Swords Clash & Mysteries Unravel: Shogun Ep 7 & The 3 Body Problem Deep Dive

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Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont. And

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with me, as always, is our mister producer, will polk. How are you doing

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tonight, will?

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Will: Doing very well, sir. How are you doing this evening? Looking forward

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to talking, some shogun and

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three body problem. I've been getting a lot of people asking me about

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these, about this stuff. that they knew. They knew we

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like talking about these shows on our podcast.

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Sarah : No, no, that's cool. I'm glad

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people are not only enjoying the shows

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themselves, but also enjoying our discussions about

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them. and we will certainly get

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to both shogun and, three

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body problem in a few minutes.

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we first have some news to

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talk about. Starting off,

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Juliet Gardner is cast as a silver

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surfer in the fantastic four.

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Will: Yep.

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Sarah : Great. Cool. and the Joker

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two trailer is coming next week on April

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9, and it's confirmed to be a rated r

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movie. So we will be probably talking

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about that trailer when it comes out next week.

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Will: Yeah, yeah.

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Sarah : And then, the sad news to

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bring up at the start of our show, but

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this tends to happen every now and then, is

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chance. Pardone. Andre from v

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tragically died in a motorcycle accident over the

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weekend. And, thoughts and prayers go

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out to him, his family, and loved ones,

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awake this tragedy and, like, needless to say,

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season two of Gen V is delayed

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indefinitely. So.

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Will: Yeah, yeah, very, very sad thing about

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chance. And, you know, and he was en route

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to Toronto to start. they were going to start

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table reads for season two of Gen v. And,

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yeah, obviously, this

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tragedy completely overshadows anything as far as

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when they go back to. Back to work and stuff. And

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definitely faults and prayers out to

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his family and friends and the cast and

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all this loss.

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Sarah : Yeah, I think it's always difficult in this

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situation because, like,

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somebody died and passed away, but you

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don't know that person, but they are in a

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project that you really love and

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support. And so,

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selfishly, my mind first went to, oh,

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man, that means season two.

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And it's so unfortunate. and then

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it's also the whole theory spiral of,

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well, what are they going to do? How will

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this change the story? What.

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What will the producers decide? Do you do a

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recast? Do you not? It's

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just. It's all up in the air at this point.

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Will: Yeah. Yeah.

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Will: Cause, I mean, it wasn't like he was just a bit player. I mean, he had a

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very integral part of. Of the show, and so.

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Yeah, you don't. I don't envy the

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hard decision that the creative team's gonna have to make

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here with. With what to do moving forward,

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right?

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Sarah : Definitely.

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and so that brings us to,

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shogun, episode seven.

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A stick of time outplayed,

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by new alliances in Ahsoka,

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Terangaga is faced to carve

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out a new deal with a long lost family member.

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So all these people who listen to us talk about a

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show

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and who tell you, do

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you immediately apologize for the butchering of

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names?

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I always. I listen to other people talk about this

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show. I watch the show, and yet

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every time I'm sitting here starting this

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conversation, the moment I get to one of the

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names, I suddenly start to

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question everything. and we haven't even

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got into Yabo Shige. Okay.

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Will: Hey, you nailed it.

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Will: You nailed it.

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Sarah : I know, I know. But it's still.

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It's still like.

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Will: Yeah, I know. I feel that way too.

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Yeah. Sometimes it's like, don't feel bad. It happens.

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And we apologize in advance for

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our western tongues. it

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happens.

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Sarah : It does, it does.

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and sake. He's the half brother, right?

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Will: Correct, correct, correct.

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Sarah : He's the younger half brother.

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Will: Yeah.

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Sarah : what did you think about his character in this episode?

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Will: Wow.

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Will: Well, this whole episode,

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as I know with previous,

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episodes, these titles really do

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a good job of foreshadowing many

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of the major plot points in it.

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As far as the character, he was

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very, very interesting as far as.

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Will: Yeah.

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Will: Thinking about our discussion with episode six

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and the Taiko and

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Lady Ochiba and the whole

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courtesan structure

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and how that really, colored my,

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like, watching of this episode because,

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you know. Yes. he is

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Tornago's half brother,

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younger brother. And when I was thinking of our

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conversation about Lady Oshiba, why she. Why the

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taiko ended up, why her son

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has this station, you know, it's because

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he was. She was a successful person

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to bear an heir. And. And

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so in Toronto's family, you know,

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clearly, you know, his mother definitely was,

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you know, a higher courtesan than in

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this concubine, then his

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half brother here in this episode, which, you know, not

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only the age difference that you have here, but also just the

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power, the. Yes, he's. He is also a

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lord, but because of where things

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fall, his. His rank is a little bit lower

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and station, you know, he got

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the. I guess he got the. The

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province that basically is just over. All

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he does is just overlook the water. He doesn't really have

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any, like, major things going on. So it, was really

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cool, you know, hearing that,

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set up as far as their relationship. And we already knew

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that was they had. They hadn't really

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weren't close and.

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Will: And.

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Will: And to how things unfold in this

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episode. You know, it was a fun

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episode to watch. There's a lot,

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you know, all the action and stuff, especially given how

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things at the end of last week with the

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whole crimson sky thinking it's going to be, we're going to

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have the conflict and stuff. And really, all that

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pretty much didn't really happen until action wise

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and really until the end of the episode. So,

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those are some of my initial thoughts about him as a character.

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Sarah : So I'm confused. Did I miss something? Did they

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explain in the episode that both

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of them come from courtesans?

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Will: This, is something I picked up from, the official

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podcast.

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Sarah : Okay. Okay. Okay. I was. I was just

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sitting here. Like, I did not understand

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that at all.

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Will: Yeah, no, no. But. But it

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did. Well, as I noted before, as I was watching it,

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I was thinking, like, you know,

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yes, they're both lords, but why is tornado like,

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you know, you know, there were things at. When they

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first meet there in the woods and, you know, and.

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And sake, like, talks about the

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lack of action that he's seeing in his

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fiefdom versus what tornaga is dealing with,

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with things going on, there in Edo

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and Izu, where,

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yabashige has, land.

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I just started thinking about all

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the ranks in our discussion last week. And

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then, like I said, as I was listening to the. The, official

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podcast, and they were talking about, the family

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dynamic and all, how that just

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really helped us reinforce

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my gut feelings and

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confirmed why the power structure is set

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up the way that it is within the family.

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Will: Right. But also.

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Will: Yeah, yeah, right.

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Sarah : Okay.

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Will: Yeah.

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Will: And also color some things that we'll get to in a bit as far as, like, what

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was going on at the dinner before. Before the big. Before the

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big reveal there, the Lando

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Calrissian moment.

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Sarah : Well, I don't want to, like, delay that.

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You always do this. You're like, we're gonna get to

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that.

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Will: I want to hear your.

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I want to hear your thoughts, your initial thoughts on the episode before

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we go there.

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Sarah : This episode is fine. I didn't think anything really stood

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out to me. This isn't.

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This. It's fine.

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I just, I'm still trying to articulate

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what I didn't like about this episode.

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and I listened. I didn't listen to the official

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podcast. I listened to Roka's podcast, and,

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his partner on that podcast that after

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show, is a book reader, and

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apparently this episode strays the most from the

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book. And,

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And he hated this episode.

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Will: Well, yeah, you know, honestly, I've stopped listening to.

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I've stopped listening to them, just because

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I wanted to just sort of

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have just formulate my own opinions and

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stuff, not being a book reader. And

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also, you know, I think the. What I like about the official

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podcast, not to get into, like, let's talk about the episode.

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Not the podcast. About the podcast.

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But, they, just keep the counter just straight and

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just fill in the historical gaps

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and give some context for

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things that are transpiring to show. And also the

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official webpage for the show does that. A good

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job of that as well. So we recommend that to folks

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if you are. If you're looking for context

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or things to help help you,

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like, figure out some of the dynamics and stuff going

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on. The, Shogun companion website also

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has some really good things to help

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frame some of these things that are going on in the show.

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Sarah : Right. So, yeah, so he didn't

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like this episode, and, he was

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articulating why and me not being a

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book reader, I found it very interesting because I'm like, I

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didn't read the books, so I didn't realize

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that none of this happened. But I walked away from the

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episode being like, oh, my God. Like,

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we're still stuck in the same situ. Like,

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we're. There was lack of

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progression overall in this episode for me.

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And, I think

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book readers approach this

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episode and just are mad

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about the use of Blackthorn.

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Me, a person who's never liked

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Blackthorn,

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I. I can't say it's because he. Of the

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use of him. I just,

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like, this is just classic

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storytelling. It's like, okay, we're building up

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to a big fight, and it looks like

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everything's going in favor of

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our hero, our main, like, tornaga.

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But now we have to basically take away his

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army. Like, put. Make sure

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his back is up, against the wall as we head into

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the third and final act. Like, you

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like, it's just. It was much more

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like, okay, I know he's going to get out

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of this. I don't know how he's going to get out of this.

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But I also just was like,

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00:11:56.576 --> 00:11:59.554
cool, cool, cool. This. This

260
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feels like a filler. It feels like a filler.

261
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Will: I completely. Yeah, this is gonna be fun tonight. Cause I

262
00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:08.050
completely disagree. I don't think this, but I think there was.

263
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There. I will. I will agree with you that

264
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as far as, like, no progression, I would

265
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agree with Mariko and

266
00:12:16.474 --> 00:12:19.406
Blackthorn. Things did seem kind of stagnant.

267
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They.

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Sarah : See, I thought, one of the most interesting

269
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scenes in the episode.

270
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Will: So, because that scene wasn't

271
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about.

272
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Sarah : Them, it was about Bentaro. But everybody hates

273
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Bentaro for some reason.

274
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Because I just want to say, like,

275
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we got into a deep discussion about

276
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Bentaro and why he

277
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continues to not allow

278
00:12:44.212 --> 00:12:46.072
Mariko her one wish.

279
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And I think everyone should revisit

280
00:12:49.460 --> 00:12:52.052
that discussion based off of the scene in this

281
00:12:52.092 --> 00:12:53.472
episode where, again,

282
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he is faced with this

283
00:12:58.122 --> 00:13:00.826
situation where he wants to kill Blackthorn.

284
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Taranaga is like, I want both of these

285
00:13:03.842 --> 00:13:06.562
people to be alive, so I'm going to

286
00:13:06.602 --> 00:13:09.146
use your wife against

287
00:13:09.234 --> 00:13:11.708
you. And, he said, if

288
00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:14.316
Blackthorn dies, so does Mariko, because they are

289
00:13:14.364 --> 00:13:17.284
both a part of this affair that you are

290
00:13:17.308 --> 00:13:19.842
alluding to. And then Taro

291
00:13:19.972 --> 00:13:22.814
does not give in. He wants to,

292
00:13:22.918 --> 00:13:25.126
but he doesn't. And I think that is so

293
00:13:25.214 --> 00:13:26.174
interesting.

294
00:13:26.318 --> 00:13:27.362
Will: Yeah, it is.

295
00:13:28.462 --> 00:13:29.062
Will: It is.

296
00:13:29.068 --> 00:13:32.060
Will: yeah, I mean, that those. That's definitely, definitely. I'm glad you brought that scene up. Cause

297
00:13:32.076 --> 00:13:34.876
it's definitely one that did stand out

298
00:13:34.964 --> 00:13:37.656
to me in, the episode. And, yeah, there was. You know,

299
00:13:37.696 --> 00:13:40.592
so when I say stagnation as far

300
00:13:40.624 --> 00:13:43.376
as them, I mean, it's more

301
00:13:43.456 --> 00:13:46.344
just like. It was

302
00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:49.336
just like, reinforced

303
00:13:50.196 --> 00:13:52.844
our discussion before and reinforced,

304
00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:55.500
like, the status quo of Black

305
00:13:55.548 --> 00:13:58.504
Thorn, the triangle there. as

306
00:13:58.520 --> 00:14:01.316
far as him wanting to kill Black Thorn,

307
00:14:02.176 --> 00:14:04.356
Tornado is forbidding it, and

308
00:14:04.776 --> 00:14:07.520
Mariko wants to end

309
00:14:07.568 --> 00:14:09.956
things, but Toranaga is

310
00:14:10.336 --> 00:14:13.032
not allowing it. So that's what I meant by

311
00:14:13.144 --> 00:14:16.138
it just felt like it was. That, to me, was where things did

312
00:14:16.162 --> 00:14:19.138
feel status quo. But other parts of the episode,

313
00:14:19.162 --> 00:14:20.926
I felt did progress things

314
00:14:22.106 --> 00:14:23.130
quite a bit.

315
00:14:23.298 --> 00:14:23.666
Will: Yeah.

316
00:14:23.706 --> 00:14:25.954
Sarah : Yeah, you can go on because I

317
00:14:26.050 --> 00:14:28.910
honestly am curious about, what

318
00:14:28.966 --> 00:14:30.082
parts in particular?

319
00:14:30.822 --> 00:14:33.414
Will: Well, I mean. Well, since we did.

320
00:14:33.438 --> 00:14:36.198
Since I did bring up the dinner, I mean, I think the dinner

321
00:14:36.390 --> 00:14:37.024
with, the,

322
00:14:36.974 --> 00:14:37.440
Will: As I.

323
00:14:37.504 --> 00:14:40.136
Will: As I joke, the Lando Calrissian moment, because, you

324
00:14:40.152 --> 00:14:43.040
know, the tornado goes to

325
00:14:43.064 --> 00:14:46.032
his half brother, like, Han Solo goes to bespin

326
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.360
looking for, looking for

327
00:14:48.512 --> 00:14:51.360
refuge from the circumstances

328
00:14:51.432 --> 00:14:54.056
that they're under. And in this case,

329
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:57.032
Toranaga. His army's decimated. He

330
00:14:57.048 --> 00:14:59.856
needs help to do this crimson, crimson sky

331
00:15:00.040 --> 00:15:03.016
plan. And so

332
00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:05.604
he goes to his brother, and of course, his brother,

333
00:15:06.104 --> 00:15:08.164
unbeknownst to Toronaga,

334
00:15:09.104 --> 00:15:11.374
sees now that there's, like,

335
00:15:11.714 --> 00:15:14.570
two vacancies on the. On the

336
00:15:14.682 --> 00:15:16.772
council of regents, due to

337
00:15:17.072 --> 00:15:19.664
tornadoes, you know, resigning. And then, of course, the

338
00:15:19.688 --> 00:15:22.408
other regent getting killed in last week's

339
00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:23.216
episode.

340
00:15:23.334 --> 00:15:26.154
Will: you know, sake, like, sees

341
00:15:26.186 --> 00:15:28.994
the seize just a moment to. To basically

342
00:15:29.066 --> 00:15:31.238
one up his half brother and

343
00:15:31.698 --> 00:15:34.586
gains a foothold on the. On the council, gets a

344
00:15:34.602 --> 00:15:37.378
scene on the council and. And carry out. Carries out the mission

345
00:15:37.418 --> 00:15:39.936
of getting this impeachment

346
00:15:39.992 --> 00:15:42.720
done. So, you know,

347
00:15:42.744 --> 00:15:45.624
so even though it seemed like things were kind of hitting a. Hitting

348
00:15:45.696 --> 00:15:48.688
a wall and tornado is always

349
00:15:48.768 --> 00:15:51.224
figuring out ways out of things,

350
00:15:51.416 --> 00:15:54.392
he. This is that moment where it was just like,

351
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.304
oh, instead of tornado always being

352
00:15:57.336 --> 00:16:00.158
one step of a. First of, What's going on? This was the

353
00:16:00.198 --> 00:16:02.662
first time, I think I felt in this series

354
00:16:02.750 --> 00:16:05.734
where he really doesn't know. He's not one

355
00:16:05.766 --> 00:16:08.230
step ahead of everybody else as far as

356
00:16:08.414 --> 00:16:08.854
right.

357
00:16:08.926 --> 00:16:11.750
Sarah : I mean, that's fair. I think that was the

358
00:16:11.774 --> 00:16:14.614
whole intention of this episode. I mean, again, like I said

359
00:16:14.646 --> 00:16:17.598
before, it's about the purpose is to make

360
00:16:17.638 --> 00:16:20.134
sure that the viewers believe

361
00:16:20.246 --> 00:16:23.158
that there is no way out of

362
00:16:23.198 --> 00:16:26.126
this. The back is up against the wall, everything.

363
00:16:26.262 --> 00:16:29.126
Like, all the plans, plan a, b, and c are

364
00:16:29.142 --> 00:16:31.666
a no go. So it makes sense. I

365
00:16:31.682 --> 00:16:34.172
mean, black thorn's gonna do

366
00:16:34.228 --> 00:16:36.660
something that's gonna help lead to

367
00:16:36.692 --> 00:16:39.374
victory, whatever. so

368
00:16:39.954 --> 00:16:42.530
I guess I just. I understand what you're

369
00:16:42.562 --> 00:16:45.322
saying. I just feel like his.

370
00:16:45.378 --> 00:16:48.146
His army. I keep having to remind myself

371
00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:50.374
when the earthquake happened,

372
00:16:51.514 --> 00:16:54.410
I feel like it's been four episodes and maybe

373
00:16:54.442 --> 00:16:57.034
it's been three episodes, but I'm just

374
00:16:57.074 --> 00:16:59.764
like, what is time right now?

375
00:16:59.924 --> 00:17:02.024
How long have we been here?

376
00:17:03.244 --> 00:17:03.956
Will: Yeah.

377
00:17:04.100 --> 00:17:06.652
Sarah : Yeah. So it just. It felt more like,

378
00:17:06.708 --> 00:17:09.428
okay, we're. You're. You're still trying to figure

379
00:17:09.476 --> 00:17:12.308
out your way out of this situation, because

380
00:17:12.356 --> 00:17:15.292
he. He, like, the. Going to the half brother was a

381
00:17:15.308 --> 00:17:18.140
last ditch effort, so he kind

382
00:17:18.172 --> 00:17:21.100
of didn't want to do that because he kind of knew.

383
00:17:21.292 --> 00:17:23.744
So there's a part of me

384
00:17:24.634 --> 00:17:27.466
that. I mean, I

385
00:17:27.490 --> 00:17:30.466
think Gia said it, or Jin from

386
00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:33.290
the Willow world said it, even to Toron Aga and

387
00:17:33.322 --> 00:17:35.954
implied it. Like, he invited his

388
00:17:35.994 --> 00:17:38.890
brother here, knowing their

389
00:17:39.002 --> 00:17:41.986
relationship, knowing what's going on with

390
00:17:42.010 --> 00:17:42.774
the council.

391
00:17:45.434 --> 00:17:48.218
He's too smart to not think

392
00:17:48.266 --> 00:17:50.674
about that being the

393
00:17:50.714 --> 00:17:53.454
outcome. So it just.

394
00:17:54.074 --> 00:17:56.402
I don't know. I. I don't buy

395
00:17:56.578 --> 00:17:58.978
that. Everything completely took

396
00:17:59.026 --> 00:18:01.134
him by surprise,

397
00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:02.204
so.

398
00:18:02.504 --> 00:18:05.080
Will: Well, and maybe it didn't take him by surprise, but

399
00:18:05.112 --> 00:18:06.992
maybe. But he did seem.

400
00:18:07.088 --> 00:18:09.944
I'm glad you brought up Jim, because I wanted to talk about that

401
00:18:09.984 --> 00:18:12.874
conversation next. it

402
00:18:12.914 --> 00:18:14.654
did seem at this point,

403
00:18:15.554 --> 00:18:18.290
and he was kind of resigned to

404
00:18:18.402 --> 00:18:19.734
his fate after

405
00:18:21.224 --> 00:18:24.160
sake did pull the power play there

406
00:18:24.272 --> 00:18:27.232
and at the dinner and, you

407
00:18:27.248 --> 00:18:30.096
know, handed him the impeachment papers and also

408
00:18:30.280 --> 00:18:32.124
the execution work for,

409
00:18:34.224 --> 00:18:37.044
nagato. Yeah.

410
00:18:37.464 --> 00:18:40.344
Sarah : But we've seen him resign

411
00:18:40.424 --> 00:18:42.800
to his fate in earlier

412
00:18:42.912 --> 00:18:45.690
episodes before they even left Osaka.

413
00:18:45.792 --> 00:18:48.758
Like, he's like, yeah, I'm just going to chill here. You all are going

414
00:18:48.766 --> 00:18:51.462
to leave. And then he snuck his

415
00:18:51.518 --> 00:18:52.874
way out.

416
00:18:53.254 --> 00:18:55.238
Will: Yeah, but see, this time he didn't sneak his way out.

417
00:18:55.286 --> 00:18:58.214
Sarah : He's just like, okay, we don't know that yet. Will

418
00:18:58.334 --> 00:19:01.014
we see, like, we have not watched the next

419
00:19:01.054 --> 00:19:03.942
episode. We don't know. What I'm saying,

420
00:19:04.038 --> 00:19:06.766
though, is like, yeah, he seemed more

421
00:19:06.830 --> 00:19:09.414
resigned, but I think it's all for show. I'm not

422
00:19:09.454 --> 00:19:12.454
buying it. I'm not not buying it

423
00:19:12.494 --> 00:19:15.044
fully because the man has

424
00:19:15.084 --> 00:19:18.076
proven, like, done the stoicness before

425
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:21.060
and yet still had a plan b up

426
00:19:21.092 --> 00:19:23.980
his, up his sleeve. And, and, and he

427
00:19:24.012 --> 00:19:26.828
still, at the end of the day, Tornado

428
00:19:26.876 --> 00:19:29.708
still knows Blackthorn and his

429
00:19:29.756 --> 00:19:32.740
cannons are the

430
00:19:32.772 --> 00:19:35.284
Joker cards up his sleeve. Yeah,

431
00:19:35.364 --> 00:19:38.004
that, like, crimson

432
00:19:38.124 --> 00:19:40.804
sky or not, they, they

433
00:19:40.884 --> 00:19:43.714
still, he still has some

434
00:19:45.134 --> 00:19:47.432
pieces, to move around this board.

435
00:19:47.560 --> 00:19:50.424
So I just, I

436
00:19:50.456 --> 00:19:53.308
guess it just to me,

437
00:19:54.128 --> 00:19:56.624
when I say there was a lack of

438
00:19:56.696 --> 00:19:59.552
movement, I understand how the

439
00:19:59.600 --> 00:20:02.424
episode connects from the previous one to

440
00:20:02.456 --> 00:20:05.224
this one and where the characters are

441
00:20:05.296 --> 00:20:07.828
and the purpose of this episode.

442
00:20:08.128 --> 00:20:10.308
I just feel like it was

443
00:20:11.168 --> 00:20:14.096
kind of like a filler where I'm just like, okay,

444
00:20:14.152 --> 00:20:17.088
well, now we have to get here where all hope is

445
00:20:17.128 --> 00:20:20.008
lost so that we can uprise and get

446
00:20:20.048 --> 00:20:20.788
victory.

447
00:20:21.928 --> 00:20:23.668
Will: Yeah, see, I think fillers.

448
00:20:25.568 --> 00:20:28.440
I see your point. I think fillers and, ah, maybe

449
00:20:28.464 --> 00:20:31.304
it's just because when I hear filler, I just take that as such

450
00:20:31.336 --> 00:20:34.024
an, as a negative connotation with, with an

451
00:20:34.056 --> 00:20:36.920
episode or something, else. I mean, it's

452
00:20:36.944 --> 00:20:39.924
not like thinking back to our arrivers days where we had like

453
00:20:39.956 --> 00:20:42.884
the Flash filler where it's just like just a

454
00:20:42.916 --> 00:20:45.884
junk episode where there's like a bottle show where they're just trying to get

455
00:20:45.916 --> 00:20:48.716
through. I don't, I don't feel like

456
00:20:48.732 --> 00:20:51.508
this. This was, this was not, to me, at least in my

457
00:20:51.548 --> 00:20:54.288
definition of a filler, I didn't feel like.

458
00:20:54.828 --> 00:20:57.244
I don't think it was a filler episode. I mean, I think it

459
00:20:57.316 --> 00:21:00.068
progressed things significantly. Even

460
00:21:00.148 --> 00:21:02.980
foreshadowing in some respect to getting back

461
00:21:03.004 --> 00:21:05.866
to are cop with Jen and Tornaga.

462
00:21:06.002 --> 00:21:08.946
I'm glad you mentioned that because they, you're right.

463
00:21:08.962 --> 00:21:11.730
I mean, Tornado and even Jen are both long

464
00:21:11.794 --> 00:21:14.678
term thinkers. I mean, with Jen, with her proposal

465
00:21:15.458 --> 00:21:17.878
to him, with

466
00:21:18.338 --> 00:21:21.122
wanting to set up a district in Edo to,

467
00:21:21.210 --> 00:21:23.234
you know, and, you know, it is

468
00:21:23.266 --> 00:21:26.234
foreshadowing that that does lead to

469
00:21:26.266 --> 00:21:29.234
the. To the geishas down the line. I mean, because her

470
00:21:29.266 --> 00:21:31.928
corsons are the forerunners of that.

471
00:21:32.958 --> 00:21:35.430
ito basically is the precursor to

472
00:21:35.454 --> 00:21:37.468
Tokyo. so

473
00:21:38.488 --> 00:21:41.440
I see that that's where

474
00:21:41.464 --> 00:21:44.258
I was. Just, like, there's things going that, are

475
00:21:44.298 --> 00:21:47.138
happening here that are moving the story

476
00:21:47.218 --> 00:21:50.078
forward. And even Tornaga

477
00:21:50.458 --> 00:21:53.458
does that whenever he's preparing

478
00:21:53.498 --> 00:21:56.104
for whatever eventuality is going to come his way,

479
00:21:56.266 --> 00:21:59.252
you know, he makes sure he sets aside the land

480
00:21:59.300 --> 00:22:02.108
for her and all that kind of stuff. So things,

481
00:22:02.188 --> 00:22:04.448
to me, it was like things were progressing,

482
00:22:05.948 --> 00:22:06.500
right?

483
00:22:06.604 --> 00:22:09.372
Sarah : So I guess so,

484
00:22:09.540 --> 00:22:11.208
I mean, historically,

485
00:22:14.228 --> 00:22:16.028
I'm just going to move on to the.

486
00:22:16.108 --> 00:22:18.528
To the final point about the willow world,

487
00:22:18.724 --> 00:22:21.584
because I thought it was strange. Well,

488
00:22:22.504 --> 00:22:24.792
I don't know how to explain this point,

489
00:22:24.968 --> 00:22:27.872
but. So Tornaga

490
00:22:27.928 --> 00:22:29.924
writes Jinn into her will,

491
00:22:30.864 --> 00:22:32.604
but this is before

492
00:22:34.464 --> 00:22:37.200
his son decides to try to kill

493
00:22:37.272 --> 00:22:39.696
his uncle in the Willow

494
00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:42.702
world. and so then the question is,

495
00:22:42.758 --> 00:22:45.718
did Jin know about this plan and will she

496
00:22:45.766 --> 00:22:48.434
receive a punishment in the next episode?

497
00:22:49.844 --> 00:22:51.024
Will: I don't think so.

498
00:22:51.644 --> 00:22:51.956
Will: No.

499
00:22:51.980 --> 00:22:54.972
Will: I was gonna say, I think the courtesan now is now Kuki

500
00:22:55.028 --> 00:22:57.964
knew. I think she knew it was one down. But I don't.

501
00:22:58.004 --> 00:23:00.906
I don't think, I don't think. I mean, the only thing Jen

502
00:23:00.970 --> 00:23:03.786
made m. I mean, I guess to your point, Jen might have

503
00:23:03.810 --> 00:23:06.506
known something was going down because she did adjust

504
00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:08.694
her fee for,

505
00:23:10.104 --> 00:23:12.844
Lady Kiku down

506
00:23:13.554 --> 00:23:15.674
so that she could have that

507
00:23:15.834 --> 00:23:18.306
conversation with Toronto. So

508
00:23:18.330 --> 00:23:20.946
that's where the whole stick of time comes from,

509
00:23:21.010 --> 00:23:21.522
is.

510
00:23:21.658 --> 00:23:22.330
Sarah : Yeah.

511
00:23:22.482 --> 00:23:22.834
Will: Yeah.

512
00:23:22.874 --> 00:23:25.658
Will: So maybe that to the. To your point, I mean, maybe she,

513
00:23:25.706 --> 00:23:28.610
you know, she. From their conversation, maybe

514
00:23:28.642 --> 00:23:31.570
she was like. And they both have done

515
00:23:31.602 --> 00:23:34.450
this, like, even with Kiku. Like, I think she said things to

516
00:23:34.482 --> 00:23:37.160
ami, and to. Or maybe

517
00:23:37.272 --> 00:23:40.270
Gia said things to Ami in the past, too, to sort of put plant

518
00:23:40.302 --> 00:23:42.990
seeds in people's minds about stuff. So maybe. Yeah,

519
00:23:43.022 --> 00:23:45.982
maybe that there is. I could give

520
00:23:45.998 --> 00:23:46.702
you that.

521
00:23:46.878 --> 00:23:47.526
Will: Right?

522
00:23:47.670 --> 00:23:50.366
Sarah : Yeah, I guess I'm not

523
00:23:50.430 --> 00:23:53.430
sure what you're. What you're. I'm,

524
00:23:53.462 --> 00:23:56.430
like, glad that you're agreeing with me, but at the same time,

525
00:23:56.462 --> 00:23:59.190
I'm like, I don't know if we're actually agreeing about the same

526
00:23:59.262 --> 00:23:59.874
thing.

527
00:24:00.534 --> 00:24:03.406
Will: Well, no, I agree with you that she may have known

528
00:24:03.430 --> 00:24:06.406
what was going on. I just, But I think, I think fundamentally, we

529
00:24:06.430 --> 00:24:09.334
both are. I think we're at odds in that, whether

530
00:24:09.374 --> 00:24:12.294
or not. And what I was saying to you

531
00:24:12.334 --> 00:24:15.310
was, I don't feel that this was a filler episode.

532
00:24:15.502 --> 00:24:16.062
Will: No, no.

533
00:24:16.118 --> 00:24:18.574
Sarah : I know. We're back there.

534
00:24:18.734 --> 00:24:20.154
Will: Yes, Sarah. I know.

535
00:24:20.734 --> 00:24:23.710
Sarah : Use the word filler again. My God. I

536
00:24:23.742 --> 00:24:26.510
get it. Okay.

537
00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:28.596
Okay. Since this is not a filler

538
00:24:28.660 --> 00:24:31.564
episode, I retract my statement. Good

539
00:24:31.604 --> 00:24:34.190
lord. Talk about.

540
00:24:34.262 --> 00:24:37.214
Because I have, like, I just wanted to talk about

541
00:24:37.254 --> 00:24:39.314
the end, the middle.

542
00:24:39.814 --> 00:24:42.434
So, anything else about this episode?

543
00:24:43.324 --> 00:24:46.212
Sarah : I'm losing. I'm losing track here about

544
00:24:46.260 --> 00:24:47.248
where we're going.

545
00:24:47.908 --> 00:24:50.892
Will: No, it's not. I mean. I mean, I

546
00:24:50.900 --> 00:24:52.876
think we hit most of the major points.

547
00:24:54.176 --> 00:24:57.104
Will: in a roundabout way. I

548
00:24:57.120 --> 00:24:59.346
mean, other than, do you think

549
00:25:00.082 --> 00:25:02.860
that, Nagadaru is dead? Or do you think he.

550
00:25:02.948 --> 00:25:05.068
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

551
00:25:05.252 --> 00:25:07.988
Sarah : Was that. Was that, like, did. Are people

552
00:25:08.052 --> 00:25:09.868
questioning if he's still alive?

553
00:25:10.052 --> 00:25:12.924
Will: I've seen some stuff out there. Yeah, I've

554
00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:15.868
seen some. Yeah, I've seen some stuff out there. But yeah, I think he

555
00:25:15.892 --> 00:25:16.856
sees a goner.

556
00:25:17.196 --> 00:25:20.028
Sarah : We actually witnessed him dying. This

557
00:25:20.092 --> 00:25:21.644
was no bun taro.

558
00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:22.536
Will: Okay.

559
00:25:22.836 --> 00:25:25.744
Will: Maybe that's why people are like, maybe he's still.

560
00:25:25.800 --> 00:25:27.156
Maybe there's a chance.

561
00:25:29.776 --> 00:25:32.168
Sarah : Oh, you guys are not playing the same rules

562
00:25:32.232 --> 00:25:35.190
anymore. okay, are you sure that there's

563
00:25:35.238 --> 00:25:38.110
nothing else? Because you really enjoyed this

564
00:25:38.158 --> 00:25:40.878
episode. So I just want to make sure you get all of your points out

565
00:25:40.902 --> 00:25:41.278
there.

566
00:25:41.382 --> 00:25:43.878
Will: I mean. I mean, I guess as far as

567
00:25:43.942 --> 00:25:45.976
yabushige, I mean, he had.

568
00:25:46.716 --> 00:25:49.480
He's still the, mvp of the show when he has

569
00:25:49.608 --> 00:25:52.240
these moments. Especially, like, with black boring and stuff this week.

570
00:25:52.288 --> 00:25:55.150
But, you know, and also,

571
00:25:55.238 --> 00:25:58.070
you know, he still. The disrespect the poor guy has. I

572
00:25:58.078 --> 00:26:00.958
mean, Tornado, his half brother, like,

573
00:26:00.982 --> 00:26:03.654
is asking for Izu, and they're like, oh, yeah, you can have

574
00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:06.462
it just keeps getting

575
00:26:06.494 --> 00:26:07.306
shit on.

576
00:26:10.486 --> 00:26:13.272
Sarah : Well, he. He is, Is a rat of

577
00:26:13.304 --> 00:26:15.832
some sort. So, yeah, makes sense.

578
00:26:16.024 --> 00:26:18.818
Will: But, No, no, like I said, I think. Yeah, I think this is

579
00:26:18.842 --> 00:26:21.250
definitely, you know, I know sometimes we'll have weeks

580
00:26:21.298 --> 00:26:23.098
where one, of us is.

581
00:26:24.438 --> 00:26:27.308
Feels an episode better than the other. And I think, this is definitely

582
00:26:27.348 --> 00:26:28.328
one of those weeks.

583
00:26:30.988 --> 00:26:33.364
Sarah : Yeah. I mean, I always enjoy

584
00:26:33.516 --> 00:26:36.058
talking, through those points. And

585
00:26:36.098 --> 00:26:39.026
sometimes you convince me, but you, so far, you

586
00:26:39.042 --> 00:26:40.718
have not convinced me of anything.

587
00:26:45.928 --> 00:26:46.174
Will: Yeah.

588
00:26:46.174 --> 00:26:47.398
Will: wasn't trying to.

589
00:26:47.978 --> 00:26:50.598
Sarah : No, I think you were.

590
00:26:51.258 --> 00:26:53.078
I think you always are.

591
00:26:55.318 --> 00:26:57.958
but hey, maybe. Maybe you swayed some of our

592
00:26:57.998 --> 00:27:00.854
listeners who might have started on the beginning,

593
00:27:01.046 --> 00:27:03.888
on my side, on the beginning. But, No, this is

594
00:27:03.928 --> 00:27:06.868
still a good show. I'm not saying it's a bad show.

595
00:27:07.458 --> 00:27:10.434
It's just, at the end of the day, this episode was

596
00:27:10.506 --> 00:27:13.158
nowhere near one of my favorites.

597
00:27:13.898 --> 00:27:16.314
I think one of my problems is

598
00:27:16.426 --> 00:27:18.730
that I think in the first few

599
00:27:18.794 --> 00:27:21.464
episodes, there was,

600
00:27:23.068 --> 00:27:25.868
infighting happening, and then there was

601
00:27:25.908 --> 00:27:28.836
also the larger picture about the world at

602
00:27:28.852 --> 00:27:31.244
the time in Spain and all of these other

603
00:27:31.316 --> 00:27:34.192
countries. And I really thought

604
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:36.864
that was fascinating. But since leaving

605
00:27:36.896 --> 00:27:39.448
Osaka, we've gotten very little of the

606
00:27:39.488 --> 00:27:42.150
Spanish, and their role

607
00:27:42.254 --> 00:27:44.934
in all of this politicking. So.

608
00:27:45.086 --> 00:27:47.766
So that kind of lost some

609
00:27:47.822 --> 00:27:49.708
steam there for me. But,

610
00:27:49.864 --> 00:27:52.732
Will: Yeah, no, yeah, that's a

611
00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:55.644
good point. That's a good point. We haven't seen the Portuguese much, and I think maybe

612
00:27:55.676 --> 00:27:58.300
that's. Maybe some people. Why, as you were

613
00:27:58.324 --> 00:28:01.192
noting, With folks feeling like black

614
00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.784
thorn maybe getting sideline or whatever, that.

615
00:28:03.816 --> 00:28:06.712
That bigger picture as far as it's getting so

616
00:28:06.760 --> 00:28:09.756
insular, I guess, is, what sounds like what

617
00:28:09.772 --> 00:28:12.756
you're saying. And. And the larger. How this plays out in the

618
00:28:12.772 --> 00:28:15.208
larger world is. Is. Definitely.

619
00:28:15.548 --> 00:28:18.540
Has receded some over the

620
00:28:18.564 --> 00:28:19.648
last few episodes.

621
00:28:20.468 --> 00:28:22.528
Sarah : Right. Right. I.

622
00:28:23.188 --> 00:28:26.168
And. But at the same time, I understand why.

623
00:28:26.544 --> 00:28:29.480
Ah, like, it's not. Not making sense. It

624
00:28:29.504 --> 00:28:32.424
just. They're not telling the

625
00:28:32.496 --> 00:28:35.304
stories the way I would want

626
00:28:35.336 --> 00:28:36.828
them to in a way.

627
00:28:38.458 --> 00:28:40.878
Sarah : Or the way that really intrigues me.

628
00:28:41.178 --> 00:28:41.802
Will: So.

629
00:28:41.930 --> 00:28:44.466
Sarah : So on that note, we move to

630
00:28:44.562 --> 00:28:47.436
episode three of, three. Body problem, destroyer

631
00:28:47.484 --> 00:28:49.972
of worlds. Obsessed with their

632
00:28:50.012 --> 00:28:52.844
virtual reality quest, Jin and Jack raced to

633
00:28:52.868 --> 00:28:55.742
solve a complex riddle by. But advancing

634
00:28:55.782 --> 00:28:58.718
to the next level brings harrowing consequences. Will,

635
00:28:58.750 --> 00:29:00.562
what did you think about this episode?

636
00:29:01.302 --> 00:29:02.942
Will: Actually, I want you to go first this time.

637
00:29:03.022 --> 00:29:05.828
Sarah : So a few things about this episode, and, I'm

638
00:29:05.860 --> 00:29:08.708
sorry for the stream of consciousness that is about to

639
00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:11.724
occur, but when we're talking a

640
00:29:11.748 --> 00:29:12.992
show like this,

641
00:29:16.172 --> 00:29:19.170
I don't know. I don't know. So I

642
00:29:19.186 --> 00:29:21.906
found it interesting to watch. I'm so glad

643
00:29:21.954 --> 00:29:24.762
that these two episodes we watched back to

644
00:29:24.802 --> 00:29:25.242
back.

645
00:29:25.362 --> 00:29:26.118
Will: I agree.

646
00:29:27.202 --> 00:29:30.162
Sarah : they answered a lot. A lot

647
00:29:30.202 --> 00:29:32.770
of questions from the first two

648
00:29:32.826 --> 00:29:35.618
episodes. Almost too many

649
00:29:35.690 --> 00:29:37.942
questions, in my opinion.

650
00:29:38.442 --> 00:29:41.202
So, basically, this

651
00:29:41.282 --> 00:29:43.862
episode is mainly about the game,

652
00:29:44.202 --> 00:29:46.986
which will was correct that

653
00:29:47.074 --> 00:29:50.058
it was what's, his face. Evans

654
00:29:50.130 --> 00:29:52.832
is behind the game. we learned about

655
00:29:52.872 --> 00:29:55.456
that. Not a lot of flashbacks in these two

656
00:29:55.504 --> 00:29:58.492
episodes. Just FYI. Not a lot of flashbacks.

657
00:29:58.948 --> 00:30:01.948
especially in this episode. I don't think there's a single flashback in this

658
00:30:01.988 --> 00:30:04.778
episode. so

659
00:30:04.818 --> 00:30:07.518
we learned that Evans is behind the game.

660
00:30:08.398 --> 00:30:10.864
We learn that this,

661
00:30:11.254 --> 00:30:13.926
killed me. I felt

662
00:30:13.982 --> 00:30:16.822
so bad for you, because if anybody

663
00:30:16.870 --> 00:30:19.454
listened to us talk about the first two episodes,

664
00:30:19.566 --> 00:30:22.390
will had a theory about why this was called

665
00:30:22.454 --> 00:30:23.778
three body problem.

666
00:30:24.958 --> 00:30:27.578
And, and in this episode,

667
00:30:28.118 --> 00:30:30.798
it was explained that it's called three body

668
00:30:30.878 --> 00:30:33.458
problem because in the game,

669
00:30:34.378 --> 00:30:36.778
there's a three body problem,

670
00:30:36.938 --> 00:30:39.194
which is basically where

671
00:30:39.386 --> 00:30:42.218
three bodies, it's. You can't

672
00:30:42.258 --> 00:30:43.878
predict what's going to happen

673
00:30:45.258 --> 00:30:47.762
in space when there are three

674
00:30:47.810 --> 00:30:50.570
bodies. Yeah, yeah,

675
00:30:50.634 --> 00:30:53.118
yeah. So, like a three star system,

676
00:30:53.938 --> 00:30:56.930
which, which it's. Until

677
00:30:57.034 --> 00:30:59.794
it's, it's. Then, I think by the end of

678
00:30:59.826 --> 00:31:02.658
it, after they, they figured that out, Jin

679
00:31:02.698 --> 00:31:05.050
figures that out. And then they advanced to level

680
00:31:05.114 --> 00:31:08.092
four. And then they

681
00:31:08.140 --> 00:31:10.958
meet, creepy girl.

682
00:31:11.214 --> 00:31:13.640
so they meet her, and then she

683
00:31:13.704 --> 00:31:16.388
explains that the game

684
00:31:16.888 --> 00:31:19.256
portrays what actually is

685
00:31:19.312 --> 00:31:21.456
happening to the

686
00:31:21.512 --> 00:31:23.336
aliens who,

687
00:31:23.512 --> 00:31:26.400
Wenji in China all those

688
00:31:26.464 --> 00:31:29.256
years ago, basically told them

689
00:31:29.312 --> 00:31:31.936
to come. And here's the coordinates to our earth,

690
00:31:31.992 --> 00:31:34.858
because their earth, their planet,

691
00:31:35.504 --> 00:31:37.520
what are the aliens called? The

692
00:31:37.624 --> 00:31:38.588
Saiti.

693
00:31:39.568 --> 00:31:40.548
Will: Santi.

694
00:31:41.288 --> 00:31:43.880
Sarah : Santi are in on a

695
00:31:43.904 --> 00:31:46.648
planet that is essentially being

696
00:31:46.688 --> 00:31:48.268
played out in this game.

697
00:31:49.528 --> 00:31:52.136
And so they make this

698
00:31:52.192 --> 00:31:55.120
communication with Wenjie, who

699
00:31:55.144 --> 00:31:58.028
invites them, to our planet. Now, here's my

700
00:31:58.068 --> 00:32:00.468
thing. And I'm sure I

701
00:32:00.508 --> 00:32:03.292
probably, I don't think I went

702
00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:05.996
too deep. I don't think I went at all into the next

703
00:32:06.052 --> 00:32:08.876
episode. But in the next episode, it

704
00:32:08.892 --> 00:32:11.828
is explained that it'll take them 400 years to

705
00:32:11.868 --> 00:32:14.700
get here. And

706
00:32:14.724 --> 00:32:17.484
at that point, I immediately thought to myself, I'm

707
00:32:17.516 --> 00:32:20.380
like, why is this so urgent that we

708
00:32:20.404 --> 00:32:23.236
figure this stuff out? We

709
00:32:23.252 --> 00:32:25.964
got 400 years. What's

710
00:32:25.996 --> 00:32:28.924
with. I have a lot of questions about

711
00:32:29.076 --> 00:32:31.908
why scientists are dying and

712
00:32:31.948 --> 00:32:34.654
all this, but like I said, they

713
00:32:34.686 --> 00:32:37.478
answered some, almost too

714
00:32:37.518 --> 00:32:40.502
many questions for me. But at the same time,

715
00:32:40.590 --> 00:32:43.094
there's still, like, some where it's like,

716
00:32:43.286 --> 00:32:44.858
wait, what's happening?

717
00:32:45.254 --> 00:32:47.740
so will, on that

718
00:32:47.804 --> 00:32:50.366
note, what did you think about the whole

719
00:32:50.422 --> 00:32:52.614
explanation about the game, the

720
00:32:52.646 --> 00:32:55.186
santee, and, them

721
00:32:55.242 --> 00:32:57.878
basically killing your least favorite character?

722
00:33:00.428 --> 00:33:02.876
Will: So as far as. Yeah, so if you, if you like the

723
00:33:02.932 --> 00:33:05.686
game, aspect

724
00:33:05.742 --> 00:33:08.702
of the first two episodes, this episode was definitely

725
00:33:08.750 --> 00:33:11.640
for you. and I did like the games and, but

726
00:33:11.664 --> 00:33:14.068
also, but also I think

727
00:33:14.568 --> 00:33:17.144
it did the right thing by

728
00:33:17.336 --> 00:33:19.624
ending the

729
00:33:19.816 --> 00:33:22.776
levels, you know, because I was beginning to wonder, like, you know, are

730
00:33:22.792 --> 00:33:25.755
we going to get a whole season of, like, you know, we're going to keep leveling up

731
00:33:25.771 --> 00:33:28.467
and leveling up and leveling up. And in this episode, they're like,

732
00:33:28.507 --> 00:33:31.315
whenever we do learn

733
00:33:31.411 --> 00:33:34.111
that, we get to level

734
00:33:34.159 --> 00:33:37.103
four. And basically that was like

735
00:33:37.135 --> 00:33:39.975
your invitation to whatever

736
00:33:40.031 --> 00:33:42.909
the group of Santee, cult

737
00:33:43.013 --> 00:33:45.981
followers are. You know, I

738
00:33:45.989 --> 00:33:47.494
don't think they've given him a name yet.

739
00:33:48.657 --> 00:33:51.587
but, so we had resolution. So I

740
00:33:51.587 --> 00:33:54.462
was like, okay, fair enough. no more. You know,

741
00:33:54.574 --> 00:33:57.510
we. We learned, you know, they get confirmation to our theory

742
00:33:57.558 --> 00:34:00.558
last week that Evans was behind the game.

743
00:34:00.742 --> 00:34:03.630
And, you know, as far as the three body problem

744
00:34:03.718 --> 00:34:06.374
thing, what I was. Well, I was going to get into the

745
00:34:06.390 --> 00:34:09.346
science about that last week, and I think I touched on it some,

746
00:34:09.686 --> 00:34:12.576
which, they did. But they did really flesh it out and explain

747
00:34:12.616 --> 00:34:15.458
it. you know, I know they mentioned it in episode two last

748
00:34:15.522 --> 00:34:18.474
week with the sun, Jupiter and Earth, using

749
00:34:18.530 --> 00:34:20.726
Jupiter as an, you know, using the sun as

750
00:34:21.746 --> 00:34:24.714
an antenna to, like, magnify the signal

751
00:34:24.810 --> 00:34:27.366
that Wenjie, you know, ended up doing.

752
00:34:27.722 --> 00:34:30.688
but then this week, they, you know, they really got into it,

753
00:34:30.712 --> 00:34:33.528
you know, got into the whole classic physics, newtonian physics

754
00:34:33.592 --> 00:34:35.992
of what, you know, the scientific

755
00:34:36.064 --> 00:34:38.636
explanation of what it is. But also,

756
00:34:39.416 --> 00:34:42.252
you know, in the context of the game, as far as

757
00:34:42.424 --> 00:34:45.388
when Jen and Jack,

758
00:34:45.452 --> 00:34:48.276
you know, really learned what the true purpose of the game was, which

759
00:34:48.316 --> 00:34:51.268
was, you know, and, you know, we've gotten sprinkles of it

760
00:34:51.292 --> 00:34:54.076
where they were, you know, where they were really

761
00:34:54.116 --> 00:34:56.788
exploring, you know, what's stronger? Is it mysticism,

762
00:34:56.852 --> 00:34:59.714
religion? Or is science, you know, as far

763
00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:02.714
as these challenges within the game, and then once they figure out what

764
00:35:02.730 --> 00:35:05.562
the true motivations of the game was

765
00:35:05.674 --> 00:35:08.578
and the purpose for it, I agree with you

766
00:35:08.602 --> 00:35:11.378
that it was really good to watch three and four together

767
00:35:11.442 --> 00:35:14.206
because they definitely complemented each other.

768
00:35:14.172 --> 00:35:15.792
watching these two as a unit.

769
00:35:16.332 --> 00:35:19.108
Sarah : Right, right. I

770
00:35:19.220 --> 00:35:22.084
still. Because I still.

771
00:35:22.268 --> 00:35:23.752
I mean, the

772
00:35:24.572 --> 00:35:27.512
winjay's daughter, Vera, dies,

773
00:35:28.612 --> 00:35:31.498
and, she kills herself. It's

774
00:35:31.530 --> 00:35:33.662
very clear. She kills herself.

775
00:35:34.428 --> 00:35:37.384
and she talks about God. Now, we're

776
00:35:37.448 --> 00:35:40.132
still not sure, because

777
00:35:40.832 --> 00:35:42.752
here's what I'm trying to get at.

778
00:35:42.872 --> 00:35:44.472
Will: Yeah. Okay.

779
00:35:44.512 --> 00:35:47.160
Sarah : Hear me out. When Jay

780
00:35:47.256 --> 00:35:50.232
gives the headset to

781
00:35:50.312 --> 00:35:53.012
Jin, and he tells her,

782
00:35:53.472 --> 00:35:55.872
Vera has been obsessed with this

783
00:35:55.912 --> 00:35:58.802
game. I don't know where it came from.

784
00:35:58.882 --> 00:36:01.090
Blah, blah, blah, lie, lie, lie.

785
00:36:01.226 --> 00:36:01.834
Will: Right.

786
00:36:01.978 --> 00:36:04.978
Sarah : And. And just invites her. Now,

787
00:36:05.050 --> 00:36:07.562
we also know that Jack

788
00:36:07.722 --> 00:36:10.386
can't wear that headset because he wasn't

789
00:36:10.434 --> 00:36:13.146
invited. Yeah, I don't think

790
00:36:13.194 --> 00:36:15.142
Vera was playing that game.

791
00:36:15.442 --> 00:36:17.634
Will: I agree. Especially when we saw

792
00:36:17.778 --> 00:36:20.338
whenever Auggie tried the game,

793
00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:23.358
and she got the same, you know, same results that

794
00:36:23.374 --> 00:36:24.210
Jack did.

795
00:36:24.730 --> 00:36:25.650
Sarah : Right, right.

796
00:36:25.730 --> 00:36:26.346
Will: It just.

797
00:36:26.458 --> 00:36:29.458
Sarah : It doesn't. It. I think

798
00:36:29.594 --> 00:36:32.226
Jack couldn't play the game until he actually

799
00:36:32.338 --> 00:36:35.210
received one. And I keep thinking

800
00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:37.150
about the way Vera died.

801
00:36:38.890 --> 00:36:41.360
I m don't, It seems like

802
00:36:41.900 --> 00:36:44.540
with the game, because they're being recruited,

803
00:36:44.700 --> 00:36:47.196
they're being sussed out through the

804
00:36:47.228 --> 00:36:49.920
game to join this culture.

805
00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:52.848
And. And,

806
00:36:52.894 --> 00:36:55.538
And then if. If they fail,

807
00:36:56.478 --> 00:36:58.458
and especially if they fail,

808
00:36:58.998 --> 00:37:01.862
well, in Jack's case, especially if they learn

809
00:37:01.910 --> 00:37:04.830
really what's going on here, well, then

810
00:37:04.854 --> 00:37:07.158
you got to go. And so they, they send

811
00:37:07.198 --> 00:37:10.118
Tatiana after your ass and. And she kills you.

812
00:37:10.158 --> 00:37:12.830
And despite being watched by the

813
00:37:12.854 --> 00:37:15.706
police abled

814
00:37:15.802 --> 00:37:18.770
Clarence. I just. I love how they show.

815
00:37:18.874 --> 00:37:21.682
Like, in the fourth episode, I kept thinking

816
00:37:21.730 --> 00:37:23.958
about how Clarence was right outside

817
00:37:24.658 --> 00:37:27.082
Jack's house as he's brutally

818
00:37:27.170 --> 00:37:30.114
murdered. And then he's. He's sitting there telling

819
00:37:30.146 --> 00:37:32.890
Jen, but don't worry, I'll be right outside.

820
00:37:32.994 --> 00:37:35.398
You're gonna be fine. Like,

821
00:37:36.258 --> 00:37:38.986
where were you when Jim. Let's just

822
00:37:39.122 --> 00:37:40.198
go back there.

823
00:37:40.574 --> 00:37:42.368
so, so

824
00:37:42.828 --> 00:37:45.488
anyways, so with Vera,

825
00:37:45.988 --> 00:37:48.292
I feel like she was going through what

826
00:37:48.340 --> 00:37:51.180
Auggie went through with the

827
00:37:51.204 --> 00:37:54.108
countdown, which we. Augie is. Has

828
00:37:54.148 --> 00:37:56.708
a very small part in these two

829
00:37:56.748 --> 00:37:59.550
episodes, which I found interesting. It was much more focused

830
00:37:59.574 --> 00:38:02.138
on Jin and Jack in the game,

831
00:38:02.734 --> 00:38:05.516
because with Augie, we do see her turn back

832
00:38:05.572 --> 00:38:08.084
on her. Her work, and

833
00:38:08.116 --> 00:38:11.060
immediately the countdown resumes, and so she

834
00:38:11.084 --> 00:38:14.028
shuts it down again. Like, this isn't something

835
00:38:14.148 --> 00:38:16.972
like she can step away from and then

836
00:38:17.020 --> 00:38:19.836
return to. No, she. Somehow

837
00:38:19.932 --> 00:38:22.474
she's been, tied to this

838
00:38:22.546 --> 00:38:25.224
thing. and so, and so,

839
00:38:25.296 --> 00:38:28.008
anyway, I just. I just felt like bringing that

840
00:38:28.048 --> 00:38:29.588
up about us.

841
00:38:30.468 --> 00:38:33.076
Will: No, that's a good point, because especially with all these

842
00:38:33.132 --> 00:38:36.084
scientists. I mean, there's another 32 have

843
00:38:36.116 --> 00:38:38.544
died in the past few months. M.

844
00:38:38.858 --> 00:38:41.498
and we're seeing, you know,

845
00:38:41.538 --> 00:38:42.118
and

846
00:38:44.178 --> 00:38:46.962
Vera was one, and then now we're seeing it with

847
00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:49.970
Auggie and I guess. And

848
00:38:50.074 --> 00:38:52.562
I know we'll probably learn more

849
00:38:52.690 --> 00:38:55.514
about why this is

850
00:38:55.546 --> 00:38:57.818
happening, you know, and. And

851
00:38:59.478 --> 00:39:02.414
thinking about, like with you made a great

852
00:39:02.446 --> 00:39:04.858
point about Jen and

853
00:39:06.198 --> 00:39:09.086
win, Jay lying to Jen about the game. And

854
00:39:09.102 --> 00:39:11.956
then later, when she's. When Jen is

855
00:39:11.972 --> 00:39:14.916
being recruited, they, like, used sort of similar

856
00:39:14.972 --> 00:39:17.780
parallels as far as. Between Wen,

857
00:39:17.804 --> 00:39:20.740
Jay and Jen, as far as losing their fathers, you know,

858
00:39:20.764 --> 00:39:21.688
losing their family.

859
00:39:21.998 --> 00:39:24.698
Will: you know, at least, you know, granted,

860
00:39:25.438 --> 00:39:28.006
Winjay lost her dad, you know, in a. In the

861
00:39:28.022 --> 00:39:30.504
cultural revolution, but Jen,

862
00:39:31.100 --> 00:39:33.666
losing her family and, you know,

863
00:39:33.842 --> 00:39:36.842
through floods, but just trying to find that, you

864
00:39:36.850 --> 00:39:39.802
know, that I guess that kindred common bond of.

865
00:39:39.930 --> 00:39:42.546
Of loss. And

866
00:39:42.722 --> 00:39:43.674
I don't think.

867
00:39:43.786 --> 00:39:46.586
Sarah : I don't think it's trying to find that. It's trying to find a

868
00:39:46.682 --> 00:39:49.108
weakness and a point of manipulation.

869
00:39:49.728 --> 00:39:50.064
Will: Yeah.

870
00:39:50.096 --> 00:39:52.824
Will: And that's where I was going with that, is that they use

871
00:39:52.856 --> 00:39:55.188
that. They figured she was susceptible

872
00:39:56.168 --> 00:39:59.040
to being in this movement.

873
00:39:59.104 --> 00:40:01.872
And I guess they thought Jack was too,

874
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:03.948
but they miscalculated with him and.

875
00:40:04.448 --> 00:40:07.312
Sarah : No, sorry. I was just gonna say, I don't think

876
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:10.080
they miscalculated. I think they knew all

877
00:40:10.104 --> 00:40:10.668
along.

878
00:40:12.448 --> 00:40:15.048
Will: So. And I guess. And I bring that

879
00:40:15.088 --> 00:40:18.016
up because, I'm just trying to

880
00:40:18.032 --> 00:40:20.496
figure out, like, with these 32 now,

881
00:40:20.552 --> 00:40:23.440
Jack, you know, now the Oxford five has become the Oxford

882
00:40:23.504 --> 00:40:26.504
four, and maybe three, depending on if we lose will

883
00:40:26.536 --> 00:40:27.588
or not this season.

884
00:40:27.854 --> 00:40:28.294
Will: Is.

885
00:40:28.406 --> 00:40:30.774
Will: Is Asante behind this

886
00:40:30.886 --> 00:40:33.534
or behind what?

887
00:40:33.726 --> 00:40:36.074
Behind these scientists deaths or,

888
00:40:36.024 --> 00:40:36.212
Will: Or.

889
00:40:36.260 --> 00:40:39.252
Will: Well, maybe not directly behind it, but I guess. I

890
00:40:39.260 --> 00:40:41.940
guess Evans and Wenj are just because they're

891
00:40:42.044 --> 00:40:44.908
maybe a threat to, like, their

892
00:40:44.948 --> 00:40:45.568
goals.

893
00:40:46.464 --> 00:40:48.756
Sarah : M right. Right. We

894
00:40:48.852 --> 00:40:51.540
still. We have barely.

895
00:40:51.604 --> 00:40:54.364
And this is actually a good segue to get into

896
00:40:54.476 --> 00:40:57.204
the. The big parts of episode

897
00:40:57.236 --> 00:41:00.008
four. Our lord, I think,

898
00:41:01.148 --> 00:41:04.020
to your point, maybe not directly connected to

899
00:41:04.044 --> 00:41:06.388
the Sante, of course, because they're

900
00:41:06.468 --> 00:41:09.156
400 years away from arriving

901
00:41:09.252 --> 00:41:11.698
officially, but at the same time. Time,

902
00:41:12.518 --> 00:41:14.614
they have been able to

903
00:41:14.806 --> 00:41:17.458
provide some sort of technology,

904
00:41:18.398 --> 00:41:21.046
some sort of thing,

905
00:41:21.102 --> 00:41:24.006
because you got Tatiana walking all over the place

906
00:41:24.062 --> 00:41:26.706
and then erasing, CCTV

907
00:41:26.842 --> 00:41:28.958
footage. So

908
00:41:30.338 --> 00:41:33.282
there's clearly been a transference

909
00:41:33.410 --> 00:41:35.838
of technology, at the least

910
00:41:36.138 --> 00:41:38.130
up to Evans and

911
00:41:38.194 --> 00:41:40.946
Wenjie, that allows them

912
00:41:41.082 --> 00:41:41.758
to,

913
00:41:44.168 --> 00:41:47.114
use that in terms of protection. and there's

914
00:41:47.154 --> 00:41:49.454
been enough of it over the years

915
00:41:50.354 --> 00:41:53.266
where we see Wenjie basically tell them,

916
00:41:53.330 --> 00:41:56.194
like, you're only, like,

917
00:41:56.234 --> 00:41:59.210
I'm only here talking to you, because they're allowing that

918
00:41:59.242 --> 00:42:02.202
to happen. I found it very

919
00:42:02.378 --> 00:42:04.664
interesting, the

920
00:42:04.712 --> 00:42:07.408
subtle. Now, I'm going to say

921
00:42:07.464 --> 00:42:09.820
this while at the same time,

922
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:12.928
considering this episode is called our Lord.

923
00:42:13.064 --> 00:42:15.900
Like, so far in the first four episodes,

924
00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:19.400
they have been toying with

925
00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:21.860
religious motifs and metaphors.

926
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.280
I just hope that in the next four episodes,

927
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:28.100
they don't go overboard.

928
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:32.382
Like. Like, I just.

929
00:42:32.486 --> 00:42:35.350
I mean, they kind of are starting to.

930
00:42:35.430 --> 00:42:38.014
I mean, the fact that the ship, the oil rig

931
00:42:38.062 --> 00:42:40.518
that the whole cult basically lives

932
00:42:40.574 --> 00:42:43.494
on is called judgment Day. I'm like,

933
00:42:43.662 --> 00:42:44.254
really?

934
00:42:44.382 --> 00:42:45.050
Will: Really?

935
00:42:46.490 --> 00:42:49.410
Sarah : But it's also. I mean,

936
00:42:49.450 --> 00:42:52.282
besides this transference of technology we learn at

937
00:42:52.306 --> 00:42:55.090
the end of episode three and

938
00:42:55.130 --> 00:42:57.484
throughout episode four, is that

939
00:42:57.572 --> 00:43:00.308
Evans, he's. He's.

940
00:43:00.364 --> 00:43:03.252
He prides himself on reading stories

941
00:43:03.396 --> 00:43:06.276
to the Lord. And,

942
00:43:06.226 --> 00:43:09.202
he started with Hansel and Gretel, and then he

943
00:43:09.274 --> 00:43:12.042
made the awful mistake of reading Red

944
00:43:12.074 --> 00:43:13.046
Riding Hood.

945
00:43:16.506 --> 00:43:18.748
And, And initially with Hansel and

946
00:43:18.772 --> 00:43:21.646
Gretel, our Lord, who's. Who's

947
00:43:21.686 --> 00:43:24.506
the same voice. The voice that he hears,

948
00:43:25.022 --> 00:43:27.776
from the Sante is the same voice

949
00:43:27.896 --> 00:43:30.064
that is heard in the game itself.

950
00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:30.856
Will: Yep.

951
00:43:30.976 --> 00:43:33.302
Sarah : The female voice. And,

952
00:43:33.956 --> 00:43:36.796
in response to her questions about

953
00:43:36.876 --> 00:43:39.486
Hansel and Gretel, he explains,

954
00:43:39.782 --> 00:43:42.552
that humans have a lack of fear. And then

955
00:43:42.664 --> 00:43:44.990
she goes on and says, a lack of fear leads to

956
00:43:45.048 --> 00:43:47.642
distinction. Humanity must learn to fear

957
00:43:47.674 --> 00:43:50.610
again. And just when he thought it was

958
00:43:50.658 --> 00:43:53.458
dark, then it gets a bit darker.

959
00:43:53.602 --> 00:43:56.458
As. As he. I

960
00:43:56.482 --> 00:43:58.978
don't know why Evans thought this was a good idea.

961
00:43:59.082 --> 00:44:01.970
Like, I'm just gonna go ahead and explain

962
00:44:02.018 --> 00:44:04.954
to them what lying means and admits that I lie

963
00:44:05.010 --> 00:44:07.786
sometimes, too. Oh, wait. Humans

964
00:44:07.826 --> 00:44:10.698
lie. It's a trait we

965
00:44:10.722 --> 00:44:13.346
don't understand. What do you mean? What is this

966
00:44:13.386 --> 00:44:15.846
concept of lying? To deceive.

967
00:44:16.576 --> 00:44:17.192
Will: Yeah.

968
00:44:17.304 --> 00:44:18.058
Sarah : Oh, my God.

969
00:44:18.178 --> 00:44:20.530
Will: Oh, God. Yeah, that one through.

970
00:44:20.714 --> 00:44:23.202
Sarah : Well, they are 400

971
00:44:23.330 --> 00:44:26.034
years away from getting here.

972
00:44:26.106 --> 00:44:29.098
Will: 400 years away. But somehow. But they have the technology

973
00:44:29.258 --> 00:44:31.978
to, like, talk to the, you know, the Lord can talk to

974
00:44:32.018 --> 00:44:34.834
us instantaneously, and they

975
00:44:34.866 --> 00:44:36.362
could create these games and.

976
00:44:36.490 --> 00:44:39.450
Sarah : Yeah, but it has been. I mean, it

977
00:44:39.474 --> 00:44:42.034
took six years for Wenjie to get a

978
00:44:42.066 --> 00:44:44.198
response from her first message.

979
00:44:44.598 --> 00:44:46.918
So since then, the

980
00:44:46.998 --> 00:44:49.734
communication, I'll buy. I do agree

981
00:44:49.806 --> 00:44:52.446
with you. They will.

982
00:44:52.582 --> 00:44:55.198
Why do you have all this technology if they're not here

983
00:44:55.238 --> 00:44:58.158
yet? And it's also going to take them so long to

984
00:44:58.198 --> 00:45:00.838
get here? And also, why

985
00:45:00.958 --> 00:45:03.658
are so many scientists dying now,

986
00:45:03.998 --> 00:45:06.774
even though it's going to take years for them to

987
00:45:06.806 --> 00:45:07.342
get here?

988
00:45:07.390 --> 00:45:10.150
Will: Like, maybe, maybe the

989
00:45:10.174 --> 00:45:12.998
santee are, like, killing these science, you know, because, like, for example,

990
00:45:13.038 --> 00:45:15.334
auggies work. I mean, we saw like, this, not this

991
00:45:15.366 --> 00:45:18.342
microfiber. They're, they fit there.

992
00:45:18.510 --> 00:45:19.694
Will: It's a threat.

993
00:45:19.806 --> 00:45:22.658
Will: I mean, because by the time they get here,

994
00:45:23.158 --> 00:45:26.094
they, you know, whereas now we're just little, you know, we're

995
00:45:26.126 --> 00:45:27.538
just. We're sheep.

996
00:45:27.958 --> 00:45:30.458
Sarah : Oh, I totally understand.

997
00:45:30.958 --> 00:45:31.574
Will: Yeah.

998
00:45:31.686 --> 00:45:32.338
Sarah : Why.

999
00:45:32.798 --> 00:45:33.366
Will: Yeah.

1000
00:45:33.462 --> 00:45:36.218
Sarah : I just don't quite get how.

1001
00:45:37.678 --> 00:45:40.646
Will: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I get

1002
00:45:40.662 --> 00:45:43.550
that. I do get some of the how, but I think it gets to

1003
00:45:43.574 --> 00:45:46.430
what, you know, the. Some of the fear element,

1004
00:45:46.524 --> 00:45:47.848
that you're the.

1005
00:45:49.218 --> 00:45:51.938
That the santi were trying to get across

1006
00:45:52.018 --> 00:45:53.558
to Evans there,

1007
00:45:55.078 --> 00:45:57.458
that the humans must learn to fear again.

1008
00:45:57.774 --> 00:46:00.768
because I guess it gets into

1009
00:46:00.808 --> 00:46:03.584
that whole thing looking through the eyes of God and

1010
00:46:03.776 --> 00:46:06.440
the religion element, like you noted, they are

1011
00:46:06.464 --> 00:46:09.184
essentially God. They're doing these things maybe

1012
00:46:09.256 --> 00:46:11.416
to kill these scientists and stuff, to just

1013
00:46:11.592 --> 00:46:14.360
one, keep the people who are doing all

1014
00:46:14.384 --> 00:46:17.116
these, masterful things as physics

1015
00:46:17.172 --> 00:46:19.820
and metallurgy and all these things and

1016
00:46:19.844 --> 00:46:22.804
science from keep, you know, basically help

1017
00:46:22.836 --> 00:46:24.964
keep. Keep human humanity in their place.

1018
00:46:25.156 --> 00:46:27.828
Sarah : So maybe. But they also

1019
00:46:27.908 --> 00:46:30.628
don't seem to understand a lot about humanity

1020
00:46:30.708 --> 00:46:33.500
as we're learning through Evans. And he's

1021
00:46:33.564 --> 00:46:36.324
been telling them these stories. So I

1022
00:46:36.356 --> 00:46:38.756
don't, I don't think it's the Santi who are

1023
00:46:38.812 --> 00:46:41.798
necessarily like saying, oh, these

1024
00:46:41.838 --> 00:46:44.414
guys have to go because they're going to be a threat and all

1025
00:46:44.446 --> 00:46:47.374
that. I view it more as Wen J and Evans

1026
00:46:47.446 --> 00:46:49.862
who have identified these

1027
00:46:49.910 --> 00:46:52.806
scientists as being the threat. They

1028
00:46:52.862 --> 00:46:55.698
communicate that to them. And then

1029
00:46:56.238 --> 00:46:59.206
through some mechanism that I'm sure we're going to

1030
00:46:59.222 --> 00:47:02.058
get the answer to within the next two episodes,

1031
00:47:03.038 --> 00:47:05.574
they receive the technology that

1032
00:47:05.606 --> 00:47:08.518
allows them to protect and to

1033
00:47:08.938 --> 00:47:11.922
minimize scientists scientific

1034
00:47:12.050 --> 00:47:15.020
advancement. which, but then.

1035
00:47:15.204 --> 00:47:18.140
Will: Yeah, well, yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up. And I

1036
00:47:18.164 --> 00:47:21.124
thought about the first episode. It goes back to that first, that

1037
00:47:21.156 --> 00:47:23.488
moment when she is like

1038
00:47:23.868 --> 00:47:25.448
sitting there and she's

1039
00:47:26.468 --> 00:47:28.980
pondering whether or not to hit send on that message

1040
00:47:29.044 --> 00:47:31.988
because, you know, because of, because of

1041
00:47:32.028 --> 00:47:35.024
all the things that she has been through up to that point

1042
00:47:35.136 --> 00:47:37.944
and her feelings about humanity. And then you think

1043
00:47:37.976 --> 00:47:40.028
about Evans, whereas

1044
00:47:40.728 --> 00:47:43.664
whenever they, in this episode, we, you know, we

1045
00:47:43.696 --> 00:47:46.488
see how they reconnect. You know, of course, when we first meet Evans,

1046
00:47:46.608 --> 00:47:49.400
you know, he's the young idealist who just happens to have an

1047
00:47:49.464 --> 00:47:52.350
old tycoon for her father. and then fast, you know,

1048
00:47:52.374 --> 00:47:54.774
they meet in the eighties and now he's the old

1049
00:47:54.806 --> 00:47:57.666
tycoon and he, you know, he's like, yeah,

1050
00:47:57.682 --> 00:48:00.570
I'm, I'm still, I'm still the billy, I'm a billionaire, but I'm

1051
00:48:00.594 --> 00:48:03.394
a billionaire who, who's going to do

1052
00:48:03.426 --> 00:48:06.258
right with his money and still have, I'm still that idealist you met

1053
00:48:06.298 --> 00:48:08.770
who wanted to build the trees in the forest and

1054
00:48:08.794 --> 00:48:09.438
stuff.

1055
00:48:10.418 --> 00:48:11.758
Will: But at the same time,

1056
00:48:12.778 --> 00:48:14.498
you're doing.

1057
00:48:14.538 --> 00:48:17.362
Will: All these other things that I guess trying to be a

1058
00:48:17.370 --> 00:48:20.234
benevolent baron. But I mean, those things are kind of like

1059
00:48:20.266 --> 00:48:21.198
oxymoron.

1060
00:48:22.018 --> 00:48:24.952
Sarah : Well, they, both of

1061
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:27.760
them, Evans, we don't, we

1062
00:48:27.784 --> 00:48:30.672
don't fully know because we've spent way more

1063
00:48:30.720 --> 00:48:33.576
time with Wenjie, especially in her past. And what

1064
00:48:33.632 --> 00:48:35.828
led her to push send.

1065
00:48:36.708 --> 00:48:39.668
and she at that point was like, well, f

1066
00:48:39.708 --> 00:48:42.604
you guys, I know how to use this technology. I'm going to use it.

1067
00:48:42.636 --> 00:48:45.468
I'm going to take the side of them because they're going to wipe your asses

1068
00:48:45.508 --> 00:48:47.988
out. Like, fuck

1069
00:48:48.028 --> 00:48:48.608
you.

1070
00:48:51.218 --> 00:48:54.138
And then personally,

1071
00:48:54.218 --> 00:48:57.218
I just think she wanted to, like, fuck Evans.

1072
00:48:57.298 --> 00:48:58.278
So she.

1073
00:48:59.258 --> 00:49:02.186
Will: Well, they do. I mean, you know, whenever they started, whenever they

1074
00:49:02.202 --> 00:49:04.718
kissed, I was like, oh, so I guess this is Vera's father.

1075
00:49:05.898 --> 00:49:08.730
Sarah : Well, see, I still question that

1076
00:49:08.914 --> 00:49:11.688
just, Because he didn't stay at the funeral.

1077
00:49:11.768 --> 00:49:14.524
And also, Wade

1078
00:49:14.676 --> 00:49:16.968
didn't know about.

1079
00:49:18.338 --> 00:49:20.978
Wade didn't know, really, the connection

1080
00:49:21.058 --> 00:49:24.050
between Evans, at least from what I understood from

1081
00:49:24.074 --> 00:49:26.898
the first episode, that at the time, Wade did not understand

1082
00:49:26.978 --> 00:49:29.762
the connection between Evans and Wenjie.

1083
00:49:29.850 --> 00:49:32.522
Now, if Wade, who knows a

1084
00:49:32.570 --> 00:49:35.466
lot so far about what's really going on.

1085
00:49:35.602 --> 00:49:36.034
Will: Yeah.

1086
00:49:36.106 --> 00:49:38.970
Sarah : And also, it's like, okay, then why haven't you been

1087
00:49:38.994 --> 00:49:40.386
killed yet? But whatever.

1088
00:49:42.146 --> 00:49:45.074
Sarah : Like. Like, for. For that to be. For him to

1089
00:49:45.090 --> 00:49:48.058
be Vera's father. Like, that raises a lot

1090
00:49:48.082 --> 00:49:51.036
more questions. Questions for me about, like, okay, so at what

1091
00:49:51.076 --> 00:49:53.852
point did you guys start this investigation and

1092
00:49:53.884 --> 00:49:56.616
learn all of this stuff and really go after Evans?

1093
00:49:57.142 --> 00:49:59.854
because you apparently missed a few

1094
00:49:59.918 --> 00:50:01.082
decades there.

1095
00:50:01.582 --> 00:50:04.322
Will: Well, yeah, and maybe.

1096
00:50:04.702 --> 00:50:07.362
Yeah, and maybe they did.

1097
00:50:07.902 --> 00:50:10.758
Well, yeah, I figured because they did lose connection with one

1098
00:50:10.790 --> 00:50:11.362
another.

1099
00:50:11.742 --> 00:50:14.634
Sarah : And, then also, why wasn't Vera on the boat

1100
00:50:15.474 --> 00:50:18.130
if, like, just hear me out. If

1101
00:50:18.322 --> 00:50:21.202
Wenj and Evans had a

1102
00:50:21.218 --> 00:50:22.054
love child?

1103
00:50:22.394 --> 00:50:23.174
Will: Yeah.

1104
00:50:23.674 --> 00:50:25.760
Sarah : Let's go. Fan fiction on, this.

1105
00:50:26.260 --> 00:50:29.068
Why weren't. Why wasn't that

1106
00:50:29.124 --> 00:50:31.708
child brought up on the boy on the

1107
00:50:31.724 --> 00:50:33.524
boat? On the oil rig?

1108
00:50:33.692 --> 00:50:34.228
Will: Yeah.

1109
00:50:34.324 --> 00:50:36.004
Will: That's where you just blew my theory up out.

1110
00:50:36.052 --> 00:50:36.492
Will: Yeah.

1111
00:50:36.596 --> 00:50:39.240
Sarah : Yeah. I mean,

1112
00:50:39.860 --> 00:50:42.040
it doesn't make. It wouldn't.

1113
00:50:42.610 --> 00:50:43.210
Will: It'll.

1114
00:50:43.290 --> 00:50:46.178
Sarah : It'll take a lot of explanation to make that work.

1115
00:50:46.234 --> 00:50:49.106
I mean, they could because they.

1116
00:50:49.178 --> 00:50:51.310
They wanted. I don't know. But

1117
00:50:52.010 --> 00:50:54.514
it is. Yeah. So

1118
00:50:54.602 --> 00:50:56.036
we'll learn more.

1119
00:50:55.986 --> 00:50:58.868
Will: Yeah, but. But clearly, regardless of whether they

1120
00:50:58.884 --> 00:51:01.876
had a child or not, I mean, she. There is a relate.

1121
00:51:01.908 --> 00:51:04.668
There was a. There was a bond in a relationship there

1122
00:51:04.724 --> 00:51:07.536
where when they. Whenever they did meet up in the eighties,

1123
00:51:07.668 --> 00:51:09.380
she confided it to him.

1124
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:12.144
Will: Here's what I heard. Yeah. He.

1125
00:51:12.232 --> 00:51:15.096
Will: And he took it and ran with it and,

1126
00:51:15.248 --> 00:51:18.240
you know, and got the judgment day boat because, you know, we later see

1127
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:21.072
them because the tower in China is no longer there.

1128
00:51:21.136 --> 00:51:23.560
The communications tower is gone, but he

1129
00:51:23.640 --> 00:51:26.152
finances the radar, you know, the

1130
00:51:26.176 --> 00:51:28.300
antenna, the judgment days

1131
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:31.420
boat is there. They

1132
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:32.144
to.

1133
00:51:32.192 --> 00:51:35.158
You know, one of the things they are, you

1134
00:51:35.174 --> 00:51:38.022
know, that we do see in this fourth episode is, you know, they

1135
00:51:38.046 --> 00:51:40.876
are recruiting the chosen ones to,

1136
00:51:41.358 --> 00:51:44.262
your religious element of this. I mean, they do kind of see

1137
00:51:44.286 --> 00:51:47.278
themselves as the chosen ones. And it's.

1138
00:51:47.374 --> 00:51:49.046
Sarah : Yeah, they're their protectors.

1139
00:51:49.238 --> 00:51:52.142
Will: And they're the protector. So, you know, the fuck the rest

1140
00:51:52.166 --> 00:51:55.062
of these people. But, you know, so all these folks on the end,

1141
00:51:55.166 --> 00:51:57.766
like, you know, with the little girl. I mean, with, you know,

1142
00:51:57.798 --> 00:52:00.670
your point about. And the fondness of telling

1143
00:52:00.710 --> 00:52:03.650
stories. I mean, she, you know, he does the same thing to the little girl,

1144
00:52:03.626 --> 00:52:06.626
you know, on the boat. And also,

1145
00:52:06.746 --> 00:52:09.682
it's just like, okay, I see where

1146
00:52:09.714 --> 00:52:12.258
these connect. I'm seeing all

1147
00:52:12.282 --> 00:52:15.178
these different pieces of the puzzle

1148
00:52:15.242 --> 00:52:18.098
are all starting to converge into one singular

1149
00:52:18.162 --> 00:52:21.126
story here, which is, you know, Wen Jay

1150
00:52:21.706 --> 00:52:24.434
is the mastermind behind all of this.

1151
00:52:24.530 --> 00:52:26.566
And in Evans is the financer,

1152
00:52:27.536 --> 00:52:29.316
who also believes in this.

1153
00:52:30.286 --> 00:52:33.254
and you're right. I mean, wait. Wade and

1154
00:52:33.270 --> 00:52:36.246
Clarence definitely miss some elements in particular,

1155
00:52:36.406 --> 00:52:39.182
as far as, you know, piecing these together

1156
00:52:39.294 --> 00:52:42.100
whenever, Whenever he is. When they

1157
00:52:42.148 --> 00:52:45.056
confront her at the end of episode four, after the arrest.

1158
00:52:46.876 --> 00:52:49.376
Sarah : So to speak, about the arrest, because,

1159
00:52:49.452 --> 00:52:52.382
Jin, essentially, at the end of

1160
00:52:52.422 --> 00:52:55.374
episode three, gets invited to advance to

1161
00:52:55.478 --> 00:52:57.918
the fourth level, which

1162
00:52:58.110 --> 00:53:00.642
is going to this

1163
00:53:00.982 --> 00:53:03.366
orientation, this gathering of

1164
00:53:03.414 --> 00:53:06.078
sorts, in which the

1165
00:53:06.110 --> 00:53:08.918
founder is there, who turns out to be Wen jie. And

1166
00:53:08.950 --> 00:53:10.872
then, of course,

1167
00:53:11.692 --> 00:53:14.548
everything kind of goes to shit,

1168
00:53:14.498 --> 00:53:17.090
as the police invade

1169
00:53:17.186 --> 00:53:19.888
and arrests happen, Tatiana

1170
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:21.372
escapes magically,

1171
00:53:23.032 --> 00:53:25.762
even though she does end up. End up, shooting

1172
00:53:25.802 --> 00:53:28.458
Jin, and Jin getting injured. Not dead,

1173
00:53:28.530 --> 00:53:31.122
injured. but

1174
00:53:33.502 --> 00:53:35.122
why do you think

1175
00:53:35.902 --> 00:53:38.734
that that happened? Because

1176
00:53:38.798 --> 00:53:41.416
when Jay has the line that I said

1177
00:53:41.464 --> 00:53:44.344
before where, like, this only happened

1178
00:53:44.368 --> 00:53:46.772
because our lord allowed it to happen.

1179
00:53:47.072 --> 00:53:49.968
So. So where do you fall? Are

1180
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:52.840
you. Are you on the side that. Yeah,

1181
00:53:52.936 --> 00:53:55.864
they. The Santi are in the know about

1182
00:53:55.928 --> 00:53:58.688
that being a possibility, or

1183
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:01.880
are they also just like, well, f. You guys. You

1184
00:54:01.896 --> 00:54:04.332
guys are a bunch of liars. We're coming.

1185
00:54:06.062 --> 00:54:08.798
Will: I think they're coming. You know, I think

1186
00:54:08.870 --> 00:54:11.522
Evans miscalculated in the sense that

1187
00:54:12.262 --> 00:54:12.958
he.

1188
00:54:13.110 --> 00:54:13.802
Will: He.

1189
00:54:14.222 --> 00:54:16.558
Will: When he told the story about the liars and the

1190
00:54:16.710 --> 00:54:19.082
Santi were like, we can't trust.

1191
00:54:20.902 --> 00:54:21.670
Will: Liars.

1192
00:54:21.766 --> 00:54:24.202
Will: We're afraid of you. Communications ended.

1193
00:54:24.702 --> 00:54:26.582
Will: He, you know, he. He was. He was.

1194
00:54:26.662 --> 00:54:29.638
Will: He was treating them like. Like he was

1195
00:54:29.670 --> 00:54:32.530
just treating another human being and didn't think that this.

1196
00:54:32.726 --> 00:54:35.722
The tantee has their own system of ethics and morals

1197
00:54:35.802 --> 00:54:38.760
and code. and like

1198
00:54:38.776 --> 00:54:41.552
you said earlier, it's like, how could we

1199
00:54:41.592 --> 00:54:44.056
expect these aliens to understand

1200
00:54:44.144 --> 00:54:46.760
our human concepts of

1201
00:54:46.776 --> 00:54:49.252
deceit and light?

1202
00:54:50.562 --> 00:54:51.942
so I think that was.

1203
00:54:53.962 --> 00:54:54.322
Will: A.

1204
00:54:54.362 --> 00:54:57.334
Will: Miscalculation on his part, whether or not,

1205
00:54:57.438 --> 00:55:00.302
you know, what. What Wenjay was saying there.

1206
00:55:00.342 --> 00:55:03.002
This is our lord's will. It just sounds like.

1207
00:55:03.342 --> 00:55:06.310
It just sounds like, you know, any kind of, you know, you're running a mill cult

1208
00:55:06.366 --> 00:55:09.158
leader who is so wrapped up in

1209
00:55:09.190 --> 00:55:12.166
their. In their rightness of their

1210
00:55:12.214 --> 00:55:15.082
worldview, that whether

1211
00:55:15.122 --> 00:55:17.822
or not that's true or not, she believes that.

1212
00:55:18.122 --> 00:55:18.626
Will: Right?

1213
00:55:18.714 --> 00:55:20.902
Sarah : Right. No, I

1214
00:55:21.802 --> 00:55:24.712
think, ah, I think both almost

1215
00:55:24.792 --> 00:55:25.852
can be true.

1216
00:55:28.472 --> 00:55:31.280
I think, in a weird way, she's not

1217
00:55:31.336 --> 00:55:34.160
wrong. I don't

1218
00:55:34.216 --> 00:55:36.776
know at what time

1219
00:55:36.944 --> 00:55:39.702
that conversation, between the Santi

1220
00:55:39.782 --> 00:55:42.734
and Evans ended and her

1221
00:55:42.798 --> 00:55:45.662
speech got interrupted. So I don't know if he

1222
00:55:45.702 --> 00:55:48.604
relayed, like, oh, our Lord. Like, we're

1223
00:55:48.620 --> 00:55:50.406
on the bad side. We got to fix this.

1224
00:55:50.436 --> 00:55:51.010
Will: This.

1225
00:55:51.178 --> 00:55:53.570
Sarah : I don't know if that was, like, when Jay

1226
00:55:53.698 --> 00:55:56.566
understood that that had happened at this point.

1227
00:55:57.062 --> 00:56:00.036
so hopefully we'll get

1228
00:56:00.076 --> 00:56:02.924
some sense about the timeline of when

1229
00:56:03.020 --> 00:56:05.986
those two events occurred, because

1230
00:56:06.026 --> 00:56:09.010
they could have occurred simultaneously, for all we know.

1231
00:56:09.178 --> 00:56:10.242
Will: I took it.

1232
00:56:10.434 --> 00:56:13.314
Will: That's the way I took it, that these things were happening real time

1233
00:56:13.370 --> 00:56:13.754
together.

1234
00:56:13.850 --> 00:56:14.526
Will: Yeah.

1235
00:56:15.086 --> 00:56:18.046
Sarah : Oddly enough, I think we did a good job about going over

1236
00:56:18.126 --> 00:56:19.414
the final point.

1237
00:56:19.510 --> 00:56:22.484
I want to touch on, because I don't.

1238
00:56:22.540 --> 00:56:25.336
I don't. I feel like he's kind of.

1239
00:56:26.476 --> 00:56:29.428
He's kind of someone who definitely has a

1240
00:56:29.452 --> 00:56:32.020
part to play, but I haven't

1241
00:56:32.108 --> 00:56:35.100
seen too much of him. But where

1242
00:56:35.148 --> 00:56:38.036
do you think Saul is in

1243
00:56:38.076 --> 00:56:40.860
all of this? Because I know he has that

1244
00:56:40.908 --> 00:56:42.776
relationship with Augie

1245
00:56:43.786 --> 00:56:46.242
and, and he's honestly the first

1246
00:56:46.354 --> 00:56:48.406
one, I think, of the Oxford

1247
00:56:48.986 --> 00:56:51.834
five we technically meet. And, yeah,

1248
00:56:51.930 --> 00:56:53.770
he's kind of there

1249
00:56:53.938 --> 00:56:56.762
understanding things, but also not.

1250
00:56:56.874 --> 00:56:59.086
And so I'm just. It's,

1251
00:56:59.742 --> 00:57:02.268
Do you think that he'll be used

1252
00:57:02.372 --> 00:57:04.736
more in later episodes or,

1253
00:57:05.192 --> 00:57:08.082
like, what we've currently are

1254
00:57:08.106 --> 00:57:09.402
got receiving of him?

1255
00:57:09.676 --> 00:57:11.376
Sarah : It'll stay about the same.

1256
00:57:12.116 --> 00:57:14.628
Will: I think we'll see more of him. I think

1257
00:57:14.652 --> 00:57:16.882
he's the wild card here.

1258
00:57:17.436 --> 00:57:20.116
because if I recall, whenever they had the

1259
00:57:20.156 --> 00:57:22.376
game, he was. He didn't really.

1260
00:57:23.836 --> 00:57:26.764
It was episode three. Did he like, was he first reticent

1261
00:57:26.780 --> 00:57:29.476
to, like, explore the tech behind the game

1262
00:57:29.596 --> 00:57:32.550
or. Like I said, I watched it earlier in the week, too, so I

1263
00:57:32.558 --> 00:57:33.696
could add that detail.

1264
00:57:33.886 --> 00:57:35.108
Will: I can't remember that detail.

1265
00:57:35.212 --> 00:57:37.996
Sarah : He, He agreed with Augie.

1266
00:57:38.156 --> 00:57:38.588
Will: Yeah.

1267
00:57:38.652 --> 00:57:40.644
Sarah : That they should never play again.

1268
00:57:40.820 --> 00:57:41.460
Will: Yes. That's.

1269
00:57:41.508 --> 00:57:44.442
Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was thinking of.

1270
00:57:44.392 --> 00:57:44.666
Will: Yeah.

1271
00:57:44.706 --> 00:57:47.698
Will: So with that being said, I mean, I think Saul

1272
00:57:47.762 --> 00:57:50.762
and Augie dancer. Question about Saul. Yes,

1273
00:57:50.794 --> 00:57:53.714
I think he's going to be more of a player down the line.

1274
00:57:53.770 --> 00:57:56.006
He's sort of. He's sort of that bridge

1275
00:57:56.346 --> 00:57:59.242
character who like, you know, he was there when

1276
00:57:59.274 --> 00:58:01.806
Auggie saw the sky blink. And,

1277
00:58:02.666 --> 00:58:05.186
and, you know, he was

1278
00:58:05.306 --> 00:58:08.282
with Will when they were going

1279
00:58:08.314 --> 00:58:11.098
through Jack's things. And, and so he's sort of that.

1280
00:58:11.162 --> 00:58:14.032
He's sort of that thread. He's sort of like us. he's the.

1281
00:58:14.064 --> 00:58:16.744
He's the guy in the story, and he's

1282
00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:19.808
watching things unfold. And like us

1283
00:58:19.832 --> 00:58:22.528
as the audience member, Auggie,

1284
00:58:22.624 --> 00:58:25.574
I don't know. I'm just not feeling Auggie.

1285
00:58:25.752 --> 00:58:28.738
Auggie and will are still two characters where I'm sort of like, as

1286
00:58:28.754 --> 00:58:31.742
far as the Oxford. Oxford four now. where I'm

1287
00:58:31.766 --> 00:58:33.970
just kind of like, I could take them or leave them.

1288
00:58:34.870 --> 00:58:36.094
Sarah : I like Augie.

1289
00:58:36.262 --> 00:58:37.014
Will: Yeah.

1290
00:58:37.182 --> 00:58:39.964
Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I like her. so

1291
00:58:40.012 --> 00:58:42.838
far, so, I technically like all

1292
00:58:42.854 --> 00:58:44.556
of Oxford five, honestly.

1293
00:58:45.610 --> 00:58:47.710
Will is the least,

1294
00:58:48.170 --> 00:58:51.142
but he's dealing with cancer, and

1295
00:58:51.166 --> 00:58:54.046
it just seems so bizarrely different from what

1296
00:58:54.078 --> 00:58:56.878
everyone else is dealing with. And then that you have Saul,

1297
00:58:57.014 --> 00:58:59.750
who's not really been touched by any of

1298
00:58:59.790 --> 00:59:02.662
this so far, except that his. His

1299
00:59:02.726 --> 00:59:05.598
friend died, so. And Vera died,

1300
00:59:05.654 --> 00:59:06.062
so.

1301
00:59:06.166 --> 00:59:09.006
Will: Yeah. Yeah.

1302
00:59:09.038 --> 00:59:11.814
Will: And also to. Also with Saul, he and he and

1303
00:59:11.822 --> 00:59:14.502
Augie have a very conflicted comp come. It's

1304
00:59:14.526 --> 00:59:17.330
complicated as far as their relationship status.

1305
00:59:17.740 --> 00:59:19.068
Sarah : Right, right.

1306
00:59:19.244 --> 00:59:19.446
Will: Yeah.

1307
00:59:19.446 --> 00:59:20.216
Will: Ah.

1308
00:59:20.268 --> 00:59:23.266
Sarah : All right, well, that leads us, brings us

1309
00:59:23.298 --> 00:59:26.256
to the end of this. We will return next week,

1310
00:59:26.466 --> 00:59:29.354
with the next two episodes. Will, why

1311
00:59:29.362 --> 00:59:31.634
don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

1312
00:59:31.802 --> 00:59:34.306
Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formally known as

1313
00:59:34.338 --> 00:59:34.876
Twitter.

1314
00:59:34.876 --> 00:59:35.016
Will: Ah.

1315
00:59:35.930 --> 00:59:39.018
Will: Willmpolk.

1316
00:59:39.194 --> 00:59:42.082
Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at sjbelmont. S j

1317
00:59:42.106 --> 00:59:44.802
b e l m m o n t please follow our crew on Twitter

1318
00:59:44.866 --> 00:59:47.426
sana nerdfront us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and

1319
00:59:47.458 --> 00:59:50.444
threadsina scene, underscore n nerd,

1320
00:59:50.532 --> 00:59:51.532
and visit our website,

1321
00:59:51.596 --> 00:59:54.468
www.sceneanerdpodcast.com.

1322
00:59:54.564 --> 00:59:57.324
But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple

1323
00:59:57.492 --> 01:00:00.020
podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast.

1324
01:00:00.060 --> 01:00:00.356
Will: Good night.

1325
01:00:00.388 --> 01:00:01.140
Sarah : Geek out. You're welcome.