Sinners Spoiler Cast - Music, Vampires, and Cultural Resonance

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>> Will: Foreign

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this is seen a Nerd Podcast presents Blerd Trek. I'm

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your host, Will Polk and thank you so much for joining

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us tonight as we're going to get into a spoiler cast of

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Sinners. That's right, we're talking about the new film that

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everyone is talking about. It is in the Zeitgeist.

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But with me tonight on this very special

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edition of Scene N Presents Blerd Trek is

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my wife, Sharlini Thank you so much for

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joining me. She was so pumped about this movie.

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She did came to you this morning. She's Will will, can we do

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a show about this? And I was like, of course.

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So I thank you for. So

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welcome back to the podcast. You joined us on our Scene N Nerd. A few years

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ago we were talking about I believe one of the Star wars movies, I think

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Rise of the Skywalker. But yeah, but, but

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welcome back.

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>> Sharlini: Yeah, happy to be here. Yeah, we saw

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Sinners last night and my head was full of

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thoughts and you know, as always, I had like all these vivid

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crazy dreams and I woke up in the morning and I am the

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morning person. Will is the later

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riser, shall we say. And I woke up in the morning and

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I had all this time to churn through

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multiple themes that I was thinking about with Sinners.

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And when Will woke up, I was like, will, Will. Okay, I want to talk about

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these themes. I want to talk about, da, da, da. So Will was like,

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okay, let's, let's do a show about it. So here we are.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah. So like I said, we

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are. This is a, this is a spoiler

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filled podcast. So I'm going to give you so.

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>> Sharlini: Many spoilers, lots of spoilers. I, I don't, I

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can't talk without spoilers.

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>> Will: So yeah, yeah, and at this point,

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yeah, this is, this is a spoiler filled podcast.

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So if you haven't seen the film,

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jump off now, go watch it and

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then come back. Listen to our, listen to

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our thoughts on, on the movie. So with

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that, your last spoiler warning, let's jump, let's jump

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right in. So again we are talking about, the

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movie Sinners This is a

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spoiler review and

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just get a little quick little basic overview. I'm

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reading from the IMDb database.

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but of course the IMDb summary is the following.

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Trying to leave their troubled lives behind, twin

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brothers return to their hometown to start

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again, only to discover that an even, even

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greater evil is waiting to welcome them back.

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So that's the IMDb database,

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summary of the film of course, the film is directed by

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Ryan Coogler. It stars Michael B. Jordan, Miles

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Canton who is his first feature

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film role.

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>> Sharlini: He's phenomenal. Phenomenal.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah. Delroy, Lindo Haley,

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Steinfeld is also in it.

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Lusaka who Many folks probably recognize her if

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you've seen Loki. seasons one and two. She's been in the MCU.

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And Jack O'Connell, and also Jamie Lawson plus many

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many other folks. this is a period piece film

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set in 191932 Clark's

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Clarksdale, Mississippi. The film is

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scored by Ludwig Goranson

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who who is a frequent collaborator with Ryan

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Coogler. Star wars fans will know

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loved it from the Mandalorian. He scores that

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show. And and the brilliant costume

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designs which we'll get into some here in our spoiler cast is by

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Ruthie Carter who is an Oscar winner and

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had to both of us had the opportunity to see her

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Oscar winning designs here locally at the North

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Carolina Museum of Art.

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>> Sharlini: Yeah, our art museum, our North Carolina Museum of

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Art is fantastic. We're long term members, we love

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it. And they had a traveling

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exhibit when Ruthie

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won her Oscar for costume

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design and Is that right Will? Is that the

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right award? Yeah. And it was

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amazing. It delved into

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all you know and

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I'm a person who crafts, I sew, I'm

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really into thinking about costumes and

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design. It was just such an incredible display of

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all her work, all the details

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that went into it, all the thoughtful planning

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and you could see that, you could see that

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thoughtfulness and detail oriented approach.

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Every single detail of the costumes in this

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movie. It just took you right back into that

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period.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah. It's amazing, amazing stuff.

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And, and of course she is a frequent collaborator with, with

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Ryan. Of course she's done both black Panther

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films, both the original and also Wakanda Forever.

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But Charlie.

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>> Sharlini: Yeah.

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>> Will: Tell me as we get started here, just give me your overall thoughts

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about the film.

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>> Sharlini: So the first thing I thought is

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it is a disservice to call this a horror movie.

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The horror part really

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complements like so many complex

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themes that this movie just so beautifully

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weaves together. Right. So it takes place as well

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said in the 1930s what's

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happening nationally. It's the era of the

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robber barons. It's the era of people getting rich from

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coal and, and railroads and steel.

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It's the era of people, it's Post World War I

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it's, Prohibition, and it's,

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You know, culturally. I think this movie

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explores those themes from the lens

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of the South. Right. The black South. And

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at the time it's still segregated. So the movie

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also gets into so many themes that I found

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so interesting about, that

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era, post Civil War, but still

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segregation, post Reconstruction, and

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finding joy, finding, beauty,

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finding love, finding tenderness, finding happiness

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in, In the midst of this

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segregated world that people live in. It also gets

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into, the legacies of

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our ancestors that we carry with us. And I thought this movie

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was so interesting because you have. Obviously the movie

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centered around, you know, the twin brothers who

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come back, but there's also kind of a

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subplot, that goes back to the Chinese

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immigrant cultural experience.

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And there's. There's just a lot

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in there to unpack, so. So

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get me back on track, Will.

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>> Will: Oh, no, no, no. That. That's. That's great.

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>> Sharlini: You know, it talks about colonialism. It talks about like.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sharlini: the lens through people view

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black society at the time as well

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as the lens, through how people view themselves. And the thing I

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loved about it, and then it's also the interplay of,

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you know, music and art and religion

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and the. The new religion. I say

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relatively new. Right. Christianity in the

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south versus these

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deeply embedded spiritual

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practices that live on in your DNA,

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even if you don't realize that,

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you know, predominantly the African American

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culture. But also, as I mentioned a little bit, the

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subplot, alludes to the Chinese immigrant and the

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Asian immigrant culture as well. So I found it super

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fascinating. I found that the vampire

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horror plot line was almost complementary,

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but not really the. The.

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The main fascination of the movie for me.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I completely agree

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with, you know, with that. And you know, I think also for me,

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as far as this overall thoughts, you. I. I had heard about this

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film, saw the trailer. It was definitely, one of

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the films that I wanted to see. 2025,

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profiled it on our main show

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and we. As far as, the top films coming out this year

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and also during, Black History Month, we had a feature

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on our main show with my host Sarah

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Belmont, where we have profiled, during Black History Month,

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Black filmmakers during Women. Women's History

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Month, very prominent stories, for Women History Month.

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But, we, you know, for 2025,

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we profiled this one in particular as far as one of

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the films that's coming out and go. And if y'all drop it in the

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chat as far as the in the, in the comments before you can

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see it, our list of other films

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for 2025. But for me, this film, it

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was, I heard it was a vampire movie. When I saw

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the trailer, it was

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a, you know, I was like, oh, this looks really, really

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good. But it did not, it did not give

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you the, the level of depth that we're going to get into

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tonight as far as some of the themes talked about.

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also the big thing that I think

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enough that really, that really struck to me about

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this film is how much music in

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and of itself was a character. You had the people,

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but music itself was a character. And, and,

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and the score and every, you know, and

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the the utilization of music and,

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and to pull together the story. This, this

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film. Yes, it is a, yes, it is a black

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film as far as having a black director, predominantly

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black cast, but also it's a four

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quadrant film because everybody can

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get something out of it.

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>> Sharlini: Yep.

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>> Will: You know, because the, the, and we'll get into the,

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the, the, the Irish character, the

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vampire, who's played by Jack O'Connell. You know,

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there's that backstory there, there is the whole

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course, you know, the storytelling elements of, you know,

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telling story through song, telling story through

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visual medium. That Ryan Coogler now is five for five. I

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mean, quite frankly, between from Fruitvale to now.

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The other thing too, and then we'll get into some specific

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points of the film is that this was an original story,

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this was not an ip because prior to this,

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Ryan, of course, you know, we know his work from the

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mcu. Of course he also did

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Creed, which is again being based off the

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IP of Rocky. But this was a

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independent story that he came up and

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he showed that he can not only

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helm a, a feature film from

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an original product, but really tell an amazing

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story as with, you know, with, and

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construct an amazing story writing and directing.

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>> Sharlini: Yeah, yeah. I do want to say though, it was, yes, it was a completely

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independent story. It was a story that was really well

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told. But I want to get back to your point about music being a character

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in this movie. There is so

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much through this movie that speaks to, and

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I said this in my kind of rambling, excited intro in the

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beginning, there's so much that speaks to

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the DNA of music that we don't even

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realize we carry with us. Right. So in the case

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of. I'll start with the Irish or the

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Highland Scottish, Irish vampires, that, you know, the

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Highland dancing, that Celtic music

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that folk, you know, the folk gathering.

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I was, honored enough to be a guest of

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my sisters at a wedding with, in the

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uk, people with Irish

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ancestry. And they had what's called a ceilidh. A

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ceilidh is a traditional Irish folk dance. So we all learned

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the steps and we all did it right. So that, that is

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that thread of, And it was

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beautiful. Everybody dances in a circle. It's joyous,

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it's celebratory and it's in the DNA

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like it's just passed down generation to generation.

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Children grew up. And you know, this is true of cultures all around

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the world. Greek culture has folk dancing.

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Pretty much any culture you go to there

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is. Dance is a sort of

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ritual and it's a way that connects

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you to your ancestors, to your beliefs, to

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your spirituality. and so I started

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with the, the Irish highland

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dancing. And I think it's almost a cliche to talk about

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how much music, African

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music and spirituality

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have influenced music through today. And

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African American music, the spirituals, the,

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the songs that people enslaved,

254
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people sang, you know, those threads

255
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come from those ancient rhythms in your

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DNA. They, they give you strength, they give you

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spirit, they give you, they, they have a power.

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So I, I think that to

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me was very evident. And if I, if I may, you

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know, there's a scene. Do you want to talk about this

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later?

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>> Will: Start. Let's start with the role of music. Because,

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yes, it is a vampire story and we can go through, you

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know.

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>> Sharlini: We don't have to necessarily.

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>> Will: I wanna. Let's. Yeah, I mean, we don't have to go chronological

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with this film. Let's talk about the music.

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>> Sharlini: Yeah, it's a story about the transformative power of

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music. Right. And there's. There's two threads here.

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There is in the main character, Sammy,

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preacher boy or one of the main characters,

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you know, he, Yeah, there he is Preach, where

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he comes from a

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family where his father is the preacher

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and he gets

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pressure and advice to, to stick to church

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music, to stick to spirituals, you know,

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not, not that sinful music, but

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the call of the ancestors

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music is, is too strong for

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him. But then I found myself thinking

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that they are interwoven. You can't

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separate one from the other. The

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reason why African American

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spiritual music is so moving is

286
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because it carries with it so

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many generations.

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>> Sharlini: So many generations of knowledge, of culture, of

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community, of power.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sharlini: So I found that, you know.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the whole thing about music, I mean,

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when the movie starts, I Mean, it starts to your point

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about the spirituality and everything. It

295
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starts with, you know,

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Sammy showing up at his father's church and the Sunday

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morning and it's the store, you know, the, you know,

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hearing the children's choir singing, you know,

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and. And. And. And so we.

300
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We get that. And then also to your point about the cultural

301
00:14:02,308 --> 00:14:05,178
aspects of it, because, The. The. With

302
00:14:05,202 --> 00:14:08,160
the Irish. You know, with. With, The Irish

303
00:14:08,208 --> 00:14:10,972
vampire. you know, there was the. The whole

304
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Irish jig that was, going on

305
00:14:14,032 --> 00:14:16,916
there. But the blending of the two.

306
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The two. The. The. The cultures, the sim. The similarities,

307
00:14:20,152 --> 00:14:22,116
I guess. Because, you know, again,

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the, You know, whenever I

309
00:14:25,138 --> 00:14:28,138
heard. Whenever. You know. Because earlier, you know, prior to

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that scene, after everybody got bam.

311
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You know, a lot of these folks got bitten by the vampires. We

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00:14:33,892 --> 00:14:36,380
had. We had the. We. We had a

313
00:14:36,468 --> 00:14:39,228
very big musical fusion scene.

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>> Sharlini: To me, that was such a

315
00:14:42,196 --> 00:14:44,252
powerful. Visually.

316
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Musically, you know,

317
00:14:47,156 --> 00:14:49,756
that was such a powerful scene, that

318
00:14:49,796 --> 00:14:51,716
juke. Juke joint scene.

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>> Sharlini: And yeah, I think maybe this is where you were going. You had the scene

320
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where they're playing the blues, but then everything

321
00:14:57,402 --> 00:15:00,168
revolves. And then you start hearing. Hearing

322
00:15:00,312 --> 00:15:03,144
the drums, you start hearing chants. You start

323
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hearing Chinese traditional music.

324
00:15:06,032 --> 00:15:08,664
You start hearing, you know, different

325
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,688
musical genres. And it even goes into the future and you

326
00:15:11,712 --> 00:15:13,956
start hearing music of today.

327
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And it's just the way that scene was

328
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woven together was. And there's no

329
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vampire. This is before the vampires. Right.

330
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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sharlini: And.

332
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>> Will: Right, right.

333
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>> Sharlini: Just that scene in itself was.

334
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Just had so many stories

335
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in it.

336
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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, that seemed to me. I, know

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some. I have. You know, I think so.

338
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So, you know, there. That. That when that

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happened, I was. And we were seeing. Because

340
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even at the beginning of the movie, we have the cultural

341
00:15:45,396 --> 00:15:48,260
Africa songs and some, you know, some cuts to

342
00:15:48,268 --> 00:15:50,788
it. And then, you know, when we get to that

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00:15:50,972 --> 00:15:53,876
big scene in the juke joint and we see

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00:15:53,916 --> 00:15:56,372
the evolution from the blues. Because the blues has

345
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just really. It is the. It

346
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is a. A cultural, you

347
00:16:02,172 --> 00:16:05,060
know, foundation for rock and roll when you

348
00:16:05,068 --> 00:16:05,556
think about it.

349
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>> Sharlini: Right. African rhythms.

350
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>> Will: And it's a bit.

351
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>> Sharlini: Not a musician, but I am a dancer, so.

352
00:16:12,508 --> 00:16:15,428
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So the blue is. You know, it's very

353
00:16:15,452 --> 00:16:17,776
well documented how, you know, blues music.

354
00:16:18,156 --> 00:16:21,106
Yeah, yeah, very. Yeah. how it has, you know, how it

355
00:16:21,146 --> 00:16:24,118
influenced rock and roll. And then, of

356
00:16:24,142 --> 00:16:27,030
course, you know, we think about, you know, Sammy, the. The blues

357
00:16:27,078 --> 00:16:29,986
physician, Robert Johnson, and talk about Sammy's. You know,

358
00:16:30,606 --> 00:16:33,062
we'll get to some of the spirituality of it too.

359
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But, Robert Johnson,

360
00:16:36,224 --> 00:16:39,088
you Know, with the sort of.

361
00:16:39,272 --> 00:16:42,128
Sort of similar to Sammy, where Sammy's dad was like, you know, you can't play this

362
00:16:42,152 --> 00:16:44,976
song, you know, this music with the devil and that kind of stuff. And

363
00:16:45,016 --> 00:16:47,918
then, you know, Robert Johnson in his real life had, you know,

364
00:16:47,942 --> 00:16:50,878
had struggled to like, like to

365
00:16:50,902 --> 00:16:53,758
be getting noticed. And then he all of a sudden popped and people were

366
00:16:53,782 --> 00:16:56,718
like thinking, oh, you know, he must have made a deal with the devil. And

367
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then, you know, so again, to enter, you know, to

368
00:16:59,622 --> 00:17:02,350
interwave. Interwoven the real life history

369
00:17:02,438 --> 00:17:05,380
into this film, of. Of some of the themes

370
00:17:05,428 --> 00:17:07,696
that, you know, Ryan was trying to like, you know,

371
00:17:08,156 --> 00:17:10,996
illustrate with this, with many. All these

372
00:17:11,036 --> 00:17:13,886
various themes in this film was really interesting. And then

373
00:17:13,926 --> 00:17:16,798
also just the. The similar stories between like,

374
00:17:16,822 --> 00:17:19,822
Irish immigrants and also African Americans as far as the.

375
00:17:19,894 --> 00:17:21,870
The use of music to. To.

376
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>> Sharlini: To build community.

377
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>> Will: Yeah, build community. And also.

378
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>> Sharlini: Yeah. Your sorrow, your roots, your struggles,

379
00:17:29,758 --> 00:17:31,374
your suffering. Yes.

380
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>> Will: Yeah. So all those things. Things are really

381
00:17:34,294 --> 00:17:37,278
playing, you know, playing there, you

382
00:17:37,302 --> 00:17:40,070
know, real interesting inner

383
00:17:40,198 --> 00:17:42,796
woven dynamic between the two cultures that are,

384
00:17:42,796 --> 00:17:45,796
that. That were really some of the subtext of this film that

385
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were, you know, What I really liked about it was that this is a beat you

386
00:17:48,758 --> 00:17:50,958
overhead. It was just organic to the story.

387
00:17:51,142 --> 00:17:53,998
>> Sharlini: Yes, but, but okay, can I, Can I digress

388
00:17:54,062 --> 00:17:56,702
a little bit and I think into another

389
00:17:56,774 --> 00:17:59,678
theme, though, but that dichotomy, that pull between kind

390
00:17:59,702 --> 00:18:02,286
of like quote unquote, good church

391
00:18:02,366 --> 00:18:04,786
music versus the sinful,

392
00:18:05,096 --> 00:18:07,744
you know, all out,

393
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,952
you're fully embodied. You're fully

394
00:18:09,984 --> 00:18:12,768
embracing sensuality. The rhythms,

395
00:18:12,832 --> 00:18:15,216
the drumming that pull

396
00:18:15,376 --> 00:18:18,352
also is. Oh, the good

397
00:18:18,424 --> 00:18:21,344
music is what the colonialists and

398
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,368
the masters want you to follow and leave

399
00:18:24,432 --> 00:18:27,344
the bad behind. Right. And that, that other

400
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,076
stuff, that's uncivilized.

401
00:18:29,576 --> 00:18:30,816
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, let's get it.

402
00:18:30,856 --> 00:18:33,774
>> Sharlini: That is another theme through this whole

403
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,850
movie is, you know, what is respectable.

404
00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:39,820
you know, and I think with. With a twin. We haven't even talked about the twins. We

405
00:18:39,828 --> 00:18:42,764
haven't talked about 20 minutes in.

406
00:18:42,820 --> 00:18:45,708
Right? But. But the

407
00:18:45,732 --> 00:18:48,540
twins present this veneer of respected,

408
00:18:48,588 --> 00:18:51,580
quote, unquote, respectability. You know, they're dressed

409
00:18:51,628 --> 00:18:54,332
well. They, you know, they carry themselves

410
00:18:54,444 --> 00:18:57,308
like gentlemen and they, they have money, they

411
00:18:57,332 --> 00:19:00,220
talk about fine Italian wine and whiskey

412
00:19:00,268 --> 00:19:03,118
and, they want to have this classy

413
00:19:03,182 --> 00:19:06,142
juke joint. Right, but it's a veneer

414
00:19:06,334 --> 00:19:09,278
for, for the. Would you say

415
00:19:09,302 --> 00:19:11,838
the rage, the anger, the. The kind

416
00:19:11,862 --> 00:19:14,776
of, But also the quest, right, the quest

417
00:19:14,816 --> 00:19:17,676
to establish yourself and celebrate.

418
00:19:18,016 --> 00:19:21,000
Celebrate your community, celebrate your success, celebrate

419
00:19:21,048 --> 00:19:23,912
your people, come back to your family

420
00:19:23,984 --> 00:19:26,002
and your roots and.

421
00:19:26,074 --> 00:19:26,562
>> Will: Yeah.

422
00:19:26,674 --> 00:19:29,602
>> Sharlini: I thought that was another theme. And then they have the whole backdrop.

423
00:19:29,634 --> 00:19:32,610
The movie has this whole backdrop of. It's also the time of

424
00:19:32,618 --> 00:19:33,606
the clan.

425
00:19:34,666 --> 00:19:37,426
>> Sharlini: Right. So yeah this is all. And it all is so

426
00:19:37,466 --> 00:19:40,194
seamlessly flows. We started by talking about the

427
00:19:40,250 --> 00:19:42,674
music but the music also carries those

428
00:19:42,730 --> 00:19:43,446
themes.

429
00:19:44,106 --> 00:19:47,074
>> Will: Yeah yeah. Let's. Let's talk about Smoking Stack, the two.

430
00:19:47,130 --> 00:19:50,034
The two brothers. And and you know of course

431
00:19:50,170 --> 00:19:52,850
there is the. The wonderful performance

432
00:19:53,018 --> 00:19:55,126
by. By Michael B. Jordan

433
00:19:55,926 --> 00:19:58,916
putting up this. This photo here of

434
00:19:59,036 --> 00:20:01,908
just as we were as we started the podcast. Just want

435
00:20:01,932 --> 00:20:04,914
to really get to Shalini's point about the.

436
00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:07,778
The art, the. The costume design but

437
00:20:07,802 --> 00:20:10,706
also how the story. But also I want to use

438
00:20:10,746 --> 00:20:13,378
this, this photo, this image of the two

439
00:20:13,482 --> 00:20:16,472
brothers to really flesh out

440
00:20:16,544 --> 00:20:19,096
some of the things about them that really does

441
00:20:19,216 --> 00:20:21,528
drive and propel the story forward.

442
00:20:21,632 --> 00:20:24,508
So you know with Smoke and

443
00:20:24,532 --> 00:20:27,132
Stack. So Smoke is the one with the blue

444
00:20:27,164 --> 00:20:30,028
cap. And it really. And. And

445
00:20:30,052 --> 00:20:32,748
it was. And this was the use of costuming to

446
00:20:32,772 --> 00:20:35,740
also tell the story because

447
00:20:35,908 --> 00:20:38,252
he is the more cool, the more

448
00:20:38,404 --> 00:20:41,388
business thinking one. He was the one

449
00:20:41,412 --> 00:20:44,178
who met with the gentleman Declans

450
00:20:44,242 --> 00:20:47,106
the At the time m. The owner of the.

451
00:20:47,146 --> 00:20:50,134
Of the just the building there

452
00:20:50,190 --> 00:20:52,970
that they. They want to turn it to. To the juke

453
00:20:53,018 --> 00:20:55,942
joint from their exploits in Chicago which is a

454
00:20:55,950 --> 00:20:58,806
whole nother story we can get into as far as

455
00:20:58,862 --> 00:21:01,670
them working with the gangsters and also to your point

456
00:21:01,694 --> 00:21:04,630
about building a community. And and the line that sticks out to me

457
00:21:04,654 --> 00:21:07,550
in the film is whenever. Whenever they do

458
00:21:07,574 --> 00:21:10,430
come back home and they. They're putting together everyone to

459
00:21:10,454 --> 00:21:12,984
build this juke joint. They were

460
00:21:13,056 --> 00:21:16,040
talk when seeing this is

461
00:21:16,064 --> 00:21:18,920
sharecroppers and you know and this, this is something for me that you know

462
00:21:19,024 --> 00:21:21,864
that resonate resonated with this film because

463
00:21:21,936 --> 00:21:24,830
my. My ass. My great great grandmother would tell

464
00:21:24,854 --> 00:21:27,630
me stories about picking cotton in the 30s and 20s and

465
00:21:27,654 --> 00:21:29,230
30s and so.

466
00:21:29,334 --> 00:21:32,238
>> Sharlini: You know, so seeing that your family actually can

467
00:21:32,278 --> 00:21:35,262
I say not to digress too much but your mom told me this.

468
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:38,246
Your mom's family actually fled South

469
00:21:38,302 --> 00:21:40,498
Carolina because

470
00:21:41,198 --> 00:21:44,008
the Per. I guess

471
00:21:44,088 --> 00:21:45,592
the person who owned the land.

472
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:46,296
>> Will: Yeah.

473
00:21:46,392 --> 00:21:49,320
>> Sharlini: Demanding you know didn't pay them. And then your was

474
00:21:49,344 --> 00:21:51,064
a great grandfather or your grand.

475
00:21:51,096 --> 00:21:51,256
>> Will: Yeah.

476
00:21:51,272 --> 00:21:54,040
>> Sharlini: Your great grandfather demanded his fair share.

477
00:21:54,224 --> 00:21:54,808
>> Will: Yeah.

478
00:21:54,888 --> 00:21:55,950
>> Sharlini: From Picking cotton.

479
00:21:56,094 --> 00:21:56,542
>> Will: Yeah.

480
00:21:56,590 --> 00:21:59,502
>> Sharlini: And they were threatened with being lynched. So they actually fled

481
00:21:59,550 --> 00:22:01,900
for their lives from South Carolina to North

482
00:22:01,924 --> 00:22:02,656
Carolina.

483
00:22:02,812 --> 00:22:03,144
>> Will: Yeah.

484
00:22:03,176 --> 00:22:05,800
>> Sharlini: But that long ago. This

485
00:22:05,824 --> 00:22:08,808
is. I was thinking about this. Right. This is not that

486
00:22:08,848 --> 00:22:09,672
long ago.

487
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,692
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. and that's the thing too, as

488
00:22:12,716 --> 00:22:15,348
I think about that line, that resonates because with

489
00:22:15,484 --> 00:22:18,356
that where they talk about the plant, the.

490
00:22:18,428 --> 00:22:20,836
The cotton fields and stuff and then.

491
00:22:20,988 --> 00:22:23,892
And the. When they. They left, they

492
00:22:23,916 --> 00:22:26,772
were part of the first wave of migration from the south to the

493
00:22:26,796 --> 00:22:29,518
north. And the brothers were.

494
00:22:29,684 --> 00:22:32,426
And they got wrapped up with the Capone gang.

495
00:22:32,538 --> 00:22:35,348
And But one of the things that

496
00:22:35,404 --> 00:22:38,276
smoked, talked to. To preacher boy,

497
00:22:38,308 --> 00:22:40,640
who's also. Sammy is.

498
00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:43,794
Who's their cousin, is that, Chicago

499
00:22:43,842 --> 00:22:46,370
was just basically plantation with

500
00:22:46,410 --> 00:22:49,218
skyscrapers and you know, so

501
00:22:49,354 --> 00:22:51,938
it was, you know, that

502
00:22:51,994 --> 00:22:54,914
struggle and the hard work and you know, even though, you know,

503
00:22:54,922 --> 00:22:57,782
you thought going to the north was going to like, get you out of

504
00:22:57,806 --> 00:23:00,390
this. This thing that you thought that

505
00:23:00,430 --> 00:23:03,318
this environment you had in the south, there were still things

506
00:23:03,374 --> 00:23:05,930
in the north that were just as, Just as daunting,

507
00:23:06,170 --> 00:23:09,106
you know, for, For. For the two brothers. But

508
00:23:09,178 --> 00:23:12,038
the cool thing about their story too is, you know,

509
00:23:12,094 --> 00:23:14,982
so of course they, you know, they, they do go to north, they do

510
00:23:15,006 --> 00:23:17,782
come, they do become part of the gang. But then they

511
00:23:17,806 --> 00:23:20,600
also, like we learned that, to.

512
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:23,580
Whenever they were setting up the juke joint, you know, they had this

513
00:23:23,620 --> 00:23:26,352
truck that was like, hidden in the. In

514
00:23:26,456 --> 00:23:29,424
on the path. And the thing about that truck, it

515
00:23:29,432 --> 00:23:32,016
was, you know, it was all, you know, you brought up the, you know, the fine

516
00:23:32,048 --> 00:23:34,912
wines and the, you know, Irish, the beer and that

517
00:23:34,936 --> 00:23:37,872
kind of stuff. Well, they stole all that stuff from the, from the

518
00:23:37,896 --> 00:23:40,752
gangsters and then in the mob. And the mob were like, you

519
00:23:40,776 --> 00:23:43,696
know, they were like. The mob war was, you know, they were pointing

520
00:23:43,728 --> 00:23:46,560
fingers at each other. But at least these two brothers who

521
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,472
actually were the ones who stole it, which I thought was just, you know, really,

522
00:23:49,576 --> 00:23:52,538
you know, gets through there. Yeah, gets to their.

523
00:23:52,594 --> 00:23:55,402
Gets to them. Their, Their story. And they're smart and their

524
00:23:55,426 --> 00:23:58,282
savviness. But Stack is the, you

525
00:23:58,306 --> 00:24:01,210
know, so, you know, so Smoke is the,

526
00:24:01,330 --> 00:24:04,282
the rational one. You know, got the blue hat. Stack is the one with the

527
00:24:04,306 --> 00:24:06,874
red hat. And the, The.

528
00:24:06,962 --> 00:24:09,898
The guy with the gift of Gap, he could like, really talk

529
00:24:09,954 --> 00:24:12,778
his way through a situation. He was very

530
00:24:12,834 --> 00:24:15,770
smooth. And so, you know, so those two

531
00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:18,602
brothers. And I think the thing that. One of the things you talked about this

532
00:24:18,626 --> 00:24:21,430
morning, I'll hand it off to you, is that the relationships

533
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:24,502
that these brothers had with themselves, but also with

534
00:24:24,526 --> 00:24:27,330
the friends and families in the community. So I'll let you,

535
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,152
>> Sharlini: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, one

536
00:24:30,176 --> 00:24:33,112
of the things I've really, have come to appreciate

537
00:24:33,176 --> 00:24:36,056
and you know, you see this in Black Panther. You see this in Wakanda

538
00:24:36,088 --> 00:24:38,984
forever. What I've come to appreciate in the way Ryan Coogler

539
00:24:39,032 --> 00:24:41,592
depicts relationships is the

540
00:24:41,616 --> 00:24:44,376
vulnerability. It's the vulnerability

541
00:24:44,568 --> 00:24:46,620
and the tenderness

542
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,160
that I think. You know, I don't want to speak for you,

543
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,848
but I think you don't often see black men

544
00:24:52,904 --> 00:24:55,730
depicted, in that way of, you know. Again,

545
00:24:55,770 --> 00:24:58,722
this is a spoiler review, right? So there is a. There

546
00:24:58,746 --> 00:25:01,442
is a loss of a baby. There's a loss of a child.

547
00:25:01,626 --> 00:25:04,450
That grief, that loss. There is a

548
00:25:04,490 --> 00:25:07,202
tenderness of coming back to women

549
00:25:07,386 --> 00:25:10,274
that you love and. And vulnerably

550
00:25:10,402 --> 00:25:12,670
saying, I love you, I need you.

551
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:16,030
And there are strong women who are

552
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:18,526
independent, who are not waiting on their man,

553
00:25:18,598 --> 00:25:21,598
but they, you know, they're supportive, and they

554
00:25:21,654 --> 00:25:24,606
provide that love. And to see that expressed

555
00:25:24,638 --> 00:25:27,246
in a vulnerable way where it's not

556
00:25:27,318 --> 00:25:30,270
macho, it's not. It's realistic

557
00:25:30,430 --> 00:25:33,342
and is really how so

558
00:25:33,366 --> 00:25:36,078
many people have tender, open,

559
00:25:36,214 --> 00:25:38,878
honest relationships that you don't always see

560
00:25:38,934 --> 00:25:41,872
depicted. So, again, we're very far from talking about

561
00:25:41,896 --> 00:25:44,384
the horror movie theme here, but I really

562
00:25:44,472 --> 00:25:47,424
appreciated that even though there

563
00:25:47,432 --> 00:25:50,352
were just a few scenes here and there, that was really the underpinnings of

564
00:25:50,376 --> 00:25:53,360
the movie. Right. They were like these hardened guys who

565
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,872
cheated the mob, but at the end of the

566
00:25:55,896 --> 00:25:58,832
day, they were vulnerable. They had a lot

567
00:25:58,856 --> 00:26:01,600
of love to give. They had a lot of tenderness.

568
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,380
They. They had joy. They had,

569
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:07,252
You know, they had great affection for their cousin. They

570
00:26:07,276 --> 00:26:10,228
mentored him. They. They what? They looked

571
00:26:10,244 --> 00:26:13,172
out for him. They, you know, sacrificed a

572
00:26:13,196 --> 00:26:15,460
lot for him. And

573
00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:18,388
the, you know, the. The coming

574
00:26:18,444 --> 00:26:20,436
back to the women, too, you know, that

575
00:26:20,508 --> 00:26:23,452
complexity of, The one brother want, you

576
00:26:23,476 --> 00:26:26,076
know, chose the path of, well, I'm just gonna

577
00:26:26,188 --> 00:26:29,004
save you, and the other brother

578
00:26:29,052 --> 00:26:31,858
chose the path of, you know, so I'm gonna

579
00:26:31,874 --> 00:26:34,802
save you and have nothing to do with you, and I'm gonna abandon you

580
00:26:34,826 --> 00:26:37,682
because it's better for you because it's too dangerous to be associated with

581
00:26:37,706 --> 00:26:40,370
me. Right. That. But then coming back to that

582
00:26:40,410 --> 00:26:43,058
vulnerability to say, no, no, I love you and I need

583
00:26:43,114 --> 00:26:45,810
you, I thought was very powerful and very

584
00:26:45,850 --> 00:26:47,350
powerfully depicted.

585
00:26:48,410 --> 00:26:51,250
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that. That definitely was. I mean,

586
00:26:51,290 --> 00:26:54,242
that was, the. The relationships that they

587
00:26:54,266 --> 00:26:56,760
did have. And even. And even, Even Sammy.

588
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,350
>> Sharlini: Even Sammy. Right, that.

589
00:26:58,390 --> 00:27:01,128
>> Will: Yeah. With, With the relationship that he had

590
00:27:01,184 --> 00:27:04,020
with, with Pearl. you know, but think about

591
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:05,460
the point.

592
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,216
>> Sharlini: He's younger, so for him, it's first

593
00:27:08,288 --> 00:27:08,952
love.

594
00:27:09,136 --> 00:27:09,544
>> Will: Yeah.

595
00:27:09,592 --> 00:27:12,408
>> Sharlini: But I think it also goes, you know, as we're talking

596
00:27:12,424 --> 00:27:15,140
about relationships, you could see it's not

597
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,344
spoken out loud, but you can see the inner

598
00:27:18,392 --> 00:27:20,888
struggle for the relationship he has with his

599
00:27:20,944 --> 00:27:23,732
father. M. And coming back to the

600
00:27:23,756 --> 00:27:26,708
music, right? The music is calling him. His

601
00:27:26,764 --> 00:27:29,508
gift is calling him in a different direction.

602
00:27:29,684 --> 00:27:32,436
His gift of powerful, powerful music,

603
00:27:32,508 --> 00:27:34,884
powerful song. But you can see that

604
00:27:34,972 --> 00:27:37,780
conflict of where he wants to do the right thing

605
00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:40,740
as the preacher's son and he wants to honor that

606
00:27:40,780 --> 00:27:43,620
relationship with his father. And

607
00:27:43,660 --> 00:27:46,292
that is also depicted in such a

608
00:27:46,316 --> 00:27:49,162
subtle way. It's not know. It's not in your face.

609
00:27:49,186 --> 00:27:51,642
And I think that's the thing that struck me

610
00:27:51,666 --> 00:27:54,586
about the romantic relationships

611
00:27:54,618 --> 00:27:55,430
as well.

612
00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:59,690
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, that was definitely, definitely just.

613
00:27:59,730 --> 00:28:01,658
>> Sharlini: Very matter of fact. This is, you know.

614
00:28:01,794 --> 00:28:04,688
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But But you're right to that

615
00:28:04,712 --> 00:28:07,664
point too. As far as the two brothers and just they're in a relationship, their,

616
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,156
their friendships and stuff with people in the town.

617
00:28:10,856 --> 00:28:13,142
They you know, and something you also

618
00:28:13,214 --> 00:28:16,006
raised with the other

619
00:28:16,386 --> 00:28:19,274
group, the Chinese for example who were there and just

620
00:28:19,330 --> 00:28:22,218
the inner interplay with them. And we'll, we'll put a pin in that

621
00:28:22,242 --> 00:28:25,210
because I do want to talk about race and passing and some of

622
00:28:25,218 --> 00:28:27,646
the other things here here in a minute. But

623
00:28:27,992 --> 00:28:30,636
But the other character that was very

624
00:28:30,686 --> 00:28:33,526
Prominent and I thought sold every scene that he was

625
00:28:33,566 --> 00:28:36,466
in was ah, Delta Slim who was a

626
00:28:36,466 --> 00:28:39,144
ah. Delro Lindo's character and the

627
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,912
friendship that you know the relationship

628
00:28:41,944 --> 00:28:44,728
he had with. With the two brothers and

629
00:28:44,832 --> 00:28:47,576
you know whenever they, Whenever they first

630
00:28:47,696 --> 00:28:50,420
go to the train

631
00:28:50,468 --> 00:28:53,348
station there in. In town as they're trying

632
00:28:53,372 --> 00:28:56,296
to pull together the people for their, for their juke joint.

633
00:28:56,386 --> 00:28:59,186
And, and of course you know they you know, of course we do

634
00:28:59,226 --> 00:29:02,162
see the. How powerful Sammy

635
00:29:02,194 --> 00:29:05,158
is as far as his musical acumen. But we first, when we

636
00:29:05,182 --> 00:29:07,526
first introduced the Delta Slim as he's sitting there playing

637
00:29:07,566 --> 00:29:10,518
harmonica and, and. And

638
00:29:10,542 --> 00:29:13,526
then, and then of course he and Stack have

639
00:29:13,566 --> 00:29:16,470
their, their. Their discussions about you

640
00:29:16,478 --> 00:29:19,014
know, as far as the negotiation. And that was another cool thing

641
00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:22,022
too was just the. As far as the interpersonal relationship

642
00:29:22,054 --> 00:29:24,746
among people in the town. And that's why I thought about the Chinese

643
00:29:26,746 --> 00:29:29,634
family as well who run the shop whenever they were setting

644
00:29:29,650 --> 00:29:31,948
up the. The juke joint, the

645
00:29:31,972 --> 00:29:34,908
negotiations of people and interaction with

646
00:29:34,932 --> 00:29:37,868
the. The commerce that was going you know there's.

647
00:29:37,932 --> 00:29:40,748
That was going forth during this time

648
00:29:40,772 --> 00:29:43,678
period because They you know, the bar, the barter, the

649
00:29:43,702 --> 00:29:46,506
back and forth negotiating price

650
00:29:46,806 --> 00:29:49,646
barter just you know, you know that the economy

651
00:29:49,766 --> 00:29:52,638
of. Of of the. Of the tile time and

652
00:29:52,662 --> 00:29:55,582
town I think was another little small

653
00:29:55,654 --> 00:29:58,400
detail. But those, you know, but to me as someone,

654
00:29:58,488 --> 00:30:01,258
when I, like when I, When I get, those are the types of things that helped me get

655
00:30:01,282 --> 00:30:03,706
immersed into the film because it gave it a

656
00:30:03,746 --> 00:30:04,378
groundedness.

657
00:30:04,442 --> 00:30:07,434
>> Sharlini: Yeah. And that's why I say, I think, you know, this is not even a horror

658
00:30:07,450 --> 00:30:10,410
movie. The vampire plot was almost secondary to the whole

659
00:30:10,458 --> 00:30:11,066
movie.

660
00:30:11,226 --> 00:30:11,850
>> Will: Yeah.

661
00:30:11,978 --> 00:30:12,234
>> Sharlini: Yeah.

662
00:30:12,250 --> 00:30:14,842
>> Will: Because I want to do the thing. I was like, I heard the first half's about

663
00:30:14,914 --> 00:30:17,626
setup and then the second half's about the vampire piece. But even.

664
00:30:17,666 --> 00:30:20,474
>> Sharlini: But, but no, I don't know. It's very

665
00:30:20,530 --> 00:30:23,380
seamless. Yeah. Should we talk about, you know

666
00:30:23,548 --> 00:30:26,212
what. Should we talk. Should we. Should we talk about the passing,

667
00:30:26,324 --> 00:30:27,892
the. The reason? Yeah.

668
00:30:27,924 --> 00:30:30,916
>> Will: Yeah. I think this is a good place given that we're. We're talking about relationships and

669
00:30:30,956 --> 00:30:33,898
stuff, because, yeah, Haley Steinfeld's character, she, you

670
00:30:33,906 --> 00:30:36,624
know, she. We learned that, she did,

671
00:30:36,878 --> 00:30:39,590
have a, black father, or I guess

672
00:30:39,622 --> 00:30:40,150
half.

673
00:30:40,302 --> 00:30:42,166
>> Sharlini: Her daddy was half white or something.

674
00:30:42,270 --> 00:30:45,238
>> Will: Half white, yeah. Yeah. And of course, you know, during that time period, it

675
00:30:45,246 --> 00:30:47,978
was still, you know, again, we're. We're talking about Jim Crow

676
00:30:48,026 --> 00:30:50,986
South. So, you know, miscegenation laws are still in a place

677
00:30:51,010 --> 00:30:53,738
and the one drop rule is still very,

678
00:30:53,826 --> 00:30:56,800
very prominent. And to your point about, the relationships

679
00:30:56,832 --> 00:30:59,760
that, you know, Stack was like, look, you know, it's

680
00:30:59,792 --> 00:31:02,592
not safe for you to be here with

681
00:31:02,648 --> 00:31:05,536
me. But clearly they, you know, they had a prior relationship, but

682
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,416
then they left. She waited for him, but, you know,

683
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,392
she did move on and she. She did marry a white, you know, married

684
00:31:11,408 --> 00:31:14,186
into a white family and stuff. And there was. There was a lot of

685
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,834
background with that too, as far as like,

686
00:31:17,324 --> 00:31:19,924
you know, the. The brothers

687
00:31:20,084 --> 00:31:23,056
not, you know, paying their respects, but, you know, due to

688
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,920
the death of her mother, you know, that was a little tension

689
00:31:25,952 --> 00:31:27,328
point. Yeah.

690
00:31:27,376 --> 00:31:30,144
>> Sharlini: To me, you know, it struck me.

691
00:31:30,264 --> 00:31:32,704
So that whole relationship and that

692
00:31:32,744 --> 00:31:35,604
whole storyline, of

693
00:31:36,064 --> 00:31:38,696
her, you know, Mary, I think was her name. Mary

694
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,700
Passed, struck, me. There was actually

695
00:31:41,852 --> 00:31:44,356
a pretty prominent character, so Mr.

696
00:31:44,420 --> 00:31:46,468
Carnegie, the Mr.

697
00:31:46,516 --> 00:31:48,824
Carnegie's librarian.

698
00:31:49,404 --> 00:31:52,162
She was a, A woman named Belle da

699
00:31:52,178 --> 00:31:54,898
Costa Green. And she

700
00:31:54,986 --> 00:31:57,458
was a rare woman in the time

701
00:31:57,546 --> 00:32:00,354
of male antique dealers. She went

702
00:32:00,394 --> 00:32:03,042
to. She went to Europe and

703
00:32:03,098 --> 00:32:05,794
she negotiated to procure

704
00:32:05,874 --> 00:32:08,370
the best artworks for Mr.

705
00:32:08,402 --> 00:32:11,300
Carnegie. And she was,

706
00:32:11,372 --> 00:32:14,084
you know, the best of them all. And

707
00:32:14,204 --> 00:32:16,644
after her passing, it

708
00:32:16,684 --> 00:32:19,540
was. It was, ah, revealed

709
00:32:19,572 --> 00:32:22,484
or it was found that she was actually a black

710
00:32:22,524 --> 00:32:25,348
woman who passed as white her entire life

711
00:32:25,436 --> 00:32:28,292
and rose to prominence. She was Running. She was given

712
00:32:28,348 --> 00:32:31,248
responsibility to run the library and to go acquire pieces

713
00:32:31,296 --> 00:32:33,204
of art with huge budget.

714
00:32:34,044 --> 00:32:36,820
So watching that, you know, watching

715
00:32:37,012 --> 00:32:39,556
the movie yesterday, watching Sinners and how the,

716
00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:42,340
the topic of race and light skinned people

717
00:32:42,412 --> 00:32:44,584
passing as white were handled

718
00:32:45,084 --> 00:32:47,940
reminded me of that book that I had read. It's

719
00:32:47,972 --> 00:32:49,224
called the Librarian.

720
00:32:50,524 --> 00:32:53,124
Fascinating. And yeah, fascinating

721
00:32:53,284 --> 00:32:55,908
both into, into the world of art and

722
00:32:56,076 --> 00:32:59,076
antiques and that same time period of you know, the

723
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:02,056
1920s and 30s as well as

724
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,824
race relations and passing as

725
00:33:04,864 --> 00:33:05,928
white. So.

726
00:33:06,096 --> 00:33:09,032
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean you know that. But that was a very,

727
00:33:09,168 --> 00:33:12,064
again it was just a very important point I think

728
00:33:12,104 --> 00:33:15,084
that again not be, you know, that they, that they.

729
00:33:16,504 --> 00:33:19,484
That was very important to the story. Not only

730
00:33:19,724 --> 00:33:22,546
to you know, with Stack and

731
00:33:22,570 --> 00:33:25,554
Mary's relationship, but also as we do

732
00:33:25,594 --> 00:33:28,418
get into that whenever they do open up Club Juke,

733
00:33:28,466 --> 00:33:31,202
which is the name of the juke joint. and,

734
00:33:31,258 --> 00:33:32,974
and, and whenever we do

735
00:33:34,024 --> 00:33:36,874
M. You know, we do see the, the first

736
00:33:36,914 --> 00:33:39,676
round of the vampire show up. you know that

737
00:33:39,700 --> 00:33:42,562
was that was part

738
00:33:42,618 --> 00:33:45,602
of, you know. Or is she going to invite all these, you know, the,

739
00:33:45,658 --> 00:33:48,514
the you know, she was, you know, it was given her

740
00:33:48,554 --> 00:33:51,426
passing and then we had these three white people show up

741
00:33:51,450 --> 00:33:54,418
at the, at the place. It was sort of like. Yes.

742
00:33:54,466 --> 00:33:56,533
Where they go. It was know they were like

743
00:33:56,913 --> 00:33:57,693
wait.

744
00:33:58,433 --> 00:34:01,145
>> Sharlini: Can, can I correct, can I go back and correct myself a little

745
00:34:01,169 --> 00:34:03,641
bit? I got my robber barons mixed up.

746
00:34:03,777 --> 00:34:06,393
Yeah, so I got my robber barons mixed up. I

747
00:34:06,433 --> 00:34:09,081
apologize. So Belda Costa Green was

748
00:34:09,137 --> 00:34:12,105
The librarian for Mr. J.P.

749
00:34:12,169 --> 00:34:12,825
morgan.

750
00:34:12,969 --> 00:34:13,753
>> Will: Oh, okay.

751
00:34:13,833 --> 00:34:16,793
>> Sharlini: Yeah, for Mr. M. J.P. morgan. And the book is called

752
00:34:16,833 --> 00:34:19,705
the Personal Librarian by Marie Benedict

753
00:34:19,769 --> 00:34:22,758
and Victoria Christopher Murray. So it

754
00:34:22,766 --> 00:34:24,326
was Mr. Morgan. Yes.

755
00:34:24,390 --> 00:34:25,190
>> Will: Okay. Okay.

756
00:34:25,222 --> 00:34:25,846
>> Sharlini: Sorry about that.

757
00:34:25,870 --> 00:34:28,768
>> Will: Yeah, no, no, no worries, no worries. but yeah, I

758
00:34:28,776 --> 00:34:31,154
mean to that point though, about

759
00:34:31,614 --> 00:34:34,310
you know, barons and passing and

760
00:34:34,382 --> 00:34:37,302
also just thinking about that, that

761
00:34:37,358 --> 00:34:40,006
time period when you still had the

762
00:34:40,030 --> 00:34:42,790
JP Morgans and the, you know, we know

763
00:34:42,862 --> 00:34:45,798
we're not too far from that. The Carnegie's. You

764
00:34:45,806 --> 00:34:48,742
know, we're not, we're not too far from the Gilded Age. And you know that's

765
00:34:48,758 --> 00:34:51,746
also very, you know took it to another piece of literature about that time, the

766
00:34:51,770 --> 00:34:54,442
Great Gatsby. let's

767
00:34:54,458 --> 00:34:57,402
talk. And also just the larger point of the world

768
00:34:57,458 --> 00:35:00,114
too because the two

769
00:35:00,154 --> 00:35:03,138
brothers didn't mention this before. They were also war veterans from the

770
00:35:03,146 --> 00:35:04,114
First World War.

771
00:35:04,234 --> 00:35:04,674
>> Sharlini: Yes.

772
00:35:04,754 --> 00:35:07,714
>> Will: And another thing that you, you talked about and, and something

773
00:35:07,754 --> 00:35:10,354
I wanted to bring up too as we,

774
00:35:10,474 --> 00:35:12,626
we you know, think about the, the

775
00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:15,516
vampires, as we. It was. It's because we were really getting into

776
00:35:15,540 --> 00:35:18,304
the vampire portion of the film. is this

777
00:35:18,344 --> 00:35:20,524
colonialism and,

778
00:35:20,984 --> 00:35:23,776
And. And, you know, with the

779
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,624
Irish and the British, you know, there's that history of,

780
00:35:26,744 --> 00:35:29,584
you know, the British going, you know, of course

781
00:35:29,624 --> 00:35:32,192
there's the colonialism and stuff that happened with Africa,

782
00:35:32,328 --> 00:35:35,216
but also how Britain and Ireland have had that

783
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:38,144
very contentious relationship and a lot of Irish had to, you know, move

784
00:35:38,184 --> 00:35:40,916
out from, you know, because of that, it came to the

785
00:35:40,940 --> 00:35:43,930
States. So. Yeah. So

786
00:35:44,082 --> 00:35:46,714
pick up on that. I want you to pick up all your thoughts on those.

787
00:35:46,754 --> 00:35:49,290
>> Sharlini: It's interesting how, you know, the vision that the

788
00:35:49,362 --> 00:35:52,214
vampires offered was

789
00:35:52,754 --> 00:35:55,514
equality and everyone being treated the

790
00:35:55,554 --> 00:35:57,658
same and, you know, they don't

791
00:35:57,706 --> 00:36:00,294
segregate and, you know,

792
00:36:01,314 --> 00:36:03,786
and that. That's what they were trying to use to

793
00:36:03,810 --> 00:36:06,794
lure people. They said, why don't you come be with

794
00:36:06,834 --> 00:36:09,762
us? And we, you know, we're all one

795
00:36:09,818 --> 00:36:12,754
people coming back to that whole idea of

796
00:36:12,794 --> 00:36:15,714
community and belonging. But the

797
00:36:15,754 --> 00:36:18,752
theme. And I feel, like I'm circling back to

798
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,828
the music, the dancing, the rituals,

799
00:36:22,168 --> 00:36:25,120
the themes of colonial, the. The religion, you know,

800
00:36:25,144 --> 00:36:27,920
the pressure to be that. That. The pressure

801
00:36:27,984 --> 00:36:30,880
to. To, you know, play the good music, to

802
00:36:30,904 --> 00:36:33,408
be a good Kristian, you know, to adopt the

803
00:36:33,448 --> 00:36:35,508
religion of the colonizers.

804
00:36:36,518 --> 00:36:39,310
is a very powerful theme

805
00:36:39,454 --> 00:36:42,398
that runs through the entire movie and

806
00:36:42,438 --> 00:36:44,750
is really brilliantly woven in.

807
00:36:44,934 --> 00:36:47,338
And you know, the. The

808
00:36:48,038 --> 00:36:50,808
fact, that the old ways, there are still

809
00:36:50,848 --> 00:36:53,816
people who remember and carry on the old

810
00:36:53,872 --> 00:36:56,428
ways. The. The girlfriend of,

811
00:36:56,938 --> 00:36:59,730
Is it Dax? Girlfriend.

812
00:36:59,794 --> 00:37:02,048
Will. The one who

813
00:37:02,508 --> 00:37:04,484
figures out about the vampires.

814
00:37:04,596 --> 00:37:06,196
>> Will: Oh, smokes. Smoke's girlfriend.

815
00:37:06,292 --> 00:37:09,140
>> Sharlini: Girlfriend. Smokes. Girlfriend that figures out about the, you

816
00:37:09,164 --> 00:37:11,716
know, the. The old ways. And she figures out what's really

817
00:37:11,772 --> 00:37:14,596
happening and she makes a magical

818
00:37:14,692 --> 00:37:17,636
amulet that she believes and Stack believes keeps

819
00:37:17,652 --> 00:37:20,108
themselves. Keeps him safe. M.

820
00:37:20,428 --> 00:37:23,044
Right. They allude to that quite a bit.

821
00:37:23,196 --> 00:37:26,100
And I, you

822
00:37:26,124 --> 00:37:28,880
know, I know that there's

823
00:37:28,944 --> 00:37:31,696
still superstitions, there's still

824
00:37:31,752 --> 00:37:34,088
that knowledge that,

825
00:37:34,038 --> 00:37:36,730
continues. Right. Even through the efforts of

826
00:37:36,754 --> 00:37:39,610
colonialism to. To stamp it out. And I

827
00:37:39,634 --> 00:37:42,602
thought that was also very beautifully and brilliantly depicted

828
00:37:42,650 --> 00:37:43,838
throughout the movie.

829
00:37:44,178 --> 00:37:46,878
>> Will: Totally, totally. Yeah, that. Yeah, that the,

830
00:37:47,198 --> 00:37:49,730
That was definitely, brought

831
00:37:49,874 --> 00:37:52,738
woven throughout the movie. And another thing about colonialism too,

832
00:37:52,778 --> 00:37:55,602
and something we were talking about music and the collectiveness and

833
00:37:55,610 --> 00:37:58,230
stuff and thinking about too, with some of the

834
00:37:58,254 --> 00:38:00,876
discourse lately, about this film

835
00:38:00,932 --> 00:38:03,660
itself. Take it out of the film, but listen to the real world and

836
00:38:03,684 --> 00:38:06,172
about Ryan Coogler being able

837
00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:09,148
to, you know, get the ownership rights of. To

838
00:38:09,188 --> 00:38:09,724
this film.

839
00:38:09,796 --> 00:38:10,140
>> Sharlini: Yeah.

840
00:38:10,204 --> 00:38:12,892
>> Will: After 25 years and,

841
00:38:13,060 --> 00:38:15,580
and thinking about, again, historic context of the

842
00:38:15,604 --> 00:38:18,220
blues and how cultural

843
00:38:18,284 --> 00:38:20,648
appropriation happens and,

844
00:38:21,028 --> 00:38:23,990
and, you know, to your point about, you know,

845
00:38:24,014 --> 00:38:26,662
in the religious context, it's like the good music versus

846
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:29,446
the, you know, the, the bad music.

847
00:38:29,582 --> 00:38:32,358
>> Sharlini: You know, claiming the space. Right. Claiming the

848
00:38:32,398 --> 00:38:35,126
joyful space to celebrate, to play

849
00:38:35,182 --> 00:38:37,718
music, to be loud, to be happy,

850
00:38:37,798 --> 00:38:40,454
to have relationships,

851
00:38:40,646 --> 00:38:43,610
to all those, were not things that

852
00:38:43,634 --> 00:38:44,826
were allowed.

853
00:38:45,002 --> 00:38:45,578
>> Will: Yeah.

854
00:38:45,658 --> 00:38:48,498
>> Sharlini: Under colonialism and slavery. So just

855
00:38:48,538 --> 00:38:51,332
the fact of, coming back to the south and opening a

856
00:38:51,356 --> 00:38:54,180
juke joint where people can come, you can dance, you can

857
00:38:54,220 --> 00:38:57,060
stamp your feet, you can sing, you can make

858
00:38:57,100 --> 00:38:58,516
love, you could, you know.

859
00:38:58,588 --> 00:39:01,556
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Raise hell on. On Saturday

860
00:39:01,628 --> 00:39:04,612
and be saintly on Sunday. That

861
00:39:04,636 --> 00:39:07,492
was, yeah, that was the theme of the juke joy. But also it

862
00:39:07,516 --> 00:39:08,960
was a safe place because.

863
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:13,332
Yeah, because, you know, think again. You worked hard in the

864
00:39:13,356 --> 00:39:16,276
field, you, you know, and everything, and then

865
00:39:16,348 --> 00:39:19,228
you had this safe place to go to, to just

866
00:39:19,284 --> 00:39:22,140
be free and, and all. And then. But,

867
00:39:22,180 --> 00:39:25,100
you know, but, you know, I think about the vampires when you think about

868
00:39:25,140 --> 00:39:27,740
vampirism, and this is what I think was a fresh take on

869
00:39:27,780 --> 00:39:30,620
vampirism. I thought this film had. That

870
00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:33,580
takes it from just your typical vampire film to

871
00:39:33,620 --> 00:39:36,572
another is, you know, we always think, you know,

872
00:39:36,596 --> 00:39:38,680
with vampires, you know,

873
00:39:39,060 --> 00:39:41,560
you're, you know, the bite and,

874
00:39:42,260 --> 00:39:45,228
you know, we saw the typical things as far as, you know, you can't

875
00:39:45,244 --> 00:39:48,204
kill them and they come, they come back and that kind of stuff.

876
00:39:48,252 --> 00:39:51,188
>> Sharlini: They're scared of garlic and. Yeah, yeah.

877
00:39:51,284 --> 00:39:53,956
>> Will: All the traditional beats were there. But I think the,

878
00:39:54,028 --> 00:39:56,420
the, the. The underlying

879
00:39:56,580 --> 00:39:59,092
cultural appropriation of that. The, the

880
00:39:59,116 --> 00:40:01,812
belonging. I wanted to be one. You know, I

881
00:40:01,836 --> 00:40:04,644
think on the one hand it seems very innocuous,

882
00:40:04,692 --> 00:40:07,492
but on the other hand it's just like they're just going to

883
00:40:07,516 --> 00:40:10,164
just take everything about you and just suck it all out.

884
00:40:10,172 --> 00:40:12,160
>> Sharlini: Of you and assimilate. Right.

885
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:13,172
>> Will: Yeah.

886
00:40:13,236 --> 00:40:13,604
>> Sharlini: Yes.

887
00:40:13,652 --> 00:40:16,548
>> Will: And I think. And I think that's what made the Vulture, that's

888
00:40:16,564 --> 00:40:19,430
what made this film more Take it to the next

889
00:40:19,470 --> 00:40:22,326
level than just a basic vampire. Vampire

890
00:40:22,358 --> 00:40:23,126
movie.

891
00:40:23,318 --> 00:40:26,102
>> Sharlini: Yes. So shall we. Should we

892
00:40:26,126 --> 00:40:29,050
close by? We've been going on for quite a bit longer.

893
00:40:30,910 --> 00:40:33,766
>> Will: We plan to talk 40 minutes here we are 40. But I think I'm enjoying

894
00:40:33,798 --> 00:40:34,998
it. So. Yeah.

895
00:40:35,094 --> 00:40:37,862
>> Sharlini: Should we, you know, I don't know if you had other things on your

896
00:40:37,886 --> 00:40:40,790
list, but should we close by? Coming back to the. Just

897
00:40:40,830 --> 00:40:43,718
the visual richness of this film. We started out talking about

898
00:40:43,774 --> 00:40:46,762
costumes. Costumes. Yeah. We referenced

899
00:40:46,826 --> 00:40:49,546
a couple of times the music. We've

900
00:40:49,578 --> 00:40:52,218
referenced the Juke joint. And the

901
00:40:52,274 --> 00:40:54,522
way, you know, the costuming.

902
00:40:54,586 --> 00:40:54,906
>> Will: The.

903
00:40:54,978 --> 00:40:57,802
>> Sharlini: The way. Yes, there you go. You kind of put it up

904
00:40:57,826 --> 00:41:00,410
before I said it, but when I was

905
00:41:00,450 --> 00:41:03,258
watching that scene and listening to the music

906
00:41:03,394 --> 00:41:06,218
of in the juke joint, where they had the live

907
00:41:06,274 --> 00:41:08,270
music playing and everyone's dancing,

908
00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:11,780
it immediately reminded me of that

909
00:41:11,820 --> 00:41:14,498
painting, Will, that you had just up. Can you bring it back? It's Sugar

910
00:41:14,514 --> 00:41:17,266
Shack by Ernie Barnes, by Ernest Barnes, who's

911
00:41:17,298 --> 00:41:19,442
actually a native of Durham, North

912
00:41:19,466 --> 00:41:22,386
Carolina. So the interesting thing, Sugar

913
00:41:22,418 --> 00:41:24,882
Shack was painted a little later in the 70s,

914
00:41:25,026 --> 00:41:28,018
but the composition, the way this scene is

915
00:41:28,074 --> 00:41:31,010
composed, just even the backdrop, the

916
00:41:31,050 --> 00:41:33,740
wooden floors, you know, the people,

917
00:41:34,050 --> 00:41:36,938
the costuming, everything about

918
00:41:36,994 --> 00:41:39,834
that juke joint scene just reminded me

919
00:41:39,922 --> 00:41:42,730
so much, particularly of this painting. And I just

920
00:41:42,770 --> 00:41:45,770
wonder if there was a intended or a

921
00:41:45,810 --> 00:41:48,682
subconscious homage to Ernie Barnes

922
00:41:48,746 --> 00:41:51,610
and his work depicting joy

923
00:41:51,690 --> 00:41:54,570
of music and dance and celebration, which,

924
00:41:54,610 --> 00:41:57,610
again, is the theme that we've, I think, talked about quite a lot

925
00:41:57,730 --> 00:42:00,692
in that movie. And just. I just. In

926
00:42:00,716 --> 00:42:03,348
that moment, I just felt so immersed and.

927
00:42:03,484 --> 00:42:04,200
>> Will: Yeah.

928
00:42:04,620 --> 00:42:07,252
>> Sharlini: That it just really struck me. Right. The. The

929
00:42:07,276 --> 00:42:09,940
importance of continuing to depict joy and

930
00:42:09,980 --> 00:42:12,532
celebration and relationships and

931
00:42:12,556 --> 00:42:13,716
authenticity.

932
00:42:13,908 --> 00:42:16,450
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, and

933
00:42:17,470 --> 00:42:20,342
I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, while I was

934
00:42:20,366 --> 00:42:23,046
watching the film and I know after we finished last night, we

935
00:42:23,118 --> 00:42:25,920
didn't think of it at the time, but know, there are those.

936
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,960
Those. Those images and. And things that are

937
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,894
just that, Resonate. That resonate with you. I mean,

938
00:42:31,982 --> 00:42:34,870
many people probably are familiar with, you know, who

939
00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:37,580
have seen the. The. The. The, painting Sugar Shack.

940
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:40,040
it was on the show Good Times.

941
00:42:41,070 --> 00:42:42,054
and it was.

942
00:42:42,142 --> 00:42:44,454
>> Sharlini: It was a Marvin Gay album cover too.

943
00:42:44,622 --> 00:42:47,526
>> Will: It was so, you know, so there have been,

944
00:42:47,598 --> 00:42:50,438
you know, things, you know, but, other places where people

945
00:42:50,494 --> 00:42:53,414
may have seen it didn't even realize it, but, you know. But I do

946
00:42:53,502 --> 00:42:55,810
completely agree with you that I think that

947
00:42:56,190 --> 00:42:58,726
whole. That the. The. The scene

948
00:42:58,838 --> 00:43:01,670
that then the shot that Ryan and his

949
00:43:01,710 --> 00:43:04,130
director, you know, was thinking of

950
00:43:04,510 --> 00:43:07,334
whether subconsciously or consciously was a

951
00:43:07,342 --> 00:43:10,180
Sugar Shack. because it just really. That it was just

952
00:43:10,220 --> 00:43:12,788
visually was there. I could just probably hear him like, telling his director

953
00:43:12,844 --> 00:43:15,646
photography. He's like, remember, have you ever seen pulling up Sugar

954
00:43:15,678 --> 00:43:18,350
Shack on their phone or whatever? Yeah. Or when they were doing

955
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:21,374
storyboards, when they were planning this film. I. I can imagine that was part

956
00:43:21,382 --> 00:43:24,316
of their discussions whenever they were like, how are we going to. How we're gonna. How are

957
00:43:24,318 --> 00:43:27,086
we going to set up this film or set up this scene? And that was.

958
00:43:27,158 --> 00:43:29,950
That that is totally, totally the. Totally the

959
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:32,718
inspiration, for it. Clearly

960
00:43:32,814 --> 00:43:35,742
clear as day. but yeah, the visual point, like

961
00:43:35,766 --> 00:43:38,384
I said, you know, we did talk about the costume and stuff. you

962
00:43:38,392 --> 00:43:41,322
know, spot on period. You know,

963
00:43:41,426 --> 00:43:44,166
costuming. there was also I know

964
00:43:44,302 --> 00:43:46,886
one other thing too, that two things I wanted to

965
00:43:46,942 --> 00:43:49,924
hit before we drop, is the Chocotaw Indians

966
00:43:49,956 --> 00:43:52,612
and their, their warnings to

967
00:43:52,780 --> 00:43:55,604
the clan people. Because again,

968
00:43:55,756 --> 00:43:58,198
you know, whenever Jack, Jack,

969
00:43:58,474 --> 00:44:01,468
O'Connell, his character, but his character's name was Remick. you know,

970
00:44:01,508 --> 00:44:04,000
he, you know, thinking back to the

971
00:44:04,024 --> 00:44:06,960
appropriation discussion that we had a few minutes ago, and I think, you

972
00:44:06,984 --> 00:44:09,856
know, and I think the context there

973
00:44:09,912 --> 00:44:12,608
was. They were trying to like, you know, take

974
00:44:12,648 --> 00:44:15,504
over the. The Indian, the Native American tribe.

975
00:44:15,536 --> 00:44:18,256
And they only had them in this, in the film for just a very

976
00:44:18,312 --> 00:44:21,040
short part at a time. But they, you know, but they

977
00:44:21,064 --> 00:44:24,048
clearly forced him out because whenever he first shows up at

978
00:44:24,088 --> 00:44:26,674
the. At the two clan members

979
00:44:26,746 --> 00:44:27,314
house.

980
00:44:27,466 --> 00:44:27,758
>> Sharlini: Yeah.

981
00:44:27,758 --> 00:44:30,736
>> Will: you know, he was all scarred, beaten and stuff because

982
00:44:30,792 --> 00:44:33,388
they had forced, you know, they figured it out and got him out of

983
00:44:33,396 --> 00:44:36,124
there. And so I bring that up

984
00:44:36,164 --> 00:44:39,036
because, you know, they, they, you

985
00:44:39,060 --> 00:44:41,704
know, whenever they showed up

986
00:44:42,084 --> 00:44:44,492
at the door, they tried to warn those

987
00:44:44,548 --> 00:44:45,144
people.

988
00:44:45,604 --> 00:44:48,044
>> Sharlini: Well, I'm gonna say two things. I'm m gonna say

989
00:44:48,084 --> 00:44:50,412
colonialism again and I'm gonna say

990
00:44:50,468 --> 00:44:53,446
dismissal of traditional

991
00:44:53,590 --> 00:44:55,990
indigenous knowledge, which is another

992
00:44:56,062 --> 00:44:58,998
theme. You know, at the end of the day it was that traditional

993
00:44:59,046 --> 00:45:01,782
indigenous knowledge and the community that

994
00:45:01,838 --> 00:45:04,748
saved them. and with the Choctaw Indians

995
00:45:04,812 --> 00:45:07,788
and you know, showing up to the Klansmen, the, the

996
00:45:07,812 --> 00:45:10,716
white people's house, they were greeted with

997
00:45:10,756 --> 00:45:13,468
suspicion and they were turned. Well, they

998
00:45:13,492 --> 00:45:16,332
turned away because it was starting to get dark. Right. So. Yeah,

999
00:45:16,364 --> 00:45:19,340
but again it, it car. Again, it's very subtle. It's a

1000
00:45:19,348 --> 00:45:20,500
very short scene.

1001
00:45:20,668 --> 00:45:21,188
>> Will: Yep.

1002
00:45:21,252 --> 00:45:24,244
>> Sharlini: But it echoes those themes and which is again

1003
00:45:24,300 --> 00:45:26,980
why this movie is so brilliant and so multi

1004
00:45:27,028 --> 00:45:27,764
layered.

1005
00:45:27,940 --> 00:45:30,932
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. So there, there was that piece and

1006
00:45:31,004 --> 00:45:33,620
then m. The you know, the second

1007
00:45:33,708 --> 00:45:36,372
piece. Related. I'm

1008
00:45:36,404 --> 00:45:38,336
blanking on it now, but I'll come back to me.

1009
00:45:39,396 --> 00:45:42,284
Oh yeah, it was just the, the costuming of.

1010
00:45:42,340 --> 00:45:45,176
You know, we talked about that. but also the relationship between

1011
00:45:45,216 --> 00:45:48,196
the brothers. Because it really ties to the end of the film.

1012
00:45:50,256 --> 00:45:53,128
because at the end of the day even. Well,

1013
00:45:53,152 --> 00:45:56,040
yeah, there was relationship with the brothers. And also one of the

1014
00:45:56,048 --> 00:45:58,776
things you asked me last night, we were talking about, you know,

1015
00:45:58,896 --> 00:46:01,790
about the why. How did the, you know,

1016
00:46:01,798 --> 00:46:04,718
what was keeping the vampires out. And the

1017
00:46:04,742 --> 00:46:07,678
only way they were finally able to get in. And this is another cool thing that

1018
00:46:07,702 --> 00:46:10,286
I thought was really great about how they took things

1019
00:46:10,326 --> 00:46:13,138
about from the different path from

1020
00:46:13,242 --> 00:46:15,858
some vampire films is they had to be

1021
00:46:15,882 --> 00:46:18,882
invited in. They could not. You know, every time

1022
00:46:18,954 --> 00:46:20,610
they were. They came to the.

1023
00:46:20,778 --> 00:46:23,538
>> Sharlini: That's right. That's a traditional vampire

1024
00:46:23,602 --> 00:46:24,978
lore. You have to.

1025
00:46:25,082 --> 00:46:26,226
>> Will: Have to invite them in.

1026
00:46:26,266 --> 00:46:29,074
>> Sharlini: You have to ask them in. They cannot enter without

1027
00:46:29,130 --> 00:46:32,050
being invited. Yes. Yeah, but yeah, like the

1028
00:46:32,058 --> 00:46:33,536
original Dracula, movie. Yes.

1029
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,576
>> Will: Yeah. And the thing that they were trying to work around that

1030
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,166
was whenever, June I think it was. I think her name

1031
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:41,758
was Grace Troy, I believe was the, the mom

1032
00:46:41,846 --> 00:46:42,526
of.

1033
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:44,094
>> Sharlini: Oh yes, the husband.

1034
00:46:44,254 --> 00:46:47,246
>> Will: The husband got. Was trying to go to town to

1035
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:49,950
save their daughter. Got bitten. And

1036
00:46:50,022 --> 00:46:52,894
then, you know, because of her, you know,

1037
00:46:52,934 --> 00:46:55,774
they were using her to like and to.

1038
00:46:55,814 --> 00:46:58,270
To basically break down the defenses and they were able to

1039
00:46:58,342 --> 00:47:01,128
briefly to get into the. Into the, into the.

1040
00:47:01,168 --> 00:47:02,428
Into the club Duke.

1041
00:47:03,688 --> 00:47:06,378
but yeah, so that, you know, there was that piece and then

1042
00:47:06,498 --> 00:47:09,354
the last two points I'll make and then we can, we can close

1043
00:47:09,506 --> 00:47:12,410
is the relationship with the brothers and how it just sort of

1044
00:47:12,418 --> 00:47:14,726
sets things up for the end because

1045
00:47:15,186 --> 00:47:17,776
the You know,

1046
00:47:17,896 --> 00:47:20,736
Stack was bitten because he

1047
00:47:20,776 --> 00:47:23,664
did have the relationship. You know, they were, you know, the. Earlier

1048
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:26,228
in the film Mary, left

1049
00:47:26,412 --> 00:47:29,016
and she encountered

1050
00:47:29,756 --> 00:47:32,564
Remic, and the other two vampires. And of course they,

1051
00:47:32,620 --> 00:47:35,476
they were able to. They bit her and

1052
00:47:35,516 --> 00:47:38,388
she she. She comes back to the, to the, to the place

1053
00:47:38,428 --> 00:47:41,268
and then she in turn bites

1054
00:47:41,428 --> 00:47:43,140
Stack because of their, their relationship.

1055
00:47:43,204 --> 00:47:45,284
>> Sharlini: And, and she's invited in by.

1056
00:47:45,356 --> 00:47:47,460
>> Will: And she's invited in because. Yeah.

1057
00:47:47,604 --> 00:47:50,116
>> Sharlini: Yes, because she. Yeah.

1058
00:47:50,212 --> 00:47:52,724
>> Will: Bamboo tie that back to what we were just. Yeah,

1059
00:47:52,836 --> 00:47:55,834
yeah, to tie it back to what we were just talking about. The vampires

1060
00:47:55,866 --> 00:47:58,778
being invited in. So that's how they, that's how they were able to

1061
00:47:58,818 --> 00:48:01,438
get into the house, into the club Juke.

1062
00:48:01,758 --> 00:48:04,614
but the, you know, the, the relationship

1063
00:48:04,646 --> 00:48:07,318
between the brothers, at the end of the day they're so protective of one

1064
00:48:07,358 --> 00:48:09,798
another and, and you

1065
00:48:09,838 --> 00:48:12,658
know, we learn that

1066
00:48:14,718 --> 00:48:17,484
Smoke could not kill Stack,

1067
00:48:17,646 --> 00:48:20,508
you know, after after they figure out.

1068
00:48:21,288 --> 00:48:23,024
>> Sharlini: Major, major spoiler. Yeah.

1069
00:48:23,056 --> 00:48:25,868
>> Will: Well, if you're with us by now you've watched the film, so

1070
00:48:27,608 --> 00:48:30,548
I can't help it if you like we warned you at the beginning

1071
00:48:31,288 --> 00:48:31,856
right there.

1072
00:48:31,912 --> 00:48:33,268
>> Sharlini: Yes. Yeah.

1073
00:48:33,538 --> 00:48:35,198
>> Will: kept it up for the whole time.

1074
00:48:36,678 --> 00:48:39,676
but, but, yeah, but you know, but of course

1075
00:48:39,716 --> 00:48:42,592
we do. You know, you know, we begin to film

1076
00:48:42,724 --> 00:48:45,720
with Sammy. We end the film with Sammy you

1077
00:48:45,728 --> 00:48:48,728
know, we get the beginning there with Sammy at the beginning, you know, showing up

1078
00:48:48,752 --> 00:48:51,278
to church. Sammy, figures out, you know,

1079
00:48:51,302 --> 00:48:54,196
Sammy kills Remic. you know,

1080
00:48:54,236 --> 00:48:57,204
he's, you know, the very instrument that his

1081
00:48:57,260 --> 00:49:00,148
father told him not to use, you

1082
00:49:00,172 --> 00:49:03,076
know, to be that the devil's instrument ended up being the thing

1083
00:49:03,116 --> 00:49:06,036
that saves him. The, the music and the, and

1084
00:49:06,076 --> 00:49:08,696
the, the silver banjo.

1085
00:49:09,466 --> 00:49:11,886
and, and, and then,

1086
00:49:12,346 --> 00:49:15,330
you know, Smoke takes out, you

1087
00:49:15,338 --> 00:49:18,338
know, the clan does show up. Because that was sort of the, you know,

1088
00:49:18,362 --> 00:49:21,188
that was one of the things that we learned the

1089
00:49:21,212 --> 00:49:24,068
motivations about, you know, the truth about the, the

1090
00:49:24,092 --> 00:49:26,496
building that the club Juke was, was on.

1091
00:49:27,036 --> 00:49:29,856
And then fast forward to,

1092
00:49:30,286 --> 00:49:33,166
you know, Smoke does take

1093
00:49:33,206 --> 00:49:35,758
out the clan, Smoke passes away, he goes to the

1094
00:49:35,782 --> 00:49:38,386
afterlife because again, he was

1095
00:49:38,506 --> 00:49:40,766
free to be with,

1096
00:49:42,666 --> 00:49:44,334
What, was her name? I can't remember her name. But,

1097
00:49:45,844 --> 00:49:47,304
not Mary, the other.

1098
00:49:48,164 --> 00:49:50,748
>> Sharlini: Yes, yes. I can't remember any.

1099
00:49:50,916 --> 00:49:52,904
>> Will: Yeah, the, the, the, the

1100
00:49:53,524 --> 00:49:56,312
princess. Yeah. and,

1101
00:49:56,448 --> 00:49:59,448
but we get. So as we all know, we get to

1102
00:49:59,456 --> 00:50:02,456
the mid credit and we, we talked about this last night and I've had some

1103
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,264
time to think about it. I want to hear, hear what your thoughts are now.

1104
00:50:05,424 --> 00:50:08,294
And we'll close. you know, Stack and Mary show

1105
00:50:08,334 --> 00:50:11,302
up at Prlene's and you know, and Sammy, you know,

1106
00:50:11,358 --> 00:50:14,358
Sammy grows up and he creates, you know, he

1107
00:50:14,446 --> 00:50:17,446
goes on to have a, he leaves town. He has

1108
00:50:17,470 --> 00:50:20,454
a wonderful career. Just a little cameo there by a

1109
00:50:20,494 --> 00:50:23,034
buddy guy who plays the older Sammy.

1110
00:50:23,694 --> 00:50:26,522
And at ah, ah, Pearline's and,

1111
00:50:26,578 --> 00:50:29,578
and Stack and Mary

1112
00:50:29,626 --> 00:50:31,528
show up, so.

1113
00:50:31,616 --> 00:50:34,184
>> Sharlini: And 90s

1114
00:50:34,264 --> 00:50:37,000
outfits, which is also just amazing period

1115
00:50:37,072 --> 00:50:39,992
costuming. I was like, oh, I, we actually

1116
00:50:40,048 --> 00:50:41,284
wore those things.

1117
00:50:41,584 --> 00:50:44,312
>> Will: Yeah. 1992. So it's like what, 70

1118
00:50:44,448 --> 00:50:45,128
years?

1119
00:50:45,296 --> 00:50:46,056
>> Sharlini: Yep.

1120
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,964
>> Will: Yeah, later, I guess. Yeah.

1121
00:50:50,224 --> 00:50:53,016
60 years later. Yeah, 60 years later. Yeah. Yeah, my

1122
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,124
bad. Yeah, we're like, yeah, my bad.

1123
00:50:56,434 --> 00:50:59,356
but, at first I was like, you

1124
00:50:59,380 --> 00:51:02,332
know, it felt like it was the return

1125
00:51:02,388 --> 00:51:04,944
of the King. Multiple endings.

1126
00:51:05,764 --> 00:51:08,748
But you know, the conversation that they had

1127
00:51:08,836 --> 00:51:11,594
there. I'm glad they, Now that I. Eventually the

1128
00:51:11,634 --> 00:51:14,058
ending works for me because at the end of the day,

1129
00:51:14,226 --> 00:51:16,014
Stack has the proposition.

1130
00:51:16,594 --> 00:51:19,066
You could have everlasting life and

1131
00:51:19,090 --> 00:51:21,908
immortality if you just become a

1132
00:51:21,916 --> 00:51:22,664
vampire.

1133
00:51:23,024 --> 00:51:23,444
>> Sharlini: Uh-huh.

1134
00:51:23,724 --> 00:51:26,644
>> Will: And Sammy says no because, you know, at that point, you know,

1135
00:51:26,684 --> 00:51:29,396
because, you know, Stack sniffs over, you know, he knows death is

1136
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:32,260
imminent for, for, for Sammy because he smells

1137
00:51:32,292 --> 00:51:33,236
death around him.

1138
00:51:33,340 --> 00:51:33,668
>> Sharlini: Yeah.

1139
00:51:33,716 --> 00:51:36,580
>> Will: And he offers him that. And I just thought,

1140
00:51:36,652 --> 00:51:39,476
to me, you know, the more I thought about it, that was like the

1141
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:42,192
perfect ending to this, film where Sammy's like,

1142
00:51:42,328 --> 00:51:45,136
I've lived a full life. I'm. I'm content

1143
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:47,762
with what I have. So.

1144
00:51:47,818 --> 00:51:50,494
No, I don't want, I don't, I don't want your offer.

1145
00:51:51,884 --> 00:51:53,844
>> Will: That, to me, that's. That, to me, that mid credit.

1146
00:51:53,892 --> 00:51:56,516
>> Sharlini: Yeah. Ah, I have to think about this one a little bit more because

1147
00:51:56,588 --> 00:51:59,200
I, I thought they should have just ended it

1148
00:52:00,140 --> 00:52:02,680
where it ended without the epilogue

1149
00:52:03,020 --> 00:52:05,508
and maybe had, you know, the epo, the

1150
00:52:05,564 --> 00:52:08,452
epilogue be Sammy, you

1151
00:52:08,476 --> 00:52:11,364
know, at 75. But yeah, I don't know, I'll have

1152
00:52:11,372 --> 00:52:14,296
to think about it. That's a fresh. I hadn't thought about that perspective.

1153
00:52:14,388 --> 00:52:16,640
>> Will: Yeah, Yeah, I just, I just thought about this.

1154
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,768
>> Sharlini: He has a choice and he rejects it.

1155
00:52:18,904 --> 00:52:21,874
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Because he's like, I've had a full life. I, I, achieved

1156
00:52:21,922 --> 00:52:24,852
everything I wanted. And, and, and that was a

1157
00:52:24,876 --> 00:52:25,940
very, you know.

1158
00:52:25,980 --> 00:52:28,468
>> Sharlini: All right, this is way past my bedtime.

1159
00:52:28,564 --> 00:52:31,412
I've. I know we talk about this all night, but it

1160
00:52:31,436 --> 00:52:33,348
is way past my bedtime.

1161
00:52:33,524 --> 00:52:36,386
>> Will: Yes, it is. But, thank you so much

1162
00:52:36,458 --> 00:52:38,978
for, for joining us. So if you watch

1163
00:52:39,034 --> 00:52:41,784
Sinners, let us know what you thought about

1164
00:52:41,872 --> 00:52:44,780
our discussion and about the film in the chat.

1165
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,848
We would love to hear your perspectives on this

1166
00:52:47,904 --> 00:52:50,536
film. Definitely one that I definitely want to go see again.

1167
00:52:50,608 --> 00:52:53,470
But, before we go, Charlie, let people know where they can find

1168
00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:54,090
you.

1169
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:57,420
>> Sharlini: At charlene._nc on

1170
00:52:57,420 --> 00:53:00,302
m Instagram. S H A R L I N

1171
00:53:00,326 --> 00:53:03,010
I Underscore NC

1172
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:06,130
thanks for letting me join you all. Thanks for listening.

1173
00:53:06,510 --> 00:53:09,354
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And you can always find me on all the

1174
00:53:09,378 --> 00:53:12,138
socials at Will and Polk. Visit our website

1175
00:53:12,210 --> 00:53:12,442
at

1176
00:53:12,482 --> 00:53:15,514
www.cinardpodcast.com.

1177
00:53:15,698 --> 00:53:18,414
find us on, Twitter at Seeing a

1178
00:53:18,438 --> 00:53:21,294
Nerd. Find us on Blue sky at Scene N, Nerd Instagram and

1179
00:53:21,318 --> 00:53:23,726
threads at Scene. Underscore End Underscore

1180
00:53:23,774 --> 00:53:26,692
Nerds. Be sure to, follow us,

1181
00:53:26,672 --> 00:53:28,814
all the social platforms, but also most

1182
00:53:28,838 --> 00:53:31,566
importantly, rate review, comment

1183
00:53:31,654 --> 00:53:34,558
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, subscribe

1184
00:53:34,590 --> 00:53:37,382
to our YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcast

1185
00:53:37,722 --> 00:53:40,502
with that. Good night. K out. You're welcome.

1186
00:53:40,842 --> 00:53:41,242
>> Sharlini: Good night.