --> 00:38:49,942
how to, I don't know,

791
00:38:50,044 --> 00:38:52,056
steer a boat. Is that.

792
00:38:53,946 --> 00:38:56,376
Yeah, he's piling in the boat. Okay,

793
00:38:56,906 --> 00:38:59,510
I guess I get confused because there's no

794
00:38:59,548 --> 00:39:02,118
wheel, the lever

795
00:39:02,182 --> 00:39:02,746
thing.

796
00:39:02,896 --> 00:39:05,626
>> Will: Just a lever thing. Very phallic, especially given

797
00:39:05,696 --> 00:39:08,518
he and Rodriguez

798
00:39:08,582 --> 00:39:11,550
is like, insults back and forth to one another. It was definitely

799
00:39:11,668 --> 00:39:14,096
know mine's bigger than yours going on there.

800
00:39:16,606 --> 00:39:19,530
>> Sarah : but at the end of the day, Rodriguez has

801
00:39:19,568 --> 00:39:22,190
a debt to Blackthorn. And

802
00:39:22,228 --> 00:39:24,842
so instead of crashing

803
00:39:24,954 --> 00:39:27,882
his boat up against the rocks, he lets

804
00:39:27,914 --> 00:39:30,702
him pass, and both ships manage to

805
00:39:30,724 --> 00:39:31,696
break free.

806
00:39:35,766 --> 00:39:38,690
They are on their way. And the last bit of this

807
00:39:38,728 --> 00:39:41,582
episode was blackthorn teaching,

808
00:39:41,606 --> 00:39:44,548
Tornaga how to dive, and then

809
00:39:44,602 --> 00:39:47,176
them ultimately swimming to the coast.

810
00:39:51,116 --> 00:39:51,866
>> Will: Yeah.

811
00:39:52,826 --> 00:39:55,798
another thing, too, before we move on to the next

812
00:39:55,852 --> 00:39:58,222
episode, is, a very important thing I think

813
00:39:58,244 --> 00:40:00,682
is notable in this episode

814
00:40:00,794 --> 00:40:03,516
is the fact that Toronago,

815
00:40:04,144 --> 00:40:05,926
resigns from the,

816
00:40:08,836 --> 00:40:11,792
You know, because, again, the

817
00:40:11,814 --> 00:40:14,660
way that, like, set things up,

818
00:40:14,698 --> 00:40:17,572
five regents had to agree to

819
00:40:17,594 --> 00:40:20,512
rule things, so you can't

820
00:40:20,544 --> 00:40:23,444
impeach the guy if he's not on the council, but then at the same time, they can't

821
00:40:23,460 --> 00:40:26,420
govern the things because there's not five regents.

822
00:40:26,468 --> 00:40:28,186
So again, he's just,

823
00:40:30,686 --> 00:40:33,642
playing the big game. And then also, as you

824
00:40:33,664 --> 00:40:36,408
know, with the boat, with Blackthorn being

825
00:40:36,462 --> 00:40:39,400
left behind. One thing I also liked about

826
00:40:39,438 --> 00:40:42,008
it is just when you thought that they were

827
00:40:42,142 --> 00:40:45,140
building an ally and building an alliance,

828
00:40:45,188 --> 00:40:48,152
again, what

829
00:40:48,174 --> 00:40:50,312
I stated earlier about

830
00:40:50,494 --> 00:40:53,308
what Tornago learned early in life,

831
00:40:53,442 --> 00:40:56,412
he doesn't have. You may be

832
00:40:56,434 --> 00:40:59,232
an ally now, but

833
00:40:59,254 --> 00:41:02,172
you also could be a pawn if it helps

834
00:41:02,204 --> 00:41:05,026
me move things

835
00:41:05,476 --> 00:41:08,240
to my advantage. Everybody is

836
00:41:08,278 --> 00:41:10,466
expendable. So

837
00:41:11,416 --> 00:41:14,002
that's another thing that, was just

838
00:41:14,024 --> 00:41:15,876
reinforced in this episode as.

839
00:41:18,246 --> 00:41:19,746
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

840
00:41:20,666 --> 00:41:23,514
All right, and that leads us to episode four,

841
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,926
the Eightfold Fence. Blackthorn

842
00:41:26,006 --> 00:41:28,650
America test their new alliance as they

843
00:41:28,688 --> 00:41:31,590
train Toranaga's gun regimen

844
00:41:31,638 --> 00:41:34,470
for war. Yaboshige, must

845
00:41:34,508 --> 00:41:37,142
navigate his past promises to

846
00:41:37,244 --> 00:41:40,102
Ishido when an old friend comes to the

847
00:41:40,124 --> 00:41:42,736
village. so

848
00:41:42,886 --> 00:41:45,488
I love how it took a good 20

849
00:41:45,542 --> 00:41:48,416
minutes for us to realize that the island

850
00:41:48,496 --> 00:41:50,406
that they just

851
00:41:51,016 --> 00:41:53,636
arrived at is the same island that

852
00:41:53,706 --> 00:41:55,716
we met Blackthorn,

853
00:41:56,296 --> 00:41:58,736
Yabu Boucher, and,

854
00:41:58,686 --> 00:42:00,876
others in the first episode.

855
00:42:01,456 --> 00:42:04,108
We come full circle with this

856
00:42:04,162 --> 00:42:07,102
island. and so I really got

857
00:42:07,124 --> 00:42:08,336
a kick out of that.

858
00:42:08,946 --> 00:42:11,490
>> Will: Yeah, everything comes back. Yeah,

859
00:42:11,528 --> 00:42:14,162
because you're right. We're back to where we

860
00:42:14,184 --> 00:42:14,756
started.

861
00:42:17,506 --> 00:42:20,416
>> Sarah : well, we are back to where we started, but

862
00:42:21,026 --> 00:42:24,018
things are different because what

863
00:42:24,072 --> 00:42:27,042
I also forgot to mention that happens at the very end of the

864
00:42:27,064 --> 00:42:29,156
last episode is that,

865
00:42:29,976 --> 00:42:32,852
through this adventure or

866
00:42:32,954 --> 00:42:35,860
them getting out, Lord Tornaga

867
00:42:35,908 --> 00:42:38,312
decides to give Blackthorn a

868
00:42:38,334 --> 00:42:39,016
title.

869
00:42:41,276 --> 00:42:41,592
>> Will: The.

870
00:42:41,614 --> 00:42:44,346
>> Sarah : Hatamoto title, which is very,

871
00:42:47,546 --> 00:42:50,246
he's returning to this village

872
00:42:50,746 --> 00:42:53,622
where he was the prisoner, but now he's a

873
00:42:53,644 --> 00:42:56,246
title, but he's still a prisoner.

874
00:42:56,586 --> 00:42:57,336
>> Will: Yeah.

875
00:42:59,326 --> 00:43:01,836
>> Sarah : He's still just a pawn in the game.

876
00:43:03,526 --> 00:43:06,488
and, something else about

877
00:43:06,542 --> 00:43:09,128
their arrival and what I was

878
00:43:09,262 --> 00:43:11,822
hinting at, I, think in the

879
00:43:12,020 --> 00:43:14,922
episode two discussion, or at the beginning

880
00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:17,488
of episode three was,

881
00:43:18,108 --> 00:43:20,600
that we

882
00:43:20,654 --> 00:43:23,198
see them greeted and

883
00:43:23,568 --> 00:43:25,468
yabu bushke,

884
00:43:26,368 --> 00:43:28,392
now I'm just making it sound russian.

885
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:29,868
Yabubushke,

886
00:43:32,548 --> 00:43:35,478
he, greets his army,

887
00:43:35,818 --> 00:43:38,662
and they are all yelling his name. And

888
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:41,574
then he tells Tornaga, too.

889
00:43:41,756 --> 00:43:44,614
And over the course of him doing that, you can

890
00:43:44,636 --> 00:43:47,514
see the look on his face where suddenly he's like, this is

891
00:43:47,536 --> 00:43:50,394
what I wanted. But, whoa, they're doing this a

892
00:43:50,416 --> 00:43:51,628
bit too much.

893
00:43:53,918 --> 00:43:56,906
>> Will: Yeah. Especially, like, with the whole, that was funny. I'm

894
00:43:56,912 --> 00:43:59,706
glad you brought that up. Because whenever they were getting the

895
00:43:59,712 --> 00:44:02,698
village, all the area cleaned up because

896
00:44:02,768 --> 00:44:05,374
tornado is coming and we got

897
00:44:05,396 --> 00:44:08,366
to put on our best. And then when all

898
00:44:08,372 --> 00:44:10,848
that goes down, because,

899
00:44:11,628 --> 00:44:14,472
I think it was his wife or maybe Omi's wife or

900
00:44:14,510 --> 00:44:17,144
mother, somebody was like, got to get out the best saki.

901
00:44:17,176 --> 00:44:20,124
Right? And then after, like you

902
00:44:20,146 --> 00:44:23,022
said, after that went on, a little bit too long, as far

903
00:44:23,044 --> 00:44:25,874
as giving Torinaga praise, they're like, we shouldn't have kept giving the

904
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:26,756
cheap stuff.

905
00:44:27,206 --> 00:44:29,618
>> Sarah : Yeah. Especially because the man just

906
00:44:29,672 --> 00:44:32,078
disappears. Like, he floats

907
00:44:32,142 --> 00:44:34,962
away. Where did he

908
00:44:34,984 --> 00:44:35,410
go?

909
00:44:35,528 --> 00:44:36,766
>> Will: He went to Edo.

910
00:44:36,926 --> 00:44:38,356
>> Sarah : Okay. He went to.

911
00:44:40,886 --> 00:44:43,782
>> Will: So, yeah, he went

912
00:44:43,804 --> 00:44:45,896
to Edo to plan. To plan.

913
00:44:46,826 --> 00:44:49,722
>> Sarah : This is probably, I'm going to say right now,

914
00:44:49,824 --> 00:44:52,636
my least favorite episode I've watched so far.

915
00:44:53,416 --> 00:44:56,244
because after this good

916
00:44:56,410 --> 00:44:58,086
2015 minutes,

917
00:45:01,116 --> 00:45:02,624
it, becomes very typical.

918
00:45:04,804 --> 00:45:07,680
I don't know, a lot of the

919
00:45:07,702 --> 00:45:10,434
stuff. It's not that it rubbed me the wrong way.

920
00:45:10,804 --> 00:45:13,796
I was just like, oh, we're just doing

921
00:45:13,850 --> 00:45:16,708
basic storytelling now. Okay. Now that the

922
00:45:16,746 --> 00:45:19,334
mastermind isn't around,

923
00:45:20,184 --> 00:45:23,076
suddenly these characters are very not as

924
00:45:23,130 --> 00:45:25,620
interesting as I would want them to be.

925
00:45:25,722 --> 00:45:28,680
And, yeah, I

926
00:45:28,702 --> 00:45:29,514
don't know.

927
00:45:33,554 --> 00:45:36,478
I will admit I checked out a good

928
00:45:36,596 --> 00:45:39,442
ten to 15 minutes before the episode was over.

929
00:45:39,528 --> 00:45:42,004
I mean, I came back to watch people get,

930
00:45:46,924 --> 00:45:47,928
>> Will: Finer point on it.

931
00:45:47,966 --> 00:45:50,840
So was all the things going on with the

932
00:45:50,862 --> 00:45:53,224
romance budding romance story between

933
00:45:53,294 --> 00:45:56,268
Blackthorn and Marco and of course,

934
00:45:56,306 --> 00:45:59,128
the whole things with Fuji,

935
00:45:59,176 --> 00:46:01,084
as far as her being his consort,

936
00:46:01,924 --> 00:46:04,448
was it sort of the white saber trope thing that was,

937
00:46:04,486 --> 00:46:07,440
like, felt? I guess the

938
00:46:07,462 --> 00:46:09,554
romance story was just sort of,

939
00:46:11,594 --> 00:46:13,878
not telegraphed but not as

940
00:46:13,916 --> 00:46:16,438
compelling, I would say.

941
00:46:16,476 --> 00:46:18,166
>> Sarah : It's definitely telegraphed.

942
00:46:18,310 --> 00:46:18,762
>> Will: Yeah.

943
00:46:18,848 --> 00:46:21,338
>> Sarah : I knew it from the very beginning that those two get

944
00:46:21,376 --> 00:46:24,202
together. I didn't need anybody

945
00:46:24,288 --> 00:46:26,990
to have read the book and tell me that those two. And I'm like,

946
00:46:27,012 --> 00:46:29,982
okay. I actually

947
00:46:30,068 --> 00:46:32,808
did appreciate the, bringing

948
00:46:32,856 --> 00:46:35,134
Fugi in, because, a.

949
00:46:35,824 --> 00:46:38,174
I'm glad they answered my question.

950
00:46:39,204 --> 00:46:41,936
Why do we care about this baby and

951
00:46:42,070 --> 00:46:44,876
this dad dying in the first episode?

952
00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:46,834
But now to understand

953
00:46:48,244 --> 00:46:50,754
her character and

954
00:46:51,224 --> 00:46:54,068
the importance of her later? And plus, she had,

955
00:46:54,106 --> 00:46:56,900
arguably, one of the better moments in this episode with the

956
00:46:56,922 --> 00:46:59,094
revolver. So the

957
00:47:00,824 --> 00:47:03,252
I. But it was

958
00:47:03,338 --> 00:47:05,992
mainly just the stuff

959
00:47:06,078 --> 00:47:08,184
with Marico and

960
00:47:08,254 --> 00:47:11,122
Blackthorn. I don't like.

961
00:47:11,208 --> 00:47:13,922
They're both separately really good.

962
00:47:14,088 --> 00:47:17,030
And there are moments, brief moments, where I

963
00:47:17,052 --> 00:47:19,878
find their conversations to be really interesting, but

964
00:47:19,916 --> 00:47:22,678
then they continue talking,

965
00:47:22,796 --> 00:47:24,664
and I'm like, I'm so.

966
00:47:27,754 --> 00:47:28,358
So.

967
00:47:28,476 --> 00:47:31,218
This episode is called the Eightfold

968
00:47:31,266 --> 00:47:33,902
fence. M and miracle

969
00:47:33,938 --> 00:47:36,604
explains what the Eightfold fence is.

970
00:47:37,854 --> 00:47:40,204
And I'm just thinking, in my mind,

971
00:47:41,394 --> 00:47:44,330
that sounded way more fascinating

972
00:47:44,442 --> 00:47:47,230
in the trailers than what

973
00:47:47,252 --> 00:47:49,264
is being explained right now.

974
00:47:50,114 --> 00:47:52,926
And it reminded me of what is

975
00:47:52,980 --> 00:47:55,614
said at the very end of the first episode

976
00:47:55,694 --> 00:47:57,794
about how you have three hearts.

977
00:47:59,654 --> 00:48:01,844
And at the moment, I was like,

978
00:48:02,454 --> 00:48:04,354
that sounds so cliche.

979
00:48:05,734 --> 00:48:08,678
I don't know. I think you're right that

980
00:48:08,716 --> 00:48:10,984
there's an aspect that is more

981
00:48:11,594 --> 00:48:14,344
seen in this episode specifically, because

982
00:48:14,714 --> 00:48:17,410
after three episodes, we're

983
00:48:17,442 --> 00:48:20,090
now really getting a heavy, black,

984
00:48:20,192 --> 00:48:23,146
thorn focused episode where

985
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,090
I am like, I have seen a lot of movies and

986
00:48:26,112 --> 00:48:28,918
a lot of TV shows where they've

987
00:48:28,966 --> 00:48:31,844
done this. granted, a lot worse,

988
00:48:33,704 --> 00:48:36,436
but I've seen this story, and

989
00:48:36,490 --> 00:48:39,376
it's so cliche that suddenly

990
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,320
the interest that I had in that first episode

991
00:48:42,432 --> 00:48:45,288
is drastically depleting because

992
00:48:45,326 --> 00:48:48,312
they also took away one of the more interesting

993
00:48:48,398 --> 00:48:50,954
characters. Bring Toranaga back.

994
00:48:53,324 --> 00:48:56,036
>> Will: Yeah, but the shadow of Toranaga was

995
00:48:56,190 --> 00:48:58,860
well over this episode, especially with the son

996
00:48:58,962 --> 00:49:01,500
and Omnib, especially whenever they were having that

997
00:49:01,522 --> 00:49:03,424
conversation, where,

998
00:49:04,044 --> 00:49:05,464
Omni was playing,

999
00:49:07,324 --> 00:49:10,108
it was one of those things on the official podcast. They

1000
00:49:10,146 --> 00:49:12,444
were talking about that particular

1001
00:49:12,514 --> 00:49:15,148
scene as far as,

1002
00:49:15,186 --> 00:49:15,774
like,

1003
00:49:17,184 --> 00:49:19,628
Omi and

1004
00:49:19,746 --> 00:49:22,736
Shido, and a lot of these characters are not high

1005
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:25,154
born, whereas Nagato is.

1006
00:49:26,564 --> 00:49:28,514
And the lessons that,

1007
00:49:29,404 --> 00:49:31,514
Tornago was trying to teach his son,

1008
00:49:33,504 --> 00:49:35,164
he didn't get, whereas

1009
00:49:37,744 --> 00:49:40,300
Shubay's nephew did understand some of this

1010
00:49:40,322 --> 00:49:43,260
stuff, how

1011
00:49:43,282 --> 00:49:46,214
to keep your, enemies,

1012
00:49:46,294 --> 00:49:49,130
your friends close, your enemies closer, or. I think that's how

1013
00:49:49,152 --> 00:49:52,122
the thing goes. But he

1014
00:49:52,128 --> 00:49:54,890
was figuring all those things out as far as how to build

1015
00:49:54,912 --> 00:49:57,854
these alliances

1016
00:49:58,194 --> 00:50:01,150
and not playing friends and allies and

1017
00:50:01,172 --> 00:50:02,064
that kind of.

1018
00:50:05,074 --> 00:50:07,734
So I get m what you're saying about the,

1019
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,010
Blackthorn and, Marco's thing,

1020
00:50:11,032 --> 00:50:13,730
and I agree, it

1021
00:50:13,752 --> 00:50:16,638
was probably the least compelling

1022
00:50:16,686 --> 00:50:19,538
aspect of the episode for me, but there was still a lot of things going

1023
00:50:19,576 --> 00:50:22,436
on in between there. that definitely

1024
00:50:22,490 --> 00:50:25,400
kept me impact. I mean, for me so far, the third episode, definitely for

1025
00:50:25,422 --> 00:50:28,328
me, is the stand up. But this

1026
00:50:28,366 --> 00:50:30,876
one, it had a lot of things going forward,

1027
00:50:30,930 --> 00:50:33,930
especially, whenever they were out

1028
00:50:33,952 --> 00:50:34,764
to training,

1029
00:50:36,814 --> 00:50:39,706
I did like, speaking of Blackthorn and Marco,

1030
00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:42,654
I like how she called bullshit whenever he was trying to

1031
00:50:42,804 --> 00:50:44,224
relate a story of

1032
00:50:47,394 --> 00:50:50,210
those, like you were saying there was those elements like that where

1033
00:50:50,232 --> 00:50:53,088
those things did stand out. but

1034
00:50:53,126 --> 00:50:55,808
also how he responded, like, look, I'm a navy guy.

1035
00:50:56,006 --> 00:50:58,676
He told him before, I'm not an infantry guy.

1036
00:50:58,810 --> 00:51:00,084
I'm a seamen.

1037
00:51:02,664 --> 00:51:04,934
>> Sarah : So I have a question for you, because,

1038
00:51:06,264 --> 00:51:08,836
I was watching the episode, but I

1039
00:51:08,890 --> 00:51:11,656
also was

1040
00:51:11,710 --> 00:51:14,374
checking out here and there. so

1041
00:51:15,144 --> 00:51:17,748
I understood the

1042
00:51:17,946 --> 00:51:20,054
predicament that

1043
00:51:20,504 --> 00:51:23,236
Yaboshigo gay is

1044
00:51:23,290 --> 00:51:25,890
in, in this circumstance of where

1045
00:51:25,912 --> 00:51:28,374
Ashido's men have arrived

1046
00:51:28,954 --> 00:51:31,894
and now want him to go back to Ahsoka.

1047
00:51:32,994 --> 00:51:35,762
granted, probably for his death, because

1048
00:51:35,848 --> 00:51:38,382
he betrayed Ishido.

1049
00:51:38,558 --> 00:51:41,124
So I understand that. But

1050
00:51:41,494 --> 00:51:44,386
what I don't understand is

1051
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,694
why his nephew,

1052
00:51:47,194 --> 00:51:50,066
I don't understand his nephew's plan. So his nephew

1053
00:51:50,130 --> 00:51:52,344
essentially gets,

1054
00:51:53,134 --> 00:51:56,118
brainwashes or just plants

1055
00:51:56,166 --> 00:51:58,262
a little seed in

1056
00:51:58,368 --> 00:52:00,878
Tornaga's son's head

1057
00:52:00,996 --> 00:52:03,838
that, he should fight this

1058
00:52:03,876 --> 00:52:06,668
battle. because Ishido's men

1059
00:52:06,786 --> 00:52:09,272
are, they're the enemy,

1060
00:52:09,448 --> 00:52:12,288
and you have to make a

1061
00:52:12,326 --> 00:52:15,324
stand so people will start recognizing

1062
00:52:15,404 --> 00:52:18,016
you instead of you as your

1063
00:52:18,070 --> 00:52:20,034
father's son or whatever.

1064
00:52:20,914 --> 00:52:23,518
and so that leads

1065
00:52:23,566 --> 00:52:25,204
to him

1066
00:52:26,294 --> 00:52:28,404
essentially declaring war

1067
00:52:28,934 --> 00:52:31,684
on Ishido by blowing up

1068
00:52:32,614 --> 00:52:35,070
his infantry. So.

1069
00:52:35,192 --> 00:52:37,144
But how does that help

1070
00:52:37,514 --> 00:52:40,470
Yaboshiga ger in

1071
00:52:40,492 --> 00:52:41,064
the.

1072
00:52:41,994 --> 00:52:43,464
>> Will: So, well, it

1073
00:52:45,434 --> 00:52:46,584
you, as, you

1074
00:52:48,874 --> 00:52:49,978
know, basically when

1075
00:52:50,016 --> 00:52:51,914
Joseph's,

1076
00:52:53,534 --> 00:52:55,804
number one shows up,

1077
00:52:56,734 --> 00:52:59,724
because they hear the cannons going off and stuff,

1078
00:53:01,694 --> 00:53:04,490
and of course, Torinaga leaving Osaka

1079
00:53:04,522 --> 00:53:05,584
castle without.

1080
00:53:10,514 --> 00:53:12,802
When Joseph and

1081
00:53:12,968 --> 00:53:15,628
Yabashuge, whenever he was, like,

1082
00:53:15,666 --> 00:53:18,540
bragging about, look, we've learned these new tactics that are going to help us

1083
00:53:18,562 --> 00:53:21,308
against the. Help us in our

1084
00:53:21,346 --> 00:53:24,170
fights and stuff, Joseph was

1085
00:53:24,192 --> 00:53:26,810
like, all right, yeah, I'm sure I'm going to be

1086
00:53:26,832 --> 00:53:29,530
surprised. Yeah, right. He was

1087
00:53:29,552 --> 00:53:31,324
very dismissive of,

1088
00:53:33,774 --> 00:53:36,510
help. It doesn't help Yamashige at

1089
00:53:36,532 --> 00:53:38,784
all at the end of the day.

1090
00:53:41,074 --> 00:53:44,020
But I will say, Omni's been

1091
00:53:44,042 --> 00:53:46,864
playing this game from the moment, from the first episode,

1092
00:53:46,944 --> 00:53:49,710
really, when they first

1093
00:53:49,732 --> 00:53:51,664
discovered the Erasmus and the men,

1094
00:53:52,994 --> 00:53:55,870
as you said earlier in the episode, Yabashuge would just be

1095
00:53:55,892 --> 00:53:58,734
happy just expanding his fiefdom. His nephew has

1096
00:53:58,804 --> 00:54:00,022
larger ambitions.

1097
00:54:00,138 --> 00:54:02,978
>> Sarah : But what is that larger ambition? Like, what does this

1098
00:54:03,016 --> 00:54:04,434
even get Omni?

1099
00:54:08,134 --> 00:54:10,658
>> Will: I think he wants to

1100
00:54:10,696 --> 00:54:13,692
have, a

1101
00:54:13,698 --> 00:54:15,964
seat on the council, ultimately.

1102
00:54:16,464 --> 00:54:18,734
>> Sarah : But how does that get him there?

1103
00:54:19,514 --> 00:54:21,584
>> Will: I think that's something that we'll have to sort of,

1104
00:54:26,374 --> 00:54:29,204
I guess, building an alliance with Toranaga's son.

1105
00:54:30,754 --> 00:54:33,390
>> Sarah : it doesn't seem like an alliance, because

1106
00:54:33,492 --> 00:54:35,824
actually, I don't know.

1107
00:54:37,334 --> 00:54:39,844
I'm glad to hear that.

1108
00:54:41,174 --> 00:54:43,586
It sounds as though I didn't miss

1109
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:44,194
something.

1110
00:54:44,344 --> 00:54:45,086
>> Will: No, you didn't.

1111
00:54:45,150 --> 00:54:47,524
>> Sarah : The way people are talking about this,

1112
00:54:48,074 --> 00:54:50,998
I was very confused, because to me,

1113
00:54:51,036 --> 00:54:53,958
I'm just like, I don't understand the

1114
00:54:53,996 --> 00:54:56,868
strategy here. and so that's

1115
00:54:56,916 --> 00:54:59,588
why I can't necessarily say that

1116
00:54:59,726 --> 00:55:02,334
he's a very strategic thinker, because

1117
00:55:02,944 --> 00:55:05,516
I understand that he wants power,

1118
00:55:05,650 --> 00:55:08,428
unlike his uncle, but

1119
00:55:08,626 --> 00:55:11,256
I'm still not shown

1120
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,268
exactly what tactics he's

1121
00:55:14,316 --> 00:55:17,220
using to get it. I just basically

1122
00:55:17,402 --> 00:55:20,400
seen manipulation of a character,

1123
00:55:20,432 --> 00:55:21,556
but I don't know why.

1124
00:55:21,690 --> 00:55:24,004
>> Will: Yeah, well, remember, I think it's the ambition.

1125
00:55:24,664 --> 00:55:27,540
One of the things. As I was looking back to my

1126
00:55:27,562 --> 00:55:30,034
notes here, I made a note that, whereas,

1127
00:55:32,404 --> 00:55:35,360
Nagato didn't get what Tornago was trying to

1128
00:55:35,382 --> 00:55:38,272
tell him, Tornaga didn't get what Nagato was

1129
00:55:38,278 --> 00:55:41,028
trying to tell Tornaga, which, at the beginning of this

1130
00:55:41,066 --> 00:55:43,988
episode, he did say an ally with ambition is.

1131
00:55:44,026 --> 00:55:44,614
No.

1132
00:55:48,204 --> 00:55:50,776
Yes. So I think even

1133
00:55:50,830 --> 00:55:53,608
though Yabashuge and Ami are acting like

1134
00:55:53,646 --> 00:55:55,354
we're all friends here and

1135
00:55:57,004 --> 00:55:58,874
think, you know, by

1136
00:55:59,244 --> 00:56:02,140
pushing Nagato to

1137
00:56:02,322 --> 00:56:04,574
do this rash act to

1138
00:56:05,824 --> 00:56:08,734
set things in motion for war,

1139
00:56:09,274 --> 00:56:12,050
which at the end of the day, I guess he's hoping

1140
00:56:12,082 --> 00:56:14,710
that these various rival

1141
00:56:14,822 --> 00:56:17,702
factions take each other out and that there'd

1142
00:56:17,718 --> 00:56:20,650
be a vacuum where he can sweep right in

1143
00:56:20,672 --> 00:56:21,484
and become

1144
00:56:22,974 --> 00:56:24,634
either. Phil.

1145
00:56:26,574 --> 00:56:29,278
>> Sarah : I think we're missing it. It just dawned on

1146
00:56:29,316 --> 00:56:32,190
me, it's not so that they take each other out, it's that they

1147
00:56:32,212 --> 00:56:34,750
actually do end up taking out their uncle. His

1148
00:56:34,772 --> 00:56:37,678
uncle. He wants his

1149
00:56:37,716 --> 00:56:39,954
uncle to die

1150
00:56:40,534 --> 00:56:42,590
so that he gets to be the lord.

1151
00:56:42,702 --> 00:56:43,714
>> Will: Yeah, that's.

1152
00:56:46,134 --> 00:56:48,542
>> Sarah : Mean. Granted, I could argue,

1153
00:56:48,638 --> 00:56:51,514
well, if he returned to Osaka,

1154
00:56:51,614 --> 00:56:53,864
that would have happened, too, but whatever.

1155
00:56:55,274 --> 00:56:57,668
>> Will: Yeah. But then he would be

1156
00:56:57,706 --> 00:56:58,934
dishonored, because

1157
00:57:00,504 --> 00:57:01,668
it was very.

1158
00:57:01,866 --> 00:57:04,708
>> Sarah : See, that makes sense. That makes sense now that

1159
00:57:04,746 --> 00:57:07,640
you bring up the dishonoring fact of it, because it

1160
00:57:07,662 --> 00:57:10,456
would be the whole family. Okay, we're getting

1161
00:57:10,510 --> 00:57:11,834
somewhere with this.

1162
00:57:12,444 --> 00:57:15,284
One thing, though, I want to point out,

1163
00:57:15,454 --> 00:57:18,108
that is kind of an inconsistency with this

1164
00:57:18,146 --> 00:57:20,434
nephew character is that,

1165
00:57:22,644 --> 00:57:25,548
yabushiga, in the very first episode,

1166
00:57:25,676 --> 00:57:27,876
had to explain to his

1167
00:57:27,930 --> 00:57:30,374
nephew why

1168
00:57:31,144 --> 00:57:33,844
he wanted to keep hold of

1169
00:57:33,914 --> 00:57:36,774
the ship and the barbarian so much.

1170
00:57:37,114 --> 00:57:39,908
M so I

1171
00:57:39,946 --> 00:57:42,568
keep thinking about this while we're having this

1172
00:57:42,606 --> 00:57:45,272
conversation, and for someone

1173
00:57:45,358 --> 00:57:47,864
who, in later, two episodes later,

1174
00:57:47,934 --> 00:57:50,820
explains that he doesn't understand the politics and doesn't

1175
00:57:50,852 --> 00:57:53,812
have the head, in that first episode, we're introduced

1176
00:57:53,828 --> 00:57:55,724
to him, and he seems very smart.

1177
00:57:57,104 --> 00:57:59,980
And now later in the

1178
00:58:00,002 --> 00:58:02,988
fourth episode, I'm supposed to believe that his son. No,

1179
00:58:03,026 --> 00:58:04,044
his nephew,

1180
00:58:05,824 --> 00:58:08,494
is even more strategic than he is.

1181
00:58:09,264 --> 00:58:11,996
I don't know. I think you're right,

1182
00:58:12,050 --> 00:58:14,588
though. But it's more about the ambition, not about the

1183
00:58:14,626 --> 00:58:15,656
strategy.

1184
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,694
>> Will: Yeah, it's definitely not about strategic, for sure.

1185
00:58:18,984 --> 00:58:21,560
it's the ambition. but the siege or

1186
00:58:21,582 --> 00:58:24,056
planet. I remember way back in that very first

1187
00:58:24,110 --> 00:58:26,856
episode, whenever they found the ship, as I mentioned

1188
00:58:26,910 --> 00:58:28,474
earlier, that

1189
00:58:29,504 --> 00:58:32,428
Omi was already thinking, like, how can I use

1190
00:58:32,466 --> 00:58:33,884
this to my advantage?

1191
00:58:34,774 --> 00:58:36,644
Yabashuge is just

1192
00:58:37,574 --> 00:58:40,530
like, let me stick up the wind and see

1193
00:58:40,552 --> 00:58:43,474
which way the things are going, and I will do what I need to do

1194
00:58:43,544 --> 00:58:44,164
to.

1195
00:58:47,894 --> 00:58:50,838
But I think as a death wish, too, though, because he was like, remember, he was making

1196
00:58:50,876 --> 00:58:53,384
out his. I don't know if it's a death wish or something, but

1197
00:58:54,494 --> 00:58:57,114
I think he's just trying to stay alive,

1198
00:58:57,324 --> 00:58:58,830
or completely.

1199
00:58:58,932 --> 00:59:01,726
>> Sarah : It's self preservation, because the thing

1200
00:59:01,780 --> 00:59:04,238
he was good at, he can no longer

1201
00:59:04,436 --> 00:59:07,122
do, essentially, because

1202
00:59:07,288 --> 00:59:10,098
he's a soldier who doesn't have a

1203
00:59:10,136 --> 00:59:13,010
war, and, well, now he has a war. But

1204
00:59:13,192 --> 00:59:16,018
I understand what you're saying, and I

1205
00:59:16,056 --> 00:59:18,470
agree that to an extent, the

1206
00:59:18,492 --> 00:59:21,158
ambition in his

1207
00:59:21,196 --> 00:59:24,098
nephew, in Omni, was like, that seed

1208
00:59:24,146 --> 00:59:27,110
was planted in that first episode. But I still am going to

1209
00:59:27,132 --> 00:59:29,670
argue that it was

1210
00:59:29,772 --> 00:59:32,298
Yabashuge, his uncle, who

1211
00:59:32,336 --> 00:59:35,290
explains to him, like, beat for

1212
00:59:35,312 --> 00:59:37,578
beat, why it is so

1213
00:59:37,616 --> 00:59:39,404
critical that

1214
00:59:40,494 --> 00:59:43,210
they retain, a

1215
00:59:43,232 --> 00:59:45,786
hold of the ship in the barbarian

1216
00:59:45,930 --> 00:59:48,446
because of this internal fighting between

1217
00:59:48,500 --> 00:59:51,326
Toranaga and Ishido. And then right in that

1218
00:59:51,380 --> 00:59:54,318
split second, we have Toranaga's right

1219
00:59:54,356 --> 00:59:57,198
hand man arrive and say, oh, you didn't

1220
00:59:57,246 --> 00:59:59,970
realize that we knew. Which

1221
01:00:00,152 --> 01:00:02,658
I did make a note, and

1222
01:00:02,856 --> 01:00:05,826
I have a feeling it was actually Omni who

1223
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,114
sold out the fact that

1224
01:00:08,184 --> 01:00:11,068
Blackthorn, and the ship had

1225
01:00:11,106 --> 01:00:12,734
arrived at the.

1226
01:00:14,304 --> 01:00:16,834
I. Now, if that's true,

1227
01:00:17,764 --> 01:00:20,594
I might take back a little bit of what I'm saying,

1228
01:00:21,144 --> 01:00:23,392
because that is very strategic,

1229
01:00:23,568 --> 01:00:26,228
because he's playing a different game.

1230
01:00:26,346 --> 01:00:29,328
Than everybody else. just because of every

1231
01:00:29,366 --> 01:00:31,832
time it's mentioned, there's a look on his face where I'm

1232
01:00:31,868 --> 01:00:33,908
like, you know something?

1233
01:00:34,106 --> 01:00:34,854
>> Will: Yeah,

1234
01:00:38,504 --> 01:00:41,300
he very well could be the spy. The other

1235
01:00:41,322 --> 01:00:44,116
person I thought might have been a spy is there's been like this common

1236
01:00:44,170 --> 01:00:46,632
guy, this commoner who

1237
01:00:46,798 --> 01:00:49,594
always just sort of shows up

1238
01:00:50,684 --> 01:00:53,530
because he showed up again in this episode, in the

1239
01:00:53,552 --> 01:00:54,254
village.

1240
01:00:58,044 --> 01:01:00,876
I don't know if he's just the common guy that just

1241
01:01:00,930 --> 01:01:03,356
happens to be at the right place at the right

1242
01:01:03,410 --> 01:01:06,396
time, or if he is the rat who

1243
01:01:06,450 --> 01:01:09,232
is like, feeding information back to the

1244
01:01:09,238 --> 01:01:09,824
folks.

1245
01:01:12,884 --> 01:01:15,616
we'll see what happens there. But you're right.

1246
01:01:15,750 --> 01:01:18,530
It would not surprise me, though, if, omni was the

1247
01:01:18,552 --> 01:01:20,998
person who was like his uncle, playing both

1248
01:01:21,036 --> 01:01:21,734
sides.

1249
01:01:22,314 --> 01:01:23,064
>> Sarah : Yeah.

1250
01:01:25,224 --> 01:01:27,888
the last bit, that I want to talk

1251
01:01:27,926 --> 01:01:30,536
about is, for as much

1252
01:01:30,590 --> 01:01:33,076
shit as I give all of black Florida

1253
01:01:33,140 --> 01:01:36,076
Marico scene in this episode, I did

1254
01:01:36,130 --> 01:01:39,048
appreciate the conversation where Marico brings

1255
01:01:39,096 --> 01:01:41,782
up, the fact that they have earthquakes,

1256
01:01:41,878 --> 01:01:44,858
tsunami. Death is in Japan's air, water and

1257
01:01:44,896 --> 01:01:46,444
land. And

1258
01:01:48,274 --> 01:01:51,150
we live, we die, and we

1259
01:01:51,172 --> 01:01:54,046
can control nothing beyond that. And I think

1260
01:01:54,180 --> 01:01:56,754
I really appreciate that

1261
01:01:56,904 --> 01:01:59,694
because that brings

1262
01:01:59,774 --> 01:02:02,526
so much understanding

1263
01:02:02,590 --> 01:02:05,346
for me, in terms

1264
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,258
of why there is such a

1265
01:02:08,296 --> 01:02:11,224
practice of choosing to kill yourself

1266
01:02:12,074 --> 01:02:14,546
when you don't foresee another action.

1267
01:02:14,610 --> 01:02:17,506
Because you have these other forces

1268
01:02:17,570 --> 01:02:19,784
at play that

1269
01:02:20,234 --> 01:02:22,826
are threatening to take that one

1270
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:24,284
choice from you.

1271
01:02:26,014 --> 01:02:28,364
And I really like how it was just

1272
01:02:28,814 --> 01:02:31,164
they didn't over explain it.

1273
01:02:32,014 --> 01:02:34,830
It was a perfect metaphor. And there was a lot

1274
01:02:34,852 --> 01:02:37,844
of scenes, in previous episodes

1275
01:02:38,984 --> 01:02:41,812
that allowed you to make that connection as a

1276
01:02:41,818 --> 01:02:44,744
viewer. So I do applaud,

1277
01:02:44,694 --> 01:02:47,538
how that scene was written. Or maybe not

1278
01:02:47,576 --> 01:02:50,004
that scene, but just like that one part.

1279
01:02:50,614 --> 01:02:52,244
>> Will: Yeah, no, I agree.

1280
01:02:53,984 --> 01:02:55,514
you're right. It did,

1281
01:02:56,764 --> 01:02:59,244
in a very good way of exposition,

1282
01:02:59,664 --> 01:03:02,380
give context to all of this, what's going

1283
01:03:02,402 --> 01:03:05,214
on. And also really is a good.

1284
01:03:06,704 --> 01:03:09,340
Especially when you consider how the end of the

1285
01:03:09,362 --> 01:03:12,060
episode happened with the brutality

1286
01:03:12,172 --> 01:03:15,136
of the cannons being unleashed and everybody

1287
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:17,696
getting disemboweled and bowling to pieces and stuff. Why

1288
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:20,354
they have really

1289
01:03:20,964 --> 01:03:23,908
have kept the peace and trying to do their

1290
01:03:23,946 --> 01:03:26,054
best not to go to war. Because,

1291
01:03:27,294 --> 01:03:29,898
just a waste that it would

1292
01:03:29,936 --> 01:03:32,704
cause. these,

1293
01:03:34,734 --> 01:03:37,114
was. I'm glad you brought that scene

1294
01:03:38,334 --> 01:03:39,084
other.

1295
01:03:39,454 --> 01:03:41,512
Since we're talking about, Marco and

1296
01:03:41,582 --> 01:03:44,536
Blackthorn, the scene, that thing

1297
01:03:44,574 --> 01:03:47,422
that sticks out to me especially just as we move forward,

1298
01:03:49,502 --> 01:03:52,282
after they do hook up. Well, after

1299
01:03:52,352 --> 01:03:54,762
the gift was given of the courtesy,

1300
01:03:55,262 --> 01:03:58,078
whether or not it was her or not. I like the way

1301
01:03:58,100 --> 01:04:00,686
that how they played it off that next

1302
01:04:00,724 --> 01:04:03,678
morning, where she basically

1303
01:04:03,780 --> 01:04:06,590
set up a situation, talking about it in front of

1304
01:04:06,596 --> 01:04:08,826
Fiji, where they have complete plausible

1305
01:04:08,874 --> 01:04:09,902
deniability

1306
01:04:11,682 --> 01:04:14,110
with what happened that night before

1307
01:04:14,276 --> 01:04:16,752
then. I'm pretty sure they.

1308
01:04:19,442 --> 01:04:22,032
>> Sarah : That was. That was. Was.

1309
01:04:23,242 --> 01:04:26,086
I just feel like it's all

1310
01:04:26,124 --> 01:04:28,964
too soon. It's all too soon. it's all too

1311
01:04:29,018 --> 01:04:30,212
telegraphed.

1312
01:04:31,272 --> 01:04:34,176
>> Will: Well, I only have ten episodes, so there's no second season,

1313
01:04:34,224 --> 01:04:35,962
so they got to get it in.

1314
01:04:37,852 --> 01:04:40,248
>> Sarah : I don't care how it's written in the

1315
01:04:40,270 --> 01:04:43,160
books. I don't care. You make people

1316
01:04:43,246 --> 01:04:44,202
earn it.

1317
01:04:46,652 --> 01:04:49,416
Good romance. Sometimes all you need is a kiss,

1318
01:04:49,464 --> 01:04:52,396
too. You don't have to actually watch them.

1319
01:04:52,434 --> 01:04:55,148
Fuck. No. Come on, it's got to

1320
01:04:55,170 --> 01:04:57,784
be well earned. I, don't

1321
01:04:57,816 --> 01:04:59,038
know. Anyway,

1322
01:05:00,628 --> 01:05:03,280
they have it, but then he

1323
01:05:03,334 --> 01:05:04,048
dies.

1324
01:05:04,628 --> 01:05:05,184
>> Will: Yeah.

1325
01:05:05,286 --> 01:05:08,032
>> Sarah : And again, I'm someone who's obsessed with the show one

1326
01:05:08,070 --> 01:05:08,658
day.

1327
01:05:09,668 --> 01:05:12,596
>> Will: Exactly. No, I just like the

1328
01:05:12,602 --> 01:05:15,332
plausible deniability there because especially to your point about

1329
01:05:15,370 --> 01:05:17,638
it being so soon, like,

1330
01:05:18,008 --> 01:05:20,772
lady, your husband just got

1331
01:05:20,810 --> 01:05:23,478
killed last night. What's going on?

1332
01:05:24,728 --> 01:05:25,478
>> Sarah : Yeah.

1333
01:05:25,548 --> 01:05:28,150
>> Will: well, maybe longer, but that was.

1334
01:05:28,304 --> 01:05:29,626
>> Sarah : Because it was winter.

1335
01:05:29,722 --> 01:05:30,718
>> Will: It was winter.

1336
01:05:33,138 --> 01:05:35,982
>> Sarah : I think that that's a few days journey at

1337
01:05:36,020 --> 01:05:38,754
least. But granted, within the same week, you

1338
01:05:38,856 --> 01:05:41,518
lose your husband and then fuck the barbarian.

1339
01:05:41,598 --> 01:05:44,454
Really? but I

1340
01:05:44,476 --> 01:05:47,302
get it. She probably hasn't had sex with her

1341
01:05:47,340 --> 01:05:50,262
husband in about how old is

1342
01:05:50,300 --> 01:05:51,126
her son?

1343
01:05:51,292 --> 01:05:52,774
>> Will: He looks at being a teenager.

1344
01:05:52,886 --> 01:05:55,770
>> Sarah : Yeah, that was probably the last

1345
01:05:55,824 --> 01:05:57,254
time they had sex.

1346
01:05:57,446 --> 01:06:00,362
>> Will: Yeah. But to that point about the whole

1347
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,290
consort and stuff, too, I like the way. I'm glad they did.

1348
01:06:03,344 --> 01:06:06,182
Explain to

1349
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,878
the thing about being too soon and stuff. It's like, it makes total

1350
01:06:08,948 --> 01:06:11,742
sense why Fiji was like,

1351
01:06:11,780 --> 01:06:14,332
okay, I'll be, at your console for six months, just so we can

1352
01:06:14,370 --> 01:06:17,312
honor you being a moto. And you got to follow the

1353
01:06:17,350 --> 01:06:20,192
traditions. I did like

1354
01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:21,298
the fact that,

1355
01:06:23,668 --> 01:06:26,604
as we were just discussing earlier, whenever she had those pivotal

1356
01:06:26,636 --> 01:06:29,442
scenes there with, the

1357
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,328
men and the pistols and later,

1358
01:06:32,548 --> 01:06:35,544
dinner and all that kind of stuff, as far as him eating, learning more

1359
01:06:35,566 --> 01:06:38,458
traditions, learning how to speak Japanese and that kind of stuff,

1360
01:06:39,728 --> 01:06:42,572
they reached an understanding. And so she did

1361
01:06:42,610 --> 01:06:45,516
give her father's old swords to him so he can

1362
01:06:45,522 --> 01:06:48,344
be official. after he gifted

1363
01:06:48,376 --> 01:06:50,828
her, after the muskets at the pistol,

1364
01:06:51,888 --> 01:06:53,298
those were like the little

1365
01:06:54,708 --> 01:06:57,232
things that they do in the story that I

1366
01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:59,298
appreciate as far as just really

1367
01:07:00,628 --> 01:07:03,608
with the culture and some of those beats like that.

1368
01:07:04,488 --> 01:07:06,932
this really makes this, to me, adds a

1369
01:07:07,050 --> 01:07:09,876
depth to this authenticity that

1370
01:07:09,962 --> 01:07:12,788
this show really conveys throughout.

1371
01:07:14,248 --> 01:07:17,112
>> Sarah : Yeah, I'm still on board with

1372
01:07:17,150 --> 01:07:20,104
Shogun. I just have to be

1373
01:07:20,126 --> 01:07:22,904
honest. This episode, it felt more like

1374
01:07:23,086 --> 01:07:25,448
a step back for me, just

1375
01:07:25,518 --> 01:07:28,220
because it makes

1376
01:07:28,274 --> 01:07:30,892
me start to read into things a bit

1377
01:07:30,930 --> 01:07:31,518
more.

1378
01:07:34,368 --> 01:07:37,228
And when you have time to do that, because

1379
01:07:37,298 --> 01:07:39,438
the story is kind of just

1380
01:07:40,148 --> 01:07:43,020
becoming too stereotypical,

1381
01:07:43,084 --> 01:07:44,258
you're like, okay,

1382
01:07:45,668 --> 01:07:48,560
but I'm still interested to see where this

1383
01:07:48,614 --> 01:07:51,440
goes. However, I'm kind of

1384
01:07:51,494 --> 01:07:54,358
also starting to have some,

1385
01:07:54,918 --> 01:07:57,108
I guess, reverences or

1386
01:07:58,838 --> 01:08:01,086
I'm starting to act very cautious,

1387
01:08:01,182 --> 01:08:03,762
because if this episode is a

1388
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,758
sign of what's to come, I'm like, okay,

1389
01:08:06,908 --> 01:08:08,728
I've seen this before.

1390
01:08:10,227 --> 01:08:12,897
but it doesn't take just having

1391
01:08:13,587 --> 01:08:16,219
a lot of stories have been told,

1392
01:08:16,373 --> 01:08:19,171
and then you just watch something and it's basically the same

1393
01:08:19,209 --> 01:08:21,987
thing. It's just with different characters in different setting.

1394
01:08:23,447 --> 01:08:25,877
So I'm not taking away from,

1395
01:08:26,587 --> 01:08:29,499
the cinematography is great, the

1396
01:08:29,553 --> 01:08:30,267
writing,

1397
01:08:32,287 --> 01:08:35,241
I think, it's

1398
01:08:35,289 --> 01:08:38,127
not as strong right now for me.

1399
01:08:38,267 --> 01:08:40,339
but it could pick up again in later

1400
01:08:40,413 --> 01:08:43,173
episodes, with the return of Toranaga.

1401
01:08:43,301 --> 01:08:44,459
Just going to say,

1402
01:08:47,309 --> 01:08:49,881
the acting, for the most part, pretty

1403
01:08:49,935 --> 01:08:52,639
good. I

1404
01:08:52,649 --> 01:08:55,335
haven't been too mad at any of the

1405
01:08:55,357 --> 01:08:58,255
performances given. and I just remembered

1406
01:08:58,287 --> 01:09:01,151
Rodriguez. Like, we got him for one episode,

1407
01:09:01,295 --> 01:09:04,263
another episode, and then he

1408
01:09:04,301 --> 01:09:06,009
was also missing from this.

1409
01:09:07,339 --> 01:09:08,195
Missing.

1410
01:09:08,307 --> 01:09:10,887
>> Will: Missing Rodriguez will

1411
01:09:10,893 --> 01:09:11,449
be.

1412
01:09:14,619 --> 01:09:17,235
I mean, I think the shadow of tornalga

1413
01:09:17,267 --> 01:09:19,015
definitely, was.

1414
01:09:19,057 --> 01:09:20,907
>> Sarah : You can say that, but I missed.

1415
01:09:21,003 --> 01:09:23,649
>> Will: So, yeah, it was there. But I agree,

1416
01:09:23,719 --> 01:09:26,545
Matt. Whenever he

1417
01:09:26,567 --> 01:09:29,421
is on screen and an active

1418
01:09:29,485 --> 01:09:32,005
role, the episodes do

1419
01:09:32,027 --> 01:09:34,849
take another level. I would agree,

1420
01:09:34,799 --> 01:09:37,571
because as soon as. Yeah, I mean, I felt the same way with this

1421
01:09:37,625 --> 01:09:40,423
episode where once he left off to go to Edo, I was

1422
01:09:40,461 --> 01:09:42,649
like, we're getting it back, right?

1423
01:09:46,289 --> 01:09:49,171
>> Sarah : All right, well, on that note, will, why don't you tell our listeners

1424
01:09:49,235 --> 01:09:50,503
where they can find you?

1425
01:09:50,621 --> 01:09:53,443
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formerly

1426
01:09:53,491 --> 01:09:54,859
known as Twitter, at ah, Will. Mpolk

1427
01:09:54,859 --> 01:09:57,959
mwillmpolk.

1428
01:09:58,109 --> 01:10:01,047
>> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at SJ Belmont. S j b E

1429
01:10:01,053 --> 01:10:03,747
l m m o n t please follow our crew on Twitter at Scene N

1430
01:10:03,763 --> 01:10:06,543
nerdfund us on. On Instagram and threads at

1431
01:10:06,581 --> 01:10:09,455
scene underscore n underscore nerd. And visit our

1432
01:10:09,477 --> 01:10:12,383
website, ww sceneanderdpodcast.com.

1433
01:10:12,421 --> 01:10:15,035
But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple

1434
01:10:15,067 --> 01:10:17,995
podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1435
01:10:18,027 --> 01:10:19,069
Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.