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Shogun's Battle for Power Intensifies and Invincible Returns | Scene N Nerd
Shogun's Battle for Power Intensifies and Invincible Return…
Welcome back to Scene N’ Nerd, where pop culture and entertainment collide! In this episode, our dynamic duo dives deep into the heart of I…
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Welcome back to Scene N’ Nerd, where pop culture and entertainment collide! In this episode, our dynamic duo dives deep into the heart of Invincible Season 2 and continues the epic saga of Shogun.  First up, our SNN Producer, Will Polk, breaks...

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Scene N Nerd Podcast

Welcome back to Scene N’ Nerd, where pop culture and entertainment collide! In this episode, our dynamic duo dives deep into the heart of Invincible Season 2 and continues the epic saga of Shogun. 

First up, our SNN Producer, Will Polk, breaks down the latest trailers for 'The Acolyte' and 'House of Dragon.' Get ready for an insider's look at what these trailers reveal about the upcoming series and why every fan should be on the edge of their seat. He also gives details on the upcoming entry in the Spiderverse: The Spider Within.

Then, our SNN Host, Sarah Belmont, takes on the challenge of unraveling the stories of Shogun and Invincible. With her keen insights, Sarah attempts to make sense of the intricate narratives and what they mean for our beloved characters.

But that's not all - we've got rants, we've got raves, and we've got reviews. From the highs to the lows, we're covering it all. Whether you're a long-time fan or just getting started, this episode of Scene N’ Nerd is your go-to source for all things entertainment. 🎙️🎉

Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe for more episodes. Your support helps us keep the conversation going. So, grab your popcorn, settle in, and let's get nerdy! 🍿🎮

Timestamps

0:00 Welcome and banter

1:10 Dueling House of The Dragon Trailers for Season 2? Are you on Team Green or Team Black?

7:35 Star Wars: The Acolyte poster and trailer reaction. Is this more of the same?

14:25 "The Spider Within: A Spiderverse Story" premieres on YouTube on March 26 and we share details about the plot.

17:00 Invincible S2 E5 “This Must Come as a Shock”

30:35 Shogun S1 E5 “Broken to the Fist"

1:04:20 Outro

Follow our crew on Twitter @SceneNNerd, friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and Threads @scene_n_nerd, and our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com.  But most importantly rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts!

References

House of Dragon

https://www.hbo.com/house-of-the-dragon

Game of Thrones

https://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones

Star Wars: The Acolyte

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12262202/

Spiderverse

https://www.sonypictures.com/movies/spidermanintothespiderverse

Kevin Love Foundation

https://kevinlovefund.org/

Sony Animation

https://www.sonypicturesanimation.com/

Invincible

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6741278/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_inv

Shogun

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078588/

Transcript
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>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with

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me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, will Polk. How are you doing tonight,

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will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, sir. How you doing this evening?

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>> Sarah : Well, you've already managed to surprise me,

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because during pre show talk, when we

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normally do not talk about what we're

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going to talk about, you spilled some

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tea, and so now I'm just

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interesting.

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>> Will: Yeah, but I could have been doing a headfake,

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too.

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>> Sarah : I think I've talked to you long enough

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to know when you're pulling a head fake,

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there's some tells. I

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hear your voice on a regular basis.

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>> Will: True.

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>> Sarah : Yeah.

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>> Will: After seven years of doing this, we kind of know. Yeah. There

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are some things where if we were to play a game

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of poker, it would be hard to bluff one another,

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right?

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>> Sarah : Definitely. talking about

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bluffing and playing poker, House of

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Dragon dropped a trailer.

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Actually, it was two, because there

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was the green side trailer and the black side

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trailer, which wasn't. Nobody was expecting

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that, right? Everyone kept saying, the

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trailer is coming. So when I looked, I'm like, oh,

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there's two of them. now,

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I appreciate that. However,

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I think the tagline

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all must choose is stupid, and

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here's why. Who the heck is on Team

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Green? a

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fan that watched the first season

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that is legitimately on

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Team Green. And yes, I get it. We

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got some incest happening on team

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black.

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M, if you're on Team Green,

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then I need to understand

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you. And in my opinion, that means you did not

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like viserys at all. And if that is

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the case, then why are you watching the show?

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>> Will: Amen. Yeah, seriously,

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though, if anybody is on Team Green,

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please, on our socials, if you listen

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to us on YouTube, drop a comment.

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yeah, make the case for Team Green, because

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to your point about the trailers,

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just brilliant marketing. Just

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effing brilliant. As far as just.

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Even though I agree with you, the tagline

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is a little like, okay, we

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got hyping it up. It was smart.

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They dropped the posters and stuff yesterday

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and, sort of set the stage. I know

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we had the little teaser trailer back late last

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year, but,

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the two trailers, and we got the release

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date too, which is June 16.

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>> Will: And so it really

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set, really, as I was watching the trailers again the night before we

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were recording, it really just like, oh, yeah.

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It just does a great job of just

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framing the conflict between

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the two and, like, the team green trailer, just remembering

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how, speaking of Viserys and

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Alicent, like, hearing what she wanted to hear

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whatever he said, aegon.

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And then of course, on the team black, just,

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Renera and

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Damon.

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I can't wait for June. This is one of those

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series I didn't watch, Game of Thrones. So I was

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new to the universe and the franchise and

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I'm 100% on board with this show.

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I don't think it's going to disappoint at all.

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>> Sarah : So I'm going to be honest. Besides

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my thoughts about the, tagline

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being a bit lame,

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honestly, I watched both of them.

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I didn't like it. I

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felt like they told me,

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and I get it. They're trying to attract viewers who may not have

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watched the first season. Okay, whatever.

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But to me, I

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appreciate the first season trailers a lot more. There

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was just something about it where it felt,

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I don't know, there was not enough

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tension for me. And, there

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was a lot more fights and a lot more

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action sequences. And then

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when, team

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green, we get a few clips from

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them talking about

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Alison's point of view and everything, I'm just

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like, Olivia cook, where are you? You did great in

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season

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hitting. This isn't hitting the way I want it.

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So I'm still obsessed with this

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show. Don't get me wrong,

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I didn't need to watch the trailers to want to

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see the second season.

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by all means. But honestly,

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when I compare it to other trailers of things,

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I was a bit disappointed.

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>> Will: I can see your point. And I think

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maybe it's, where we're coming

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from, as far as you're

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been in this longer than I have, as far as Game of

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Thrones stuff,

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I'm not saying that, to mean that you're like, having

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the carryover effect that many fans had, the way that

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that series ended. No

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more of, I just know you

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as far as how you react to things in trailers and stuff.

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To me, it just sounds like this just reinforces

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things that you already know.

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>> Sarah : right.

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I guess where I can

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really articulate that, where my disappointment

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stems from is there was no

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scene or no part of either

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trailer where I was like, oh,

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I can't wait to see that. I can't wait to understand

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the context of this because I'm just like, okay, but at

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the same time, will,

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all I can hope for is that means they're holding things

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back.

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>> Will: Yeah, exactly.

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>> Sarah : Beggars can't be choosers.

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I'm fine. As long as

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they held back the right things, I am perfectly

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fine.

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I think I just want to make sure from my

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perspective, there's nothing wrong. For me saying, like,

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this trailer disappointed me. It has nothing to do with the show

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itself.

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>> Will: Right?

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>> Sarah : It's advertisement for that show, but

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I'm not going to hold it against it because I'm not going to

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watch these trailers,

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between now and when I actually sit down to watch the show.

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So I'm not going to hold on to like, oh, they showed

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that in the trailer? No.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : speaking about

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mixed review trailers, we got

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a few of them this week, but, Star wars

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acolyte trailer came out, and before it came

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out, it also dropped the

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poster. Now, will,

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please explain to me how can the

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poster be so much cooler

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than the trailer?

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Did the person who designed the

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poster watch the trailer?

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>> Will: I don't think so.

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>> Will: Like House of the Dragon, this is one of those trailers. I

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knew the show. We finally did get confirmation

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that. As far as the release date, I think

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prior to the trailer and the poster, which is June

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4, I mean, we knew it was coming in June, but I think,

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anyway, when I saw that

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poster and the lightsaber smeared with

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blood, I was just like, all what

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they've been saying about this show going in a different

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direction. We're going back to the high Republic. It is

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set 100 years before. Phantom. Ah, menace.

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It was supposed to be a thriller mystery,

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darker take on things.

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That poster, I was like, oh,

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yeah, it got me hyped. When I saw

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the trailer, it was okay, but

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I just felt like it was like, I don't

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know, I felt like

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it was just,

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a remix of what I've seen before.

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Especially when I watched it again tonight, before

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I had the initial reaction, I was like, okay, this is

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cool. But watching it again,

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and I was really watching it from a

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critical eye. I was like, this just feels

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like just a rehash of stuff that we've seen before.

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Yes, there's a Sith. Yes, it's the

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high Republic. They're new people. But

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it just like, I feel like I'm in the

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Skywalker saga again.

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>> Sarah : Oh, right. It's because,

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what Star wars has been doing with their

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universe is they've been,

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instead of

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chronological order, there's like,

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different points of time and things are

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separated, and yet they even play

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into this idea. Oh.

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So during this time,

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the Sith were in charge. During this time, it was the

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Jedi. And then here's the story of how it

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flipped. And here's the story how it flipped back and

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back, and you're just like, I don't care if this is a

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hundred years before.

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You're telling me

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the same story

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essentially. Now,

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they could have done it a lot

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more. They could have been more creative with it

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because from m, I

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also understood this almost to be like

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the origin story of the dark side and

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really where it came from and how it

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disrupted everything and caused this

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battle that has now gone on for

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years.

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>> Sarah : But they didn't sell it that way. They sold

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it more as like, okay,

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it just feels like more of the same.

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And yes, I always argue

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Star wars. For whatever reason, I've been

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in fatigue mode for a while now with their,

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am.

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The one thing that got me though, is

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the main actress in it. I want to

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say her name is Amanda something.

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she's a pretty good actress. I've seen her in a

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few things. So I'm, I'm

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curious to see her. And I'm especially

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now that it's like she's going to be the

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dark side person. I was

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like, oh, that's interesting. But you didn't really

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hear her say anything,

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00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:27,256
which is, again, more of the same.

237
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I'm so tired of

238
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the dark side being so quiet

239
00:11:35,508 --> 00:11:38,392
and I'm just like, no, you need more

240
00:11:38,446 --> 00:11:39,320
talkers.

241
00:11:39,740 --> 00:11:42,664
>> Will: More talkers. Like Carrie m

242
00:11:42,702 --> 00:11:43,850
all showing up.

243
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,510
I couldn't help but thinking of

244
00:11:52,020 --> 00:11:54,608
mean, it didn't do anything. It was just like, she's playing the same type of

245
00:11:54,614 --> 00:11:56,210
character and it's just

246
00:11:57,220 --> 00:11:59,250
know, go against type,

247
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,630
or something. But

248
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,310
the fights seem very

249
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,636
still what we saw in

250
00:12:08,658 --> 00:12:11,440
Ahsoka when they had a lot of those dark scenes,

251
00:12:12,010 --> 00:12:14,710
where those lightsaber battles were underwhelming

252
00:12:15,050 --> 00:12:18,020
in many cases. and also we learned a

253
00:12:18,030 --> 00:12:20,604
runtime for these shows and it's eight

254
00:12:20,642 --> 00:12:23,276
episodes, 35

255
00:12:23,378 --> 00:12:25,070
minutes. So

256
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,504
if you're going to do it that short because we've seen

257
00:12:29,542 --> 00:12:32,210
enough of the Star wars shows now to,

258
00:12:34,070 --> 00:12:36,930
yeah, they just make a movie

259
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:38,500
at this point.

260
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>> Sarah : I think this show is going to get very similar

261
00:12:42,492 --> 00:12:44,680
criticism that Ahsoka got.

262
00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:47,456
>> Sarah : Especially now that I understand the

263
00:12:47,478 --> 00:12:49,730
runtimes are pretty much the same.

264
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>> Will: I think there's one, I think the

265
00:12:55,658 --> 00:12:58,452
showrunner said, she said maybe went 40,

266
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35, 40 minutes. But that's just

267
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when a

268
00:13:04,138 --> 00:13:07,016
short runtime like that. But when things really

269
00:13:07,038 --> 00:13:09,130
are just really getting going in a story,

270
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it faced the black and I'm just like, it just

271
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makes it really hard.

272
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When I saw the poster, I was super hyped

273
00:13:19,122 --> 00:13:21,702
because I was like, oh, something fresh, something

274
00:13:21,756 --> 00:13:24,534
new, post trailer. I'm kind of

275
00:13:24,572 --> 00:13:27,220
on the fence. just going to hold judgment

276
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and see where it goes,

277
00:13:30,620 --> 00:13:32,090
I'll judge it.

278
00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:36,744
At least I didn't see a bunch of sand about

279
00:13:36,782 --> 00:13:37,370
you.

280
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>> Sarah : It's interesting, as we talk about

281
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,740
a universe that seems to just be

282
00:13:45,810 --> 00:13:48,766
on a downward trend, and can't figure out a

283
00:13:48,788 --> 00:13:51,646
way to reinvent itself. We're going to switch over and

284
00:13:51,668 --> 00:13:54,322
talk about the spiderverse, which

285
00:13:54,376 --> 00:13:57,052
continues to expand, and

286
00:13:57,186 --> 00:14:00,076
viewers have yet to get tired of, well, it's been

287
00:14:00,098 --> 00:14:03,084
announced that the spiderverse animated short called

288
00:14:03,122 --> 00:14:06,076
the spider within. A spider within is set

289
00:14:06,098 --> 00:14:08,412
to debut on YouTube on March

290
00:14:08,476 --> 00:14:11,136
26. The short will focus on miles having a

291
00:14:11,158 --> 00:14:13,552
panic attack while dealing with pressures of being a

292
00:14:13,606 --> 00:14:16,524
teenager student and protecting the city. The

293
00:14:16,582 --> 00:14:19,524
short shares how Miles reaches out to get

294
00:14:19,562 --> 00:14:21,750
help for his mental health.

295
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:25,660
>> Will: yeah, I saw this today.

296
00:14:27,050 --> 00:14:29,510
the spider within a spiderverse stories

297
00:14:29,850 --> 00:14:32,732
the title and it's a project that

298
00:14:32,770 --> 00:14:35,250
actually, the Kevin Love

299
00:14:35,304 --> 00:14:38,298
foundation, fund is partnering,

300
00:14:38,946 --> 00:14:41,854
with Sony to do this. And

301
00:14:41,956 --> 00:14:44,234
Kevin love, for folks who follow NBA

302
00:14:44,266 --> 00:14:47,184
basketball, are probably very familiar with

303
00:14:47,206 --> 00:14:49,756
this story. He's a phenomenal player,

304
00:14:49,852 --> 00:14:52,612
but he's also been very open about

305
00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:55,438
his mental health challenges. And he

306
00:14:55,774 --> 00:14:58,074
is, one of the backers of this

307
00:14:58,176 --> 00:15:01,094
project. and they're also even going to

308
00:15:01,116 --> 00:15:03,972
do a companion piece with it, to

309
00:15:04,010 --> 00:15:06,722
help, a curriculum

310
00:15:06,770 --> 00:15:09,558
that can be there for teenagers and other folks,

311
00:15:09,578 --> 00:15:12,122
that will give people opportunity to

312
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,098
really open up,

313
00:15:15,058 --> 00:15:17,940
show coping mechanisms, apparently. I think they're going to do like a

314
00:15:17,994 --> 00:15:20,884
creative storyboard. So that's interactive, so you

315
00:15:20,986 --> 00:15:23,620
can use it. And one of the things Kevin love

316
00:15:23,674 --> 00:15:26,486
mentioned that, we'll see in the series

317
00:15:26,582 --> 00:15:29,466
is miles as he's dealing with this panic attack

318
00:15:29,552 --> 00:15:32,282
and opening up to his father

319
00:15:32,410 --> 00:15:35,262
and showing how whenever we do have our

320
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:38,156
mental health challenges, on don't.

321
00:15:38,172 --> 00:15:40,896
Not to clam up and keep it all inside. So

322
00:15:41,062 --> 00:15:43,972
it sounds like it's going to be a mix of both entertainment, but

323
00:15:44,010 --> 00:15:46,804
also going to be helpful, which I think

324
00:15:46,826 --> 00:15:49,332
is great. So I can't wait to see this on YouTube next

325
00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:49,956
week.

326
00:15:50,122 --> 00:15:52,920
>> Sarah : Yeah, I like how they're not

327
00:15:52,974 --> 00:15:55,684
just doing it to keep Spiderverse

328
00:15:55,876 --> 00:15:58,472
on everyone's mind, but there's a

329
00:15:58,510 --> 00:16:01,302
message beneath it. so

330
00:16:01,420 --> 00:16:04,202
I can really appreciate that. And it's a good use

331
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,650
of platform and to provide

332
00:16:06,784 --> 00:16:09,706
content. So put that on

333
00:16:09,712 --> 00:16:12,352
your calendars, people. we

334
00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:15,104
will probably be talking about it in the

335
00:16:15,126 --> 00:16:17,888
future. all right, so

336
00:16:19,478 --> 00:16:22,414
let's just get invincible out of the way because will doesn't

337
00:16:22,446 --> 00:16:23,748
want to talk about it.

338
00:16:24,838 --> 00:16:27,794
>> Will: It's not that I don't want to talk about it. It's not that I don't want to talk

339
00:16:27,816 --> 00:16:30,544
about it. he doesn't want to continue talking

340
00:16:30,646 --> 00:16:33,372
about start.

341
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:36,340
We're looking at three body problem as well coming

342
00:16:36,394 --> 00:16:39,198
up. Drops, tomorrow, right? Yeah, it's already here.

343
00:16:39,268 --> 00:16:40,798
>> Sarah : It's already on Netflix.

344
00:16:41,298 --> 00:16:43,328
>> Will: Okay. Yeah.

345
00:16:44,838 --> 00:16:47,638
so I was just trying to figure out which way to go, folks.

346
00:16:48,858 --> 00:16:51,128
>> Sarah : Right. So we did watch,

347
00:16:51,428 --> 00:16:54,400
invincible season two, episode five. This

348
00:16:54,454 --> 00:16:57,420
must come as a shock, which is the first episode

349
00:16:57,484 --> 00:17:00,480
to drop of the second half of the

350
00:17:00,534 --> 00:17:02,928
second season. so

351
00:17:03,298 --> 00:17:05,594
I watched this on Sunday,

352
00:17:05,786 --> 00:17:08,128
and I will be honest,

353
00:17:08,738 --> 00:17:10,654
I actually was pretty

354
00:17:10,756 --> 00:17:13,572
engaged, because they did a pretty

355
00:17:13,610 --> 00:17:16,480
good job of reminding me things that

356
00:17:16,634 --> 00:17:18,938
happened, during,

357
00:17:19,538 --> 00:17:22,190
the fourth episode, as well

358
00:17:22,244 --> 00:17:24,448
as starting

359
00:17:25,638 --> 00:17:28,434
to talk about, like, okay, well, where could

360
00:17:28,456 --> 00:17:31,314
these characters potentially go from there? I

361
00:17:31,336 --> 00:17:34,226
can appreciate that. Mark had to take home

362
00:17:34,312 --> 00:17:35,458
his baby,

363
00:17:38,208 --> 00:17:40,668
to. To then become a single father,

364
00:17:42,368 --> 00:17:43,118
basically,

365
00:17:45,328 --> 00:17:46,398
much to.

366
00:17:49,088 --> 00:17:51,940
So. But then it lost me

367
00:17:51,994 --> 00:17:54,484
during the third act

368
00:17:54,666 --> 00:17:57,508
fight sequences that were going

369
00:17:57,578 --> 00:18:00,576
on and anything to do with, I want to say, the guardian

370
00:18:00,672 --> 00:18:03,508
stuff. I have not followed that storyline

371
00:18:03,588 --> 00:18:06,552
at all, so I never have any investment in it.

372
00:18:06,670 --> 00:18:09,338
But overall, I was just like, okay,

373
00:18:10,108 --> 00:18:13,032
I'm here for it. We'll just

374
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:15,794
wrap it up. But, during our preshow

375
00:18:15,826 --> 00:18:18,602
discussion, we'll raise some points and it does

376
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,626
sound like next week we'll be starting

377
00:18:21,712 --> 00:18:24,522
three body, one problem, and we may or

378
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,818
may not ever finish season two of,

379
00:18:26,818 --> 00:18:27,756
invincible.

380
00:18:28,666 --> 00:18:31,418
>> Will: think about this, folks, though, while we talk about

381
00:18:31,472 --> 00:18:33,356
episode five, though, because maybe

382
00:18:35,006 --> 00:18:37,850
I agree with you. I did

383
00:18:37,888 --> 00:18:38,796
like the return,

384
00:18:40,776 --> 00:18:42,726
of the show.

385
00:18:45,016 --> 00:18:47,780
Both the season premiere as well

386
00:18:47,818 --> 00:18:50,048
as the midseason

387
00:18:50,112 --> 00:18:52,808
return. Both had Mark

388
00:18:52,942 --> 00:18:54,986
jacked up, getting beat up

389
00:18:55,996 --> 00:18:58,804
from his father, and then

390
00:18:58,890 --> 00:19:01,526
again with the Viltrumites at the end of

391
00:19:02,056 --> 00:19:04,942
the, first half of the second season. But I like the

392
00:19:04,964 --> 00:19:07,870
way that they turned the narrative this

393
00:19:07,908 --> 00:19:10,656
time around instead of Mark

394
00:19:11,906 --> 00:19:14,254
being beat down

395
00:19:14,340 --> 00:19:16,756
and how he responded after

396
00:19:17,446 --> 00:19:20,370
what happened at the end of the season. Now,

397
00:19:20,488 --> 00:19:23,058
as you noted, he's on

398
00:19:23,192 --> 00:19:26,050
Thraxon and learning about

399
00:19:26,168 --> 00:19:28,576
his brother, half brother,

400
00:19:28,526 --> 00:19:31,518
also helping the society

401
00:19:31,582 --> 00:19:34,422
rebuild. He has a purpose to the point that he actually

402
00:19:34,524 --> 00:19:37,510
lost. It ended up being like two

403
00:19:37,548 --> 00:19:39,176
months that he was,

404
00:19:43,666 --> 00:19:46,210
think. I think Nolan, after

405
00:19:46,408 --> 00:19:49,128
being taken away, wanted

406
00:19:49,182 --> 00:19:51,660
Mark to read the books and stuff. I think

407
00:19:51,698 --> 00:19:54,156
Mark started to understand

408
00:19:54,306 --> 00:19:56,236
where Nolan

409
00:19:57,216 --> 00:19:59,246
was coming from and why

410
00:20:00,336 --> 00:20:02,984
he goes from planet to

411
00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:05,500
planet, like, basically siren

412
00:20:05,548 --> 00:20:06,146
kids.

413
00:20:06,256 --> 00:20:06,406
>> Sarah : M.

414
00:20:08,726 --> 00:20:11,306
>> Will: but, yeah, I thought it was a good. You're right.

415
00:20:11,456 --> 00:20:14,442
It was engaging the stuff, too, where we found out what

416
00:20:14,464 --> 00:20:17,370
was truly going on with Donald. I like that story

417
00:20:17,408 --> 00:20:20,302
because I know we were both wondering what was going on with him in the first half of

418
00:20:20,324 --> 00:20:21,006
the season.

419
00:20:23,036 --> 00:20:26,008
so those are all cool things I did like about

420
00:20:26,062 --> 00:20:28,914
it. the Guardian story. I was like, you as

421
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,970
just. These characters just don't resonate with me at

422
00:20:32,008 --> 00:20:34,562
all. So I think that's where some of

423
00:20:34,584 --> 00:20:37,556
my reticence and

424
00:20:40,086 --> 00:20:42,942
where I feel like the show gets uneven at times

425
00:20:43,064 --> 00:20:45,686
is just like, if it just solely focused on Mark

426
00:20:45,836 --> 00:20:48,562
and his things that are going on there. It's a solid

427
00:20:48,594 --> 00:20:51,256
show, but the other things, and I know it's an

428
00:20:52,366 --> 00:20:55,066
just those parts just don't

429
00:20:56,526 --> 00:20:57,322
rock with.

430
00:20:57,424 --> 00:21:00,122
>> Sarah : It's never felt like an ensemble to me.

431
00:21:00,224 --> 00:21:00,874
>> Will: Yeah.

432
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,750
>> Sarah : If that was the intention, then they

433
00:21:03,808 --> 00:21:06,398
missed it because they really, from the first

434
00:21:06,452 --> 00:21:08,976
episode, made this about Mark and

435
00:21:11,106 --> 00:21:14,030
having, like, there's such

436
00:21:14,068 --> 00:21:16,914
a detachment between Mark

437
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,396
and the Guardians that

438
00:21:20,006 --> 00:21:22,802
I don't feel like I'm watching a team show. So,

439
00:21:22,904 --> 00:21:25,746
granted, we have Adam Eve, who, because

440
00:21:25,816 --> 00:21:28,498
they did, those two

441
00:21:28,552 --> 00:21:31,378
episodes that were kind of part of the season,

442
00:21:31,442 --> 00:21:34,352
but not really. I understand

443
00:21:34,454 --> 00:21:37,440
her character a little bit more than I did during the first

444
00:21:37,478 --> 00:21:40,240
season, but they're not going to do that for every

445
00:21:40,278 --> 00:21:43,188
single character on the Guardians. And that's not

446
00:21:43,242 --> 00:21:45,812
really what you should have to

447
00:21:45,834 --> 00:21:48,772
do in order to understand characters. Part

448
00:21:48,794 --> 00:21:51,300
of the. I

449
00:21:51,338 --> 00:21:54,232
don't. I feel like they really need

450
00:21:54,254 --> 00:21:56,760
to figure out a way to make the

451
00:21:56,798 --> 00:21:59,700
Guardians more present in Mark's

452
00:21:59,748 --> 00:22:02,520
story for me to

453
00:22:02,558 --> 00:22:04,106
invest in them as.

454
00:22:09,776 --> 00:22:12,318
>> Sarah : To, go back

455
00:22:12,372 --> 00:22:15,154
to, What was his name? You said

456
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,476
name. No, Tom.

457
00:22:21,166 --> 00:22:23,276
How much I pay attention to the show

458
00:22:24,606 --> 00:22:27,450
because I wanted to say my joke. They made him into

459
00:22:27,488 --> 00:22:29,996
Cliff from Doom Patrol. Done.

460
00:22:31,906 --> 00:22:34,782
Anyway, so that was about Donald, and

461
00:22:34,884 --> 00:22:37,806
we talked about Mark becoming a single father

462
00:22:38,226 --> 00:22:40,046
to his half alien.

463
00:22:47,936 --> 00:22:50,460
>> Sarah : There'S not really a

464
00:22:50,498 --> 00:22:53,292
lot that technically happened in

465
00:22:53,314 --> 00:22:55,904
this episode because it is

466
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:57,906
the midseason return,

467
00:22:58,676 --> 00:23:01,420
and it's been so long since the fourth

468
00:23:01,468 --> 00:23:03,856
episode that they had

469
00:23:03,926 --> 00:23:06,820
to kind of explain,

470
00:23:06,938 --> 00:23:09,872
okay, so while Mark was here, he's

471
00:23:09,904 --> 00:23:12,726
going to come back to Earth and then

472
00:23:14,136 --> 00:23:16,900
basically see what went on with

473
00:23:16,938 --> 00:23:19,620
his mom while he was gone and what went on with his

474
00:23:19,658 --> 00:23:20,516
girlfriend,

475
00:23:22,426 --> 00:23:22,790
>> Will: Who.

476
00:23:22,828 --> 00:23:25,576
>> Sarah : I found to be really interesting because

477
00:23:27,706 --> 00:23:30,216
there's resentment that's building,

478
00:23:31,006 --> 00:23:33,878
and I'm waiting for that argument

479
00:23:33,942 --> 00:23:36,646
to happen and for that shoe to drop

480
00:23:36,726 --> 00:23:39,354
and for Mark to really

481
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,086
start to understand Nolan's perspective

482
00:23:42,166 --> 00:23:44,496
as being not fully human.

483
00:23:44,866 --> 00:23:47,832
I don't think in the first season, that it's

484
00:23:47,864 --> 00:23:50,748
ever fully dawned on him what that

485
00:23:50,802 --> 00:23:53,148
means. and just because you have

486
00:23:53,202 --> 00:23:56,076
powers. Well, that's from

487
00:23:56,146 --> 00:23:59,116
a part of you that's from this

488
00:23:59,186 --> 00:24:00,556
other species,

489
00:24:02,516 --> 00:24:04,976
I think that they have a lot to explore.

490
00:24:05,466 --> 00:24:08,458
but at the same time, this release schedule has

491
00:24:08,512 --> 00:24:11,036
done no favors for this.

492
00:24:12,446 --> 00:24:15,206
>> Will: No, no, it didn't.

493
00:24:15,666 --> 00:24:18,538
I agree with you that in particular with Amber,

494
00:24:18,602 --> 00:24:19,216
because

495
00:24:22,546 --> 00:24:25,272
she's. She's got her story. I don't know

496
00:24:25,454 --> 00:24:27,496
her mark, talking about the books,

497
00:24:31,276 --> 00:24:34,246
what she did with them, but, Amber,

498
00:24:34,326 --> 00:24:37,102
yeah, you're. That. That

499
00:24:37,124 --> 00:24:39,966
resentment is building. I mean, she's being supportive,

500
00:24:40,306 --> 00:24:42,974
but they're starting to see some cracks in the

501
00:24:42,980 --> 00:24:45,944
foundation there, with their relationship as far as

502
00:24:46,050 --> 00:24:48,912
being supportive. And I think you hit the nail on the head as far

503
00:24:48,934 --> 00:24:51,868
as Mark, really now on the second season,

504
00:24:51,932 --> 00:24:54,752
is really starting to understand what his

505
00:24:54,774 --> 00:24:57,536
father went, and

506
00:24:58,226 --> 00:25:00,736
especially after he

507
00:25:01,186 --> 00:25:04,062
saw from the

508
00:25:04,084 --> 00:25:06,858
consequences of it, not necessarily

509
00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:09,746
with earth, but with another planet, with the Viltrumites and

510
00:25:09,816 --> 00:25:12,792
what could happen to Earth, if

511
00:25:12,894 --> 00:25:13,546
he

512
00:25:15,756 --> 00:25:18,600
doesn't follow in Nolan's footsteps, as far as trying to protect

513
00:25:18,718 --> 00:25:20,056
these societies

514
00:25:21,436 --> 00:25:23,496
from the Viltramites

515
00:25:24,336 --> 00:25:27,260
mission of conquering everything. So those

516
00:25:27,298 --> 00:25:30,092
were some really good moments. And then I did

517
00:25:30,114 --> 00:25:32,786
like how they tied the first season story,

518
00:25:33,486 --> 00:25:36,426
with Shapesmith and the whole Martian,

519
00:25:37,366 --> 00:25:37,386
astronauts.

520
00:25:40,316 --> 00:25:43,116
those are the things I think it also does well as far as building

521
00:25:43,186 --> 00:25:46,156
on previous episodes

522
00:25:46,496 --> 00:25:48,526
and reminds you of, like,

523
00:25:49,456 --> 00:25:52,072
there is an overall arc

524
00:25:52,264 --> 00:25:55,132
and things that happened in the

525
00:25:55,154 --> 00:25:57,868
previous seasons does have

526
00:25:57,922 --> 00:26:00,720
impact on subsequent seasons. I

527
00:26:00,758 --> 00:26:03,416
did like that aspect of the story, this week as,

528
00:26:05,236 --> 00:26:08,164
when. But again, when Mark and

529
00:26:08,170 --> 00:26:11,060
the Guardians do finally get together, it's just like

530
00:26:11,098 --> 00:26:13,748
you said, it doesn't seem organic. It just seems

531
00:26:13,802 --> 00:26:14,806
like very.

532
00:26:15,736 --> 00:26:18,208
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. To go back

533
00:26:18,282 --> 00:26:21,128
to, his mom, what I was

534
00:26:21,166 --> 00:26:23,864
saying was more. Or what I saw

535
00:26:23,934 --> 00:26:26,154
was more about how

536
00:26:30,444 --> 00:26:32,604
during the first half of this season,

537
00:26:33,664 --> 00:26:36,488
we saw a lot from her, about essentially

538
00:26:36,536 --> 00:26:39,388
the grieving process of her husband, of the life that

539
00:26:39,426 --> 00:26:42,108
she once had. And now

540
00:26:42,146 --> 00:26:45,036
she's gone through two months without her son, who technically

541
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:48,096
is the only tie left that

542
00:26:48,150 --> 00:26:50,960
she has to Nolan. and so

543
00:26:50,982 --> 00:26:53,408
I wonder if that allowed her some

544
00:26:53,446 --> 00:26:56,308
peace just because you love your

545
00:26:56,346 --> 00:26:59,174
child, but he is still

546
00:26:59,864 --> 00:27:02,454
part of Nolan and still

547
00:27:02,904 --> 00:27:05,348
tied to them in that. So

548
00:27:05,546 --> 00:27:08,376
when. Just because Nolan left doesn't mean

549
00:27:08,430 --> 00:27:11,336
that you're not shackled in some

550
00:27:11,390 --> 00:27:14,034
sort of way, because you have a kid together. And

551
00:27:14,072 --> 00:27:16,180
now, on top of it,

552
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:18,866
she's presented with, oh,

553
00:27:19,048 --> 00:27:21,766
Nolan, when he went

554
00:27:21,788 --> 00:27:24,600
away, he went and he, got together

555
00:27:24,670 --> 00:27:27,320
with another woman and also

556
00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:30,120
reproduced. And so now you're also

557
00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,748
not only having to continue

558
00:27:32,834 --> 00:27:35,436
raising your own son, but also

559
00:27:35,618 --> 00:27:38,572
Nolan's half son. So I think

560
00:27:38,626 --> 00:27:41,612
that there is a very interesting angle to

561
00:27:41,666 --> 00:27:44,496
do with her character in

562
00:27:44,518 --> 00:27:47,296
terms of her trying to

563
00:27:47,318 --> 00:27:50,192
figure out what this means,

564
00:27:50,326 --> 00:27:53,162
especially as, she continues. I think she says something

565
00:27:53,264 --> 00:27:55,756
about this in the episode, like

566
00:27:56,526 --> 00:27:59,130
cleaning up Nolan's mess.

567
00:27:59,328 --> 00:28:01,546
Constantly. Constantly.

568
00:28:04,706 --> 00:28:07,136
I think they teased a lot of stuff,

569
00:28:07,716 --> 00:28:10,180
while at the same time, I'm like,

570
00:28:10,378 --> 00:28:11,126
no,

571
00:28:14,616 --> 00:28:16,006
don't do this to.

572
00:28:18,056 --> 00:28:20,872
>> Will: Tease. I'm glad you brought that up about, Mark's

573
00:28:20,904 --> 00:28:21,966
mother, because

574
00:28:23,776 --> 00:28:26,770
I just felt like they did tease was, as you

575
00:28:26,808 --> 00:28:29,506
rightly noted, it's the first episode back after a break,

576
00:28:29,576 --> 00:28:32,402
so you don't want to get too deep into it. But it

577
00:28:32,424 --> 00:28:34,856
did set up, sort of

578
00:28:36,746 --> 00:28:39,542
the thread. Know, now that you have

579
00:28:39,564 --> 00:28:42,470
Nolan's child from another mother under your

580
00:28:42,508 --> 00:28:45,478
roof and Mark's asking you to help take care of it and that kind of thing.

581
00:28:45,532 --> 00:28:48,502
It definitely does set up some interesting plot

582
00:28:48,534 --> 00:28:51,334
points that they can pursue. Hopefully, they'll

583
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:54,270
pursue them. Well, like they did with her when she

584
00:28:54,308 --> 00:28:56,958
was with the support group. I thought that

585
00:28:57,092 --> 00:28:59,762
was something that stood out for me in the first half of

586
00:28:59,784 --> 00:29:01,346
the second season.

587
00:29:02,326 --> 00:29:05,278
>> Sarah : Yep. All right, well, that is a wrap

588
00:29:05,342 --> 00:29:08,250
on our discussion of, invincible, season two,

589
00:29:08,288 --> 00:29:09,302
episode five.

590
00:29:09,424 --> 00:29:12,234
>> Will: Don't forget about Alan. Alan's

591
00:29:12,250 --> 00:29:14,496
back. I said, don't forget. Alan's back.

592
00:29:14,866 --> 00:29:17,694
>> Sarah : I didn't forget. I was just on to the

593
00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:19,696
next show because it sounded like we were.

594
00:29:20,546 --> 00:29:21,616
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

595
00:29:24,826 --> 00:29:27,516
>> Sarah : all right, so that brings us to Shogun,

596
00:29:27,936 --> 00:29:30,796
episode five, broken to the fist.

597
00:29:31,376 --> 00:29:34,308
An IMDb summary says Blackthorn

598
00:29:34,392 --> 00:29:37,340
and Marico struggle to contain their secret

599
00:29:37,388 --> 00:29:40,092
that could get them both killed. Abu

600
00:29:40,124 --> 00:29:43,008
Shige searches for the spy who has

601
00:29:43,062 --> 00:29:45,776
betrayed his intentions to lord,

602
00:29:46,536 --> 00:29:46,818
Will.

603
00:29:46,872 --> 00:29:49,734
>> Will: What did you think about this, episode?

604
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:52,618
It's like, this

605
00:29:52,672 --> 00:29:55,630
was like. Well, I can't say every

606
00:29:55,668 --> 00:29:58,530
week this is my favorite, but this one really was really good this

607
00:29:58,568 --> 00:30:00,740
week. I, think it was just a

608
00:30:00,906 --> 00:30:03,906
very well rounded story. Tornaga

609
00:30:03,954 --> 00:30:06,326
shows back up to see the

610
00:30:06,364 --> 00:30:09,238
consequences of what his son had

611
00:30:09,260 --> 00:30:11,858
wrought with the

612
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:14,496
canon attack. Blackthorn, the whole

613
00:30:14,534 --> 00:30:17,278
triangle. Blackthorn, Fuji, and

614
00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:20,218
Mariko. With the return

615
00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:23,250
of a certain person who you called it.

616
00:30:23,336 --> 00:30:24,372
You're right.

617
00:30:26,422 --> 00:30:28,400
Bentaro was, not dead.

618
00:30:28,496 --> 00:30:31,456
>> Sarah : I can. Yeah, no, he's

619
00:30:31,504 --> 00:30:34,104
not dead. And I did say it. And then you

620
00:30:34,158 --> 00:30:35,562
question. You made me.

621
00:30:38,492 --> 00:30:41,032
>> Will: Wrong. I was wrong. I will freely admit.

622
00:30:41,372 --> 00:30:44,246
I thought, that he

623
00:30:44,284 --> 00:30:46,864
was a goner. but they

624
00:30:46,998 --> 00:30:49,776
figured out he got some help from some

625
00:30:49,814 --> 00:30:51,282
Ronan, and he's back.

626
00:30:52,932 --> 00:30:55,472
>> Sarah : Don't appreciate that we didn't.

627
00:30:57,352 --> 00:30:59,956
I feel like they took the easy way out of

628
00:30:59,994 --> 00:31:01,782
explaining how he's back.

629
00:31:02,872 --> 00:31:05,316
And I think it was easier to do that in the

630
00:31:05,354 --> 00:31:07,572
book, but visually,

631
00:31:08,792 --> 00:31:11,494
from, a television perspective or even

632
00:31:11,628 --> 00:31:14,486
from a movie perspective, it seems a bit far

633
00:31:14,524 --> 00:31:15,302
fetched.

634
00:31:16,762 --> 00:31:19,112
>> Will: Yeah, well, I guess it was. It,

635
00:31:20,282 --> 00:31:22,542
however many Ronan that helped him out,

636
00:31:24,112 --> 00:31:26,848
but it took him 20 days to return, and only two of them

637
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:29,696
survived or whatever. I guess it was

638
00:31:29,734 --> 00:31:32,544
a tell not show kind of situation with

639
00:31:32,598 --> 00:31:33,820
how he got back.

640
00:31:34,006 --> 00:31:36,356
>> Sarah : It definitely was. It just

641
00:31:36,474 --> 00:31:38,182
bothered me because

642
00:31:42,632 --> 00:31:44,342
I guess there was nothing

643
00:31:44,792 --> 00:31:47,736
planted in that episode where he,

644
00:31:47,774 --> 00:31:50,424
quote unquote, dies, that would

645
00:31:50,478 --> 00:31:53,256
say, oh, he could survive because

646
00:31:53,294 --> 00:31:54,922
there are. Ronan over.

647
00:31:57,132 --> 00:32:00,008
>> Will: Yeah. And I haven't read the book, and I want to say I

648
00:32:00,030 --> 00:32:02,908
was listening one recap from somewhere. I don't know if it

649
00:32:02,930 --> 00:32:05,442
was, Rogan and, Steve Miller.

650
00:32:06,202 --> 00:32:08,966
or another one where I think they switched that from the

651
00:32:09,004 --> 00:32:11,612
book. where I think in the book, he actually

652
00:32:11,682 --> 00:32:14,456
did commit honorable suicide

653
00:32:14,504 --> 00:32:15,902
there after he

654
00:32:18,032 --> 00:32:20,998
fall, off the invade. Well, actually, he fought him

655
00:32:21,020 --> 00:32:23,858
off, and then before he could get captured, he killed

656
00:32:23,890 --> 00:32:26,768
himself. so I think this may have been a change. So if

657
00:32:26,790 --> 00:32:29,376
any folks out there who've read the book can

658
00:32:29,494 --> 00:32:32,222
correct, please, please do so, because

659
00:32:32,592 --> 00:32:33,596
I haven't read it.

660
00:32:33,634 --> 00:32:36,416
>> Sarah : It is because in a recap that I was

661
00:32:36,454 --> 00:32:39,020
listening to who? I was listening to Roka's

662
00:32:39,036 --> 00:32:41,936
recap, and his panelist is a book

663
00:32:41,974 --> 00:32:44,544
reader, and the way he talked about

664
00:32:44,598 --> 00:32:47,268
Bentoro and the events of this episode with

665
00:32:47,290 --> 00:32:49,060
Marico, those still happen.

666
00:32:49,226 --> 00:32:49,942
>> Will: Okay.

667
00:32:50,712 --> 00:32:53,476
>> Sarah : I don't think it was a change from the book. I think

668
00:32:53,514 --> 00:32:55,968
that it got confused

669
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,548
because people were starting.

670
00:32:58,730 --> 00:33:00,992
Were talking about cultural

671
00:33:01,072 --> 00:33:03,844
implications of what could

672
00:33:03,898 --> 00:33:04,612
potentially,

673
00:33:07,402 --> 00:33:10,330
while. And I think a lot of the book readers are doing a

674
00:33:10,336 --> 00:33:13,146
good job while also holding back and

675
00:33:13,184 --> 00:33:15,966
letting people who have not read the books be

676
00:33:16,004 --> 00:33:18,026
surprised by the events of the series.

677
00:33:18,154 --> 00:33:18,832
>> Will: Yeah.

678
00:33:18,922 --> 00:33:21,766
>> Sarah : but let's just be like. Will was surprised. I was

679
00:33:21,804 --> 00:33:23,522
not surprised because you weren't.

680
00:33:23,602 --> 00:33:26,498
>> Will: No. I was

681
00:33:26,540 --> 00:33:29,354
sitting in the airport when I was watching

682
00:33:29,408 --> 00:33:32,266
the episode, and then when it popped up and he was back, I was

683
00:33:32,304 --> 00:33:35,126
like, all right, I made a note

684
00:33:35,174 --> 00:33:37,422
to give you your

685
00:33:37,492 --> 00:33:40,140
props. you got that one.

686
00:33:40,226 --> 00:33:42,926
And, I was wrong. The

687
00:33:42,964 --> 00:33:45,694
thing, too. Whenever he did return, it just

688
00:33:45,748 --> 00:33:48,742
really, Mariko's face,

689
00:33:49,732 --> 00:33:51,762
whenever she

690
00:33:52,532 --> 00:33:55,442
found out, and he's standing there,

691
00:33:55,892 --> 00:33:58,876
and hats off to Anna

692
00:33:58,924 --> 00:34:01,702
Sawai, who's, like, playing her, because

693
00:34:02,152 --> 00:34:04,884
the face acting in that moment was

694
00:34:04,938 --> 00:34:07,136
just on top. I mean, all the various

695
00:34:07,184 --> 00:34:09,700
emotions that I'm sure

696
00:34:09,866 --> 00:34:12,336
Marco was feeling just on full display

697
00:34:12,384 --> 00:34:15,192
there know, especially given that

698
00:34:15,262 --> 00:34:18,008
where the showrunner on the official podcast of the

699
00:34:18,030 --> 00:34:20,122
show did, confirm that,

700
00:34:20,602 --> 00:34:23,512
Blackthorn and Marco did sleep together.

701
00:34:24,202 --> 00:34:27,158
So you got this, and now he's back and all the

702
00:34:27,180 --> 00:34:30,170
things. Of course, then we learned that he's an abusive. We knew he was an

703
00:34:30,176 --> 00:34:32,986
abusive spouse, but then we saw it play out in this

704
00:34:33,024 --> 00:34:35,452
episode very deeply,

705
00:34:35,964 --> 00:34:38,906
and troubling. So, yeah,

706
00:34:38,944 --> 00:34:41,894
hats off to her as far as the way she conveyed

707
00:34:42,038 --> 00:34:43,932
what the character was feeling at that moment.

708
00:34:45,262 --> 00:34:48,090
>> Sarah : So what do you make of

709
00:34:48,176 --> 00:34:50,702
the fact that we're given

710
00:34:50,772 --> 00:34:53,166
Marico's backstory in this

711
00:34:53,204 --> 00:34:56,026
episode, which has been hinted

712
00:34:56,074 --> 00:34:58,510
at in the first episodes and

713
00:34:58,596 --> 00:35:01,374
alluded to, and the shame that came

714
00:35:01,428 --> 00:35:03,822
to her family was because her father

715
00:35:03,902 --> 00:35:06,858
killed the, emperor that

716
00:35:06,976 --> 00:35:08,154
preceded,

717
00:35:09,584 --> 00:35:10,604
Teiko

718
00:35:13,204 --> 00:35:15,074
and assassinated him,

719
00:35:15,844 --> 00:35:18,754
not because he wanted the power, but because

720
00:35:19,604 --> 00:35:22,368
he knew that that ruler at the time was very

721
00:35:22,406 --> 00:35:25,064
corrupt. so

722
00:35:25,454 --> 00:35:27,850
then, because of

723
00:35:27,952 --> 00:35:30,682
rituals, honor and respect and everything,

724
00:35:30,848 --> 00:35:33,418
everyone immediately went after her

725
00:35:33,456 --> 00:35:36,316
family to kill them. her

726
00:35:36,370 --> 00:35:38,704
father ended up committing suicide.

727
00:35:41,524 --> 00:35:44,288
And this is where I'm like, can we get a little bit

728
00:35:44,326 --> 00:35:47,056
more context? Because she just

729
00:35:47,110 --> 00:35:49,904
so happens to end up marrying

730
00:35:50,264 --> 00:35:53,174
Buntaro before.

731
00:35:55,944 --> 00:35:58,244
I just want to understand the timeline

732
00:35:59,304 --> 00:36:02,276
because the way it keeps being explained, it

733
00:36:02,330 --> 00:36:05,192
sounds like he married her

734
00:36:05,278 --> 00:36:07,514
after the shame had happened.

735
00:36:08,434 --> 00:36:11,406
but that doesn't make sense to me of how

736
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:14,362
she would be able to marry him after

737
00:36:14,468 --> 00:36:17,378
that all played out. So she ends up

738
00:36:17,416 --> 00:36:19,364
marrying him and,

739
00:36:20,044 --> 00:36:22,844
therefore gets protection, essentially.

740
00:36:23,004 --> 00:36:25,840
And she wants to kill herself to

741
00:36:25,862 --> 00:36:28,054
die with her family. And,

742
00:36:29,454 --> 00:36:32,390
every year on the anniversary of, her

743
00:36:32,428 --> 00:36:35,288
father's death, asks to

744
00:36:35,342 --> 00:36:37,988
commit suicide, and he orders her

745
00:36:38,062 --> 00:36:39,006
to live.

746
00:36:40,256 --> 00:36:43,132
Considering the abuse we saw

747
00:36:43,234 --> 00:36:45,564
displayed for. Mm, what do you make

748
00:36:45,650 --> 00:36:48,366
of him always

749
00:36:50,516 --> 00:36:52,396
making, her live?

750
00:36:54,016 --> 00:36:56,812
>> Will: so that's a lot to unpack there. so as

751
00:36:56,834 --> 00:36:59,692
far as the shame that

752
00:36:59,794 --> 00:37:01,326
befell her house,

753
00:37:03,716 --> 00:37:06,512
the only thing I could figure, just looking at

754
00:37:06,534 --> 00:37:09,424
the whole learning, picking up the

755
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:11,746
cues better than Blackthorne has,

756
00:37:12,276 --> 00:37:15,184
is she's christian. So I'm

757
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,892
trying to figure out if that plays into the

758
00:37:17,914 --> 00:37:20,868
protection as far as if

759
00:37:20,922 --> 00:37:23,332
that. No, yeah, no, I was

760
00:37:23,354 --> 00:37:23,926
just

761
00:37:27,596 --> 00:37:30,132
trying to answer your thinking out loud, I will freely

762
00:37:30,164 --> 00:37:31,966
admit. Okay. yeah,

763
00:37:33,256 --> 00:37:34,726
we don't have to.

764
00:37:35,816 --> 00:37:38,580
>> Sarah : If nothing comes, man, I'm not even talking about

765
00:37:38,618 --> 00:37:41,080
her. I understand. Based on

766
00:37:41,118 --> 00:37:43,672
everything we've learned so far about the

767
00:37:43,694 --> 00:37:46,648
culture at the time, of why she

768
00:37:46,702 --> 00:37:49,560
would want to die with them, that makes sense

769
00:37:49,598 --> 00:37:52,236
to me. I think she became christian after

770
00:37:52,386 --> 00:37:53,406
that happened.

771
00:37:55,646 --> 00:37:57,866
but still, that's her family,

772
00:37:58,016 --> 00:37:58,716
and

773
00:38:02,206 --> 00:38:05,150
those are the rules she first learned about. The way

774
00:38:05,188 --> 00:38:08,062
the world works. So just because she takes up

775
00:38:08,084 --> 00:38:09,806
Christianity, it's not going to

776
00:38:09,956 --> 00:38:12,798
circumvent it. I mean, she's still

777
00:38:12,852 --> 00:38:14,286
asked to die.

778
00:38:15,096 --> 00:38:17,972
but where I'm still trying to

779
00:38:17,994 --> 00:38:20,484
figure out motives and

780
00:38:20,650 --> 00:38:23,268
choices is with Pintaro and

781
00:38:23,322 --> 00:38:26,100
him. Even though he's abusive and

782
00:38:26,138 --> 00:38:28,920
dismissive of marico, they share

783
00:38:28,958 --> 00:38:31,802
the look, when

784
00:38:31,824 --> 00:38:33,626
we think he's going to die,

785
00:38:34,286 --> 00:38:36,506
and a look of respect

786
00:38:37,566 --> 00:38:40,256
and knowing that he

787
00:38:40,626 --> 00:38:42,496
orders her to live

788
00:38:43,266 --> 00:38:44,576
by all else.

789
00:38:46,466 --> 00:38:47,536
It's interesting.

790
00:38:49,106 --> 00:38:50,176
>> Will: I do remember,

791
00:38:52,086 --> 00:38:55,074
yeah. What you said earlier, as far as the

792
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,666
timeline, she had married him before

793
00:38:57,816 --> 00:38:59,650
the events happened.

794
00:38:59,848 --> 00:39:02,658
>> Sarah : Okay. It had

795
00:39:02,712 --> 00:39:05,596
to have been because, that

796
00:39:05,666 --> 00:39:08,140
family wouldn't have allowed that marriage to

797
00:39:08,178 --> 00:39:10,328
happen had this murder occurred.

798
00:39:10,392 --> 00:39:13,320
>> Will: Exactly. That's why on the anniversary

799
00:39:13,368 --> 00:39:15,196
of her death, whenever

800
00:39:19,716 --> 00:39:22,640
she wants to correct the injustice by, you know, joining the rest of

801
00:39:22,678 --> 00:39:25,520
the family. Yeah, that makes. That's that. Yeah. So

802
00:39:25,558 --> 00:39:28,140
that's why it makes sense. Because he doesn't.

803
00:39:28,188 --> 00:39:31,126
Because she's his property and

804
00:39:31,496 --> 00:39:32,246
one,

805
00:39:36,276 --> 00:39:39,072
Okay, it gets into the whole thing of the

806
00:39:39,094 --> 00:39:41,892
whole family honor and stuff. I mean, the honorable thing to do would be to

807
00:39:41,914 --> 00:39:44,848
die. But no, he's going to make her relive this dishonor

808
00:39:44,912 --> 00:39:47,600
every single year, whenever

809
00:39:47,728 --> 00:39:50,672
they have the anniversary of the tragedy.

810
00:39:50,784 --> 00:39:53,568
So that's his way of just, like, poking

811
00:39:53,632 --> 00:39:55,466
her each time, like, no,

812
00:39:56,636 --> 00:39:59,320
we're going to make you relive this dishonor every single year

813
00:39:59,438 --> 00:40:01,096
on the anniversary of it.

814
00:40:01,246 --> 00:40:01,946
>> Sarah : Interesting.

815
00:40:02,316 --> 00:40:04,760
>> Will: Yeah. And it goes into that control and that

816
00:40:04,798 --> 00:40:07,432
abusive. Not only the cultural

817
00:40:07,464 --> 00:40:09,996
dynamics that were going on, but also just his

818
00:40:10,146 --> 00:40:12,700
clear abusive and

819
00:40:12,738 --> 00:40:15,406
dishonor and disrespect that he has towards her.

820
00:40:16,336 --> 00:40:19,292
>> Sarah : Well, I

821
00:40:19,314 --> 00:40:20,126
don't know.

822
00:40:23,476 --> 00:40:26,364
I'm not saying that there's love there. It's

823
00:40:26,380 --> 00:40:28,146
an act of love or anything,

824
00:40:28,836 --> 00:40:31,504
but I think it's a bit more complex

825
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,512
because from what I can tell, he's

826
00:40:34,544 --> 00:40:37,460
all about honor and respect, so

827
00:40:37,498 --> 00:40:38,966
why would he want to.

828
00:40:40,376 --> 00:40:42,596
Her shame is also his shame.

829
00:40:43,176 --> 00:40:45,444
>> Will: Well, but also. But she has value to

830
00:40:45,610 --> 00:40:46,896
Toronaga.

831
00:40:47,056 --> 00:40:48,996
>> Sarah : Yeah, but that's just recently.

832
00:40:50,636 --> 00:40:52,120
She's been married for years.

833
00:40:52,238 --> 00:40:55,176
>> Will: She's been married for years, but she's been trained to speak

834
00:40:55,246 --> 00:40:58,092
as an interpreter since she was a child. Because, remember the

835
00:40:58,114 --> 00:41:00,926
monk, the Portuguese,

836
00:41:00,876 --> 00:41:03,216
priest taught?

837
00:41:05,936 --> 00:41:08,272
>> Will: I mean, so she has some value

838
00:41:08,454 --> 00:41:09,826
beyond just

839
00:41:12,676 --> 00:41:15,664
tornaga and why she continues to help Toranaga, to

840
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:18,226
show her usefulness to him, even though

841
00:41:19,336 --> 00:41:21,140
dishonor is still there.

842
00:41:21,338 --> 00:41:24,100
>> Sarah : Yeah, I feel like if we continue talking

843
00:41:24,138 --> 00:41:26,452
about this, it'll just continue going in

844
00:41:26,474 --> 00:41:27,316
circles.

845
00:41:30,696 --> 00:41:33,046
>> Will: But we did finally learn as you

846
00:41:33,736 --> 00:41:36,680
know, it's been hinted on. And so we finally did learn a full story

847
00:41:36,718 --> 00:41:39,706
about what happened there. Which also makes

848
00:41:40,316 --> 00:41:43,066
with speaking of honor and stuff,

849
00:41:43,516 --> 00:41:46,492
with, Fiji and her family and learning of her

850
00:41:46,530 --> 00:41:49,404
father's dishonor, too, with the swords, with

851
00:41:49,426 --> 00:41:50,748
his coward's death.

852
00:41:54,998 --> 00:41:57,830
and especially when we see a similar

853
00:41:57,884 --> 00:42:00,566
parallel thing whenever her husband stepped out of

854
00:42:00,572 --> 00:42:03,522
line and committed ritual suicide,

855
00:42:03,570 --> 00:42:06,502
as well as taking their son. But

856
00:42:06,540 --> 00:42:09,106
then she now has to become the consort and

857
00:42:09,132 --> 00:42:11,802
barbarian. But she continues to show her

858
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,538
worth to the community and helping,

859
00:42:15,568 --> 00:42:17,964
blackthorn by being his

860
00:42:17,986 --> 00:42:20,844
consort and trying to help him

861
00:42:20,866 --> 00:42:23,576
learn at cultural ways and stuff, even though he still can't get him,

862
00:42:23,682 --> 00:42:25,218
still can't quite get it.

863
00:42:27,188 --> 00:42:29,872
>> Sarah : I don't feel like it's a value to the

864
00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:32,288
community. She's just becoming her own

865
00:42:32,358 --> 00:42:35,344
because she, finds

866
00:42:35,376 --> 00:42:38,164
herself in this position tied to

867
00:42:38,186 --> 00:42:41,058
someone who doesn't want to pillow her, who,

868
00:42:41,008 --> 00:42:43,978
respects her, who gave her a gun and

869
00:42:44,016 --> 00:42:45,484
who she. Now,

870
00:42:49,234 --> 00:42:52,206
I feel like she loves this new

871
00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:55,230
life that she's walked into and

872
00:42:55,252 --> 00:42:56,864
she wants to protect it.

873
00:43:00,314 --> 00:43:02,758
she knows what the community thinks of

874
00:43:02,796 --> 00:43:05,464
him and of her as being.

875
00:43:06,714 --> 00:43:09,702
But we find in this episode that she's really

876
00:43:09,868 --> 00:43:12,684
owning her place and the place that

877
00:43:13,454 --> 00:43:16,362
just so happens, like, Blackthorne has a lot

878
00:43:16,368 --> 00:43:19,126
of trust in her. and so she's

879
00:43:19,158 --> 00:43:21,130
starting to become one of my favorite.

880
00:43:26,670 --> 00:43:29,646
>> Will: And to your point about, she really likes the

881
00:43:29,668 --> 00:43:30,960
station now, because

882
00:43:32,370 --> 00:43:35,212
whenever, buntaro was, kept calling

883
00:43:35,266 --> 00:43:38,028
her a consort to a barbarian, she's like, no, I'm a

884
00:43:38,034 --> 00:43:39,070
consort to a.

885
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,036
Yeah, and that moment at the end of the episode, too, I

886
00:43:45,058 --> 00:43:47,792
think, it's helping black Thorn

887
00:43:47,856 --> 00:43:49,910
whenever she and Blackthorn shared that

888
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,864
and her role as far as

889
00:43:53,982 --> 00:43:56,888
being the consort to Hanamoto and doing all

890
00:43:56,894 --> 00:43:59,612
the things that she's been doing, even to the place

891
00:43:59,666 --> 00:44:02,648
of concealing the affair, because she's

892
00:44:02,664 --> 00:44:05,596
no dummy. She figured out what was going on whenever they

893
00:44:05,618 --> 00:44:08,124
had that conversation into that last

894
00:44:08,162 --> 00:44:08,940
episode.

895
00:44:10,270 --> 00:44:13,138
>> Sarah : well, I don't know, time wise,

896
00:44:13,334 --> 00:44:16,254
how long. And also the way her

897
00:44:16,292 --> 00:44:19,166
and talk, I feel like Marico would have

898
00:44:19,188 --> 00:44:21,710
came clean to her and trusted her with that

899
00:44:21,780 --> 00:44:24,434
information. but, yeah, I

900
00:44:24,472 --> 00:44:27,412
appreciated, that line from,

901
00:44:27,546 --> 00:44:30,324
like, the fugee, who we

902
00:44:30,362 --> 00:44:33,184
met in the first episode. Would have never had the guts

903
00:44:33,232 --> 00:44:34,928
to say that to Venturo.

904
00:44:35,104 --> 00:44:35,830
>> Will: Right.

905
00:44:37,020 --> 00:44:39,940
>> Sarah : But now, since being around Marico

906
00:44:40,020 --> 00:44:42,460
and, Blackthorn, she

907
00:44:44,430 --> 00:44:47,338
just. It's really interesting to see.

908
00:44:47,504 --> 00:44:50,446
And at the same time, there was conflict between her

909
00:44:50,468 --> 00:44:53,150
and blackthorn in this episode because of the pheasant,

910
00:44:53,330 --> 00:44:54,030
where

911
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,884
he picks up a few words and he just so

912
00:44:59,922 --> 00:45:02,768
happens to be able to tell them

913
00:45:02,854 --> 00:45:05,612
that they may not take this dead pheasant

914
00:45:05,676 --> 00:45:08,610
down. it will rot. but

915
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,140
in time, it will be cooked and everything,

916
00:45:12,170 --> 00:45:15,132
and, everyone's forbidden to touch it. Now, my

917
00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:17,852
first thought was ventorial was going to take that

918
00:45:17,890 --> 00:45:18,478
down.

919
00:45:21,098 --> 00:45:23,724
but it wasn't. the community, the

920
00:45:23,746 --> 00:45:26,684
village got together and was like, this pheasant has to

921
00:45:26,706 --> 00:45:27,278
go.

922
00:45:29,888 --> 00:45:32,332
and it was the gardener who we see throughout this

923
00:45:32,370 --> 00:45:35,050
episode, who has become, good

924
00:45:35,124 --> 00:45:37,668
friends with blackthorn. And

925
00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:41,250
he ends up in his old age saying,

926
00:45:41,304 --> 00:45:43,874
I'm willing to do it, and he takes it

927
00:45:43,896 --> 00:45:46,680
down. and then

928
00:45:46,734 --> 00:45:49,292
because of what Blackthorn says,

929
00:45:49,410 --> 00:45:52,028
fuji ends up killing the gardener.

930
00:45:52,368 --> 00:45:54,792
And Blackthorn doesn't

931
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,452
understand m it at

932
00:45:57,490 --> 00:46:00,410
all. and I feel

933
00:46:00,464 --> 00:46:02,428
like between

934
00:46:03,998 --> 00:46:06,698
this story arc, between the arc with

935
00:46:06,768 --> 00:46:09,708
Marico and Bentoro, and

936
00:46:10,398 --> 00:46:11,898
even confronting,

937
00:46:12,478 --> 00:46:15,290
taranaga at the end and then

938
00:46:15,344 --> 00:46:16,618
having the earthquake,

939
00:46:17,918 --> 00:46:19,628
Blackthorn is really

940
00:46:20,558 --> 00:46:23,306
all of the stability he thought.

941
00:46:23,392 --> 00:46:26,190
What he had here in the last

942
00:46:26,244 --> 00:46:29,008
episode just continues to be

943
00:46:29,378 --> 00:46:32,078
rotated and shaken.

944
00:46:36,438 --> 00:46:37,698
His comfort,

945
00:46:39,288 --> 00:46:41,764
he just finds himself, no,

946
00:46:41,946 --> 00:46:44,548
don't get cozy. You're still the outsider.

947
00:46:46,328 --> 00:46:49,288
You've been around us for a little bit of time.

948
00:46:49,358 --> 00:46:51,498
That doesn't mean you are one of us.

949
00:46:52,668 --> 00:46:55,018
You have so much more to learn.

950
00:46:57,548 --> 00:46:59,978
This is still not where you're from.

951
00:47:00,348 --> 00:47:03,208
You don't understand our rituals

952
00:47:03,288 --> 00:47:05,298
and, our behavior.

953
00:47:09,198 --> 00:47:11,958
>> Will: You'Re right. He's almost

954
00:47:12,048 --> 00:47:14,958
invited to the cookout, but not fully invited to the cookout.

955
00:47:17,618 --> 00:47:20,326
But, yeah, the whole dynamic

956
00:47:20,374 --> 00:47:22,272
there, with blackthorn,

957
00:47:24,262 --> 00:47:26,994
again, picking up a few things, but

958
00:47:27,048 --> 00:47:29,890
still with the broken jap, with his broken Japanese,

959
00:47:29,986 --> 00:47:32,262
like touch die.

960
00:47:33,482 --> 00:47:36,298
As soon as that happened, I was just like, I was worried who was going

961
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,082
to be the person

962
00:47:39,152 --> 00:47:41,442
who would end up,

963
00:47:42,702 --> 00:47:45,658
losing their life over that. Because I was like, this is

964
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,032
not going to end well. with the pheasant,

965
00:47:52,392 --> 00:47:55,108
as you rightly said it, being the gardener, being the

966
00:47:55,130 --> 00:47:57,938
one, that ends up losing his

967
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,630
life over. It really does drive home the

968
00:48:00,636 --> 00:48:03,512
point of what you just said about him.

969
00:48:04,122 --> 00:48:06,786
Don't get too comfortable. even though this,

970
00:48:06,984 --> 00:48:09,902
but also I think it also is helping Blackthorn

971
00:48:09,982 --> 00:48:11,592
come to realize that

972
00:48:12,922 --> 00:48:15,698
this place is slowly becoming

973
00:48:15,730 --> 00:48:18,598
my home too. And I've got to learn how to live in

974
00:48:18,620 --> 00:48:19,592
my new home.

975
00:48:21,752 --> 00:48:24,696
especially as what we saw. I think he

976
00:48:24,734 --> 00:48:27,656
realizes that whenever we get to the end of the episode, after

977
00:48:27,694 --> 00:48:30,628
he saves tornaga with whenever

978
00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:31,482
they have the,

979
00:48:35,642 --> 00:48:36,842
irony, of taking

980
00:48:38,352 --> 00:48:41,196
Fuji's father's swords even

981
00:48:41,234 --> 00:48:43,804
though he was a coward, but doing that act

982
00:48:43,858 --> 00:48:46,428
because understanding the value of those

983
00:48:46,450 --> 00:48:48,622
samurai swords and handing them over,

984
00:48:49,442 --> 00:48:52,014
to Toranaga and Toronaga, recognizing

985
00:48:52,078 --> 00:48:55,036
that, what Blackthorn was doing there. So

986
00:48:55,074 --> 00:48:57,468
I think that really illustrates that point as far as,

987
00:48:57,490 --> 00:49:00,242
like, he's getting there. He's getting there.

988
00:49:00,852 --> 00:49:03,664
>> Sarah : Yeah, definitely. What did you think about

989
00:49:03,718 --> 00:49:05,522
Lord Toranaga in this?

990
00:49:07,092 --> 00:49:09,376
>> Will: Like, as you said last week, he is so

991
00:49:09,414 --> 00:49:12,244
missed. And

992
00:49:12,298 --> 00:49:14,772
his presence does just elevate these

993
00:49:14,842 --> 00:49:17,588
episodes so much

994
00:49:17,690 --> 00:49:19,012
from the very beginning.

995
00:49:21,162 --> 00:49:23,978
when he's dressing down his

996
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,922
son over the actions

997
00:49:27,582 --> 00:49:29,242
that he had undertaken,

998
00:49:31,982 --> 00:49:34,572
and also the interplay that he had with,

999
00:49:39,592 --> 00:49:42,576
again, knowing

1000
00:49:42,704 --> 00:49:45,028
he's playing both sides, and

1001
00:49:45,130 --> 00:49:47,162
Yabashige trying to

1002
00:49:50,332 --> 00:49:53,124
questions him about that, it was his nephew

1003
00:49:53,188 --> 00:49:55,162
who convinced his son,

1004
00:49:56,902 --> 00:49:59,452
to take that action and stuff.

1005
00:50:00,032 --> 00:50:02,862
and just sort of the whole dynamics that played out there

1006
00:50:03,172 --> 00:50:05,968
just, again, this shows that he's on

1007
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:08,802
one level and everybody else is just, like, trying to.

1008
00:50:09,332 --> 00:50:11,382
Just trying to keep up with him.

1009
00:50:16,642 --> 00:50:19,598
>> Sarah : so last week I threw out

1010
00:50:19,620 --> 00:50:22,560
there that I think that, ami is

1011
00:50:22,646 --> 00:50:25,204
the spy. And then you

1012
00:50:25,258 --> 00:50:27,760
mentioned, no, there's a villager

1013
00:50:27,936 --> 00:50:30,708
who you think. So the villager at the

1014
00:50:30,730 --> 00:50:32,742
end, was that who you think it?

1015
00:50:33,832 --> 00:50:36,676
>> Will: Yeah. So I was one for one. I was wrong about

1016
00:50:36,794 --> 00:50:38,916
mataro, but I was right about the spy.

1017
00:50:39,044 --> 00:50:42,042
>> Sarah : Yeah. That's what I kept thinking about. Like, at the end,

1018
00:50:43,772 --> 00:50:46,756
when it's confirmed that that villager.

1019
00:50:46,804 --> 00:50:49,804
I'm like, wait a second. Is that the person that will

1020
00:50:49,858 --> 00:50:52,296
was mentioning? Oh, now we're

1021
00:50:52,344 --> 00:50:54,974
even, on the prediction.

1022
00:50:55,038 --> 00:50:57,586
Granted, there's just

1023
00:50:57,624 --> 00:50:59,252
something about,

1024
00:51:00,572 --> 00:51:03,456
where I don't think it's one spy. I

1025
00:51:03,494 --> 00:51:06,206
really don't. But for all I know, it

1026
00:51:06,244 --> 00:51:09,198
was. It's just a through line to kind

1027
00:51:09,220 --> 00:51:11,954
of drive in this whole dynamic of

1028
00:51:12,088 --> 00:51:14,852
omni who wants to take over

1029
00:51:15,382 --> 00:51:18,162
his uncle's position. His uncle

1030
00:51:18,502 --> 00:51:21,142
playing both sides of this,

1031
00:51:21,642 --> 00:51:24,150
war between Taranaga

1032
00:51:24,246 --> 00:51:26,922
and Ishido, and then

1033
00:51:26,992 --> 00:51:29,958
Toranaga also knowing

1034
00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:33,066
that he has

1035
00:51:33,104 --> 00:51:35,950
this ally who can't be trusted, but

1036
00:51:36,036 --> 00:51:38,926
can still be manipulated, and that's the only reason why

1037
00:51:38,964 --> 00:51:41,870
he's still alive. That's why

1038
00:51:41,956 --> 00:51:44,718
I find his character to be so interesting, is

1039
00:51:44,740 --> 00:51:45,632
just because.

1040
00:51:49,052 --> 00:51:51,642
>> Sarah : Everyone knows who he is.

1041
00:51:53,292 --> 00:51:55,642
He's not a trustworthy person,

1042
00:51:56,332 --> 00:51:58,964
which makes him honestly a trustworthy

1043
00:51:59,028 --> 00:52:01,832
person when you're playing a political game, because

1044
00:52:01,902 --> 00:52:04,812
you're like, at least it's very clear to me

1045
00:52:04,882 --> 00:52:07,644
that I can't trust you, but I also

1046
00:52:07,698 --> 00:52:10,588
know what you want. So in a way, I can. Because

1047
00:52:10,610 --> 00:52:13,552
it's the people who I don't know what they want.

1048
00:52:13,622 --> 00:52:16,448
I can't trust or who I know want the

1049
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:18,162
same thing that I do, which,

1050
00:52:19,322 --> 00:52:21,462
that's Lord Ishibo.

1051
00:52:23,082 --> 00:52:25,912
I love it. And I still.

1052
00:52:27,562 --> 00:52:30,058
It might take me to the very end of the season to

1053
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,906
just continue to say, please go back

1054
00:52:32,944 --> 00:52:35,814
and watch the first episode. This character

1055
00:52:35,878 --> 00:52:38,686
was not dumb in that first episode. So

1056
00:52:38,724 --> 00:52:41,598
what the fuck happened? Because as much as

1057
00:52:41,620 --> 00:52:44,618
I love him, I feel like we're

1058
00:52:44,650 --> 00:52:47,454
getting a different character. And that

1059
00:52:47,508 --> 00:52:50,266
inconsistency is kind of driving me a bit

1060
00:52:50,324 --> 00:52:53,246
crazy, just because we're

1061
00:52:53,294 --> 00:52:56,208
really supposed to, see his nephew as

1062
00:52:56,246 --> 00:52:57,794
being this bright person,

1063
00:52:58,804 --> 00:53:01,568
because he managed to even

1064
00:53:01,766 --> 00:53:04,620
surprise Taranaga and be like, oh, well, he

1065
00:53:04,662 --> 00:53:07,328
played my son. So now I'm going to give him the canon

1066
00:53:07,376 --> 00:53:10,148
regimen and reward him,

1067
00:53:10,186 --> 00:53:13,060
because that's someone who I want as an ally, who's, like a

1068
00:53:13,082 --> 00:53:15,828
trickster. But the nephew did not

1069
00:53:15,866 --> 00:53:18,784
understand what was going on in the first episode. Okay,

1070
00:53:18,954 --> 00:53:21,368
I just can't get over that

1071
00:53:21,566 --> 00:53:24,474
again. It'll probably take me until the very

1072
00:53:25,884 --> 00:53:26,392
right.

1073
00:53:26,478 --> 00:53:27,434
>> Will: You're right on.

1074
00:53:28,844 --> 00:53:31,160
Toronago is like when

1075
00:53:31,182 --> 00:53:33,820
Yabashige was. We'll. I'll discipline him

1076
00:53:33,842 --> 00:53:36,748
for manipulating your son.

1077
00:53:36,866 --> 00:53:39,564
Toranaga is like, no, don't.

1078
00:53:40,644 --> 00:53:42,754
He has given me.

1079
00:53:44,884 --> 00:53:47,696
So when, like, wants to start

1080
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:50,476
war, he's thinking tactically,

1081
00:53:50,540 --> 00:53:53,470
because if we go to Osaka, which, I know we got. Do

1082
00:53:53,476 --> 00:53:55,812
you want us to talk about that and what's going on there?

1083
00:53:56,902 --> 00:53:59,858
They'll take us out, but we're going to make them

1084
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,738
come to us because. And we

1085
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,736
got the, tactical advantage now with these cannons and other things. So

1086
00:54:05,758 --> 00:54:07,210
I thought that was, again,

1087
00:54:08,940 --> 00:54:11,608
everybody else is just doddling around,

1088
00:54:11,774 --> 00:54:14,536
trying to get their little fiefdom, and he's just

1089
00:54:14,558 --> 00:54:17,000
like, I'm going to get the whole empire.

1090
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,716
>> Sarah : But he's been that way. Lord Tarnaga has been

1091
00:54:20,738 --> 00:54:21,950
that way since day.

1092
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:27,468
They. They continue

1093
00:54:27,554 --> 00:54:30,496
to back up what other characters have said about

1094
00:54:30,518 --> 00:54:33,428
him being trickster, and, he continues to

1095
00:54:33,434 --> 00:54:36,084
do that. He has a whole

1096
00:54:36,122 --> 00:54:37,700
speech about ravens,

1097
00:54:39,130 --> 00:54:41,946
and hawks and everything, and

1098
00:54:41,968 --> 00:54:44,806
prey and predators, and it's

1099
00:54:44,838 --> 00:54:45,740
really interesting.

1100
00:54:47,970 --> 00:54:50,720
>> Sarah : He'S definitely needed just because

1101
00:54:51,250 --> 00:54:54,026
everybody else is still figuring out what they're

1102
00:54:54,058 --> 00:54:56,994
doing. They have

1103
00:54:57,032 --> 00:54:59,710
their eye on a prize, but they don't

1104
00:54:59,790 --> 00:55:02,354
really understand what you have to do to get

1105
00:55:02,392 --> 00:55:05,392
there. while Taranaga has not only already

1106
00:55:05,446 --> 00:55:08,390
secured that, but moved on to a different game,

1107
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,138
which brings us to Osaka,

1108
00:55:11,234 --> 00:55:12,950
which simultaneously,

1109
00:55:13,930 --> 00:55:15,240
we're getting some

1110
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:18,954
crossover to say, okay, while this is

1111
00:55:18,992 --> 00:55:21,750
going on over here with Toranaga,

1112
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:24,460
Ishido is having to deal with

1113
00:55:25,390 --> 00:55:28,224
the council. that is in a bit of a

1114
00:55:28,262 --> 00:55:30,800
political disarray.

1115
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,140
And it's just, they're very calmly

1116
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:36,900
arguing,

1117
00:55:39,250 --> 00:55:41,710
which is exactly what

1118
00:55:41,780 --> 00:55:44,722
Tornaga predicts was going to happen,

1119
00:55:44,856 --> 00:55:47,380
was like, okay, I'll just remove myself.

1120
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:50,786
But Ishido, just because I'm no

1121
00:55:50,808 --> 00:55:53,486
longer there, don't think that your quote,

1122
00:55:53,518 --> 00:55:56,294
unquote, allies are suddenly going to

1123
00:55:56,332 --> 00:55:58,790
let you pick a replacement,

1124
00:55:59,170 --> 00:56:01,730
or do things. So,

1125
00:56:04,450 --> 00:56:07,314
what did you think about the council in this

1126
00:56:07,352 --> 00:56:08,420
episode, will.

1127
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:12,690
>> Will: The whole dynamic going on there, where they're

1128
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:15,570
sitting there going back and forth.

1129
00:56:15,910 --> 00:56:18,674
Ashido is not high born. So

1130
00:56:18,712 --> 00:56:21,682
whenever the kayama

1131
00:56:21,746 --> 00:56:24,390
was like, that sea will stink of countryside.

1132
00:56:25,770 --> 00:56:28,040
And I was like. And then,

1133
00:56:29,540 --> 00:56:32,196
Ishido retorts with, that sea will stink of

1134
00:56:32,218 --> 00:56:35,030
Christian. I mean, it was just like the infighting there.

1135
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,190
I was just chewing that scene up because

1136
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:42,656
I just love seeing as predicted

1137
00:56:42,768 --> 00:56:45,576
and why Tornaga, again, was so smart to

1138
00:56:45,598 --> 00:56:48,408
resign. They were just going to devour themselves

1139
00:56:48,574 --> 00:56:50,730
and resort to infighting. And then

1140
00:56:52,940 --> 00:56:54,440
Lady Oshibo

1141
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:58,990
returns, and with the plan,

1142
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,892
she was the x factor there, because her

1143
00:57:02,946 --> 00:57:05,864
son is just waiting to turn 16

1144
00:57:05,912 --> 00:57:08,876
so he could take over, and she's just

1145
00:57:08,898 --> 00:57:11,756
like. She's playing her cards now. As far

1146
00:57:11,778 --> 00:57:14,412
as. Okay with this whole

1147
00:57:14,466 --> 00:57:15,070
situation.

1148
00:57:17,140 --> 00:57:19,884
>> Sarah : I guess my question, I appreciate

1149
00:57:19,932 --> 00:57:22,260
where they ended this episode with her

1150
00:57:22,410 --> 00:57:25,396
basically telling Ishido, bend the

1151
00:57:25,418 --> 00:57:28,302
knee, which Game of Thrones

1152
00:57:28,366 --> 00:57:29,940
callback. Thank you.

1153
00:57:33,130 --> 00:57:34,650
>> Sarah : But I don't.

1154
00:57:37,870 --> 00:57:40,714
I'm trying to understand a.

1155
00:57:40,832 --> 00:57:43,546
Why she thinks she has a lot of power.

1156
00:57:43,728 --> 00:57:46,666
I get it. She's the mother of the heir. I understand

1157
00:57:46,768 --> 00:57:47,420
that.

1158
00:57:50,770 --> 00:57:53,520
And I'm going to say this as a woman. This is a,

1159
00:57:53,970 --> 00:57:55,110
men's, game,

1160
00:58:00,780 --> 00:58:02,090
I guess. Also,

1161
00:58:05,490 --> 00:58:08,266
where I'm confused is Ishido

1162
00:58:08,378 --> 00:58:10,706
wanted her back at the palace in

1163
00:58:10,728 --> 00:58:11,518
Osaka.

1164
00:58:11,614 --> 00:58:12,210
>> Will: Right.

1165
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,122
>> Sarah : So what was his game plan

1166
00:58:15,256 --> 00:58:16,500
for her return?

1167
00:58:17,590 --> 00:58:20,530
>> Will: See, I don't think he saw her as a threat.

1168
00:58:22,670 --> 00:58:25,660
>> Sarah : and then my question is, why? Because

1169
00:58:26,190 --> 00:58:29,114
he seems a bit more tactical. He

1170
00:58:29,152 --> 00:58:31,340
seems like a fair,

1171
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,912
opponent for Toranaga. Maybe

1172
00:58:34,966 --> 00:58:37,732
Toranaga has some edge, but

1173
00:58:37,866 --> 00:58:40,116
there's something about where he was

1174
00:58:40,298 --> 00:58:43,156
pulling the strings in the first episode, where

1175
00:58:43,178 --> 00:58:45,396
I'm like, he had to have some kind of

1176
00:58:45,498 --> 00:58:48,116
reasoning for wanting her to return,

1177
00:58:48,298 --> 00:58:50,496
and also, more importantly, Lord

1178
00:58:50,528 --> 00:58:53,030
Toranaga not wanting her to return.

1179
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,824
>> Will: Yeah. At this point,

1180
00:58:56,942 --> 00:58:58,970
I don't know, to be,

1181
00:59:01,930 --> 00:59:04,694
mean. I think that's intentional. I think they are

1182
00:59:04,732 --> 00:59:07,670
trying to like, and rightly so.

1183
00:59:07,740 --> 00:59:10,040
What are the motivations here? Because

1184
00:59:11,770 --> 00:59:14,600
it was clear when

1185
00:59:15,530 --> 00:59:17,270
the previous Tyco died.

1186
00:59:18,910 --> 00:59:21,642
He drew up this will because he saw where these

1187
00:59:21,696 --> 00:59:23,980
other regents were going to.

1188
00:59:25,140 --> 00:59:28,116
>> Will: So I don't know if the lawyer was

1189
00:59:28,138 --> 00:59:31,076
sort of like, okay, there's got to be. It must be some clause back there that

1190
00:59:31,098 --> 00:59:32,950
he had tucked away in his will

1191
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,172
that, lady Oshida is, like, using

1192
00:59:37,702 --> 00:59:40,498
now she's playing that mean,

1193
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,932
granted, everybody probably would be aware of that

1194
00:59:44,342 --> 00:59:47,122
whenever the regents saw the will

1195
00:59:47,192 --> 00:59:48,802
where they set up to council.

1196
00:59:49,672 --> 00:59:52,092
but, yeah,

1197
00:59:54,722 --> 00:59:56,352
it's a very interesting game.

1198
00:59:58,882 --> 01:00:01,646
I guess Ashido was, like, the calculus I have

1199
01:00:01,684 --> 01:00:04,662
right now is I, know what I've got to deal with. The Christians. I

1200
01:00:04,668 --> 01:00:07,510
know what I got to deal with Tornaga. But now she's this new

1201
01:00:07,532 --> 01:00:10,162
x factor that I wasn't anticipating.

1202
01:00:10,338 --> 01:00:13,242
So I guess we'll see how that all plays out in the

1203
01:00:13,248 --> 01:00:14,566
subsequent episodes.

1204
01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:17,558
>> Sarah : We will. I don't agree that he wasn't

1205
01:00:17,606 --> 01:00:20,506
anticipating her because he wanted her

1206
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,074
back in the castle.

1207
01:00:23,694 --> 01:00:26,606
Yeah. M the

1208
01:00:26,660 --> 01:00:29,370
way they left the episode

1209
01:00:29,482 --> 01:00:32,328
with their conversation, leaves

1210
01:00:32,376 --> 01:00:35,276
me wanting to see the next episode and just

1211
01:00:35,330 --> 01:00:37,856
how that dynamic continues to play

1212
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:40,442
out, in surprising ways,

1213
01:00:40,608 --> 01:00:43,450
because now we have for us as a

1214
01:00:43,472 --> 01:00:45,978
viewer, we're introduced to a brand new

1215
01:00:46,016 --> 01:00:48,936
player, knowing that this

1216
01:00:49,010 --> 01:00:51,680
player is familiar with the

1217
01:00:51,702 --> 01:00:54,656
players that we have gotten to know over the last few

1218
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:55,664
episodes.

1219
01:00:56,284 --> 01:00:59,000
>> Will: and one thought I did have while we were talking about

1220
01:00:59,022 --> 01:01:01,928
it, given that you reminded me that he wanted

1221
01:01:01,966 --> 01:01:04,840
her at the castle, Tornado wanted her away.

1222
01:01:05,022 --> 01:01:07,912
Part of it is that he wanted her and

1223
01:01:07,918 --> 01:01:10,504
the son to be there so they could just have a convenient,

1224
01:01:12,124 --> 01:01:14,114
convenient assassin take him.

1225
01:01:15,044 --> 01:01:17,856
>> Sarah : Right. Which, again, is

1226
01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:20,910
just why I'm like, ishido. Are you going to let her

1227
01:01:20,932 --> 01:01:23,824
talk like that way? Are you supposed to kill her?

1228
01:01:24,434 --> 01:01:25,744
What's going on?

1229
01:01:28,274 --> 01:01:30,004
So, I don't know.

1230
01:01:32,454 --> 01:01:35,204
I'm curious about this, especially

1231
01:01:35,654 --> 01:01:37,764
when I think about how,

1232
01:01:42,244 --> 01:01:44,720
one of his cards might have been

1233
01:01:44,902 --> 01:01:47,596
what was somewhat speculated upon,

1234
01:01:47,660 --> 01:01:50,608
that the heir isn't really the heir

1235
01:01:50,656 --> 01:01:53,414
and is actually Toronaga's son.

1236
01:01:55,464 --> 01:01:57,574
>> Will: Yeah, we've been wondering about that.

1237
01:01:58,984 --> 01:02:01,400
>> Sarah : I cannot pronounce their names. I

1238
01:02:01,422 --> 01:02:04,280
apologize. I can, but I

1239
01:02:04,302 --> 01:02:07,236
also just, like. I get scared,

1240
01:02:07,380 --> 01:02:09,656
but I remember things. Okay.

1241
01:02:09,710 --> 01:02:12,578
>> Will: Yeah, that's a good callback, with their

1242
01:02:12,616 --> 01:02:15,242
conversation when the taiko and Tornado

1243
01:02:15,278 --> 01:02:18,150
were talking about Ashido. That's a good

1244
01:02:18,172 --> 01:02:19,304
callback. Yeah.

1245
01:02:21,434 --> 01:02:24,214
>> Sarah : All right. Well, I think that it is it

1246
01:02:24,284 --> 01:02:27,238
for us tonight. Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can

1247
01:02:27,276 --> 01:02:28,006
find you?

1248
01:02:28,140 --> 01:02:31,068
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on x, formerly known as

1249
01:02:31,090 --> 01:02:32,438
Twitter, at willmpolk.

1250
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:35,132
Willmmpolk.

1251
01:02:35,502 --> 01:02:38,426
>> Sarah : And you can find me there too at SJ Belmont. S j b

1252
01:02:38,464 --> 01:02:41,372
l m m o n t please follow our crew there

1253
01:02:41,902 --> 01:02:44,858
at scene and nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and

1254
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,690
threads at scene, underscore n underscore nerd and

1255
01:02:47,696 --> 01:02:50,436
visit our website ww dot, sceneanderdpod.

1256
01:02:50,604 --> 01:02:53,268
But most importantly, follow and comment on Apple

1257
01:02:53,300 --> 01:02:56,248
podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good

1258
01:02:56,270 --> 01:02:57,222
night. Geek out. You're welcome.